Please help with gear lsit

[mark.k.watson]

My wife and I are planning a March 2009 NOBO section starting at Springer.
Here is a first draft of our packing list.
Only my gear is weighed so far. Obviously se will be able to carry some gear and food, but for the start I would be carrying 37 pounds. Please help me weed out the unnecessary items.



1. Pack Group: Mark Heidi
1 Backpack – 85 XX
1 Pack cover – 4.8 4.8
Total 89.8 XX ounces
2. Shelter Group:
1 Tent REI quarter Dome T2 w/ tyvek footprint 91.9 00
Total………………………………...........….. 91.9 ounces
3. Sleeping Group:
1 bag, 20F North Face Cats Meow 55 55
1 plastic bag .1 .1
1 closed cell foam pad 10 XX
Total…………………………………............ 65.1 ounces
4. Kitchen Group:
1 Fuel canister full 14 XX
1 MSR pocket rocket stove 3.8 XX
1 pot, pot holder, foil wind screen 12.6 XX
1 lighter 0.6 XX
2 nalgene, total weight 13 13
1 water filter 18.4 XX May go with iodine tabs or Aquamira
1 food bag w/ bear-mouse rope 3 XX
1 plastic spoon 0.3 .3
Total………………………………...............….. 25.7
5. Hygiene Group:
1 small pack towel 1 XX
1 bottle hand cleaner – 1 ounce 1.3 1.3
2 small zip lock 0.3 XX
1 partial roll toilet paper 2 XX
1 small toothbrush w/ paste 2.5 2.5
1 glasses w/ case 2.5 XX
1 Camp soap 2.7 XX
Total…………………………………...............… 11.3
6. Navigation Group:
1 map (average weight) 2.9 XX
1 compass 1.3 1.3
1 trail guide (pages of the section) 3 XX
1 small light 1.8 XX
1 small bundle of paper 3 XX
1 pen 0.5 XX
1 inhaler .8 XX
Total…………………………………................ 13.3
7. Repair/First Aid Group:
1 Repair kit 2 XX
1 small roll of duct tape 3 XX
1 First Aid kit 2 XX
1 set spare batteries 1.8 XX
1 emergency fire starter pack 0.5 XX
Total 9.3 XX
8. Luxury items:
1 tripod 1.8 XX
1 camera 5.4 5.4
Total…………………………………............. 7.2
9. Rain Gear:
1 rain jacket 11.5 XX
1 pair rain pants 6.5 6.5
Total…………………………………............ 18.7
Total pre clothing and consumables 332.3 XX
(20.8 lbs) (XX)
10. Clothing – In Pack, Warm Weather:
2 spare pair socks 6 6
1 spare shirt 5 XX
1 spare pair underwear 2 XX
Total………………………………............…… 13

11. Clothing – In Pack, Cool Weather:
1 light thermal top 5.8 XX
1 polypro 10 XX
1 light thermal pant 5 XX
1 fleece hat 2.4 XX
1 pair fleece gloves 1 XX
2 pair warm socks 6 XX
Total………………………………..........……. 30.2
12. Clothing – In Pack, Colder Weather:
1 light thermal top 5.8 XX
1 polypro 10 XX
1 fleece jacket 22.4 XX
1 light thermal pant 5 XX
1 neck gaiter 2.5 XX
1 fleece hat 2.4 XX
1 pair fleece gloves 1 XX
2 pair warm socks 6 XX
Total………………………………..........……. 55.1
13. Clothing Worn, and Items Carried:
1 pair shoes 32.4 XX
1 pair socks 3 XX
1 t-shirt 5 XX
1 pair underwear 2 XX
1 pair light running shorts 3.7 XX
1 ball cap 2.5 XX
1 backpacker wallet with ID and cash 2.7 XX
1 small pocket knife 1.7 XX
1 watch 1.3 XX
1 pair trekking poles with rubber tips 18 XX
Total……………………………………....... 72.3
14. Consumables:
2 ounce fuel per day x 5 days @ .82 ounces per fluid ounce….. 8.2 ounces
32 ounces water @ 1.04 ounces per fluid ounce……………. 33.3 ounces
32 ounces food per day x 5 days…………………………......... 160 ounces
Total 201.5 ounces
1. Pack Group………………………...........……….. 89.8 ounces
2. Shelter Group……………………..........……….. 91.9 ounces
3. Sleeping Group…………………................... 65.1 ounces
4. Kitchen Group……………………............……. 25.7 ounces
5. Hygiene Group…………………….................. 11.3 ounces
6. Navigation Group……………….........……….. 13.3 ounces
7. First Aid Repair Group………….......………... 9.3 ounces
8. Luxury Items………………………….…........... 7.2 ounces
9. Rain Gear………………………….................. 18.7 ounces
10. Clothing in Pack – Warm Weather……..13 ounces
Total Dry pack Weight (Warm Weather)...345.3 ounces (21.6 pounds) + 201.5 ounces (consumables) = 34.2 pounds.
11. Clothing in Pack – Cool Weather……….30.2 ounces
Total Dry pack Weight (Cool Weather)...362.5 ounces (22.7 pounds) + 201.5 ounces (consumables) = 35.3 pounds.
12. Clothing in Pack – Colder Weather…..…55.1 ounces
Total Dry pack Weight (Colder Weather)...387.4 ounces (24.2 pounds) + 201.5 ounces (consumables) = 37 pounds.

[mountain squid]

Very thorough. Looks good. Some observations:

switch out Nalgenes for water bladder with drinking tube
something else to hold some water
camp footwear
needle for draining blisters
sunscreen
ear plugs
depending on the length of your section, 1 map may not be enough
go with AquaMira
3 pr socks is probably enough - always keep one pr dry
thermal pants may be unneccesay - if cold in camp, get in sleeping bag
if no cell phone, a phone card and important phone #s
whistle

If you want to lighten up otherwise, research backpacks, tents and sleeping bags.

See you on the trail,
mt squid

[Appalachian Tater]

To me your backpack, sleeping bag, and tent all look heavy, like Mt. Squid points out; you could easily cut pounds there. You could look at tarptents, 800-fill down bags, and lighter packs. But it looks pretty well-thought out, and if you're doing a NOBO from Springer, you have the advantage of being able to fine-tune at Neels Gap.

[Mercy]

Are you sure you listed the right weight for the Cat's Meow? TNF lists the guys long as 46oz...

[Appalachian Tater]

Are you sure you listed the right weight for the Cat's Meow? TNF lists the guys long as 46oz...
Some manufacturers typically understate weights. For me that means I won't purchase from them unless it is a difference explained by manufacturing margin of error, say the amount of down in a sleeping bag. Lying about the weight of a pot or something means the manufacturer is NOT to be trusted. The best manufacturers specify the weight of a in item such as a jacket by stating the size and the margin of error will be to overstate the weight so that it is in the consumer's favor.

[mark.k.watson]

Right on guys. Keep the suggestions coming.
Tater, I would like to stay away from down bags even though they are lighter.
I have considered Osprey packs but have no gear store that carries them nearby to sample them.
The tarptent suggestion is a good one. I looked at a site that carries them and they seem good. Any experiances or other suggestions?
Mercy, the bag is a woman's bag and is 55 oz. Thanks for checking though. 46 sounds much better.
Thanks for all the help.

[hopefulhiker]

I would definetly check out the light weight forums. What is the weight of your big four""

With five days of food and two litres of water my start weght was about 33 lb... Later in warmer weather I cut it by another five pounds.
The light weight gear may seem pricey but if you prorate it over the time you will spend using it, it is worth it.

I would consider the silnylon single wall tents like those from tarptent or six moon designs...
About half the thru hikers use the Granite Gear Vapor Trail or some variation.. or the ULA.

I would look at a silk liner, and light weight down sleeping bags..

I used Aqua Mira and had no problerm

I only had one T shirt and one pair of shorts during warm weather.

Check out Frog Toggs for rain gear

Patagonia makes good base layers.

I like the Pocket Rocket.. and for two people it makes sense but carry an extra cylinder..

Also carry some soda bottles or a platypus.

[Appalachian Tater]

Tater, I would like to stay away from down bags even though they are lighter.
I understand, a lot of people start out feeling that way, but all of the reasons you read for that are false. It's easy to keep a sleeping bag dry, a wet artificial fill bag isn't much better than a wet down bag for protection, and the material they're made out of these days is pretty much waterproof. I can hold my Marmot down bags in the shower and the water rolls right off--that's the first thing I did when I got my first one home. If you hold it underwater water would of course eventually soak in. If you have other objections to a down bag, post them.

[Appalachian Tater]

Right on guys. Keep the suggestions coming.
Tater, I would like to stay away from down bags even though they are lighter.
I have considered Osprey packs but have no gear store that carries them nearby to sample them.
The tarptent suggestion is a good one. I looked at a site that carries them and they seem good. Any experiances or other suggestions?
Mercy, the bag is a woman's bag and is 55 oz. Thanks for checking though. 46 sounds much better.
Thanks for all the help.Rainbow Double model Henry Shires Tarptent and checked the used gear for sale forums here.

Order an Osprey pack from a retailer that accepts returns if you are interested in them, a lot of thrus use them, I hiked with someone who had one and it was a good bag, the moldable hip belt isn't just a gimmick.

[jesse]

how many days / miles do you plan to hike?

[River Runner]

You don't need anywhere near 2.7 oz of camp soap. Repackage into a smaller dropper bottle and only use 1-2 drops per use. Less than 1/2 ounce should do.

An ounce of paper and an ounce of duct tape would also probably be ample.

Also, something is wrong if your light weighs 1.8 oz and the spare batteries weigh the same.

You could consider taking a photon and a spare pair of batteries for it, at under a half ounce for the light & spare batteries, instead of the heavier light & batteries.

[Wags]

question about your clothes in pack. you list 'light thermal top/bottom" as clothing in pack during colder weather. will those be for camp clothes? the thermals + polypros both 'in pack' seem unnecessary to me. if it gets really cold at night you can always build a fire or just bunker down in your +20's

you could ditch the hand soap and just use the hand sanitizer - savings 2.7 oz

cedar tree's "the packa" would definitely save you weight and room in pack - i have yet to see any negative feedback about his gear. www.thepacka.com (http://www.thepacka.com) - savings 10 oz

[Blissful]

Looking good. You can trim in ounces that make pounds now.
Aqua mira definitely
Pretty heavy pack (?)
DON'T use a foil wind screen with a pocket rocket!
Use lexan spoon, plastic will melt. Make sure to have a pot cozy which saves fuel.
Get rid of batteries. Can pick up in towns.
Get rid of fire starter and repair kit and rubber tips for poles. No need. Duct tape will usually suffice. Needle and dental floss for emergecy sewing if needed, but I never had to.
Rain pants to start then ditch. Aslo ditch gloves later on. Keep hat.
Neck gaiter really optional. I only needed to use mine twice. So probably not needed.
Won't be wearing shorts to start (it can get cold). Suggest convertible pants.

When I hiked with my son, I carried the tent poles, the tyvek, the cooking set, and dinners.

[rafe]

Right on guys. Keep the suggestions coming.
Tater, I would like to stay away from down bags even though they are lighter.
I have considered Osprey packs but have no gear store that carries them nearby to sample them.
The tarptent suggestion is a good one. I looked at a site that carries them and they seem good. Any experiances or other suggestions?
Mercy, the bag is a woman's bag and is 55 oz. Thanks for checking though. 46 sounds much better.
Thanks for all the help.

1. Down bags. With a bit of care, they're great. I haven't used anything but down bags for the last 30 yrs of camping. And all of the down bags I own (four now) are still quite usable. In 30 yrs. time I've never had to sleep in a wet bag.

2. Tarptent: as good as you'll get in a single-walled tent. Single-walled tents have certain disadvantages, though not insurmountable by any means. I have personal experience (generally favorable) with a Tarptent Rainbow. (The customer service can't be beat.)

3. Packs: Check out Granite Gear and ULA. I'd recommend the Granite Gear Nimbus Ozone as a nice "transition" pack for someone that's in the process of lightening their gear load. There are better (lighter) packs to choose from once you've achieved true Gram Weenie status.

[The Weasel]

Mark, as noted, you really are way, way, heavy on everything. Please don't take the comments as people being negative, but as people being helpful. Doing a NOBO isn't a chance to use toys - that's a fun thing for short hikes on a weekend and we all love it - but a time when you are covering miles. Weight just slows you down, and you don't need this stuff.

There's a thread I started yesterday about "Billy Goat", who has sone the AT, PCT, CDT and more for a total of 30,000 miles and some. It's in "General" forums here. He carries 10 lbs of gear, plus food and water. TEN POUNDS. And he has no problems (and he's 69 years old) so maybe he's on to something.

Get your pack down to under 20, and you'll see the difference. I'm currently around 13. It's the difference between misery and success.

TW

[Mercy]

Mark,

My Wm's Cat's Meow weighs in at 45 ... though the listed weight is 43.

I just wondered about your listed weight, wondering whether you were including other things, ie compression sack. I stuff my bag into a trash compactor bag, leaving the compression sack.

I also have a lighter weight down bag... and boy is it lighter weight! I can't believe the difference in pack volume!

I'd have bought down in the first place, except I canoe a lot....

Mercy

[Bearpaw88]

5. Hygiene Group:
1 small pack towel 1 XX
1 bottle hand cleaner – 1 ounce 1.3 1.

If you have camp soap you don't need hand cleaner. I would go with one or the other. Some would argue you don't need either. I'd loose the pack towel too. Everyone I met with one this year never used it, and ended up sending it home. I also agree with getting rid of the batteries and E-fire starter, and wrap the duct take around your poles; no need to carry a roll.
Best Luck on your hike!

[Odd Thomas]

If you have camp soap you don't need hand cleaner. I would go with one or the other. Some would argue you don't need either.

Something to consider, if you get poison ivy, you're really going to wish you had soap. :)

[Bearpaw88]

Something to consider, if you get poison ivy, you're really going to wish you had soap. :)

At least for me, hand cleaner works better at removing poison ivy oils because of the alcohol content. Either one will work to get off the oils.

[River Runner]

Interesting that some suggest ditching emergency fire starter. Of course, the southern part of the AT doesn't really have any large walk-through creek crossings, but I found my fire starter came in very handy on a soggy hike after a high creek crossing near the end of the day chilled several of our group.

A very light fire starter that is multi-use is a small container of vaseline and a few 100% cotton balls. This seems to work as well as or better than anything else I've ever seen.

[quasarr]

another excellent fire starter is dryer lint. You can do the same thing and rub vaseline in it and they burn like crazy - a bit hard to light though. I put a layer of dry lint on top of the vaseline/lint ball so it lights better.

If you make fireballs with vaseline then do it ahead of time, it's very messy and would be a pain to clean up in the woods!!

[take-a-knee]

Interesting that some suggest ditching emergency fire starter. Of course, the southern part of the AT doesn't really have any large walk-through creek crossings, but I found my fire starter came in very handy on a soggy hike after a high creek crossing near the end of the day chilled several of our group.

A very light fire starter that is multi-use is a small container of vaseline and a few 100% cotton balls. This seems to work as well as or better than anything else I've ever seen.

I've had better luck with hand sanitizer than vaseline. Esbit is better yet.

[River Runner]

Esbit is better yet.

Funny, I have a hard time getting Esbit lit. The key with the Vaseline fire starters is to fluff them out so there is a lot of air space too.

Like quassar says, dryer lint works well, but then you lose the multi-use aspect. If the vaseline is on a clean cotton ball or in a little container, it can also be used as lip balm, for chafing, big bites, etc. If it's in a little container, a clean cotton ball can be dipped in it and used right away without a lot of mess. The cotton ball does not have to be totally saturated to work well.

[quasarr]

also I suggest getting some waterproof matches for emergencies if you don't have them already.

I'd say keep your fire kit. Hardly weighs anything and can be a lifesaver in an emergency.

[Wise Old Owl]

Well I thought I needed to reply, but everyone here has it covered! 4 socks no more, Rain pants nooo. no tripod, put a screw in the walkin stick. long spork no spoon. etc...

[double d]

Great lists and even better comments. I would add more viplock bags, it seems I can never have enough of them. Also (I think it was already written, but what the heck), you will not need the footprint.

[rafe]

PS, I highly recommend this book (http://www.allbookstores.com/book/9780762737345/Mike_Clelland/Lighten_Up%21.html) for great tips on lightening up. Great illustrations and sense of humor.

[Lilred]

Right on guys. Keep the suggestions coming.
Tater, I would like to stay away from down bags even though they are lighter.
Thanks for all the help.


I line my stuff sac for my bag with a turkey roasting bag. Very durable, and will keep your bag dry. Campmor sells a 20 degree down bag for around $100. Many people on here, including myself, use this bag and have nothing but good things to say about it. It'll shed about a pound and a half off your weight.

[jesse]

Well I thought I needed to reply, but everyone here has it covered! 4 socks no more, Rain pants nooo. no tripod, put a screw in the walkin stick. long spork no spoon. etc...

I'd keep the spoon. Sporks are over rated IMO. I paid less than $2 for one of those lexen spoons at REI (one of the few things I have purchased there), after my plastic spoon I got from Wendy's broke.

[Appalachian Tater]

I'd keep the spoon. Sporks are over rated IMO. I paid less than $2 for one of those lexen spoons at REI (one of the few things I have purchased there), after my plastic spoon I got from Wendy's broke.Agree 100%. A spoon is all you need. A spork or foon functions well as neither a fork nor a spoon.