View Full Version : 'Wild' nature play as a child breeds...
respect and healthy attitudes for the environment as an adult.
Interesting study from Cornell (http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/March06/wild.nature.play.ssl.html)suggests that children immersed in nature at a young age see the environment in a different light than those who were not.
So get the kids out early. ;)
modiyooch
08-24-2008, 08:11
I have an 18 yr old who swears he will never step foot out there again. We'll see.
fiddlehead
08-24-2008, 08:21
My 3 year old has spent more of his life outside than inside. (but he is a bit scared of the ocean yet)
Most Thai kids can say the same.
I wouldn't say that makes them respect the environment though, especially when it comes to disposing of trash.
Some readers may want to see also a related thread I started some time ago entitled Nature-Deficit Disorder (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=34454). It's in the non-AT forum which may account for why it's received so little attention.
Those who are not already subscribed should log in, click subscribe (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/profile.php?do=editusergroups) and join non-AT discussion before clicking on the thread's title.
One of the most important functions the A.T. can serve is to help introduce children to the natural world upon which our own existence depends. Unfortunately, the natural world is becoming increasingly foreign to many.
Learning to appreciate and respect it when so many are so far removed from direct contact with it is likely to become increasingly difficult. Both parents and educators will be challenged to demonstrate why and how the natural world is relevant. How well they succeed will determine what legacy they pass on to subsequent generations.
Tipi Walter
08-24-2008, 10:17
I don't see how this could be true, history seems to say otherwise. The boat-people and immigrants who "discovered" and settled this country spent an enormous amount of time outdoors, and yet look at the ecological disasters that followed. The wild western bison herd went down from 60 million to 23 in a bloodbath by the turn of the century(1900), and the natural indigenous human species prevalent in the New World(Indians)were wiped out and subject to cultural and physical genocide. All done by a people who spent a giant portion of their lives outdoors.
Does spending time outdoors as a kid bring respect and a healthy attitude for the environment? I know my father's generation(born 1921)spent a much greater amount of time outdoors than today's generation, and yet my father's generation is responsible for some of the biggest landscape destruction ever. I don't think it has anything to do with time-spent-outdoors, it has more to do with religious values, models of capitalism and a good amount of racial biases(as in: a certain self-appointed group can play god with grizzlies, bison, the landscape, air and water quality, the Indians, etc etc etc).
cowboy nichols
08-24-2008, 10:29
As long as the dollar is the goal for humans there will never be a healthy attitudetoward the Environment.
I don't see how this could be true, history seems to say otherwise.
I believe the point of the research is that positive attitudes are not likely to develop in the absence of contact with the natural world. Much of what's provided I presume in an attempt to refute this research are examples of activities which were conducted prior to the conservation movement, modern forestry and wildlife management which have led to the gains we all enjoy today.
Obviously, the kinds of experiences children have and the values held by the adults in their lives are of no small consequence.
As long as the dollar is the goal for humans there will never be a healthy attitude toward the Environment.
I'm not convinced the prevailing overall attitude today toward the environment is unhealthy. Also, attitudes vary widely from place to place and from one individual to another based upon one's experiences.
Often what's good for the pocketbook is good for the environment when one takes a long-term, multi-generational view.
My position is it's less likely people will develop healthy attitudes the farther their lives are removed from the kinds of early life experiences which seem to lead to healthy attitudes. It's important to understand when in the life of a young person these experiences occur.
I thought this quote from the OP's link was interesting:
Interestingly, participating in scouts or other forms of environmental education programs had no effect on adult attitudes toward the environment.
"Participating in nature-related activities that are mandatory evidently do not have the same effects as free play in nature, which don't have demands or distractions posed by others and may be particularly critical in influencing long-term environmentalism," Wells said.
Are a lack of such early life experiences apt to lead to lower enrollment in scouting and are we seeing that already?
Analogman
08-24-2008, 11:55
Not at all surprising. What a child learns at an early age is often what sticks with them for life. Teach a child to enjoy and respect the outdoors and they will be far more likely to take care of the wilderness.
4eyedbuzzard
08-24-2008, 12:14
I exposed all four of my children to camping and hiking for many years during their childhood - they are now all older teens/adults. Only one really likes to hike now - she and I get out a few times every year together. Two of the others enjoy an occaisional day hike, but not any real hiking as most here would classify it. All still enjoy "camping out", and are very conscientious about camp etiquette, environmental respect, etc, but the hiking part they just aren't interested in. They just never caught the bug.
You can lead a horse to water...
I exposed all four of my children to camping and hiking for many years during their childhood - they are now all older teens/adults. Only one really likes to hike now - she and I get out a few times every year together. Two of the others enjoy an occaisional day hike, but not any real hiking as most here would classify it. All still enjoy "camping out", and are very conscientious about camp etiquette, environmental respect, etc, but the hiking part they just aren't interested in. They just never caught the bug.
You can lead a horse to water...
Studies show they will probably come back to it later in life.
From the 1st sentence in the article:
If you want your children to grow up to actively care about the environment, give them plenty of time to play in the "wild" before they're 11 years old, suggests a new Cornell University study.
I think the key word here is "play"
Some forms of outdoor recreation can be more like work for young children, take hiking for example. I remember how hard it was as a young boy to try keeping up with my dad while hiking Maine mountains. It was more like work, not play for this 10 year old the time I first climbed Katahdin.
Needless to say, these strenuous hikes as a youngster left a bad taste in my mouth for some time until reaching adulthood.
I think the researcher in the link was trying to say it should be fun for the youngsters.
Camping with some hiking involved would give a youngster more time to 'play' and enjoy exploring the immediate surroundings without finding it exhausting and not fun.
Just my interpretation of the article.
Thanks for your comments.
Some forms of outdoor recreation can be more like work for young children, take hiking for example. I remember how hard it was as a young boy to try keeping up with my dad while hiking Maine mountains. It was more like work, not play for this 10 year old the time I first climbed Katahdin.
Needless to say, these strenuous hikes as a youngster left a bad taste in my mouth for some time until reaching adulthood.
We should all be greatful the call of the wilds of Maine is strong!
:-?Maybe it's best to wait until a child's older for some kinds of activities? That said, it's reasonable to believe children differ from one another too even though maybe not as much as adults.
I don't see how this could be true, history seems to say otherwise. The boat-people and immigrants who "discovered" and settled this country spent an enormous amount of time outdoors, and yet look at the ecological disasters that followed. The wild western bison herd went down from 60 million to 23 in a bloodbath by the turn of the century(1900), and the natural indigenous human species prevalent in the New World(Indians)were wiped out and subject to cultural and physical genocide. All done by a people who spent a giant portion of their lives outdoors.
Does spending time outdoors as a kid bring respect and a healthy attitude for the environment? I know my father's generation(born 1921)spent a much greater amount of time outdoors than today's generation, and yet my father's generation is responsible for some of the biggest landscape destruction ever. I don't think it has anything to do with time-spent-outdoors, it has more to do with religious values, models of capitalism and a good amount of racial biases(as in: a certain self-appointed group can play god with grizzlies, bison, the landscape, air and water quality, the Indians, etc etc etc).
How many native species were wiped out by the "Indians" after they arrived?
modiyooch
08-24-2008, 15:13
Are a lack of such early life experiences apt to lead to lower enrollment in scouting and are we seeing that already? In our home, we didn't enroll them in scouting because we were already doing those activities. Selfish maybe, but I rather just spend time and experiences with my children instead of a group.
How many native species were wiped out by the "Indians" after they arrived?
I'd guess less than since everyone else showed up, but they had longer to work at it with less sophisticated tools. We have more weapons of destruction, people to wield them and time to devote to the task since we live longer and expend less time on other activities such as feeding ourselves and keeping warm.
It might be said we know more about other species, especially the larger, better-studied species and are in a better positon to mitigate our activities which impact negatively upon the environment than ever before.
I'd guess less than since everyone else showed up, but they had longer to work at it with less sophisticated tools. We have more weapons of destruction, people to wield them and time to devote to the task since we live longer and expend less time on other activities such as feeding ourselves and keeping warm.
It might be said we know more about other species, especially the larger, better-studied species and are in a better positon to mitigate our activities which impact negatively upon the environment than ever before.
Actually the largest mass extiction of North American mega-fauna happened to coincide with the arrival of the first PaleoIndians. Whether they or climate change caused it, no one really knows.
My 6 y.o. sons are joining the Cub Scouts in a few weeks, but that will be a small part of their outdoor experience.
As a former scoutmaster I know that many scouts don't get out as much as they would like because of the reluctance of the adult leadership.
From the 1st sentence in the article:
I think the key word here is "play"
Some forms of outdoor recreation can be more like work for young children, take hiking for example. I remember how hard it was as a young boy to try keeping up with my dad while hiking Maine mountains. It was more like work, not play for this 10 year old the time I first climbed Katahdin.
Needless to say, these strenuous hikes as a youngster left a bad taste in my mouth for some time until reaching adulthood.
I think the researcher in the link was trying to say it should be fun for the youngsters.
Camping with some hiking involved would give a youngster more time to 'play' and enjoy exploring the immediate surroundings without finding it exhausting and not fun.
Just my interpretation of the article.
Thanks for your comments.
You got it right. Worth repeating.
Along a similar line as the original post/link, the EPA's New England office has just granted money to some schools to help educate youngsters(K-5) and their families in the area of Environmental issues we are faced with today.
Shades of Gray and I have both spent time in different capacities at the Good-Will Hinckley School in central Maine.
Good Will-Hinckley, which received the grant, will use the funds to teach children in kindergarten through fifth grade and their families about Maine's natural habitats, wildlife diversity and environmental stewardship, said EPA spokeswoman Kristen Conroy.
Article: Good-Will Hinckley School EPA Grant (http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/5334403.html)
Hopefully the program will be well attended and successful so more grants will be awarded in the future.
Tipi Walter
08-25-2008, 10:12
How many native species were wiped out by the "Indians" after they arrived?
While the Indians might have wiped out the woolly mammoths(or was it due to climate change?), they sure had enough mega-fauna bison left when the immigrants arrived.
In the 20,000 years of occupying this land, the Indians before slaughter left a stable total population of around 15 million and a landscape full of trees(a squirrel could travel from the coast of NC all the way to the Mississippi and not touch the ground). In the 500 years since European arrival, the population has exploded to 330 million(projected 440 million by 2040), and the air/water quality and landscape has been drastically altered.
Can we as a people and a culture make it another 19,500 years and leave it like it was in 1492? It seems we can't even pull a couple hundred years without leaving a mess. It's not what kind of nature-education a kid gets today, it's all about what kind of nature will be available to his kids and their kids, the so-called 7th generation.
Wisdom is seeing the long term consequences of our actions. I'd rather teach my son about the ecological mistakes we're making than show him a few acres of what's left.
....Can we as a people and a culture make it another 19,500 years and leave it like it was in 1492? It seems we can't even pull a couple hundred years without leaving a mess. It's not what kind of nature-education a kid gets today, it's all about what kind of nature will be available to his kids and their kids, the so-called 7th generation.
Wisdom is seeing the long term consequences of our actions. I'd rather teach my son about the ecological mistakes we're making than show him a few acres of what's left.
The research suggests that the best way to get your son to see the long term consequences of our action, is to show him the few acres of what's left.
Weary
4eyedbuzzard
08-25-2008, 14:16
While the Indians might have wiped out the woolly mammoths(or was it due to climate change?), they sure had enough mega-fauna bison left when the immigrants arrived.
In the 20,000 years of occupying this land, the Indians before slaughter left a stable total population of around 15 million and a landscape full of trees(a squirrel could travel from the coast of NC all the way to the Mississippi and not touch the ground). In the 500 years since European arrival, the population has exploded to 330 million(projected 440 million by 2040), and the air/water quality and landscape has been drastically altered.
But (as I'm sure/hope you realize) the old growth forest of the east would eventually become a bog due to the natural forest cycle anyway. And given their state of technology, even the Indians had their own degree of negative impact on both the land and fellow humans. We humans, including our exploitation and impact are no less part of nature simply because we manipulate it more technologically than other species. I don't dismiss the negative impact of our culture, but neither can I offhand dismiss the positive aspects either. I would have died earlier this month save for something called modern antibiotics, so there is a bit of personal survival bias here. Were we as a species "better off" leaving more "purely" - more primitively and closer to the land? We'll likely never know. This is the only world we'll ever know, and a return to a more primitive state is highly unlikely.
Can we as a people and a culture make it another 19,500 years and leave it like it was in 1492?
1492 is done and gone. There is ONLY the present and future. The possibilities for the future can go in many directions, from us flourishing including being better stewards of the planet, to that of extinction. Time will tell, but you and I shall never know. We can only do our best to influence the next generation.
It seems we can't even pull a couple hundred years without leaving a mess. It's not what kind of nature-education a kid gets today, it's all about what kind of nature will be available to his kids and their kids, the so-called 7th generation.
I don't think this planet is beyond repair - ruined. There are difficult issues to address and problems to be solved. And no, it will never be a pristine wilderness as it once was as long as we are here, barring some catastropic extinction level event. We are only a few generations into being a technological species, and yes we have made many mistakes. But we are at a point where we have now largely realized many of those mistakes and there is a worldview emerging that is concerned and trying to correct those problems. No, it won't happen overnight, but I remain optimistic that we as a species can right the ship, survive our own mistakes, and learn to live as "wiser" beings.
Wisdom is seeing the long term consequences of our actions. I'd rather teach my son about the ecological mistakes we're making than show him a few acres of what's left.
I kind of favor the balanced approach of showing them as much as possible, including both the best and worst of what we have done. They need to understand how big the picture is - it's incrediby complex. None of us will likely grasp the entire scope, but together we can try.
I always enjoyed this quote from Joseph Meeker on wisdom - perhaps you've read it before (I know you are an avid reader):
“Wisdom is a state of the human mind characterized by profound understanding and deep insight. It is often, but not necessarily, accompanied by extensive formal knowledge. Unschooled people can acquire wisdom, and wise people can be found among carpenters, fishermen, or housewives. Wherever it exists, wisdom shows itself as a perception of the relativity and relationships among things. It is an awareness of wholeness that does not lose sight of particularity or concreteness, or of the intricacies of interrelationships. It is where left and right brain come together in a union of logic and poetry and sensation, and where self-awareness is no longer at odds with awareness of the otherness of the world. Wisdom cannot be confined to a specialized field, nor is it an academic discipline; it is the consciousness of wholeness and integrity that transcends both. Wisdom is complexity understood and relationships accepted.”
But (as I'm sure/hope you realize) the old growth forest of the east would eventually become a bog due to the natural forest cycle anyway.
Huh? I never learned this in forestry college... :confused:
We should all be greatful the call of the wilds of Maine is strong!
Yes, I certainly am, the wilds have been my salvation since returning to it about the age of 30.
Needless to say, these strenuous hikes as a youngster left a bad taste in my mouth for some time until reaching adulthood.
Studies show they will probably come back to it later in life.
Bingo :sun
I don't dismiss the negative impact of our culture, but neither can I offhand dismiss the positive aspects either. I would have died earlier this month save for something called modern antibiotics, so there is a bit of personal survival bias here.
It's the same with white people. They cleared the forest, they dug up the land,
and they gave us the flu. But they also brought power tools and penicillin
and Ben and Jerry's ice cream.
–Marilyn Whirlwind, NORTHERN EXPOSURE
:)
Studies show they will probably come back to it later in life.
The hike I did on Mt. Lafayette as 12 yrs old is (for better or worse) responsible for my love the outdoors now.
Never did forget that day.
Shades of Gray and I have both spent time in different capacities at the Good-Will Hinckley School in central Maine.
Article: Good-Will Hinckley School EPA Grant (http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/news/local/5334403.html)
Hopefully the program will be well attended and successful so more grants will be awarded in the future.
Thank you for calling the article to my attention. It pleases me to hear GWH was selected for this EPA grant. As you know, I think in so many ways the students there are blessed.
I look forward to visiting and hiking on their trail system again, seeing what has changed and meeting some of the students and staff.
I also took this to be "play." Like looking under rocks. Or building a fort.
All dads should read Woodsy's post. I thought I was the only one, and I see several cases of this each summer. I have always held my tounge, but I see behind the flustered look on the kid's face.
By the time I would walk in the woods with my Father, he was worn out. Sad.
MyName1sMud
09-10-2008, 12:00
respect and healthy attitudes for the environment as an adult.
Interesting study from Cornell (http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/March06/wild.nature.play.ssl.html)suggests that children immersed in nature at a young age see the environment in a different light than those who were not.
So get the kids out early. ;)
Sounds good! I was put in the woods at a VERY young age..... Then again I am in Mississippi and my closest neighbor was about a half mile through the woods away
Alligator
09-10-2008, 13:04
Sounds good! I was put in the woods at a VERY young age..... Then again I am in Mississippi and my closest neighbor was about a half mile through the woods awayMe too. My dad was always dropping me off in the woods. I had to keep little white rocks in my pockets at all times just to make it back:eek:.
Gray Blazer
09-10-2008, 13:16
Me too. My dad was always dropping me off in the woods. I had to keep little white rocks in my pockets at all times just to make it back:eek:.
Good to see I'm not the only silly one on WB.;)
My Dad took my brother and I out on camping trips all the time. We used to do water trips in FL , also, sleeping in the boat at night (going from the chain of lakes around Orlando on to the Ochlawaha and St. Johns to Jax and back).
I took my 7 yr old Foster son and my 25 yr old son on a 26 mile hike from Sam's Gap to Erwin last summer (first time he's been out of FL (the 7 yr old)) and he did very well. I know he'll always remember it, especially when the remnants of Bertha hit us about 3 in the morning on Big Bald.
Governor's Conference on Youth and the Natural World (http://take-it-outside.com/media.html), Augusta, Oct. 2, 2008.
Click on the link above for alarming information about today's youth and a simple solution.
... and a simple solution.
Where's the simple solution? :confused:
Where's the simple solution? :confused:
I believe what's being suggested is to Take It Outside (http://www.take-it-outside.org/). Maybe you didn't get to the bottom and click on the link.
The other day I went to the YWCA after work. I happened to be in a room across the hall from the afterschool program. It was almost 6 pm and the kids were going crazy. They kept breaking out of the room and chasing each other up and down the hall. The teacher was going crazy, trying to impose order. Most of the kids I saw were overweight.
I thought to myself--you've got a room full of kids who have been supposed to be sitting quietly for the last 12 hours. They're at the freaking Y, which has a pool and a gym and an outdoor track and a playground and every kind of exercise equipment you can name. What's wrong with this picture? Why aren't they shooting baskets or hitting a baseball or chasing each other around on the grass?
Spending day after day indoors being quiet...when I was in fourth and fifth and sixth grade that would have been my idea of hell.
Come to think of it, I'm still not that fond of it.
Governor's Conference on Youth and the Natural World (http://take-it-outside.com/media.html), Augusta, Oct. 2, 2008.
Click on the link above for alarming information about today's youth and a simple solution.
thanks for posting that upcoming conference article, helps put the child nature disconnect issue into perspective and what some people are trying to do to reverse it.