View Full Version : Millinocket hurtin'
RadioFreq
08-19-2008, 17:53
Article in US News and World Report:
Death Watch in a Mill Town
High oil prices may be the final blow for a legendary paper plant
http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/national/2008/08/05/death-watch-in-a-mill-town.html
That town has been in a downward spiral ever since that plant decided to close, it was the life blood of that economy, and it was ripped away from them.
Kirby
Keep in mind that Millinocket and the Millinocket mill began life together. Investors built the mill a century ago -- and the town to serve the mill. Until a few years ago much of the property in town was owned by the mill. People built houses on land owned by the mill and paid rent on the land to the mill owners and taxes on the buildings to the town.
Without the mill, the town wouldn't have been built. If the mill disappears, much of the reason for the town disappears.
Weary
Keep in mind that Millinocket and the Millinocket mill began life together. Investors built the mill a century ago -- and the town to serve the mill. Until a few years ago much of the property in town was owned by the mill. People built houses on land owned by the mill and paid rent on the land to the mill owners and taxes on the buildings to the town.
Without the mill, the town wouldn't have been built. If the mill disappears, much of the reason for the town disappears.
WearyMuch of the ORIGINAL reason for the town disappears.
It is sad though, very sad.
I was up there around June 2002 and that town was in an uproar because the mill had shut down temporarily. If I had have had $200k or more I could have probably bought most of the towns housing district.....
Much of the ORIGINAL reason for the town disappears.
You're right. Thanks for the correction.
But whether it can remain other than as a retirement community, really depends on whether "ecotourism" really will draw significant numbers of people. The big draw is Baxter Park, and that has been at or near capacity for decades, so there isn't much likelihood of expansion.
The land south of the park is being managed as quasi wilderness by the Nature Conservancy. The only draw with space for growth is the two branches of the Penobscot. Both are pretty wild rivers, requiring pretty skilled canoeists and kayakers.
There's talk of some luxury resorts. But without nearby places for people to visit, I wonder if they can succeed.
Retirees are bound to come, drawn by the promise of inexpensive housing, and if it can stay alive, a pretty good small hospital.
Weary
walkin' wally
09-07-2008, 17:32
The 'death' of that mill hangs on whether the company that owns it is more interested in selling electricity than making paper. The orders for paper have been strong and profitable up to the present because of it's quality. The demand is strong because of customer loyalty. Despite what the owners say.
If they decide to install a hog fuel boiler they can go a long way towards helping Millinocket and them$elve$.
It's true Millinocket is a depressed community still trying to recover from having been a single employer town since its founding in 1901 by the lumber and paper making industry. This last attempt to close the mill indefinitely is no surprise. It will be a sad day if the mill closes.
Unlike other communities who have been hard hit by the closing of major industry, this region is surrounded by stunning natural resources, particularly the rivers, deep woods and Katahdin, the northern terminus of the Appalachian Trail. Millinocket is the gateway to this recreational playground.
A new economy is emerging in the Katahdin region. The area has a few business that are thriving on ecotourism. Our Appalachian Trail Cafe is busting at the seams most days, Katahdin Cabins gets many great reviews on Trip Advisor from happy visitors and the North light Gallery with its collection of the beautiful art of the North Maine Woods is right on the way to Baxter State Park.
It is unbelievable the number of people who come through Millinocket on the way to the Appalachian Trail; SOBO, NOBO, family and friends dropping off...picking up, those hiking the 100 miles, hopefuls who just want to see what the excitement is all about. Millinocket truly is a trail town and there is great potential for other businesses that cater to the hiking community.
We along with other members of the community have founded the Trails End Festival '”..to celebrate and honor the unique heritage of the Katahdin region and our relationship with the spectacular resources such as the great north woods and Katahdin, the northern terminus of the Appalachian Trail.”. There will be representatives here from the ATC, MATC, IAT and other non-profit groups that share an interest in this area. There will be arts/crafts vendors, local restaurants dubbed as “Local Flavah” will have food booths, local talent will perform along with other entertainers, waterfront activities, and much more. See the festival program at www.katahdinmaine.com (http://www.katahdinmaine.com/)
In the spirit of giving back to the community we have shared the story of Bob& Pat Peoples and Hard Core with the festival committee and have founded the Trails End Hard Core. The AT Lodge and Appalachian Trail will sponsor trail projects this year on the AT in BSP. The MATC and Paul Sannicandro, BSP ranger, have organized several projects that will take place during the weekend.
There is hope for Millinocket and we are excited to be a part of the transition of this community to a ecotourist destination.
Ole Man & NaviGator.
I seems to me that demand for wood pellets should create a new forest industry in the North country.
minnesotasmith
09-08-2008, 09:20
It's true Millinocket is a depressed community still trying to recover from having been a single employer town since its founding in 1901 by the lumber and paper making industry. This last attempt to close the mill indefinitely is no surprise. It will be a sad day if the mill closes.
Unlike other communities who have been hard hit by the closing of major industry, this region is surrounded by stunning natural resources, particularly the rivers, deep woods and Katahdin, the northern terminus of the Appalachian Trail. Millinocket is the gateway to this recreational playground.
A new economy is emerging in the Katahdin region. The area has a few business that are thriving on ecotourism. Our Appalachian Trail Cafe is busting at the seams most days, Katahdin Cabins gets many great reviews on Trip Advisor from happy visitors and the North light Gallery with its collection of the beautiful art of the North Maine Woods is right on the way to Baxter State Park.
It is unbelievable the number of people who come through Millinocket on the way to the Appalachian Trail; SOBO, NOBO, family and friends dropping off...picking up, those hiking the 100 miles, hopefuls who just want to see what the excitement is all about. Millinocket truly is a trail town and there is great potential for other businesses that cater to the hiking community.
Can't be from thruhikers. There just aren't enough of them. Under a thousand annual total, between NOBOs that finish plus SOBOs? Even assuming an average of 2 people to be there for NOBOs finishing or seeing SOBOs off (too high IMO), that's still under 10 people visiting and spending money in Millinocket a day. Shorter-distance hikers have to be the core of this apparent hiking-dependent economic salvation of Millinocket.
Pedaling Fool
09-08-2008, 09:49
The article focuses on higher energy costs as the mills downfall. I believe there's other factors involved, higher energy costs are probably just a crutch. Just my natural skepticism. I wonder how much paper demand is down today, as a result of computers; how much of a factor is that? Why didn't they convert to another energy source, like their sister mill? Of course they blame it on money, well that sounds like they aren't good at running a business, thus the business fails. Nothing new here.
The should have saved the ink in the little blurb about the "Social Costs".
minnesotasmith
09-08-2008, 10:02
The article focuses on higher energy costs as the mills downfall. I believe there's other factors involved, higher energy costs are probably just a crutch. Just my natural skepticism. I wonder how much paper demand is down today, as a result of computers; how much of a factor is that? Why didn't they convert to another energy source, like their sister mill? Of course they blame it on money, well that sounds like they aren't good at running a business, thus the business fails. Nothing new here.
1) Computers have actually RAISED the demand for paper, with all the printouts.
2) Please tell me how a business can on its own eliminate useless-to-bottom-line costs (that didn't exist until a generation or so ago) such as OSHA, the EPA, etc., other than by relocating outside their reach? As the demand for paper products worldwide is hardly plummeting, I'd say that's what's going on. Like our not building a single new petroleum refinery or nuclear power plant in 35+ years in the whole country... That is, within the over-regulated West, Atlas is shrugging, no question...
Pedaling Fool
09-08-2008, 10:18
1) Computers have actually RAISED the demand for paper, with all the printouts.
2) Please tell me how a business can on its own eliminate useless-to-bottom-line costs (that didn't exist until a generation or so ago) such as OSHA, the EPA, etc., other than by relocating outside their reach? As the demand for paper products worldwide is hardly plummeting, I'd say that's what's going on. Like our not building a single new petroleum refinery or nuclear power plant in 35+ years in the whole country... That is, within the over-regulated West, Atlas is shrugging, no question...
I've heard that and I'm sure computers do cause, in some cases, people to use more paper. For instance nowadays the slightest error in a report is easily fixed and reprinted. However, (I think) computers have also reduced paper in other areas (but I'll admit I'm not sure). I don't really have a need for a telephone book anymore or a newspaper, so that has an effect also.
Energy concerns are definitely a major factor, but a good business adjusts, why was the sister mill able to survive. I don't have the answers, my only point is that the article over simplified the problem.
As for the US not becoming more energy self-sufficient, I'm with you on that. Forget fission, when will we develop the world's first fusion nuclear power plant
1) Computers have actually RAISED the demand for paper, with all the printouts....
Where did you read that, or did you make it up?
minnesotasmith
09-08-2008, 13:02
Where did you read that, or did you make it up?
Here's one: http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:THh-B8v3QggJ:www.sfu.ca/~gpeters/essays/paper.pdf+computers+effect+paper+use&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&lr=lang_en
Quote:
"Abstract
In this work I examine the concept of the “paperless society” and the notion that computers replace traditional paper-based activities with electronic ones,thus reducing the amount of paper consumed by offices. Through a review of relevant paper consumption and computer usage data, I will argue that the opposite effect has occurred; that is, computer usage has actually increased paper consumption."
1) Computers have actually RAISED the demand for paper, with all the printouts.
2) Please tell me how a business can on its own eliminate useless-to-bottom-line costs (that didn't exist until a generation or so ago) such as OSHA, the EPA, etc., other than by relocating outside their reach? As the demand for paper products worldwide is hardly plummeting, I'd say that's what's going on. Like our not building a single new petroleum refinery or nuclear power plant in 35+ years in the whole country... That is, within the over-regulated West, Atlas is shrugging, no question...
MS. Your first sentence is accurate. The rest is kind of silly. Before EPA the mill dumped its wastes directly into the river. It was a biological oxygen demand the equivalent of a million untreated toilet discharges into a river only slightly larger than a mountain brook.
Without EPA the costs would continue to be borne by everyone living down stream in the stench of gross pollution.
Weary
In the news today....
Weyerhaeuser faces heavy losses as paper demand declines (http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/02/03/Weyer-060203.html)
Demand for paper is falling as consumers adopt computers...
Sure, computers can increase paper use... but they also decrease use in other ways that the paper you sited doesn't take into account. Just showing paper use rising with computer use doesn't prove anything... Gas has gone up, is this because we use more computers?
Pedaling Fool
09-08-2008, 16:51
Here's one: http://209.85.141.104/search?q=cache:THh-B8v3QggJ:www.sfu.ca/~gpeters/essays/paper.pdf+computers+effect+paper+use&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&lr=lang_en
Quote:
"Abstract
In this work I examine the concept of the “paperless society” and the notion that computers replace traditional paper-based activities with electronic ones,thus reducing the amount of paper consumed by offices. Through a review of relevant paper consumption and computer usage data, I will argue that the opposite effect has occurred; that is, computer usage has actually increased paper consumption."
That study is kind of old, it was dated 2003, but it looked at years prior to that.
Quote from the study:
"In fact, from 1997 to 2000, paper
consumption actually accelerated".
The above statement I'm sure is very accurate, in fact I bet paper demand was much higher once computers became common tools at home/schools/business. During that period many were still getting a newspaper and whatnot...And I'm sure in some areas paper use is higher because of computers; it's so easy to print out things now and you can make them look pretty and the slightest error is easily fixed and reprinted. That was not the case before computers/printers, so little mistakes or imperfections were overlooked.
Pedaling Fool
09-08-2008, 16:54
In the news today....
Weyerhaeuser faces heavy losses as paper demand declines (http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/02/03/Weyer-060203.html)
Demand for paper is falling as consumers adopt computers...
Sure, computers can increase paper use... but they also decrease use in other ways that the paper you sited doesn't take into account. Just showing paper use rising with computer use doesn't prove anything... Gas has gone up, is this because we use more computers?
Also this article is very illuminating on the subject of paper mills.
walkin' wally
09-09-2008, 17:09
On the paper demand issue the Millinocket mill made newsprint and telephone directory paper. The demand has been there until just recently when the company that owns the mill stopped taking orders and then told the media that the orders weren't there. That was found to be untrue.
There was a short lived idea to take the mill by eminent domain. The reason being because of hardships that would be felt by the local people.
The company that owns the mill is Brookfield Asset Management a power generation company. The own dams here and there. On the Kennebec River in Winslow, Maine for instance.
The mill is being run by Fraser Paper Co. Brookfield is not a paper company.
Skidsteer
09-09-2008, 18:36
I don't really have a need for a telephone book anymore or a newspaper, so that has an effect also....
Me either. How did you convince all these goofs not to throw plastic-bagged phone books and local shopping guides in your driveway when you're not looking?
Pedaling Fool
09-09-2008, 19:06
This might work, but I've never used it: https://ss82.shared.server-system.net/~paperlesspetition.org/sign.php
[QUOTE=jerseyhick;694211]In the news today....
Weyerhaeuser faces heavy losses as paper demand declines (http://www.cbc.ca/money/story/2006/02/03/Weyer-060203.html)
Demand for paper is falling as consumers adopt computers...
Sure, computers can increase paper use... but they also decrease use in other ways that the paper you sited doesn't take into account. Just showing paper use rising with computer use doesn't prove anything... Gas has gone up, is this because we use more computers?[/QUOTE
But, thanks to email and the web, I understand that post office mail is declining.
Augusta, the capital is a stinking pit with a declining population. Bangor and Old Town have been hit hard by the Old Town Mill closing. It's gonna be a tough winter in the North Country.
walkin' wally
11-13-2008, 17:44
Augusta is a stinking pit? Declining population? Since when?
The Old Town Red Shield mill has reopened.
A "tough" winter in Maine? That's why so many people move to Florida. They are all yours.
Blue Jay
11-14-2008, 12:38
I'm surprised that more people have not jumped in to dispute this due to the fact that their town, thousands of miles away, is doing just fine as if that was any reflection of what is happening around the country and world.
fiatspider2000
11-14-2008, 13:03
I visited this town and Maine for the first time this past July. I spent an extra day from travel and got supplied for the 100 mile wilderness in the town. In the short time their I saw the beauty of this town and the concerns of the economy and the mill. I was hoping that drop in oil prices would help the mill hang on. But it seems that Wall Street and the big banks will be saved but places like this may unfortunately not see a lifeline.
Popeye
The mill in Millinocket was gutted long before the rise in fuel prices.
Kept one machine on slow, I am guessing to comply with some state handout guideline. But I am cynical.
The mill in Millinocket was gutted long before the rise in fuel prices.
Kept one machine on slow, I am guessing to comply with some state handout guideline. But I am cynical.
yup, towns mill has been on its way out for 20 years at least....
transient companies buy, sell, mismanage etc... then the state steps in and throws more money into the quicksand.
Lone Wolf
11-14-2008, 13:36
i wonder if Club LaCasa in Medway is hurtin'? probably not :)
Probably not, its a sportsmans paradise the north is.:D
The naughty bar?
Probably not, but I don't know.
That place any fun?
Lone Wolf
11-14-2008, 13:55
That place any fun?
booze and babes?
I've never been in, never know, it might be scary.
aaroniguana
11-14-2008, 14:34
I'm surprised that more people have not jumped in to dispute this due to the fact that their town, thousands of miles away, is doing just fine as if that was any reflection of what is happening around the country and world.
OK I'll bite. My town, almost thousands of miles away has one industry. Real estate. We are a bedroom town of Baltimore and DC commuters. And we're failing miserably. The community I live in was built in 1947. Cute little steel-framed houses just under 1000SF. The only wood in them is the roof decking and it's rough-sawn white oak. Five years ago they were selling for $100K. Now they are listing for $250K and falling after they peaked at $300K. Not one has sold in 18 months. Our mall has been slowly dying for well over a year. Our Home Depot is rumored to be on the closing list. Non-chain restaurants are disappearing. Businesses are closing at an exponential rate. I had a discussion with a friend in Real Estate last night. We decided that when the appraised value falls to 49% of the total mortgaged it's time to walk away because it's not likely to come back. Sure it's depressing but not being native to Maryland and having no emotional ties, it doesn't hurt like Millinocket dying hurts some of you.
Things are getting tougher all over and it's only just begun.
Aren't you glad you asked?