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Lyle
07-04-2008, 10:07
I'm looking for suggestions for a winter shelter system for someone who is aiming toward ultralight (not a fanatic). Open to all suggestions. Sometimes hammock, but winter hummocking seems to require more weight than ground dwelling. Have folks found that the three-season designed tarps are sturdy enough for wind/snow loads of winter?

How about some decent tent options? Not looking for expedition gear, but adequate winter or shoulder season in the Appalachians (not the Whites). Weight and appropriateness more important than price, but tell me your low-cost solutions too! :)

Looking for suggestions.

double d
07-04-2008, 10:14
Great question Lyle, but there's alot of snow fall in the Appalachian Mts during the winter months (also alot of rain as well). I hiked from ASP to Springer Mt. to FS42 and back last Jan. of 08, we got alot of rain, no snow, temps around 45 day and about 33ish at night.
Don't skip out on weight for tents that are going to protect you from the winter conditions. I used a double walled tent (a tnf rock 22). Great tent, a little heavy at about 5 and half pounds, but keep me dry, warm and out of the elements.

Jim Adams
07-04-2008, 10:38
A tarp will work fine as you can set it up to be steep enough to avoid snow loads but usually a tent will still be warmer. All of your ultralight stuff will work but to me it is worth carrying a 5lb, 2 person tent, a good mat and a good down bag. your pack may be 4 lbs heavier than normal summer weight but the comfort level, especially while waiting out a storm will be waaaaay up there!.

geek

JAK
07-04-2008, 12:11
I'm looking for suggestions for a winter shelter system for someone who is aiming toward ultralight (not a fanatic). Open to all suggestions. Sometimes hammock, but winter hummocking seems to require more weight than ground dwelling. Have folks found that the three-season designed tarps are sturdy enough for wind/snow loads of winter?

How about some decent tent options? Not looking for expedition gear, but adequate winter or shoulder season in the Appalachians (not the Whites). Weight and appropriateness more important than price, but tell me your low-cost solutions too! :)

Looking for suggestions.This is a favourite topic of mine. Like most other favourite topics, I know I've done more thinking that doing on the subject, so I post more out of pleasure than pomposity. I do very well in winter with less shelter, not always having to pitch my poncho/tarp over my bivy and blue foam pad. In the woods it is often easier to find natural shelter under evergreen trees. Snow adds to the shelter, and usually isn't as wet as rain. You have to be prepared for rain though, and especially saturating rain and wet snow followed by subfreezing temperatures and strong winds, but again, in the woods, not so bad. Exposed ridges would be a very different story however. The woods and snow can really slow you down, but shelter is easy. I think a bivy is the way to go in winter for sure, in the woods that is.

Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-04-2008, 13:10
I've used something similar to the Etowah outfitter pitch for a tarp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkBeZqXU4zk) and then used rain gear to block the doorway nearly completely. Inside I used something similar to Six Moon's Serenity Bug tent. (http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=55) Basically, this gives you a double wall tent without the weight or limitation of a fixed tent . The trapazoid pitch (http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html) also works well for this.

JAK
07-04-2008, 13:33
Perhaps with larger groups more enclosed tarps and tents make more sense.

Alligator
07-04-2008, 15:22
Black Diamond Mega Light.

bigcranky
07-04-2008, 16:27
The Mega Light is a good suggestion. Plenty of room and good protection in a light 4-season shelter that closes up all the way around.

I prefer my tarp and UL bivy for winter use. Yes, it's colder than a winter tent. But it can be pitched in various configurations depending on the weather conditions, and provides plenty of protection for me. Mostly I like being able to see outside; I get very claustrophobic inside a tent.

(Note that my bivy is a homemade breatheable sleeping bag cover -- not a mountaineering Goretex bivy, so it's lighter and breathes better and doesn't get condensation, ever.)

mriets1
07-04-2008, 16:47
REI Quarter Dome T1 Self Standing 3 season tent @ 2 lbs.12 oz. on sale at REI for $140.00. Voted best buy by backpacker magazine in their last gear review. :)

http://www.rei.com/product/761891

BlackUp
07-04-2008, 20:08
Any of the UL pyramid shelters will work (there are many) for snow/wind/rain. Of course, being a single walled shelter, they do accumulate condensation in near and above freezing temps if ventilation is poor, and will shower "spindrift" upon you in below freezing temps.

I own a GoLite Hex3 and love it.

shelterbuilder
07-04-2008, 21:08
It IS possible to pitch a tarp in ways that will give you lots of protection from winter weather, but, having said that, I still like the idea of a tent in winter. Now I know that there are lighter tents, but I'm "kinda partial" to the Eureka 2-man Timberline with the vestibule. Here's why:

I usually hike alone, and while I could get by with a smaller shelter, the Timberline has PLENTY of room for me and my gear - I don't have to leave anything outside. There's room in the vestibule for my boots, and, with PROPER ventilation, I can also cook inside the vestibule (although, right now, I don't cook at all, but that's another story). It's a double-wall tent, so I'm not getting showered with ice crystals every time I bump the tent fabric, but I'm getting lots of 360* protection from the elements, especially the wind. And because I'm completely enclosed by tent fabric, the inside can be up to 10 degrees warmer than the outside. It's an easy tent to set-up, and since I've been using Eureka tents for years, I'm familiar enough with them that I can set them up in the dark if I have to. (And, no, I'm not a Eureka employee.)

For mountaineering, no, it's not a good tent. But for the kind of winter camping that I do in the Appalachians in relatively unexposed locations (from wooded ridgetops down to the valleys), it serves me well enough.

peter_pan
07-04-2008, 23:08
I'm looking for suggestions for a winter shelter system for someone who is aiming toward ultralight (not a fanatic). Open to all suggestions. Sometimes hammock, but winter hummocking seems to require more weight than ground dwelling. Have folks found that the three-season designed tarps are sturdy enough for wind/snow loads of winter?

How about some decent tent options? Not looking for expedition gear, but adequate winter or shoulder season in the Appalachians (not the Whites). Weight and appropriateness more important than price, but tell me your low-cost solutions too! :)

Looking for suggestions.

Sorry about the shameless plug..... but there are very few experianced winter hangers.....

Last year JRB debuted the Hammock hut and it has been available for a couple of months now..... I full tent that cover a hammock plus room for two mor on the ground at 1 pound 12 oz....there is no other full tent and darn few if any ultralight tent that will handle three folk that far under 2 pounds.

here is the link to Jack 'R' Better Hammock Hut the only true fully enclosed hammock tent.... http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Hammock%20Hut.htm

Pan

take-a-knee
07-04-2008, 23:15
REI Quarter Dome T1 Self Standing 3 season tent @ 2 lbs.12 oz. on sale at REI for $140.00. Voted best buy by backpacker magazine in their last gear review. :)

http://www.rei.com/product/761891

You'd best be skinny...and short.

mriets1
07-05-2008, 11:20
You'd best be skinny...and short.

You should always at least try out the tent in the store before you buy it, with sleeping pad and bag (borrow stuff from store). With that said, I am 6'1" and weight 210 lbs. The t1 is just right for me but if you are much bigger it could be a problem. It is self standing and I have no problem sitting up in it. REI has a 100% return policy for used gear if you have the receipt. I spoke to the sales guy about this and he told me that they had a guy bring in a pair of 10 year old hiking boots with reciept and they gave him a refund because he said that he thought they should have lasted longer. I said how can you guys have that kind of return policy and he said most people into the outdoors hobbies do not abuse it. REI might be higher priced sometimes but they have a more than fair return policy.

Tinker
07-05-2008, 11:26
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1262791629059664855XQxwfC

I like this one.

shelterbuilder
07-05-2008, 19:36
Sorry about the shameless plug..... but there are very few experianced winter hangers.....

Last year JRB debuted the Hammock hut and it has been available for a couple of months now..... I full tent that cover a hammock plus room for two mor on the ground at 1 pound 12 oz....there is no other full tent and darn few if any ultralight tent that will handle three folk that far under 2 pounds.

here is the link to Jack 'R' Better Hammock Hut the only true fully enclosed hammock tent.... http://www.jacksrbetter.com/index_files/Hammock%20Hut.htm

Pan

Interesting design on the hammock hut, but a little too rich for my blood. I'll go to ground in the wintertime, and hope for a nice deep snowpack to cushion my weary bones.

Shadowmoss
07-06-2008, 08:57
If you are looking at a 5 lb tent, then you are up to the weight of carrying a good underquilt for your hammock in winter. That is the main difference in winter and summer weights when hanging. Also, you can make a double bottom hammock to hold a pad, and/or make a hammock sock for extra insulation. This layering lets you pack for the conditions. Only in extreme weather would you need all of the pad/underquilt/hammock sock and even then I wouldn't think that would equal the extra weight of a larger tent considering you would need the pad (the heaviest piece) if you go to ground anyway.

JAK
07-06-2008, 09:13
Something I am going to try this coming winter is a system where I have something for in between hiking by day and camping be night. Something for when resting and warming up and perhaps having a cup of hot tea with milk and honey while sitting upright, perhaps against a tree, perhaps not. I would like it to be warm enough that I could sit up all night like that even on the coldest nights if I wanted to. I encountered some Eastern Coyotes last winter and I would like to get a photo of them this winter.

For this I am thinking of making a poncho/cape of some sort out of my heavy gortex bivy, but so as to still be able to use it as a bivy when sleeping. The cape I have in mind would be less flappy and more enclosed than my nylon poncho/tarp. As I would be wearing wool underneath, I think I might even be able to heat up tea with a candle lantern stove under my cape. Not sure. My head would be outside, but the hood would be big, and I would be able to pop my head inside to fiddle with stuff if I needed to. I would be sitting on my blue foam pad of course, folded in half or thirds, but I am not sure where my pack would be.

Shadowmoss
07-06-2008, 09:51
I'm playing with the thoughts (which don't cost anything) of how a Gatewood Cape and a Luxury Lite pack combo would do. For sitting, lean against the pack while under the cape setup more or less (as necessary) as the tarp setup shown on the Six Moons site.

whitefoot_hp
07-08-2008, 18:27
Lyle, the key is a good bivy you can rely on if your tarp skimps out on you. i have done a little experimenting with this strategy and it has worked so far. I stayed dry through a wet windy night around 30-40 degrees on a ridgeline last march, sleeping behind a 12 oz poncho tarp and 3/4 into my bivy. the folks i camped with carried a tent and complained of being wet. I say, being a little wet with a 1 pound shelter system is better than being a little wet with a 3-4-5 six pound shelter.

i have a bigger tarp (20 oz silnylon) that i used for a 4 day trip in late dec. did fine with a little rain, but this trip was a tad warmer than my march trip. i have yet to use this set up in snow.

as long as you are on the AT, they got those shelter things. naysayers will abound, being jealous of your practical decision to carry 1 pound of nylon as opposed to 3-5.
(they spend a lot of money on their tents)

Connie
07-09-2008, 18:51
Terra Nova Laser Competition 30.3 oz.

http://www.terra-nova.co.uk/Brand/Terra_Nova/Terra_Nova_Tents/Laser-Competition-43LCG.html