Volunteers hope to bring the Appalachian trail to Alabama - USA Today

[WhiteBlaze]

<table border=0 width= valign=top cellpadding=2 cellspacing=7><tr><td valign=top class=j><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class=lh><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2008-06-17-alabama-pinhoti-trail_N.htm&cid=0&ei=eIZXSN_1Dp_K8AS9oeHMBg&usg=AFQjCNHV-WiuiFxtE6b7QsNvtCjRtOni0w">Volunteers hope to bring the <b>Appalachian trail</b> to Alabama</a><br><font size=-1><font color=#6f6f6f>USA Today&nbsp;-</font> <nobr>31 minutes ago</nobr></font><br><font size=-1>Until, that is, it&#39;s compared with the legendary route where it winds up: The mighty <b>Appalachian Trail</b>. The 2175-mile path winds through mountains, <b>...</b></font></div></font></td></tr></table>

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[minnesotasmith]

"I thruhiked the entire Appalachian Trail in 2006, going from Georgia to Maine through 14 states, all 2174.6 miles over 9 months. I intend to do it again in 2009, this time adding the Pinhoti Trail in Alabama and N. Georgia to it.

There are multiple reasons IMO why very few of the roughly 1800 people who attempt an Appalachian Trail thruhike each year (only about 400 finish) currently or forseeably would tack on the Pinhotil Trail as well:

1) The AL section may be completed, but the GA section is not. There are 20+ miles of roadwalks remaining in the longer Georgia section.

2) There are about 7 trail shelters in the AL section, around half the frequency per mile that the AT has in general, but there are NONE in the GA section, with no plans to add them anytime soon.

3) There are no hostels (places of business where hikers can shower, wash clothes, have a food/gear package sent, make a phone call, and sleep) along the Pinhoti. Note that nearly all thruhikers have to be careful with money, such that the going hostel rate in the U.S. south is $20 or less a night, so the occasional motel in Pinhoti Trail towns is little use to most of them. A full-service truckstop with showers and laundry facilities would partially do, but there are few to none of those of which I am aware near the Pinhoti, either.

4) Local towns near the Pinhoti are not otherwise geared up for thruhikers, either, with locals not being accustomed to giving hikers rides between towns and the trail, few to no buffet restaurants (hikers have to eat a LOT with all the calories they burn hiking), no hiking equipment stores ("outfitters"), etc.

5) Much of the Pinhoti allows all-terrain vehicles, horses, bicycles, etc., which are notorious for damaging trails and their ambience. The AT is a foot-travel-only trail in the interest of preventing trail damage, mess, and noise. Those users would have to be kept out as part of making the Pinhoti an AT extension, and ATV users in particular normally take substantial law enforcement attention to respond to no-trespassing rules.

6) The Pinhoti is so far south and low-altitude, it is too hot and insect-plagued as a practical matter to hike on during the majority of the year. Thruhikers commonly carry a variety of equipment to deal with biting insects, but more casual hikers hardly ever do, so there will probably never be many day/weekend hikers (the bulk of current AT users) on the Pinhoti most of the year.

7) The Pinhoti in GA does not actually currently connect to the AT. It instead ends on the Benton MacKaye Trail, which then intersects the AT a number of miles north of the AT's actual beginning. The Pinhoti in GA needs to be rerouted directly to either Springer Mtn. or Amicalola State Park (the two places AT northbound thruhikers mainly start) to avoid thuhikers starting on the Pinhoti having to backtrack, hitch rides, pay a shuttler, or skip part of the AT. Like #1 & 2, this is a problem affecting use of the Pinhoti that the AL Pinhoti Club is powerless to fix, the less-able GA club being well behind the AL Club in developing their section of the Pinhoti Trail.

For these reasons, I don't expect many other hikers to add the Pinhoti Trail to an Appalachian Trail thruhike (as I am planning) during the next decade or two at least."
==================================================
I doubt that my comment will do much to light a fire under anyone to fix the problems the Pinhoti currently has with appealing to most AT hikers, but every little bit, right?

[minnesotasmith]

Found out the e-mail address of a contact at the Birmingham, Alabama Chamber of Commerce, where this Cosby guy is affiliated who is pushing the idea of extending the AT to include the Pinhoti, and e-mailed a copy of my comment to them to forward to him.

Even if (as I expect) nothing will ever come of officially extending the AT to Flagg Mtn. in Alabama, perhaps in a small way it could help improve the Pinhoti to closer to AT standards WRT infrastructure.

[minnesotasmith]

Anyway these two "Appalachian Trail News Today" threads could be merged?

[Alligator]

Anyway these two "Appalachian Trail News Today" threads could be merged?Which ones? There are already a couple of news threads on the idea of the Pinhoti AT meeting/combination.

[MOWGLI]

"

5) Much of the Pinhoti allows all-terrain vehicles, horses, bicycles, etc., which are notorious for damaging trails and their ambience. The AT is a foot-travel-only trail in the interest of preventing trail damage, mess, and noise. Those users would have to be kept out as part of making the Pinhoti an AT extension, and ATV users in particular normally take substantial law enforcement attention to respond to no-trespassing rules.

6) The Pinhoti is so far south and low-altitude, it is too hot and insect-plagued as a practical matter to hike on during the majority of the year. Thruhikers commonly carry a variety of equipment to deal with biting insects, but more casual hikers hardly ever do, so there will probably never be many day/weekend hikers (the bulk of current AT users) on the Pinhoti most of the year.

7) The Pinhoti in GA does not actually currently connect to the AT. It instead ends on the Benton MacKaye Trail, which then intersects the AT a number of miles north of the AT's actual beginning. The Pinhoti in GA needs to be rerouted directly to either Springer Mtn. or Amicalola State Park (the two places AT northbound thruhikers mainly start) to avoid thuhikers starting on the Pinhoti having to backtrack, hitch rides, pay a shuttler, or skip part of the AT. Like #1 & 2, this is a problem affecting use of the Pinhoti that the AL Pinhoti Club is powerless to fix, the less-able GA club being well behind the AL Club in developing their section of the Pinhoti Trail.

For these reasons, I don't expect many other hikers to add the Pinhoti Trail to an Appalachian Trail thruhike (as I am planning) during the next decade or two at least."
==================================================
I doubt that my comment will do much to light a fire under anyone to fix the problems the Pinhoti currently has with appealing to most AT hikers, but every little bit, right?

A couple of problems with the above post.


The Pinhoti does not "allow" All terrain vehicles anywhere on the trail. Not in Georgia, and not in Alabama.
It is completely inaccurate to suggest that the Pinhoti is "too hot" & "insect-plagued" during the "majority of the year"
The Benton MacKaye Trail starts exactly .2 miles north of the southern terminus of the AT on Springer Mountain. Not "a number of miles north of the AT's actual beginning."
The shelters and campsites along the Pinhoti in Alabama are quite sufficient for any backpacker.


You should really hike the trail before you attempt to (mis) characterize it.

[Cuffs]

MS, you, again, are speaking out of your a$$. You have misinformation on the Pinhoti and are passing that misinformation along as fact. And, Mr. Tom Cosby will most likely email you back. He is a hiker, but is not affiliated with any trail group, just the C of C. I highly suggest you learn a little more before you wind up putting your other foot in your mouth... it might put a crimp in your '09 hike...

[double d]

I think extending the AT into Alabama has alot more to do with the Alabama's state tourism department then it does with the AT. The AT should start in Ga (nobo of course) and finish in Ma. Using the logic from one of the articles, if the AT is extended into Alabama, then the AT should be extened into Canada.

[Appalachian Tater]

Services will appear when there is demand for them, not vice versa. The A.T. didn't always have the services it has now.

Also, the vast majority of hikers aren't thru-hikers and have little need for hostels and other services for long-distance hikers.

I grew up next door to Alabama and I can assure you that the biting insects in some of the areas up north have the mosquitoes in the south beat by a mile and insect repellant works better on them, too.

The heat and humidity can be just as bad up here, too, it just doesn't last as many months.

[MOWGLI]

Nimblewill Nomad loved his experiences on the Pinhoti. While the Georgia Pinhoti Trail Association may be small, when they learn that a thru-hiker is coming through the area, they often do whatever they can to assist that individual.

[tlbj6142]

The shelters and campsites along the Pinhoti in Alabama are quite sufficient for any backpacker.You left out the lack of "town services" and hostels. As we all know without "town services", hostels or shelters there wouldn't be backpacking. It just can't happen.

[MOWGLI]

You left out the lack of "town services" and hostels. As we all know without "town services", hostels or shelters there wouldn't be backpacking. It just can't happen.

There are plenty of "town services." Just not as much data about them. And some of them you have to go further from the trail. Hostels are far from necessary. In fact, IMO, there are too many on the AT.

[Mags]

I would not mind hiking the Pinhoti myself at some point. Doing the southern part of the Appalachians, esp. in the Fall, would be quite nice.

The lack of shelters would actually be a plus to be honest.

[MOWGLI]

PS: Don't misunderstand my points. I am not in favor of extending the AT. The AT is what it is.

[minnesotasmith]

A couple of problems with the above post.


The Pinhoti does not "allow" All terrain vehicles anywhere on the trail. Not in Georgia, and not in Alabama.
It is completely inaccurate to suggest that the Pinhoti is "too hot" & "insect-plagued" during the "majority of the year"
The Benton MacKaye Trail starts exactly .2 miles north of the southern terminus of the AT on Springer Mountain. Not "a number of miles north of the AT's actual beginning."
The shelters and campsites along the Pinhoti in Alabama are quite sufficient for any backpacker.


1) I read somewhere that ATVs are a problem in multiple locations on the Pinhoti, but can't find the source right now. Allowed de facto (from negligible law enforcement, or de jure, same deal from the POV of hikers who don't care for inevitable multifoot-deep mudholes/ruts/vanished trailbeds from rampant ATVers.

2) From the thread where I posted e-mails I received in reply to my questions from e-mailing the entire GA Pinhoti Board of Directors: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37496, at least one member of that board rides horses on the Pinhoti.

3) From that same thread, one of the board (Marty ___) told me:

"The most expeditious route to reach Springer [from the northern terminus of the Pinhoti] is probably to return down the Pinhoti Trail 7 miles to the junction of the Pinhoti Trail and the Mountain Creek Trail. Here, continue another 1.6 miles to reach a road that passes Hills Lake on its way to the paved Gates Chapel Road. Turn left, follow Gates Chapel Road for 4.8 miles to Georgia Highway 52. Turn left (east) on Highway 52. In 5.2 miles, reach Ellijay, Georgia. Continue on Georgia 52 east of Ellijay for 21 miles to reach to the gate of Amicalola Falls State Park. Turn left, enter the park, and reach the visitor's center and trailhead for the Springer Mountain Approach Trail in less than 1/2 mile. This is the most direct route you will find."

Their online maps of the GA Pinhoti s**k to the point of uselessness, and my ordered copy of their field guide has not yet arrived in the mail, so I'm just going by what a member of their board told me. I figured he'd likely be right...


4) Yeah, that area is insect central in the summer (which stretches from April to Halloween). One of my graduate schools was Auburn University. I had a summer camp as a kid not far from the northern part of the where the Pinhoti runs in Alabama. And, I did extensive field geology work for my thesis in the hills NE of Birmingham. So, I do know something about how that locale is in summer.

5) If the lack of shelters is not a factor in probably not one in a thousand AT thruhike attempts starting in Alabama on the Pinhoti, you'll need to find another one. As much as thruhikers use the shelters on the AT, it's a pretty good partial explanation IMO.

[Cuffs]

PS: Don't misunderstand my points. I am not in favor of extending the AT. The AT is what it is.

I second that motion. I just want the facts out there, not what some people 'think' the Pinhoti is (or is not.)

[MOWGLI]

1) I read somewhere that ATVs are a problem in multiple locations on the Pinhoti, but can't find the source right now. Allowed de facto (from negligible law enforcement, or de jure, same deal from the POV of hikers who don't care for inevitable multifoot-deep mudholes/ruts/vanished trailbeds from rampant ATVers.

2) From the thread where I posted e-mails I received in reply to my questions from e-mailing the entire GA Pinhoti Board of Directors: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37496, at least one member of that board rides horses on the Pinhoti.

3) From that same thread, one of the board (Marty ___) told me:

"The most expeditious route to reach Springer [from the northern terminus of the Pinhoti] is probably to return down the Pinhoti Trail 7 miles to the junction of the Pinhoti Trail and the Mountain Creek Trail. Here, continue another 1.6 miles to reach a road that passes Hills Lake on its way to the paved Gates Chapel Road. Turn left, follow Gates Chapel Road for 4.8 miles to Georgia Highway 52. Turn left (east) on Highway 52. In 5.2 miles, reach Ellijay, Georgia. Continue on Georgia 52 east of Ellijay for 21 miles to reach to the gate of Amicalola Falls State Park. Turn left, enter the park, and reach the visitor's center and trailhead for the Springer Mountain Approach Trail in less than 1/2 mile. This is the most direct route you will find."

Their online maps of the GA Pinhoti s**k to the point of uselessness, and my ordered copy of their field guide has not yet arrived in the mail, so I'm just going by what a member of their board told me. I figured he'd likely be right...


4) Yeah, that area is insect central in the summer (which stretches from April to Halloween). One of my graduate schools was Auburn University. I had a summer camp as a kid not far from the northern part of the where the Pinhoti runs in Alabama. And, I did extensive field geology work for my thesis in the hills NE of Birmingham. So, I do know something about how that locale is in summer.

5) If the lack of shelters is not a factor in probably not one in a thousand AT thruhike attempts starting in Alabama on the Pinhoti, you'll need to find another one. As much as thruhikers use the shelters on the AT, it's a pretty good partial explanation IMO.

A few responses;

Enforcement in our national Forests is an issue all over the USA. There are sections of the AT where (regrettably) ATVs are ridden.

I read your email exchange with the GA Pinhoti Board. I know all of those folks including Larry Wheat (who rides horses). The Pinhoti in Georgia is open to bikes & horses.

Marty is an engineer. He told you the most expeditious route to the AT. Most hikers want to remain on trails though. That is possible with the exception of the two road walks in Georgia.

The situation with maps on the Georgia section of the Pinhoti is not ideal. I agree with that point. But the determined hiker can get through there without much problem. The biggest issue in Georgia is water.

The Pinhoti would make a great hike from October to early April IMO. That's almost half the year without bugs and heat. You plan on starting in February, so bugs & heat are essentially a non-issue for you.

The Alabama section of the Pinhoti has some of the best campsites. A number of them on earthen dams above lakes (impoundments). Very unique.

Enjoy your experience MS. But please refrain from characterizing the trail before you set foot on it.

[minnesotasmith]

You plan on starting in February, so bugs & heat are essentially a non-issue for you.

I'm starting the Pinhoti around New Year's or a bit before that. It's the AT I figure on starting no later than mid-February.

Agreed that bugs will likely not be much of an issue for me on the Pinhoti (or on the AT till somewhere between Pearisburg and the SNP).

[Odd Thomas]

Also, the vast majority of hikers aren't thru-hikers and have little need for hostels and other services for long-distance hikers.

This is kind of mooted by the fact that the only new people in the equation after changing the trail's name to "the Appalachian Trail" would be thru-hikers.

[MOWGLI]

This is kind of mooted by the fact that the only new people in the equation after changing the trail's name to "the Appalachian Trail" would be thru-hikers.

I don't agree. With the very effective media coverage that this "campaign" is generating, I'm sure all kinds of hikers are seeking out the Pinhoti, including day hikers and section hikers. Think about the Pinhoti 5 years ago. Hardly anyone knew it existed. Now it seems most hikers in the SE, and many around the US know about it's existence. And that's a good thing - cause it's a great trail.

Since it is primarily a linear trail, there aren't too many loop opportunities for day hikers, excepting around Cheaha State Park with the Chinabee Silent Trail. There is a 17 mile loop I'd like to do as a day hike sometime. Maybe this fall. Perhaps we can get a group from WB together to do it.

[Odd Thomas]

I don't agree. With the very effective media coverage that this "campaign" is generating, I'm sure all kinds of hikers are seeking out the Pinhoti, including day hikers and section hikers.

These people are already a given, as they now know/use the trail weather or not the actual name is changed.


Think about the Pinhoti 5 years ago. Hardly anyone knew it existed. Now it seems most hikers in the SE, and many around the US know about it's existence. hmmmmm........

The Pinhoti Trail was completed in February 2008, and officially opened to the public on March 16, 2008.


And that's a good thing - cause it's a great trail. That's what I hear, mainly from these announcements that they're pushing to make it part of the Appalachian Trail. Which proves advertising works, but advertising doesn't necessarily have to be in the form of "we're part of the Appalachian Trail" to be effective.

[MOWGLI]

hmmmmm........

The Pinhoti Trail was completed in February 2008, and officially opened to the public on March 16, 2008.



http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?trailname=2761

[Krewzer]

I think extending the AT into Alabama has alot more to do with the Alabama's state tourism department then it does with the AT. The AT should start in Ga (nobo of course) and finish in Ma. Using the logic from one of the articles, if the AT is extended into Alabama, then the AT should be extened into Canada.

So why is this a bad thing? I don't know exactly how the Alabama State tourism board got involved in the first place. But, most likely because these trail builders down in Alabama are really excited about their long distance trail in the Heart of Dixie and told them what a great thing this is and the Tourism Board totally agreed with them. We don't hear near often enough about a state, a city or a trail group that is so excited about their trail.

They've done a lot of work... a lot of hard hard work. You know they have. The kind of work that made the AT what it is today. We don't hear near often enough about a state, community or trail group that's so proud of "their trail". Proud enough to want to share it with everyone and believe it's good enough to be a part of the AT. Which is exactly what it is and should be.

They started from scratch, with nothing but an idea. Just somebody thinking about being in the woods. Which is exactly what Benton MacKaye started with. If Benton MacKaye were here today and said, "let's extend the AT to the end of the Appalachian Mountain Range in Alabama" you can bet your boots somebody would be doing it. It's a shame he already dreamed it, and today some would say "Nah! Not a good idea".

As for extended the AT to Canada, I'm for that too. I'd like to to see it extended to the Florida Keys. What could possibly be wrong with that?


PS: Don't misunderstand my points. I am not in favor of extending the AT. The AT is what it is.

Come on MOWGLI, get on this "Free Bird" band wagon. They're doing exactly what you're doing. You know in your heart you'd like to see this happen.

"Sweet Home Alabama, where the skies are so blue."
... the bugs don't bite, the grits trees grow taller, the good ole boys are just that, football is a religion and it's high temple is the Iron Bowl, fried chicken is the state bird, and there is nothing more beautiful than the sound of a soft Southern accent heard over the roar of the Talledega 500.

Come on you guys, there isn't one good reason why this shouldn't happen.

[tlbj6142]

there isn't one good reason why this shouldn't happen.Thru-hikers would actually have to hike rather than party for 9 months. Though the hiking season would probably get a bit longer.

[minnesotasmith]

So why is this a bad thing? I don't know exactly how the Alabama State tourism board got involved in the first place. But, most likely because these trail builders down in Alabama are really excited about their long distance trail in the Heart of Dixie and told them what a great thing this is and the Tourism Board totally agreed with them. We don't hear near often enough about a state, a city or a trail group that is so excited about their trail.

They've done a lot of work... a lot of hard hard work. You know they have. The kind of work that made the AT what it is today. We don't hear near often enough about a state, community or trail group that's so proud of "their trail". Proud enough to want to share it with everyone and believe it's good enough to be a part of the AT. Which is exactly what it is and should be.

They started from scratch, with nothing but an idea. Just somebody thinking about being in the woods. Which is exactly what Benton MacKaye started with. If Benton MacKaye were here today and said, "let's extend the AT to the end of the Appalachian Mountain Range in Alabama" you can bet your boots somebody would be doing it. It's a shame he already dreamed it, and today some would say "Nah! Not a good idea".

As for extended the AT to Canada, I'm for that too. I'd like to to see it extended to the Florida Keys. What could possibly be wrong with that?



Come on MOWGLI, get on this "Free Bird" band wagon. They're doing exactly what you're doing. You know in your heart you'd like to see this happen.

"Sweet Home Alabama, where the skies are so blue."
... the bugs don't bite, the grits trees grow taller, the good ole boys are just that, football is a religion and it's high temple is the Iron Bowl, fried chicken is the state bird, and there is nothing more beautiful than the sound of a soft Southern accent heard over the roar of the Talledega 500.

Come on you guys, there isn't one good reason why this shouldn't happen.
=============================================


Bfeely (http://www.usatoday.com/community/profile.htm?UID=1df6b239a33a6242) wrote: 18h 34m ago
This sounds like a real no-brainer-do it!! Get the approval of the two Secretaries and lets make some dream come true!! It really doesn't sound that hard.



MinnesotaSmith (http://www.usatoday.com/community/profile.htm?UID=3684b42bd479fb7f) wrote: 51m ago
It's not that simple, Bfeely. The main umbrella organization that oversees the Appalachian Trail, the Appalachian Trail Conservancy, is against it. As the gov't bigshots that would have to be convinced are likely to listen disproportionately to them, the ATC would have to be convinced first.
It's mainly just an emotional resistance-to-change issue at the ATC IMO.

No one likes hearing that their views (and their thruhikes if they did one in the past, as many at the ATC have done) are obsolete.
The ATC has more than a few [internal] issues of its own already, from not reigning in the Appalachian Mountain Club to perpetually delaying fixing the AT's misrouting between the Shenandoah National Park and Vermont, to not having consistent standards for trail construction/maintenance, to arguably less than fully open elections, etc., so I wouldn't hold my breath on them doing what's best for outdoorsmen in the U.S. over what they see as best for them. It'll take a small version of Teddy Roosevelt, like a Myron Avery on steroids, to get this past them IMO (and I hope it does get done, sooner than later).

[Krewzer]

Thru-hikers would actually have to hike rather than party for 9 months. Though the hiking season would probably get a bit longer.

9 months....that would be a very slow 3 months of hiking/partying on the Pinhoti. Party in Alabama? Nothing wrong with that :)

Maybe a month at the most for the additional 300 miles of the Pinhoti to Springer. Another month on the AT? That's a good thing.

AT 2170mi + Pinhoti 300mi = 2470mi (avg 6-7 months..my estimate)
PCT = 2650mi (avg 5-6 months)
CDT = 3100mi (avg ?????)
American Discovery = 6800mi (ask ????)
IAT Katahdin to Cap Gaspe = 2870mi (avg ????)
IAT Keys to Cap Gaspe = 4400mi (298 days Nimblewell Nomad)

[tlbj6142]

Thru-hikers would actually have to hike rather than party for 9 months. Though the hiking season would probably get a bit longer.I meant that today thru-hikers can party quite a bit since the hiking season for the current AT is almost 9 months for a trail that only requires 4-6 to complete. By adding some more distance they might actually have to cut out some partying.

[MOWGLI]

No one likes hearing that their views (and their thruhikes if they did one in the past, as many at the ATC have done) are obsolete.


How in the world can someone's thru-hike become obsolete??? What value does a thru-hike have beyond the value that which the individual thru-hiker ascribes to it?

PS: The trail doesn't exist for thru-hikers.

[Krewzer]

I meant that today thru-hikers can party quite a bit since the hiking season for the current AT is almost 9 months for a trail that only requires 4-6 to complete. By adding some more distance they might actually have to cut out some partying.

Got ya.... :)

[minnesotasmith]

How in the world can someone's thru-hike become obsolete???

Just think of how Wingfoot was viscerally, even comically against the very mention of the ECT, going by the quote he had put in his 2006 trail guide. Then, consider how the bigshots at the ATC are comparably against the AT being extended into Alabama (let alone doing something really extreme like incorporating the IAT), to a degree of touchiness that's obviously emotionally-, not rationally-based. Anyone who thinks like that who's done a thruhike will likely consider any official extension to their AT thruhike to "lessen" it, to "make it not count anymore". Heck, there's no shortage of people on this forum who feel the same way, who're obviously against the whole idea of extending the AT just BC they don't want to have to emotionally grapple with that type of "change".

[minnesotasmith]

On National Public Radio's website and on the site of a TV station in Birmingham. I sent e-mailed both of them my comments on the Pinhoti's prospects for eventual acceptance as part of the AT. I'll let you know what they say, if they write me back.

[Dances with Mice]

PS: The trail doesn't exist for thru-hikers.Heretic! :D

The AT terminus points will not be moved unless there is good reason to move them. There is no good reason to move the southern terminus.

[minnesotasmith]

The AT terminus points will not be moved unless there is good reason to move them. There is no good reason to move the southern terminus.

Completing Benton MacKaye's vision for the length of the AT? He did want it to run into Alabama, I understand.

[Dances with Mice]

Completing Benton MacKaye's vision for the length of the AT? He did want it to run into Alabama, I understand.Uncompelling.

[briarpatch]

Completing Benton MacKaye's vision for the length of the AT? He did want it to run into Alabama, I understand.

Mackaye also wanted work camps/farms along the AT where people could live for weeks or months at a time, growing their own food, etc. :-?

[Dances with Mice]

Mackaye also wanted work camps/farms along the AT where people could live for weeks or months at a time, growing their own food, etc. :-?Many aspects of today's AT were not part of Mackaye's vision. Thru-hiking, for example.

There is no good reason to move either Terminus.

[double d]

Krewzer, we all have our opinions, and I certainly hold no claim that my opinions means more then anyone else outside of my belief that the AT should start at Spring Mt., but what is the reason for extending the AT into the great state of Alabama? Capitalism? Because politicians in Alabama want it moved into their state? To move the AT "just" for the sake of moving it? Heck, if thats the case, then lets move the AT into northern Illinois, we aint' got jack up here in terms of great American trails and about 300 million years ago we were part of the mountain range, so we are "entitled" to our piece of the AT coming through Northern Illinois.
Also, what about tradition? Why does our society always want something to be new, improved, changed, "made" better, ect..ect.?

[Cuffs]

Because politicians in Alabama want it moved into their state?

Its not even the 'politicians'... its the Chamber of Commerce!

[MOWGLI]

I'll settle for connectivity.

[double d]

Thats even worse Cuffs! Keep the trail at Mt.Springer, people can hike in Alabama during their free time away from the AT.

[Two Speed]

Excellent, someone gets it. The Pinhoti's a great trail in it's own right without renaming it, screwing with the AT or any other silly, useless gyrating.

[MOWGLI]

Thats even worse Cuffs! Keep the trail at Mt.Springer, people can hike in Alabama during their free time away from the AT.

I agree. We don't want to ruin the Pinhoti. ;)

[Appalachian Tater]

I have yet to see any good reason not to extend the A.T., at both ends. The only reasons I have seen are all some form of an appeal to tradition, a logical fallacy.

[Dances with Mice]

I have yet to see any good reason not to extend the A.T., at both ends. The only reasons I have seen are all some form of an appeal to tradition, a logical fallacy.The terminus markers are heavy. That's a good reason not to move them. Satisfied?

[flemdawg1]

I agree. We don't want to ruin the Pinhoti. ;)

That's like saying we don't want marriage to ruin homosexuality. :D

[Appalachian Tater]

The terminus markers are heavy. That's a good reason not to move them. Satisfied?Then just dig a hole and bury them where they are. :cool:

[Appalachian Tater]

That's like saying we don't want marriage to ruin homosexuality. :DIt already has. Now gay people have obnoxious wedding announcements just like straight people. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/15/fashion/weddings/15dewitt.html?ref=weddings

[chili36]

Why extend the AT? What is the difference if the Florida Trail connects to the Pinhoti which connected to the AT? Should we remame the entire trail system? Just the part in "Appalachia". Who is going to define "Appalachia"? ARC? ATC? There are at least some geologists who maintain the "original" Appalachians extended into Mexico.

While I have no preference for whether it happens or not, IMHO, there is no logical burning reason to "extend" the AT. Is it any less of a hike to come up the Pinhoti, to the AT and then thru hike it? Is it any bigger accomplishment because the "whole trail" was renamed the AT?

My point is, it really doesn't matter what they call it, together or in parts. It's still going to be the same walk.

[chief]

Being from Alabama and knowing something about the old boys network (chambers of commerce), it wouldn't surprise me to find some of them own property near or adjacent to the Pinhoti. It's always about money and they, no doubt, feel the name Appalachian Trail would enhance property values and commercial opportunities.
Personally, I see no reason the Pinhoti should be part of the AT. Connectivity is enough.

[Odd Thomas]

I have yet to see any good reason not to extend the A.T., at both ends. The only reasons I have seen are all some form of an appeal to tradition, a logical fallacy.

The question should be why, not why not. That's the logical fallacy of irrelevant conclusion.

[Odd Thomas]

Being from Alabama and knowing something about the old boys network (chambers of commerce), it wouldn't surprise me to find some of them own property near or adjacent to the Pinhoti. It's always about money and they, no doubt, feel the name Appalachian Trail would enhance property values and commercial opportunities.
Personally, I see no reason the Pinhoti should be part of the AT. Connectivity is enough.

Ask not what the AT can do for you, ask what you can do for the AT. ;)

[double d]

Odd Thomas, you got the quote of the day! And Appalachian Tater, anything can be agrued as a "logical fallacy", heck, i"m sure there are folks who still think the earth is flat.

[Appalachian Tater]

The question should be why, not why not. That's the logical fallacy of irrelevant conclusion.
No, you have to weigh the positives and negatives. There are plenty of positives, in fact, almost every reason for the A.T. to exist in the first place supports extending its range.

But people are always giving negatives and it seems to me they don't have any real issues against appropriately lengthening the A.T.

The only one I can think of off-hand is that it would increase the complexity of management of the trail at the highest levels but I'm sure the organizations and processes in place are capable of scaling up a little.

Well, that and that the issue of the terminus markers being heavy. :)

[Appalachian Tater]

Appalachian Tater, anything can be agrued as a "logical fallacy", No, that's simply not true.


heck, i"m sure there are folks who still think the earth is flat.No doubt. And they probably are against lengthening the A.T. :sun

[Odd Thomas]

No, you have to weigh the positives and negatives.

That comes after the "why?" is answered. Untill then weighing the positives and negatives are premature.

Remember, you have to appeal this to a representative group, following procedures of Order. The "Why?" must be established first, otherwise they'd be weighing positives and negatives of every silly "change for the sake of change" idea someone comes up with. Triage isn't their job.
http://www.robertsrules.com/


There are plenty of positives, in fact, almost every reason for the A.T. to exist in the first place supports extending its range.

But people are always giving negatives and it seems to me they don't have any real issues against appropriately lengthening the A.T. I've got nothing against them making every trail in the US the AT, but not having a reason not to, isn't a reason it should. Logical fallacy of irrelevant conclusion.


The only one I can think of off-hand is that it would increase the complexity of management of the trail at the highest levels but I'm sure the organizations and processes in place are capable of scaling up a little.Most of the actual labor would be on the volunteers and probably the existing people involved with the Pinhoti, and they would probably be inherited, so that washes out pretty much.

[Odd Thomas]

No, that's simply not true.

No doubt. And they probably are against lengthening the A.T. :sun

If the earth is flat the trail might lead off the edge! :p

[double d]

Appalachian Tater, yea, it is true, anyone can debate anything, thats why its called "logical fallacy" or maybe you just like using words like "logical fallacy" to try and prove a point? No Alabama trails for me, keep the AT at Springer, no reason to move it to Alabama other then to move it, hence, a logical fallacy.

[Odd Thomas]

Not that I'm necessarily against the idea, I'm completely ignorant of the Pinhoti trail, or weather or not annexation by the AT would benefit the AT.

[Dances with Mice]

Well, I have changed my mind because of Tater's infallible logic!

This has to be done! Now!

The only problem I see is that there is no organization trying to make it happen. But that's a minor problem. We can create one right here, right now.

Tater & Smith, you are now the leaders of the Extend the AT to Alabama and Somewhere Else To Be Determined (EATASETBD)! And I am the first member of this fine organization.

Tater & MS, I have every confidence you two can work well together, being big fans of logic and all that stuff. I'm positive y'all will get along famously. Really.

So, now that you're in charge, what will be your first action? Should we write comments to online articles in that hotbed of AT activity, a San Diego newspaper? Wait, I think that's already been covered. See? You're already way ahead! This is going to be SO EASY!

You're the boss, Boss. What's next?

[Krewzer]

(EATASETBD)! Now you're talking.
I knew it was only a matter of time before this talk of moving the end of the AT to Alabama got to you DWM. It must have been the thought of those additional 150 miles of the AT in Georgia.

OK, here goes my thoughts before I read about the formation of the EATASETBD.

Reasons so far not to extend:
1. Concerns about ruining the Pinhoti. Not to worry. We've got connections in the Whitehouse. I mean, Pres. Bush himself. You know, of course, he spent a lot of time down there while not serving with the Alabama Air National Guard. Why he's practically a citizen.
.
2. Terminus rocks are too heavy. I pretty sure the Hayheifer twins over in New Market, Al are still out of jail and looking for work. I figure it will take them two days to get those rocks to Alabama and maybe a week for us to find what flea market they're trying to sell them at. No problem.

3. ..... don't think there was a number 3 reason.

Seriously, I would love to see the Appalachian Trail completed to Southern end of the Appalachain Mountain Range in Alabama (I think that's close to Greenbow, Al :)), but I don't think it will happen anytime soon either.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not exactly sure how it would work, but I think it would take action at the Federal Level in the Dept of Interior to extend the "Appalachian National Scenic Trail" out of it's present corridor.

Just the same, if I were Dancing with Mice, I'd hire a couple of security guys to watch that rock. Did I mention I know a couple of guys?

BTW "Double D", the River to River Trail up there is getting a good bit of attention. Sounds nice. And you guys get all that beautiful snow... and some fine wailin' Blues.

I must confess I have hiked little more of the Pinhoti than MS. I just know the people, the place and the BBQ. All are great.

Y'all Come.

[double d]

Krewzer, now your talkin', the River to River trail in S.Illinois is a great hike, did it a couple of years ago over New Year's. Come on up, there's plenty of room at time of year and the walkin' is easy and sights wonderful!

[notorius tic]

Done the loop nice trail an water is not a short deal away about 5 mile streach here an there
I don't agree. With the very effective media coverage that this "campaign" is generating, I'm sure all kinds of hikers are seeking out the Pinhoti, including day hikers and section hikers. Think about the Pinhoti 5 years ago. Hardly anyone knew it existed. Now it seems most hikers in the SE, and many around the US know about it's existence. And that's a good thing - cause it's a great trail.

Since it is primarily a linear trail, there aren't too many loop opportunities for day hikers, excepting around Cheaha State Park with the Chinabee Silent Trail. There is a 17 mile loop I'd like to do as a day hike sometime. Maybe this fall. Perhaps we can get a group from WB together to do it.

[Appalachian Tater]

Well, I have changed my mind because of Tater's infallible logic!

This has to be done! Now!

The only problem I see is that there is no organization trying to make it happen. But that's a minor problem. We can create one right here, right now.

Tater & Smith, you are now the leaders of the Extend the AT to Alabama and Somewhere Else To Be Determined (EATASETBD)! And I am the first member of this fine organization.

Tater & MS, I have every confidence you two can work well together, being big fans of logic and all that stuff. I'm positive y'all will get along famously. Really.

So, now that you're in charge, what will be your first action? Should we write comments to online articles in that hotbed of AT activity, a San Diego newspaper? Wait, I think that's already been covered. See? You're already way ahead! This is going to be SO EASY!

You're the boss, Boss. What's next?

You seem to be against it "just because" and are clearly unable to articulate any reasons for or against extending the trail at either end. Ridicule won't cover that up.

[Dances with Mice]

You seem to be against it "just because" and are clearly unable to articulate any reasons for or against extending the trail at either end. Ridicule won't cover that up.I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that the leader of EATASETBD would choose to chastise the organization's most loyal volunteer.

[Appalachian Tater]

I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that the leader of EATASETBD would choose to chastise the organization's most loyal volunteer.Indeed. I knew you would be.

[MOWGLI]

I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that the leader of EATASETBD would choose to chastise the organization's most loyal volunteer.

I thought it was EATATJOES. Diner, that is. ;)

[double d]

I haven't read one logical reason as to "why" extending the AT into Alabama is a good idea. I guess we are supposed to allow the extension of the AT into Alabama because some Alabama politican wants the AT extended. According to some of the posts here (especially from Tater), the Feds have the right to extend the AT into Alabama just because they have the power to do so. As for Tater's debate that tradition is not a good enough reason to stop expansion of the AT, read the Declaration of Independence, especially the following statement, "Prudence, indeed, will dicate that Governments long established should not be changed for Light and transient Causes". How's that for "tradition"? Maybe we should change the wording of the D.Of I., if only for the reason that tradition sucks as a logical reason to do or not do something, especially when state and local governement officials want the good citizens of this country to accept their own demands.

[MOWGLI]

I haven't read one logical reason as to "why" extending the AT into Alabama is a good idea.

The original vision for the trail, as proposed by Benton MacKaye, had the trail going into Alabama. Although I'm not arguing for extending the trail, that's a pretty darn good & logical reason. Look at the original maps he penned. You'll see that they look a lot like the Pinhoti looks today.

On the other hand, one could ask what the reluctance of others to consider this idea is rooted in. Tradition is overrated IMO.

[double d]

Mowgli (or anyone else), can you name the source(s) that indicates MacKaye wanted the AT in Alabama? Was it in his 1921 article? Thanks, I've never read that MacKaye wanted the AT in Alabama and I would like to learn more about his vision for the AT. As I understand it, he developed the concept of the AT in Vermont and it went from there. As for tradition, some things need to be the same, why change for the sake of change, that debate has nothing really to do with Alabama, I would feel the same way with Fl. or moving the AT into Canada. But, its just my opinion.

[4eyedbuzzard]

The only real compelling reason I see for extending the AT into Alabama would be so that Alabama businesses could profit from the NOBO herd each spring. Half the prospective NOBO's would dump their money in AL and be done by Springer, the rest that continued would have already made a lot of equipment switches, etc. Big losers would be the outfitters and stores near the trail in GA and NC.

IMO, just a ploy to steal away revenue from existing businesses.

[MOWGLI]

Mowgli (or anyone else), can you name the source(s) that indicates MacKaye wanted the AT in Alabama? Was it in his 1921 article?

Look at the map MacKaye prepared for the ATC's first meeting in March 1925. You can find it on page 187 of the following book;

http://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title_pages/1205.html

[Dances with Mice]

Logic did not build, and has very little to do, with the AT. Logically, the AT has no reason to exist.

It is, however, inspirational. An inspired person conceived it, inspired people built it and inspired volunteers maintain it to this day. Logically I could find much, much better ways to spend the time I set aside for being on the AT.

If someone wants to extend the AT, don't try to argue logically. That won't work. You need to inspire.

So there you are. Go for it.

[double d]

MOWGLI, thanks for posting the above article, very informative (I own both the 1987 and 1949 National Geo. articles on the AT and both didn't mention extending the AT).
Dances With Mice, great posting on the "logic" of the trail.

[CherrypieScout]

If a White Balze group wants to hike the PInhoti in the Cheaha or north near Culman lake, I'm in. I live lass than an hour from Cheaha. Late October, early November are good times to hike - cool nights, days aren't bad either. Little dry, and have to wear orange!

[Krewzer]

Logic did not build, and has very little to do, with the AT. Logically, the AT has no reason to exist.

It is, however, inspirational. An inspired person conceived it, inspired people built it and inspired volunteers maintain it to this day. Logically I could find much, much better ways to spend the time I set aside for being on the AT.

If someone wants to extend the AT, don't try to argue logically. That won't work. You need to inspire.

So there you are. Go for it.

Well said my favorite Mouse Dancer. Inspiration is exactly what has built and currently maintains the 150 miles of the trail in Alabama. "Inspiration" is exactly and at this moment building and maintaining the other 150 miles of the Pinhoti National Recreation Trail in Georgia. "Inspiration" is exactly what built the Benton MacKaye Trail and maintains the 70 odd miles of trail that will link the Appalachian Trail to it's intended Southern terminus at the end of the Appalachian Mountain Range. So there you go.



The only real compelling reason I see for extending the AT into Alabama would be so that Alabama businesses could profit from the NOBO herd each spring. Half the prospective NOBO's would dump their money in AL and be done by Springer, the rest that continued would have already made a lot of equipment switches, etc. Big losers would be the outfitters and stores near the trail in GA and NC.

IMO, just a ploy to steal away revenue from existing businesses.

LOL!!!! Now that's funny, I don't care who you are. Now don't you get those buzzard feathers ruffled I'm kidding here, but I did sort of chuckle at that thought.

Winton Porter down at Walasi-Yi will be just shaking in his goretex gaiters worrying about all the the new outfitters popping up in Talladega National Forest. I can hear the spring hikers now, "Let's skip Hiawassee, I had a cheeseburger and a bath just after I flew into the new international air terminal in Eastaboga, Alabama." The NOC will go belly up. Gatlinburg and The Happy Hiker will be history. Hot Springs? Forget about it.

Georgia, by the way, has more small towns that stand to benefit from extending the AT to the end of the Appalachian Range. (1)There's Cave's Springs, pretty little town. (Miss Janet will be moving there to open her new Hostel.) (2)Rome, medium size town with everything. Probably an outfitter there already. (3)Summerville, small town with resupply and zero day potential. (4)Dalton, the carpet capital of the universe and a busy busy small town with everything a hiker would need for RNR. (5) Chatsworth, another small to medium size resupply opportunity.

The Alabama section would have; (1) Anniston, medium size town with everything about 50 miles up the trail. Good resupply opportunity and the bus station could get some hiker drop out business. (2) Heflin, a much smaller alternative to Anniston but about the same distance up the trail. (3) Peidmont is maybe 125 miles up stream, they would get some hikers in town for resupply and zero days. That's about it for towns with services.

Actually, IMHO, the Alabama section will be physically much less difficult and cut the rate of casualties in the early days of a thru hike. New hikers will have an excellent start getting their "trail legs" before those killer climbs in Georgia and NC.

Mentally, probably the same. Some are going home early no matter where they start.

[Krewzer]

click "view in google earth" the Alabama and Georgia tracks from Grizzlebee :
http://bbs.keyhole.com/ubb/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=EarthNature&Number=783423&Searchpage=1&Main=783409&Words=+Grizzlebee&topic=&Search=true#Post783423

Add tracks of the Benton MacKaye Trail and the entire Applachian Trail. This is a beautiful thing to see.

[Krewzer]

....................................

[MOWGLI]

Look at the map MacKaye prepared for the ATC's first meeting in March 1925. You can find it on page 187 of the following book;

http://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title_pages/1205.html

The map is attached.

[Appalachian Tater]

Very cool, thanks for posting that. I had tried to find it when you mentioned the book and linked to it before. The dual trails on the southern tip are quite interesting. Stone Mountain would be a fitting place for the trail to end, it has an interesting and important resonance, like Katahdin. I have only driven through Birmingham, though.

[Two Speed]

. . . Georgia, by the way, has more small towns that stand to benefit from extending the AT to the end of the Appalachian Range. (1)There's Cave's Springs, pretty little town. (Miss Janet will be moving there to open her new Hostel.) (2)Rome, medium size town with everything. Probably an outfitter there already. (3)Summerville, small town with resupply and zero day potential. (4)Dalton, the carpet capital of the universe and a busy busy small town with everything a hiker would need for RNR. (5) Chatsworth, another small to medium size resupply opportunity.

The Alabama section would have; (1) Anniston, medium size town with everything about 50 miles up the trail. Good resupply opportunity and the bus station could get some hiker drop out business. (2) Heflin, a much smaller alternative to Anniston but about the same distance up the trail. (3) Peidmont is maybe 125 miles up stream, they would get some hikers in town for resupply and zero days. That's about it for towns with services.I didn't find Rome, Summerville, Piedmont or Anniston to be particularly convenient. Heflin, Cave Spring, Coosa, Dalton and Calhoun are all good resupply points. While we're at it does Miss Janet have any plans to move to Cave Spring? That's all news to me. Actually I wish she'd open a hostel in Heflin. The HoJo there is heinous.
Actually, IMHO, the Alabama section will be physically much less difficult . . . Yeah, everyone says that until they hike the Pinhoti, myself included. Parts of it are less demanding than the AT in Georgia, but most folks seem to compensate by hiking more miles per day on those sections. Anyway, that's what my experience leads me to believe.

There are also parts of the Pinhoti that are just as challenging as the AT.
. . . and cut the rate of casualties in the early days of a thru hike. New hikers will have an excellent start getting their "trail legs" before those killer climbs in Georgia and NC.Mmmmmaybe. Still gotta get your trail legs somewhere, and I don't know that Alabama has any state laws that forbid hikers from getting blisters, repetitive stress injuries or any of the other physical injuries that kill thu hike attempts.
Mentally, probably the same. Some are going home early no matter where they start.Yeah, the mental part is pretty much the same.

Coupla details, though. Putting the terminus of the AT at the southern end of the Pinhoti will make the AT itself substantially longer, and require that newbs sharpen up their navigation much earlier. Unless things have drastically changed there are parts of the Pinhoti that simply aren't blazed like the AT. Once I got a set of Mr. Parkay's maps I didn't find it that bad, but I'm a civil engineer and have substantial experience working on survey parties, so I'm probably a bit better at reading topo maps than the average newb starting out on the AT.

Anyway, getting lost and running out of food could very easily increase the drop out rate.

One thing I don't see addressed is the administrative effort that would be required to move the terminus. It's all well and fine to wave one's hands and say this or that ought to happen. It's quite another to attend to all the details, and I think that effort could be better directed at actual trail maintenance.

Last thing I need to say is I'm not really a drop dead expert on the Pinhoti, and still have to hike the section from Calhoun to the BMT. That is in the works.

[MOWGLI]

There are also parts of the Pinhoti that are just as challenging as the AT.

The only real challenging climb for me was out of the Terrapin watershed heading NOBO.

[double d]

MOWGLI, thanks for posting BM's 1925 map, very interesting research. Thanks again.

[sylvan]

I've kind of grown up on the Pinhoti trail since it's so close. I did the whole thing (Alabama and Georgia) 6 years ago as a warm up for some hiking out west. I've also done the southern sections of the AL trail multiple times. The trail's got potential, for sure. The southern part (oldest, most established part) is where most of the shelters are, but it's not like shelters are make or break for the trail. It's not quite as challenging as northern Gerogia, but it's got its moments.

Little Bear, that 17 mile loop you were talking about on page one of this thread (lol, yeah, I read the whole thing) is really nice. I assume you're talking about Adams Gap --> Chinabee --> Turnipseed. That's actually the first backpacking trip I ever did, and I've done it several times since then. The part from Chinabee to Turnipseed is my favorite as you often parallel Cheaha Creek and pass by several really nice swimming holes.

My take on it is that the Pinhoti trail is a nice trail in its own right. It deserves attention, care, and hikers! I don't care to see it made into an extension of the AT, but if it did become one someday down the road I wouldn't kick and scream too much.

Anyway, I'm sure the Birmingham Chamber of Commerce is happy. Whether they're successful at getting an official extension or not, they've generated a noticeable amount of press with this campaign, and have gotten the hiking community talking, and thinking about it. Who knows? Maybe some of you will plan trips to check this trail out? It's worth a look if you ask me...

[MOWGLI]

I've kind of grown up on the Pinhoti trail since it's so close. I did the whole thing (Alabama and Georgia) 6 years ago as a warm up for some hiking out west. I've also done the southern sections of the AL trail multiple times. The trail's got potential, for sure. The southern part (oldest, most established part) is where most of the shelters are, but it's not like shelters are make or break for the trail. It's not quite as challenging as northern Gerogia, but it's got its moments.

Little Bear, that 17 mile loop you were talking about on page one of this thread (lol, yeah, I read the whole thing) is really nice. I assume you're talking about Adams Gap --> Chinabee --> Turnipseed. That's actually the first backpacking trip I ever did, and I've done it several times since then. The part from Chinabee to Turnipseed is my favorite as you often parallel Cheaha Creek and pass by several really nice swimming holes.

My take on it is that the Pinhoti trail is a nice trail in its own right. It deserves attention, care, and hikers! I don't care to see it made into an extension of the AT, but if it did become one someday down the road I wouldn't kick and scream too much.

Anyway, I'm sure the Birmingham Chamber of Commerce is happy. Whether they're successful at getting an official extension or not, they've generated a noticeable amount of press with this campaign, and have gotten the hiking community talking, and thinking about it. Who knows? Maybe some of you will plan trips to check this trail out? It's worth a look if you ask me...

Hungry Howie??

[sylvan]

Hungry Howie??

How'd you guess? :rolleyes:

By the way, here's an image I took along the Chinabee Silent Trail last weekend. This is an area of Cheaha Creek known as Devils Den, which is a series of 7 small to medium sized (3-10 feet) cascades in close proximity. The locals prize this area for the great swimming. So do I. Unfortunately, in all the years that I have visited this area, this is perhaps the driest I have ever seen it. It's depressingly dry right now.

http://www.sylvanlight.com/photos/317698912_bvkKy-XL.jpg

[MOWGLI]

How'd you guess? :rolleyes:



There's only about one other person on the planet that calls me Little Bear, and that's Sunnie. Do you remember her? Plus, I don't know anyone else named Jeremy from Alabama. ;) Good to hear from ya!

I'll be seeing Sunnie in California next month. She's picking me and my daughter up in San Francisco, hanging for a few days and dropping us off at Yosemite.

Yeah, I'd like to tackle that loop in the fall. It would be good to hike with you. Lets stay in touch.

[Two Speed]

The only real challenging climb for me was out of the Terrapin watershed heading NOBO.Well, maybe you're a stronger hiker than I am. Or maybe I cranked up the daily mileage to compensate.

Care to comment on the effort required to combine the Pinhoti with the AT? Reblazing, publishing new maps, guides and data book, bringing the maintaining clubs into the ATC organization, etc. You may have a better perspective on that than the average.

[MOWGLI]

Care to comment on the effort required to combine the Pinhoti with the AT? Reblazing, publishing new maps, guides and data book, bringing the maintaining clubs into the ATC organization, etc. You may have a better perspective on that than the average.

Nah. It's not gonna happen. Connectivity is enough. Hikers should get out and explore the Pinhoti though. Especially in Alabama and the Cohutta. There is some great trail to be had.

[gubbool]

This is a rather late post for this topic but I want to add my name here for prosperity.

With the help of several friends and fellow geocachers in Alabama, I have thru-hiked from Alabama to Maine. My gratitude to Jim Brown, Steve Deboalts, Nancy Webb, Don Rice, the Gang from PHAH, and many Alabama geocachers.


My trip started with a small plan, $500 dollars and ambition to hike to Damascus for Trail Days after spending six months living at Alabama's Double Oak Mountain State Park. I like to add that info because my continuous 'living in my one-man tent' exceeded 14 months during which that entire period I stayed indoors at a place with lights & running water perhaps a dozen nights.


I started on the Alabama Pinhoti at Bull Gap at Hwy 148, ten miles east of Sylacauga Alabama, on Monday, March 17, 2008.
I hiked the 138 miles through Alabama joining the Georgia Pinhoti and then 142 miles through Georgia.

Near the Tennessee state line, at the end of the Georgia Pinhoti, I joined the Benton MacKaye Trail which I followed northward over 100 miles. Although the entire hike was an adventure, that remote BMT section was the only true adventure because it is mostly poorly marked or completely unmarked and is truly remote wilderness.

On the Benton MacKaye I joined the Appalachian Trail in the southern Great Smoky Mountains near the Fontana Dam
Endless miles and five months later I completed my thru-hike covering a total of 2,530 miles.

In Maine I picked up my bicycle and headed southward pulling my two-wheeled bicycle trailer loaded with the same gear that I had carried from Alabama. The bike and trailer were carried to Maine from Alabama by my friend, Steve; a geocacher better known as OldBoyHiker who hiked 50 miles of the 'Hundred Mile Wilderness" and climbed Mt. Katahdin.

on November 21, 2008, after six weeks and 1,750 miles I returned to the Birmingham.

There are more men that can say that have walked on the moon than can say that they have completed this round trip.


Warren AL-ME '08
aka gubbool

[troglobil]

sounds like a good way to end a hike