Mama Bear Shot, Cubs left to Starve.

[STEVEM]

The Vernon, NJ Police and New Jersey Division of Fish and Wildlife have reach a new low. Mama bear shot dead and her cubs left in the woods to starve. Check out the last two paragraphs of the attached story. If the bear was tagged in 2003 officials should have known that it was female and would have very likely had cubs. Trigger happy fools.

http://www.strausnews.com/articles/2008/06/26/advertiser_news/news/15.txt

[Appalachian Tater]

In fairness, they didn't get to read the tag until after she was dead. They did try to find the cubs, let's hope they still can. It is absolutely disgusting to shoot bears in the first place, especially just to protect property, in this case a garage door. They should tranquilize and relocate. Absolutely shameful.

[Jack Tarlin]

Um, Tater, read the whole article. The bear was NOT shot "just to protect property." State officials had named the animal a "Category 1 Bear" which means its history of breaking into buildings, (i.e garages adjacent to occupied homes) made it an imminent threat to humans.

If the local authorities had NOT taken strong action here, and if the bear had injured or killed someone, especially a child, the same folks who are presently angry with the police for doing their job would be furious with these same police for NOT doing their job.

With some folks, cops can never win.

So the bear was not killed in order to protect a garage door, OK?

And one last thing: Even if the bear had been drugged and taken miles away, how on earth would this have changed the fate of the cubs? A mother shot dead or a mother taken 50 miles away would have resulted in the same problem (and unfortunately, the same fate) for the cubs.

[Appalachian Tater]

Um, Tater, read the whole article. The bear was NOT shot "just to protect property." State officials had named the animal a "Category 1 Bear" which means its history of breaking into buildings, (i.e garages adjacent to occupied homes) made it an imminent threat to humans.

If the local authorities had NOT taken strong action here, and if the bear had injured or killed someone, especially a child, the same folks who are presently angry with the police for doing their job would be furious with these same police for NOT doing their job.

With some folks, cops can never win.

So the bear was not killed in order to protect a garage door, OK?

And one last thing: Even if the bear had been drugged and taken miles away, how on earth would this have changed the fate of the cubs? A mother shot dead or a mother taken 50 miles away would have resulted in the same problem (and unfortunately, the same fate) for the cubs.There is no excuse for killing the bear. There was no immediate threat to humans, it was trying to get into the garage. Bears do stuff like that.

I suppose if I labeled YOU a "Category 1 Bear" then it would be okay to shoot and kill YOU instead of tranquilizing YOU. And you have been a bit of a bear lately, definitely Category 1, you have threatened to punch Terrapin or Alligator, somebody, I read it but forget who it was.

Nothing changes the fact that the bear should have been tranquilized, not shot dead. Saying that it would have made no difference to the fate of the cubs is irrelevant as that was not known at the time their mother was shot and killed.

Have at it, ridicule me, accuse me of not reading, rant, rave, whatever, I'll stand by this statement because it is right, and you know it, you just can't help being contrary.

Think about the poor little cubs starving or freezing this winter if they're not hit by cars or shot this summer, and try to have a little feeling for other living creatures--would that absolutely kill you?

[Jack Tarlin]

Jesus, lighten up for heaven's sake, Tater.

Nobody ridiculed you.

Re-read my letter.

State officials decided the bear was dangerous, OK? Bears that break into humans are inherently dangerous to people, so for you to say that there was no immediate threat to humans is simply wrong. Of course there was.

And you skipped the end of my letter.....in regards to the "poor little cubs", what would be their fate if, as you wished, their mother was drugged and released miles and miles away from them?

Their fate would be exactly the same.

[Lone Wolf]

There is no excuse for killing the bear. There was no immediate threat to humans, it was trying to get into the garage. Bears do stuff like that.

I suppose if I labeled YOU a "Category 1 Bear" then it would be okay to shoot and kill YOU instead of tranquilizing YOU. And you have been a bit of a bear lately, definitely Category 1, you have threatened to punch Terrapin or Alligator, somebody, I read it but forget who it was.

Nothing changes the fact that the bear should have been tranquilized, not shot dead. Saying that it would have made no difference to the fate of the cubs is irrelevant as that was not known at the time their mother was shot and killed.

Have at it, ridicule me, accuse me of not reading, rant, rave, whatever, I'll stand by this statement because it is right, and you know it, you just can't help being contrary.

Think about the poor little cubs starving or freezing this winter if they're not hit by cars or shot this summer, and try to have a little feeling for other living creatures--would that absolutely kill you?

bambi syndrome

[Jason of the Woods]

Why not relocate it?

[Lone Wolf]

Why not relocate it?

cuz it is too used to humans. it'll be a problem anywhere it goes. i hope they kept the hide and sold the gall bladder to the chinese

[Odd Thomas]

Bears that break into humans [houses?:D] are inherently dangerous to people, so for you to say that there was no immediate threat to humans is simply wrong. Of course there was.

Even a human can be legally shot under those circumstances.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I'm with those who feel this bear was a danger to humans and needed to be put down. Relo'ing bears that have started breaking into dwellings is futile for the reason given by LW -- once a bear has developed those habits, it is likely beyond rehab'ing.

This is why I favor very early implementation of trap and relo policies for bears that start eating from human trash or hanging out at picnic, camp or shelter cites - if their first few experiences with humans involve being caged and taken for a long ride in a cage to a new location, the bears are less likely to repeat the behavior.

I have a friend who lives in the outskirts of Gatlinburg and his property borders the GSMNP. Bears used to get into his trash regularly. He now has an electric fence around his trash. His neighbors still have this problem, but the bears have learned that his garbage isn't a free meal. If all the neighbors had electric fences, the bears would go elsewhere for food. (Electric fences deliver an unpleasant, but not permanently harmful, shock to any critter that touches them. They are commonly used with cattle and horses to keep them from attempting to break down fences. TVA uses them to keep deer and other critters away from nuclear and other sensitive facilities)

[notorius tic]

We due the same thing here in Florida to Gators.. They get to used to being feed bye dumb azz Rednecks an next thing you know there in your kitchen looking fore DINNER...

[kanga]

cuz it is too used to humans. it'll be a problem anywhere it goes. i hope they kept the hide and sold the gall bladder to the chinese

good morning wolf!! i love to laugh with my coffee! thanx!

[take-a-knee]

Why not relocate it?

To the vast wilderness of NJ? Or maybe out to Yellowstone, that wouldn't cost much, would it?

[take-a-knee]

bambi syndrome

Exactly, it ain't like NJ has a shortage of black bears.

[leeki pole]

Bear: "Don't taze me dude, don't taze me!"

Okay, I'll just shoot you then. Boom, out go the lights. Sad, but true.

[Lilred]

There is no excuse for killing the bear. There was no immediate threat to humans, it was trying to get into the garage. Bears do stuff like that.

I suppose if I labeled YOU a "Category 1 Bear" then it would be okay to shoot and kill YOU instead of tranquilizing YOU. And you have been a bit of a bear lately, definitely Category 1, you have threatened to punch Terrapin or Alligator, somebody, I read it but forget who it was.

Nothing changes the fact that the bear should have been tranquilized, not shot dead. Saying that it would have made no difference to the fate of the cubs is irrelevant as that was not known at the time their mother was shot and killed.

Have at it, ridicule me, accuse me of not reading, rant, rave, whatever, I'll stand by this statement because it is right, and you know it, you just can't help being contrary.

Think about the poor little cubs starving or freezing this winter if they're not hit by cars or shot this summer, and try to have a little feeling for other living creatures--would that absolutely kill you?


LOLOL oh good grief. Seems more compassion for wild animals that can rip you apart than the humans that might suffer because of a rogue bear. The cops did the right thing. You're wrong tater.

[Grinder]

Tater,
I swear!! I've never in two years reading this list, ran into anyone whose posts I disagree with as often or as vehemently!!

I finally saw a bear during my section hike in May. He ran from me. This pleased me greatly.

I'm told he ran from me because there is a hunting season for bear in Georgia. Take away the hunting season and you have nuisance bears maurauding camps for food.

I'm sorry bud, but some have to die so that more can live in stealth. When they lose fear, they are in line to lose life.

Grinder

[Lone Wolf]

Tater,
I swear!! I've never in two years reading this list, ran into anyone whose posts I disagree with as often or as vehemently!!

I finally saw a bear during my section hike in May. He ran from me. This pleased me greatly.

I'm told he ran from me because there is a hunting season for bear in Georgia. Take away the hunting season and you have nuisance bears maurauding camps for food.

I'm sorry bud, but some have to die so that more can live in stealth. When they lose fear, they are in line to lose life.

Grinder
wow. you are so common sense. very rare and refreshing here on whiteblaze.

[rickb]

Why not just smack it around a bit?

[notorius tic]

Me an Sloth jumped a big Azz MOTHER in the SNP he got a Great pic she was every bite of 400

[sheepdog]

cuz it is too used to humans. it'll be a problem anywhere it goes. i hope they kept the hide and sold the gall bladder to the chinese
Smoke the meat too. Nice and slow over a hickory or maple wood fire. Pass the bbq sauce.

[weary]

cuz it is too used to humans. it'll be a problem anywhere it goes. i hope they kept the hide and sold the gall bladder to the chinese
Only if the Chinese first agree to cut our trillion dollar national debt to them.

Weary

[rafe]

Only if the Chinese first agree to cut our trillion dollar national debt to them.

Weary

Mind you, that's just the debt owed to the Chinese. The total is about ten times that figure. That's a lot of dead bears.

[weary]

I'm not one of those lucky folks that always seem to see bears in the woods. It's a rare experience for me anyway. But I am having a wild animal problem. I planted my largest garden ever this spring, approximately 60' by 70'. And my wife and I are trying even to keep it reasonably weeded for the first time. I want to be able to eat heartedly of vegetables, at least.

I've been searching out all my canning jars, and cleaning out junk from my freezer in anticipation of winter. I can't solve oil prices by lowering my thermostats. Most stay at 40. One in the living room is allowed to go to 62.

But we do have a lot of sweaters and jackets.

But a problem has arisen. No bears have intruded on my two acres of coastal Maine. But three wood chucks have. And they have destroyed all my sun flower plants for the birds.

Worse still, they are nibbling at my cauliflower, bean and broccoli plants.

My wife frowned when I proposed to shoot the critters. I have no qualms about filling my freezer with game. But I'm not into shooting other critters. know

My question?

[le loupe]

NJ should have a bear hunt, that could relieve some of the interaction between them and humans



(tongue firmly in cheek)

[take-a-knee]

NJ should have a bear hunt, that could relieve some of the interaction between them and humans



(tongue firmly in cheek)

So, you are in favor of bears being hit by volvos but not bullets.

[Jack Tarlin]

To Weary:

Your garden is getting wiped out. You can do nothing, or you can do something.

Or as my good friend Sergeant Rock once told, me there are two kinds of people....those who LET s*** happen, and those who MAKE s*** happen.

You said, that (among other things), your sunflowers, beans, broccoli, and cauliflower were getting pillaged.

1) Get a dog and have him hang out in and near your vegetables.

2) Get a .22, get some practice with it, and start defending your garden.

3) Do nothing, and buy your vegetables at Hannafords.

But really, in that one can't drive five miles in rural Maine without seeing a flattened woodchuck by the side of the road, , the presumptive conclusion is that they're not exactly an endangered species.

Do what you gotta do.

[weary]

To Weary:

Your garden is getting wiped out. You can do nothing, or you can do something.

Or as my good friend Sergeant Rock once told, me there are two kinds of people....those who LET s*** happen, and those who MAKE s*** happen.

You said, that (among other things), your sunflowers, beans, broccoli, and cauliflower were getting pillaged.

1) Get a dog and have him hang out in and near your vegetables.

2) Get a .22, get some practice with it, and start defending your garden.

3) Do nothing, and buy your vegetables at Hannafords.

But really, in that one can't drive five miles in rural Maine without seeing a flattened woodchuck by the side of the road, , the presumptive conclusion is that they're not exactly an endangered species.

Do what you gotta do.
My 30-30 has been moved from the back hall closet, to the corner of the living room. Though it's my guess that the three 2-pound critters won't find it easy to totally destroy every thing. Hmmm. what if I have planted enough for all of us. Does that change the equation?

Weary

[Jack Tarlin]

Geez, guy, if the woodchucks make it all the way to your living room it's probably too late. :D

Best of luck anyway.

[Lilred]

Do snakes eat woodchucks?? I don't know, but if they do, cut up an old hose and lay sections around the garden. Keeps the squirrels out of my gardens, they think they are snakes.

[Odd Thomas]

So, you are in favor of bears being hit by volvos but not bullets.

Hmmm, people get hit by volvos too...;)

[boarstone]

I'm not one of those lucky folks that always seem to see bears in the woods. It's a rare experience for me anyway. But I am having a wild animal problem. I planted my largest garden ever this spring, approximately 60' by 70'. And my wife and I are trying even to keep it reasonably weeded for the first time. I want to be able to eat heartedly of vegetables, at least.

I've been searching out all my canning jars, and cleaning out junk from my freezer in anticipation of winter. I can't solve oil prices by lowering my thermostats. Most stay at 40. One in the living room is allowed to go to 62.

But we do have a lot of sweaters and jackets.

But a problem has arisen. No bears have intruded on my two acres of coastal Maine. But three wood chucks have. And they have destroyed all my sun flower plants for the birds.

Worse still, they are nibbling at my cauliflower, bean and broccoli plants.

My wife frowned when I proposed to shoot the critters. I have no qualms about filling my freezer with game. But I'm not into shooting other critters. know

My question?
Go to this web site NOW! www.sportsmansguide.com (http://www.sportsmansguide.com) and order their large animal trap, on sale for around $30! You can't miss, I trap on my small intown lot up here and to date have had 3 raccoons (relocated) and one skunk...You may get a few local cats, I haven't yet...I have 1 woodchuck who is now adorning the inside of my fireplace...I had him mounted, I call him "chucky"..hahaehehe:banana

[mudhead]

My 30-30 has been moved from the back hall closet, to the corner of the living room. Though it's my guess that the three 2-pound critters won't find it easy to totally destroy every thing. Hmmm. what if I have planted enough for all of us. Does that change the equation?

Weary
Keep the mutt away. They can rip up a dog.

.22LR.

.410.

They will defeat any fence I might build. They will leave you with nothing.

Crows gotta eat, too.

[4eyedbuzzard]

NJ should have a bear hunt, that could relieve some of the interaction between them and humans



(tongue firmly in cheek)


NJ has had bear hunting on and off since 2003 I believe, after some 30 years of no hunting that let black bear populations go from virtually zero to where they were starving in winter. With humans as their only predator, the herd size has to be responsibly managed - not just knee-jerked around by special interests. I heard the 2008 season is again in limbo due to pressure on the Governor from anti-hunting groups.

[weary]

Keep the mutt away. They can rip up a dog.

.22LR.

.410.

They will defeat any fence I might build. They will leave you with nothing.

Crows gotta eat, too.
I've got a .410 around here somewheres, but I haven't seen it in years. I know that proves I'm an irresponsible gun owner. I hate to buy a .22 just for three woodchucks. So I'm going to have to use my deer rifle.

In the past I've eliminated them with exhaust gas and gas bombs. But this year their dens are well hidden in among some multifloral rose briars.

I do have a large trap. What do you use for bait?

Weary

[trailmomma4]

Try broccoli, green beans and cauliflower ;)

[take-a-knee]

Hmmm, people get hit by volvos too...;)

And that isn't very humane either, is it? It is however, neo-Darwinian when grown humans get run over, not so with bears.

[partinj]

I think humans are a imminent threat to bears

[Odd Thomas]

And that isn't very humane either, is it?

Of course not. Shooting people so they don't get hit by cars wouldn't be either though.


It is however, neo-Darwinian when grown humans get run over, not so with bears.

Darwinism only applies to humans?

Things get hit by cars, but that doesn't necessarily mean there's too many of them. Maybe there's too many cars. :p

[Odd Thomas]

cuz it is too used to humans. it'll be a problem anywhere it goes. i hope they kept the hide and sold the gall bladder to the chinese

And overcharge them! Gotta make a dent in the trade deficit somehow!

[rafe]

Maybe there's too many cars. :p

Ya think? ;) $25/gallon gas might fix that.

[Odd Thomas]

Ya think? ;) $25/gallon gas might fix that.

If not we should hunt the cars. :p

I dont have anything against hunting, but bears getting hit by cars doesn't mean there's too many bears, it means the road is in a bad place and maybe too busy. Heck even rare animals get hit by cars.

[Blissful]

Do snakes eat woodchucks?? I don't know, but if they do, cut up an old hose and lay sections around the garden. Keeps the squirrels out of my gardens, they think they are snakes.


Wow that is a great idea. For some reason the squirrels here like to eat my tomatoes. Maybe it will be better this year since we have gotten fairly good rain.

[mudhead]

I've got a .410 around here somewheres, but I haven't seen it in years. I know that proves I'm an irresponsible gun owner. I hate to buy a .22 just for three woodchucks. So I'm going to have to use my deer rifle.

In the past I've eliminated them with exhaust gas and gas bombs. But this year their dens are well hidden in among some multifloral rose briars.

I do have a large trap. What do you use for bait?

Weary

I use an apple half (or slices) for everything. Small pieces outside.

Go find your .410. Make sure no spider nests in the barrel. Easier. Fun way to prune multiflora, too.

[MOWGLI]

Fun way to prune multiflora, too.


Multiflora Rose deserves more than pruning. Try Garlon.

[mudhead]

It is a vile plant. It is a sissy about strong Roundup, or being cut off below the surface with a shovel. Wish it were never introduced.

But the few bees I have love it.

[MOWGLI]

It is a vile plant. It is a sissy about strong Roundup, or being cut off below the surface with a shovel. Wish it were never introduced.

But the few bees I have love it.

Eradicate it with a clear conscious.

[mudhead]

Had some Giant Hogweed here that got away from an old summer estate.

Very pretty plant. Very nasty plant.

Key word is had. No regrets.

[le loupe]

So, you are in favor of bears being hit by volvos but not bullets.

Of course not! I'm all for a bear hunt- but the rest of the Worker's Party residents of this state are not.

And the result- sloppy public destruction of a bear with her cubs left to starve or fend for themselves.

Hmmmm- which is more humane?

[le loupe]

NJ has had bear hunting on and off since 2003 I believe, after some 30 years of no hunting that let black bear populations go from virtually zero to where they were starving in winter. With humans as their only predator, the herd size has to be responsibly managed - not just knee-jerked around by special interests. I heard the 2008 season is again in limbo due to pressure on the Governor from anti-hunting groups.

NJ has had two bear hunts since 2003, with bear incidents continually rising.

I think they want to try passing out bear condoms

[MOWGLI]

With humans as their only predator, the herd size has to be responsibly managed - not just knee-jerked around by special interests.
Bears are not "herd" animals.

[MOWGLI]

Do snakes eat woodchucks??


Last I checked, pythons and anacondas were not indigenous to NJ. :D

[taildragger]

get one of these guys to get rid of the woodchucks

http://belgazou.typepad.com/my_bountiful_diary/images/dscn0036.JPG

[Bob S]

I've got a .410 around here somewheres, but I haven't seen it in years. I know that proves I'm an irresponsible gun owner. I hate to buy a .22 just for three woodchucks. So I'm going to have to use my deer rifle.

In the past I've eliminated them with exhaust gas and gas bombs. But this year their dens are well hidden in among some multifloral rose briars.

I do have a large trap. What do you use for bait?

Weary


You can also shoot 45 Colt handgun ammo in a 410 shotgun. It’s a lot less powerful (being a handgun round) then a 30-30 (being a rifle round) round. The 45 Colt gives you more reach with the gun then a shotgun normally has. People having been doing this for years.

Thompson Center (of Thompson Machine gun fame) makes a handgun that is a 410 / 45 Colt, I have one and it works well.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Bears are not "herd" animals.


You are correct. Would you be happy if I restated it as te bear population must be managed? Either way, if there are too many bears some must be killed.

[4eyedbuzzard]

NJ has had two bear hunts since 2003, with bear incidents continually rising.

I think they want to try passing out bear condoms

Weren't they using or talking about birth control for the deer - something like norplant. It's been 13 years since I escap--er, left NJ. I don't remember the specifics.

[rickb]

My wife frowned when I proposed to shoot the critters. I have no qualms about filling my freezer with game. But I'm not into shooting other critters.

You can go into town for new veggies.

You can't really go into town for a new wife.

I put in an electric fence. I had the most expensive lettuce on the eastern seaboard.

[le loupe]

Weren't they using or talking about birth control for the deer - something like norplant. It's been 13 years since I escap--er, left NJ. I don't remember the specifics.

I can't keep track anymore.

They are taxing (me) the hunter out of the sport, so I'm not sure who is going to pay for birth control or other population control methods.

[rickb]

I can't keep track anymore.

They are taxing (me) the hunter out of the sport, so I'm not sure who is going to pay for birth control or other population control methods.

I always figured culling does would work best, but around here they felt that over population was best handled by shooting the bucks.

[le loupe]

I always figured culling does would work best, but around here they felt that over population was best handled by shooting the bucks.

It does work best if it being handled by a large group of sportsmen taking does. Each doe taken results in potentially 3 deer being removed from the herd (mother and subsequent twin fawns) in year one.

Natural buck to doe ratios are normally 1:1. Even if a marksmen could reduce the ration to 1:7 or even lower the remaining buck can still impregnate all seven does.

John Ozoga, wildlife biologist from Michigan has an awesome book based on his scientific papers from his time with the DNR. Whitetail Intrigue is what its called.

[Jim Adams]

Weary,
Shoot them, save your garden and put it behind you. The farmers here in Pa. will at times ask groundhog hunters to hunt their farms because of destruction.

geek

[Appalachian Tater]

Weary,
Shoot them, save your garden and put it behind you. The farmers here in Pa. will at times ask groundhog hunters to hunt their farms because of destruction.

geekHere, practice.
http://www.miniclip.com/games/whack-a-ground-hog/en/

[Jim Adams]

Here, practice.
http://www.miniclip.com/games/whack-a-ground-hog/en/

thats some funny ****!:D

geek