So you ran into a Park Ranger?? Do tell.....

[Wise Old Owl]

I noticed a few earlier posts & threads about running into authorities on the trail... I am interested in both good & bad experiences, I am thinking it is a rare experience. Most of the folks that patrol parks latley need a gym. I almost fell over while on a back trail last year when they pulled up on a golf cart... How intimidating is that?

Looking forward to your replies.....


Mark

[Gray Blazer]

Now that you mentioned it, they have retired yankees driving golf carts at Alexander Springs (blue blaze off FT) that question your right to be at the park when you blue-blaze in.

[JERMM]

I met a NPS wildlife biologist this spring in the Smokeys. Very nice guy, lots of interesting info about what I was seeing and things to look for. He appeared in very good physical condition and was on foot

[Hikerhead]

We came across a Ranger on the BMT in the Smokies last year. She was a cutie plus she was packing. I bet she drove a truck too. Girls with guns in trucks...it don't get any better. She said that she was suppose to shoot any boars that she saw but didn't think that she could.

Also last year had a Ranger in SNP check out my hiking permit in a parking lot. He was cool. He gave me an A- for filling out my permit correctly but down graded me because I kept two copies instead of just one.

[rafe]

Many many years ago... in the Whites, near Madison hut, I think. We were camped illegally. The ranger was nice about it, and gave us a choice: get a ticket (a federal crime, we were told) or pack up and walk to the hut. We chose the latter.

[MOWGLI]

I work closely with NPS folks as a trail Crew Leader. My experiences have almost always been positive. Here in Chattanooga, I work with a great ranger. This evening, I worked with a retired NPS Ranger. He cut out 4 blowdowns on a trail we're restoring here in the military park.

[Plodderman]

I have ran into two. One at Thomas Knob Shelter in June and another in the Smokies last year. The Ranger at Thomas Knob was great as he said he hiked twenty the day before and was very informative and seemed to be in excellent shape. The Ranger in the Smokies was a Ridge Runner and man he had the biggest calves I have ever seen. He did the Smokies in three or four days a couple of times a summer. Nothing but respect for those two guys.

[Pedaling Fool]

I was taking a break in the parking lot of Panorama (SNP) and this ranger drove up in his squad car, didn't even get out, and made me show him my permit. He looked really disappointed when I showed it to him, guess he was having a hard time meeting his quota.:eek:

[Furlough]

My several encounters with Rangers in the SNP have always been positive, friendly and informative. As to their appearance and possible condition they were/are: male, female, young, aging, skinny and large - kind of like the rest of America.

Furlough

[mudcap]

Now that you mentioned it, they have retired yankees driving golf carts at Alexander Springs (blue blaze off FT) that question your right to be at the park when you blue-blaze in.

Yankee's... really? I would love some autographs. Do you remember who? Yogi,Mel,Joe ???

[sbennett]

I've met two Rangers in the Smokies who were actually out hunting boar close to Silers Bald shelter. They really couldn't have cared less about the hikers but seeming them walking out of the forest with their shotguns in hand was a bit startling.

Also saw a Ranger a couple years ago in Shenandoah, who, upon seeing me, pulled his car over and demanded to see my permit. Like someone alluded to earlier, he seemed a bit disappointed that I one.

[JAK]

The park rangers and game wardens in Fundy National Park are all super nice. Of course it always helps when your a mom or dad with a small child that's cute as heck. They give you a break wherever they can and are primarily interested in your safety and just want to know where you might be and if your going to be in the park or coming or going.

The Whites sound like there still run by the Sherriff of Nottingham or King George.
Thought you guys won that one. ;)

[Egads]

I've had several ranger encounters on trails other than the AT.

One in Olympics was all business; "let me see your permit".

One in Glacier's back country was really cool. He asked where we were headed, then discussed the trail and the maintainers progress for 5-10 minutes since the high country was still in winter conditions. Made sure we had ice axes. He never asked for our permit.

After hiking from Many Glacier over a couple of passes and down to Goat Haunt, we were interviewed by the station ranger about trail conditions since we were the first to pass thru Stoney Indian Pass in about a week. The ranger was particularly interested in wildlife sightings and the pics on our camera. It is nice to assist in the website trail conditions updates.

Egads

[mudcap]

Yankee's... really? I would love some autographs. Do you remember who? Yogi,Mel,Joe ???

Good info everyone...I am still looking for the Yankees. :confused:

[tight-wad]

Last spring ('07), 3 rangers/ridgerunners in 6 days in the Smokies. All very nice, and all were probably in better shape than me!;) In 3 years of off and on hiking on the AT, those are the only officials I've ever seen while hiking (except Philmont, which doesn't count).

[Hikerhead]

Lots of them Yankees live around here now or are they called Damn Yankees. hehe just kidding:)

Looks like everyone agrees that those Rangers out there are pretty decent folks.

[mudcap]

Lots of them Yankees live around here now or are they called Damn Yankees. hehe just kidding:)

Looks like everyone agrees that those Rangers out there are pretty decent folks.

Damn Yankees? I must be dense...

[Wonder]

I was banned from Valley Forge Park for a year after getting caught peeing in the woods.........I was pretty far into a hike too! The ranger was pretty young and gungho.....I'm guessing he was new.

[Wise Old Owl]

OK lets try really hard to stay on topic - Cannot afford a thread swerve..

Now back to your regular scheduled question - Park Rangers.

Sorry to hear that Wonder - Valley Forge really never has its act together, I have "accidentally walked down a trail to see a x rated Photographer with a nature subject" about three times now, I stay away from that park now, (secretly it is a bit of a dump with the asbestos thing & all)

[Big Sky]

I've run into a few and all but one were nice folks. I, too, had an experience with a boar-hunter. She had a big shotgun and she was about 6'2'' but she had one of those little baby voices...sortof creeped me out a little but she was really cool.

My latest encounter was actually two rangers in the same trip. One stopped to make sure things were okay with my boyfriend and me because we had pulled over, just to be nice. We were double checking the map to make sure we were going the right way (we were). He was pretty hot too...anyway, the other one we saw on the trail and he warned us that he had seen two small, loner black bears and to be sure to hang our food. As we were nearing camp that night we ran into a black bear mother and her two adorable cubs. No harm came of it -- she just growled and the cubs climbed the trees and we went slowly on our way.

Park rangers are usually pretty cool people to chat with IMO. You can always ask them for useful information like if any water sources are dry or if there's been a lot of wildlife activity. They always have good stories :D

[fiddlehead]

I remember one time when i was hiking in Maine one day in a slight drizzle and passing one of the many lakes there. I heard a voice in the middle of nowhere so stopped and went off trail a bit to check it out.
Saw a ranger there hiding behind a tree with a 2 way radio and he was saying: they're getting out of their boat, can't make out what their using.
I stepped up and said: Hello, mind if i ask what you were doing? He said they were keeping and eye on the fisherman there and making sure they were using artificial lures only. They were at least 2 miles from the nearest road.

Can think of lots of stories. Her's another one from my first PCT hike:
Hiking with Rainman (of VT) he likes to get up early and get out of camp by 5 am. Then we get our hiking in and usually stop fairly early in the day.

One day we stopped just on the other side of a fairly big ford and set up camp. Now, hiking with Rainman has it's perks. He carries powered speakers, Blueman carried a walkman and I had my Martin Backpacker and we had just left Tuolumme so we had some good snacks along. So, we built a fire, it's about 3 or 4 in the afternoon and there were about 5 tents set up and jamming to some pink floyd. Rainman was mixing his famous Bicardi's 151 rum and cool aid (with water)
This ranger comes along and takes off his boots and socks, puts his boots (big leather ones) back on without the socks, does the ford, and comes up to us and says: "What do you think you guys are doing?" We told him we were thru-hiking the PCT and he said: " yeah right, permits please. We all got out our permits and even 78 year old "Batch" was with us and we all showed them to him. He didn't say a word, just put his socks back on and continued along.

[Nearly Normal]

Saw several one day on the Foothills Trail.
They were looking for an overdue hiker. Ask us to keep an eye out as well. Thats the only time I've ever seen one on any trail.
All seemed professional and nice people.

As far as hunting hogs in the Smokies. That's the kind of job I need after retirement. Where do I sign up?

[LIhikers]

I've only had one experience with LEOs on the A.T., I'm nor sure if they were rangers or police officers. There were two of them on 2 ATVs trying to catch up to some people on horses. They asked us if we'd seen the folks on horseback and when I said yes they followed up with how long since the horses had gone by. We told them it had been 10 or 15 minutes and off they went on their ATVs.

[RockyBob]

I worked as a Seasonal Ranger with the NPS during the summers while in college. Most visitors to the parks who committed violations, really didn't know that they were. We always kept things cool and low key. You wanted to let people have the best experience possible.

[rafe]

Good book about life as a ranger in a California state park: "Nature Noir" by Jordan Smith. A good read.

[brotheral]

Last August I hiked from Newfound Gap to Charlies Bunion. Two very pleasant Park Staff were at the bunion talking with hikers. I believe one of them (in the background) was the backcountry / trails superintendent. They were on an overnight trip putting new signs up at various locations. It was a pleasure talking with them. :sun

[NICKTHEGREEK]

I was with a group of 8 scouts and 2 other adults backpacking from Harpers Ferry to DC. We were on our last overnight of the trip at the campground at Swain's Lock. The kids bought a couple of hook, line, sinker,and doughball rigs at the store there and commenced to anglin'.
A Park service ranger came by and we started chatting. About that time one of the kids got a bite. We both waked over to the kid and fish, the kid asked me to hold the stick with the line tied to it. As soon as I grabbed it, Ranger Rick asked to see my fishing license. I said I don't have one, I'm not fishing. Oh yes you are was the reply from our Federal protector. The guy was actually going to cite me till the boys practically humiliated him for being a jerk and setting a horrible example of abuse of power. I used to complain that kids were far more versed in their rights than in their responsibilities, but those guys saved me a day in court and a fine. Sometimes over privileged yuppie spawn are ok.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

I've only had one experience with LEOs on the A.T., I'm nor sure if they were rangers or police officers. There were two of them on 2 ATVs trying to catch up to some people on horses. They asked us if we'd seen the folks on horseback and when I said yes they followed up with how long since the horses had gone by. We told them it had been 10 or 15 minutes and off they went on their ATVs.
The rangers had no clue if the horses were responsible for the hoof prints and steamin' piles of turds under the tires of the ATV huh?

[wilconow]

"But, you can get pretty close" - NC State Ranger to me after I calmly suggested there should be an indication that the summit of Mt. Mitchell is closed at the base of the trail, 3600 ft down at the bottom.

I expected him to at least understand my frustration at not being able to get to the very top

[beeman]

Good book about life as a ranger in a California state park: "Sierra Noir" by Jordan Smith. A good read.

I'm odering t today. Looked for it online and it's "Nature Noir".;) Looks like a great read.

[rafe]

I'm odering t today. Looked for it online and it's "Nature Noir".;) Looks like a great read.

You're right -- the title is Nature Noir. My mistake. Here's the Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=sierra+noir&x=16&y=22) link.

[beeman]

I was out in Eastern Oregon when a Forest ranger drove up and was going to cite me and the three Law Enforcement Officers who were camping out there. We came down a road, which had an open gate, drifted over with snow. She said we were illegally camped in an elk calving area. The LEO's asked her for some slack and said we would move immediately. She was adamant about ticketing us all. They were concerned for their jobs, and were going to go to the federal magistrate to fight the ticket. A month later, before we ever got to court, we received a notice to ignore the ticket since it was invalid. It was indeed an elk calving area and illegal to drive into..... in the SPRING...WHEN THE ELK CALVE! Not in January!!! The two sheriff's deputies later ran into some other Forest ranger deputies who said she was a new ranger and a pain in the a**. So much for the learning curve.

[MOWGLI]

Good book about life as a ranger in a California state park: "Nature Noir" by Jordan Smith. A good read.


I'm odering t today. Looked for it online and it's "Nature Noir".;) Looks like a great read.

Just ordered it too. Thanks for the recommendation. I purchased The Laws Field Guide to the Sierra Nevada (http://www.amazon.com/Sierra-Nevada-California-Academy-Sciences/dp/159714052X) for my upcoming stroll in the Sierra. It's an excellent book. If Nature Noir arrives by next Tuesday, I'm taking that on my trip too.

[MOWGLI]

THE LAST SEASON (http://www.amazon.com/Last-Season-P-S-Eric-Blehm/dp/0060583010/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1216300106&sr=8-1) by Eric Blehm is another non-fiction book I'd highly recommend. I read it, gave it away, then purchased it for the company gift exchange last Christmas. My boss ended up with the book and really enjoyed it.

[Captain America]

A few summers ago, me and a friend shared a shelter on the Northville-Placid trail with a Adirondaks ranger. He was our age (22 at the time) and seemed a bit bored of being in the wilderness and starved for conversation. He built the sweetest campfire I have ever seen and then told us about a secret swimming spot on Long Lake about a quarter mile away. When we returned, he pulled out two bottles of Captain Morgan that he "had to confiscate from the previous shelter." One of the best nights I've ever had hiking. In the morning he gave us all the food he had left. I assume he just "confiscated" some more at the next shelter.

[rafe]

FWIW, Jordan Smith has first-hand observations about mountain lions and Lyme disease, as well.

[Flush2wice]

Had a run in with an overofficious TVA cop at Fontana one time. He confiscated my unopened traveler that was under the drivers seat locked in my truck in the parking lot. I was at the shelter when the interrogation began. I've heard of lots of similar stories there. You'd think if they didn't Hiker Trash, they'd get rid of the shelter that they built.
I had to drive to Bryson City the next morning to resupply before starting my hike.
I know TVA cops aren't rangers, but they have jurisdiction on that tiny little stretch of Trail.

[The Old Fhart]

"Had a run in with an overofficious TVA cop at Fontana one time. He confiscated my unopened traveler that was under the drivers seat locked in my truck in the parking lot. I was at the shelter when the interrogation began...."Why do I get the feeling there is lots more to this story? :-?

[Gray Blazer]

Yankee's... really? I would love some autographs. Do you remember who? Yogi,Mel,Joe ???

Come to think of it :-? I think they were Boston Red Sox.

Bob, the ridge-runner in the Smokies 2002 was a good guy. He was telling us about the things he hauls out of Icewater Springs shelter cuz it's so close to Newfound. People, stop dragging ad leaving things at Icewater Shelter.

[notorius tic]

I was just at the first shelter outside"north" of Standing Bear Farms last year sitting down at a busted picnic table cooking lunch.. (with Freebird, Moses) when I look up an there is a gun "holsterd" in my face.. well Freebird was smoking a pipe, An the response from the cool Ranger was whats you smoking in their? Hey Free replies American Spirt tobbaco.. Would you like some .. Ranger replies shure An that chat bagan. Nice fellow checks that land 2 times a week.. ON HORSE BACK.. Thats how i did not here him coming.. Told me about a great place to get bible feed an BLUEBERRY PANCAKES.. Keep on Hiking..

[Gray Blazer]

Edward Abbey was a park ranger. I'll bet he was cool to run into out in the woods.

[A-Train]

An entry from my PCT journal, encounter with a local ranger.http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=211874 (http://http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=211874)

[MOWGLI]

An entry from my PCT journal, encounter with a local ranger.http://http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=211874

Correct link - http://trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=211874

[Wise Old Owl]

Awesome, he had no idea why the privy was there in the first place...

[notorius tic]

Thats a good 0ne

[Mags]

I have two ranger stories. One rather innocuous. One that is along the lines of "DOH!"




The first story took place on the PCT in 2002. I am chilling by a lake when a ranger comes up to me. Mid-20s. Cute. Female...I ain't complaining

She says "How are you doing?"
Mags: Great!
Ranger: Looks like you are hiking the PCT
Mags: Sure am.
Ranger: That's cool. So I have two questions to ask you...
(MAgs thinks uh oh!)
Do you have a permit? And what are you doing for bears?
Mags: I do indeed have my PCT permit AND, I make sure I camp below 9600' every night and hang my food.
Ranger: I am glad some PCT hikers are paying attention to regulations...

I did not have the heart to tell her that while I was indeed carrying a permit, my bear bagging became a bit lazy in the Sierra. :) (I would NOT do this know though...six years later, it is a different climate in the Sierra).



Story #2 -

In the late fall of 2000, I was a despondent boy. My first serious love had ended the relationship in the summer. I was heartbroken.

A friend from work expressed interest in backpacking at some point. To get my mind of my mental state for at least a weekend, I took to the woods and took a friend under my wing.

The trip went well with no hitches.

At the end of the trip, there is a very young ranger (I was 26 at the time, I suspect she was perhaps 22?) in the parking lot. Blonde, petite, girl-next-door looking type. Looked a bit like my ex-girlfriend.

We chatted. Some chemistry. She said "I am new to this park. I wish I knew someone who knows the park a bit better than me. I'd like to know of some good hikes".

What did I say? Did I jump at the chance to show the young lady some of my favorite hikes?

Of course not. I said "I'm sure you'll meet someone!"

We get back to the car. My buddy says "ARE YOU AN IDIOT ?!?!?"

Mags: What do you mean?

My buddy had to break down the obvious that I honestly did not catch on.

As we drove by the trailhead, the ranger popped out of the woods and gave me a quizical "ARe you you that clueless?!?!?" look. :o

Eight years ago..I was a bit heartbroken (mopey?), shy and clueless around women.

Eight years later, I am no longer heartbroken. I am not nearly as shy. But man..I am still clueless! :D

[NICKTHEGREEK]

I have two ranger stories. One rather innocuous. One that is along the lines of "DOH!"




The first story took place on the PCT in 2002. I am chilling by a lake when a ranger comes up to me. Mid-20s. Cute. Female...I ain't complaining

She says "How are you doing?"
Mags: Great!
Ranger: Looks like you are hiking the PCT
Mags: Sure am.
Ranger: That's cool. So I have two questions to ask you...
(MAgs thinks uh oh!)
Do you have a permit? And what are you doing for bears?
Mags: I do indeed have my PCT permit AND, I make sure I camp below 9600' every night and hang my food.
Ranger: I am glad some PCT hikers are paying attention to regulations...

I did not have the heart to tell her that while I was indeed carrying a permit, my bear bagging became a bit lazy in the Sierra. :) (I would NOT do this know though...six years later, it is a different climate in the Sierra).



Story #2 -

In the late fall of 2000, I was a despondent boy. My first serious love had ended the relationship in the summer. I was heartbroken.

A friend from work expressed interest in backpacking at some point. To get my mind of my mental state for at least a weekend, I took to the woods and took a friend under my wing.

The trip went well with no hitches.

At the end of the trip, there is a very young ranger (I was 26 at the time, I suspect she was perhaps 22?) in the parking lot. Blonde, petite, girl-next-door looking type. Looked a bit like my ex-girlfriend.

We chatted. Some chemistry. She said "I am new to this park. I wish I knew someone who knows the park a bit better than me. I'd like to know of some good hikes".

What did I say? Did I jump at the chance to show the young lady some of my favorite hikes?

Of course not. I said "I'm sure you'll meet someone!"

We get back to the car. My buddy says "ARE YOU AN IDIOT ?!?!?"

Mags: What do you mean?

My buddy had to break down the obvious that I honestly did not catch on.

As we drove by the trailhead, the ranger popped out of the woods and gave me a quizical "ARe you you that clueless?!?!?" look. :o

Eight years ago..I was a bit heartbroken (mopey?), shy and clueless around women.

Eight years later, I am no longer heartbroken. I am not nearly as shy. But man..I am still clueless! :D

Won't get too much better as a function of time, at least in my experience. Great tale. shame it didn't end up spelled differently.;)

[Erin]

The rangers we met doing the below the rim backpacking in the Grand Canyon were friendly and incredibly fit. Male and female. Packing and carrying extra fluid since dehydration is an issue for some people. We saw four or five of them on our trip. One guy that came to our camp site checked our permits, then hung around and told us the fun evacuation stories they handled, explained the animal trails, last cougar sightings in the area, etc. He would not accept any food or drink.
The ones in Arkansas and Missouri have been very friendly and helpful. In Arkansas, we witnessed a natural causes death on the river and a ranger came to our camp site and hung out with us for several hours just to be nice and check on the lady in our group that spend an hour doing mouth to mouth and CPR on a dead man. All of the rangers I have encountered have been very professional. We saw none on our AT section hike.

[Flush2wice]

Why do I get the feeling there is lots more to this story? :-?
Here's the full story. I was starting a winter hike from Fontana to Newfound. I had just got there. It was getting dark. First night plan was to stay in the shelter. Left the booze in the truck because I had to backtrack through the parking lot to start the hike. I was saving it for the hike. TVA cop shows up. Conversation starts out fine. "Where ya from?", "What's your plan?", then comes the "You got any firearms in your possession?", "Illegal substances?", "Alcohol?" When he said alcohol instead of saying no, I said "not on me." I thought why would he give a krap if I had an unopened bottle locked in my truck way up there in the parking lot. I figured he'd appreciate my honesty.
He rewarded my honesty by issuing me a "warning" citation instead of one that carried a fine. Then he confiscated the bottle.

[dessertrat]

I was banned from Valley Forge Park for a year after getting caught peeing in the woods.........I was pretty far into a hike too! The ranger was pretty young and gungho.....I'm guessing he was new.

Is there a rule against peeing in the woods as long as you don't expose yourself to someone?

[Flush2wice]

Is there a rule against peeing in the woods as long as you don't expose yourself to someone?
Only guys are allowed to pee in the woods. I thought everyone knew that.

[dessertrat]

I remember one time when i was hiking in Maine one day in a slight drizzle and passing one of the many lakes there. I heard a voice in the middle of nowhere so stopped and went off trail a bit to check it out.
Saw a ranger there hiding behind a tree with a 2 way radio and he was saying: they're getting out of their boat, can't make out what their using.
I stepped up and said: Hello, mind if i ask what you were doing? He said they were keeping and eye on the fisherman there and making sure they were using artificial lures only. They were at least 2 miles from the nearest road.

Are you sure that was a "ranger", or could it have been a game warden? I am surprised that he didn't just hail the boat and ask them to pull up, and then ask what they were using for bait/lures. But maybe he knew these guys and knew they had been trouble before.

[4eyedbuzzard]

My only "run in" was in NJ in 1992. I was using a Zip stove at Mashipacong(sp?) Shelter and a state ranger came to check out the smoke. He told me to go ahead and finish cooking but to then put it out and not use it again - that it was a violation of fire rules. Don't know if they still consider the Zip unacceptable or not in NJ/NY, the Zip wasn't very common back then.

[Wise Old Owl]

Is there a rule against peeing in the woods as long as you don't expose yourself to someone?


Thanks for Asking.. VF has tremendous difficulties "policing" stuff, I cannot reveal how I know at this time but they have budget problems and a clear inability to cover their assigned territory. Quite a lot of men get arrested for exposure and very rarely a few women. This issue also exists for nearby parks. Only FV isn't as good as the local officers or they are hiding the ARREST numbers because they are national.


*THIS POST IS FROM CLEAR NUMBERS POSTED NOT FROM THE INTERNET BUT SOURCES IN THE LOCAL PAPER. IT IS HIKING RELATED AS SEVERAL PARKS IN THE AREA ARE CLEARLY BEING HIKED IN, IT IS NOT "AT" RELATED. SOURCES INCLUDE DAILY LOCAL OF CHESTER COUNTY & DELCO OF DELAWARE COUNTY.

[Cookerhiker]

Last month toting my weedwacker for my section in Shenandoah NP, I ran into about a dozen rangers. Why so many? They were all young and likely seasonal hires. The NPS has authority & resources to hire numerous seasonals over the next 8 years in preparation for their Centenial. On this day they were getting lessons from a biologist on the plants of SNP.

On my JMT hike in '06, I met two women Forest Service Rangers at separate locations. One let me pass, the other didn't check my permit but wanted to make sure I had my bear canister.

My GF is an NPS ranger so every time we hike together, I'm seeing a Ranger.:) Of course she's off-duty then.

[Stir Fry]

You should not have given him permission to look in the trunk. I'm a cop and I am always amazed at how ofton people give me permission to look in the trunk, in the vehicle, or to search them. Half the charges police make could be avoided just by politly saying "No you can not search me or my vehicle/pack." If we have PC we will search. If we ask and you say no we mite get pissed, but do you realy car. I would'ent.
quote=Flush2wice;667648]Here's the full story. I was starting a winter hike from Fontana to Newfound. I had just got there. It was getting dark. First night plan was to stay in the shelter. Left the booze in the truck because I had to backtrack through the parking lot to start the hike. I was saving it for the hike. TVA cop shows up. Conversation starts out fine. "Where ya from?", "What's your plan?", then comes the "You got any firearms in your possession?", "Illegal substances?", "Alcohol?" When he said alcohol instead of saying no, I said "not on me." I thought why would he give a krap if I had an unopened bottle locked in my truck way up there in the parking lot. I figured he'd appreciate my honesty.
He rewarded my honesty by issuing me a "warning" citation instead of one that carried a fine. Then he confiscated the bottle.[/quote]

[Stir Fry]

Here's the full story. I was starting a winter hike from Fontana to Newfound. I had just got there. It was getting dark. First night plan was to stay in the shelter. Left the booze in the truck because I had to backtrack through the parking lot to start the hike. I was saving it for the hike. TVA cop shows up. Conversation starts out fine. "Where ya from?", "What's your plan?", then comes the "You got any firearms in your possession?", "Illegal substances?", "Alcohol?" When he said alcohol instead of saying no, I said "not on me." I thought why would he give a krap if I had an unopened bottle locked in my truck way up there in the parking lot. I figured he'd appreciate my honesty.
He rewarded my honesty by issuing me a "warning" citation instead of one that carried a fine. Then he confiscated the bottle.


You should not have given him permission to look in the trunk. I'm a cop and I am always amazed at how ofton people give me permission to look in the trunk, in the vehicle, or to search them. Half the charges police make could be avoided just by politly saying "No you can not search me or my vehicle/pack." If we have PC we will search. If we ask and you say no we mite get pissed, but do you realy car. I would'ent.

[Odd Thomas]

You should not have given him permission to look in the trunk. I'm a cop and I am always amazed at how ofton people give me permission to look in the trunk, in the vehicle, or to search them. Half the charges police make could be avoided just by politly saying "No you can not search me or my vehicle/pack." If we have PC we will search. If we ask and you say no we mite get pissed, but do you realy car. I would'ent.

If "half the charges police make" are borne not of probable cause but intimidation and not wanting to "piss police off" then we are worse off than China.

I hope you are wrong about that statistic. :)

[Wise Old Owl]

Here's the full story. I was starting a winter hike from Fontana to Newfound. I had just got there. It was getting dark. First night plan was to stay in the shelter. Left the booze in the truck because I had to backtrack through the parking lot to start the hike. I was saving it for the hike. TVA cop shows up. Conversation starts out fine. "Where ya from?", "What's your plan?", then comes the "You got any firearms in your possession?", "Illegal substances?", "Alcohol?" When he said alcohol instead of saying no, I said "not on me." I thought why would he give a krap if I had an unopened bottle locked in my truck way up there in the parking lot. I figured he'd appreciate my honesty.
He rewarded my honesty by issuing me a "warning" citation instead of one that carried a fine. Then he confiscated the bottle.


I observed the same thing with three park officers operating at non established enterence at Algonquin, Canada. They were all over everybody (some fifty people) that were launching canoes or heading out on the trail.

[Stir Fry]

If "half the charges police make" are borne not of probable cause but intimidation and not wanting to "piss police off" then we are worse off than China.

I hope you are wrong about that statistic. :)

No in China they just put you in jail, or kill you. No bond, you just sit in jail until they decide its time to try you.
In the US we need to at least ask.
Half may be a little high, but not mush.
When I ask why they let me search. Most say they thought I would search anyway. Not only would I not search I can not search.
In th US the police need,1. Probable Cause, or 2. Permission. When the police ask if it would be OK to search you have a right to so "NO".
I have taken up to 1Lb. of Marijuana off the street, simply by asking the driver if he minded me searching the vehicle. No Intimidation, just a simple question. I have hade some stop me in the middle of a search and Ask " Do I have to let you search" When I reply no and that I will stop if they wish.
Reply; "No thats OK I just wanted to know". I then procide to locate drugs in the vehicle or on there person.

Don't get mad at the police if you do not know your rights, or the rules that the police have to go by. Most of the time, not all, when people get mad at the police it is becouse they did something that the person thought they could't do, and were wrong.

[rickb]

In your experience (not you, or at your department but in general) how frequent is it that Law Enforcement Officers will lie about having been given permission, when that was not the case.

I would think the temptation would be high if your gut told you a scumbag was hiding something.

[le loupe]

Now if the police and the lay person could only come a concise understanding of what probable cause is- it seems awful vague and open to interpretation to me.

[rickb]

More to the topic of the thread, my wife was asked to produce her trash bag for a WMNF Ranger when she came out of of the Pemi Wilderness Area in the Whites.

I can understand threat the Ranger was frustrated about finding trash in the back country, but this was in the "Live Free or Die" state!

For someone not used to dealing with such things, she interpreted the request as a demand and complied.

[Odd Thomas]

No in China they just put you in jail, or kill you. No bond, you just sit in jail until they decide its time to try you.

In China, they don't do much traffic policing, they don't even have many stop signs, or traffic laws for that matter, even in Beijing. You're not likely to randomly encounter police while driving asking to search you.


When I ask why they let me search. Most say they thought I would search anyway. Not only would I not search I can not search.
In th US the police need,1. Probable Cause, or 2. Permission. When the police ask if it would be OK to search you have a right to so "NO".
I have taken up to 1Lb. of Marijuana off the street, simply by asking the driver if he minded me searching the vehicle. No Intimidation, just a simple question. I have hade some stop me in the middle of a search and Ask " Do I have to let you search" When I reply no and that I will stop if they wish.
Reply; "No thats OK I just wanted to know". I then procide to locate drugs in the vehicle or on there person.

Don't get mad at the police if you do not know your rights, or the rules that the police have to go by. Most of the time, not all, when people get mad at the police it is becouse they did something that the person thought they could't do, and were wrong.That wasn't exactly the tree I was barking up, (re: mad at police), but rather, the ratio of "half of all charges police make" being issued to people who wouldn't have been caught if they had known their rights. The national average for contraband is between 2% and 10% of all charges made, so if your figure is close to the mark where you are, it's a regional anomaly, and you have a huge contraband problem. :)

Anyways, as for Park Rangers and Game Wardens, they don't necessarily have the same restrictions that the Police do. Game Wardens do not need probable cause to search you or your property unless your State specifically requires it. Inconsistent legally, but true. California and Pennsylvania (among others) don't require search warrants for Game Wardens. This varies by State, but the States that don't require probable cause or warrants refer to the Open Fields Doctrine as Federal precedent. This held up in court in Pennsylvania last year after Joseph Russo Jr's property was searched by a Game Warden without a warrant, and the court found against him.

California will tell you outright that they don't need probable cause.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/2172522/California-Fish-and-Game-Warden-Expose-Update
Page 64, paragraph 2:
"Remember, if a warden does stop you, he does not need probable cause or a search warrant to conduct a search of your property unlike other police"

I'm wondering if Park Rangers have the same powers under the Open Fields Doctrine that Game Wardens do. Seeing as how Park Rangers area of duty is 100% on public lands, it's a possibility.

[Chaco Taco]

Was in my tent in PA last week. A group was hanging out drinking after some magic had been brought to us. Group of Game Wardens came up and asked for everyone ID and said that they would be getting a ticket since they were of state game lands and tented too close to the trail. So many people were there and so many tents they didnt search mine so I didnt get one. Lucky for me and my gf, I am a lightweight now and she hates beer.

[Odd Thomas]

I noticed a few earlier posts & threads about running into authorities on the trail... I am interested in both good & bad experiences, I am thinking it is a rare experience. Most of the folks that patrol parks latley need a gym. I almost fell over while on a back trail last year when they pulled up on a golf cart... How intimidating is that?

Here, locally, most are fit. Maybe because they have to use the trails here as no bikes or golf carts are allowed on the trails, and the roads don't go through the park.

I've never had a bad experience with any of them, mostly just weather conversations. :)

[Bearpaw]

I've only had unpleasant encounters with rangers on two occasions. One was totally my fault. I was sleeping in my truck at Sugarlands Visitor Center in the Smokies. The ranger told me to move, so I did.

The other was maybe a case of a hangover after New Year' Eve. A lady at the permit office at Big South Fork was pretty rude when I went in to get a permit at 8 AM on New Year's Day. I got my permit and walked on.

Compared to the literally dozens of great encounters with rangers, in MANY areas from the Smokies to Baxter State Park, from the Shoshone national forest to Yosemite NP to Yellowstone, I can only say good things about rangers. They do a great job on light pay with relatively little resources. Bless 'em I say.

[Skidsteer]

Let's stop the discussion of illegal substances now.

[Jason of the Woods]

Not again. I'm pretty sure that I stayed with the discussion. I give up man.

[Skidsteer]

Not again. I'm pretty sure that I stayed with the discussion.


You were the one advocating and lobbying for it.


I give up man.

Good. That's all you're being asked for. :)

[le loupe]

Group of Game Wardens came up and asked for everyone ID and said that they would be getting a ticket since they were of state game lands and tented too close to the trail.

You would be within your rights in a situation like this not to provide ID. Certainly you must identify yourself, but a driver's license is not required.
Simply provide your name and where you live.

[Skyline]

When you do shuttles in a national park you need a special permit and a whole lot more.

My partner Rodney was recently stopped by a Ranger in SNP as he let some shuttle clients out at a trailhead. The sign on the door reading "Mountain & Valley Shuttle Service" must have given him away. :rolleyes:

Anyway, he first wanted to see his concessioner's permit, issued annually by SNP. Rodney got it out of his briefcase and politely showed it along with a smile.

Next, he wanted to see his proof of commercial insurance. Ditto, with a smile.

He was a very persistent Ranger. He also asked to see his $25,000 surety bond. He seemed a little surprised when Rodney produced it!

He then made a comment about people doing business in the Park illegally, and he was glad we were following all the rules.

We're still not sure if he was happy or aggravated that his search proved us legal.

[George]

got a ride in snp from a motel owner who stops and flirts with the rangers and tries to date them I guess a few dinners is cheeper than permits and insurance

[Skyline]

got a ride in snp from a motel owner who stops and flirts with the rangers and tries to date them I guess a few dinners is cheeper than permits and insurance


Didn't even know motels provided rides back to the Trail around here (Luray/Front Royal). Most don't seem to want anything to do with it.

[rafe]

Didn't even know motels provided rides back to the Trail around here (Luray/Front Royal). Most don't seem to want anything to do with it.

The Quality Inn at Front Royal took me back to the trailhead last summer. No charge. That plus an incredibly fast hitch into town the day before... made for a pleasant stay. The pool was a nice touch.

[Bare Bear]

My experiences have always been good and positive. One Fl Ranger really helped me out as I had about run out of water when the source was out and I had 4 miles the next day w/o water to the next source. The ranger had spent hours tracking me down to bring me 2 beautiful gallons (knowing I would need it) then sat and talked to me for a couple hours in the dark while watching for poachers that had been reported. I don't know if I have the stones to scour the wilderness all night, alone, for guys with guns who know they are going to be in big trouble if caught.

[Christus Cowboy]

I have only had one experience with an armed ranger in the Cumberland National Park when backpacking with my daughter and a couple of her friends. He was very professional and in good shape. He checked our permit and spent a few minutes talking to us and answering some questions we had about trail conditions further up the trail as well as some bear activity that had bee reported in the park a couple of weeks earlier.

[ki0eh]

Was in my tent in PA last week. A group was hanging out drinking after some magic had been brought to us. Group of Game Wardens came up and asked for everyone ID and said that they would be getting a ticket since they were of state game lands and tented too close to the trail. So many people were there and so many tents they didnt search mine so I didnt get one. Lucky for me and my gf, I am a lightweight now and she hates beer.

Too CLOSE to the A.T.? Or to a road? The regulation on PA SGL is http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.42.html and prescribes no minimum distance from the trail. (But the "no beer" or etc. is here: http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/058/chapter135/s135.41.html )

[trouthunter]

Hi all, New here.
I usually seek out the Rangers before my trips if possible, so I can pick their brains, doesn't hurt to come calling with some type of gift either, granola bars, map sealer, ect.
I have been backpacking for 26 yrs. and this is a great way to get good current info.
Sometimes they are busy and you just say your howdies and hit the trail.
Park Rangers have rules to enforce, but a lot of the time they won't hassle you if you don't cause them a problem, or aren't acting the fool. Even if you are bending the rules sometimes.
I used to go to Savage Gulf State Park in TN, Ranger there used to cut up with the kids. He once asked my son if he knew what the Chinese word for constipation was,
my son replied "no I don't", The ranger said "hung chow", my son thought the ranger was so cool!

[twosticks]

The most memorable encounter with a ranger was in Harpers Ferry at the little diner up the hill. I walked in with my two small children (aged 4 and 3 at the time) They were real excited that there were park rangers there, so the ranger came over and did the magic quarter in the ear trick. My son has been in love with Rangers since.

[Egads]

I recently took a trip to Zion NP with the family and had a reservation for a campsite in the Narrows http://www.zionnationalpark.com/park_images/narrowsBreck_large.jpg. Unfortunately, the weather wasn't cooperating and the forecast was 60-70% chance of rain, which increased the potential for flash floods. So, we took a permit for CS #8 on the West Rim Trail. We headed over to the outfitter to cancel our shuttle for the Narrows. They suggested that we take a van to the trailhead at the top of the West Rim Trail and hike downhill instead of hiking uphill. I agreed since my wife and oldest daughter were hiking with us.

We caught the shuttle early the next morning and enjoyed the history & sociology lessons from our driver whose family had lived in the valley for 4-5 generations. He dropped us off in 40 deg temps, no humidity, and sunny skies. Great hiking weather. We hiked for awhile and were very surprised to reach camp by 10:00 AM. After a short family meeting, we voted to continue hiking South back to the North fork Virgin River. My wife grew tired with the backpack, so I gave her a break and carried two packs. We saw only 3 other hikers all day as we continued hiking until we reached the last campsite CS #1 and the only one with water. It was 3:00 and we decided to make camp.

We had put up 2 tents and my son and daughter were off getting water when a LEO walked up and asked "are you sure that you are at the right campsite?" We knew that we weren't and replied no and that the campsite was still open when we picked up our permit. I asked if he knew if anyone was planning to use the campsite, and he replied, "yes, I am". He started asking questions and indicated he was going to issue a citation, so I asked, if he would spare us the trouble if we packed up and moved on. He agreed and we moved on.

My wife and daughter (non-hikers) completed 17 miles that day. My son & I made it 18 after the round trip up Angels Landing. http://www.alpinedave.com/zion/prodigalson/angels_landing.jpg http://www.myutahtravel.com/my_files/image/585px-Zion_angels_landing_view.jpg

I considered the day a success, my wife called it something else.

We hiked the Narrows the next day after the front passed through.

[10-K]

Was changing shirts about 10 miles south of Tricorner Knob in GSMP when a ranger walked up. We talked for a few minutes, he looked at my permit and we parted ways.

Nice guy.

[Swofford11]

Was in Uwharria national forest with my wife who is not that experienced in hiking.

We had about two hours left in our three day hike. We came across a ranger burning the underbrush on the path we were hiking on. No where along the trail did they say they were burning that day.

The ranger looks at us and tells us to go back the way we came. I tried to explain to him that we could not turn around and walk three days out since we were out of food. He said he didn't care and that we had to walk back the way we came.

So we turned around and walked about a half mile down the trail waited till he left and walked through the fire. IT was about a three minute walk through the brush burn and we were out of it. I was a little irritated to say the least. If he was worried about our safety he should have just walked us the three minutes through the brush burn or at least taken us in his truck on the fire road around the burning part.

My wife still want let me forget that trip.

[mudhead]

I hope you reported the incident.

Most I have run into just want to go home at the end of the day.

[garbanz]

Last year on the JMT far from the Yosemite crowds I took a lunchbreak on a log over the inlet stream to picturesque Purple Lake. I was thinking about fishing for trout when I noticed a uniformed ranger heading down the lakeshore trail I had hiked along minutes before.
She was of native American origin and using a spade shovel as hiking stick. She had her trusty canine companion at her side and proudly said he was 14 years old and still getting around pretty good. We exchanged greetings. She asked a question about my pack and then she made her way on down the trail at a respectable pace that impressed me given the distance from trail entrypoints. Further down the trail at Virginia Lake I spotted her heading down the camping area side trail presumably to use her shovel to bury hiker waste. She had remarked during our brief encounter that her ranger job was, at times, comparable to a glorified janitor. However the lasting impression of her outdoor character sticks with me with a great deal of respect.

[Doctari]

I think "Be Overofficious at all times" is in the TVA cop job description.

I thinkit was in 99:
0300 (AM) 7 of us were roused from a deep sleep by 1 State Police Officer & 2 TVA cops. The NC State guy was nice, The TVA cops held guns on us (she a 18 gage 2 barrel shotgun he a 9 mil handgun) & were less than pleasant. The state guy had to tell them to "Put em away".


Had a run in with an overofficious TVA cop at Fontana one time. He confiscated my unopened traveler that was under the drivers seat locked in my truck in the parking lot. I was at the shelter when the interrogation began. I've heard of lots of similar stories there. You'd think if they didn't Hiker Trash, they'd get rid of the shelter that they built.
I had to drive to Bryson City the next morning to resupply before starting my hike.
I know TVA cops aren't rangers, but they have jurisdiction on that tiny little stretch of Trail.

[DAJA]

Not a ranger related story but similar..

Several years ago I was doing a 4 day canoe paddle down the St. Croix River which divides Maine and NB, Canada. On day two I hear the thump thump thump of a helicopter off in the distance behind me and within minutes feel the down draft from the blades as it cruises overhead. I pay no attention and carry on or rather allow the river to guide me along.

About half an hour later I round a bend just before the flat water begins and see the US Border Services Helicopter sitting on Rock Island in the centre of the river with two Border Patrol Officer's standing on the remainder of this tiny island. As I approach they yell out to me to pull in and provide ID...

Being Canadian, and on an International Heritage River, I payed no attention and mumbled something about international waters as I floated by. They quickly fired up the chopper and a very slow canoe/chopper chase ensued for all of 30 seconds before they pulled off and disappeared over the treeline...

They circled me several more times over the course of the afternoon but never made an attempt to land or stop me again... Very odd, but such is life living in a border community post 9/11...

[D'Artagnan]

... (she a 18 gage 2 barrel shotgun he a 9 mil handgun) & were less than pleasant. The state guy had to tell them to "Put em away".

An "18 GA" is a pretty rare piece.

[Many Walks]

While hiking the Lassen NF last weekend I was wondering how many Rangers actually hike the trails. About 6 miles in the trail merged with the PCT and we came upon a little log cabin just off the trail. As we explored we saw a "Park Ranger" sign. The door was open and we thought someone had broken in, but a ranger came out to greet us. He was a nice guy, friendly, in good shape and must have walked in. We didn't stay long as the cabin was near two lakes and once we stopped the mosquitoes converged on us, but the hike and Ranger experience was good.

[ATBuddy]

Bump!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Berry Belle]

One winter day, my husband and I had hiked longer than we meant to in Michaux State Forest, PA, making a circuit out of the AT and some woods roads. Approaching our car at dusk, we were concerned to see another car sitting next to it with the engine running. We were tired and cold, with nowhere to run to if the guy turned weird. It turned out to be a park ranger who had seen us at another point in our hike, figured this must be our car, and was concerned because we were still out there somewhere. He was waiting to make sure we got back OK. The warm feeling I had on the way home wasn't just from the car heater.

[d3ef]

I've been hiking in the Whites for a long time, and I've never seen a ranger in the backcountry.

[Buffalo Skipper]

Nothing like a bump to a 2 year old thread. ;)

We were out with the scout troop on the Florida Trail (Titi Creek section) on Eglin AFB. We were required to have a permit for overnighters on Air Force property (Eglin is the largest military reservation in the states, FWIW). On the second night we were at a front country (primative--no piped water) campsite when 2 (civilian) military police drove up. They were, as others suggested, surprised when we produced our permit. They scrutinized it and questioned our "educational" status (filled in by the issuing office, weeks before). We explained that we were a Boy Scout troop. They accepted that as "educational," but questioned that we were really boy scouts (the scouts were camped at the other end of the campsite from the adults). After talking for a minute, they accepted out status and drove off, disappointed that we were "legal." :D

[Ladytrekker]

Oh went to a Florida State Park and asked the woman at the gate office what kind of flora and fauna etc was on the hiking trails. She said she had no idea and I said well certainly you have been back there she said she had worked here along time. She tells me know she has never been on the trails and had no idea what it was like back there. Now don't ya think that a park ranger needs to know the park they work in. I hiked the trails so I am thinking I know more about the park than she does.

[adamkrz]

Not a Ranger but a couple of years ago a Ridgerunner in CT. told my wife and I we were stealing bear food by picking wild blueberries.

[Just a Hiker]

I saw alot of "Authorities" on the trail in 2001 and 2002 when everyone was convinced that Eric Rudolph was living on or near the trail.

[Wise Old Owl]

Not a Ranger but a couple of years ago a Ridgerunner in CT. told my wife and I we were stealing bear food by picking wild blueberries.

Yea thats nuts.... Wow I cannot tell you folks how "pleased" it is for someone to dig up a heartwarming thread from the past. This is one of my personal favorites because it's refreshing to see what others see in people doing a very difficult job.

[vamelungeon]

An "18 GA" is a pretty rare piece.
If you see one for sale, let me know.

[fiddlehead]

Seen lot of them. Mostly good experiences.
Only got asked for permits a few times.

THe good ones are there to help you and I've even had one in the "Bob" invite me to a meal as he remembered me from my first thru 4 years before.
Another one in Yellowstone once (had thru'd the AT the year before) turned me on to a great hot spring spot to refresh ourselves.

But had the worst in the same park already. The area of the CDT we were going through had griz activity so they said we had to walk the road instead of the trail. While there, we had 2 park rangers stop us to ask what we were doing, checking permits, giving us a hard time.
When we told them why we were walking the road (because they're backcountry permit office made us) they said they had never heard of the CDT and told us to stay out of trouble that they were going to keep an eye on us. They were more cops (and bad ones) than rangers.

It's just like people in general. There are good and bad everywhere.

[trailmix]

Me and my dog took a ride a few years ago on a forest road off of hwy 181 in NC. Stopped to have lunch, a ranger stopped to check us out and saw a rx bottle in the truck and asked what it was, I told him it was the dogs meds for his ears and he gave me a look like I was an idiot. He asked if he could see the bottle. I said sure and handed it to him. He looks at the bottle (Diesel K9 ) in big letters. His face turned red, he handed me the bottle and took off . He didn’t even tell me to have a nice day. LOL

[restless]

When I first started hiking in the mid 90's, A lot of my trail time was spent near home in the Smokies. Saw a couple of Park Rangers, one of whom was a hog hunter, the other was a backcountry ranger out of Cosby. Skip ahead 15 years later to a different park-Shenandoah NP in Virginia, where I now work. I wonder how many people have seen me working on trails and think to themselves how strange it is for a ranger to be doing trail work.

[Old Boots]

I am going to show my ignorance now. I have a lifetime pass to all National parks and Federal Recreational Lands. Is this sufficient or do I need additional permission to hike in the GSMNP and SNP as well as other national parks that the AT passes thru?

[Majortrauma]

Since we're sort of on this topic here, do the "rules: for reasonable articulable suspicion in a Park or National Forest differ from what would apply to a person outside of the park/Natl Forest?
I don't believe that a leo may detain you or even search you and/or your possessions/pack etc if he does not have reasonable articulable suspicion. What is reasonable articulable suspicion is NOT totally subjective.

[Sly]

One time, before you needed bear canisters, in northern Yosemite a backcountry ranger asked to se my permit and I told him I left it in my girl friends car that visited me at Toulemne Meadows, and if he didn't believe me I was in the system. He seemed to accept that and asked if I knew how to counter balance my food since the bears were active. I told him "of course" and he let me go. What I didn't tell him is I had no rope.

Another time, I had just got back on the trail in the SNP and forgot my food bag at Bear Fence but didn't realize it to Rock Spring Hut. Rather than retrace my steps 11.5 miles back to Bear Fence or even 2 miles to Skyland Drive, I continued and hiked to Skyland where I hope to find a ride back. Upon hearing my story, one ranger that did nature walks agreed to give me a ride when she finished her scheduled walk. The walk didn't get over until it was nearly dark at which time she said she reconsider during her walk and since she didn't know me and there had been murders at the Park in the past she couldn't give me a ride. Yeah, thanks!!

I went back inside and ordered two Rubens sandwiches and kept hiking well past dark. I figured I was just before Marys Rock and camped right in the trail. It's a good thing I stopped as I recall it would have been easy to step off the trail at Marys Rock which was only 100 feet or so from where I camped. The next couple says I survived on Rubens, chicken wings and chips.

[deeddawg]

[...]do I need additional permission to hike in the GSMNP and SNP as well as other national parks that the AT passes thru?

See here: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm

You need a permit for all backcountry camping; particularly all the AT shelters require you make a reservation ahead of time. The exception is for thru-hikers, I don't see the listed definition right now but if I remember correctly it meant starting and ending your hike at least fifty miles beyond each end of the park.

[Doctari]

About 10 - 12 years ago, I met 2 "Park workers" pretty sure they weren't rangers (No badges, no guns, park patches & uniforms though) in GSMNP on the Cucumber ridge trail. Their "Park service" truck was parked on the little river trail. A few years later I met a "Ridge Runner" along the AT N of Newfound gap, spent a few nights in the shelters w him, great guy. Then about 4 years ago I met, very briefly, a SOBO Ridge runner somewhere in VA, I think it was on the S side of Mt Rogers, but would not swear to it. He was talking to some NOBO Thrus who had just came up from getting water (1/2+ mile RT) & as I walked up, he told me of a nice spring a few yards N of where we were, ON THE AT! The other hikers just groaned, "If only we had waited!" It was a very nice spring indeed. :)

[GoldenBear]

> Is this sufficient or do I need additional permission to hike in the GSMNP and SNP

To HIKE you need only to be legally within the Park. I presume you mean to camp outside the fee-based campsites.

You'll need a (free) back-country permit to camp in there, even at a shelter.
http://www.nps.gov/shen/planyourvisit/campbc_permit.htm
You can get one at any entrance station during normal business hours, and it only takes ten minutes to fill it out.

[handlebar]

Ran into a backcountry ranger at Heart Lake in Yellowstone NP during my second chunk of the CDT in August. She was very nice and, finding I was a thru hiker, helped me revise my campsite reservations for the the rest of the park. I found I was making much better time in Yellowstone than down in the Teton wilderness or further south in the Wind River range---maybe because the Jonathan Ley map mileages for that section were accurate. Hah!

[Jim Adams]

In 2002 I was in the Smokies, in shelter in a hard driving rain storm after dark. A ranger came into the shelter with a shotgun, a huge pack (but light) and his .40 side arm. He was very polite and appologized if he was bothering anyone. He was out hunting wild boar and also attempting to narrow the location of a hiker that they had recieved alot of complaints about. He chatted quietly to everyone, heated his dinner and never asked to see a permit. THEN HE RE-DRESSED AND SAID GOODBYE AND WALKED OUT INTO THAT STORM! Those guys are hard core...much respect for them.

geek

[msupple]

Now that you mentioned it, they have retired yankees driving golf carts at Alexander Springs (blue blaze off FT) that question your right to be at the park when you blue-blaze in.

I think mudcap already determined that you aren't referring to retired baseball players in your post so I'd just like to remind you that the war is over....you lost....now please get over it. Every time I head south I encounter numerous references to Yankees, usually in a derogatory form. I've never heard the same about Southerners up North. Frankly, it gets a little old at times.

[Sly]

I found I was making much better time in Yellowstone than down in the Teton wilderness or further south in the Wind River range---maybe because the Jonathan Ley map mileages for that section were accurate. Hah!

I dunno, Yellowstone was much easier than most of the trail and either of those two sections in particular. I can't recall a single climb of any magnitude.

[Sly]

I think mudcap already determined that you aren't referring to retired baseball players in your post so I'd just like to remind you that the war is over....you lost....now please get over it. Every time I head south I encounter numerous references to Yankees, usually in a derogatory form. I've never heard the same about Southerners up North. Frankly, it gets a little old at times.


Couldn't agree more.

[Skyline]

I think mudcap already determined that you aren't referring to retired baseball players in your post so I'd just like to remind you that the war is over....you lost....now please get over it. Every time I head south I encounter numerous references to Yankees, usually in a derogatory form. I've never heard the same about Southerners up North. Frankly, it gets a little old at times.


Are you serious? You've never heard folks up north, or out west, paint Southerners as ignorant rednecks? Mock our accents?

Personally, I can't think of a dumber method to divide people, chastise, or discriminate than by using one's zipcode to define them. That statement could apply to almost any part of the USA.

[Kookork]

We came across a Ranger on the BMT in the Smokies last year. She was a cutie plus she was packing. I bet she drove a truck too. Girls with guns in trucks...it don't get any better. She said that she was suppose to shoot any boars that she saw but didn't think that she could.

Also last year had a Ranger in SNP check out my hiking permit in a parking lot. He was cool. He gave me an A- for filling out my permit correctly but down graded me because I kept two copies instead of just one.

With all the respects for rangers and their difficult job , if she cant shoot boars( for any reason including being brutal) then she needs to think twice about her job. It is like a veteran says I am not going to shoot my enemy if I see him , just because it is cruel.

[Wise Old Owl]

ugggh. Kookork - its called priorities, IF you were running towards her with a large knife screaming - she wouldn't reach for her umbrella.

[wythekari]

So the year is 1975, I'm a riverguide at an outfitters in Harpers Ferry and my girlfriend was a whitewater paddler. One night we drive down to the Shenandoah River at the HF parking lot for some skinny dipping; it was summer, the river was low and calm, the day visitors had all gone back to DC or B-more and we swam out to some rocks for some, well, to be alone. Now, back in the day the NPS Rangers at HF knew the owners of my outfit and kinda watched out for the riverguides (young fellas in our teens or early 20s and prone to get into a spot of trouble) in a nice uncle kind of way. So our swim is over and I have shorts and a T-shirt on, my GF only has a long T-shirt on and up comes uncle ranger in his cruiser. What are you kids doing down here? Oh, nothin'. Hmmm, OK, get in the car. So he drives us back to the outfitters and drops us off and tells us no more swimming at night. Yes sir. Then I have to get a buddy to drive us back down there to get my car. It all ended up good but we did quit our night time swimming down at the park. Have not had a bad experience with any of them since - mostly the ones I run into lately in the west have been young and into their work and seem to be looking out for people who might end up in trouble. Hmmm, just like that ranger back when.

[atraildreamer]

Not a Ranger but a couple of years ago a Ridgerunner in CT. told my wife and I we were stealing bear food by picking wild blueberries.

Well, the Ranger should have cited the bears for not "people-bagging" their blueberries! :rolleyes:

(What goes around comes around! :D)

[Fredt4]

I usually ask them if there's any lost hiker they don't know about. ;-)

[bamboo bob]

When "summiting" Fort Pickens on the Florida trail I met a Nice Ranger who told me all about the hurricane damage and history lesson about Ft Pickens and then drove me back to Pensacola Beach saving me a half day beach walk after finishing the FT. He said he wasn't supposed to give rides. I thought that was nice of him.

[Blissful]

I had a ranger check me over then give me a lift up in SNP when i had a bee sting and had a minor allergic reaction. I came out on the Skyline Drive from the AT and he was there. An EMT too.

[1azarus]

I ran into three rangers in the SNP a few weeks ago, and I'm not at all proud of my behavior... Here's what happened: I called the Park 2 times to confirm that I could leave a borrowed car at the south entrance gate. When my son's girlfriend offered to let me use her car for my trip, I assured her I would be leaving it in a safe location, so I didn't want to leave her car at any of the lots outside the park toward waynesboro -- there have been reports of vandalism, and a car with out of state plates is probably a bit more of a target. I knew it could be an issue to leave the car at the entrance gate where I knew there was limited room, so I was very specific when I called the Park for advice -- and was told I could leave my car at the Gate. Also, I had arranged for a shuttle from the south entrance gate. So... I entered the park at the swift run gate (that is what it is called, i think...) and signed in, told them I was going to leave the car at the south entrance gate. Then, after some hiking, I walked up to the south entrance gate and said hello. I am a fairly friendly guy -- the Ranger was ok, and wanted to see my pass, which I showed him. When I told him I already had my car in the park, and that I was going to get it and bring it to the south entrance gate he first wanted to see proof that I had paid for vehicle entry... and I told him I had the receipt in the car, and that I would show it to him when I brought the car down. He then told me I couldn't leave it at the Gate. Period. I asked about leaving my car in the employee lot, which had plenty of room, and he said no... It seems I should not have been told I could leave my car at the gate. What annoyed me was that I was told that I could, and the Ranger wouldn't help make the situation work. So far, that would be a small minus score for the rangers -- they gave me bad info and then weren't flexible enough to fix it. But, hey, that's ok -- flexibility isn't in their job description. What I am embarrassed about is that I really argued with them. I shouldn't have -- all the right attitude stuff about making it easier for hikers who come after you is a good thing. So, I left in a huff, and shuttled down to Buena Vista. I had a couple of days to talk to myself about that experience, and vowed to apologize to the Rangers when I returned. Then, I got carried away and ended up with a 29 mile day and finished just before dark instead of the next morning -- to find the entrance gate empty... so I didn't get to apologize.

[WIAPilot]

Lazarus: The Ranger in question may have had HIS information wrong. The least he could do would be to call the same info line and ask them if this was the information they were giving out. I don't think you were in the wrong at all. Rangers are paid quite well for a dream job in most cases. A lot of them abuse their authority. (Of course this coulld be said of most professions... :cool:)

[fiddlehead]

I've had a few ranger encounters.
Probably more good ones than bad ones.
The worst was once when hiking the CDT in Yellowstone and they made us travel the road for a few miles because of a Griz with cubs.
Ranger sees us (from his car) and slams on the brakes to ask us what we are doing. We told him the story and that we were thru-hiking the CDT.
He had never heard of it. But left us alone when he saw a car cross the divider line. He pulled him over, called for backup and 3 cars came to give this poor driver some cr#p. He was a wanna-be cop kind of screw up that gives those guys a bad name.

On the good side, a different year, same park, a ranger informed me of a secret hot creek in which we could get an excellent bath (legal as it was a flowing creek) It was perfect. Turned out he had thru-hiked the AT a few years before.

Another time, one was trying to give us a hard time in Sequoia NP about a cache we made for a speed hike but you could tell he really was OK and just doing his duty.
We ended up sharing some stories, and left on good terms. Then there was the woman ranger in the "Bob" who raises mules in her off-season. Anyone ever meet her? I met her on two different hikes up there.

Like I said: more good than bad. But the bad can be very bad.

[Lyte-w8-hyker]

In september of 08 I was doing aloop in the smokies with a buddy. We where hiking ont the little river or goshen prong trail (can't remember) near campsite 21. THere was on old bridge that seemed to be part of a railroad/old road. We went down to fill our water. I saw a salamander and was taking a picture of it. All of a sudden I heard a womens voice say "stay away from the animals your too close!" I looked up and saw a female ranger, she said again "your too close to the bear!" Sure enough I looked over my left shoulder and there was a bear no more than 20 yards down the creak heading near me! My buddy freaked and ran up back to the bridge, I was petrified an slowly backed away. So i'd say it was a good encounter she saved my butt!

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l476/Dougr320/P9170123.jpg

[Lyte-w8-hyker]

darnit, wrong link

http://i331.photobucket.com/albums/l476/Dougr320/CIMG2222.jpg

[RED-DOG]

I ran into a couple rangers in the S.N.P in mid april and one in the Smokies they were all real cool people. But you got to expect to run into them from time to time especially on the A.T since it does run through National parks and they do have the right to search you especially after the stonewall Murder.

[Monkeywrench]

Other than front-country rangers seen around the Waysides and such in SNP, I saw only two rangers during my entire 6-month thru-hike. I saw one hiking the trail in Vermont, and another at one of the Huts in the Whites. I chatted with each for a few minutes and both were friendly and pleasant.

[Saprogenic]

I don't think NJ has a single decent human being wearing a ranger's uniform. I've run into quite a few over the years, and none of them had a decent bone in their body.

[rocketsocks]

I don't think NJ has a single decent human being wearing a ranger's uniform. I've run into quite a few over the years, and none of them had a decent bone in their body.Gotta disagree with ya there on that one,but only on principal,cause you didn't support your statement with a reference.

[hikerboy57]

I don't think NJ has a single decent human being wearing a ranger's uniform. I've run into quite a few over the years, and none of them had a decent bone in their body.

can you elaborate? people dont choose the NPS for a career because theyre in it for the money.

[Feral Bill]

I've worked for NPS at several parks in maintainance, and have known a bunch of their people well. Lets note that there are many sorts of "rangers". NPS, local/state park, USFS, fish and game, probably others. Within each (or at least NPS) there are different jobs, such as naturalists, backcountry rangers, visitor center staff, and more. There's not much to be gained thinking of them as all the same. And the pay, as hikerboy suggests, is low, and jobs often seasonal. Some bad apples, sure, but mostly decent folks trying to do their job.

[FarmerChef]

I've only done about 600 miles of the trail itself but spend lots of time in Harper's Ferry since it's close to my home. Though I've never, ever seen a ranger in the backcountry I've seen plenty at gates, in the visitor's center, on trail talks and more. I have to say that not once have I had a bad experience.

The most recent was at Harper's Ferry. My family, my aunt and uncle and two of my cousins were all planning to hike the section from Snicker's Gap up to HF over 3 days (they are veeeerry slow, hyoh). So my wifey and I drove over to drop off a car on Friday night knowing how crazy the parking lots can be on a holiday weekend (Memorial Day in this case). We pulled into the day use lot at the 340 bridge and went up to the guard shack at the vistor's center just to double check we could leave it there.

Well the VC was closed and the guard shack was empty but when we got there we saw a ranger in a marked vehicle. So we hurriedly scooted over and hopped out to explain our situation. The ranger kindly informed us that we needed to move our car up to the VC parking lot and then went back to his vehicle to get the form and give it to us. As we drove down to pick up our car and move it, we filled out the form and drove back up. He was still there and graciously took our form and wished our trip well even though it was well after regular visitor hours.

On another occasion, I brought my Tiger Cub den up for a clean up walk on the AT and we stopped at the VC. As you know, Tigers (1st grade boys) can be a bit rambunctious, but the rangers were polite and sweet and helped make that trip exciting and memorable for the boys.

[fredmugs]

One encounter in SNP and my registration tag was clearly visible and the ranger thanked me for it. I can't recall any other encounters.

[coach lou]

I always try to shoot the breeze with the rangers. it is really interesting to hear where they are from, how they got this paticular assignment, what assignments they have had.

[fins1838]

This one to time at bandcamp I saw tim Tebow kiss the clarinet player!

[fins1838]

Cause they're all Sapranos!

[RockyRoo]

LOVED the two rangers I met in the Smokies. Mind you, I did have a broken wrist and they were sent to help. Great guys, really professional, medical knowledge was great etc. Can't sing their praises more! Gave my hubby and I a lift to the hospital to save ambo fee.

[Mishigami Manitou]

I haven't seen any rangers on the AT, just plenty of ridge runners. I did have a good experience with one out in the Cascades a couple of years ago - although I thought the first introduction started bad.

My son and I had to re-route on a different loop as one of the river crossings we hoped to go over was much too high. I would have been okay, but my son was only 15 at the time, and small, so rather than subject him to any danger, we picked a different route. We were about two days into the new route when we came across a ranger. He asked to check our backcountry pass, and after discovering we had changed our route, he told us with a rather arrogant attitude that we should have notified the ranger station of our changes (even though we were over a day in when we changed them). He made some calls on his radio and gave us a new set of campsites to use. He just seemed a bit of a jerk with it all. When we got to the first campsite he picked for us, we found it in a swamp and full of mosquitoes (another much nicer campsite was only a couple of miles up the trail). This made us not like him even more.

Well, three nights later, we were awakened by someone in our camp (a little frightening when you are so far out in the middle of nowhere by yourselves). We poked our heads out of the tent, and when our eyes adjusted to his flashlight, we saw that it was the same ranger. It was about three in the morning. He told us that a forest fire was coming, and we needed to break camp immediately. He led us out on another route (and even helped me limp the last few miles when I twisted my knee climbing over a fallen tree). Turns out, he was a pretty nice guy after all, and we still keep in touch to this day (he fixed a ticket for me a couple of years later when I got cited for parking at a trailhead without paying the fee).

Most of the rangers I've met over the years are all right. Some can be a little bloated - mostly those who want to move on to being real cops down the road.

[Wise Old Owl]

Still my best and favorite thread.. got to love it... keep it coming....and Sapro (above ) lets try to keep it positive....

[SunnyWalker]

I've run into them over the years. These people have a hard job, give a lot in serve they are not paid for. I have always had positive experiences with them. They always have lots of info, know whats happening in the area, are friendly, and give great service to the park. I don't think they are paid enough. I sure do appreciate them.

[Wise Old Owl]

Thx Sunnywalker!

[WalksInDark]

A few years back I took a friend's family for a 4 day backpack/catamaran trip to the Apostle Islands on Lake Superior. The game plan was for the 5 of us to pack all of our camping gear and food onto two small catamarans and go "island hoping" each day. Camping on the Apostle Islands requires that you make and nightly confirm reservations with the National Park Service for each night you will be on any of the islands.

On our third night out, we were camping on a small island about 15 miles off shore. Shortly after daybreak a ranger started calling my name from the outside of my tent. When I got some clothes on, I went out the flap of my tent and talked to the ranger. According to the ranger, "If you guys are the folks who are sailing the two small catamarans (one was 16' and the other was an 18' Hobiecat) that are pulled up on the beach, you might want to think hard about making a run for the mainland A.S.A.P. A major storm is coming and the weather prediction is for 30-40 mile and hour winds plus 6' to 8' seas for an unknown period of days. Oh yeah, the predicted wind direction is going to be off shore, so you will have to tack the whole way back to the mainland."

The ranger went on to give us much more valuable information and we proceeded to get packed up and start sailing toward the mainland by around 7 a.m.

Sailing in the Apostle Islands means that you have to run through fairly narrow channels between the islands...where the seas plus the prevailing winds move unpredictably and change instantaneously. To add an additional degree of difficulty, many of the islands are 20' to 60' above the water surface and have little to no accessible beach area.

Long story short, the trip back to the mainland was a 12 hour white water rafting adventure! About every third wave we would fly completely out of the water and skip across the lake surface. Every tenth wave or so we would submarine into an errant wave and a 3' wave of water would sweep across the entire boat. Due to excellent prior planning we were all wearing thick wetsuits, rubber booties, neoprene hoods, foul weather gear, and had large stashes of energy bars readily available. Between the wind velocity, the speed of the boats through the water, and the high seas a crew person had to be suspended from the mast (hiking out they call it) to counterbalance the boats for the entire trip back to the mainland. We finally reached shore just as the sun was starting to set.

While we were certainly the smallest sailboats out in the storm, the smallest boats who fought their way in was actually a group of ocean kayakers. Other than the kayaks and our small catamarans, the next smaller boats were more than 30' long....and most of them were motorboats or sailboats using their auxiliary motor, rather than sails of any sort.

By warning each of the campers on the islands, the rangers made what could have been a bad situation into something which was certainly manageable. Additionally, it seemed to me as if all of the watercraft that the rangers had available to them were being used to "keep on eye" on all of the boats as they made progress toward the mainland. While we never summoned any of the rangers on the park service boats...several boats actually came by to make sure that we were doing OKAY.

As far as I am concerned, almost all of the rangers I have EVER encountered were pretty much class acts.

[scudder]

A couple years ago, I went on a winter day hike on Humpback Mt. When I returned to my truck there was a note in an evidence bag under the wiper blade. It was from a ranger, explaining that they were closing the Blue Ridge Parkway due to a storm forecast to hit later that evening. It gave directions to the nearest unlocked gate , asked me to lock it as I left, and included some phone numbers that I could call to confirm that I had safely exited the area. We never actually met, but we did speak on the phone. Seemed like a standup guy doing his job.