Pepper Spray - Legal or Not in NPS?

[Pedaling Fool]

This is pretty amazing, 4eyedbuzzard sent me this, because of the other thread. According to this instruction (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/36cfr1.4.htm) a weapon is defined, among other things as an "irritant gas device" Note: This instruction defines a firearm as well as a weapon.

I noticed that a knife is not included under the weapon's definition. I tried calling the NPS for clairification, but just get voicemail.


Pertinent sections of the instruction:

[[Page 9]] firearm or in a clip or magazine inserted in or attached to a firearm; (2) A muzzle-loading weapon does not contain gun powder in the pan, or the percussion cap is not in place; and (3) Bows, crossbows, spear guns or any implement capable of discharging a missile or similar device by means of a loading or discharging mechanism, when that loading or discharging mechanism is not charged or drawn.

Weapon means a firearm, compressed gas or spring-powered pistol or rifle, bow and arrow, crossbow, blowgun, speargun, hand-thrown spear, slingshot, irritant gas device, explosive device, or any other implement designed to discharge missiles, and includes a weapon the possession of which is prohibited under the laws of the State in which the park area or portion thereof is located.


So apparently all this talk about carrying spray in lieu of weapons, because they are illegal through NPS parks is irrelevant. It would take some research, but I wonder what the definitions are in State parks.

[4eyedbuzzard]

EDIT: Don't ya love simultaneous posts John? :)

Just an FYI, in some instances there is no legal choice as to carrying firearms or pepper spray as both are prohibited. In National Parks, or on land administered under NPS, unless the superintendent specifically authorizes its possession and possible use, pepper spray is illegal to possess and carry under Federal Regulations. There are also state regulations that may limit possession, particularly in NY which has regs regarding where you may purchase it and MA which may require a permit.

The Federal Law pertaining to NP's is below:

36 CFR

Sec. 1.4 What terms do I need to know?

(a) The following definitions shall apply to this chapter, unless
modified by the definitions for a specific part or regulation:
... Weapon means a firearm, compressed gas or spring-powered pistol or
rifle, bow and arrow, crossbow, blowgun, speargun, hand-thrown spear,
slingshot, irritant gas device, explosive device, or any other implement
designed to discharge missiles, and includes a weapon the possession of
which is prohibited under the laws of the State in which the park area
or portion thereof is located. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...r/36cfr1.4.htm (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/36cfr1.4.htm)

Sec. 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.

(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7
(special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are
prohibited:
(i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net
(ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net
(iii) Using a weapon, trap or net...
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...r/36cfr2.4.htm (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/36cfr2.4.htm)

[Pedaling Fool]

EDIT: Don't ya love simultaneous posts John? :)


Simply amazing.

[4eyedbuzzard]

...I noticed that a knife is not included under the weapon's definition. I tried calling the NPS for clairification, but just get voicemail...

I e-mailed NPS regarding bear spray for any additional info as I know that Park Superintendents in Glacier and Yellowstone have allowed it in the past. I also asked about knife restrictions and under what circumstance they might be classified as weapons and prohibited based upon length, operating mechanism, etc. I'l post back when I receive their reply.

[Marta]

I e-mailed NPS regarding bear spray for any additional info as I know that Park Superintendents in Glacier and Yellowstone have allowed it in the past. I also asked about knife restrictions and under what circumstance they might be classified as weapons and prohibited based upon length, operating mechanism, etc. I'l post back when I receive their reply.

The spray is for sale at Ranger Stations in Glacier NP, so I hope it's allowed. :rolleyes:

[Sly]

The spray is for sale at Ranger Stations in Glacier NP, so I hope it's allowed. :rolleyes:

Yeah and if I'm not mistaken they sell it in Yellowstone where they also have griz. Not sure about eastern NP's or others out west.

[Appalachian Tater]

LOL. Not only does the NPS sell pepper spray in Yellowstone, they have a ten-minute video on their website about how to use it properly!!!

http://www.nps.gov/yell/planyourvisit/backcountrytripplanner.htm

[dmax]

Myself, "I" didn't see where it said you couldn't have pepper spray. The way I read it was if the device was designed to discharge missiles. No missiles discharged ever from my can of pepper spray.

[Gray Blazer]

My grandchildren's mother works at the gift shop at Big Meadows, Shennies and she reported seeing signs in the park that say don't spray the bears with pepper spray. It may scare the one off, but, it will attract other bears.

[4eyedbuzzard]

It is only allowed in certain parks because the Park Superintendent specifically allows an exception to the regulation. I am aware it's use is allowed in Glacier and Yellowstone, and perhaps even other western parks as seen fit, but that is at the discretion of and by decision of the Park Superintendent/NPS. The only place the CFR's specifically allow it (and some other weapons) is in Alaska.

[Fiddleback]

It is only allowed in certain parks because the Park Superintendent specifically allows an exception to the regulation. I am aware it's use is allowed in Glacier and Yellowstone, and perhaps even other western parks as seen fit, but that is at the discretion of and by decision of the Park Superintendent/NPS. The only place the CFR's specifically allow it (and some other weapons) is in Alaska.

So basically, if there are grizzlys in the Park(s), bear spray is allowed? Meanwhile, subject to barracks lawyers' interpretation, bear spray may or may not be allowed in other parks with 'only' black bears? Is there a problem here?

The rub, of course, is the probably erroneous interpretation of the rules as they apply to irritant gas devices. Whereas this thread is trying to apply the rule to bear spray, nothing has been mentioned about my can of Right Guard.:-? Or the Raid and Black Flag sprays. Or the Lysol. Or the Pam...:D

I would think that any test of the CFR is sure to hinge on 'purpose' and 'intent' and a the court would undoubtedly allow inside-the-park usage of such things as, e.g., sheathed knives and bear spray. On the other hand, should those be used in an assault then any sober judge would most likely throw the book at the offender...or whatever missile was at hand.;)

FB

[OregonHiker]

EDIT: Don't ya love simultaneous posts John? :)

Just an FYI, in some instances there is no legal choice as to carrying firearms or pepper spray as both are prohibited. In National Parks, or on land administered under NPS, unless the superintendent specifically authorizes its possession and possible use, pepper spray is illegal to possess and carry under Federal Regulations. There are also state regulations that may limit possession, particularly in NY which has regs regarding where you may purchase it and MA which may require a permit.

The Federal Law pertaining to NP's is below:

36 CFR

Sec. 1.4 What terms do I need to know?

(a) The following definitions shall apply to this chapter, unless
modified by the definitions for a specific part or regulation:
... Weapon means a firearm, compressed gas or spring-powered pistol or
rifle, bow and arrow, crossbow, blowgun, speargun, hand-thrown spear,
slingshot, irritant gas device, explosive device, or any other implement
designed to discharge missiles, and includes a weapon the possession of
which is prohibited under the laws of the State in which the park area
or portion thereof is located. http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...r/36cfr1.4.htm (http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2004/julqtr/36cfr1.4.htm)

Sec. 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.

(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7
(special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are
prohibited:
(i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net
(ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net
(iii) Using a weapon, trap or net...
http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_20...r/36cfr2.4.htm

Check each parks rules. I know pepper spray is allowed in Glacier and Yellowstone

[Pokey2006]

Not sure about National Parks, but I was always under the impression that you needed an FID card to carry pepperspray in some states. I'm pretty sure that's the case in Mass. So even if it's allowed in the park, it may not be allowed off the trail.

But I also believe that the "bear spray" that's sold over the counter in some states is not as potent as true pepperspray, so may not be treated the same as pepperspray under the law. I could be wrong, however. That's just what I always had believed.

[Fiddleback]

Some (most? all?) states which regulate pepper spray to not apply the same regulations to bear spray. They are properly considered two different things.

At the same time, those who use bear spray in an assualt will find themselves with a weapons charge...

FB