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Mr. Parkay
08-09-2008, 21:26
hello,

Here's a link to an elevation profile for the entire BMT:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4650379/BMT-elevaton-Profile

It's way too big to print out... but I think it's pretty cool to look at...
At some point I'll try to break it up so that individual sections can be printed out.


--- Parkay

Sly
08-09-2008, 21:32
Not as flat as the APT or GPT!

Gray Blazer
08-09-2008, 21:33
I've done that last part from the right. 4000 ft elevation gain. Next time I'll do it in reverse. Good to hear from you.

generoll
08-09-2008, 21:33
Great profile. I'm guessing that Mount Sterling and Laurel Gap shelter are to the far right with Enloe Creek and Smokemont to the left a bit. Just like I pictured them when I was huffing and puffing up from Enloe Creek.

Mr. Parkay
08-09-2008, 21:36
I've done that last part from the right. 4000 ft elevation gain. Next time I'll do it in reverse. Good to hear from you.

Yeah, I remember Mt. Sterling well... I hiked the BMT Southbound and the 4000 foot climb up Mt. Sterling on the first day just about killed me!

Sly
08-09-2008, 21:37
It's way too big to print out... but I think it's pretty cool to look at...
At some point I'll try to break it up so that individual sections can be printed out.
--- Parkay

If you have REALLY good eyes it prints on 8.5 x 11".

Mr. Parkay
08-09-2008, 21:38
Great profile. I'm guessing that Mount Sterling and Laurel Gap shelter are to the far right with Enloe Creek and Smokemont to the left a bit. Just like I pictured them when I was huffing and puffing up from Enloe Creek.

Yep... and you can zoom in all the way to read the labels... plus you can download the pdf file so to navigate a little better.

Mr. Parkay
08-09-2008, 21:42
If you have REALLY good eyes it prints on 8.5 x 11".

Ha ha... my eyes are definitely not that good... Also, I can personally attest that the BMT is a lot Bumpier that the Pinhoti... except at the end of the Georgia Pinhoti, when it climbs up into the mountain to meet with the BMT

EMAN
08-09-2008, 22:26
I think I am about to do that last section to the right. From Smokemont to Davenport? Maybe over Labor Day.
Been to Mt. Sterling via Big Creek. Stayed soemwhere below Sterling the first night and did that climb the second and yes...holy crap...what a climb. Worst part was getting to the water source which was supposedly (and probably was) another 700 yds downhill. Then back up to the CS at Sterling. EEEk!
Anyway, this is great. But I can't seem to download the PDF. OE?

Gray Blazer
08-09-2008, 22:34
I've got some good pics from the tower on Mt Sterling in my WB gallery as well as a pic of Mr. Parkay on his AT thru-hike.

Tipi Walter
08-10-2008, 10:26
I checked out your profile map and past Hiway 64 and the level John Muir section it looks pretty good, but past Beech Gap going down to Cold Spring Gap and points further it's a pitiful, unmarked mess. Sassafras Gap? Where the heck is Sassafras Gap? And why is a gap on top of a mountain? Is Sassafras Gap supposed to be Big Fodderstack Mountain?

Upon cursory examination, starting past the Hiway 64 crossing and the level John Muir section, I see where it crosses Hiway 68 and begins the long climb up to Peels Top and over to Sandy Gap. Past here the trail climbs up to Sled Runner Gap and then the long downhill to Brookshire Creek. The short up is over Sugar Mt and points north.

The long up to the Whigg is obvious. And then the 500 foot drop to Mud Gap(unmarked), the short up to the Rock Quarry(unmarked), the down to North River road(unmarked), the quick uphill over Johns Knob(unmarked), and then the short down to a level Beech Gap, unmarked.

Past Beech Gap the profile map gets skewered and shows a long fairly steep downhill to someplace I'm not sure of, Cold Spring Gap? The new BMT connecter on Trail 149? It couldn't be near Cherry Log Gap as reaching it entails a climb. This whole section is unmarked and apparently wrong. Where's Crowders? Big Fodderstack? Little Fodderstack? Farr Gap? Slickrock Creek? Calderwood Lake?

Mr. Parkay
08-10-2008, 11:52
Hey Tipi,

It's good to see that you have analyzed the profile pretty thoroughly! I created the profile pretty fast (in about 2 hours) so I haven't added as many labels as I should... or checked it for errors or reroutes.

In regards to Sassafrass Gap, its kind of crazy how it's a "gap" but it looks like a mountain on the profiles. Anyhow, I suppose the word "gap" refers to it's position on the Appalachian trail, where Sassafras gap is on a ridge line. On the BMT, this point should probably be called a "ridge crossing". Map #26 of my maps shows showd the gap: http://picasaweb.google.com/Johnsonc80/BMTTopoMaps

I'm going to check out some of the other points that you mention... I'm curious if the profile is in error.. or needs labels

Sly
08-10-2008, 12:47
In regards to Sassafrass Gap, its kind of crazy how it's a "gap" but it looks like a mountain on the profiles. Anyhow, I suppose the word "gap" refers to it's position on the Appalachian trail, where Sassafras gap is on a ridge line.

That's probably correct. In relation to a trail, not all "gaps" are descents.

Mr. Parkay
08-10-2008, 13:30
I checked out your profile map and past Hiway 64 and the level John Muir section it looks pretty good, but past Beech Gap going down to Cold Spring Gap and points further it's a pitiful, unmarked mess. Sassafras Gap? Where the heck is Sassafras Gap? And why is a gap on top of a mountain? Is Sassafras Gap supposed to be Big Fodderstack Mountain?

Upon cursory examination, starting past the Hiway 64 crossing and the level John Muir section, I see where it crosses Hiway 68 and begins the long climb up to Peels Top and over to Sandy Gap. Past here the trail climbs up to Sled Runner Gap and then the long downhill to Brookshire Creek. The short up is over Sugar Mt and points north.

The long up to the Whigg is obvious. And then the 500 foot drop to Mud Gap(unmarked), the short up to the Rock Quarry(unmarked), the down to North River road(unmarked), the quick uphill over Johns Knob(unmarked), and then the short down to a level Beech Gap, unmarked.

Past Beech Gap the profile map gets skewered and shows a long fairly steep downhill to someplace I'm not sure of, Cold Spring Gap? The new BMT connecter on Trail 149? It couldn't be near Cherry Log Gap as reaching it entails a climb. This whole section is unmarked and apparently wrong. Where's Crowders? Big Fodderstack? Little Fodderstack? Farr Gap? Slickrock Creek? Calderwood Lake?

Here's a link to an updated version of the BMT profile... which has labels for most of the things mentioned above:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/4662310/BMT-profile-v-11

It turns out that many of the features don't stand out very well, but they are there, and I'm pretty sure the elevation is correct (within acceptable limits anyway).

Farr gap and Little Fodderstack were especially hard to locate since "Farr Gap", isn't really a gap in term of it's position on the BMT... since you never go downhill, kind of like with Sassafras Gap. Little fodderstack doesn't look like a peak because it doesn't stand out in relation to the surrounding area.

notes:
The mileage on the graph in this are is about 1 mile off from the databook. The reason is complicated, but I might try to account for the difference at some point.

Tipi Walter
08-10-2008, 14:55
Okay, I studied the thing again and found my mistake. I carefully followed the contours off the Whigg north and found Mud Gap, the Rock Quarry, the North Fork road crossing, the Johns Knob crossing and the Beech Gap/Cold Spring Gap area. The big hump to the right of Whiggs Meadow is Big Fodderstack Mt, and then comes Farr Gap-Stiffknee down to Slickrock and up and over Ike Branch back down to Slickrock and the Lake which is the lowest point on the map or close to it.

The rest is either the climb up from the Lake to Deals Gap and the Hiway walk, or the climb up from the TwentyMile ranger station into the Park.

Hikerhead
08-10-2008, 14:58
TW, you can click on the graph and pull it right or left to see the whole trail. I don't know if you saw that.

Mr. Parkay
08-10-2008, 15:22
I must say that I really enjoy creating these profiles! It was tough to figure out the process... but now it's a piece of cake. Except the labels, which are a pain to add.

Anyhow, up next will be a profile of the Continental Divide Trail (for one of the routes anyway) I doubt it's ever been done before, so it should be interesting.

Sly
08-10-2008, 15:52
Anyhow, up next will be a profile of the Continental Divide Trail (for one of the routes anyway) I doubt it's ever been done before, so it should be interesting.

Excellent. It would be nice if you could do them with each Jonathan Ley map. Do you have those?

http://www.phlumf.com/travels/cdt/cdtmaps.shtml

PS If you'd like I can send you a CD with all the maps.

Mr. Parkay
08-10-2008, 16:35
Excellent. It would be nice if you could do them with each Jonathan Ley map. Do you have those?

http://www.phlumf.com/travels/cdt/cdtmaps.shtml

PS If you'd like I can send you a CD with all the maps.

Yeah... I was thinking the same thing. I'll have to talk with Jonathan Ley about it at some point to see if he's interested. I'll send him an email once I get some of these "Big Profiles" online... which should be in a couple of hours or less. It will consist of 4 profiles... one for each state. There will be hardly any labels on the first version... since that would talk a long time.... but they will be an excellent preview of what's to come.

by the way, I have a copy of his maps, so I'm all good there. I was thinking about hiking the CDT this year... but it didn't work out.

Also, the CDT profile will be based entirely on his Google Earth track of the CDT, since that's all I need to create the profile.

Sly
08-10-2008, 16:40
Also, the CDT profile will be based entirely on his Google Earth track of the CDT, since that's all I need to create the profile.

You have that? I reinstalled XP a few months ago and lost all my Google Earth stuff. I had the AT, BMT, CDT, PCT, and Grand Enchantment Trail. Haven't bothered to go find all of it again.

PS: Nevermind, found it on Jonathan's site.

Tipi Walter
08-10-2008, 20:22
TW, you can click on the graph and pull it right or left to see the whole trail. I don't know if you saw that.

Yeah, I noticed that. I just mistook the mileage increments as being more detailed. I'd like to see the thing increased in detail about four times with a mile span covering about 4 times the graph space. This would really show the individual dips and rises so common on this trail.

Mr. Parkay
08-10-2008, 22:27
Excellent. It would be nice if you could do them with each Jonathan Ley map. Do you have those?

http://www.phlumf.com/travels/cdt/cdtmaps.shtml

PS If you'd like I can send you a CD with all the maps.

Well, I created some interesting CDT profiles... but they are too big to use with the scribd web site. Anyway, I'll put them online when I find a way host the pdf files.

SGT Rock
08-12-2008, 02:08
Outstanding work.

Mr. Parkay
08-13-2008, 21:05
hello,

I have updated the BMT profiles to include a bunch more labels... plus I've created a set of printer friendly profiles. Here's a link to those:


1 of 5: click here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4749472/BMT-Elevation-Profile-1-of-5-printer-friendly)
2 of 5: click here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4749487/BMT-Elevation-Profile-2-of-5-printer-friendly)
3 of 5: click here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4749504/BMT-Elevation-Profile-3-of-5-printer-friendly)
4 of 5: click here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4749511/BMT-Elevation-Profile-4-of-5-printer-friendly)
5 of 5: click here (http://www.scribd.com/doc/4749521/BMT-Elevation-Profile-5-of-5-printer-friendly)

This is pretty close to the final version... but there's still a couple of things that I might change. Let me know if you can think of any labels that need to be added.

--Mr. Parkay

Gray Blazer
08-13-2008, 21:13
Cool beans!!

Tipi Walter
08-13-2008, 21:44
Very nifty and fun to study. One trivial note: In between Chestnut Knob and Rockstack is Glenn Gap and between Rockstack and Big Fodderstack is Harrison Gap. I like the huge drop from the Fodderstack down to the Slickrock. I've backpacked this several times going from Slickrock to Crowders and it's a haul.

EMAN
08-13-2008, 22:39
This is just too cool.

vibedog
08-13-2008, 22:44
i was on the big crrek to mt sterling trail on friday, wow, what an elevation gain. the view was worth the pain.

Mr. Parkay
08-13-2008, 22:50
Very nifty and fun to study. One trivial note: In between Chestnut Knob and Rockstack is Glenn Gap and between Rockstack and Big Fodderstack is Harrison Gap. I like the huge drop from the Fodderstack down to the Slickrock. I've backpacked this several times going from Slickrock to Crowders and it's a haul.

Yeah... I remember the climb up rockstack when I was on the trail... I thought big fodderstack was the only climb... so when I got up rockstack I was thinking "where the heck did this mountain come from?" Anyhow I'll add labels for the things above later on tonight or tomorrow.

Tipi Walter
08-14-2008, 08:13
I'm gearing up for a trip onto section 3 of your profile map, the area between mileage 140-150 from the Bridge over Tellico River south to Sled Runner Gap. Your profile makes it look like a roller coaster but that's okay, I've done this route before.

ki0eh
08-14-2008, 22:06
If you don't mind my asking, how DO you make profiles like that?

Mr. Parkay
08-15-2008, 01:18
If you don't mind my asking, how DO you make profiles like that?

Hey Ki0eh,

the process for creating the profiles is pretty complicated, since it requires the use of several different applications, plus a fair amount of python code. So it would be tough for someone to repeat the process unless they are willing to learn some python programming. However, once the "system" setup the profiles are easy to make, since it's all computer generated.

Here's an outline of the process... however the gritty details are probably beyond the scope of this forum. (note: all of the programs used are freeware or shareware)

1. get a gps track for a trail (almost any format will do)
2. use "gpsbabel" to convert the gps track to .gpx format
3. use "Wissenbach Map" to add elevation data to the .gpx track
4. use "gpsbabel" to convert the gps track to compte gps format (.trk)
5. use python code from "pytrackprofiler-1.0" to calculate the distance between each point in the .trk file. These will be the coordinates for the x-axis.
6. use python code in conjuction with "MatPlotLib" to create the actual profiles, using data from "pytrackprofiler-1.0" for the x-axis, and elevation data from the .trk file for the y-axis.
7. Modify the python code to add labels to the profiles, and to save the files in pdf format.

I just figured out the process last week, so I haven't created very many profiles yet, but over time, my plan it to create printable profiles, like the ones above, for the AT, PCT and CDT (plus the Pinhoti and Bartram Trail). The only problem is the labels, since it take about 20 times longer to add the labels than it does to generate the profiles.

Should be interesting!

note: if anyone wants to give it a try... just send me an email and I can give a more detailed set of instructions.

EMAN
08-15-2008, 11:06
Vibedog-
What was the water supppy like up that way? Still gotta go back downhill to the source? There was a pipe sticking out of the ground that was running pretty good last time I was up that way. Even though there were notices that here was no water at CS38/Sterling

vibedog
08-15-2008, 12:16
i was carrying water in that day. we are gearing up for an AT hike thru the GSMNP next month. that hike was one of several shakedown hikes planned. i did not walk down to the water source near the top of the mountain. coming up the Baxter Creek Trail, their was plenty of creek water til about the half way mark. after that i saw no water until the sign saying water source near the top of the mountain, i hope this helps.