View Full Version : Alternative cooking in plastic bags
Bruce Hudson
06-07-2008, 19:15
I somehow clicked the wrong forum and posted this earlier under health and safety so I'm reposting here in case people have some more ideas (and of course I'm much appreciative of the good responses I already got over on health and safety.)
Last summer was this 65 year old teacher's first serious back-packing experience-- altogether Hot Springs to Atkins in three different outings. This summer the intent is Springer to Hot Springs in one outing. I'm changing my cooking from Jet Boil to a Trangia alcohol stove system.
Previously cooking (such as it was) was freezer bag style minus the interesting recipes-- mostly Ramen and Lipton with hot water pored over and into the insulated pouch for five minutes or so.
The most attractive feature of that style is keeping the mess contained to the freezer bag-- no washing pans etc. On spring break when I ran into a lot of through hikers I saw people apparently simmering dishes in plastic bags, i.e. the bag floating in simmering water. I should have asked more questions. Food cooked longer allowing for greater variety (or at least the Knorr and Lipton stuff to actually be cooked) but still containing the mess within the bag.
Any experience or recommendations along those lines.
Bruce
Blue Jay
06-08-2008, 11:00
The most attractive feature of that style is keeping the mess contained to the freezer bag-- no washing pans etc. Any experience or recommendations along those lines.
Bruce
Actually the most attractive feature is the new and interesting flavors the the random plastic chemicals give to your food. I'm sure the plastic industry appreciates the highly controlled scientific studies you are conducting on yourself, merely because you don't want a "mess". It is your health, so experiment away, yummmm.
Fiddleback
06-08-2008, 11:22
Actually the most attractive feature is the new and interesting flavors the the random plastic chemicals give to your food. I'm sure the plastic industry appreciates the highly controlled scientific studies you are conducting on yourself, merely because you don't want a "mess". It is your health, so experiment away, yummmm.
I'm always looking for citations and references about 'chemical' issues with FBC cooking. Got any?
As for the the original topic...I've used the simmering method to heat already cooked food but have no experience actually cooking food that way.
FB
The Raven
06-08-2008, 16:47
I highly recommend using the bags that come with vacuum sealers - aka Food Saver - as they are meant to be used in boiling water. IMHO, the greater risk is from the bag rupturing, not consuming "chemicals". I have successfully used them to cook fresh scrambled eggs. Boil water, beat eggs in bag, place in simmering water, continue to stir while eggs cook.
The only downside is they are more expensive than your regular-grade bags. Maybe use them just for items you know you will want to simmer if $$ is a concern.
Creek Dancer
06-08-2008, 16:59
Ever since Nalgene recalled it's BPA plastic bottles, I will no longer use freezer bags for cooking. Now, I realize that freezer bags do not contain BPA, but many people thought Nalgene bottles were safe too until studies showed they were linked to cancer. Until I read reliable informaton that freezer bags are safe for freezer bag cooking, I won't be using them. I will use another bag designed and tested for cooking food.
Fiddleback
06-08-2008, 19:47
Ever since Nalgene recalled it's BPA plastic bottles, I will no longer use freezer bags for cooking. Now, I realize that freezer bags do not contain BPA, but many people thought Nalgene bottles were safe too until studies showed they were linked to cancer. Until I read reliable informaton that freezer bags are safe for freezer bag cooking, I won't be using them. I will use another bag designed and tested for cooking food.
Very sensible. Note though, that some, if not all, baggies are said to be food safe up to 185°. Coincidentally, this is almost spot-on the max temp of water I've poured in kitchen tests of alky stoves. I've tested the stove(s) I use to determine the minimum amount of alky needed to heat the water sufficiently for FBC cooking. A rolling boil (212°, or less at elevation) is not needed to reconstitute dehydrated food consequently the small amount of alky I use yields water temps of 180-190° in kitchen testing. On the trail the water pour temp colud be even lower. In any case, the water temp drops off rapidly in actual FBC cooking. The bottom line is that (with my system at least) the temps barely approach the tested food safe temps and do not stay anywhere near those temps as the dehydrated food reconstitutes.
FB
Blue Jay
06-08-2008, 21:11
I'm always looking for citations and references about 'chemical' issues with FBC cooking. Got any?
No, as I've said before feel free to be a lab rat and experiment on your own body to prevent the horrific "MESS" (oh the horror). "Scientific" citations and references are usually funded by groups such as drug companies, "health care" providers, or corporations who have a financial interest. Therefore they are mostly BS from the start. Even the manufacturers of the "freezer" bags do not claim this is safe, that should tell you something. Again I know how important avoiding the deadly "MESS" is to the future of all mankind, so please, go ahead.
No, as I've said before feel free to be a lab rat and experiment on your own body to prevent the horrific "MESS" (oh the horror). "Scientific" citations and references are usually funded by groups such as drug companies, "health care" providers, or corporations who have a financial interest. Therefore they are mostly BS from the start. Even the manufacturers of the "freezer" bags do not claim this is safe, that should tell you something. Again I know how important avoiding the deadly "MESS" is to the future of all mankind, so please, go ahead.
OK. Will do. Thanks for the "go ahead" Blue Jay! :sun
P.S. I have been drinking coffee out of a plastic tumbler for decades.
Do you know at what t-t-temp the n-n-nasties leech from the p-p-plastic?
Is is is p-p-lastic less n-n-nasty than from a s-s-styrofoam cup? :-?
drastic_quench
06-08-2008, 21:40
I like to carry some bread or bagels to sop up what's left in the pot. Tasty.
I like to carry some bread or bagels to sop up what's left in the pot. Tasty.
What kind of pot? Coated, uncoated, Aluminum, Titanium, SS? :-?
Appalachian Tater
06-08-2008, 21:52
Pouring boiling water into plastic bags can't be good for you. If you can smell something there are loose particles floating around and you can smell plastic. I don't see what the big deal is about washing a pot out, sometimes I even wait until the morning if it is inconvenient. Plastic is made of fossil fuels, making and burning them is bad for the environment. All of the freezer bag recipes will work in a pot, get a cozy for your pot.
I know these opinions are in conflict with the vocal majority but so be it!
drastic_quench
06-08-2008, 22:46
What kind of pot? Coated, uncoated, Aluminum, Titanium, SS? :-?
Stainless Steel. I'd like to buy a titanium.
So use turkey bags, or oven roasting bags or Food vac bags. Those are rated for temps much higher (oven bags are around 450*). Or just eat out of your pot.
Just for the love of whatever don't bring bad soap to clean everything. Get the good stuff.
Two Speed
06-09-2008, 05:42
Bruce, just in case you can't tell you've inadvertently stepped off into a controversial subject. Personally I don't do freezer bag cooking because I think carrying around a bag with food in it is more of a mess than cleaning up a pot, to say nothing of the fossil fuels consumed to make the bag.
That said, Sarbar has quite a few good recipes on her site, however you choose to cook them.
I've had no problems using a small Cool Whip container to rehydrate food. Light weight has a lid and safe (I think).
Creek Dancer
06-09-2008, 06:43
OK. Will do. Thanks for the "go ahead" Blue Jay! :sun
P.S. I have been drinking coffee out of a plastic tumbler for decades.
Do you know at what t-t-temp the n-n-nasties leech from the p-p-plastic?
Is is is p-p-lastic less n-n-nasty than from a s-s-styrofoam cup? :-?
Well, many groups do consider styrene to be a human carcinogen.
envirodiver
06-09-2008, 10:20
Ever since Nalgene recalled it's BPA plastic bottles, I will no longer use freezer bags for cooking. Now, I realize that freezer bags do not contain BPA, but many people thought Nalgene bottles were safe too until studies showed they were linked to cancer. Until I read reliable informaton that freezer bags are safe for freezer bag cooking, I won't be using them. I will use another bag designed and tested for cooking food.
I didn't see the studies linking BPA to cancer. I may have missed some, but what I saw was inconclusive, in that they didn't know precisly what levels of BPA leached out of the bottles or what levels of BPA may cause interferences with hormones (not cancer causing). The reports were not so much science as speculation. As I said I may have missed some. If you have a link to another I'd like to see it.
BTW those using aluminum cookware, didn't they say years ago that Al caused Alzheimers?
Old Grouse
06-09-2008, 10:43
As Olympia Dukakis's character said in Moonstruck, "I just want you to know, no matter what you do, you're gonna die, just like everybody else."
mkmangold
06-09-2008, 12:03
Pouring boiling water into plastic bags can't be good for you. If you can smell something there are loose particles floating around and you can smell plastic. I don't see what the big deal is about washing a pot out, sometimes I even wait until the morning if it is inconvenient. Plastic is made of fossil fuels, making and burning them is bad for the environment. All of the freezer bag recipes will work in a pot, get a cozy for your pot.
I know these opinions are in conflict with the vocal majority but so be it!
What about water that isn't boiling in plastic? The water in my new hydration bladder still tastes "plasticky" and that's been through several changes. What if we use air temp water that's been inside a plastic container all day?
It’s amazing that with no real info to say that plastic bags pose any kind of danger people will get on here and say they are dangerous and the companies are covering up test results.
Give advice based on facts and deductive reasoning, not the fact that you think corporate America is evil and out to kill you with poison.
drastic_quench
06-09-2008, 12:23
It’s amazing that with no real info to say that plastic bags pose any kind of danger people will get on here and say they are dangerous and the companies are covering up test results.
Give advice based on facts and deductive reasoning, not the fact that you think corporate America is evil and out to kill you with poison.
That wasn't everybody, though. My personal preference is to avoid any cooking method that might incidentally put some not-meant-for-consumption plastics or chemicals in my body. That's why I don't use Heineken pots - the plastic coating/lining on the inside of the can. Maybe their effects would be nothing, but I choose not to chance it - especially over any longterm hiking. Longterm exposure sounds potentially dangerous. But hey, I don't use Teflon coated cookware, either.
All i got to at one time it was bad to fry in a cast iron pan.
Creek Dancer
06-09-2008, 13:20
That wasn't everybody, though. My personal preference is to avoid any cooking method that might incidentally put some not-meant-for-consumption plastics or chemicals in my body. That's why I don't use Heineken pots - the plastic coating/lining on the inside of the can. Maybe their effects would be nothing, but I choose not to chance it - especially over any longterm hiking. Longterm exposure sounds potentially dangerous. But hey, I don't use Teflon coated cookware, either.
Exactly my thoughts as well. Why intentionally put chemicals into your body over and over whether they have been proven safe by some group or not, or declared safe by someone on whiteblaze. I do not believe that synthetic chemicals belong in our bodies. I don't use Teflon either, and I have switched to glass storage containers at home. We can't get away from plastics all together, but we can minimize how much of the chemicals from plastic or other chemicals that we may ingest by making other choices.
Appalachian Tater
06-09-2008, 13:51
What about water that isn't boiling in plastic? The water in my new hydration bladder still tastes "plasticky" and that's been through several changes. What if we use air temp water that's been inside a plastic container all day?
I don't know. I would be uncomfortable with any plastic that imparts a taste or that you can smell, my bladder doesn't have this issue. Personally I don't like those cheap disposable plastic cups and when I work in an office I drink everything out of a ceramic mug, no plastic or styrofoam, although it is really more of an environmental issue.
Disclaimer: Clearly my opinions on this subject are not based on any real research of scientific studies, just my preferences.
I store dry goods in plastic containers but I only use glass in the microwave. Heat can definitely make a difference dealing with chemicals.
All i got to at one time it was bad to fry in a cast iron pan.It's good for you, it increases the iron in your diet. A lot of people, especially menstruating women, have low iron. Iron is absolutely essential for the ability of your blood to transport oxygen.
Exactly my thoughts as well. Why intentionally put chemicals into your body over and over whether they have been proven safe by some group or not, or declared safe by someone on whiteblaze. I do not believe that synthetic chemicals belong in our bodies. I don't use Teflon either, and I have switched to glass storage containers at home. We can't get away from plastics all together, but we can minimize how much of the chemicals from plastic or other chemicals that we may ingest by making other choices. This is my general thinking. I used to justify it because I smoked, that pretty much overshadows just about anything you can routinely do to your body chemical-wise. I do use aluminum because they have tried to prove that it is harmful and have been unable to do so.
Bruce Hudson
06-09-2008, 18:05
As I said in my initial question, I'm new to this. However, last summer finding enough water to regularly clean up my equipment would have been difficult a lot of the time. Part of the initial appeal of the feezer bag cooking (the concept I used last year) was that I didn't need the clean-up water. If I'm leaving Springer approximately a week from todday I wonder what water situation will be. Any info??
Bruce Hudson
Appalachian Tater
06-09-2008, 18:08
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=100
Threads about water availability are usually in that forum.
rpenczek
06-10-2008, 09:03
We use freezer bag cooking in a few way, with great success.
1. In base camp (when we have acceess to coolers) we boil eggs in a bag. In a qt freezer bag add three eggs, shredded cheese, bacon bits, etc...) Mush everything up (think omlet). Drop in a pot and boil. Squeez eggs out onto a tortillia and you have a great breakfast borito.
2. On the trail put your meal fixens in a qt freezer bag. Add necessary boiling water, let stand and eat. Carry out your trash. This is really no different that rehydrating a Mountian House or Richmor meal in the pouch.
3. When we are in a grou 6-10 (boy scouts), we use a white gas stove and two big pots (4 or 8 qt pots). Boil water in one pot. Line the other pot with a turkey bag. Add dehydrated stuff to the lined pot. When water boils, add just the amount of water you need to the dry pot and let stand. 15 minutes, time to eat. (of course, we have to wash up serving spoon and bowls for this method, but never have to scrub a pot. Once again, carry out your trash.