View Full Version : Bears near Elkwallow Wayside in SNP
Fannypack
06-13-2008, 09:41
I just read Stumpknocker's post for June 11 (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=237134) and June 12 (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=237152) and he mentions seeing ALLOT of Bears in the vicinity of Elkwallow Wayside (north & south of it).
My question is:
Do other people see allot of bears in that same area?
I see bears there every year especially when I am hiking or driving early in that area.
I have a thought about the countless bears in this area:
Located within a few miles of Elkwallow Wayside is Mathews Arm campground (Skyline Drive milepost 22.1), so is it possible that this campground attracts these bears?
OR
is there another reason that you can give that would explain this seemingly large number of bears in this area?
Skyline (aka Jim A.), I am curious about your thoughts on this subject.
Pedaling Fool
06-13-2008, 09:54
I saw this bear (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17964&c) near Lewis Mtn Campground. He was very aggitated by my presence; he did not want me to pass. I think there is a growing bear problem in SNP. Should be looked into, believe some are feeding them, don't think they can get into the trash cans, which is good, but I bet a lot of campers get food stolen. I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to shoot a few of the aggressive one with something non-lethal, but that would really hurt so they would regain there fear. I really hate to see them killed because a not too timid bear finally gets to the point of hurting someone.
dessertrat
06-13-2008, 09:59
john gault, is that bear as ginormous as he looks in the photo? He looks like a bigun.
I've seen more bears over the years between Piney Ridge and Elkwallow Wayside than anywhere else in the Park. That's on the AT for the first mile north of Elkwallow, and eastward on the Piney Ridge Trail. Lots of reported sightings in and near the campground, too.
Nothing new this year.
Reasons? IMHO the Wayside's food service is an attraction, but also there is Range View Cabin along Piney Ridge with an outdoor fireplace/grill that renters use (and maybe leave food or scraps outside). Mathews Arm Campground is only a couple miles from each, and not all campers are smart about their food. Taken as a group, this provides a triangle of sorts which is precisely where a lot of bear sightings occur.
Back a couple decades or more, before the Park got into LNT and other environmentally sound practices, there was a huge dump just northwest of the campground. It attracted so many bears that this dump became a tourist attraction. It has been closed for a long time, but might explain the historic presence of bears in this part of the Park which continues today.
dessertrat
06-13-2008, 10:02
Has it been a bad food year so far? That might be drawing the bears into closer contact with people.
StarLyte
06-13-2008, 10:08
Well that is a BEAUTIFUL picture of the bear. He is massive !
Stumpknocker always complained that he never gets to see bears HA!
A reminder that we must learn to share the earth with such creatures. I hope nothing happens to anyone, but especially to the bears.
Thank you for posting this Fannypack.
I saw this bear (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17964&c) near Lewis Mtn Campground. He was very aggitated by my presence; he did not want me to pass. I think there is a growing bear problem in SNP. Should be looked into, believe some are feeding them, don't think they can get into the trash cans, which is good, but I bet a lot of campers get food stolen. I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to shoot a few of the aggressive one with something non-lethal, but that would really hurt so they would regain there fear. I really hate to see them killed because a not too timid bear finally gets to the point of hurting someone.
The Park agrees. Just this week I was included on an e-mail blast that dealt with this very issue.
SNP has two new "Nuisance Wildlife Aversive Conditioning Bio-techs" working on this. One has previous experience with nuisance bears in Western National Parks; the other worked at SNP on this issue in a less structured format in 2007.
The new program concentrates on "frontcountry" (developed areas), but a request has gone out for backcountry staff and volunteers to report instances of "bears begging for food, hanging around tents, or being just unafraid of humans."
The verbage (i.e., "nuisance bears") is from the e-mail blast. I know humans are often the initiators of the problem, and the bears often pay the ultimate price.
Fannypack
06-13-2008, 10:44
The Park agrees. Just this week I was included on an e-mail blast that dealt with this very issue.
SNP has two new "Nuisance Wildlife Aversive Conditioning Bio-techs" working on this. One has previous experience with nuisance bears in Western National Parks; the other worked at SNP on this issue in a less structured format in 2007.
The new program concentrates on "frontcountry" (developed areas), but a request has gone out for backcountry staff and volunteers to report instances of "bears begging for food, hanging around tents, or being just unafraid of humans."
The verbage (i.e., "nuisance bears") is from the e-mail blast. I know humans are often the initiators of the problem, and the bears often pay the ultimate price.
Jim, I am curious if the SNP "staff" or persons working w/ SNP wildlife using any kind of tagging system (or monitoring system, electronic or otherwise) where the wildlife, specifically bears, location can be tracked?
Btw, THANKS for your timely and informative feedback.
Lone Wolf
06-13-2008, 10:46
the park needs a hunt to thin the sumbitches out
wilconow
06-13-2008, 10:50
Yeah I saw one right near there this past fall on the downhill. We stared at each other for a long time.
dessertrat
06-13-2008, 10:53
the park needs a hunt to thin the sumbitches out
And reinstill fear of humans. That would be good for both people and bears, except the few bears that end up with X's across their eyes. A small price to pay.
Jim, I am curious if the SNP "staff" or persons working w/ SNP wildlife using any kind of tagging system (or monitoring system, electronic or otherwise) where the wildlife, specifically bears, location can be tracked?
Btw, THANKS for your timely and informative feedback.
I know many bears have tags, not sure about anything hi-tech.
the park needs a hunt to thin the sumbitches out
Long term this may be an answer. Short term, they'll study it to death to prove the need for the longer term solution.
Another solution might be to relocate some of the bear population to other parts of the state, or beyond. That would be more humane, but only if they didn't leave any cubs orphaned, which would be more likely to happen in a hunt anyway. It would also be more expensive and labor-intense.
the goat
06-13-2008, 11:26
My question is:
Do other people see allot of bears in that same area?
the only time i've been chased by a bear was about 1/8 mile north of elkwallow wayside. i ran down the wayside to get the hell of away from her, and she gave up the chase.
scared the living sh[t out of me.:eek:
I hiked south from Elkwallow on the 6th of June. Didn't see any bears, but smelled one about a quarter mile south of the wayside. Oh, and Catfish nearly stepped on a Rattler in the same area...he got a video of it.
I think you can see bears anytime anywhere in SNP if you are out early at daybreak or late around dusk. It is time for a hunt as LW suggests. You never see bears if they are hunted some during the year.
juma
Just to pile on, and for what it's worth - I've got a place on top of a mountain real close to Simmons Gap in the SNP. Been spending most weekends there for 15 years now, and I can tell you first hand that in the past two years I've seen a significant increase in the bear population. Last fall while at my cabin I got up just after dawn, walked out on the deck of my cabin with a cup of coffee and heard a bunch of racket behind the cabin. Of course I walked around to see what was going on and I counted 5 individual bears in the top of my old oaks just eating acorns like there was no tomorrow. Got it all on video - it was incredible.
Nowadays, I see bears all the time, or at least fresh scat, almost every weekend. Fortunatley, at least around my 13 acres and cabin the bears I've run into were scared of me and would just run off if I yelled at 'em. We're VERY careful with our food around there. We don't give them any reason at all to want to be around, but they are and it's on the rise.
Big E
So we should start hunting bears because we're seeing too many? Or because some people are scared of seeing them? Or because some people feeeeeel like there are too many? Or because some no-talent guitar player talks this kind of smack? :rolleyes:
I have a suggestion. Maybe we should let the biologists at the NPS deal with it.
Lone Wolf
06-13-2008, 12:55
So we should start hunting bears because we're seeing too many? Or because some people are scared of seeing them? Or because some people feeeeeel like there are too many? Or because some no-talent guitar player talks this kind of smack? :rolleyes:
I have a suggestion. Maybe we should let the biologists at the NPS deal with it.
i ain't no, no talent geetar player
Fannypack
06-13-2008, 13:12
Just to pile on, and for what it's worth - I've got a place on top of a mountain real close to Simmons Gap in the SNP. Been spending most weekends there for 15 years now, and I can tell you first hand that in the past two years I've seen a significant increase in the bear population. Last fall while at my cabin I got up just after dawn, walked out on the deck of my cabin with a cup of coffee and heard a bunch of racket behind the cabin. Of course I walked around to see what was going on and I counted 5 individual bears in the top of my old oaks just eating acorns like there was no tomorrow. Got it all on video - it was incredible.
Nowadays, I see bears all the time, or at least fresh scat, almost every weekend. Fortunatley, at least around my 13 acres and cabin the bears I've run into were scared of me and would just run off if I yelled at 'em. We're VERY careful with our food around there. We don't give them any reason at all to want to be around, but they are and it's on the rise.
Big E
Interesting!
I did not realize that there were still private residences within the SNP.
I am curious, how many private residences are within the SNP?
wilconow
06-13-2008, 13:44
I do not believe the guy is saying his place is in SNP..
So we should start hunting bears because we're seeing too many? Or because some people are scared of seeing them? Or because some people feeeeeel like there are too many? Or because some no-talent guitar player talks this kind of smack? :rolleyes:
I have a suggestion. Maybe we should let the biologists at the NPS deal with it.
My thoughts. I love seeing bear. Unless there's a problem, let them be.
I agree. I really enjoy seeing them too. Up here it is the griz that give folks pause. although, i have a friend
who was chased by a moose a few days ago. She was plenty shook up.
Interesting!
I did not realize that there were still private residences within the SNP.
I am curious, how many private residences are within the SNP?
Fannypack,
If his cabin is one of the ones I'm thinking about, it is just outside the SNP boundary.
Unlike George Washington National Forest to the south and west of SNP, there are no private in-holdings (private land surrounded by Park land) in SNP. However, there are a fair number of occupied dwellings just outside the official boundary.
When SNP was first established, there were a few (very few) older citizens who were allowed to stay on in their residences within the Park until their death. At that time their homes were typically razed, and no other younger members of the family could live there. Today, AFAIK, there are none of these folks still alive.
Blissful
06-13-2008, 15:56
You can see houses from the AT on Flattop Mtn - they are fairly close.
Wow I need to get out there now I guess, as I have a hard time seeing any bears... We had heard of a ma bear and cubs near Elkwallow when we did that section but never saw anything.
Same thing with moose up north. Heard about it from other hikers but saw nothing.
Nicksaari
06-13-2008, 16:51
Fortunately, at least around my 13 acres and cabin the bears I've run into were scared of me and would just run off if I yelled at 'em. We're VERY careful with our food around there. We don't give them any reason at all to want to be around, but they are and it's on the rise.
Big E[/quote]
you live south/sou'east and below loft mtn campground? thats cool, man
bears nearby anyways from the weekender's during the season.
NICKTHEGREEK
06-13-2008, 17:26
Even with poaching on the rise the bear population in SNP exceeds 1 per square mile. Park is about 300 sq miles.
Hikerhead
06-13-2008, 18:35
You can see houses from the AT on Flattop Mtn - they are fairly close.
Wow I need to get out there now I guess, as I have a hard time seeing any bears... We had heard of a ma bear and cubs near Elkwallow when we did that section but never saw anything.
Same thing with moose up north. Heard about it from other hikers but saw nothing.
The key word is WE.....go by yourself and you're more likely to see some.
Blue Jay
06-14-2008, 08:59
I saw three different bears, very close, near the waysides. One was doing a dance for two pickup trucks, who were obviously feeding it. A few days later, I had talked to the NOBO named Jack Frost and later saw his footprints over laid with bear prints that were following him. I turned around and there was a large bear following me. He stood up. I said "Helloww Bear" like Art Carne in the Honeymooners. He realized I was not going to drop my pack and run so he stretched and made believe he did not threaten me and walked away. I also camped out near where I saw the bears. I had no problems at all. Why everyone is sooo afraid. If you don't feed them or run away they leave you alone. There are plenty of things to be afraid of, bears are not one of them.
TIDE-HSV
06-14-2008, 09:20
When SNP was first established, there were a few (very few) older citizens who were allowed to stay on in their residences within the Park until their death. At that time their homes were typically razed, and no other younger members of the family could live there. Today, AFAIK, there are none of these folks still alive.
That was the same situation in the GSMNP also. They were mostly around the Elkmont area. There was even a lodge operating there as late as the early 80s. I think it had a fire and they bulldozed it. I haven't been back to that area in quite a while, but I think they're probably all gone, just like in SNP. When the Park was declared a wilderness area, they excluded the trans-mountain road and LeConte Lodge. I guess the developed campgrounds are also excluded...
Cookerhiker
06-14-2008, 09:34
Last summer I saw bears in all 3 districts of SNP. I've been coming to SNP for 35 years and saw more last year than ever.
Hikerhead and I saw this mother (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=17265&catid=member&imageuser=132) and her cubs in the Northern District at Beahm's Gap south of Elk Wallow.