View Full Version : Not inside.....
Cherokee Bill
07-07-2008, 16:43
:-? What is your opinion?
I was off today, so I drove 60-miles from home and hiked McAfee Knob. As I got to the first shelter (-N- of 311) I noticed a few food bags hanging from trees. So I walked the few feet from the trail to the front of the shelter. So what did I see but two tents and a hammock all pitched “inside” the d*** shelter. I got a picture and the folks never waked-up.
This burns my butt. If you want to use a tent or hammock, pitch them outside the shelter. I wish I had a few of those ole Nam “phosphorus-grenades”, I would have used them. :mad:
Lone Wolf
07-07-2008, 16:49
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]:-? What is your opinion?
my opinion? i don't care. i don't use shelters. they're useless :) first come, first served
I don't like it when people set up tents or hammocks in shelters either.
Footslogger
07-07-2008, 16:54
:-? I wish I had a few of those ole Nam “phosphorus-grenades”, I would have used them. :mad:
===================================
Careful ...you're dating yourself. But yeah, those Willie Peter grenades were rather effective at times !!
'Slogger
modiyooch
07-07-2008, 16:54
did you need to sleep in the shelter, or were you just passing thru? what's the difference if you're not staying at the shelter ?
I don't really understand why this is important. Did you want to stay in the shelter? If so, politely asking the tenters to move out would be in order. If they refuse, then things might escalate.
Well we're itching, I don't like it when tenters hang their food bags in shelters!
modiyooch
07-07-2008, 16:58
the food bags were hanging in the trees.
the food bags were hanging in the trees.
Yeah in this case. I'm talking about when others set up their tents outside the shelter but hang their food bags inside.
I couldn't care less. I wouldn't stay in one unless, I could use a tent to protect me from the mice!;)
Yeah in this case. I'm talking about when others set up their tents outside the shelter but hang their food bags inside.
What's the difference? If shelter dwellers have their food hanging why can't others?
To me that's like saying only the people sleeping in the shelter can write in the register or poop in the privy.
Shelters have space for so many. If a couple tents are set up that space isn't there any more. Seems pretty simple to me.
Shelters have space for so many. If a couple tents are set up that space isn't there any more. Seems pretty simple to me.
I've seen a dozen or more foodbags hung from each string/tin can. Shelter sleepers don't own control of the shelter.
What's the difference? If shelter dwellers have their food hanging why can't others?
To me that's like saying only the people sleeping in the shelter can write in the register or poop in the privy.
Not the same at all. Why should I have to dodge your gear if you're not even staying in the shelter.
Not the same at all. Why should I have to dodge your gear if you're not even staying in the shelter.
Forget it. Agree to disagree.
No petty shelters wars on other trails. :)
Here is the list of things that irritate me:
1. ***************
2. $4.00/ gallon gas
3. People littering.
.
.
.
843. People setting up tents in shelters.
Forget it. Agree to disagree.
No petty shelters wars on other trails. :)
I agree, that's cool...
modiyooch
07-07-2008, 17:11
Not the same at all. Why should I have to dodge your gear if you're not even staying in the shelter. I hate to admit it, but I agree with sly on this one. should shelter dwellers hang their food above the tents? no, so tenters shouldn't hang their food with shelter dwellers. As far as the gear goes, I don't see a problem with trying to keep in dry and clean.
I hate to admit it, but I agree with sly on this one.
Hmmm, if I agreed with you, I'd just say so. No hate involved. :p
Cherokee Bill
07-07-2008, 17:14
my opinion? i don't care. i don't use shelters. they're useless :) first come, first served
:-?Lone Wolf, you are correct! Avoid the shelters all together and avoid the "shelter-wars" :eek: I will keep this in mind from now on;)
LW doesn't care because he doesn't use shelters but if someone set up their big ass tent and took anothers spot, it would be wrong. Period.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-07-2008, 17:19
Why would anyone hang their food in shelter when they were not staying in the shelter? Not trying to start a war, but have an honest question about why people who are not staying in the shelter would choose to hang food in a rodent-infested environment rather than in the trees.
Survivor Dave
07-07-2008, 17:20
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/7/6/4/7/funny_bear_toon.jpg
Interesting thread. Our little sub-culture often views setting up a tent or hammock in a shelter as a major breach of etiquette. These could simply be newbies who aren't aware that doing what they did is considered bad form. Sometimes a little education can go a long way. Sounds like that might be the case - and they are using the shelter as a base for day hikes.
Of course, they could be folks who simply don't give a crap. So what do you do? Get in their face, or walk on. That can be a difficult decision, as a confrontation can lead to an escalation.
On another note, Youngblood, a hammock enthusiast and engineer posted here long ago about the danger of hanging a hammock inside, or to a shelter. This can place major stress on the structure, that could potentially cause collapse.
Lastly, you know what burns my butt? A flame about 3' high. :D
Why would anyone hang their food in shelter when they were not staying in the shelter? Not trying to start a war, but have an honest question about why people who are not staying in the shelter would choose to hang food in a rodent-infested environment rather than in the trees.
So they don't have to deal with it.
Why would anyone hang their food in shelter when they were not staying in the shelter? Not trying to start a war, but have an honest question about why people who are not staying in the shelter would choose to hang food in a rodent-infested environment rather than in the trees.
You've just hiked 22 miles in the rain all day and you get to shelter XYZ and it's still raining and the shelter is full. You go and set up your tent. You put your food in the shelter (assuming there is room to hang it from one of the string/cans) because a) your food bag will stay dry all night and b) it will save you 15 annoying minutes of trying to throw a bear bag and you're a lazy thru-hiker.
When I tent I just keep my food next to me. Good for a night time snack.
When I tent I just keep my food next to me. Good for a night time snack.
I've heard bears think the same thing. ;)
Frolicking Dinosaurs
07-07-2008, 17:29
I keep my food in a waterproof bag so I don't have to worry about it getting wet so it never occurred to me that others would have this worry. If there are a dozen food bags hanging in the shelter and those are not molested by critters, why wouldn't it be OK to keep the food in your tent as Sly mentions?:confused:?
I've heard bears think the same thing. ;)
Never had a problem, even in "bear alleys". Maybe it's my snoring that keeps them away.
Never had a problem, even in "bear alleys". Maybe it's my snoring that keeps them away.
Do you hang you food when you are in Griz country?
modiyooch
07-07-2008, 17:32
Hmmm, if I agreed with you, I'd just say so. No hate involved. :pnah, I do hate to admit it. typically, I dont' agree with the hiking police mentality.
as far a the tenters in the shelter, I suppose they also could have arrived in the rain. No one was there, so they pitched in the shelter; thus staying dry. no harm done. there was no one else there. How would they know that billybob would get all upset while hiking the next am.
modiyooch
07-07-2008, 17:34
I keep my food in a waterproof bag so I don't have to worry about it getting wet so it never occurred to me that others would have this worry. If there are a dozen food bags hanging in the shelter and those are not molested by critters, why wouldn't it be OK to keep the food in your tent as Sly mentions?:confused:?rule #1. no food EVER in my tent.
Why would you have to pitch a tent in a shelter to stay dry? That's what shelters are there for. Plus this seems like it was in the middle of the day with no one around.
I'm not trying to be hiking police, just logical.
Why would you have to pitch a tent in a shelter to stay dry? That's what shelters are there for. Plus this seems like it was in the middle of the day with no one around.
I'm not trying to be hiking police, just logical.
Agreed. It's the height of laziness. Or ignorance.
Do you hang you food when you are in Griz country?
Not all the time. Last year, hiking solo, there were several times in griz country when I kept my food with me. Other times I hung. In 2002 with a group we never hung our food unless it was in Yellowstone or Glacier where it's mandatory
4eyedbuzzard
07-07-2008, 17:44
Is hanging a bug net, roughly the same footprint size as one's sleeping area, in keeping with proper shelter etiquette?
Is hanging a bug net, roughly the same footprint size as one's sleeping area, in keeping with proper shelter etiquette?
Yes. Or using a bivy.
Yes. Or using a bivy.
I've used my tarptent before in shelters. But I didn't erect it, I just draped it around me like a mosquito net over my sleeping bag. For mosquito protection.
I look at it this way...
If I feel the urge to ask the question, "is my ch-it in your way?", then I move it without asking.
Reason #142 that I don't stay in shelters any more.
Appalachian Tater
07-07-2008, 19:04
the danger of hanging a hammock inside, or to a shelter. This can place major stress on the structure, that could potentially cause collapse. If a shelter can't handle that much stress, a good wind could blow it over, too, and you shouldn't be staying in or near it.
Walkie Talkie
07-07-2008, 19:45
I usually stick my food bag in the shelter when I use my hammock. It is easier and pretty safe from the mice if it is hung right. I often put my trail shoes and maybe my pack in too. You have to look at the situation and make sure you are not inconveniencing anyone.
I also have hung my hammock in the shelter. I use great care not to offend when I do it. Such as wintertime in a large empty shelter. Or when I arrive late to an empty shelter and there is no chance it is going to take the space of the shelter dwellers. Again you have to look at the situation and make sure you aren't inconveniencing anyone. A hammock can take less space than a person with a sleeping pad. If someone showed up late I realize I may have to move. A tent seems obnoxious, but what if it is only that tenter and they wanted to avoid the bugs. Sometimes couples or female would like privacy. You just have to make sure you aren't inconveniencing anyone. No harm no foul.
kayak karl
07-07-2008, 19:50
If a shelter can't handle that much stress, a good wind could blow it over, too, and you shouldn't be staying in or near it.
its not the stress on the shelter but on the TWO pieces of wood they tie off to. was not meant to have stress at that angle. once a board or two are damaged the structure is in danger.
i put a lag eye into the corner post (triple 2-4) of my house for my hammock. before the end of the summer the post pulled out on bottom messed up a square of vinyl siding and woke me up:eek:
HAMMOCKS shoud be tied to trees.
modiyooch
07-07-2008, 20:08
Why would you have to pitch a tent in a shelter to stay dry? That's what shelters are there for. Plus this seems like it was in the middle of the day with no one around.
I'm not trying to be hiking police, just logical. it wasn't the middle of the day. they were still sleeping. It was morning. read the guys post. If you pitch a tent in a rain storm; your tent gets wet. why do they have to justify their actions? obviously, the only person put out was the day hiker.
You've just hiked 22 miles in the rain all day and you get to shelter XYZ and it's still raining and the shelter is full. You go and set up your tent. You put your food in the shelter (assuming there is room to hang it from one of the string/cans) because a) your food bag will stay dry all night and b) it will save you 15 annoying minutes of trying to throw a bear bag and you're a lazy thru-hiker.
If your food is going to be safe from bears hanging on a string in a shelter, it's going to be safe from bears in your tent.
I have yet to have a mouse or chipmunk or any other beast molest my food when it's in my tent in a food bag. I don't actually eat in my tent because I don't want it to be full of crumbs or spills.
modiyooch
07-07-2008, 20:11
If your food is going to be safe from bears hanging on a string in a shelter, it's going to be safe from bears in your tent.
I have yet to have a mouse or chipmunk or any other beast molest my food when it's in my tent in a food bag. I don't actually eat in my tent because I don't want it to be full of crumbs or spills. I have had a mouse to eat a whole in my jeans(1980) for a candy wrapper.
modiyooch
07-07-2008, 20:13
I truly think that weather had a lot to do with their decision to pitch in the shelter. It doesn't sound like they hike from shelter to shelter. Most hikers stay in a shelter to save time on pitching camp and breaking it back down. It wouldn't make sense to me otherwise, so just give them the benefit of the doubt. We have had severe thunderstorms.
Appalachian Tater
07-07-2008, 20:20
Gee, if anyone is hanging their food on the mouse hanger in a shelter to keep it safe from bears, they need to rethink that strategy!
And mice will eat a hole in a tent or the netting to get in to eat a hole in a pack to eat a hole in a foodbag to eat a hole in a plastic bag just to find out what GORP tastes like.
And I have pitched my tent in a shelter to keep the mosquitoes off and to keep from having to pack up a wet tent in the morning. If a tent is pitched in a shelter and no one is there to see it then no one could possibly be offended. For a passing day hiker to be offended is without cause.
Appalachian Tater
07-07-2008, 20:25
its not the stress on the shelter but on the TWO pieces of wood they tie off to. was not meant to have stress at that angle. once a board or two are damaged the structure is in danger.
i put a lag eye into the corner post (triple 2-4) of my house for my hammock. before the end of the summer the post pulled out on bottom messed up a square of vinyl siding and woke me up:eek:
HAMMOCKS shoud be tied to trees.They should be able to EASILY withstand several hundred pounds at any angle to be safe from wind forces. That is really bad about your house, did you go all the way through all three 2x4s? This was at the corner? Are the walls properly braced and sheathed? My guess is NOT. You should get your house inspected for structural integrity. Scary stuff.
teachergal
07-07-2008, 20:31
I would think that hanging ones food in the shelter one runs the risk of it getting eaten not by bears or mice, but by other thru-hikers!!!!!!
kayak karl
07-07-2008, 20:36
They should be able to EASILY withstand several hundred pounds at any angle to be safe from wind forces. That is really bad about your house, did you go all the way through all three 2x4s? This was at the corner? Are the walls properly braced and sheathed? My guess is NOT. You should get your house inspected for structural integrity. Scary stuff.
house was balloon framed with clapboard siding under vinyl siding. was my fault , I do know better:)
Appalachian Tater
07-07-2008, 20:43
house was balloon framed with clapboard siding under vinyl siding. was my fault , I do know better:)I am surprised it wasn't better braced. You still should consider bracing and adding sheathing if you ever do any remodeling.
kayak karl
07-07-2008, 21:04
I would think that hanging ones food in the shelter one runs the risk of it getting eaten not by bears or mice, but by other thru-hikers!!!!!!
somebody's thinking :-?
Just to be perfectly clear, I hung (and will continue to hang) my food in shelters where bears weren't supposed to be major threats (Not NJ, Shenendoah, Smokies, GA/NC).
My rule is, if the local maintainers provide a method to store food (bear box, pole, chain link fence, cable pulleys) I use them. Otherwise I hang in the shelter.
The reality is, 90% of the thru-hikers do the exact same thing.
The reality is, 90% of the thru-hikers do the exact same thing.
I did when I tented at a shelter.
Footslogger
07-07-2008, 22:05
I have had a mouse to eat a whole in my jeans(1980) for a candy wrapper.
=========================
...hope it wasn't while you were wearing them !!
'Slogger
Darwin again
07-08-2008, 09:29
it wasn't the middle of the day. they were still sleeping. It was morning. read the guys post. If you pitch a tent in a rain storm; your tent gets wet. why do they have to justify their actions? obviously, the only person put out was the day hiker.
Hikers hate to pitch in the rain. If there was nobody else there the night before and both parties agreed it would be OK to pitch in the shelter, then no harm, no foul, as I see it.
Day hiker didn't need the shelter so really, no issue here.
it wasn't the middle of the day. they were still sleeping. It was morning. read the guys post. If you pitch a tent in a rain storm; your tent gets wet. why do they have to justify their actions? obviously, the only person put out was the day hiker.
Well, Billy drove 60 miles and hiked to the shelter so it wasn't 1st thing in the morning.
If you pitch your tent in a rain storm, it gets wet? So, that's what they're made for.
Why not just sleep in the shelter, or tent like normal? Is that so hard to ask?
Jim Adams
07-08-2008, 09:57
Well, Billy drove 60 miles and hiked to the shelter so it wasn't 1st thing in the morning.
If you pitch your tent in a rain storm, it gets wet? So, that's what they're made for.
Why not just sleep in the shelter, or tent like normal? Is that so hard to ask?
Good post Sly. I tend to either tarp or stay in the shelter to avoid "tear down time". Never any reason to have a tent or hammock in a shelter.
geek
Darwin again
07-08-2008, 10:00
Good post Sly. I tend to either tarp or stay in the shelter to avoid "tear down time". Never any reason to have a tent or hammock in a shelter.
geek
Unless the bugs are bad and there's nobody else there or the people who are there don't mind. :rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
07-08-2008, 10:02
Never any reason to have a tent or hammock in a shelter.
geek
never a reason not to either. first come, first served
Undershaft
07-08-2008, 10:55
I've seen lots of people hanging their food in shelters, and then sleeping in tents or hammocks. I do it all the time, and never give it a second thought. Only once did someone complain. Two middle aged section hikers in New York, spent 20 minutes trying to convince me that I shouldn't hang my food on the mouse hangers in the shelter. They adamantly claimed that the mouse hangers were there for the thru-hikers to hang their packs on. I told them that I had been section hiking the trail for years and had never seen anything but a food bag on the mouse hangers. I hung my bag and went about 60 feet down to my hammock. When I woke up the next morning, I found my food bag flung into a corner of the shelter.
never a reason not to either. first come, first served
First come, first serve to the recommended spaces. Space is limited in shelters. A tent takes about double the room.
Lone Wolf
07-08-2008, 11:02
First come, first serve to the recommended spaces. Space is limited in shelters. A tent takes about double the room.
this is why a person should NEVER count on wooden box shelter space. always carry your own
I have no problem with people putting up a tent in a shelter if there aren't many people around, as long as they are willing to take it down if people show up.
Saw a SOBO couple with their tent in Rattle River Shelter during mid-day. Pretty weird. They made it a whole 1.9 miles outta town!
Wise Old Owl
07-08-2008, 11:49
:-? What is your opinion?
This burns my butt. If you want to use a tent or hammock, pitch them outside the shelter. I wish I had a few of those ole Nam “phosphorus-grenades”, I would have used them. :mad:
Ok, now you are scary...
Wise Old Owl
07-08-2008, 11:53
I've seen lots of people hanging their food in shelters, and then sleeping in tents or hammocks. I do it all the time, and never give it a second thought. Only once did someone complain. Two middle aged section hikers in New York, spent 20 minutes trying to convince me that I shouldn't hang my food on the mouse hangers in the shelter. They adamantly claimed that the mouse hangers were there for the thru-hikers to hang their packs on. I told them that I had been section hiking the trail for years and had never seen anything but a food bag on the mouse hangers. I hung my bag and went about 60 feet down to my hammock. When I woke up the next morning, I found my food bag flung into a corner of the shelter.
Yea, I have had experiences like that & worse in NY, They are so warm and welcoming up there. Life is too short.
The 10-20 minutes of convicing ... would have been my tip to leave.
In areas where bears are commonplace, no one should be hanging their food bags or anything else that a bear might think smells like food, in a shelter structure. Not those who sleep in the shelter, not those who camp nearby. It's an invitation to a 2am visit by a bear or maybe some other critter looking for a buffet. You could be on the menu. :eek:
That's why there are the pulley systems in the Smokies and other shelters in the South, and bear poles in SNP. In fact, in SNP hut maintainers are supposed to rip down any of those tuna can mouse hangers they find others have strung up.
If you didn't want to sleep in the shelter, then what's your problem? Seems some people think they have a right to b**** about things that don't even affect them.
I've put my tent up in a sheter once before. It was a huge shelter with a large covered porch and I put it up on the porch. It was a hubba, so the footprint was about as wide as my bag. Another couple put their tent up inside and a third person hung their hammock upstairs. There was still room for many more people and no one was put out. The reason? Tons of mosquitoes!!
This old curmudgeon walks up and says "Who's tent is that?" I reply, "mine" and he says "How Selfish" and storms off. We all burst out laughing at the jerk, cause he obviously didn't see the other tent or hammock. I called after him, as he walked off, "there's plenty of room in the shelter if you want to stay in here" His reply, 'I never stay in shelters' at which point we all lost it. Here he is, not wanting to stay in a shelter, and complaining about a tent that is set up on the porch, where hikers wouldn't be sleeping anyhow.
It never ceases to amaze me the stupidity of some people. I think it boils down to the fact that some people are just miserable and have nothing good to say, so they find reasons to complain about things, whether they are affected by them or not. I'd much rather share the company of folks that aren't bothered by much and let things roll off their backs. He probably spent the evening complaining to anyone that would listen about the tent in the shelter, ruining his night and the folks he ended up with.
I've put my tent up in a sheter once before. It was a huge shelter with a large covered porch and I put it up on the porch.
A silly question. Why would you setup your tent on a rock hard surface when soft mother earth is nearby?
Lone Wolf
07-08-2008, 12:42
A silly question. Why would you setup your tent on a rock hard surface when soft mother earth is nearby?
always wondered that myself :-? i speculate it's just laziness
Wise Old Owl
07-08-2008, 12:45
Lil Red,
Have you noticed "This old curmudgeon" as men get older they really do get GRUMPY!
Seperate post...
Skyline - Bears are not an issue in NY they moved them all to NJ. We hang food in shelters to avoid holes in our backpacks. In Shanendoah we hang Whiskey on trees because its a dry town. Just kidding.
A silly question. Why would you setup your tent on a rock hard surface when soft mother earth is nearby?
Good question. There was very little flat surface, and it was already taken by other hikers. Otherwise, I'd have been on the ground. Seems this is the way of building new shelters, on a hillside so the surrounding area doesn't get overused. Sucks for people that like to tent near a water source, ie: near shelters.
Lil Red,
Have you noticed "This old curmudgeon" as men get older they really do get GRUMPY!
LOL yes I've noticed as my husband is approaching curmudgeon stage....;)
Reminds me of the selfish me, me, me, feeling of entitlement attitude with no regard to those that may be behind. Another example is when 4 people take up an 8 person shelter claiming it as their own.
modiyooch
07-08-2008, 13:12
Reminds me of the selfish me, me, me, feeling of entitlement attitude with no regard to those that may be behind. Another example is when 4 people take up an 8 person shelter claiming it as their own.
and if there are only 4 people there...? if a tree falls in a forest and noone is there...
modiyooch
07-08-2008, 13:17
Well, Billy drove 60 miles and hiked to the shelter so it wasn't 1st thing in the morning.
If you pitch your tent in a rain storm, it gets wet? So, that's what they're made for.
Why not just sleep in the shelter, or tent like normal? Is that so hard to ask?
1. well billy is 61 yrs old and is probably up at 4 am. on the trail by 6 am.
2. then you take the tent down and carry it wet. not the most desirable thing to do.
3. why ask?
1. well billy is 61 yrs old and is probably up at 4 am. on the trail by 6 am.
2. then you take the tent down and carry it wet. not the most desirable thing to do.
3. why ask?
1. Don't know, ask Billy
2. Not a big deal. I've done it plenty of times.
3. Yeah, why have to. Just use the shelters as designed.
modiyooch
07-08-2008, 14:22
http://nc-soccer.net/forum/images/smilies/deadhorse.gif
This thread is Starting to look like the OLD WB again,oh joy! I can't believe how quick these things turn sour. What happened to the new policy?
Lone Wolf
07-08-2008, 14:46
This thread is Starting to look like the OLD WB again,oh joy! I can't believe how quick these things turn sour. What happened to the new policy?
report the post by clicking on the exclamation mark surrounded in red next to the post #
modiyooch
07-08-2008, 14:51
Sorry, didn't mean to offend. I'm done posting anyway; hence the image.
Cherokee Bill
07-08-2008, 16:30
Sorry, didn't mean to offend. I'm done posting anyway; hence the image.
:eek:Sorry for making the original post. I have asked that this thread be taken down :(
report the post by clicking on the exclamation mark surrounded in red next to the post #
Report which post for what?
Report which post for what?I guess that would be mudcap's question to answer, although I have no idea what post either.:confused:
Cherokee Bill
07-08-2008, 16:56
:eek:Sorry for making the original post. I have asked that this thread be taken down :(
Sly,
I am the one with egg in his face :eek: I started this post about folks tenting in shelters and, I therefore seem to have started a real mess. It was thoughtless on my part, as I should have never STARTED the thread "Not Inside....."
So I have asked that MY thread be taken :( Sorry!
Alligator
07-08-2008, 17:00
Thread closed per Billyboy's request.