View Full Version : Learning from Karl (and other runners)
We all know that long distance runners could learn from hikers. ;-)
But what of the converse?
A few new things came to my attention since following Karl's site:
1) Hydropel on the feet. Some claim it allows skin to re-generate. Whats up with that?
2) Leuokotape. Never heard of it on Whiteblaze. Why not? Is it any good?
3) Fingerless gloves in the Summer. Is that just Karl or do others play that?
There is probably some important stuff they could teach that goes beyond gear and such, but this is a start. Anyone ever hear of this stuff?
I'm no runner, but I wear fingerless gloves in the summer. They protect my palms from the hiking poles, and protect the backs of my hands from the sun.
I noticed that Karl is wearing them, though he does not use poles. I assumed it was because it has been so cold, and he's trying to keep his hands warm. That's just a guess, though.
modiyooch
08-11-2008, 19:42
I am a runner and I think that running a marathon and a half every day for 45 days is insane, but I do understand it. Good luck to you, Karl.
Sidewinder
08-11-2008, 20:08
I'm no runner, but I wear fingerless gloves in the summer. They protect my palms from the hiking poles, and protect the backs of my hands from the sun.
I noticed that Karl is wearing them, though he does not use poles. I assumed it was because it has been so cold, and he's trying to keep his hands warm. That's just a guess, though.
I've seen quite a few hikers wearing fingerless gloves when using poles even in summer. I wear fingerless gloves with padded palms when I bike, but not when I hike. My guess is Karl wears them for a little extra warmth and to protect his hand with added cushion if he takes a fall like a cyclist would.
Blissful
08-11-2008, 20:11
Never thought of fingerless gloves, esp in summer. Curious as to why? To keep a firm grip on the poles? To keep them from chafing? I guess I could see it in cold, but is it that cold in Maine right now for gloves (except maybe at night if he is running then)?
I figured they were padded bike gloves, for the inevitable hand to the ground.
Hard to pull your hands up into your sleeves the way he is dressed. Cold hands are yucky.
I felt hard rain in FL that was like walking into a warm shower.
Don't get that kind here.
adventurousmtnlvr
08-11-2008, 21:06
We all know that long distance runners could learn from hikers. ;-)
But what of the converse?
A few new things came to my attention since following Karl's site:
1) Hydropel on the feet. Some claim it allows skin to re-generate. Whats up with that?
2) Leuokotape. Never heard of it on Whiteblaze. Why not? Is it any good?
3) Fingerless gloves in the Summer. Is that just Karl or do others play that?
There is probably some important stuff they could teach that goes beyond gear and such, but this is a start. Anyone ever hear of this stuff?
There are several runners, even in 100 degree temps that wear fingerless gloves. Some of them claim it's due to early mornings. Other have circulation problems or worse Raynauds Disease. Raynauds affects people in North and South and normally only affects hands, feets, nose and ears ... not much else. It is brought on by "stress" and/OR cold and only 20 min. exposure for those with that disease is enough to make it happen.
Some people also just have arthritis and warmth is helpful. Other than that I agree with others who mentioned for when he falls :)
Kerosene
08-12-2008, 11:28
1) Hydropel on the feet. Some claim it allows skin to re-generate.Hydropel (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/hydropel.html) is supposed to keep the skin from deteriorating or chafing due to constant exposure to moisture. I doubt there is anything to the skin regeneration rumor.
2) Leuokotape (sic). Never heard of it on Whiteblaze. Why not? Is it any good?Leukotape (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/leukotape_p.html?id=YYw2PgDw:71.186.100.110) is a breathable, rayon-backed tape that uses a zinc oxide adhesive that stays apparently is sufficiently flexible and adhering for blister prevention. It is apparently stiffer than standard athletic tape, and adheres for days without leaving a lot of sticky residue. Here are several reviews (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/reviews/display_reviews?forum_thread_id=3819).
Thanks for those links. I Googled the tape and came up with the version to wrap knees.
Only I could muck up a Google search.
We all know that long distance runners could learn from hikers. ;-)
But what of the converse?
A few new things came to my attention since following Karl's site:
1) Hydropel on the feet. Some claim it allows skin to re-generate. Whats up with that?
2) Leuokotape. Never heard of it on Whiteblaze. Why not? Is it any good?
3) Fingerless gloves in the Summer. Is that just Karl or do others play that?
There is probably some important stuff they could teach that goes beyond gear and such, but this is a start. Anyone ever hear of this stuff?
Lots of hikers use the fingerless gloves on the PCT, particularly in the desert section, for sun burn protection
Biggest lesson? That there are many valid, varied and wonderful ways to enjoy the outdoors.
Answering only for myself...fingerless gloves give me the things I'm looking for in gloves--protection of the palms and backs of my hands--while not giving me the clumsiness problem that wearing gloves brings.
At around 45-50 degrees, I switch to full-fingered gloves for warmth.
fiddlehead
08-12-2008, 12:34
I run a lot and like to wear gloves as my hands get very cold. My body is not pushing much blood to my hands as it is not needed there, so they get cold, even when it's not so cold out (anyway that's been my opinion)
As far as needing sun protection in the East? on the AT? i don't see it.
Have never felt a need for any kind of sun protection on the AT.
I do use body glide sometimes when running (and hiking if i have a problem with chafing) but i think that's already well known in the hiking world.
Notice hikers: no poles. why? they slow you down.
Also, if you are going to do night hiking, a bright, good light is important. Especially when you are in sleep deprivation. I don't night hike much at all although will do a little sometimes to get to a favorite spot of something. But in ultra running, you have to run all night so the big light (and an extra one for each aid station ) is important.
As far as needing sun protection in the East? on the AT? i don't see it.
Have never felt a need for any kind of sun protection on the AT.
I have. I can think of at least two examples: the ridge of Race Mtn., on a 95 degree day in late June 2005; and last summer, on the southbound river crossing and road walk into Duncannon.
What's the reason for the gloves being fingerless?
I would think wearing fingerless gloves would make it easier for Karl to open things like the gel packs that he's carrying without having to take off a glove.
Tipi Walter
08-12-2008, 15:56
So far, the only thing I've learned from the Karl story is my surprise in seeing the inordinate amount of fellow hikers and backpackers on bended knee genuflecting at a speedster's altar in hero worship. Maybe someone could explain to me the fascination and obsession here displayed over a runner jogging on the AT?
Lone Wolf
08-12-2008, 16:00
So far, the only thing I've learned from the Karl story is my surprise in seeing the inordinate amount of fellow hikers and backpackers on bended knee genuflecting at a speedster's altar in hero worship. Maybe someone could explain to me the fascination and obsession here displayed over a runner jogging on the AT?
what? you jealous or somethin' cuz you're stuck behind a computer and not outdoors?
Here's a good reason to not run or jog through the woods, but each to his/her own
http://www.mssltd.com/nwtbiathlon/citizen.htm
Maybe someone could explain to me the fascination and obsession here displayed over a runner jogging on the AT?
I think folks are interested when people push the limits of human endurance. There is little more to it than that. I don't see any obsession. Just interest.
Here's a good reason to not run or jog through the woods, but each to his/her own
http://www.mssltd.com/nwtbiathlon/citizen.htm
Sad story, But I only jog on trails..I hate to run on roads.
Tipi Walter
08-12-2008, 16:28
I think folks are interested when people push the limits of human endurance. There is little more to it than that. I don't see any obsession. Just interest.
I guess it must be Olympic fever.
I guess it must be Olympic fever.
I don't think it's any different than your interest in seeing how long you can stay out without resupplying, or go without a shower. :eek: It's just a different spin. And it's all good - if you ask me.
max patch
08-12-2008, 16:43
Here's a good reason to not run or jog through the woods, but each to his/her own
http://www.mssltd.com/nwtbiathlon/citizen.htm
I run (or hike) 6 days a week and I'd rather take my chances with a bear in the woods than a car on the highway.
sun protection on your hands??????????????
maybe if you are red headed and haven't been outside in years
max patch
08-12-2008, 17:02
I've never heard of sun protection for your hands either, but apparently some people need it.
Someone said you don't need sun screen anywhere on east coast trails. Many a thru hiker who starts in GA before the leaves are out will disagree with that statement.
call me crazy, but I think 10 bucks an ounce is a little much to spend on what amounts to silicone lubricant suspended in vaseline...
max patch
08-12-2008, 17:14
I did a double take too when I saw the price per tube.
It would be worth it if it prevented someone from getting blisters. However, having said that, I've never gotten a blister from hiking and the stuff that Road Runner Sports sells -- Body Glide? -- works for me on long runs.
fiddlehead
08-12-2008, 17:31
I've never heard of sun protection for your hands either, but apparently some people need it.
Someone said you don't need sun screen anywhere on east coast trails. Many a thru hiker who starts in GA before the leaves are out will disagree with that statement.
Maybe but i doubt it. THe sun is a lot lower in the sky at that time of year. AND at your back.
And not only the leaves but all of that humidity in the east coast keeps the sun from doing the damage that you can have in the west.
One other point I'll make. Having hiked out west for 4 thru's out of 6 years plus training and running ultras out there, I was quite concerned with getting too much sun. So, i started wearing long sleeve "Powerstretch" shirts for protection on my arms.
I thought i was doing some good for myself for doing this but noticed one day that i had no tan lines between the shirt and my exposed hands. Led me to believe that polyester does not stop the suns rays and i was tan anyway. (never researched any scientific evidence on this, just giving you my experience)
Now however, i live in the tropics, ride motorcycle every day and do nothing about the sun. I know i should but nobody that lives here does except the construction workers and fisherman (who cover up everything with cotton, only their eyes and hands are visible) But most locals do their best to stay out of the sun as much as they can. (Thailand is 7 degrees or 500 miles north of the equator)
I think folks are interested when people push the limits of human endurance. There is little more to it than that. I don't see any obsession. Just interest.
Exactly. Nearly anyone can thruhike the AT -- kids have done it, blind people have done it, old people have done it, hundreds and hundreds a year of every size, shape, and age. But running the AT in 48 days? Maybe a very small number can legitimately give it a try, and many of us are impressed with their physical abilities.
Lone Wolf
08-12-2008, 20:38
But running the AT in 48 days? Maybe a very small number can legitimately give it a try, and many of us are impressed with their physical abilities.
Maineak walked it in 55 days. never ran a step. i was proud to be part of his support.
I don't see any obsession. Just interest.
I see some obsession, but not from those with an interest.
I wonder what Karl is drinking?
And is he eating gel or similar?
I powered up some of those hills in Maine with the help of powdered drink mix (straight from the pouch) but I suspect he is a bit smarter than me. :rolleyes:
hoyawolf
08-19-2008, 13:13
"sun protection on your hands??????????????"
i guess you have never spent much time in the desert or on a glacier? both have left me sun-burned on the hands as i relearned what i already knew.
I've been following Karl (aka SpeedGoat). http://hwww.whereskarl.com/.
His shin splints (caused by walking funny for over 400+ miles due to blisters on his toes) is a glaring example of how small things can so readily create a domino effect. He is on an unplanned zero-day to try to recuperate.
This effect is magnified for him due to the miles+ speed he is doing. Hopefully, it hasn't de-railed his chances of even completing his quest.
I had a similar experience on a recent 22-mile day. I did not stretch at all before starting out at the crack of dawn, and it really slowed me down as my plantar fasciitis (acute foot pain) really flared up big time. I was a hurting dog by mile 12. I missed my goal of 25 miles becasue I had to stop and stretch so often, and I ran out of daylight.
Two weeks later, I made sure to stretch very thoroughly before a 14-mile day with greater elevation-change, and I had NO problems that day, or the day after.
Any rate, it reminds me that small things that go awry must be treated aggressively. Entropy (the tendency towards dis-order or chaos) happens, and it happens easier when there is less "buffer" and more pushing the edge of the envelope.
River Runner
08-20-2008, 11:58
As far as needing sun protection in the East? on the AT? i don't see it.
Have never felt a need for any kind of sun protection on the AT.
I guess that depends on your tolerance for sunburn. I used a good bit in Georgia in April of 06, and was glad to have it.