View Full Version : Lots of Hennessy questions
azchipka
03-07-2004, 16:13
Tracey,
I may not be the best person to help on this one and you may considering ocntacting Hennesy as there are very helpful, but I will give it a shot. Also keep in mind you have about 7" of height on me so we may not have the same experiances.
1a. How does your 15F bag perform in a tent? I use a 30F bag with a sillk liner and im good till about 20F. Any chance this is related to more then just the hammock. You may want to try a microfleece bag liner, thats what i use at tempts below freezing and it works well.
1b. I would hold off on doign anything major until after trail days I have heard Hennesy is releasing a cold weather solution as a hammokc add on.
2. For the most part in my experiance the only way to really sleep in a hammock is on your back. This applies to all hammocks even the standard back yard types. If you want to try figuring out a better way i would suggest using one of the open bag yard hammocks and figuring out your movements on one of those then bringing it into a enclosed hammock.
3. In a bed i do sleep on my side and in the hammock i have adapted to sleeping on my back.
4. See answer to number 2
5. If your placing your hammock at 6' off the ground you most likely need to get longer ropes for the rain fly. In addition to that I dont tie my rain fly to the ground and i dont think many other do either. I tie off to a tree.
6. 6' sounds high for me but im only 5'5".
7. The slit doesnt "snap shut", in a snapping like sense I was noticing this at first as well but i found that if i left it alone when i layed back it did seal.
8. I would say this is a sign that your hammock is hung to tight.I also wait to get in my silk liner and sleeping bag until I am in the hammock, but once again i am only 5'5" so moving inside the hammock is most likely much easier for me then it is for you.
Tracey, have you taken a look at this site?
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Shelters/Hammocks/Hennessy%20Explorer%20Deluxe%20A-Sym/Shane%20Steinkamp/Field%20Report%20-%20Explorer%20Deluxe%20A-sym%20-%20Shane%20S/
I found it very informative when I was doing my research before I bought my HH. I hope it can help you.
Before I purchased my HH, I was looking into the tarptents and remember reading somewhere about putting some sort of silicone or something on the tarp floor to keep your pad from sliding around. I wish I could remember where I saw this. Has anyone tried this inside a hammock?
Happy Hanging
2XL
I too am a bit shorter at 5'-9" but I might have a few suggestions. Yes there is a learning curve to the Hennessey, but from the first night, I slept far better than I ever did grounded to tera firma. I've logged about 30 nights so far and didn't get settled in until about the 8th or 10th night (but I'm a slow learner ) Now take this advice with the full knowledge that I'm an Arizona boy and have no what real cold is about (nor do I wish to - anything below 60 is cold to me).
First, I use a standard "cheap" 1/2" closed cell pad 24x72 doubled to cover the tip of my head to just below my but (about 47 inches - your mileage may vary) The doubled layer comes almost up to my shoulders. Between these two layers is another closed cell piece 24x36 laid crosswise so that the 36" come up over the sides of my upper body a bit. I don't concern myself with my legs below my butt because the pressure is not enough to crust the insulate value of my sleeping bag (a relatively inexpensive Kelty 20 degree bag). Obviously I'm not an ultra-light backpacker.
I use the bag as a quilt with the zipper down. I get into the hammock in the customary way. Standing in the opening with my back to the center-upper end of the hammock. Holding the pad sandwich up to the back of my legs I sit, then pull my feet up through the slit. I then grab the pleated hammock material and pull myself up into the hammock as far as possible with out uncomfortable pinching my head and shoulders. Some of the pad sandwich slips a bit but not too much. I have the bag along my left side laid out along the length of the hammock. I tuck my toes in the foot box (which is lined with a small piece of closed cell pad 9x18") and then zip the zipper up between my legs right to my crotch as far as I can zip it. This system has taken me down to 26 degrees with the help of one of those 10 hr hand-warmers at my toes. I find that if my toes are warm the rest of me can stand a little less than optimum warmth.
Finding the sweet spot is a matter of moving your feet the left of the slit and your body & head to the right. You may not actually be horizontal, but it sure feels like it.
Usually, having recently eaten and with the slight exertion of getting in the hammock I find my self a bit overheated and have to lay a while to vent the extra heat built up. As my body returns to normal temp I then tuck the rest of the bag around my sides and shoulders ready for a cozy nights sleep.
Being so far up into the hammock allows you to roll on your side with out "that bent-leg-in-the-wrong-position" feeling, because most of your upper body is above the center point of gravity. Now the actual roll is done caterpillar style with your butt up first then upper body and finally the legs. This is a learned motion and does not come naturally to humans. My last few night out, however I manage to sleep on my back all night without any discomfort at all - this may also be a learn response to hammock sleeping.
On my back I usually like to extend one knee out as wide as the bag will allow, switching occasionally for a new position. This crushes the insulative value of the bag, so I've taken to wearing those cheap closed cell garden knee pads you find in the garden dept. of hardware stores.
On many nights, if my days water consumption has not been to much, I have slept through the night without waking at all - something that rarely happens even at home on my Seally Mattress. The midnight potty break is services by a handy canteen or gatoraide bottle. Standing in the slit, getting relief, then returning to my cacoon after tossing the bottle to the ground to be retrieved in the morning.
Hope some of this helps as you continue your exploration of comfort in your Hennessey.
Regards,
Mike Swaine
Finding the sweet spot is a matter of moving your feet the left of the slit and your body & head to the right. You may not actually be horizontal, but it sure feels like it.
I think you have this wrong. Your feet go to the right of the slit and your upper torso goes to hte left side on the hammock.
7. The slit doesn't really "snap shut." I have to grab parts of it and press the velcro together, which is going to be a problem if there's a hoard of mosquitos trying to follow me into the hammock. Is it normal to have to finish sealing the velcro yourself?
8. The velcro tears at my hair and at silk as I'm getting in and out. Also, as I lean back into the hammock and pull my legs in, the very tense sides of the slit opening rake right down along the iliotibial band (on the outside of the thigh) which is excruciatingly painful for fibromyalgia sufferers. The first time it happened it hurt so bad I cried out. That's a very specific issue that I understand I couldn't have known about before I bought the hammock, but are there any other FMers out there who have found a way around this?
7A I have the same problem with my hammock with the vlecro not sealing real well. But I just sit up in the hammock amd reseal it myself. It does seal enough not to let mosquitos in. But I like to make it seal better. It is one of my quirks. My girlfriends hammock seals with no problem at all.
8A I don't have that problem. What I do is hold the slit all the way open and pull the hammock down over me then site down. When I get out I just stick my feet through and stand up and pull the slits wide apart and lift the hammock up and over me. Maybe the reason why it is painful on your iliotibial band is becuase you may have you hammock to high off the ground. Your hammock should be set so that when sit down in it to pull your feet up through the slit you should be sitting in it as if you were sitting at you kitchen chair with your feet on the ground.
Tracy,
With an appropriate under-quilt you don't need a pad at all. In December my hiking buddy and I spent the night in sub-freezing temperatures whilr testing our new homemade 2 inch loft down under-quilts. We slept in light-weight fleece long johns with 2.5 inch loft top quilts and both slept comfortably straight through the night. It was the only time I can ever remember sleeping 8 hours straight while camping. The under-quilt is definitely the only way to go!
peter_pan
03-07-2004, 22:42
Tracyam,
Tom Hennessy put the velcro on primarily to seal the empty hammock so the nasties would not get in before you. When you are in and laying back the slit is virtually closed, but not necessarily velcroed. The adventure racer model does not have velcro since in theory it is only hung at the time of use.
You can eliminate the velcro rub/chaffe with our under quilt. It has a slit openning that attaches to Hennessy's velcro thus lining the slit with 1.1 ripstop nylon not velcro. Also if you decide to use the under-quilt as a camp vest/parka the velco on it is the new snagless stuff. This stuff is way cool. It really is kinder to you. If you chose not to go to an under-quilt you could remove the "hook and loop" that came with the HH and replace it with Velcro brand snag free hook and loop. So far we have only found this stuff in 36" package for about $4, you'll need 3 packages to completely replace the stock stuff.
Hope this helps...welcome to the wonderful world of those who "hang out". :jump
azchipka
03-08-2004, 06:52
I'm already looking at leaving my stove behind for the colder months of a thruhike in order to be able to carry more insulation gear, and I'd really rather not go all that time without any hot food!
Have you looked into using Esbit tablets instead of a stove during these times. They are small and very light. Its what I use instead of a stove because most of the time i cook on the camp fire.
Hammock Hanger
03-08-2004, 07:06
Last night was my third time out with my Hennessy Explorer Ultralite A-Sym. I'm having the usual cold weather and pad problems but I didn't think they'd be this bad, and I'm having some other problems in addition. I like the idea of the Hennessy and since a car accident a few years ago I can't sleep on the ground anymore, so I'd really like to make it work. Maybe some of you more experienced Hennessyers can help me out.
First let me say that if I had had that many problems when I first started sleeping in a hammock back some 9 years ago I doubt I would be called The Hammock Hanger now.
1a. This last test was the coldest thus far. I have a Mountainsmith Vision bag (15F), silk bag liner, Thermarest RidgeRest 3/4 pad, and a Speer down blanket on top, and I was uncomfortable at 40F (I'm a cold sleeper but not THAT cold)! Close to 32F, my toes had gone numb and I had to leave the hammock and sleep in the car.
In early April I slept in the HH Expedition with a 15 degree bag and a thermarest and did fine. In fact I felt that the 15 degree was overkill. At this point in time we were still getting snow and frost.
1b. The pad would stay under me under NO conditions. At first, when it was providing a little bit of warmth, every time it shifted cold spots developed that woke me, which was about every five minutes. Later when it wasn't helping to keep me warm I couldn't sleep at all.
I found that when using a thermrest you can not inflate it as much, more 3/4 of the way.
I'm guessing I'll have to sew a down underquilt and come up with a pad that is cut to the fit the entire length of the hammock and then secure it while it's in there. I've seen lots of underquilt ideas but does anyone have an idea for a pad that can be cut to fit the entire length and width of the hammock, and then secured in place inside the hammock somehow? What if I bought a long foam cushion insert and cut it to fit the inside of the pad, would that work, or would it be too much of a vapor barrier or smoosh down too much to provide any warmth?
I did find that the warmest way to sleep in the hammock during cold cold weather is with an underquilt. When I spoke with Tom last he was in the process of devloping something along those lines. Should be out soon. My friend uses a double wide pad that kind of wraps around her. The hard foam not squishy foam.
Has anyone tried one of those rubber grid thingies that go underneath the shower rug and tile floor in the bathroom to keep a pad in place? I wonder if putting one of those between the pad and hammock would help keep the pad in place.
I personally haven't. I do not seem to have any problem with my pad. I did read somewhere that some one had but it had problems all it's own. I read on the Wanderlust site that there is a chemical you can treat the bottom of a tent/hammock with that will decrease some of the slippage. - You could try sewing in a couple of straps with velcro on each end. Or sewing a pocket to the outside of the hammock, I did this at one point. If done I would recommend hand sewing and large spaces between the stitches. I would be afrais that too many tight stitiches would compromise the strength of the hammock. I took my pocket off cuz I didn't feel I needed the extra weight, since I don't seem to have the slipage problem.
2. Trying to move around in the hammock is a logistics nightmare. When I can figure out how to move, nothing moves with me, which is a big problem since my bag has a hood. Switching from my back to my side (or vice versa) is a major operation that requires waking up, sitting up to turn over onto my side, then trying to turn the bag around so it faces the right direction (it never moves as much as I need it to), then repositioning the pad underneath the bag, and repositioning the down blanket on top of the bag. Is there an easier way to do this?
I have heard of folks having problems moving around in the hammock. Again, I am perplexed. I lay the pad approximately where I want it to go, I sit in the entrance, take off my shoes, lean back and let the velcro come together. (Sometimes I need to straighten it out a little.) I get up to the position I want to be at. I lay my sleeping bag over me with my feet in the bottom, this is usually all I need. If I want to zip it, I roll way over to one edge, grab the bag and slide it under me, role back over, wiggle a little, zip. At this point I may need to readdress my pad position.
3. When I'm laying on my side, my shoulder feels like it's being wrapped around all the way to my chest. Is there a more comfortable way to lay on your side? Does that mean I've hung the hammock with too much tension?
I pull my hammock pretty tight and I have never had this problem, even when it was loose. I don't know if your height or weight have anything to do with this.
4. Each night I've been in it I've tried to find the "sweet spot" but I haven't found it yet, and it's so difficult to move around inside the hammock that I'm not really sure how to reposition myself well enough to find it. Can someone describe it?
I always seem to find a couple of "sweet spots". I sleep in the hammock almost the same as I do in my bed at home. I start on my back to relax, as I am getting drowsy I roll over to my side. Usually with one leg stretched out and one bent. During the middle of the night at some point I get fetal. Near the morning I am stretched out and "almost" on my stomach, like 3/4 of the way. I am only 5' 5".
5. I don't see how the rain fly is going to keep the hammock from getting wet in a rain storm. I can sew another (I have enough silnylon to do a 10 x 10 fly) but with just barely adequate sewing skills that's a dubious project. I also couldn't figure out a way to tie down the fly so that it was angled more closely to the ground, like it would be during a storm, without the fly resting against the bug screen, which results in a wet bug screen in the mornings. Any way to fix this? Anyone else have complete confidence in their Hennessy fly in an AT-worthy storm?
I have hung thru many many wicked and wild storms. I have stayed warm and dry. Only if there was a strong whipping wind did I ever feel a spray. Never enough to worry about. I use the fly provided with the HH A-sym. I simple pull it out and down at whatever angle is necessary to get a taut fly. If your fly is resting on the net you have either pulled it down too tight or to loose. I have complete confidence in my Hennessy fly, as I have weathered many AT storms!
6. I'm 6' and have to position the tree webbing at head-level (standing up) for the hammock to sit at the right height. Does that sound correct?
I have a tendency to hang my hammock high. I wrap my tree huggers almost as high as I can reach. Sometimes when I first try to get in to the hammock I have to "lift" myself in. But then it "adjust" and is at a perfect height for me to sit and have my feet touch the ground.
7. The slit doesn't really "snap shut." I have to grab parts of it and press the velcro together, which is going to be a problem if there's a hoard of mosquitos trying to follow me into the hammock. Is it normal to have to finish sealing the velcro yourself?
In the begining mine worked like a charm. Now that it has over 1000+ miles and many night of use I find I may have to help it a little. But even if I don't I have never fallen out!
8. The velcro tears at my hair and at silk as I'm getting in and out. Also, as I lean back into the hammock and pull my legs in, the very tense sides of the slit opening rake right down along the iliotibial band (on the outside of the thigh) which is excruciatingly painful for fibromyalgia sufferers. The first time it happened it hurt so bad I cried out. That's a very specific issue that I understand I couldn't have known about before I bought the hammock, but are there any other FMers out there who have found a way around this?
My friend had one specially made "without" the velcro, he seems to do jsut fine. Your body weight pretty much holds the fabric closed. And keeps the skeeters out.
I guess I'm lucky because the hammock has been a wonderful way for me to sleep out over the years. I started with a cheap net hammock from Walmart. When I got the HH I thought man this is like a palace. I bounce and rock in it sometimes when I'm getting dressed in the morning. I haven't had much problem at all with various pads, ie: thermarest, Z rest, windsheild reflector pad. Getting in and out of the sleeping bag jsut doesn't seem to be that big of a deal... I don't know if it is because I am short or what... The only true problem that I have had was extreme cold, but the underquilt has really fixed that problem.
Have you considered using Speers book to make your own hammock a length that maybe better for you? My only problem with the Speer is that I get that wrapped in a taco feel that I do not get in the HH.
Have youy thought about going to the next size up in the hammock?
Good luck, Sue/Hammock Hanger
Thanks!
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Also, I have a frameless pack (Golite Gust) and was going to use the pad to give some structure to my pack. I've usually used a small pad to give it some support even when it's not an overnight hike. I was also counting on the pad providing some cushioning between my pack and my back. If I ditch my pad, will I be in trouble on those two counts?
One item not mentioned so far that you may wish to consider: use a down filled air mattress (DAM) for the colder months. The one that I use is an Exped full length. This pad does not move around in the hammock for some reason - it is so much so that I have to place it where I want it before I get in. In a HH Explorer Delux Asym it fits well and I am able to roll off the pad before getting out - something that was a problem with the older HH I had.
If the DAM does not give enough support for your pack you may also want to consider a 40 by 20 inch piece of the blue closed cell foam type pad - put this crosswise to the DAM at the head end so as to keep your shoulders warm.
Great responses, everyone, thank you so much.
Smee: I was wondering about whether you need a pad if you use an underquilt. The Thermarest really kept me warm for at least half the night and I'm reluctant to give that up - but more importantly, I thought a pad was necessary even in the summer because the mosquitos on the east coast can bite through the hammock material (unbelieveable to this native Los Angelean but that's what I remember from my research)?
Also, I have a frameless pack (Golite Gust) and was going to use the pad to give some structure to my pack. I've usually used a small pad to give it some support even when it's not an overnight hike. I was also counting on the pad providing some cushioning between my pack and my back. If I ditch my pad, will I be in trouble on those two counts? If I could leave the pad at home that will help because I'm already looking at leaving my stove behind for the colder months of a thruhike in order to be able to carry more insulation gear, and I'd really rather not go all that time without any hot food!
We have found that you really don't need the underpad and that has always been my goal. Trying to keep a pad properly situated under you in the hammock is a royal pain in the derier. The under-quilt will keep the mosquitoes off the underside of the hammock. In terms of pack structure, here's an alternative. One of the comfort items we carry is a sit pad. It's just a cut down piece of closed cell foam about 20" x 12". I keep mine foldedd in half and tucked in an outside pocket where it's readily available for every rest stop and at lunch. You could just as easily slide it down the inside of your pack to provide a little structure to your pack and a smooth backpad. It can also be used in the hammock to provide additional insulation under your hips or along your spine and it's small enough to be fairly manageable in the hammock. I really haven't needed it though, since we completed our underquilts.
flyfisher
03-08-2004, 11:03
does anyone have an idea for a pad that can be cut to fit the entire length and width of the hammock, and then secured in place inside the hammock somehow? What if I bought a long foam cushion insert and cut it to fit the inside of the pad, would that work, or would it be too much of a vapor barrier or smoosh down too much to provide any warmth?
Tracy,
Lots of great responses above. I also loved my first night or two in a HH, but wanted to try some other ideas out too. Over the last year I have built more than a dozen different hammocks, mostly variations from the directions given by Ed Speer in his book: Hammock Camping.
Some of the things I have found may help you. E.g. I now use one of the "sticky" closed cell pads and cut it in half, top and bottom half. I overlap the two halves giving me a pad that reaches from my hips to my shoulder. The two halves are overlapped about 18 inches, so I end up with a pad almost 4 feet wide, that keeps my shoulders warm.
I got tired of the pads shifting around, so one of my Speer variations is a double bottomed hammock, made with 1.1 oz ripstop, the pad is sandwitched between the two bottoms. This way, I don't have to sleep against the pad and it stays where I want it, regardless of how much I move. (Of course, this solution requires a different hammock... something which is not all that difficult to try.)
Someone recommended using the hammock as a quilt. I find this absolutely essential to getting a good night's sleep. I even went out to build a coupe quilts that don't have zippers, because I don't like ending up laying on the zipper. Unless I can move around freely under the quilt, I too feel like moving in the hammock is like a gymnastics class.
Regarding some of your problems with the slit's velcro, I would suggest taking a look at my page on building a "test hammock" for $9. I think this is a good way to try another type of hammock without springing a paycheck. For that money, I can not build an ultralight hammock, but I can build one which allows me to demonstrate the "Speer feel". (No sewing required.)
That page is here:
http://www.imrisk.com/testhammock/testhammock.htm
I don't sleep perfectly in a hammock. However I sleep worlds better in a hammock than any other way of sleeping outdoors I have ever discovered. I'd encourage you to not giveup yet.
Footslogger
03-08-2004, 15:42
Hey Tracey,
I don't use my HH much any more, unless the weather is really pleasant. I've owed and used mine now for over 6 years. I had all the same problems you mentioned, and then some. I used the "trial and error" method to overcome most of the issues. I even called Tom Hennessey and talked through a few of the ones I just couldn't figure out myself. The one thing that did work for me in terms of my Thermarest though was to let out some of the air. I realize that you may already have tried that but I thought it was worth mentioning. I use a 3/4 ultra-light mattress and at first I blew it up as far as it would go. I would wake up in the middle of the night with the mattress laying on top of me instead of underneath me. Once I let some of the air out I had better luck. Besides, you don't really need a lot of cushion under you since the outer wall of the hammock is essentially soft already. You just need a bit of insulation.
I also used to get scraped on the legs by the velcro when getting in and out of the hammock. To solve that problem I just used my hands to separate the velcro and didn't let go until I was completely inside.
The reason I quit using the HH was that I just couldn't get comfortable on cold nights. I tried literally every suggestion available but in the end I still couldn't stay warm. By the time I had incorporated all of the cold weather adaptations that been suggested I found the hammock to be more trouble than it was worth. Having said that though ...I did have some truly comfortable nights sleeping in my HH during the Summer.
One thing I found, and this is just a personal thing, is that you can't really do much once you're in the hammock. You have to pretty much be ready to close your eyes once you crawl inside. I found that I like to spread out a bit and do some reading or journaling once I'm in my "shelter" for the night and a tent/tarp was more suited to that need.
Good luck in solving your problems and I do hope you are able to use your hammock successfully.
QUOTE from attroll on mswaine post:
I think you have this wrong. Your feet go to the right of the slit and your upper torso goes to hte left side on the hammock.
Correction duly noted. I'll have to brush up on left/right studies. Must be that dyslexia coming back.