PDA

View Full Version : Camping-hiking conversion.



maybeFritz
07-31-2008, 11:37
First the introduction, as it is the first post: I am slowly going from a regular camping enthusiast who hikes around where he camps to a hiking enthusiast who camps around where he hikes. And by slowly I mean just starting. Eventual goal is a thru (NOBO, probably) AT, 2011 is the when things start looking possible.

So my open ended question is; other than the obvious (backpack, and cutting weight on everything-by hubba hubba is comfy, but a bit big for the carrying) what are some of the less obvious gear issues I may run into?

I am not going ultralight, but am not a huge guy (think really long twig), same moderate thoughts on budget (I like toys, and by trying to buy over the next few years can probably go toward the high end). Granted that most of my time out here is in the desert (PCT start is nearly on my doorstep), I am trying to lean myself toward the AT (and midwest, where if all goes well I will eventually end up).

Sorry for the lack of avatar. It is what I get for signing up at work.

taildragger
07-31-2008, 11:42
Just start hiking and see what you need and what you don't. Keep a list of what you use, and what you want to be lighter/more comfortable etc..

BTW, why are you wanting to go east when the PCT is out your backdoor, I'd rather do the PCT than the AT, but thats just me.

Plodderman
07-31-2008, 11:56
Best way to figure it out is to hike. I make changes every time I hike but tend to simplify things. If it works I keep if it doesn't I move on. After a few long hikes I have most of my stuff and haven't spent an arm and a leg.

By the way welcome maybeFritz.

Mags
07-31-2008, 11:58
I wrote a little doc for people new to backpacking. Maybe it will help?
http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=33


If you are ready to go lighter, I suggest Lighten Up! a Falcon Guide. (http://www.amazon.com/Lighten-Up-Complete-Ultralight-Backpacking/dp/0762737344/ref=pd_bbs_2/102-3169278-3944160?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179957158&sr=8-2)

A good “meat and potatoes” guide for those who are traditional backpackers and want to lighten up their load. Not as detailed as other guides, but sometimes too many details gets in the way of the overall goal. Basically, start with this book if you want to go from 30 lbs base packweight to 15lbs.

Most people who backpack are really campers who walk in a little ways. Can be fun (I've done two trips like that is month myself), but camping so as to hike more is, as you suggested, a different ball of wax from hiking for the sake of going camping.

Different gear, different attitude, different style.

My link should help with the initial stages. The second book will make the transition easier.

Have fun!

jesse
07-31-2008, 12:04
Best way to lighten the load without breaking the budget is to make as much of your gear as possible.

Mags
07-31-2008, 12:14
Best way to lighten the load without breaking the budget is to make as much of your gear as possible.

Sometimes. You do have to invest in a sewing machine, then there is the time vs. money issue. (For me, time is more expensive as I go outside every weekend and often during the week).

Besides, quality gear on the cheap can be procured very easily. Over here on WB, we have had many discussions on it:


Quality Gear on the Cheap: If you read those glossy outdoor magazines, you'd think you need a $300 pack, a $300 shell and $300 fleece. You do not need expensive gear to enjoy backpacking. Often the brand name, besides being expensive is heavy, bulky and overkill for what is supposed to be for the simple joy of walking.

Though written for the Appalachian Trail, the general concepts apply for quality gear on the cheap:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678

Some additional information I will add is that you should invest in a decent sleeping bag. The Campmor down bag is $110, rated to 20F
and is known as a good budget bag.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=86896&memberId=12500226

If you are looking for a light, compressible and warm jacket check out an army liner jacket
(mentioned in the above article, but deserves to be emphasized) : http://tinyurl.com/2dfgpk

Finally, for high altitude/desert hiking I suggest a long sleeve polyester dress shirt for the princely sum of $4 from many thrift stores. I've used this type of shirt for literally several thousand miles of backpacking. A short sleeve poly dress shirt works well for hiking back East.

Summit
07-31-2008, 12:21
A good pack, tent, sleeping bag, and shoes are essential to getting right the first time. Otherwise, you'll waste money replacing very soon. Here is my high-level brief thoughts on each, which I'm sure you'll get different opinion on:

Pack / Internal frame - If you're an organizer, you'll want pockets, which adds weight. If not you can get light with basically one big compartment. Look for customer feedback, particularly on how it adjusts and wears.

Tent - around 4 lbs is a nice compromise. I recommend a two-man tent for the extra space in inclimate weather and to store your gear inside with you. The one-man solo 'cocoons' are not a lot of fun IMHO. Other alternatives: Tarp, hammock (search and read the pros/cons on them - you've got my recommendation)

Sleeping bag - Down or synthetic? Down is the most expensive and the lightest. It's drawback is you're dead if it gets wet. Synthetic is the opposite of a down one and is what I recommend. At minimum, you'll want a 20* bag. If you have the funds, get a 40* second one for summertime. The lower the temp rating, the heavier the bag typically. I have never owned/used a down one. Shop sales as several brand's 20* synthetic bags are relatively equal in quality and features.

Shoes - lots of controversy and differing opinions here. Personally to me, heavy high-top full-leather hiking boots' time has passed. If you get your total pack weight down to around 30 lbs or less, a well-made running or cross-training shoe, well fitted, should be your choice. Spend hours trying them on (all brands) if necessary, to get the right fit. Of course you should be wearing the socks you'll hike in. I suggest Thorlo wool outer socks (or similar brand) and thin liner socks underneath (search socks for all the ins, outs, arguments).

maybeFritz
07-31-2008, 12:46
In answer to why the AT:

Grew up in the midwest, and the desert scares me.

Really, a couple reasons-I knew about the AT long before I knew any other long trail existed (despite having hiked parts of the Ice Age). I am more comfortable around the trees, and not a fan of massive sunburn (which tends to happen when I go into the desert, regardless of sunscreen). Finally, cause I said so *shrug*

As to the rest-most makes sense. I managed to lurk around a bit already, and it is giving me someplace to start. First step is the Pack-the one I have is a rather old, ill-fitting external. Off to gearhunting I go (and I may make some, if I find nothing that meets my need, but otherwise I really tend to like starting with a manufactured something, and editing it as needed). Yes, I do realize starting with the pack may be a bit backwards, but I already have some variant of most other gear, which I will replace as need be. Probably replace whatever pack I get to, as size and weight comes down.

taildragger
07-31-2008, 12:47
Though written for the Appalachian Trail, the general concepts apply for quality gear on the cheap:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=206678#post206678

Some additional information I will add is that you should invest in a decent sleeping bag. The Campmor down bag is $110, rated to 20F
and is known as a good budget bag.
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=86896&memberId=12500226



The dirtbagging article is always a good read (I like that lemonade coffee cup idea!)

Another idea for a sleeping bag is to check out EMS right now, they are having sales. Not as cheap as the campmor bag, but I've never heard anything bad about them.

And if you're gonna go the ultralite gram weenie route. JRB quilts are on sale right now.

And my usual plug. www.steepandcheap.com will show the lower prices for name brand industries.

As far as packs, I prefer the cottage guys. After checking out the gossamer gear packs on the PCT and hearing so many good things about ULA, I gave ULA a shot, great pack, but its definitely more $ than my old kevlar external frame that cost me at most $40 brand new (its my inclement weather pack since I can haul the larger tent if need be)

buying used saves a ton, check out here and BPL forums, I've found a lot of good stuff that way.

taildragger
07-31-2008, 12:50
In answer to why the AT:

Grew up in the midwest, and the desert scares me.


Aww, desert in the early springs is real fun. I've had more fun in the Aldo wilderness, NM and the 4 peaks wilderness, AZ than I've had on most of my other hikes.

FWIW, it snowed on both those hikes and it wasn't supposed to get below 40* while we were out :rolleyes:

Even when I got sick near Agua Dulce and bailed on my PCT, that section of the desert was only getting to the 80's

I just have all the luck with weather :sun

Now, if I could just avoid salmonella before hiking...

Strategic
07-31-2008, 13:18
is a good thing to ask about; a lot of new hikers concentrate too much only on the "big three" (pack, shelter and sleep system) without thinking about what else needs to change from static camping. A couple of things that come to mind:

Clothes - when you spend most of the day hiking with a load on your back (however small you may be able to make it) you need different things in terms of performance out of your clothing. Breathability becomes an overriding concern, as does the delicate balance between insulating and venting parts of the body (with the added restriction of the pack on your back.) Test dayhikes with a loaded pack (whether it contains the gear you'll carry later or not) are the way to work out good clothing choices. Most AT hikers (and especially those who go light) tend toward a layered system with breathable base, insulating, and wind/water shell layers, but the compositions of these are pretty variable, as you can imagine, and really depend on personal taste and needs.

Cooking gear - This often trips up new hikers who camp, because it's a radical shift. Here is one of the areas where the secondary weight savings can really come for a hiker, but the result is a very different style of wilderness cooking than you may be used to. The debates over stove types and fuels, cooking methods and diet are long and ongoing, but really also tend to be dependent on personal taste. Regardless, though, they all represent a much more radical departure from our regular diets and cooking than, say, the NOLS school of wilderness cooking (which I reject for the simple reason that I don't care for lugging a cast iron skillet around in my pack.)

Housekeeping gear - again, not an obvious category but something that could call for some reassessment. Simple things that you will still need (light, lighter, personal hygiene stuff, etc.) can become critical when you're looking at trying to get you base packweight down and be more comfortable while you hike. There's also a lot you'll find you can do without and a few things you'll actually need to pay more attention to, like first aid. I carry a fairly complete kit, even though I go light in most respects, because while hiking you do have a small but not insignificant risk of injury (not to mention illness.) Again, that's a matter of personal taste, but your requirements in this regard from camping are still different, since you may well be miles from a trailhead when something happens and need to deal with it to get out. I've been there personally on this one, having cracked a shoulder blade in a fall up on Arden Mt. in NY and then hiked down the Agony Grind (yes, that's it's name, I'm not kidding) to get out without being able to use my left arm.

That's about it off the top of my head. Mostly the advice you've gotten already is spot on; go out and hike, it's the best test of all. Fortunately, you live where you can get to some fairly forgiving trail much of the year to test gear and ideas.

Good Hiking!

Blissful
07-31-2008, 13:20
I think of hiking as carrying camping gear in miniature. The stove is tiny. You only need one pot and a spoon. Your food for the most part is dehydrated (there are no coolers). Your light is not a lantern but a head lamp. Thin sleeping pad, no blow up air mattress (well, except for the Big Agnes air mat which is nice) Stuff like that. White Blaze is a good place to be to see about changing gear. Check out the many articles and threads.

Strategic
07-31-2008, 13:24
BTW, I'll second taildragger on the ULA guys, they're fantastic and they make great gear. I use one of their old Amigo gravity filters and my next pack (for the spring, I hope) will be a ULA Circuit (http://www.ula-equipment.com/circuit.htm).

Berserker
07-31-2008, 13:50
Sleeping bag - Down or synthetic? Down is the most expensive and the lightest. It's drawback is you're dead if it gets wet. Synthetic is the opposite of a down one and is what I recommend. At minimum, you'll want a 20* bag. If you have the funds, get a 40* second one for summertime. The lower the temp rating, the heavier the bag typically. I have never owned/used a down one. Shop sales as several brand's 20* synthetic bags are relatively equal in quality and features.


Summit, I have to respectfully disagree with your sleeping bag advice.

I have used synthetic and down, and I only use down when I backpack. Marketing hype always makes it out that if the down gets wet you’re in big trouble. Well, if one handles the bag carefully (which should be done regardless of whether it’s down or synthetic) it’s not going to get wet. Taking reasonable precautions with the bag should be part of any backpacker’s routine anyway. I mean it’s not a big deal to throw the bag into a trash bag or something inside one’s pack. Then when the bag is being used one should be under some type of adequate shelter where they are not getting wet. If you’re getting significant water into your shelter then you have bigger problems anyway.

To the OP, I recommend buying whatever bag type makes you comfortable. As Summit said, down is more expensive, but it is also lighter and compresses down smaller. It's a compromise like anything else. For what it's worth, I have never had one of my bags (down or synthetic) get any wetter than just slightly damp from condensation.

As I said, I use down (I have 3 Western Mountaineering bags). I have a 15 deg synthetic bag that is HUGE (Mountain Hardware 2nd dimension). The thing is so big that I had to make it a car camping bag cause it wouldn’t fit in any of my packs without taking up too much room. In comparison, my 10 deg Versalite looks like a bloated 2 liter soda bottle when it is in it's stuff sack.

Mags
07-31-2008, 14:18
As Summit said, down is more expensive, but it is also lighter and compresses down smaller. I


That also last longer than synthetics and therefore tend to be less expensive in the long run.

greentick
07-31-2008, 15:00
Go with down, you won't be disappointed. If you can get a WM or one of the other higher end bags fine, if not go with the Campmor bag that Mags linked above. Search the forums here, that bag consistantly has good/great things said about it.

I initially bought into the hype of synthetic (twice:eek:) but then I thought about 15yrs in the Army in infantry and SF and I only got my bag damp a couple of times and it NEVER got wet while stored in my ruck. This included a 20min swim across the Chattahoochee pushing my ruck. My cold weather bag is now a WM Ultralite (long, 1lb13oz) and I love it. Dedicate a nice waterproof bag (ex sea to summit or outdoor research with a roll top or learn to gooseneck a standard bag) to just your sleeping gear. For 40* and above I have a homemade quilt. It's ugly but functional. My old synthetics are now loaner bags.

I suspect a cold night spent in a soaked synthetic bag or a soaked down bag would be fairly miserable, whatever you are using.

FritztheCat
07-31-2008, 19:05
I'm coming at my hiking experience from the same place. I camp frequently throughout the year and have learned of the great differences. When camping, I usually have both my Jeep and the wife's station wagon to load up gear. When hiking, I've got a pack. Lots to consider there and I'm finding this forum to be a real gem in the vast amount of information available.

I've read several books about hiking the AT recently and some of them have said that people really can just decide to hike the AT without a whole lot of training. I'm not finding this to be the case with me. For instance, I've been planning a 2011 thru-hike so in preparation I've been hitting the local trails and doing 15-20 mile days (which is pretty easy here as everywhere is flat).

The first thing I found out was my full leather, waterproof, steel toed, 5lbs boots were a mistake! Hiking in them with a 20 lbs (poorly loaded) pack tore up my feet and killed my leg muscles. The same hike showed me how hiking in cotton underwear was a tremendously bad idea. Not only did I have blisters for feet with a few toes at the end, legs so sore that I could barely walk, I also had a horrible case of chaffing.

The next hike I did was with a new pair of boots (Merrell XTC) and silk boxers with the same 20lbs pack. Still had the chaffing problem and also developed a few new blisters. I found the blisters were due to my wearing cotton socks. My legs felt strong all the way through. What a tremendous difference a pair of shoes makes!

Third hike was with the same pack wearing wool socks and I went "commando." Still had the chaffing problem and then learned that I may be allergic to wool (but at least had no blisters!). The wife thinks I had a reaction to the "sizing" in the socks since I didn't wash them after I bought them and just put 'em on and hiked.

My next hike will be with a pack, freshly washed wool socks and wearing a pair of Under Armour compression shorts. We'll see how that turns out.

I guess this is a very long way of saying, get out there and hike and learn from trial and error before attempting a multi-day hike. If I had been on a multi-day hike, I either wouldn't have made it or would have been so miserable I may have hung up my hiking shoes for good. See what works for you and what doesn't. For me, I'm really glad I'm starting so early figuring out the basics before I pursue my dream of hiking the AT.

Summit
07-31-2008, 19:56
Summit, I have to respectfully disagree with your sleeping bag advice.That's fine . . . I figured somebody would! :p To somewhat counter your sound logic and advice, yes, one should take measures to ensure their sleeping bag doesn't get wet, but accidents do happen. Pegs pull out of the rain softened ground and the sound asleep tent occupant doesn't know it until a good bit of water is in the tent (for instance).

I'd just rather have a little bit heavier bag that gives me more peace of mind that should it get wet, I'll be OK. Synthetics have improved and reduced weight and loft of specified temp rated bags over the years, so that weight/size gap has decreased.

I don't know about the comment by Mags that synthetics don't last as long. Tell that to my 17-year old Slumberjack that's almost as good as the day I bought it, and I can't count the hundreds of nights I've spent in it.

But I'm sure down bag owners love them and they are comfy and cozy and nice and lite . . . just keep 'em dry, and I'll do my best to keep my synthetic dry too, but if we both should have the unfortunate fate of getting them soaked, I'd rather be in my synthetic than your down bag.

Summit
07-31-2008, 20:06
My next hike will be with a pack, freshly washed wool socks and wearing a pair of Under Armour compression shorts. We'll see how that turns out.I think that will solve your chaffing problem, at least it has for me. Get yourself some BodyGlide for any occasional rub:

http://www.rei.com/product/745878

It comes in two successively larger sizes which are more economical, but in keeping the gear lite, this one should last weeks. This stuff heals raw rubs overnight. It's amazing! But it's even better at prevention. ;)

taildragger
07-31-2008, 20:20
I don't know about the comment by Mags that synthetics don't last as long. Tell that to my 17-year old Slumberjack that's almost as good as the day I bought it, and I can't count the hundreds of nights I've spent in it.

But I'm sure down bag owners love them and they are comfy and cozy and nice and lite . . . just keep 'em dry, and I'll do my best to keep my synthetic dry too, but if we both should have the unfortunate fate of getting them soaked, I'd rather be in my synthetic than your down bag.

Syn bags are known for losing loft with each compression. Thats why their temp ratings are no longer accurate after 2 or so years. Whereas a down bag can more easily retain its loft over time and thus stay near or at its temp rating.:sun

Appalachian Tater
07-31-2008, 21:28
The ideal equipment for hiking is almost completely different from what most people who car-camp use. When I go to a sporting good store like Dick's or Modell's I see very little equipment that would suit me, maybe a rain jacket or a plastic spoon. Find a good outfitter that specializes in hiking.

Summit
07-31-2008, 21:39
Syn bags are known for losing loft with each compression. Thats why their temp ratings are no longer accurate after 2 or so years. Whereas a down bag can more easily retain its loft over time and thus stay near or at its temp rating.:sunHas a nice sound to it but it doesn't ring true with my 17-year old syn Slumberjack 20* bag that kept me warm on an 18* morning April a year ago. When not in use I have always hung it by the foot (coat hanger through the foot loops) in a closet. Maybe it has as much or more to do with how you store them than how you stuff them, as long as you don't stuff them for too long a period. :-?

taildragger
07-31-2008, 21:40
Has a nice sound to it but it doesn't ring true with my 17-year old syn Slumberjack 20* bag that kept me warm on an 18* morning April a year ago. When not in use I have always hung it by the foot (coat hanger through the foot loops) in a closet. Maybe it has as much or more to do with how you store them than how you stuff them, as long as you don't stuff them for too long a period. :-?

I think it has more to do with the fill and the useage that they see. My 20* bag will still keep me warm at 20*, but it used to keep me warm down to about 10* or lower, not so much anymore...

Summit
07-31-2008, 21:41
The ideal equipment for hiking is almost completely different from what most people who car-camp use. When I go to a sporting good store like Dick's or Modell's I see very little equipment that would suit me, maybe a rain jacket or a plastic spoon. Find a good outfitter that specializes in hiking.Agree, forget Dick's, Gander Mtn., Bass Pro shops, etc. In addition to AT's list, they might be OK for socks too, but that's about it. Don't get your big ticket items at those places.

maybeFritz
07-31-2008, 22:07
Agree, forget Dick's, Gander Mtn., Bass Pro shops, etc. In addition to AT's list, they might be OK for socks too, but that's about it. Don't get your big ticket items at those places.

That was pretty much a given...though I do still like REI. Any strong feelings out there concerning them? Never had to use their return policy, but it is pretty nice.

Also, random side question; any opinions on Patagonia? Just found out I get a fairly nice discount through work, but a discount on things that just don't work doesn't do me a bit of good.

Turtle2
07-31-2008, 22:15
As to REI's return policy-I had a pair of their hiking poles. One kept collapsing so I stopped in a store on my way to begin my thru and they repaired it. That lasted 2 days. I just tightened it up as I went along (couple times an hour at times). Well, I finished the trail with them. They looked great until NH and ME where they obtained a certain scratched patina and actually froze in place. I would have exchanged them along the way except for a lack of REIs near the trail. Took them back and even though the sales guy asked what I had done to them, they gave me credit for the purchase. No problems with returns. My guess it that this pair of poles did not make the "scratch and dent" sale.

rafe
07-31-2008, 22:23
That was pretty much a given...though I do still like REI. Any strong feelings out there concerning them? Never had to use their return policy, but it is pretty nice.

Very little of what REI carries qualifies as "ultralight." For sure, I still buy stuff there -- occasional items of clothing and minor bits of gear. I enjoy browsing their store, and I do appreciate their return policy. But the big three -- tent, sleeping bag, pack -- were bought online. Alas, REI still caters mainly to weekend warriors.

Frosty
07-31-2008, 22:46
Synthetics have improved and reduced weight and loft of specified temp rated bags over the years, so that weight/size gap has decreased.The weight gap hasn't changed hardly at all, but fabric has improved at lot, so that you can spray water on a good down bag and the water will not get through the fabric to wet the down.

Besides, everyone says that synthetics are warm when wet, but I don't know anyone who ever actually soaked a synthetic bag and gotten inside. Next time you wash your synthetic bag, take it out of the tub, wring it out by hand, then crawl inside and spend the night.

I have both synthetic and down bags. The synthetics (which I bought back when I believed, as you said earlier, that if you get down wet you were dead) I use sometimes. My 20* down is very roomy, and my -25 is the coldest rated bag I have. But backpacking I use a 15* or a 30* WM bag.

The exterior of the 30* bag got wet in a downpour inside my single wall tarptent, but the down stayed dry and I am obviously not dead.

Sometimes you have to get beyond the marketing folks spiels.

Mags
07-31-2008, 23:22
I don't know about the comment by Mags that synthetics don't last as long. Tell that to my 17-year old Slumberjack that's almost as good as the day I bought it, and I can't count the hundreds of nights I've spent in it.




I do not know of any synthetic bag that has survived *multiple* thru-hikes. (Not to say there aren't any, but I doubt there are all that many) You may have spent "hundreds of nights" in a synth bag..but how many of those days was it compressed?

I used the same down bag on the LTx2, the AT,PCT,CDT and the Colorado Trail and god knows how many other nights in other places.

In my experience, and most other experienced long distance hikers, I doubt a snynth bag would have held up for the hundreds of days of compressed time.

I usually don't like to pull the "I thru-hiked a lot" card, but in this case I will willingly tout my long distance hiking experience when I think some very wrong misinformation is given.

I've said all I really can though on this subject, though.

rafe
07-31-2008, 23:32
What Mags said. Down bags, with a bit of care, will last forever. I simply don't see any challenge (at least on the AT) of keeping the bag dry. Just use a kitchen garbage bag to line the stuff sack. Problem solved.

Mags
07-31-2008, 23:38
REI: The sub-kilo is a pretty good bag for the money. At ~2lbs, 750 fill, water resistant shell it has many features of a more expensive bag.
http://www.rei.com/product/731678

A former girlfriend was able to buy this bag on sale, and with a discount card, for less than $200.

REI also sells the very durable and light CCF (blue foam pad), if for a bit more money than the Wally Worlds or surplus stores.

Note: The EMS bag mentioned earlier is very similar in price, style and features.
http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_vertical.jsp;jsessionid=LSHVXwp4ngF qvXp0vHpGT2vq5qwxRS47NpTP1cL7pBS9vh0wytLW!15742189 94!-2091262659?STYLE_GROUP%3C%3East_id=140847439600355 7&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302860912&bmUID=1217562453552 (http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_vertical.jsp;jsessionid=LSHVXwp4ngF qvXp0vHpGT2vq5qwxRS47NpTP1cL7pBS9vh0wytLW%21157421 8994%21-2091262659?STYLE_GROUP%3C%3East_id=140847439600355 7&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=2534374302860912&bmUID=1217562453552)


Both of these bags are a good compromise between the budget bag (Campmor) and the more expensive bags (Feathered Friends, Western Mountaineering).


BIG BOX STORES If you read the dirt bagger article (you really should!), they are great for cheap basics, esp. after ski/hunting seasons: wool/fleece hats, gloves/mittens, long underwear and such. They always have Lexan spoons, iodine, compasses, etc. as well.

They also stock the ubiquitous "blue foam pad" that is a favorite of minimalist backpackers.

Patagonia: aka Patagucci. :) A bit (very!) expensive..but no denying it is well made. If you can get a discount on the clothing AND if it is not too heavy and bulky, go for it. I have a Patagucci fleece that is too heavy and bulky for backpacking (300 wt), but man is it warm! I bought in a thrift store a decade ago and it still looks good.


Bottom line: You can go light (and cheap) by buying from a variety of sources. Some will be big name companies (REI), others will be places you think "only" car campers go (Sports Authority, Walmart or Surplus stores) or places that you may not even think of (like a thrift store dress shirt).

My own gear is from a little of every place as well. I have Montbell Windshirt over my thift-store shirt while wearing Target Runing shorts. On my head is a bandanna from a hardware store and a hat from an Army-Navy store. My feet have socks from a running store (local) and shoes from an online running store.


It is best to buy from a variety of places and not knock something as being too yuppy (REI) or redneck (Sports Authority/Walmart).

Summit
08-01-2008, 06:56
REI's return policy is their strong point. I've returned numerous items: hiking shoes where the toe came unlamenated, trekking poles (one broke in half), just to name a couple. I've never been hassled about a return.

REI gets a good deal of my business but they also lose a good deal of it. I check out nearly everything I buy there, but when it comes time to ante up, I go where I can get it cheapest. Sometimes that's REI (sales) and some times it's online outfitters.

The hundreds of nights in my synthetic Slumberjack followed hundreds of days of it being compressed in my pack. I have also slept in a pretty soaked synthetic bag a time or two and while the wetness wasn't exactly pleasant, I did stay warm. I don't doubt that down bags are very durable. I do doubt the claim that a properly cared for synthetic bag is not. Frosty says 'weight gap hasn't changed hardly at all' but my new NF Cat's Meow (2008 model) is a pound lighter than that old Slumberjack (25% difference) and has noticeably less bulk when I stuff it into the same bottom compartment of my pack. I also have about a 30-year old North Face Big Foot 0* bag that is still in decent shape. It is 2 lbs heavier than the Slumberjack and has much greater bulk, although it's lost some. This clearly supports my claim. So while words are cheap, experience trumps! :eek: That's all I'll say on the subject also.

Mags
08-01-2008, 09:39
So while words are cheap, experience trumps!


Yep. Consider the experience levels of the posters who make any posts on WB and judge accordingly. :sun

maybeFritz
08-01-2008, 11:18
Yep. Consider the experience levels of the posters who make any posts on WB and judge accordingly. :sun

So when does the hike-o-meter get put into the signature lines? ;)

Really, the wide array of opinions is helpfull. But hints and suggestions are always nice to prevent the overlooked bits from getting away. And when there is a rare agreement-well, if it works for everyone else, there is a decent chance it will work for me.

RememberYourZen
08-01-2008, 11:26
but am not a huge guy (think really long twig),

That's what she said

taildragger
08-01-2008, 11:40
That's what she said

We have a winner for first funny non-serious post :banana

Mags
08-01-2008, 11:42
So when does the hike-o-meter get put into the signature lines? ;)




Just pay attention to the posts. You get a good feel for people who have walked the walk (if you will)...
:)



As for the hike-o-meter...some users like to list all their trails. Me? I just walk...

Lyle
08-01-2008, 12:18
I came to this thread late, admit I haven't read all the posts. I'm assuming some pretty solid info has been given based on who has posted.

I will just add, if no one else has mentioned it, If you start buying gear now, you can be sure other "better" alternatives will be out by the time you start your through. This is a bane to all hikers. Should you wait to start accumulating gear? Nope, get some gear and start hiking. Getting some experience will serve you better than having the absolute best gear when the time comes for your through hike.

Good luck!!!

Mags
08-01-2008, 12:36
...get some gear and start hiking. Getting some experience will serve you better than having the absolute best gear when the time comes for your through hike.




Excellent advice. If I waited to get the best gear, I'd not have hiked at all. :)

Strategic
08-02-2008, 21:36
That was pretty much a given...though I do still like REI. Any strong feelings out there concerning them? Never had to use their return policy, but it is pretty nice.

Also, random side question; any opinions on Patagonia? Just found out I get a fairly nice discount through work, but a discount on things that just don't work doesn't do me a bit of good.

I'm an REI member, so I think that says it there. Remember that they are a true coop, so you're not feeding some corporate monster just by doing business with them. That said, they aren't great for really lightweight gear (though they do have plenty of stuff you'll need at reasonable prices, plus you get some back at the end of the year through the dividend.) But they don't carry a lot of the small-maker stuff that really is some of the best gear going (like ULA, Traptent, etc.) So REI is probably not where you need to go for your big three.

Patagonia gear can often be very nice, though expensive. If you have a good discount, then you're in luck. Their lightweight clothing is wonderful (especially base layers and jackets) and they have a fantastic reputation. They're also a fairly green company, which doesn't hurt.

JRiker
08-03-2008, 12:37
didn't read all of the ideas listed by others, but here's what i did to cut down from 30# base weight to 15#.

made alcohol stove (fancy feast by oops56 for it's simplicity)
replaced 4 pound tent with 1.5 pound tarp. (homemade and camo- Perfect!)
replaced pack cover and rain jacket with poncho (again homemade, plus it doubles as a ground cloth which you need for a tarp)
replaced sleeping bag with homemade quilt (just as warm, half the weight, use straps to keep out those pesky drafts)
bough a trail pro prolite 4 short.
replaced heavy cook set with walmart grease pot and learned the joys of freezer bag cooking...


all told cost maybe 100 to cut my weight in half, but i sold the tent for 80 so really only 20 bucks.

biggest thing is to MYOG, I don't consider the time spent on that as a job, but more like recreation, because overall it goes to making my camping/hiking better.

Plodderman
08-03-2008, 16:40
Just read an article about another hiker using a quilt instead of a sleeping bag. I am going to a hammock and I am making it out out a kit. Should lower the weight some as well as the more you hike the more efficient you are with water and food.

cornflake
08-04-2008, 02:59
I think that will solve your chaffing problem, at least it has for me. Get yourself some BodyGlide for any occasional rub:

http://www.rei.com/product/745878

It comes in two successively larger sizes which are more economical, but in keeping the gear lite, this one should last weeks. This stuff heals raw rubs overnight. It's amazing! But it's even better at prevention. ;)

I can also swear by Bodyglide. My thunder thighs kept me from doing long hikes until I found this product. One application "down there" in the morning and I'm good for the day. Also, apply at the first sign of nipple chaffe, or a hot spot caused by new boots. As a matter of fact, I haven't had had a blister from breaking in new boots since I started using this stuff. Don't mean to sound like a commercial here, but, if I had to hike 30 miles in hot weather and had my choice between taking food or Powerglide, I'd go hungry. Seriously!