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Wise Old Owl
08-03-2008, 23:35
I have bumped into thru hikers without maps, GPS, and missing other important stuff such as a bivy or tent. But I suspect some of you also leave the ten essentials behind to lighten the load – what is up with that? A typical kit weighs 1 pound; the new ultra light kits leave something to be desired. Now I do have a pet peeve. That Mylar foil space suit shelter ($3) they have been selling for years is crap, I used one once and it damn near killed me. But the rest of the best kits make sense, in fact I take most of them and add a few things like fly fish hooks and line. Light weight 15 feet of green wire is another thing I add.

I put this in general as it has been a while since folks addressed this topic. I am looking for wide audience review, both pro & con If you haven’t used a kit in years say so. If the First Aid kit was a second useless item tell me why.
On the other hand if the kit was in your bag and you do not have a clue on how to use it, ……… you might be a re……:)!

So give this thought your best! Oh if you have used it in a pinch do tell!

Sly
08-03-2008, 23:41
Essentials may be considered good to have in the unlikely event something serious happens but, they're not essential. If I listed what I thought was essential I'd probably break the user agreement.

Wise Old Owl
08-04-2008, 00:00
oh great now this idea will die, they moved the thread.

Ramble~On
08-04-2008, 00:02
The situation dictates...and by that what I carry weighs on where I"ll be carrying it and during what season.
I don't and won't carry what are considered to be the 10 essentials on the AT as IMO they aren't needed...dead weight.
I don't consider myself to be an UL hiker but i tend to avoid carrying things I don't need.
In other places and times of year what I carry is more like the 30 esssentials.

Plus the "10 Essentials" is usually a list in an REI/Campmor etc somewhere in hopes that the unknowing will shell out the $$$ to have all items on the list.

Having the 10 Essentials is more than a good idea and it's true that it's better to have and not need than need and not have.

So - I guess the situation dictates.
I usually carry a few of the essentials regardless of where I'm going

A-Train
08-04-2008, 00:14
The situation dictates...and by that what I carry weighs on where I"ll be carrying it and during what season.
I don't and won't carry what are considered to be the 10 essentials on the AT as IMO they aren't needed...dead weight.
I don't consider myself to be an UL hiker but i tend to avoid carrying things I don't need.
In other places and times of year what I carry is more like the 30 esssentials.

Plus the "10 Essentials" is usually a list in an REI/Campmor etc somewhere in hopes that the unknowing will shell out the $$$ to have all items on the list.

Having the 10 Essentials is more than a good idea and it's true that it's better to have and not need than need and not have.

Correctamundo. The AT and other wild areas (mostly out West) are completely different. I don't consinder much of anything to be necessary on the AT, besides a map. I never carried much in the way of first aid, figuring I could usually get to a town for a minor injury, or use someone's cell phone for help should something really bad happen. I don't know what you'd use a GPS for on the AT.

Out west on lesser marked trails, well, then probably a map, compass, some first-aid, etc.

Sly
08-04-2008, 00:25
I suppose things like a pack, shelter, foul weather gear, food and water are essential. Other than that, I'm at a loss. Sorry.

Ramble~On
08-04-2008, 00:41
I suppose things like a pack, shelter, foul weather gear, food and water are essential. Other than that, I'm at a loss. Sorry.

:-? Barefoot and wearing nothing but a pair of shorts has done me fine for some pretty long strolls....:rolleyes: course I've enjoyed nature in my own natural state more than once too.

I guess the only thing I consider to be an ESSENTIAL is a P.M.A. ( Positive Mental Attiitude )

fiddlehead
08-04-2008, 02:18
This has been discussed a lot on whiteblaze.
I remember last time, people were putting things like bug repellent and sunglasses in their 10 essentials. Hogwash.

GO out and spend a night in the snow with nothing. Spend the night writing up what you wish you had with you. Only then will you know what you should have.

I've been there. Let me tell you: a lighter is no. 1,
a sleeping bag is 2. (something you won't find on most 10 essentials lists but still the second most important item)
tarp or some kind of shelter (whether emergency or a proper sil nylong tarp) is no. 3
AFter that it's water, food, maybe a cell phone, or gps.

Sunglasses, sunscreen, bug repellent, whistle, even a knife, are things that are way down on the list. Jeez, i've never even carried sunscreen or a whistle, yet you'll see it on many lists.

Go out and spend that night. see how much you crave a water filter or pocket knife!

TD55
08-04-2008, 02:59
Are we talking about essentials for basic survival during a hike, or, essentials to insure a successful completion of a planned hike, or essentials to make a hike enjoyable and comfortable? Bug repellent is not essential??? OK, maybe not for some folks, but I've gotten stuck in some mosquito, or, fly infested spots without repellent. What would I have done with a gps on the AT, swat the flying horde with it? Ya want to talk essential, how about maybe 5 feet of duct tape.

Sly
08-04-2008, 03:22
I guess the only thing I consider to be an ESSENTIAL is a P.M.A. ( Positive Mental Attiitude )

Absolutely, in addition to a little common sense and a quick wit.

fiddlehead
08-04-2008, 05:32
Are we talking about essentials for basic survival during a hike, or, essentials to insure a successful completion of a planned hike, or essentials to make a hike enjoyable and comfortable? Bug repellent is not essential??? OK, maybe not for some folks, but I've gotten stuck in some mosquito, or, fly infested spots without repellent. What would I have done with a gps on the AT, swat the flying horde with it? Ya want to talk essential, how about maybe 5 feet of duct tape.

I've never carried bug repellent either. I prefer a head net. (but no, it's not an essential to me)

Egads
08-04-2008, 07:10
Hiking the trails of the Southeast

Summer
Shelter, bag/quilt, light, food, water/Aquamira, benedryl (bee allergy), cordage

Winter
Add raingear, insulation, fire & stove

Rarely carried
Map, compass, whistle

I do not consider this an essential but I usually carry my Blackberry but seldom make calls. I have used the web browser to check weather, look up phone numbers to arrange a shuttle. I bring it for the alarm clock.

Blissful
08-04-2008, 09:47
I must have my essential - my thermarest seat cushion. ... :)

Bearpaw
08-04-2008, 12:30
The idea of "buying" the 10 essentials in a kit strikes me as marketing at its worst. I see these kits every day at my store and I recommend folks build their own for less money and hopefully with a better comprehension of how to use it.


There are a handful of needed categories for safe and enjoyable outings. They fall into categories like:

- Navigation
- Light
- Insulation
- Shelter
- First Aid
- Sun and bug protection
- Water
- Signalling
- Fire/warmth
- Food

That said, I believe the "10 needs" would be a better way to look at the "essentials". Some times one of those needs goes away, like insulation in the southeast in August. You can survive just fine when the night time low is 70 without a sleeping bag or quilt.

Fishing hooks sound good except that in the east, excluding western Maine, you are rarely so separated from civilization that starvation is a serious issue. The "food" category is not nearly so high on the list as people think.

Water, OTOH, is a necessity any where, any time, so a container, and possibly the means to treat it are important. BUT remember that dehydration will kill in a mater of a few days, while water-borne pathogens (if present at all) generally take 7-10 days to hit your system. If you don't have water treatment, it's better to drink untreated than go without because you're worried about cooties.

My first aid kit is simple and multipurpose. ACE bandage, tiny scissors, neosporin, a few cloth bandaids, and meds. The meds are the most heavily used - acetamenophine, ibuprofen, an anti-allergen, and an anti-diarrheal. I have been a wilderness EMT. Most injuries fall into the helicopter or bandaid category. The walking wounded can usually be treated with a cravat/bandanna and the RICE treatment technique.

If you think in terms of the above categories, you get a much more comprehensive idea of what the 10 essentials look like. It's more than 10 items and certainly more than a kit. But if you use your knowledge, wisdom, and ingenuity, the 10 needs can be met with less than 10 items as well.

Marta
08-04-2008, 13:09
Interesting question...

This past weekend I went with a few adults on their first-ever backpacking trip. Yesterday morning we had a short discussion (actually, mostly a lecture from me) about safety. My main point was that they should always take responsibility for themselves, and never delegate it to a hike leader, or someone else. Important steps: know your own capabilities and plan a trip that falls within those limits (corollary is to start easy and progressively plan harder trips as you build up skill and confidence); leave a hike plan with some non-panicky family member or friend; map, compass, and whistle for route-finding and emergency communication; if you're with a group, make sure you have a plan before the group straggles apart.

fiddlehead
08-04-2008, 13:48
Yeah, that whistle is going to do you a lot of good in the wild.
Good luck with that one.

Give me a lighter and you can have the other nine.

Plodderman
08-04-2008, 13:58
First aid kit, moleskin, duct tape, water, maps, head lamp, hiking pole, knife other than that just the normal stuff.

I have hiked without a map but I prefer a map most of the time. It eases thing when I might be off trail by checking land marks.

The Solemates
08-04-2008, 15:19
it depends on what you are comfortable with.....that's what it boils down to. to many, a first aid kit, bug repellant, and etc are not essential....especially on the AT

Mags
08-04-2008, 15:56
Wine.

(I am of Italian ancestry after all...)

That is all. Thank you.

JAK
08-04-2008, 16:13
I leave some of the so-called 10 essentials behing, but not to lighten my load.
More often it is because I don't consider it essential to that particular trip.
Safety. Hell yeah. But there is more to safety than following someone elses list.

I make my own list. I am more interested in keeping it simple than keeping it light.

JAK
08-04-2008, 16:59
Here is my 'essentials' list for the Fundy Footpath.

Stuff I always bring and consider essential...
1. Clothing (always includes wool+shell+hat)
2. Food
3. Water Bottle
4. Firestarter+Mug+Spoon
5. Map+Compass+Watch
6. Ground Pad, Blanket/Quilt/SleepingBag, Shelter
7. Cell Phone (to leave daily message on answering machine)

Stuff I always bring though don't always consider 'essential'...
8. Candle Lantern and/or Headlamp
9. Knife and/or Hatchet
10. Extra cordage, a few nails (same cordage as my shoe laces and poncho/tarp)
11. Sewing/Repair/First-Aid Kit
12. Bug Repellant
13. Zinc Oxide

The extra cordage is enough to hang my food when I need to.

JAK
08-04-2008, 17:37
Most first aid kits that they sell in drug stores are such a joke.
Too many freaking band-aids, and very little for anything serious.

1. If you carry a knife, you should be prepared for serious cuts.
2. If you use a stove, you should be prepared for serious burns.
3. If you use your arms and legs, you should be prepared for serious fractures.

With this in mind I am not too concerned about my first-aid kit, as it is usually stuff outside of my first aid kit that I would use to administer the first-aid.
1. Sterilized spare socks for field dressing
2. Water bottle for irrigating wounds
3. Kettle for boiling water for disinfecting dressings etc
4. Distilled alcohol for disinfecting and irrigating etc
5. Cordage, Blue Foam Pad, Knife/Hatchet, nails, for making splints, stretcher, whatever.

My first aid kit itself is pretty small, and is combined with my sewing kit.
Mostly gauze bandages, tape, serious pain killers, alcohol if not carried as fuel.

I think it makes sense to carry all you alcohol in a single container for multiple uses, rather than as separate items for different purposes like alcohol wipes, hand santizers, mouth wash, fuel, etc. Dilute it with water as you need it. Use the same bottle for everday purposes such as mouthwash, aftershave, deodorizing, but always have enough for first-aid also. Carry pure ethyl alcohol, even if you have to pay tax on it or make your own. Why carry poison?

GoldenBear
08-04-2008, 18:25
The purpose of a whistle

is to alert people nearby of where you are and that you are in an emergency situation. Three whistle toots will alert people of your location and need for help for over a kilometer, even if you are in thick fog or pitch dark night, completely out of site of the trail (like if you fall down a ravine), or out of cell range. You can whistle for hours even if you are completely immobilized or have severe injuries.

Will it help if nobody's nearby? No more than any other alarm, but also no less. For a few ounces and about a buck in cost (and not one penny after your initial purchase), I consider it a pretty good investment of something that will last a lifetime.

I've carried a whistle for over twenty years of hiking, and never used it once. During my one time of needing help, I used my cell phone. But I'll always carry one when I go hiking, even if I go a couple hundred meters into the woods. If it only helps me once to summon aid or get me located, it'll be worth the weight and money (in both cases, almost nothing) I expend for it.

Summit
08-04-2008, 18:51
All I know is coffee is about 8 of those 10 essentials! :D

And if you've ever hit the trail without it, most will agree toilet paper belongs on the short list! :eek:

Wise Old Owl
08-05-2008, 23:44
1.Good topo Map
2. Compass (when all else fails)
3. Headlamp & extra batteries
4. Extra Food (gorp bars)
5. light 1pound down bag
6. Sunglasses
7. First-Aid Kit with added medicine (lopermine & zinc ointment
8. Pocket Knifes Locking blade & Swiss army
9. Waterproof Wind Matches& lighter
10. Firestarter (magniesum bar)
11. Water / small Filter / Bottles ( I can't use iodine due to allergy)
12. Whistle( I don’t find much value with this)
13. Insect Repellent Deep Woods Off &head net
14. Sunburn Preventatives
15. Cell Phone & spare battery <<< that's my watch.
16. Spare key for car. (Obvious)
17. small plastic flask of Jim Beam for medicinal purpous only, to share w/ friends!
18. reflective thumbtacks & concrete string.


Thank's Summit, I forgot the TP
Fiddlehead - the order changes - sunglasses are at the bottom, when in Maine, bug spray is right at the top.


Ohh come on who's counting.....

Tipi Walter
08-06-2008, 00:07
I suppose things like a pack, shelter, foul weather gear, food and water are essential. Other than that, I'm at a loss. Sorry.

I think the whole Ten Essentials hysteria came out of the dayhiking community, as in: Stuff to put in a daypack for a dayhike. On the other hand, most backpackers like to say everything they carry is essential and for their own survival. Such as the 7 Holy Nylons:

Tent(shelter)
Pack
Bag
Pad
Clothing
Water jugs
Food

A couple of years ago I made a pretty good list of the Non-Boring Ten Essentials, one of which was--

Divorce papers as your wife sure won't join you.

But if I allowed myself to list the other 9 I'd be muzzled and deleted, etc.

Wise Old Owl
08-06-2008, 00:24
there's a good list there I bet. Thank's Tipi

Nearly Normal
08-06-2008, 01:09
Protection against the elements.
Food
Water
Something to carry it all in.
Desire

Can't think of another thing needed.

fiddlehead
08-06-2008, 01:39
Protection against the elements.
Food
Water
Something to carry it all in.
Desire

Can't think of another thing needed.

Lighter. No. 1 on my list.

10-K
08-06-2008, 15:18
I must have my essential - my thermarest seat cushion. ... :)

Amen to that! I consider this my one must-have luxury item.

cowboy nichols
08-06-2008, 16:00
In regard to a whistle, my son and I were hiking and as usual he ranged ahead. The fog settled in and you literaly could barely see 3 ft. ahead. The whistles both of us carried helped us to rejoin and proseed. Possibly we would have been ok but I for one never regretted the cost or the wt. of a whistle. It also helped to find a lost friend in a snow storm.

Summit
08-06-2008, 17:45
Lighter. No. 1 on my list.Important to me too, but I wouldn't rate it #1 all time because some folks don't carry stoves, eat nothin' but cold food, and prefer to gaze at the stars rather than camp fires. Doing that eliminates the need for one altogether. :)

fiddlehead
08-06-2008, 20:56
Important to me too, but I wouldn't rate it #1 all time because some folks don't carry stoves, eat nothin' but cold food, and prefer to gaze at the stars rather than camp fires. Doing that eliminates the need for one altogether. :)

That depends on where you hike i guess.
I was talking about staying warm. (I was caught out once, in the snow at 9,000' in NM, I'll never forget it. Built a huge fire. Temps were probably in the teens)

canoehead
08-06-2008, 21:16
And thats why you carry them. Just in case

Wise Old Owl
08-06-2008, 22:01
That's a good justification;

Wilson
08-06-2008, 22:18
The most essential thing about a cell phone.

Is for it to rest in its charger on the kitchen counter, while I drive to the mountains.

Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 12:24
Important to me too, but I wouldn't rate it #1 all time because some folks don't carry stoves, eat nothin' but cold food, and prefer to gaze at the stars rather than camp fires. Doing that eliminates the need for one altogether. :)

I would still carry a small one and patches of char cloth at the bottom of a sealed wind match container. (doesn't weigh anything)

Mr. Parkay
10-05-2008, 13:15
When I started to read this thread I wasn't really sure what the "10 essentials" were. However, after reading a few top ten lists on the web, there is one piece of equipment that stands out as being the most unnecessary of all, even though it appears on most of the lists... its Sunglasses.

Although sunglasses might be nice to have from time to time, I wouldn't call them "essential" unless you're on a winter hike and are worried about snow blindness.

Other than that I pretty much agree with the other items commonly found on the lists.... even though I choose not to carry some of them.

dessertrat
10-05-2008, 13:47
Most first aid kits that they sell in drug stores are such a joke.
Too many freaking band-aids, and very little for anything serious.


I think it makes sense to carry all you alcohol in a single container for multiple uses, rather than as separate items for different purposes like alcohol wipes, hand santizers, mouth wash, fuel, etc. Dilute it with water as you need it. Use the same bottle for everday purposes such as mouthwash, aftershave, deodorizing, but always have enough for first-aid also. Carry pure ethyl alcohol, even if you have to pay tax on it or make your own. Why carry poison?

Agree and agree. Too many bandaids in first aid kits, when a "band aid" can be made for any size or need by having some gauze and some duct tape.

And everclear is the best, if you are an alcohol stove user. You can use it to disinfect, to burn in a stove, or to get rip roaring drunk.;)

Nearly Normal
10-05-2008, 16:58
And everclear is the best, if you are an alcohol stove user. You can use it to disinfect, to burn in a stove, or to get rip roaring drunk.;)

Great multi-function tip.

Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 19:03
unless you are suffering from hypothermia - Everclear is not sold in PA.

Wags
10-06-2008, 00:02
i consider an extra pair of socks to be in my 10 essentials
also in that list is a beanie

blah blah blah for the other 8, what everyone else said

rafe
10-06-2008, 04:54
You'll never know an item is "essential" until you find yourself needing it and not having it. There are a few items I've carried... and will continue to carry, even though I've never used or needed them. A tiny compass, whistle, tweezers, needle & thread, first-aid supplies, backup Photon light.

I print out a checklist before every overnight hike, and go through the pack contents thoroughly. Each item on the list gets an X or a check mark. X means it was considered, but not taken. Check mark means it's in the pack. If it's been a while, the stove and canister weight are checked.

Hooch
10-06-2008, 05:03
i consider an extra pair of socks to be in my 10 essentials For any hike lasting longer than a 2-3 hours, I have to agree with you. I learned the hard way during my enlistment in the Marines that an extra pair of socks is indispensible. You can never be too careful when it comes to taking care of your feet, IMO. After all, they're what get you from A to B.

Montana Mac
10-06-2008, 06:18
The purpose of a whistle is to alert people nearby of where you are and that you are in an emergency situation. Three whistle toots will alert people of your location and need for help for over a kilometer, even if you are in thick fog or pitch dark night, completely out of site of the trail (like if you fall down a ravine), or out of cell range.

Will it help if nobody's nearby? .

Speaking from personal experience I found a whistle really is NOT that good, even though I had carried one for years. I was section hiking the 100 mile wilderness in Maine with my brother and two other people (one being my step-son at that time). I had left camp the earliest and hit the trail. It was a rainy morning and had rained most of the day before. When I came to a rushing creek that had a narrow slippery log as the only means to cross I decided to wait until the others arrived. My brother and his friend arrived and I asked where the other guy was. They said his ankle was bothering him and he was a ways behind. I told them to go ahead and I would wait. They crossed with no problem and had just disappeared into the brush/woods on the other side when I started vomiting blood. I grabbed my trusted whistle and blew it to get their attention. As I continued vomiting blood I blew the whistle a few more times until I had to hit the bushes quick because the blood decided to exit from both ends. After my step-son arrived we crossed and headed for the next road crossing. When we reached the road crossing I dropped my pack and went ahead to find my brother at the next lean-to a short distance from the road. They never heard the whistle. I let him know that I was done hiking and headed back to the road crossing to hitch back to my van.

After that experience I don't bother with the whistle and believe in relying on myself to get out of a situation. If I am conscious I will do what I can - if I'm not the whistle won't make a difference. If I die out in the woods that sure as hell beats dying in some rest home or hospital.

rafe
10-06-2008, 06:34
Speaking from personal experience I found a whistle really is NOT that good, even though I had carried one for years.

Whether it works or not, it weighs a fraction of an ounce, so what the heck. I've heard that banging on a cook pot is an alternative. I hope I never need to use either method.

Tin Man
10-06-2008, 06:38
Whether it works or not, it weighs a fraction of an ounce, so what the heck. I've hear that banging on a cook pot is an alternative. I hope I never need to use either method.

banging on the cookpot is very distinct... and it works to chase bears out of camp. whistle is redundant and worthless.

canoehead
10-06-2008, 09:17
The 10 essentials is about being prepared, not lightening your load.
I've been involved in plenty of SAR attemps and when and if found most of them were not prepared.
So argue if you must, in the we'll still come out and try to help or find you that you can count on...............

dessertrat
10-06-2008, 09:49
unless you are suffering from hypothermia - Everclear is not sold in PA.

They trust the liquor store clerk to decide whether you are suffering from hypothermia so should have the everclear?:)

trouthunter
10-06-2008, 10:11
I've been backpacking for 20 plus years, longer than some, less than some. I have several skilled mentors. Among them are mountaineers, wilderness EMT's, SAR people.
I've been on a couple NOLS trips, and been in varying types of terrain.
I've done both traditional backpacking and the UL version.
If you don't know what the ten essentials are, Google it and you will find it for sure.

canoehead is correct. The ten essentials is about being prepared, it should be considered a basic guideline that you couple with your own experiences in the areas you frequent to put together a list of gear that will serve everyday purposes as well as being essential in an emergency. Anyones gear list should be made up of items that are dual or multi purpose.
Bearpaw listed the categories in his post. As he correctly stated, there may be multiple items in each category, or you may find that one item will serve several purposes.

On the subject of navigation: I have read many posts by people who wonder why you would want or need navigation gear on the AT or similar blazed trails.
The answer is very simple, you should have a basic knowledge of navigation period.
You can not learn this just by reading a book at home, nor can you learn if you are lost.
The time to learn is when you are in the backcountry and already know where you are!
No one should head out without a map and compass IMO. A GPSR is only a supplement to a map and compass and works only if you already know how to use it and have a map.

Yeah,yeah I know you can map your trek using way points and do the famous 180.
But it isn't that simple, the GPSR can tell you where you are and where you have been ( if you enter the info correctly) but it isn't worth a damn without a map to plot your future course on. Even if you have the coords for your destination all the GPSR can do is tell you how to get there as the crow flies, you still need a map to plot a realistic course!

Tin Man
10-06-2008, 10:17
We teach our scouts map and compass and reinforce it on a regular basis. Once they think they have it mastered, we have them teach the younger boys. The scoutmaster thought we might want to include GPS training. I replied, "what for?"

berninbush
10-06-2008, 10:59
I think some of the debate over the "essentials" comes from the question, "essential for WHAT?"

The lists that include things like sunglasses probably aren't thinking in terms of "essential for SURVIVAL in an emergency/ unplanned situation." They're more like "essential to your comfort on an ordinary hike." (Even then I would disagree... I never wear sunglasses, especially in the woods.)

Is bugspray essential for survival? Well, maybe if you're in Alaska in summer where the mosquitoes can suck a moose dry in minutes. Maybe in coastal Texas, too-- an Ike survivor was taken to the hospital with literally over 1,000 bites on his body. It might keep you from developing malaria or St. Louis encephylitis. If you're lost in the woods in Virginia in November... it's probably not going to help you much with survival.

Sunscreen for survival? Makes a difference whether you're hiking in the Utah desert or the Appalachian woods. Your skin tone also matters.

Warm clothing for survival? Essential in Maine in winter. Not essential in Texas in July.

On the other hand... emergency shelter? I would call that essential for pretty much any hike.

Maybe there should be three separate lists: "essentials for extreme terrain/conditions," "essentials for comfort and safety on an ordinary hike," and "essentials for survival in case something goes terribly, terribly wrong."

Wags
10-06-2008, 12:39
on the subject of bugspray being essential i thought i'd note that the mosquito is the deadliest animal on the planet

Connie
10-07-2008, 12:09
I carry very lightweight 10 essentials.

I have 10 pages about the ten essentials.
Here is the intro: http://www.ultralightbackpackingonline.info/facts1.html

If you think that is dumb, dumber and dumbest thing you ever heard of, it is the reason I put a copyright on my website way back in 2003: REI ripped off one important idea. REI put on their advice, have stuff for overnight even if you got out on a short walk in the mountains.

I really didn't mind REI did that. It was a compliment sort of: there was no acknowledgement.

I have stuff for other people, their bee stings, their burned fingers, their poison ivy. It doesn't hurt me to carry small packages of that stuff.

I guess it was because I really was a Girl Scout.

SunnyWalker
08-13-2009, 23:25
Connie: Nice site. I appreciate it. Thanks.

Wise Old Owl
08-13-2009, 23:32
Amen - thanks for bringing the thread from the bottom

Really brought back memories.