View Full Version : Underestimating a thruhike of GSMNP?
thelaststop
07-31-2008, 13:27
Hi everyone,
Glad to have finally found what seems to be the definitive forum on hiking in the Appalachians. I am currently a college student, and so have pretty limited free time outside of the summers. This summer has been jam-packed and I'm actually getting the opportunity to climb Kilimanjaro in about 2 weeks...should be exciting. For this coming fall break I and a friend or two were thinking about doing a thruhike of GSMNP from Fontana Dam to Davenport Gap. The problem is that we would only have 4 full days of hiking. We could get to Fontana Dam on late Friday afternoon, and possibly hike to the first shelter. We would then have Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday to get to Davenport Gap and rendezvous with our second car. I realize from the start that this would be a very strenuous hike and am not expecting it to be a cake-walk in the slightest. We are all young guys (early 20s) with prior backpacking/climbing/rucking experience and in good shape. Is the pace that would be necessary to make this happen even feasible (seems like roughly 18 miles a day from what I've worked out)? Would it even be remotely enjoyable, or is this simply too fast?
I realize this varies greatly on our own abilities, but I was wondering if anyone has heard of this route being done in this short of an amount of time.
Sorry for the lengthy first post.
I'll reward with tales of Kili, hopefully.
Thanks a lot
Lone Wolf
07-31-2008, 13:34
totally feasible. the smoky's aren't that tough especially the northern half. barring no bad weather you should cover the distance no problem
max patch
07-31-2008, 13:37
Theres better trails in the GSMNP than the A.T. If I was going to spend 4 days hiking there I'd get a book -- although I'm sure you'll get suggestions here -- and research the alternatives. I think you'll have a better hike if you do so.
Hiking it in fall is probably preferable to early spring -- ie., when the NOBO pack is coming through. While LW is absolutely correct about 4 days being feasible... coming at it from an old fart's POV, I'd call it a wee bit ambitious. (I managed to pull my first-ever 20-mile day in GSMNP, but I wouldn't call it a fun day.)
Lone Wolf
07-31-2008, 13:48
these guys are in their early 20s and in shape. the smoky's aren't that tough
buff_jeff
07-31-2008, 14:01
I started doing 20's in the Smokies this summer. You guys can definitely do it. The climbs aren't bad at all in the park. The rocky sections got to me more than anything, but they aren't that bad.
Rain Man
07-31-2008, 14:05
What you described is 4-and-a-half days, not 4. To me, that could make a big difference.
The problem with averaging 18 miles a day isn't only the distance, but you have to stop at shelters for daily end points. So, it's not merely as simple as taking the total distance and dividing by number of days. Anyway, don't forget to take into account that you can't just camp anywhere.
As Terrapin said, I also had my first 20-mile day in the GSMNP. That was coming out of the Park, NOBO, so a long downhill is included in that day.
As young as you guys are, and if in good shape, you can do the GSMNP in 4-and-a-half days, yes. Took me 6.
Don't forget you have to get a permit.
Rain:sunMan
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max patch
07-31-2008, 14:09
I general, think that if someone has to "ask" if they can do a certain number of miles a day, then they probably oughta plan on doing less miles than that.
As Terrapin said, I also had my first 20-mile day in the GSMNP. That was coming out of the Park, NOBO, so a long downhill is included in that day.
Sounds like we did the same hike. :) In my case it was at the goading of Lagunatic, blessed trail angel for the Class of 1990. I could barely pull 12 miles over Songbird Mtn. the next day.
CrumbSnatcher
07-31-2008, 14:38
i'd bet the trail nobo out of new found gap is where most thrus do their first twenty miler.
CrumbSnatcher
07-31-2008, 14:48
a thruhike of the GSMNP would be all the trails combined (over 800 miles)linked together back to back to back,etc. :Dyou meant a thru hike of the A.T. section thru the GSMNP. don't mind me, just a smartass. when i heard about the 800 miler smokies club or whatever the heck its called, i thought a thru of all the trails in the park would be cool. the logistics would be a handful!
alot of overlapping trails probably, and way to many times into gatlenburg for supplies:eek:
rootball
07-31-2008, 14:56
Of course the majestic honor of saying I was on the AT does apply, but the hike is awsome, requires one car, and is perfect for the time at hand. Plus the water is 90% dependable until you get to the AT.
Start in Cades Cove (closed Sat. morning for bicycles) on the Gregory Ridge Trail - this is also where you will end up.
Gregory Ridge
Long Hungry Ridge
Twenty Mile
Lost Cove
Lakeshore
HazelCreek
Jenkins Trail Ridge (this is awsome) Water at the top, shelter at top
AT
Gregory Bald
Gregory Ridge
If you do it make sure you hike up to Gregory bald, I don't camp there, but its okayish
You'll pass by Eagle Creek - get a picture on the bridge
Hazel Creek is rich in history, if time permits do a day hike up to High Rocks - don't forget your doobie, there is cool cabin at the end of the Bone Valley Trail
Twenty Mile is really cool
Lakeshore trail - this is one of the best sections, some folks rave about the Lakeshore trial, but I don't - its aww-ight
I love this loop - not many people, beautiful trails, not easy trails, beautiful vistas. Only one shelter (thats a big plus for me -I hate them)
I usually stay at Mollies about a mile past Mollies there is water from a spring - the sign is gone, but the trail is obvious -just a thought
rootball
07-31-2008, 15:00
you will be able to find firewood, unlike the AT at the end of season. and you will only need one reservation. i could go on and on. I know i'm just babbling, but i thought i would toss it out there. Have fun.
Christus Cowboy
07-31-2008, 15:52
What you described is 4-and-a-half days, not 4. To me, that could make a big difference.
The problem with averaging 18 miles a day isn't only the distance, but you have to stop at shelters for daily end points. So, it's not merely as simple as taking the total distance and dividing by number of days. Anyway, don't forget to take into account that you can't just camp anywhere.
.
If the shelters don't line up with your trail plan you could do a thru using the Benton McKay trail rather than the AT.... Only one shelter on this trail though but most of the tentsites don't require a reservation and there are more of them along the trail which may make your trail plan more workable.....:rolleyes:
Pedaling Fool
07-31-2008, 16:01
Just in case, FWIW, if you didn't know, you need a permit to go thru GSMNP.
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm
They require you to make reservations, bunch of BS, but you don't want to get caught without one, I'm sure it'd be a pretty good fine.
I didn't see the thru-hiker clause for permits on the above link, but it should be somewhere on that website, but then again it's a Government site so who knows.
Basically it [thur-hiker clause] allows you to register on station (in your case Fontana Marina) as a thru-hiker; their definition of a thru-hiker is someone which hikes thru the park, but begins and ends 50 miles before/after the northern/southern boundaries. I would register as a thru, because if you make a reservation you must stop at the shelter you listed on your itinerary, but you don't have to stop at a particular shelter as a thru-hiker. But having a car drop you off could make that a problem. However, as a thru-hiker if you get to the shelter and it's full you must tent in vicinity of the shelter, even if you get there first, but a guy with a reservation shows up, he has a reservation so you got to get out.
Plodderman
07-31-2008, 16:10
Hard to line up the Shelters on the hike in the Smokies but you should be able to do it. The hardest day for us was the first at Fontana. Mostly up hill and I believe our group did around 17.5 that first day. We hiked in from Fontana and out on Saturday morning but could of made it easily by Friday but our ride was not coming until Saturday morning.
Everyone I hiked with and asked about the Smokies did not recommend leaving a car around Davenport.
fiddlehead
07-31-2008, 16:16
If you climb Kilimanjaro in 2 weeks and then come back and hike the Smokies, you'll be fine doing it in 4 1/2 days. Are your friends also climbing with you in Africa?
Cookerhiker
07-31-2008, 16:52
I did it in 5 1/2 days southbound also in Fall (late October); on one of those days, I waited out the rain and didn't start until 11 AM. So you can do it in 4 1/2.
Rain Man
07-31-2008, 17:14
...I would register as a thru, because ....
Surely you would not publicly propose that you'd just out-and-out lie, and throw in a rationalization of why it's okay for you to be above the law. Tell me I read that wrongly.
Hopefully, that's NOT what you are proposing.
Rain:sunMan
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fiddlehead
07-31-2008, 17:20
Surely you would not publicly propose that you'd just out-and-out lie, and throw in a rationalization of why it's okay for you to be above the law. Tell me I read that wrongly.
Hopefully, that's NOT what you are proposing.
Rain:sunMan
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If you do the Smokies in 2 days ( say: Newfound to Davenport one day, Newfound to Fontana the next) you wouldn't need a permit as long as you drove out of the park to sleep.
The northern half of the AT in the park is a lot nice to, IMO.
Kirby
I general, think that if someone has to "ask" if they can do a certain number of miles a day, then they probably oughta plan on doing less miles than that.
Agreed, but it is doable in 4 days by a fit hiker in cool weather.
Pedaling Fool
07-31-2008, 18:50
Surely you would not publicly propose that you'd just out-and-out lie, and throw in a rationalization of why it's okay for you to be above the law. Tell me I read that wrongly.
Hopefully, that's NOT what you are proposing.
Rain:sunMan
.
I was just making sure he knows about the permit.
But yes, I would register as a thru, but I'd make sure I'd walk in, not drive in and drop off my gear from a car.
I bet you never go above the speed limit in your car:rolleyes:
Cookerhiker
07-31-2008, 19:05
What's so hard about getting permits and reservations in GSMNP? I've done it for shorter camping trips - no big deal. It just takes some planning and commitments, something fairly easy for the thread starter since he's locked into his dates.
On my 2004 SOBO section hike (http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=83589), I wanted to start at Hot Springs but because of the 50 mile rule, I started further north at Allen Gap. I didn't mind following the rules.
The only thing remotely difficult about getting a short-hike permit at the Park is getting through to the reservations desk. Sometimes it takes a few attempts to get past the busy signal.
I think use is way down at the Park this year. A friend hiked the AT section a couple of weeks ago, in the middle of the summer vacation period, and got all her requested shelters. She called on Tuesday for a Sunday start.
Last weekend Cosby Campground was at least half empty on Saturday night.
Blissful
07-31-2008, 19:45
You should be able to it. First half is pretty tough as you will be loaded with food and there are some good climbs. I thought Newfound Gap to Davenport to be pretty easy as it's mostly a ridgewalk, so I would make miles there. Just be sure to get your shelter registration in. Have fun!
Remember you are only as strong as the weakest hiker in your party and plan accordingly.
Appalachian Tater
07-31-2008, 21:23
I general, think that if someone has to "ask" if they can do a certain number of miles a day, then they probably oughta plan on doing less miles than that.
The question is really about the difficulty of the terrain and trail and other factors such as having to stop at shelters, not their about own physical ability.
tight-wad
07-31-2008, 22:05
18 miles per day in the summer when the days are long are doable. 4 18 mile days in a row... fun? Probably not.
18 miles per day in the fall when the days are getting shorter probably means some night hiking, assuming you take decent lunch breaks and stop to take some pix and enjoy the scenery. If not taking decent lunch breaks, etc., then it is more of a chore than a fun event.
Bearbait
07-31-2008, 22:56
FYI, It's about 93 miles from Davenport to Fontana by car. So on your first day, add two and a half hours of travel time. We met our shuttle at 9:30 at Fontana and with a stop for gas and lunch we finally hit the trail at 13:00. It was 18:30 when we reached cosby shelter.
X-LinkedHiker
08-01-2008, 01:51
Some miles are going to be a lot harder than others. Cover as much ground as you can everyday while remaining healthy. The southern miles outside of the smokies tend to be easier until you hit about half way up PA. Only way you can know for sure is to do it and try it. If health or safety becomes an issue, stop and go home. it's as simple as that.
Surely you would not publicly propose that you'd just out-and-out lie, and throw in a rationalization of why it's okay for you to be above the law. Tell me I read that wrongly.
Hopefully, that's NOT what you are proposing.
Rain:sunMan
.
What I don't understand is why, when you have to start, or end, in Hot Springs or Wesser, to get an open permit when neither are on park property. Seems as though starting and ending at Davenport Gap or Fontana should suffice.
Lone Wolf
08-01-2008, 06:21
What I don't understand is why, when you have to start, or end, in Hot Springs or Wesser, to get an open permit when neither are on park property. Seems as though starting and ending at Davenport Gap or Fontana should suffice.
no kidding. the whole permit thingy is a cluster
no kidding. the whole permit thingy is a cluster
It's worse on the PCT, at least if you're doing it in sections. I understand you can get a "thru-hiker's" pass...
totally feasible. the smoky's aren't that tough especially the northern half. barring no bad weather you should cover the distance no problem
Dittos, SGT Rock and others had a forum discussion about this a couple of years ago, and it motivated me to lighten up and see how long it would take this middle age semi in shape guy to walk that about 72 mile section, well it took under 3 1/2 days and I can honastly say I did'nt push that hard and even stayed in a couple of shelters that were some disants down side trails.
It's worse on the PCT, at least if you're doing it in sections. I understand you can get a "thru-hiker's" pass...
I signed up as a "thru-hiker" ,which gives you a little more flexibility as to where you stay as I did get ahead if my planed itinerary... but never had any trouble finding room in shelters
The first day up from Fontana will be the toughest... I have done that piece enough for one lifetime thank you, I would likely reverse the route just so I could cruise downhill to Fontana and finish up at the visitor's center with the hot showers :)
fiddlehead
08-02-2008, 00:33
The first day up from Fontana will be the toughest... I have done that piece enough for one lifetime thank you, I would likely reverse the route just so I could cruise downhill to Fontana and finish up at the visitor's center with the hot showers :)
Definitely! SOBO is the way to do the Smokies.
Rifleman
08-02-2008, 01:22
[quote=thelaststop;675321]Hi everyone,
Glad to have finally found what seems to be the definitive forum on hiking in the Appalachians.]
Used to be until it took a dive. Keep seeking and ye shall find.
R.
Rain Man
08-04-2008, 17:30
Remember you are only as strong as the weakest hiker in your party and plan accordingly.
Well said!
Rain:sunMan
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Rain Man
08-04-2008, 17:37
I was just making sure he knows about the permit.
But yes, I would register as a thru, but I'd make sure I'd walk in, not drive in and drop off my gear from a car.
You rationalizers are amazing! Now that you've established the quality of your character, let's examine the WB Usage Agreement, article 4--
"Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts ... are forbidden."
Perhaps the National Park Service won't catch on to the fact that SGT Rock and ATTroll run a site where users openly and publicly promote committing illegal acts in National parks. The Moderators should delete your post. Nuff said.
Rain:sunMan
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Lone Wolf
08-04-2008, 17:45
:rolleyes:..............
Blissful
08-04-2008, 18:15
I just had to say this...
ALERT, ALERT
Danger danger, warning warning
Lone Wolf is now at 18,000 posts.
:)
You rationalizers are amazing! Now that you've established the quality of your character, let's examine the WB Usage Agreement, article 4--
"Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts ... are forbidden."
Perhaps the National Park Service won't catch on to the fact that SGT Rock and ATTroll run a site where users openly and publicly promote committing illegal acts in National parks. The Moderators should delete your post. Nuff said.
Rain:sunMan
.
I think it's worth noting that there IS a permit program and if you plan ahead, you don't need to violate any regulations. No, I don't advocate breaking these regulations. I think having the discussion here is more valuable than censoring a topic when there is a learning point involved.
One point folks may NOT be aware of is that the "Thru-hiker" pass is only available from March through May. After that, there are no 3 "Thru-hiker" spaces available. I found out in 2005 when I sectioned from Franklin to Erwin. It was July and the ranger at the section said I was OK, that he understood my situation because it is poorly explained, but that technically, I needed a regular permit at that time of year. SOBO's are small enough in number that they essentially overlook them...
I saw folks at a shelter this past year run into a ridge runner. They didn't have a reservation, but were able to get one by phoning the permit office. They were lucky. If they had not gotten through or the shelter was full of reservations, they would have had to move on to Cades Cove and camp or face a hefty fine.
Do your home work. Get your permit. Stick to it. Or else, hike the AT where there are fewer restrictions.
notorius tic
08-04-2008, 18:42
If the shelters don't line up with your trail plan you could do a thru using the Benton McKay trail rather than the AT.... Only one shelter on this trail though but most of the tentsites don't require a reservation and there are more of them along the trail which may make your trail plan more workable.....:rolleyes:
I AGREE:sun
I hiked the Smokies in February in 4 days and that included a pretty good snow/sleet storm so it's definitely doable.
FWIW, I thought the Smokies were tough in lots of spots - at least a lot tougher than the trail from Springer to Fontana.