View Full Version : White Blaze book
Just Jack
06-20-2008, 14:30
Just an idea that I'm throwing out--there is a huge amount of information here on
White Blaze. Would anybody have the writing or editorial ability to consollidate these
posts into a book? It might be possible to get it all in in one book. However, it would probably take several books devoted to: Hiking the AT, Food, Gear, Helpful Hints, etc.
Maybe these would be chapter headings rather than seperate books. I can see an individual doing the project and paying a royalty to White Blaze. I can see White Blaze
taking on the project and keeping all the money. Might make a lot of questiions easier to
answer--see book so and so --or read chapter so and so. A revised edition or supplement could be done on a regular basis. It would save a lot of hunting through old threads if something like this was available. I know I would put a book like this in my pack.
Jack Tarlin
06-20-2008, 15:04
Bad idea. Many of the posters here have made it very clear that they DON'T want their posts used for commercial purposes; plus, when the website changed hands several years ago, the original owner was promised that the Website would re-main non-commercial.
People contribute material here and share information with others out of kindness, and in order to help them. I think a lot of folks would not approve of the material on this website being sold for cash money.
Hey, use all of my words you want . . . at $100 per letter! :D I promise to use the proceeds for gas money for hiking trips! :eek: :p
On a serious note, I agree with JT . . . nice thought, but don't go there!
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-20-2008, 15:22
Bad idea. Many of the posters here have made it very clear that they DON'T want their posts used for commercial purposes; plus, when the website changed hands several years ago, the original owner was promised that the Website would re-main non-commercial.
People contribute material here and share information with others out of kindness, and in order to help them. I think a lot of folks would not approve of the material on this website being sold for cash money.Excellent post
Just Jack
06-20-2008, 16:26
Didn't know about prior arrangements. Basic idea was to find a way to make
White Blaze more self sufficient. I didn't envision making a crowd of money on
the book--basically cover expenses. I had no idea of doing this myself.
Once you put an idea in the public domain--here on White Blaze--I don't know
why there is a problem with organizing those ideas into a book form. I don't
know prior history of white Blaze or publishing law--just trying to suggest a way
to help White Blaze and other hikers.
Sailor (The other one)
06-20-2008, 17:31
Bad idea. Many of the posters here have made it very clear that they DON'T want their posts used for commercial purposes; plus, when the website changed hands several years ago, the original owner was promised that the Website would re-main non-commercial.
People contribute material here and share information with others out of kindness, and in order to help them. I think a lot of folks would not approve of the material on this website being sold for cash money.
I agree.
But I think Rock's articles alone could be the start of an excellent book. If one person decided to use their own stuff for a book, that would be different.
4eyedbuzzard
06-20-2008, 17:44
I can envision some copyright issues, but beyond that, if you read here frequently what you'll really find is that there are as many ways/styles/methods to hike as there are trailheads on the AT. There's really not a lot of consensus - and that's before we get to issues of hammocks, shelters, dogs, guns, and fording the Kennebec.
I agree Sgt. Rock and a few others could probably publish a "How to Hike" book, but it's a small market that's already flooded given its size.
Odd Thomas
06-20-2008, 18:01
Bad idea. Many of the posters here have made it very clear that they DON'T want their posts used for commercial purposes; plus, when the website changed hands several years ago, the original owner was promised that the Website would re-main non-commercial.
People contribute material here and share information with others out of kindness, and in order to help them. I think a lot of folks would not approve of the material on this website being sold for cash money.
These are public posts, why not attribute a public artistic license? Doesn't have to be commercial or exclusive (and shouldn't be). There are plenty of books written already that do this, quoting public forum posts over years of posting history, with no license or copyright problems or responsibilities, and they can still sell the book.
When you post something to a public forum knowing the post will be displayed to anyone who looks at it, you have given that forum shared copyright (the forum itself wouldn't be able to even display your post without it)
I dunno about a book based on the posts per se, but there's another approach, and one that's already been done at least once. And that is to contact the relevant individuals, have them contribute pieces of the final work, and publish that. This book (http://www.amazon.com/301-Inkjet-Tips-Techniques-Photographers/dp/1598632043/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1213999592&sr=8-1) is the example I'm thinking of. It was put together by an active member of a listserv that I was also active in, and features articles and photos by several members... including myself.
Jack Tarlin
06-20-2008, 19:37
Just Jack:
The best way that hikers can help other hikers is to contribute here regularly and answer other people's questions.
There's no need to sell the stuff that presently appears for free, sent here out of the goodness of people's hearts.
And Thomas, the fact that websites may own copyrights to the stuff that appears on their sites doesn't mean that they have carte blanche to put this stuff in a book and sell it for personal profit.
Could they legally do this? Probably, I'm not a lawyer. Ethically, on a site like this one, it'd be a pretty wretched thing to do, unless the original authors gave their blessing (which hundreds of them would NOT do), and I'm confident that none of the good folks who run this site would ever contemplate doing such a sketchy thing.
Oh, and if they did, it'd be the end of the website, and that'd be a damned shame.
But the bottom line is that this website was never meant to be used for commercial money-making purposes; this was the promise made to the original owner when the present owners took over the website, and being honorable men, I have no doubt that they plan to keep their promise.
saimyoji
06-20-2008, 21:09
I think a book highlighting some of WB finer moments would be a great read. Forget including helpful info., there are tons of sources for that. But there have been some classic threads/posts over the years. Perhaps selling access to the deleted stuff? :D
I've thought from time to time that it would be nice to have a separate forum here called "Best of WhiteBlaze." Some members could research the WhiteBlaze archives for past threads dealing with "best solo tent," or "fleece vs. synthetic vs. down jackets," or "hostel etiquette" etc. etc. -- topics that come up over and over again. Only particularly informative posts would be included.
Of course, there are lots of potential problems. Maybe the person who researches and edits a "best of" thread on backpacks just happens to have a pronounced bias toward Go Lite packs. Maybe another editor includes only posts from his buddies. And some could get a little huffy wondering why THEIR brilliant posts never make the cut. And to work really well, people would have to commit to re-editing frequently to weed out out-dated posts or to add posts reflecting changes in products or thinking.
But still it's an intriguing idea. And it would all remain right here on-line at WhiteBlaze with nobody charging anyone any money.
Jack Tarlin
06-20-2008, 21:59
A "Best of Whiteblaze" forum, on Whiteblaze.net, is fine, as long as people could comment on what appeared there.
A "Best of Whiteblaze" in book form, sold for profit, is not cool at all.
Note to Map Man: In light of the consistent quality of your posts and contributions here, if this were to ever happen, I think you'd make a great editor of the project!
Just Jack, another problem above and beyond those Jack Tarlin mentioned is that as soon as you commit something like this to paper the information gets dated in a hurry. Some hiking books from the 80s and 90s, for instance, mention gear you can't even get anymore. If you keep it on the net you can theoretically keep updating stuff quickly.
And it has not escaped my attention, Jack Tarlin, that in the course of paying me a very nice compliment you just might have volunteered me for a lot of work! Thanks -- I guess:rolleyes:.
fiddlehead
06-21-2008, 03:19
I would think if it were not so political and legal issues and past promises, etc, it would be one hell of a thick book if done properly.
The beauty of whiteblaze is that it shows you there is no proper way. There are usually many different ways to achieve your goal of hiking. Each chapter would have to try to look at every issue in a 360 deg. realm and cover all opinions.
But of course it looks like it's not going to ever happen and probably best.
One problem i've found on whiteblaze is that when i search for something that i wrote a long time ago, it seems to be gone. I guess it's a problem with bandwidth or hard drive space or something like that. But, if one could possibly search ALL of whiteblaze or ALL thoughout it's history, i think you'd get an even more varied view.
Anyone know why they seem to get trashed after a while and what could possibly be done to correct that problem?
One problem i've found on whiteblaze is that when i search for something that i wrote a long time ago, it seems to be gone. I guess it's a problem with bandwidth or hard drive space or something like that. But, if one could possibly search ALL of whiteblaze or ALL thoughout it's history, i think you'd get an even more varied view.
Anyone know why they seem to get trashed after a while and what could possibly be done to correct that problem?
Any posts that you made in the past on this web site are still there. We have never deleted any post that have been made on this web site since day one that it came online. Unless of course it was an inappropriate post.
Any posts that you made in the past on this web site are still there. We have never deleted any post that have been made on this web site since day one that it came online. Unless of course it was an inappropriate post.
Posts disappear all the time on WB, for all sorts of reasons. All it takes is for some moderator to declare it "inappropriate." This statement is meaningless.
Posts disappear all the time on WB, for all sorts of reasons. All it takes is for some moderator to declare it "inappropriate." This statement is meaningless.
As I said posts do not disappear. We do not delete posts. If they are deemed inappropriate then they are removed from the public eye but they are not physically deleted.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-21-2008, 07:30
Re: searches: The search engine on the site will only allow you to specifically search for post up to one year old. If will, however, return much older results if no time frame is specified. It would be helpful to add a two year search option.
About a book: when this site was gifted to the current owners - Rock and ATTroll - the former owner specifically said the site could not be used for profit in any way. I know this man and he still feels this way. Unless that changes, I do not see any way this site could ethically publish a book for profit, charge fees beyond what is needed to run the site or sell goods or services to generate profits.
About a book: when this site was gifted to the current owners - Rock and ATTroll - the former owner specifically said the site could not be used for profit in any way. I know this man and he still feels this way. Unless that changes, I do not see any way this site could ethically publish a book for profit, charge fees beyond what is needed to run the site or sell goods or services to generate profits.
I continue to stay in contact with the former owner and I have worked out all differences we have had between us and we remain friends. He does not care what we do with the web site any longer. I assure you I have no desire to put a book together from the posts on this web site. I can not speak for Rock, but I believe he feels the same way.
StarLyte
06-21-2008, 08:09
I'm with Jack on this....please don't use the material here for commercial purposes.
Think about how much money could actually be made? Not very much. Hikers will still look for free information on this site regardless of how many books are published anyways.
There's already so much in the commercial and mainstream worlds.
I also think of the hard work that people have contributed to post it here, and to keep it here.
TJ aka Teej
06-21-2008, 10:34
People contribute material here and share information with others out of kindness, and in order to help them.
Ayup. I contribute a bit to the ALDHA Companion, and if/when the info stops being offered for free, my contributions will end. I'm only in this hoping that by sharing a little tip, an experience, or a few hard to find facts, it might help someone in some way.
WB, Rock's Campfire, the at-l, etc have way too many opinions to whittle down into a single themed 'book' anyhoo:
Ultralite! Comfort! MEGA! GAME! Purism! Slackism! Online journals! Stealth hikes! Canoes! Vans! Thrus! Sections! Shelters! Tents! Hammocks! Guns! Bibles! Retro! Techno! Dogs! The Opposite of Dogs! iPods! Guitars! Tincans! PocketRockets!
egad...
Just Jack
06-21-2008, 11:04
Maybe a book isn't the best way to go about what I was thinking. I lilke the idea about starting a "Best of..." forum here on White Blaze. It would be possible to have threads that deal with a llittle bit of everything.
What's punching my button is how many times have you read,"I am a newbie here and what is the best..." You know the questions that get asked about countless other subjects that could be handled by having all the info on that partcular subject in one spot. People could still comment on the question.
Consider also that a lot of info gets "lost" in that the search engine goes back only so far. This thread--Straight foward--is over 100 pages long. A huge amount of reading is required to hopefully find what one is looking for.
At my age, I am still old fashioned to the point that I would rather put a book in my hands. I often find myself computer challenged--and I know--that's my problem.
But the basic question here remains--Is there a better way to make all this information here more readily available?
Ayup. I contribute a bit to the ALDHA Companion, and if/when the info stops being offered for free, my contributions will end. I'm only in this hoping that by sharing a little tip, an experience, or a few hard to find facts, it might help someone in some way.
WB, Rock's Campfire, the at-l, etc have way too many opinions to whittle down into a single themed 'book' anyhoo:
Ultralite! Comfort! MEGA! GAME! Purism! Slackism! Online journals! Stealth hikes! Canoes! Vans! Thrus! Sections! Shelters! Tents! Hammocks! Guns! Bibles! Retro! Techno! Dogs! The Opposite of Dogs! iPods! Guitars! Tincans! PocketRockets!
egad...
TJ
You hit the nail on the head. There is no way to even put a book together that would touch on what everyone wants. Everyone has there own hiking styles and gear. There are purist, ultralight, thenters, hammockers, blue blazers, yellow blazers, speed hikers, slow hikers, non shelter users and need I go on.
I've learned at least as much by accident as I have on purpose using the search function.
Re: searches: The search engine on the site will only allow you to specifically search for post up to one year old. If will, however, return much older results if no time frame is specified. It would be helpful to add a two year search option.
I changed this once before in the past for more results when you mentioned it and I thought it was fine because I never heard back from you. The search results were set to give you 1,000 results for your search. I just changed it to 10,000 search results. That should be plenty. The higher you raise the value the more server resources it will use. I tried it on the word "whiteblaze" and it went all the way back to Oct 2002. This should be fine now. If you find it is not please let me know.
warraghiyagey
06-21-2008, 22:39
I think a book highlighting some of WB finer moments would be a great read. Forget including helpful info., there are tons of sources for that. But there have been some classic threads/posts over the years. Perhaps selling access to the deleted stuff? :D
i think the warraghy thread would hit the NY Times bestseller list. maybe we're crazy with 11,000+ posts but who are all the lurkers reading this drivel??? :sun
Jack Tarlin
06-21-2008, 22:45
Don't get a swollen head. It's probably the same eleven guys who've checked the thread a thousand times each. :rolleyes:
I've learned at least as much by accident as I have on purpose using the search function.When you get older, you can learn even more because you forget stuff and when people repeat it in a duplicate thread ... it's brand new to you!
Life is good.
Bulldawg
06-22-2008, 00:24
I do think LW's posts would make a nice book. And then maybe a Jack vs. Warren book. Now that's good reading right there, I don't care who ya are!
vonfrick
06-22-2008, 02:02
i think the warraghy thread would hit the NY Times bestseller list. maybe we're crazy with 11,000+ posts but who are all the lurkers reading this drivel??? :sun
Don't get a swollen head. It's probably the same eleven guys who've checked the thread a thousand times each. :rolleyes:
actually i wrote the above, logged in on his account.
i assure you, guy #8, your secret is safe with me.
stacy324
06-22-2008, 07:55
In this thread there are several mentions of the former owner of WB, but no name. Is there a reason no name is given? Just curious …..
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-22-2008, 08:16
In this thread there are several mentions of the former owner of WB, but no name. Is there a reason no name is given? Just curious …..His name is Dave Beilman and he had an account here under the name 'Former Admin' at one time.
I do think LW's posts would make a nice book. And then maybe a Jack vs. Warren book. Now that's good reading right there, I don't care who ya are!
Ya think? If you take away the posts that say "shelters suck," you're left with about half of the 17 thousand. ;)
StarLyte
06-22-2008, 09:11
......"What's punching my button is how many times have you read,"I am a newbie here and what is the best..."
You are correct....and one always wants to reach out and share the knowledge or ideas :sun
Good thread Just Jack.
You are correct....and one always wants to reach out and share the knowledge or ideas :sun
Good thread Just Jack.
The WB book is intriguing -- but there really are lots of great books and online resources nowadays, particularly for beginners.
Now, one angle that could make a WB book unique is to highlight the tremendous diversity among hikers -- their hiking styles, attitudes, gear choices, etc. Pick almost any topic and you'll get a surprising range of opinion.
StarLyte
06-22-2008, 09:43
The WB book is intriguing -- but there really are lots of great books and online resources nowadays, particularly beginners.
Now, one angle that could make a WB book unique is to highlight the tremendous diversity among hikers -- their hiking styles, attitudes, gear choices, etc. Pick almost any topic and you'll get a surprising range of opinion.
Terrapin can you imagine the possibilities ? Wow!
One thing for sure...we are a diverse community.
Terrapin can you imagine the possibilities ? Wow!
Hehe. Before arriving at WB, I never imagined there could be such... umm... passionate opinions about how to ford the Kennebec. Or that shelters suck.
One thing for sure...we are a diverse community.
That's true, but in some ways it's not diverse enough. There's a lot of group-think here, and a tendency to drown out minority opinions.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-22-2008, 10:05
OK, I'll agree with the book if the it contains full size color pics of a hammocker throwing a free-standing tent off a cliff, a tenter cutting down a hammock with a backpacking knife, someone who looks a lot like LW setting fire to a shelter, a pic of some guys in the Kennebec canoe trying to drown a fording hiker with a second pic of a fording hiker tipping over the canoe, and a portrait of MS and Wolf-23000 comparing gear on a shelter picnic table. Oh, the front cover has to have Jack and Warren arm-wrestling.
In this thread there are several mentions of the former owner of WB, but no name. Is there a reason no name is given? Just curious …..
We were not trying to hide his identity. I will not release his real name for privacy reasons. His username here was Easyhiker and then several others after that. He still comes to the site under another username now. He started the site in Sep 2002 and ran it for about two months and tirned it over to us because of personal issues he had to take care of.
max patch
06-22-2008, 12:45
That's true, but in some ways it's not diverse enough. There's a lot of group-think here, and a tendency to drown out minority opinions.
Thats probably the smartest comment made on this thread thus far.
For example, anytime MS and WD say ANYTHING you can count on them being ridiculed by a fair number of WBers. They could say the sun was going to set in the west tonight and within minutes someone would call them an a-hole. Or worse.
Jack Tarlin
06-22-2008, 12:47
Maybe it's because they keep addressing the same subjects, and keep saying the same things....... :D
Um, that was a joke, Max, in case you missed it.
Just Jack
06-22-2008, 13:00
Howdy attroll--thanks for increasing the search engine. As has been pointed out here,
there is a great diversity of opinion on what is ," The best ......etc, etc, etc." I thought it
would be easier to organize al the differences into a book form. It is easy for me to suggest when I don't have the skills to pull it off. I do wish that the powers that be give
consideration to creating some, "The best of ... " forums to hopefully make the search
easier. Just saying--there is going to be more hikers --which means more members--which means more posts--which means more "stuff" to keep up with --which generally means getting better organized to better serve the WB community. I don't know what is the best way to put out all of the info collected here but I am amazed and
apprreciative of the work that is done here. Thank you very much.
While I agree the book idea is intriguing, I think the article section could be expanded to cover the often repeated advice. A book of this nature can become outdated quickly as things change. Then you get into the whole annual revision thing AND you would still have folks coming here for advice because they don't want to buy the book or even know it exists. I can't picture someone asking a question and then getting a response, "buy the book". Answering with a link to the article that covers the topic is much simpler, like what often happens when someone asks a resupply question and people point to Jack's article, for example.
Perhaps there is a way of presenting the articles section as a starting point for asking questions. That way people could read what's out there before asking a question. As it is now, everyone goes right to the forums and asks away. That will not change if a book comes out.
saimyoji
06-22-2008, 17:12
His name is Dave Beilman and he had an account here under the name 'Former Admin' at one time.
We were not trying to hide his identity. I will not release his real name for privacy reasons. His username here was Easyhiker and then several others after that. He still comes to the site under another username now. He started the site in Sep 2002 and ran it for about two months and tirned it over to us because of personal issues he had to take care of.
OOOOppsssss........
Jack Tarlin
06-22-2008, 17:17
Um, Saim, if you had any respect for the guy, and for Troll who was trying to do the right thing,why did you post that just now? I mean what was the point? Do you get off doing incosiderate jackas stuff like this? Do you think it's funny,or that doing stuff like this makes you look good?
Think again.
saimyoji
06-22-2008, 17:44
Um, Saim, if you had any respect for the guy, and for Troll who was trying to do the right thing,why did you post that just now? I mean what was the point? Do you get off doing incosiderate jackas stuff like this? Do you think it's funny,or that doing stuff like this makes you look good?
Think again.
Point was to point out that Dino had already betrayed?? Dave's real name. Nothing but the utmost for Troll. Guess I'm just an inconsiderate jackass. But you don't really care what I think...do ya? :D (bait)
saimyoji
06-22-2008, 17:45
OOOOppsssss........
Um, Saim, if you had any respect for the guy, and for Troll who was trying to do the right thing,why did you post that just now? I mean what was the point? Do you get off doing incosiderate jackas stuff like this? Do you think it's funny,or that doing stuff like this makes you look good?
Think again.
Point was to point out that Dino had already betrayed?? Dave's real name. Nothing but the utmost for Troll. Guess I'm just an inconsiderate jackass. But you don't really care what I think...do ya? :D (bait)
I'm color blind. Delete this pointless waste of space.
Jack Tarlin
06-22-2008, 17:47
No bait, no problem.
All I'm saying is that some people here want to remain anonymous. Sometimes it's cuz they say stuff they're too chicken**** to put their real names on. Sometimes, they just wanna be anonymous for any number of reasons. In cases like this, I'm inclined to respect their wishes, that's all.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
06-22-2008, 19:05
Sorry if I wasn't supposed to tell who the former owner is. Remove it and references if it isn't supposed to be there. I wasn't aware Easyhiker has a problem with this as he has put his full name on this and other sites he has owned.
Sorry if I wasn't supposed to tell who the former owner is. Remove it and references if it isn't supposed to be there. I wasn't aware Easyhiker has a problem with this as he has put his full name on this and other sites he has owned.
No I did not see it as a problem actually. I don't think Dave would mind but I could be wrong. I did not post that to put you on the spot and I am sorry if I did. Here are my thoughts on this.
I have just made it a habit never to post peoples real name unless they tell me it is ok to do so. I just always looked at it as a privacy thing. It is just like posting peoples email addresses. They would not want you giving that out.
Howdy attroll--thanks for increasing the search engine. As has been pointed out here, there is a great diversity of opinion on what is ," The best ......etc, etc, etc." I thought it would be easier to organize al the differences into a book form. It is easy for me to suggest when I don't have the skills to pull it off. I do wish that the powers that be give consideration to creating some, "The best of ... " forums to hopefully make the search easier. Just saying--there is going to be more hikers --which means more members--which means more posts--which means more "stuff" to keep up with --which generally means getting better organized to better serve the WB community. I don't know what is the best way to put out all of the info collected here but I am amazed and apprreciative of the work that is done here. Thank you very much.
It would be nice to combine a listing of all the threads that are useful to everyone in one posting. It would also be nice if you could keep people on topic because there are a lot of threads that start out as good informational postings and turn into some useless bickering. I would like to create a listing and do this but it is kind of embarassing when some of the threads that would be listed turn into something useless a page or two into the thread.
While I agree the book idea is intriguing, I think the article section could be expanded to cover the often repeated advice.
You are absolutely right. The article section has a lot of room for expansion. We would love to get more articles to add to the articles section. However we can not do everything. We would love for people to submit more articles.
No I did not see it as a problem actually. I don't think Dave would mind but I could be wrong. .
Dave probably couldn't care less if anyone knows his name. He wrote me on my birthday and said he was a new father and was going to send some pictures. He forgot. Sharp as ever! :D
fiddlehead
06-22-2008, 23:15
Another problem with a book is that things change fast sometimes and that's the beauty of whiteblaze.
I come here to see new ideas, gear, ideas, trails, hikers having found new places to hike and send back recommendations or reviews, etc.
You couldn't do that in a book as it would need to be revised every year or something and it would have to be huge and ................well, isn't it so much easier to just come to a (free) website, and search for whatever you want? (and now that the searches go back to the beginning, it's all there isn't it?)
Why buy a book that can't tell you half of what this website can?
Another problem with a book is that things change fast sometimes and that's the beauty of whiteblaze.
I come here to see new ideas, gear, ideas, trails, hikers having found new places to hike and send back recommendations or reviews, etc.
You couldn't do that in a book as it would need to be revised every year or something and it would have to be huge and ................well, isn't it so much easier to just come to a (free) website, and search for whatever you want? (and now that the searches go back to the beginning, it's all there isn't it?)
Why buy a book that can't tell you half of what this website can?
Searchable content is much better than hard copy. Now if we could only automate the search engine to sort the wheat from the chafe. :)
fiddlehead
06-23-2008, 00:59
Yeah, i agree. When some of these opponents start arguing, I really don't understand sometimes why they don't just PM each other rather than force us to read through their personal problems.
I've done that a few times and found that it doesn't create the same anger i feel and oftentimes the other person relents a bit and you find that you see eye to eye on many things. But then, perhaps whiteblaze would be boring for us who tend to log in quite often.
Wading through all the obviously personally motivated picking and arguing that goes on between the same handful of people on almost every thread would take ages... I love you guys though...