View Full Version : Tent vs Shelter
joshua5878
08-04-2008, 10:51
Long time lurker, 1st time poster. Planning a 2009 NOBO to leave end Feb early March. (1st thruhike) In shopping tents I am trying to consider the fact that shelter sleeping will be a good percentage of the hike but there are occasions where it sounds like tenting will be a necesity. Not brave enough to go without! I am GOING to keep my pack weight to 35 lbs or less but wonder if it is worth the extra 1-2 lbs to go with a 3 person tent and have lots of room to make the tenting more enjoyable? I have found some 3 person tents that are not much more weight than a 2 person and definately couldn't deal with the cramped quaters of a solo tent or tarp. ( I am 6'3") Here is a 5 lb 3 person pricey condo. http://www.rei.com/product/764121
It is 1 lb more than the 2 person same model. I am willing to make cuts in other things (lbs) to have a nice shelter.
Thanks so much to this site and all of the wonderful posts I have read and all of the free info! It is amazing! Thanks in advance for any input. Kevin
Plodderman
08-04-2008, 11:01
I am also tall but I carry a one man tent because it is light. Over the past few years hiking the Trail I have only tented once so I usually stay in the shelter but those who tent alot enjoy their own space, quiet and a softer sleep area. I am not sure I would go as large as a three man tent for the fact of space required to camp and pack space.
Not brave enough to go without!
It's not a matter of being brave. It's a matter of being SMART. ANd you'll have much more flexibility.
( I am 6'3") Here is a 5 lb 3 person pricey condo. http://www.rei.com/product/764121 (http://www.rei.com/product/764121)
Thanks in advance for any input. Kevin
I assume there are two of you going, thus the desire for a three person shelter. I haven't seen the copper spur in the REI where I work yet, but it's specs look impressive. The one that came to my mind immediately was the REI Quarter Dome T3 (http://www.rei.com/product/761895?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000), a tent I am intimately familiar with. It has nearly replaced the MSR Hubba Hubba my wife and I use in the winter.
This gives a quick comparison (http://www.rei.com/ComparisonChartDisplay.do?type=User&storeId=8000)of the two. The Copper Spur is still a bit larger and a bit lighter. But if you want a great tent for about half the price, the T3 is a good option.
No matter WHAT tent you go with, make sure it provides true vertical walls. The T3 and Copper Spur both have this capability due to a pole structure that provides a mid horizontal support. Without it, all that floor space is lost when you sit up and brush into the tent wall as it slopes inward. This is an issue with nearly all non-free-standing tents and with many free-standers.
Having double doors and vestibules is another great feature, especially if your or your partner routinely get up to answer nature's call every night. You don't have to wake your partner. It becomes a very livable tent when you have to stay inside all afternoon and evening while staying out of a storm.
Hope this helps provide some food for thought.
Tarptent, 2-man at the most!
Any of these brands:
Henry Shires, Six Moon, Gossamer Gear, AntiGravity, GoLite
Don't understand your comment on the cramped quarters of a tarp. Most tarps are much more roomy then most any tent, and they come in all sizes.
Also, let me duck now, have you considered one of those hanging things. Not supposed to mention them since you asked about tents, but I'll take my chances...
My personal choices of shelter options:
Gossamer Gear, The One
Six Moon Designs, Wild Oasis
Sierra Designs, Clip Flashlight (rarely used anymore)
Speer Hammocks, Speer IIIA with Cat Tarp
GoLite, Cave II (sold when I got my Speer Tarp)
I have been fully satisfied by all of these choices and would recommend any of them. Most of these are one-person options but plenty roomy.
Try sleeping out a few times in a smaller shelter. Doesn't seem worth it to me to carry an extra pound or two for the occasional night. But to each their own.
Best of luck on your hike.
Bring a tent for sure. Shelters could be packed on not aligned with miles hiked (when you are ready to stop hiking or want to go further), I really like the flexibility of being able to camp wherever and whenever I want. Tarptent is my choice, 34 ounces.
Blissful
08-04-2008, 18:33
We liked the MSR hubba hubba ourselves. We did use a Squall tarptent for the beginning, but 2 people in rain did pose condensation problems (our sleeping bags got wet). I was fine when I was in it alone though. It was nice to have a two wall tent up north though with the weather in the Whites, etc.
And having a tent or tarp is really a necessity. Don't assume you will be staying in shelters. Like in the Smokies, if they are all reserved by sectioners (and ridgerunners patrol too) you must tent. Besides, most shelters are really pretty nasty.
bigcranky
08-04-2008, 20:36
If there are two of you, the Tarptent Rainshadow II is a three-person shelter that weighs about 42 ounces complete. Plenty of room inside for 3 adults, or two adults plus gear, and it has excellent weather protection.
www.tarptent.com
Does anyone have web links for sites showing Tarp Pitching Styles?
I've been using 2 or 3 different setups, but I'd like to see what else is possible.
Thanks.
SmokeHouse
08-05-2008, 00:35
If there are two of you, the Tarptent Rainshadow II is a three-person shelter that weighs about 42 ounces complete. Plenty of room inside for 3 adults, or two adults plus gear, and it has excellent weather protection.
www.tarptent.com (http://www.tarptent.com)
I am 6'1 and have the Tarptent Cloudburst II. Its a great shelter, but I would have to agree with bigcranky about the Rainshadow II. If their are two going for the long haul, you may need alittle more elbow room.
LIhikers
08-05-2008, 06:54
My wife use the Tarptent Rainshadow 2 www.tarptent.com/products.html (http://www.tarptent.com/products.html) and like it. Besides that, it's both cheaper and lighter than the one posted a link to. The only thing, it's not freestanding.
Don't carry a three person tent, silly way to carry extra weight.
Kirby
mister krabs
08-05-2008, 09:07
Does anyone have web links for sites showing Tarp Pitching Styles?
I've been using 2 or 3 different setups, but I'd like to see what else is possible.
Thanks.
http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html
joshua5878
08-05-2008, 10:27
Thanks for all of the responses! One thing I wasn't thinking about besides just weight was pure pack "bulk". I am hiking solo. I am on "information overload" from this great site but the couple things I have gotten out of all of these posts is to really take the pack weight seriously. The other big 2 are feet and mileage. I have been softened by a 25 year "white collar" job and know that starting out I will be exposed to the greatest pains which are my feet and trying to go too far too fast! I have 7-8 months to prepare/train so shame on me if I am not ready! Thanks again for all of the input. Kevin
superman
08-05-2008, 10:38
I just came back from Sweden. I brought all real light gear that worked great except...I forgot my sleeping pad...not a big deal...I forgot my mosguito netting...HUGE deal. Even though it got cold the first night the mosguitoes just kept on coming. If I'd brought my tent instead of my tarp maybe the tick wouldn't have got such a good bite...if, if, if. It was a great time even with the mosquitoes. Shelters suck in any language.:)
( I am 6'3")
Don't assume that a 2 or 3 man tent is longer than the solo tents. I wanted a MSR Hubba Hubba for space, too. A trip to REI pointed out that the Hubba (solo) is a little longer than a Hubba Hubba (2-man). I believe the BA Seedhouse is the same way. Look the spec's over, then try it in person before deciding.
Consider a tarp. Much lighter. I have a homemade ray-way tarp. The tarp and stakes weigh 19oz. I also have a net tent, that weighs less than a lb. Plenty of room for all your gear. You do give up head room, but its worth the sacrifice to lose the weight, IMO. Tarps have better ventilation than tents, thus less condensation, and I believe that translates to keeping you warmer.
I suggest you come up to Georgia and do a shakedown hike with all your gear in winter. It gets brutally cold in Georgia in Feb and March.
mister krabs
08-05-2008, 11:40
I suggest you come up to Georgia and do a shakedown hike with all your gear in winter. It gets brutally cold in Georgia in Feb and March.
:banana:banana:banana
Well, let's qualify that by saying that in atlanta they talk about "the" blizzard, 10 inches of snow on a march morning in 93, not "the blizzard of [insert year here]
There's cold and there's cold, and IMHO, georgia is rarely either.
If you check out wunderground.com it will give you historical graphs of temp, precip and stuff. Check it out "history and almanac" lower middle left of this page
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=dahlonega
...There's cold and there's cold, and IMHO, georgia is rarely either...
In late Feb/early March, it does get brutally cold in the Georgia Mountains. Average weather in nearby, lower elevation, towns does not tell the story. He can expect the thirties/twenties, but better be prepared to go into the teens/single digits. Wind chill, which is really the number that counts can and will be brutal.
Its not Alpine conditions, but its enough to cause pain/death to the ill prepared.
It has been my observation that those who leave early, spend much more nights in hotels, than they planned.
mister krabs
08-05-2008, 12:32
I absolutely agree, just have a different perception of brutal. Historical data from nearby locations is just another tool when one is preparing.
I used (and still use) a tarptent squall 2 and was very happy with it. 34 ounces for what feels like the taj mahal. Andre the giant would be comfortable in that thing.
The Tarptents I've got (Virga I and Cloudburst) are particularly suitable for tall people. I can lie down and still have a couple of feet of extra room at head or feet. Some of the more compact tents (esp. Zoids) seem terribly cramped to me. IMO, any tent that doesn't have room for my pack, shoes, and a bunch of stuff spread out, is too small.
bigcranky
08-05-2008, 20:46
If you are solo, then the Tarptent Rainbow is suitable for tall hikers. Plenty of room for you and gear. Good coverage and weather protection. Light weight.
Pepper Beard
08-07-2008, 01:51
rgia is rarely either.
If you check out wunderground.com it will give you historical graphs of temp, precip and stuff. Check it out "history and almanac" lower middle left of this page
http://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=dahlonega
But that list the temperature at Dahlonega which sits at elevation 1410 feet. A lot if not most of the AT in GA sits above 3,000 feet. Two different weather conditions.... A quick rule of thumb is 4 degrees cooler for every 1,000 feet.... A real good chance a rain in Dahlonega in Jan/Feb is snow along the AT.
I am GOING to keep my pack weight to 35 lbs or less but wonder if it is worth the extra 1-2 lbs to go with a 3 person tent and have lots of room to make the tenting more enjoyable? I have found some 3 person tents that are not much more weight than a 2 person and definately couldn't deal with the cramped quaters of a solo tent or tarp. ( I am 6'3") Here is a 5 lb 3 person pricey condo. http://www.rei.com/product/764121
In my opinion absolutely not. You need to decide wether or not you want to bring everything,including your pack, into your shelter with you. If not, go with a solo (good quality) tent. Make sure it has a large vestibule for your gear and pack storage. If you do, then go with a good quality 2 person tent. Planning an early northbound start and want the tenting to be more enjoyable? In my opinion, get the 1 or 2 person tent and invest in a quality four season pad and bag.
Feral Bill
08-07-2008, 14:12
The Clip Flashlight is long enough for 6'3" people and roomy enough for gear. A bit over 4 pounds. An 8x10 plain tarp weighs about 1 1/2 pounds with stakes, line, and a groundcloth, and offers huge room for one. Tent=no bugs, Tarp=little weight. Take your pick.
stranger
08-13-2008, 04:24
I would spend a good amount of time researching and thinking about your tent, tarp, shelter, hammock, whatever - there is nothing like having your own shelter, being able to camp anywhere you want, avoiding shelters, etc...
I would strongly suggest not depending on shelters in any fashion, especially on a thru-hike where you will most likely be leaving with tons of other hikers.
Tenting is great, even when it rains!
IMO, a 3-person tent is a bit crazy. You will find, in some cases, that the larger area is a disadvantage, in terms of finding suitable tent sites. The extra weight, of course, is another factor.
The Old Fhart
08-13-2008, 16:58
PJ 2005-"I used (and still use) a tarptent squall 2 and was very happy with it. 34 ounces for what feels like the taj mahal. Andre the giant would be comfortable in that thing."André the Giant died in 1993. If you're saying anyone would only be caught dead in a tarptent, many would agree.;)
joshua5878
08-13-2008, 17:43
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=47
Lunar Duo
standard floor. Seems to have what I was looking for and the weight looks reasonable. One of you guys recommened it and I liked the specs on it, let me know what you think? Oh, took my 10 year old to Busch Gardens in Tampa on Sunday. March can't get here soon enough, that is insanity!
http://www.sixmoondesigns.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=47
Lunar Duo
standard floor. Seems to have what I was looking for and the weight looks reasonable. One of you guys recommened it and I liked the specs on it, let me know what you think? Oh, took my 10 year old to Busch Gardens in Tampa on Sunday. March can't get here soon enough, that is insanity!
You will really like it.:)
Skidsteer
08-13-2008, 23:01
Does anyone have web links for sites showing Tarp Pitching Styles?
I've been using 2 or 3 different setups, but I'd like to see what else is possible.
Thanks.
http://hikinghq.net/gear/tarp.html
Another good link for pitching tarps (http://www.equipped.org/tarp-shelters.htm).
i'd recommend sleeping in shelters when you can. they have a very bad rep around this particular website but a main, and overlooked reason, for them is to reduce environmental impact tenting can have. i personally don't particularly enjoy hiking and seeing all this pretty stuff then some big circle of pushed down plants, maybe a fire ring, and a few random pieces of trash. my 2 cents, bring the tent, but sleep where you're supposed to. some people 'stealth' and think it's cool, but it's not