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Keith Z
06-28-2008, 11:42
What are the chances of contracting lyme disease on the trail? I almost died from an untreated bout of it when i was 5, and i don't want this to happen again.

rafe
06-28-2008, 11:48
What are the chances of contracting lyme disease on the trail? I almost died from an untreated bout of it when i was 5, and i don't want this to happen again.

Apparently the chances are quite significant, especially in PA and southern New England. Many AT trailheads in that area have large warning signs about ticks and lyme disease -- kind of hard to miss 'em.

Keith Z
06-28-2008, 11:52
How well does DEET repell ticks?

rafe
06-28-2008, 11:55
How well does DEET repell ticks?

I wouldn't know. What I do know is that ticks often hide in places where I'd rather not put DEET.

dmax
06-28-2008, 11:57
A person has around 36 hours to remove a tick. Within this time period, there is about a 0% chance of catching lyme disease.

Keith Z
06-28-2008, 11:59
I wouldn't know. What I do know is that ticks often hide in places where I'd rather not put DEET.

Well, hopefully a vaccine is developed before i go (2 years) If not I guess I'll take enough doxycycline for an effective treatment if i spot the bulls eye.

rafe
06-28-2008, 12:01
Well, hopefully a vaccine is developed before i go (2 years) If not I guess I'll take enough doxycycline for an effective treatment if i spot the bulls eye.

Trouble is, there isn't always a bulls-eye, from what I understand.

Keith Z
06-28-2008, 12:02
A person has around 36 hours to remove a tick. Within this time period, there is about a 0% chance of catching lyme disease.
The only problem is i dont see them, like if they get on my back. But I guess that a daily check with a buddy would help in that case.

Keith Z
06-28-2008, 12:03
Trouble is, there isn't always a bulls-eye, from what I understand.
Which is why my case when i was 5 went unnoticed untill my heart started beating at 250 beats per minute... If you've had it before is it like chicken pox where you cant get it again?

4eyedbuzzard
06-28-2008, 12:09
How well does DEET repell ticks?

Nothing is foolproof, the damn things are so small. Treat clothing including socks and boot/shoe uppers with Permethrin, use DEET on skin. Inspect body frequently - like at minimum every day. A small lexan mirror helps if you are hiking alone.

Some use sulphur powder on socks and in footwear. Sulphur also repels chiggers. There's a product called Chigaway that is sulphur based I think.

TRIP08
06-28-2008, 12:13
If you've had it before is it like chicken pox where you cant get it again?

Yes, you can get it again.

OHBob
06-28-2008, 12:15
My son and I each came down with Lyme disease last year while hiking south from Harper's Ferry through the SNP. The doctors said you can get it again, so there is no immunity built up from contracting it once.

Keith Z
06-28-2008, 12:15
Nothing is foolproof, the damn things are so small. Treat clothing including socks and boot/shoe uppers with Permethrin, use DEET on skin. Inspect body frequently - like at minimum every day. A small lexan mirror helps if you are hiking alone.

Some use sulphur powder on socks and in footwear. Sulphur also repels chiggers. There's a product called Chigaway that is sulphur based I think.
Thanks for the tips. Hopefully i dont have to stop my hike because of something like lyme disease. My friend that im going with is lucky and tastes bad to bugs, he has never gotten bitten by mosquitoes or ticks...

Pedaling Fool
06-28-2008, 12:15
How do you know how long the tick has been there?

Pedaling Fool
06-28-2008, 12:16
How do you know how long the tick has been there?
I'm talking about the small ones that are very easily missed during a check.

Appalachian Tater
06-28-2008, 12:22
The VAST majority of patients with tick-borne illness did not even recall a tick bite. Well over half of those with Lyme had no bullseye rash or lesion. I'm resposting this from the Health, Safety, & Hygiene forum.

Excerpts from update for health care professionals on tick-borne disease from NYC DOH:

The most common tick-borne disease affecting New Yorkers is Lyme
Disease, but RMSF, babesiosis, anaplasmosis (human granulocytic
anaplasmosis or HGA, formerly known as human granulocytic ehrlichiosis)
and ehrlichiosis (human monocytic ehrlichiosis or HME) also occur every
year (Table 1). Of these, only RMSF is known to be transmitted within
all five boroughs of NYC; providers should consider and test for this
infection in patients with compatible syndromes even in the absence of a
travel history. For all patients with suspected tick-borne disease, it
is critical for clinicians to take a good travel history. Recent travel
to upstate New York, Long Island, Connecticut, Massachusetts or Rhode
Island in particular should prompt consideration of Lyme Disease,
babesiosis, HGA and/or HME, and diagnostic testing when warranted. Only
a small percent of case patients recall a tick bite: 16% (RMSF), 31%
(HME), and 25% (HGA). A history of a tick bite is not a prerequisite for
inclusion of these diseases in the differential diagnosis for patients
with compatible illness.

Guidelines on Diagnosis, Management and Prevention of Tick-borne Diseases
Evidence-based guidelines for the diagnosis and management of Lyme
disease, HGA and babesiosis were published in 2006 by the Infectious
Disease Society of America and are cited here for your review. They
include recommendations regarding the limited use of single dose
doxycycline (200 mg for adults and 4 mg/Kg for children aged ≥8 yrs with
max. of 200 mg) as prophylaxis for Lyme disease when ALL of the
following conditions are met:
1. The patient has traveled to a Lyme-endemic area (>20% of ticks
infected with B. burgdorferi – of note, many of areas surrounding NYC do
meet this criteria, including CT, MA, Long Island and upstate NY,
particularly the Hudson Valley)
2. Tick has been attached for ≥36 hours, based on engorgement or
history,
3. Prophylaxis can be started within 72 hours of the time tick is
removed,
4. Tick can be reliably identified as Ixodes scapularis, and
5. Patient does not have contraindication to treatment with doxycycline.

Case Definitions and Laboratory Diagnosis of Tick-borne Diseases
Lyme Disease: The presence of EM alone is sufficient to make the
diagnosis of Lyme disease; confirmatory laboratory diagnostic testing is
not necessary. Fewer than half of NYC patients reported in 2007 (43%)
presented with the characteristic erythema migrans (EM) or target
lesion. Cases with late manifestations (arthritis, carditis, or
neurologic disease for example) require laboratory confirmation.
Laboratory confirmation requires demonstration of diagnostic antibodies
to B. burgdorferi in serum or CSF. A two-test approach using a sensitive
enzyme immunoassay or immunofluorescence antibody followed by Western
blot is highly recommended. Testing is available through most commercial
laboratories.

Tick Bite Management
• Attached ticks should be removed promptly with a tweezers, ensuring
that mouthparts have not been left in the skin.
• Infection at the site of a tick bite (other than erythema migrans)
does not suggest an increased likelihood of exposure to a tick-borne
infectious disease.
• Testing ticks for disease agents has no diagnostic value because such
testing lacks sensitivity for detecting pathogens. In addition,
detection of a pathogen in a tick does not signify transmission of that
pathogen to the person bitten.
• The NY State Department of Health has a tick identification service.
It can identify ticks, but will not test ticks for infectious organisms.
For more information go to:
http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseas...yme/tickid.htm (http://www.health.state.ny.us/diseases/communicable/lyme/tickid.htm)

Tick Prevention
Patients can do the following to prevent tick bites and tick borne
illnesses:
• Check for ticks on your body (including your armpits, scalp, and
groin) or clothing after returning from wooded or grassy areas. Some
ticks are very small (about the size of a poppy seed) so ask for help to
inspect areas that you cannot see yourself
• Quickly remove any ticks you find using fine-tipped tweezers if
possible and wash the area thoroughly with soap and water.
• Avoid walking in heavily wooded areas; try to stick to cleared paths.
• Apply insect repellents that contain DEET (use according to
manufacturer's instructions). Other repellents such as picaridin,
IR3535 and oil of lemon eucalyptus (also used to prevent mosquito
bites) may provide some protection, but there is limited information
about their effectiveness against ticks.
• Wear light-colored clothing to allow you to better see ticks that
crawl on your clothing.
• Wear long-sleeved shirts and tuck your pant legs into your socks so
that ticks cannot crawl up the inside of your pant legs.
• Speak to your veterinarian about tick prevention products for your pet
dogs and cats.
• Remove leaf litter and debris to reduce the likelihood of ticks around
the home.
• If you get a rash or a fever, let the doctor know if you may have been
exposed to ticks or spent time in tick habitat, even if you don't
remember having a tick bite.

dmax
06-28-2008, 12:26
If you find a tick, don't kill it. Place it beside the trail, so it can latch onto someone else. This is their way of thru or section hiking. "Ride your own hike" or "hike your own ride?"

Bob S
06-28-2008, 22:42
If you find a tick, don't kill it. Place it beside the trail, so it can latch onto someone else. This is their way of thru or section hiking. "Ride your own hike" or "hike your own ride?"



Why would anyone kill a tick, they have every right to live as much as a human does. They are just trying to live a peaceful life, human hikers are the ones intruding into their space, not the other way around.

take-a-knee
06-28-2008, 23:35
Nothing is foolproof, the damn things are so small. Treat clothing including socks and boot/shoe uppers with Permethrin, use DEET on skin. Inspect body frequently - like at minimum every day. A small lexan mirror helps if you are hiking alone.

Some use sulphur powder on socks and in footwear. Sulphur also repels chiggers. There's a product called Chigaway that is sulphur based I think.

Suphur works, mix it 50/50 with baby powder to cut the smell and make it stay on your skin better. I spent a week slithering along the ground at the end of May in the piney woods of Ft Bragg NC and those of use who sprinkled out clothing with sulphur didn't get a single tick.

drastic_quench
06-29-2008, 01:26
Why would anyone kill a tick, they have every right to live as much as a human does. They are just trying to live a peaceful life, human hikers are the ones intruding into their space, not the other way around.
Oh please. All ticks found on your person are a nuisance at minimum and may well be disease spreading parasites. And the wilderness doesn't belong to any arachnid any more than it does to a human. The outdoors is as much as our natural environment as it is theirs. We're animals too - just clever and chatty apes.

rafe
06-29-2008, 01:28
C.t.K.: methinks Bob S. was being sarcastic.

drastic_quench
06-29-2008, 01:40
C.t.K.: methinks Bob S. was being sarcastic.
Hmm. My meter must be broken. Thanks.

Wise Old Owl
07-04-2008, 13:03
Keith Z - I have found Deep Woods off with Deet to be a good deterrent when hiking, only when I remember to use it. I guess it overwhelms their ability to smell dinner.

Heater
07-04-2008, 21:14
Why would anyone kill a tick, they have every right to live as much as a human does. They are just trying to live a peaceful life, human hikers are the ones intruding into their space, not the other way around.

Should ticks be allowed in shelters? :-?

Bob S
07-04-2008, 22:27
Originally Posted by Bob S http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=656074#post656074)
Why would anyone kill a tick, they have every right to live as much as a human does. They are just trying to live a peaceful life, human hikers are the ones intruding into their space, not the other way around.


Oh please. All ticks found on your person are a nuisance at minimum and may well be disease spreading parasites. And the wilderness doesn't belong to any arachnid any more than it does to a human. The outdoors is as much as our natural environment as it is theirs. We're animals too - just clever and chatty apes.


It was satire, I will kill any animal or bug that intrudes on me. No guilt over it at all. I was playing off all the tree huggers here trying to have some fun with it. ;)