View Full Version : Hesitate To Go Lightweight?
BookBurner
07-14-2008, 10:36
If you carry more than 15 pounds of equipment, why don't you opt to carry lighter gear?
1. Safety Concerns?
2. Budget Constraints?
3. Comfort?
4. Not Aware Lighter Options Exist?
5. Other?
Finally, are your concerns the result of actual experience using lightweight gear?
Thanks for the input!!
Budget is the #1 thing for me. I recently purchased a 55 liter pack that weighs a little over 2 pounds. I used to use a Dana Design that weighed 6 pounds. That's progress, not perfection.
The only way I could make the transition was to purchase a down sleeping bag. My synthetic bags were too bulky. Next came a lightweight tent. For my upcoming JMT hike, I'm carrying a borrowed 4-season, 2-person, Stephensons Warmlite tent (just over 3#).
I started my daughter off right. I bought her a Gregory Z Pack, a 30 degree down sleeping bag, a 10 ounce inflatable sleeping pad, and I'm teaching her to go lightweight from the get go. That's a necessity for her, because she has some knee problems that will not be going away.
I still like some luxury items. I'll be carrying a flyrod on the trail, and probably a GPS and a field guide (plus a paperback). So sub-15 is probably not in my near future. But I'm inching ever closer.
How did you come up with the magical threshold of 15 pounds? Just wondering... :)
Seems to me everyone's got to find their own comfort and safety level. It's taken me a good deal of time, effort and $$$ to whittle my base weight down from around 25 lbs to about 16-18 lbs. Getting much below that... not likely to happen.
For what it's worth -- the lighter kit worked fine last summer on the AT.
I heard once... Go only as light as you feel comfortable. I use that theory.
Undershaft
07-14-2008, 10:52
Budget, mostly. Lighter gear is expensive. I would love to have a couple titanium pots, but I can't justify spending $50 on a cookpot. I would love to have a lighter fleece, but can't justify spending a lot of money when the heavier, bulkier fleece I have now is totally adequate. Some of the weight I carry is comfort related, like my radio. I don't need to carry the 4 ounces, but I like listening to music in my hammock at night. A couple of things are safety related, like my headlamp. I could have saved a couple ounces or more when I bought a new headlamp,but I opted for the heavier, more powerful headlamp to facilitate safer and easier night hiking.
Budget is definitely my #1 reason. I don't have much money. But I also don't want gear that is going to fall apart on me after only a couple of uses (this goes back to the budget problem also). I will always choose simplicity and reliability over a few ounces. I will NOT argue that comfort is a valid reason for not going lightweight because I enjoy hiking and walking more than spending time in camping, so for me a lighter pack is always more comfortable.
bloodmountainman
07-14-2008, 11:23
I have found in the marketing world of hiking, camping, etc., the lighter it weighs the more it costs! I carry some items that have to much weight, but I don't want to do without.
earlyriser26
07-14-2008, 11:24
Comfort. My base, ex-food and water is about 25 lb and i've worked hard to get it to that point. If I really tried I could take a couple lbs out of my pack (already took 2lbs out of its weight a couple of years ago), but no way am I getting to 15 lbs! I'll never give up my 4.5 lb 2 person tent or my warm sleeping bag. I've spent the last 30 years perfecting all my equipment. I live close to the 25 lb zone of comfort, others live at 15 lb. To each his own.
Tipi Walter
07-14-2008, 11:33
Just my pack and tent together weigh in at 16 pounds but I don't mind carrying the weight. Any normal adult can hump 60-75 pound loads and still cover 10 miles a day or more, depending on the terrain. The mileage goes down when climbing up 3000 feet, etc.
It's fairly easy to go light on a weekend trip, 3 days and 2 nights, and our current weather conditions with less rain and milder winters allow backpackers to leave the stout 4 season tents and carry tarps and Seedhouses. But a 12 day winter trip to high elevations(5-6000 feet)even in this day and time can require heavier gear to withstand zero degree temps and howling 60-70 mph winds.
On my last 9 day trip I took out 2 heavy books and alot of fancy food along with about 32 oz of fuel. I think the ULers are fixated on two things: Comfort and mileage. But there are other aspects to backpacking that are just as important, like freedom and trip length. Freedom means being able to camp in the worst possible conditions(or nearly so, short of a tornado)and have confidence in your shelter. And trip length means going to such places with enough food to last 14-21 days.
sbennett
07-14-2008, 11:35
Over the past year or two I've made a concerted effort to go lightweight in an intelligent manner; by finding where I get the most weight-savings per dollar spent. For instance I recently sold my old pack on ebay for around $60, then used that amount plus $20 of my own money to buy a GoLite pack that I found on sale. The $20 I spent saved me close to two pounds.
That being said, my biggest hangup on using ultralightweight/lightweight gear is that I have a hard time actually finding the stuff in stores where I live and I almost always want to see the gear and play with it before I make a commitment to purchasing it. That's my hangup about tents. I'd really like to have a Tarptent, and they seem to be highly regarded around this site but I've never seen and can't go anywhere to check one out/play with it.
Anyways, those are some thoughts I had
Footslogger
07-14-2008, 11:49
I was a bit hesitant to make the lighter weight move until my thru in 2003. Being in my mid 50's at the time, every pound I could shave off my back was a welcome relief to my knees and hips.
I started off with Gregory Reality and had it loaded to around 43 lbs. By the time I hit Katahdin some 6 months later I was carrying the Granite Gear Vapor Trail and my full load with food (4 days worth) and water was 24lbs. That was with my heavier and bulkier warm weather clothing.
The only difference I've made since then was to invest in the Wild Oasis tarp/tent that weights around 11 ounces, which cut my shelter weight in half and dropped my total pack weight to just over 23lbs. To be comfortable and safe I don't see myself ever getting much lighter than that.
'Slogger
I'd really like to have a Tarptent, and they seem to be highly regarded around this site but I've never seen and can't go anywhere to check one out/play with it.
With regard to Tarptents, I suggest you contact Henry Shires by email (or you can just PM him on this site) and discuss your concerns. I believe he'll bend over backwards to help you. A Tarptent Rainbow was part of my "lightening up" process (saved about a pound relative to the tent I'd been using before.)
Switching to a Tarptent from the more common double-walled tent is illustrative of some of the issues involved in lightening up -- you'll need to be a bit more careful in site selection, and may need to put up with a few minor annoyances. There's almost always a tradeoff involved...
If you carry more than 15 pounds of equipment, why don't you opt to carry lighter gear?
1. Safety Concerns?
2. Budget Constraints?
3. Comfort?
4. Not Aware Lighter Options Exist?
5. Other?
Finally, are your concerns the result of actual experience using lightweight gear?
Thanks for the input!!
1.i have a 0 degree down quilt 24 oz
2.my pack is 4000 cubic inches 11 oz
3.9x9 silnylon tarp 13 oz
3.my bugnetted hammock 16 oz
total 64 0z thats 4 lbs and there
is nothing un safe or heavy or uncomfortable about the rest of my gear.:cool:neo
Gray Blazer
07-14-2008, 12:50
I'll never be a real hiker cuz I can't afford the equipment!!
I am primarily interested in simplicity, and so I am as much interested in reducing the number of items as I am in reducing their weight. I am also interested in simplicity over the entire life cycle, so I like stuff that is simple to design, simple to obtain the materials for, simple to build, simple to maintain or replace, and simple to dispose of when its life cycle is completed. I like neat stuff, but not too much of it. Light weight is very important, but alot easier to achieve if you don't need much stuff. Same with budget. As for comfort, that too can be achieved quite simply, and simplicity once achieved is very comforting within itself. The natural world provides alot of inspiration. Generally speaking, nature doesn't try to sell us anything we don't need. Unlike other animals we have evolved to be able to use and need stuff, but not as much as we might think. We have a tendency to go too far, and we are easily compelled to do so, but when we find a simpler balance, we are often much better off.
4eyedbuzzard
07-14-2008, 12:59
How did you come up with the magical threshold of 15 pounds? Just wondering... :)
Seems to me everyone's got to find their own comfort and safety level. It's taken me a good deal of time, effort and $$$ to whittle my base weight down from around 25 lbs to about 16-18 lbs. Getting much below that... not likely to happen.
For what it's worth -- the lighter kit worked fine last summer on the AT.
Ditto. I'm at about the same base weight(18lb) without food and water. I could go lower but it would mean a change not just in equipment but doing without things as well. I think I'm too much of a camper at heart to be an ultralight minimalist hiker.
Bearpaw88
07-14-2008, 13:06
I think I only met one hiker with a pack weight of 15lbs. (including food and water) Getting around 15 is hard even if your an ultra lighter.
Personally was comfortable with 35lbs. That is what I generally carried at all times. I had some ultra light equipment but served only to let me carry more luxuries such as books, a journal, and what ever else I happened to want to carry.
I've always liked the phrase "Go Heavy or Go Home":)
Minimalism is intended to be an attempt to achieve a better balance, not a better extreme. It is at best a reaction to excess in materialism, not a condemnation of material itself, or the desire to aquire and use such material. It is still guided by utility and aesthetics. It does contain within it the assertion that the status quo is out of balance, in the opposite direction, perhaps because of modern societies tendency to do so. It is thus often perceived incorrectly by that society as an attempt towards an extreme, rather than an attempt at a more natural balance. Everyone has to find their own better balance though. In that sense, everyone is a minimalist, amongst other things.
Minimalism is intended to be an attempt to achieve a better balance, not a better extreme. It is at best a reaction to excess in materialism, not a condemnation of material itself, or the desire to aquire and use such material. It is still guided by utility and aesthetics. It does contain within it the assertion that the status quo is out of balance, in the opposite direction, perhaps because of modern societies tendency to do so. It is thus often perceived incorrectly by that society as an attempt towards an extreme, rather than an attempt at a more natural balance. Everyone has to find their own better balance though. In that sense, everyone is a minimalist, amongst other things.
Bah. There's nothing philosophical about it. It's easier to walk with less weight on your back. Nothing more to it than that.
NICKTHEGREEK
07-14-2008, 13:35
If you carry more than 15 pounds of equipment, why don't you opt to carry lighter gear?
1. Safety Concerns?
2. Budget Constraints?
3. Comfort?
4. Not Aware Lighter Options Exist?
5. Other?
Finally, are your concerns the result of actual experience using lightweight gear?
Thanks for the input!!
Scales weigh too much so I have no idea if my gear is too heavy
Perhaps my approach is better described as
"Minimalism" in concept or theory, but
"Worse is Better" in implementation and practice.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better
Or I'm just a cheap and lazy bastard that thinks and talks too much.
taildragger
07-14-2008, 13:42
I go lite when I can, but if I need to whip out the 8lbs tent, then I will.
I did things bass ackwards recently. Got a bag and a tent that followed my older philosophy of hiking, did some trips with that, and then started going lite. With a tarp, a foam pad, and a 15* down bag, I've got a lite setup, bought everything on sale, saved a lot of money, the only thing that was more expensive than a good heavy setup was my bag, and that thing kicks the crap out of the synthetics that I'd owned before.
Sorry, but I neglected to state these two very important assertions, and I should have done so right up front. They really are foundational to my philosophy, and fundamental to my argument.
1. Worse is better, naturally.
2. Bears are minimalists, truly.
You don't have to spend a lot of money to get 15lbs (or less).
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15329&highlight=%24300+challenge
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=5594&highlight=%24300+challenge
You should splurge on a good sleeping bag (though, at $120, the Campmor down bag is an excellent budget bag). The rest? You can go light, warm and cheap.
My cookpot of choice was not $60. :)
Something I wrote as well:
Quality Gear on the Cheap: If you read those glossy outdoor magazines, you'd think you need a $300 pack, a $300 shell and $300 fleece. You do not need expensive gear to enjoy backpacking. Often the brand name, besides being expensive is heavy, bulky and overkill for what is supposed to be for the simple joy of walking.
Though written for the Appalachian Trail, the general concepts apply for quality gear on the cheap:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678</pre>
Some additional information I will add is that you should invest in a decent sleeping bag. The Campmor down bag is $110, rated to 20F
and is known as a good budget bag.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=86896&memberId=12500226 </pre>
If you are looking for a light, compressible and warm jacket check out an army liner jacket
(mentioned in the above article, but deserves to be emphasized) : http://tinyurl.com/2dfgpk </pre>
Finally, for high altitude/desert hiking I suggest a long sleeve polyester dress shirt for the princely sum of $4 from
many thrift stores. I've used this type of shirt for literally several thousand miles of backpacking.</pre>
And trip length means going to such places with enough food to last 14-21 days.
Or..on your scale 140-210 miles.
SInce I enjoy hiking, and not camping as much, I do the same distance (210 miles..the JMT essentially) in less than 10 days by going lite. I am not fixated on distance, or how fast I am going. I simply enjoy the simple act of walking. And by going lite I am able to walk all day..and enjoy it.
I am lazy. I am a wimp. I do not want to carry 70 lbs for 10 miles. No thank you.
My way is not better or worse that others. But it is the way that works for ME. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
taildragger
07-14-2008, 14:00
If you are looking for a light, compressible and warm jacket check out an army liner jacket
(mentioned in the above article, but deserves to be emphasized) : http://tinyurl.com/2dfgpk
Got a down vest and jacket (EMS glacier) on sale for $11 and $17 or so, not bad for what I got, and cheaper and lighter than what I could find in thrift store.
My light gear probably costs half of what my heavy gear cost me (total).
BookBurner
07-14-2008, 14:23
Great input! Very "enlightening". Please keep it coming. In response to Terrapin's question, I picked 15 pounds as a threshold because I thought if someone is carrying 15 pounds, they've already made a significant effort to cut weight, i.e they've already dealt with possible budget/comfort/etc. concerns. If someone's carrying more than 15 though, there is certainly wide room to trim poundage and wondered why they opted not to make further moves. Nothing real scientific, but very eye-opening for me. Thanks for your help.
pyroman53
07-14-2008, 15:57
My base weight w/o food and water is about 17 pounds. Money is not really a limiting factor for me, but, either for comfort or ease of operation I can't get much below that. Such things as air mattress, cannister stove, rain pants, pack cover, cell phone, and a 3 lb pack I just can't give up. I could prolly get down to 15 lb base, but I would have to seriously scrimp/cut these.
Great input! Very "enlightening". Please keep it coming. In response to Terrapin's question, I picked 15 pounds as a threshold because I thought if someone is carrying 15 pounds, they've already made a significant effort to cut weight, i.e they've already dealt with possible budget/comfort/etc. concerns. If someone's carrying more than 15 though, there is certainly wide room to trim poundage and wondered why they opted not to make further moves. Nothing real scientific, but very eye-opening for me. Thanks for your help.
In the paragraph above you make generalizations about two arbitrary groups of hikers, and you choose the dividing line between these groups as 15 pounds.
Those who've made the grade (according the 15-pound definition) have "already made a significant effort to cut weight" while for those who haven't, "there is certainly wide room to trim poundage."
IMO, the generalizations you've made can't be predicated on a simple dividing line. That's my only point.
Christus Cowboy
07-14-2008, 18:25
Minimalism is intended to be an attempt to achieve a better balance, not a better extreme. It is at best a reaction to excess in materialism, not a condemnation of material itself, or the desire to aquire and use such material. It is still guided by utility and aesthetics. It does contain within it the assertion that the status quo is out of balance, in the opposite direction, perhaps because of modern societies tendency to do so. It is thus often perceived incorrectly by that society as an attempt towards an extreme, rather than an attempt at a more natural balance. Everyone has to find their own better balance though. In that sense, everyone is a minimalist, amongst other things.
Personally, I think Jak makes some good points here..... As I get older, I find myself looking for economical ways to reduce weight without having to take out a second mortgage on the house or reducing comfort to draconian levels...... Like the others budget, utility, quality and weight for the price are primary considerations for me. In many cases, I'm getting better at not dragging so much with me, in other ways, I opted for a simple low cost gear replacement such as when I built a CAT alcohol stove to replace my white gas stove and saved 8 ounces for $1.50. Another example came from being patient and waiting for a good sale where I recently purchased a MSR Zoid solo tent from the clearance rack. Certainly not the lightest tent on the market but a solid tent with great reviews and it saved me another two pounds without breaking the bank. Simply put, I'm not going to spend $600.00 to reduce my pack weight by 11 ounces nor am I going to hit the trail with a piece of plastic and a pack of cheese crackers.... I'm not running down those who do... I guess for me that "better balance" that Jak is talking about also ties into the time tested principle of everyone hiking their own hike.... For me when I hike I want a physical challenge, I want to log decent mileage but not at the expense of enjoying the trail or having some great pictures to share with my family when I get home....
I have hiked in the ice and snow with 52 pounds (OUCH!) and recently 150 miles under 40 pounds. New gear has me at about 32-33 with full water load and 4 days of food for 160 mile Fall trip. HUGE difference in comfort and ease of mileage, lighter to me is the only way to go, and I am VERY comfortable. Tarptent, Big Agnes down bag, etc. Moving in the right direction, more about hiking, less about the gear which to me is better.
Nearly Normal
07-15-2008, 07:02
Half way up some of those hills makes the expense seem worth it for lite gear.
I wanted to lighten my load, on a tight budget, so I learned how to sew. Made ray-way tarps,packs, and quilts for me and my son. I was also patient, and bought air mattresses, stoves, and ti cook pots, used, 50% or less than retail. Probably took a year and a half to go from very heavy to where I am now. Just recently did a three night 50 mile trip on the Benton McKaye Trail. My pack with food and water was 16lbs. To answer your original question posed by the thread, budget concerns, and not knowing what the options were, kept me from going lighter earlier.
whitefoot_hp
07-15-2008, 11:39
i have found that going light makes you safer because you are not as exhausted or as committed when carrying enormous loads. being exhausted mid winter can be hairy.
Beer Can pot and an alcohol stove
Campmor 20 degree bag and a Campmor 8x10 tarp
Aluminum Stakes
Bug netting of choice
Soda Bottles for water
Ziplocks for diddy bags
Army surplus liner pants and liner jacket
Generic Wool blend socks
Tennis shoes
Generic Blue Foam pad
Iodine Tablets and Vitamin C
Poncho from about anywhere ....
ULA pack is about $100 bucks ....
You don't have to spend a lot to go light ....
taildragger
07-15-2008, 12:42
Beer Can pot and an alcohol stove
Campmor 20 degree bag and a Campmor 8x10 tarp
Aluminum Stakes
Bug netting of choice
Soda Bottles for water
Ziplocks for diddy bags
Army surplus liner pants and liner jacket
Generic Wool blend socks
Tennis shoes
Generic Blue Foam pad
Iodine Tablets and Vitamin C
Poncho from about anywhere ....
ULA pack is about $100 bucks ....
You don't have to spend a lot to go light ....
All of that and 5 days worth of food will fit in the conduit? Didn't know that 3000CI was that spacious...
whitefoot_hp
07-15-2008, 12:48
Beer Can pot and an alcohol stove
Campmor 20 degree bag and a Campmor 8x10 tarp
Aluminum Stakes
Bug netting of choice
Soda Bottles for water
Ziplocks for diddy bags
Army surplus liner pants and liner jacket
Generic Wool blend socks
Tennis shoes
Generic Blue Foam pad
Iodine Tablets and Vitamin C
Poncho from about anywhere ....
ULA pack is about $100 bucks ....
You don't have to spend a lot to go light ....
ULA packs start around 140, and i dont think a conduit would be ideal for that gear. talking like 220 for the catalyst.
i assume the poncho is the groundsheet? then it would need to be higher end, 60 -70 bucks minimum.
on the right track, though.
going light with respectable gear does inevitably cost money. the only way to go light cheaply is to simply rough it.
my light gear
ula conduit 140 bucks
frogsac sleeping bag 80 bucks
bivy 90 bucks
poncho 80 bucks
cookset 50 bucks
lightweight layers 50 bucks
etc...
I got my pack for $100. Golite Jam2.
Wolf - 23000
07-15-2008, 15:34
If you carry more than 15 pounds of equipment, why don't you opt to carry lighter gear?
1. Safety Concerns?
2. Budget Constraints?
3. Comfort?
4. Not Aware Lighter Options Exist?
5. Other?
Finally, are your concerns the result of actual experience using lightweight gear?
Thanks for the input!!
<link rel="File-List" href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CWolf%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoht ml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml"><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> </w:Compatibility> <w:BrowserLevel>MicrosoftInternetExplorer4</w:BrowserLevel> </w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--><style> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} </style> <![endif]--> Safety Concerns ... nope. Lightweight gear can be safer than carrying a huge bulky, awkward pack. Easier on the back, legs, feet and soul too.
<o></o>
Budget Constraints … no I can’t see that one either. I travel lightweight and normal spend a lot less on my gear than the average thru-hiker does.
Comfort … no. I think it is more comfortable climbing a mountain with a 10 - 15 pound compare to a 35 – 45 pound pack.
<o></o>
Not aware lighter options exist … No I do go for that one either. Ultra-light weight backpacking has been around for at over 20 years.
<o></o>
Other … I could go for this one. The other would be they simple don’t want to. Every thru-hiker/hiker can take something out of his/her backpack if they wanted to.
Wolf
the goat
07-15-2008, 20:35
<LINK href="file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CWolf%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5Cmsoht ml1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><STYLE> <!-- /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE>Every thru-hiker/hiker can take something out of his/her backpack if they wanted to.
sure.
they carry it b/c they want to.
the same concept could be applied to any "ultra lighter". unless they were walking naked, with no pack, no excess body fat, and all body hair shaved off.:-?:D
taildragger
07-15-2008, 20:40
sure.
they carry it b/c they want to.
the same concept could be applied to any "ultra lighter". unless they were walking naked, with no pack, no excess body fat, and all body hair shaved off.:-?:D
My body hair is like fleece, gotta keep it on for the cooler weather:sun
kayak karl
07-15-2008, 21:21
If you carry more than 15 pounds of equipment, why don't you opt to carry lighter gear?
4. Not Aware Lighter Options Exist?
5. Other?
Finally, are your concerns the result of actual experience using lightweight gear?
Thanks for the input!!
I got back into hiking last September after not doing it for 13 years. i did a 4 day hike on the Batona trail in NJ. pack was 55 lb. had 3 liters of water and a filter and pasted water spots every 5 mi:-?. Pack was heavy , I was hot, got jigger bit and sun burnt.
IT WAS GREAT:sun.
I have replaced some of my 1989 "I. Goldberg" gear. now use a hammock not an 8lb tent. Made other homemade gear. lite kitchen gear. Frogg Thoggs and water proof socks (joke). am i at 15 lb? dont know, don't care.
Next weekend ill pack up my gear and get out of Dodge:) Spend a day in the woods AND HAVE FUN:)
Forgot the "UP's", life's lessons continue to be true. After every hike I list what I did not need, want or use. Just delete for the next trip. More expensive gear is worth it plus if you are married that is money spent on you vs your wife (sorry gal's) may NOT spend. It will feel better, trust me. I am a convert, much lower weight is the only way to go, the AT can be brutal, especially being older and/or overweight/out-of-shape.
Next trip I may not even cook. I can make it for 2 weeks with "trail food" while sectioning. It's becoming more about hiking!
All of that and 5 days worth of food will fit in the conduit? Didn't know that 3000CI was that spacious...
I've gotten all that and more in my Conduit.
I'm taking it to Glacier next week with 5 days worth of food, a tent, Go light Quilt, Poncho, fishing gear, an insulated jacket, socks, hat, toiletries, and a Jetboil. 3000 Cu in is HUGE .... I've gotten my gear down to where it will fit in 1600 cu in without food. Light gear doesn't take up nearly as much volume.
And I didn't mean to imply that the conduit was the only ULA pack to consider ....
My thought is to spend your money on a good pack and good insulated clothes ..... the rest can change due to preference.
Originally Posted by the goat http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=665778#post665778)
sure.
they carry it b/c they want to.
the same concept could be applied to any "ultra lighter". unless they were walking naked, with no pack, no excess body fat, and all body hair shaved off.:-?:D
My body hair is like fleece, gotta keep it on for the cooler weather:sun
One sure way to thin out the traffic on the trail is to have me walk naked down the path .... that's for sure.
taildragger
07-16-2008, 13:08
I've gotten all that and more in my Conduit.
I'm taking it to Glacier next week with 5 days worth of food, a tent, Go light Quilt, Poncho, fishing gear, an insulated jacket, socks, hat, toiletries, and a Jetboil. 3000 Cu in is HUGE .... I've gotten my gear down to where it will fit in 1600 cu in without food. Light gear doesn't take up nearly as much volume.
And I didn't mean to imply that the conduit was the only ULA pack to consider ....
My thought is to spend your money on a good pack and good insulated clothes ..... the rest can change due to preference.
I guess I just need to get my hands on one of these light packs to see how my gear rides. I've been able to get my three season gear and BV500 inside of a 48L pack (that bear vault took up a lot of internal room). But cost will probably limit me to one bag (unless I could fit a four season gear set onto my external....hrmmm....)
River Runner
07-18-2008, 19:22
More expensive gear is worth it plus if you are married that is money spent on you vs your wife (sorry gal's) may NOT spend.
Or for some of us, money our husband's dont' get to spend. :D
notorius tic
07-18-2008, 21:03
I heard once... Go only as light as you feel comfortable. I use that theory. Started out with 45 or 47 Georgia broke me fast.. Got to the comfy level of 30 an hiked the hole way with that give or take a few..Food ect. Dropped the winter gear after the nasty Northeastern "LATE".. an picked up miles.. Too each his own.. Happy hiking all.:jump
I guess I just need to get my hands on one of these light packs to see how my gear rides. I've been able to get my three season gear and BV500 inside of a 48L pack (that bear vault took up a lot of internal room). But cost will probably limit me to one bag (unless I could fit a four season gear set onto my external....hrmmm....)
Take a old sheet and some duct tape. Tape up a sack of sorts ..... 30 inches long by 20 inches wide.
Fill it up with your gear ..... this is 3000 cubic inches.
Leave your personal articles and luxury items for last.
It's quite a liberating experience.
If you take the same sack and made it 25 by 20 you'd have 2500 cu. in.
20 x 20 would be 2000.
In this way you can see exactly what's taking up all the room in your pack. That's your target for reduction in weight and volume.
It's really that simple.
Most of my equipment borders on light/ultralight, because it's that much closer to freedom. Freedom to carry more luxury items like fresh FOOD, books, and photo equipment. Freedom to enjoy my hiking a lot more. I like bounding up the trail instead of slogging my way to the top of a hill. I like being able to bend over, squat, or take a break without taking my pack off. Not having a constant, heavy reminder of the things I'm carrying into nature is the best freedom of all.
greentick
07-24-2008, 01:02
All of that and 5 days worth of food will fit in the conduit? Didn't know that 3000CI was that spacious...
I have the Circuit which is about 3700CI. My synthetic 10* REI pertex/primaloft long bag was 3# and not too bulky but over the course of a couple of Christmases/Birthdays I ditched that for a WM Ultralite Super (long) and dumped my fleece for a MontBell UL Down Inner (the rich, lighter cousin of an Army field jacket liner AKA chinese smoking jacket:D) and all of a sudden the Circuit is way too big. 4-5 days of food and full load of water it's not bad. Eat up some of the food and the space is way noticable. That is with my winter load. Part of the problem of going from a bigger pack to a smaller pack is that the smaller never looks big enough, which may lead you to not downsize enough. I should/could have gone with a Conduit.
Holidays are definately the way to go for lightening up...
taildragger
07-24-2008, 10:10
I have the Circuit which is about 3700CI. My synthetic 10* REI pertex/primaloft long bag was 3# and not too bulky but over the course of a couple of Christmases/Birthdays I ditched that for a WM Ultralite Super (long) and dumped my fleece for a MontBell UL Down Inner (the rich, lighter cousin of an Army field jacket liner AKA chinese smoking jacket:D) and all of a sudden the Circuit is way too big. 4-5 days of food and full load of water it's not bad. Eat up some of the food and the space is way noticable. That is with my winter load. Part of the problem of going from a bigger pack to a smaller pack is that the smaller never looks big enough, which may lead you to not downsize enough. I should/could have gone with a Conduit.
Holidays are definately the way to go for lightening up...
dang, and I just ordered a circuit (thought that I could fit all my gear and a bear can in it)
In the paragraph above you make generalizations about two arbitrary groups of hikers, and you choose the dividing line between these groups as 15 pounds.
Those who've made the grade (according the 15-pound definition) have "already made a significant effort to cut weight" while for those who haven't, "there is certainly wide room to trim poundage."
IMO, the generalizations you've made can't be predicated on a simple dividing line. That's my only point.
Exactly! The 5'2" 110# female can achieve this arbitrary 15 pound limit far easier than the 6'3" 200# man. Her clothes and sleeping bag aren't as big or heavy, and she probably doesn't eat as much either! That's a little like saying that anyone who weighs more than 160# is overweight! It's not usually true! It depends on many different factors.
taildragger
07-24-2008, 12:14
Exactly! The 5'2" 110# female can achieve this arbitrary 15 pound limit far easier than the 6'3" 200# man. Her clothes and sleeping bag aren't as big or heavy, and she probably doesn't eat as much either! That's a little like saying that anyone who weighs more than 160# is overweight! It's not usually true! It depends on many different factors.
How about saying that someone who carries all their gear (food and water) at less than 20% of their body, or would 15%-10% be better...
For me, 10% of body weight feels light. 15% is okay. >20% makes hiking uphill feel like a lot more work.
Neither the arbitrary weight or the arbitrary percentage of weight are going to exactly work the same for a big man verses a small woman. If each carries the same type gear, the 200# guy is going to carry more weight, the 110# girl will be carrying a higher percentage of her weight.
SunnyWalker
07-24-2008, 12:55
Anyone using an ole army rucksack?
taildragger
07-24-2008, 15:11
I actually just got my circuit (was hesitant going full rucksack, so this was my compromise) and this thing is huge! I can definitely fit my shoulder season/not bloody cold winter gear in it with some room to spare!!
Now if only someone would buy my whitney that I have listed for sale...
taildragger
07-26-2008, 15:27
Dang, just starting playing with the circuit, going to take it on a fishing trip this weekend (8 mile walk in, camp, fish, walk out next morning, should be quick fun and easy).
This thing is massive. with my hammerhead 2 tent, z-rest, clothes, and fly rod, this thing carries like a champ. I needed to pack the big tent in order to take up space. This thing looks like it will carry my shoulder season with bear can just fine.
This might be my first piece of gear that is truly worthy of a more technical write up (I never thought that a 2000+CI main compartment was truly that cavernous!!)
SurferNerd
07-26-2008, 16:48
I feel bad, my pack for next year is guesstimated at 14.8lbs so far minus food/water/fuel. I say guesstimated because I haven't gotten the change to field strip anything yet. I'm sure once every tag, excess string, label, bag, case, and whatnot is removed, I'll prob be down to under 13lbs. BUT the issue again is my cost, I'm looking at around $2300 in gear.
SurferNerd
07-26-2008, 16:49
Anyone using an ole army rucksack?
I had to use one once, my first hike with the boy scouts. We hated them so much we bought Kelty's for the next year.
taildragger
07-26-2008, 18:07
I feel bad, my pack for next year is guesstimated at 14.8lbs so far minus food/water/fuel. I say guesstimated because I haven't gotten the change to field strip anything yet. I'm sure once every tag, excess string, label, bag, case, and whatnot is removed, I'll prob be down to under 13lbs. BUT the issue again is my cost, I'm looking at around $2300 in gear.
How?
Tarp 8X10 $60 after sealing
Helium 15* bag $150-200 (I can't remember)
Pad $5
ULA circuit $180
Fleece top $30
Ems glacier vest $12
polypro long johns $20 (wal-mart style)
Balaclava $20
Socks $10
Shoes $80 (can get for a lot less)
50* bag $80
Pants zip off $14
Fishing shirt $14
cowboy hat $10
Total: 735-685 (unless I added wrong) and thats with some real nice stuff. I could have gone even cheaper by using a jam2, making a quilt for 3 season use etc...
Its easy to dirtbag, in fact, read the dirtbagging article
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678
Backpacking can be cheap, and you can be light and cheap. Hell, my old external is kevlar framed and only weighs in around 4lbs, I paid $40 new for it, it will carry 40lbs nicely (rated for 80lbs)
SurferNerd
07-26-2008, 18:28
How?
Tarp 8X10 $60 after sealing
Helium 15* bag $150-200 (I can't remember)
Pad $5
ULA circuit $180
Fleece top $30
Ems glacier vest $12
polypro long johns $20 (wal-mart style)
Balaclava $20
Socks $10
Shoes $80 (can get for a lot less)
50* bag $80
Pants zip off $14
Fishing shirt $14
cowboy hat $10
Total: 735-685 (unless I added wrong) and thats with some real nice stuff. I could have gone even cheaper by using a jam2, making a quilt for 3 season use etc...
Its easy to dirtbag, in fact, read the dirtbagging article
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678
Backpacking can be cheap, and you can be light and cheap. Hell, my old external is kevlar framed and only weighs in around 4lbs, I paid $40 new for it, it will carry 40lbs nicely (rated for 80lbs)
Read my post in the 2009 forum regarding my gear and costs, I posted up a list, including costs. It's more to the fact of luxury lightweight hiking. I know I could do it with the basics and walmart, but knowing the products and the warranties behind them make all the difference. Except for a few items, the companies I'll be purchasing through will actually ship me gear on the trail to replace broken stuff, and I'll ship the old back. The most expensive item is the handmade down sleeping bag.
whitefoot_hp
07-28-2008, 14:38
Backpacking can be cheap, and you can be light and cheap.
if we are talking 15-20 lbs baseweight, then yes.
5-10, then it really depends what gear we are talking about.
ideas of 'lightweight' are so diverse sometimes it makes a good discussion of UL hiking difficult.
i have found that to be in the 5-10 baseweight range, and have functional reliable gear and have your bases covered, it aint gonna be cheap.
taildragger
07-28-2008, 15:50
if we are talking 15-20 lbs baseweight, then yes.
5-10, then it really depends what gear we are talking about.
ideas of 'lightweight' are so diverse sometimes it makes a good discussion of UL hiking difficult.
i have found that to be in the 5-10 baseweight range, and have functional reliable gear and have your bases covered, it aint gonna be cheap.
Other than the bag, whats real expensive? A rucksack can hold the weight and its cheaper than most packs (and I am a firm believer in quality sleeping bags, something that no one should forego the cost of)
trippclark
07-28-2008, 16:09
If you carry more than 15 pounds of equipment, why don't you opt to carry lighter gear?
1. Safety Concerns?
2. Budget Constraints?
3. Comfort?
4. Not Aware Lighter Options Exist?
5. Other?
Finally, are your concerns the result of actual experience using lightweight gear?
Thanks for the input!!
My base weight is about 17 lbs in the summer and a couple pounds more in cold weather. I have shaved about everything that I am WILLING to sacrifice. I could reduce weight a bit by eliminating the hammock and just using a tarp, and by going with a pack without a framesheet, but I am not willing to sacrifice that COMFORT. I could leave behind cook gear and fuel and save a pound by eating cold food, but that is often a wash since generally cold food is heavier since it is hydrated. I could reduce about 1 lb. by leaving behind my first aid and my repair kit, but SAFETY CONCERNS prevent this.
My full pack weight, including food, water, fuel, etc. is typically 28 - 30 lbs at the start of a trip. For me this is much, much more comfortable during the hike and at the end of each day that the 40+ pounds that I was carrying 6 - 8 years ago.
whitefoot_hp
07-28-2008, 17:23
Other than the bag, whats real expensive? A rucksack can hold the weight and its cheaper than most packs (and I am a firm believer in quality sleeping bags, something that no one should forego the cost of)
shelter, cookware, clothing, i guess we are now venturing into what climate, season, and conditions we are wanting to hike in.
taildragger
07-28-2008, 18:35
shelter, cookware, clothing, i guess we are now venturing into what climate, season, and conditions we are wanting to hike in.
Right, for 3 season it's fairly cheap. 4 season, (depending on how bad you're winter is) could get costly.
Minimalism is intended to be an attempt to achieve a better balance, not a better extreme. It is at best a reaction to excess in materialism, not a condemnation of material itself, or the desire to aquire and use such material. It is still guided by utility and aesthetics. It does contain within it the assertion that the status quo is out of balance, in the opposite direction, perhaps because of modern societies tendency to do so. It is thus often perceived incorrectly by that society as an attempt towards an extreme, rather than an attempt at a more natural balance. Everyone has to find their own better balance though. In that sense, everyone is a minimalist, amongst other things.
Very well put. Almost too well...:-?
Safety is the most important factor when choosing equipment. I climbed in India and Switzerland and got the best stuff. I have a mix in gear, my pack comes to 20 lbs (ex f&w). I can live with that in the morning. by the late afternoon I could throw out some stuff.
Assuming FSO:
Budget is likely about 70% for me.
Lighten actual pack weight by 1.5 Lbs = around $135.00
Lighten over quilt by 1 Lb = around $135.00
Lighten boots by less than a lb = around $100.00 a pair ($0.20 a mile?)
Yea, I could switch from the kilt at 1.2 Lbs to running shorts at 0.2 Lbs, but that ain't hapening :p
I AM NOT GIVING UP MY TREKKING POLES,,, EVER!
Could carry 4 tent stakes instead of 10, but I have set up camp in a sheltered location where I still needed 6 tie outs, AND have: lost, bent, destroyed tent stakes on trips, so, , , , ,
I think for a longer than 3 day trip, I'm stuck with 28 Lbs FSO (with food & water) for now.
i'm b/t 29-32 lbs with 2L water and 8 lbs of food. i'm pleased w/ that
i could probably go lighter, but like doctari and others, i take too many comforts b/c i want to...
-cell phone. i take this b/c my girl asked me to. she supports my hiking but is scared for me when i go out. this comforts her and so i comply. a text message now and then is good for her, and that my friends, is good for me
-BA insulated aircore. i take this b/c i don't like to feel broken in the morning when i wake
-steripen. b/c i'd rather not chance getting explosive diarriah
-camera tripod/weird bendy arm attach to anything thingy. so i can get some decent photos when alone
-nalgene. b/c **** gatorade
Money. Most of the ultralight gear is way too expensive. Only hikers featured in hiking magazines and sponsored by the gear companies can afford it.
Tipi Walter
02-16-2009, 20:56
I started off with Gregory Reality and had it loaded to around 43 lbs. By the time I hit Katahdin some 6 months later I was carrying the Granite Gear Vapor Trail and my full load with food (4 days worth) and water was 24lbs. That was with my heavier and bulkier warm weather clothing.
'Slogger
Let's say your doing a 10 day trip instead of 4, would your pack be an extra 12 + pounds? Just wonderng. 36 pounds is still pretty light for a 10 day winter trip. Of course you'd have to add in extra fuel, etc.
For me, 10% of body weight feels light. 15% is okay. >20% makes hiking uphill feel like a lot more work.
Here's a good quote from Bill Straka, trail guru on Trailspace.com:
"If the Old Greybeard can struggle up the trail with 100 pounds of climbing gear, camping gear, and food in my 60s and at 150 pounds, surely a youngun can carry more than 5/6 of their body weight. I don't do it regularly, but still do it 2 or 3 times a summer when I want to do something challenging in the Sierra. That's 8-10 mile approaches and 2-3000 ft to the campsite. Of course, I use the next day as a rest day/acclimatization day, and it does take quite a few hours to crawl up the trail. But I am far from the only one doing this sort of thing."
"In winter, when playing Scout leader and hence carrying an extra sleeping bag, tent, and clothing for the youth who inevitably gets soaked plus extra food and fuel for those who goofed on the meal planning, I usually have 45 pounds in the pack and 80-90 in the sled."
"Also, look thru any year of National Geographic and at the climbing expedition reports--porters in the Andes, Himalayas, and elsewhere regularly carry close to their body weight, often in bare feet or flipflops, using a tumpline(none of your fancy internal frame packs)."
"Then again, if we are talking about the usual city-dweller who just gets out on the trail once in a while, then the 1/4 body weight rule is a pretty good one."
Could carry 4 tent stakes instead of 10, but I have set up camp in a sheltered location where I still needed 6 tie outs, AND have: lost, bent, destroyed tent stakes on trips, so, , , , ,
I think for a longer than 3 day trip, I'm stuck with 28 Lbs FSO (with food & water) for now.
When you say longer than a 3 day trip at 28 pounds, are you talking of a 10 day trip? 12 days? And what happens when you decide to set up on an open bald in a windstorm, do you take all 10 stakes just in case?
i'm b/t 29-32 lbs with 2L water and 8 lbs of food. i'm pleased w/ that
i could probably go lighter, but like doctari and others, i take too many comforts b/c i want to...
When you say 8 pounds of food, are you talking about a 3 or 4 day trip? I can relate to wanting to take comfort items, for me this translates into books, a beefy thermarest(around 3 pounds), a subzero bag and all else. This allows me to both hike and camp, and keeps me moving daily doing reasonable mileages.
garlic08
02-16-2009, 21:12
Money. Most of the ultralight gear is way too expensive. Only hikers featured in hiking magazines and sponsored by the gear companies can afford it.
Huh? My first lightweight gear cost: $100 for Campmor 20 bag, 36 oz; $100 for a SMD pack, 20 oz; $160 for Tarptent Virga, 18 oz; $20 for a Z-rest, cut down to 6 oz, so the "big four" cost $380 (in 2003 dollars) and weighed 80 oz or 5 pounds (not too much more than a single heavy tent, and less than some packs). My stove cost nothing, my clothing is by Goodwill, my knife cost a nickel.... Shoes are the probably the biggest cost--hiking the AT last year cost four pair of $60 shoes. No sponsorship needed.
I met an AT thru hiker last year whose outfitter told her that to loose a pound cost $100, so to drop 10 pounds off her pack would cost $1000!
When you say 8 pounds of food, are you talking about a 3 or 4 day trip? I can relate to wanting to take comfort items, for me this translates into books, a beefy thermarest(around 3 pounds), a subzero bag and all else. This allows me to both hike and camp, and keeps me moving daily doing reasonable mileages.
i figure 4 day resupply. 2lbs a day for the most part - that is give or take a lb, much like the rest of my pack weight. i don't camp overnight when temps get below 0 so i don't need that beefy thermy or subzero bag
Right now it's budget for me. I am going lighter in stages and as I can afford it. Plus with grandkids who like to backpack I need to purchase multiple items. The first willl be a lighter tent, going from a NF Rocket 22 to several light weight 2 man tents or looking at the golite 4 man trap.
Frick Frack
02-17-2009, 09:12
Scales weigh too much so I have no idea if my gear is too heavy
I have never thought to weigh my gear because I do not have any problems with it. I can go as fast, far & long as I want to so the gear has nothing to do with it. My pack weight could be 15 lbs or 35 lbs....I'll never know.....
skinewmexico
02-17-2009, 10:57
I have just lightened up as the opportunity presented itself, without giving up any comfort. All I have given up is the macho posturing of my pack is 50# heavier than your pack. If you watch sales, it is easy to get great, lightweight gear at great prices. Just match the tool to the job (or season).
Tipi Walter
02-17-2009, 11:10
All I have given up is the macho posturing of my pack is 50# heavier than your pack.
Now, I can't make sense of this sentence.
skinewmexico
02-17-2009, 12:26
All I was trying to say is some people like to brag about how heavy their pack is; it's like a macho thing. Personally, I've given up heavy packs, street racing, and trying to date cheerleaders. It's an age thing. But HYOH.
mtnkngxt
02-17-2009, 14:25
I like light packs, color guard girls, and street racing. My setup cost about $1100 and weighs without food and water for 3 seasons around 11 pounds. I didn't mind spending the money, and now I'm set to go. You don't need a sponsorship, but I'm not going out into the 100 mile wilderness with untested gear and stuff that may or may not make it. Like plastic fast food spoons. Get a GSI spoon or something with some heft. Watched a guy in SNP in 06 drop his wendys spoon accidentally step on it then try to eat rehydrated curry with his fingers out of a soda can pot that wasnt wide enough to get his hand in. Ill drop my Ti spoon hop up and down on it then bend it back into shape. Get light but get serious at the same time.