View Full Version : Gear skin question.
OK, I have [mostly] decided to get a Gearskin backpack. Oddly enough, other than I cannot afford it right now, one of my "problems" in buying one at this time is the lack of bad reports on the Gearskin. Are they that good, or is everyone that smitten with them they do not see the flaws?? How are they loading gear in the rain, don't the gear get wet? Why/why not? I'm concerned about important stuff dropping out while I'm hiking, should I be? [I know, "load up properly & it ain't a problem" But I am somewhat careless.] As a sort of slob, should I forget the gearskin & go to the ULA P2 as my backup plan calls for? Or is the gearskin forgiving enough?
I have read Sgt Rock's & Brian's reviews & quite a few other excellent reviews of the Gearskin, which is why I want one. I admit that it is part of my make up that makes me ask these (stupid?) questions, but I really need some of them answered. And, probably no negative answers will change my mind. I just NEED to know.
Thanks!
Doctari.
SGT Rock
02-29-2004, 15:01
There are no stupid questions, but there are stupid people that ask questions ;)
I can't say that I see any flaws in the pack desigh. It is very well built and works well. There are things you would have to adjust to however that are not the same as you would have to do with a normal pack.
First off, it isn't a sack. you can't just throw your gear in there and move it around in a shelter or tent like you can with a backpack since there aren't really any sides. Your gear would fall out the sides if you were to do this. It also means that if you are packing and it starts raining, you can't just pitch in your gear and go.
As for your question about rain, packs are not waterproof anyway. You need a pack cover to keep them dry and bags to go inside them as well for those leaks that WILL happen. Some hikers don't use covers anymore and only use liners, but the wet material of a pack can add some extra weight to your back. With a Gearskin, you can get the thing made in Sil-nylon so it won't hold water in the first place, and use a pack liner instead of a cover which works great as a system. Personally I am paranoid about getting gear wet so it goes under a pack cover (soon to be a packa), inside a liner bag, and finally all clothing and sleeping gear is also insde sil-nylon bags.
The next thing sort of builds on the first point - it takes some practice to get good at packing it (not a lot) and it takes a little longer to pack than a normal backpack since you basically have to pack the Gearskin from scratch every morning. This isn't a bad point at all IMHO because it alllows me to PCI my gear every morning. It could also cause you to actually hands on review your gear at every packing: "Here I am packing this _____ again, when the heck was the last time I even used this stupid thing?"
But with some creative thinking, these points can also allow you to access almost every piece of equipment you may need during the day without digging in your pack like a normal pack would require.
tlbj6142
02-29-2004, 18:00
one of my "problems" in buying one at this time is the lack of bad reports on the Gearskin. Are they that good, or is everyone that smitten with them they do not see the flaws??Check out www.backpackgeartest.org (http://www.backpackgeartest.org/). There are a few Gearskin reviews (http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Packs/Frameless%20Backpacks%20and%20Day%20Packs/Moonbow%20Gearskin/), a couple are a bit negative. Also note how folks are loading their gearskin, seems as though most of the "problems" with the gearskin are resolved by packing it "correctly" (whatever method works for you).
Honestly, that is what I thought. I just needed someone to "hold my hand" :rolleyes:
So, in a nut shell:
Ill need to clean up my act & start packing carefully or risk loosing stuff.
My gear will not get any wetter in a gearskin than a "normal" pack.
It will fit me, custom, I like that.
Sounds good to me.
Thanks for the replies!!!
Doctari.
My one comment is this: Use stuff sacks for everything. It doesnt matter out of what, just use them. It makes things so much easier to pack (IMHO). Get the back pocket for all those little things, like stakes, rope, FA kit, etc. All the other stuff is explained in my review here on WB (which you have read).
Brian
Future Thru Hiker 2013 (with my gearskin)
One more thing...I dissagree with rock's comment on getting a silnylon gearskin...it just seems too fragile, even for me (I baby my gear, cuase I aint got no money to buy new stuff!). I chose the 4oz. fabric (8oz too much), and am very happy with it. Get a 2oz silnylon pack cover, and you wont have a problem. After 14 days of hiking (plus many day hikes), there is only one slight scratch on the bottom of my gearskin, maybe 1\3" long. I have also heard somewere that Moonbow just aquired some specra... might be interesting to investigate that more...
Brian MacMillin
Future THru Hiker 2013
tlbj6142
03-01-2004, 10:11
My brother has one made of 2oz ripstop though the bottom third of the pack is 200d. I would go with that option. Another reason to avoid silnylon is that since it is waterproof, back sweat has no place to disperse. Which can make for some bad back acne on a long trip. With the non-waterproof materials back sweat can at least work its way into the pack's material.
gravityman
03-01-2004, 11:42
Well, you want a bad report of a gearskin. I guess that I can do that.
First, the load lifters were attached too high on the shoulder straps. I reattached them futher down, and the load felt GREAT. I loved it. Feels good on the back, the shoulder straps are very comfortable, the hip belt is cushy, and now the the load lifters are in the right place, it really gets the weight off my shoulders. I used it climbing 10 14ers this summer (although I haven't taken it on a long backpacking trip yet.
First off, I got the silnylon one. Boy was that a mistake. It fits tight to the back, and I sweat sweat sweat. It then drips down and chaps my butt something fierce. OUCH! The next problem is durability. I slipped on some rocks and cut the pack. Now it's totally fixable, and didn't stop the pack from functioning.
So, in the end the reason that I can't use it without major modification is the back sweat issue. If you get it in the heavier material howere, then the weight starts getting comperiable to other commercially made packs. Right now the Gregory z-pack (really didn't like the g-pack, but the z-pack looks real nice. But I need to look at the weight more carefully. However, nice back padding with good ventilation, good hip belt, and shoulder straps. And real stays) and a few granite gear packs are looking interesting. I am also thinking about modifying my gear skin to meet my needs, but I'm not sure that it is worth it.
Anyway, that's my experience with it...
Gravity Man
They now can make it in Spectra Cloth but it is a little more expensive, but it would solve the durability problem over the more fragile sylnylon. The sweating factor, though, is new, but then I have never had a pack in sylnylon. Thats a bummer, gravityman. perhaps you could contact them and ask for a possible solution. They seemed very helpful the two times I spoke to them by phone.
Anyway, I sent the check for one in the only color they had the Spectra Cloth in, royal blue. I would have preferred a more sedate color but i was looking for durability and less weight plus I wanted one that could haul some heavier occasional loads and took the various positive reviews to heart. here's hoping for a better review later :)
A couple items (IMO):
1.) one needs to pack the Gearskin "tall" for the load lifters to work at all - this may mean using a foam pad as part of the support system since I don't think a stuff sack collection by itself will get the load to be tall enough
2.) it is important to get the load balanced from left to right - often I will stop after a short time hiking and "punch" a couple of stuff sacks over to the other side slightly - once balanced it works well
Another question for you Gearskin users. Where do you put a hydration bladder? Seems if you put it inside and compressed everything, you'd maybe put too much pressure on the bladder. If it didn't burst or leak, it would come out way too fast every time you tried to drink. I'm thinking of trying to make Gearskin type pack.
Another question for you Gearskin users. Where do you put a hydration bladder? Seems if you put it inside and compressed everything, you'd maybe put too much pressure on the bladder. If it didn't burst or leak, it would come out way too fast every time you tried to drink. I'm thinking of trying to make Gearskin type pack.
I see the compression on my bladder as a bonus! I love not having to suck on it to get water! Instead of taking it out and filling it (which would require a complete repack), I back fill it using a 2L platy and a "platy filter link": Take off the camebak bite tube and squeeze the platy. My camelbak bladder is normally right behind my spine, protected by my backpad.
Brian
Future Thru Hiker 2013
tlbj6142
03-09-2004, 09:38
Another question for you Gearskin users. Where do you put a hydration bladder? Seems if you put it inside and compressed everything, you'd maybe put too much pressure on the bladder. If it didn't burst or leak, it would come out way too fast every time you tried to drink.I had the same problem with my other packs that have internal bladder sleeves. I compressed the pack so much that my camelbak (the same type brian talks about above) leaked all over. When I did a dayhike with my brother's gearskin, I put the bladder across the top of the pack. Very little need for insanely high compression at that portion of the pack.
I'm thinking of trying to make Gearskin type pack.Check out the Yahoo! Group "MakeGear" photo archives. Somone made a gearskin with two stay sleeves. I, too, plan to make one. I have all of the material I need except for the hardware (buckles and webbing). I photo documented my brother's pack, as well as wrote down just about every dimension I thought would be needed to rebuild a pack. If I ever clean-up my notes (and/or actually make the pack), I'll post them here.
Had it for 4 years now a all the way through the AT and through the JMT as well. You can do push ups on it when it is filled with water. I use that with my Gearskin and had no leakage problems. I usually put it away from my spine, however.
I agree with HOI. The taller you pack it, the more comfortable it became.
I have the ripstop nylon version. Not the syl and not the cordura heavy stuff. Didn't notice a sweat problem. I sweat so much everywhere. I didn't notice it being uncomfortable against my back.
I've packed up in the rain w/o a lot of problem. Inside my tent I pack up my sleeping bag in one stuff sack, my food in another, misc gear in another, and clothes in another. Helps me stay organized. Once it's all packed, I throw it out of the tent, collpase tent with sleeping pad inside, fold it over the pad in thirds, slide it over the unclipped gearskin, clip all the side straps, stuff in my sacks one on top of the other, clip the top, and good to go.
In the amount of time it takes the average person to fold up their shelter and get it all situated in their pack, the Gearskin user should be ready as well.