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beerandpizza
08-28-2008, 14:59
The wife and I just got a couple of 30 degree (800 fill) down bags for our early april start. Do you guys think this will be warm enough? we plan on supplementing with clothes (jammies)
:-?

rafe
08-28-2008, 15:08
Yes, though you'll likely have one or two cold nights in the first few weeks.

Roots
08-28-2008, 16:22
I started at Springer this year (sectioning) on April 1st. I used a 25 degree Montbell down bag. There were a few nights I had to add the liner because it was well below 20. April 12-13th there was snow up on Albert and Wayah. VERY COLD! Out of the month there were probably 1/4 of it I was thanking God I had my 25 degree with liner.

turtle fast
08-28-2008, 17:12
We started our thru April 9th this year and a 30 degree bag is plenty in Georgia. We used silk liners which added another 10 degrees, and they were both light and kept the bag clean as showers are not too frequent. Keep them when you get to the Smokeys...you will need them as it gets cold at night....we had camel backs freeze up.

Jim Adams
08-28-2008, 17:25
IMO, NO!
Most people start with a 20*, I start with a very light 0* for hiking the first week of march. You cannot predict what the temps will be like. In the odd year, you may be able to get away with 45* and jammies but I have yet to see that year. I have been in Georgia 3 times now in March that I would have been cold in my 20*. The Smokies can be colder and if I remember correctly, alot of people sent there cold bags home at Trail Days in 2002 only to be hit with below freezing temps for the next week in the Highlands. In 2004 there was an ice storm and snow in the Highlands the week after Trail Days and most with their light gear had to run to town and wait it out.
IMO a 30* bag is fine from Atkins and north until N.H....I would go lower both south of Atkins and north of Hanover.

geek

Scorpion
08-28-2008, 21:52
In 2004 I started March 10th with a 30 degree Western Mountaineering bag. There were some cold nights, but my 30 bag was sufficient. I just slept in some clothes on the cold nights.

I think that starting in April a 30 bag would be fine. But then again all 30 bags aren't the same. Some ratings are much more conservative than others.

Good luck whatever you use.

Scorpion
GA Me 04

BookBurner
08-28-2008, 22:29
In a normal year, presuming you sleep at a normal body temp, you're going to have some really cold nights for a few weeks. Of course, you'll make a 30 degree bag work, but be prepared to sleep in something more than "jammies", i.e. every piece of dry clothing you own. During the first two weeks of April '07, the temps were well into the teens for much of Ga. and NC through the Smokies. Unusual, but clearly, not impossible.

bigcranky
08-29-2008, 07:52
It can work. I would recommend a few things beyond "jammies:"

1. A puffy insulated jacket, down or synthetic. Layer this over your torso at night, and of course wear it around camp and on breaks.

2. Dry thick wool sleeping socks. Keep them dry. Keep them dry.

3. A fleece balaclava. Keeping your head and neck warm makes a hug difference in sleeping comfort.

4. A closed-cell foam sit pad. Useful as a sit pad, of course -- keeps your bum dry and warm. But it's also very useful when you stick it inside your sleeping bag, down at the foot end, as it adds a surprising amount of insulation under your feet.

Note that all of these things except the socks are multi-use.

Bare Bear
08-29-2008, 23:17
Your personal comfort leval is your decision. Are you a 'cold' sleeper? Are you using a thermorest too? I used a Full size Thermorest and a 15F mummy bag and still froze a few times.
Weight is everything and everything has weight. You carry it so you get to decide what you can live without.

beerandpizza
09-04-2008, 22:00
we have a BA insulated air core, thermals, smartwool sox, primaloft coat for me and a down for the wifey (found great deals). Am hoping this will get us. Plus we will be able to test it this winter to that will be the tell all. Thanks all for your input!!

FatMan
09-04-2008, 22:26
April weather in these parts is all over the place. You can be hiking one day in 75-80 degree weather and then a couple of nights later you can find it in the low teens. Of course you can live through it in a 30 degree bag but you will be very uncomfortable.

wrongway_08
09-05-2008, 00:50
I started March 1st with a 20 degree mont-bell bag this year and was PLENTY warm.
Dont forget, if you get cold, just add that base layer you are carry'n around and things will warm up.



I am about to start the 100 miles in 2 days (sept 6th) and have been using my 40 degree mont-bell for a few days now with no warmth problems, dont even need my base layers on.

beerandpizza
09-05-2008, 09:32
I started March 1st with a 20 degree mont-bell bag this year and was PLENTY warm.
Dont forget, if you get cold, just add that base layer you are carry'n around and things will warm up.



I am about to start the 100 miles in 2 days (sept 6th) and have been using my 40 degree mont-bell for a few days now with no warmth problems, dont even need my base layers on.

this is good to know. we got the down hugger ss #3. we figured with all our clothes we should be fine. we plan to bring a tent also so that should knock off a lot of wind chill.

dessertrat
09-05-2008, 09:42
A down jacket will solve any shortfall, I think, and should be on your list for starting out anyway.

beerandpizza
09-05-2008, 09:48
A down jacket will solve any shortfall, I think, and should be on your list for starting out anyway.

the wife found a down jacket and I found a north face redpoint which uses primaloft. both were 50% off msrp

Appalachian Tater
09-05-2008, 15:32
You should be safe although there is a small possibility that you are not absolutely comfortable if there is extreme cold.

Blissful
09-05-2008, 20:43
You'll be cold, esp the wife. I wouldn't take 30 degree and above until mid may. There was snow in May in VA near Mt Rogers this past year. And in early April on our hike it got down to the teens.

Just this summer in July, it was 38 degrees in the Dolly Sods of West VA.

stranger
09-06-2008, 22:43
I would strongly discourage leaving Springer in early April with 30 degree bags. I left Springer this year on 9 April with a 20 degree Western Mountaineering Bag and was chilly on a number of nights, and i was lucky enough to be in town for most of the cold snaps. Obviously if you plan on sleeping in a tent this will help greatly, but not so much with a breezy single wall, tarp or hammock.

Supplementing your bag by wearing clothing doesn't really help any and this is a common misconception amongst hikers including myself in the past. It's best to wear minimal clothing in your bag so you can heat up the air trapped inside your sleeping bag, then your bag will hold that air which is what keeps you warm.

By wearing additional clothing, you minimize the amount of heat your body gives off cause you are trapping the air against your body. As a result the interior of the sleeping bag doesn't heat up as much, and you are colder as a result.

The day we left Gatlinburg we arrived at Newfound Gap around 11am, the sun had been up for hours, and the actual air temperature was 26 degrees, this doesn't account for wind chill, and this was the very end of April. By contrast, my first night on the trail at Gooch Gap in GA, I slept on top of my sleeping bag cause I was hot, crazy stuff!

Frosty
09-06-2008, 23:03
Supplementing your bag by wearing clothing doesn't really help any and this is a common misconception amongst hikers including myself in the past. It's best to wear minimal clothing in your bag so you can heat up the air trapped inside your sleeping bag, then your bag will hold that air which is what keeps you warm. Sorry, but this is nonsense. As long as the extra clothing you wear does not cause the bag to fit tightly (and thus lose loft) you will lose less heat from your body with a layer of clothing than otherwise.

You will also be warmer wearing plypro under a down jacket than you would be shirtless under a down jacket.

workboot
09-06-2008, 23:20
Sorry, but this is nonsense. As long as the extra clothing you wear does not cause the bag to fit tightly (and thus lose loft) you will lose less heat from your body with a layer of clothing than otherwise.

You will also be warmer wearing plypro under a down jacket than you would be shirtless under a down jacket.


I concur, a base layer is an effective source of heat retention and very few base layers will actually be bulky enough to to cause a properly fitted sleeping bag to not loft effectively and trap enough air space in direct relation to compromising heat loss gained by wearing the base layer itself.YMMV

weary
09-07-2008, 01:11
A down jacket will solve any shortfall, I think, and should be on your list for starting out anyway.
I started with a 45 degree, down sleeping bag liner, on April 15, augmented with a down jacket and an ancient pair of insulated long underpants. I never sweated at night. But neither do I remember being seriously uncomfortable.

Weary

weary
09-07-2008, 01:16
I would strongly discourage leaving Springer in early April with 30 degree bags. I left Springer this year on 9 April with a 20 degree Western Mountaineering Bag and was chilly on a number of nights, and i was lucky enough to be in town for most of the cold snaps. Obviously if you plan on sleeping in a tent this will help greatly, but not so much with a breezy single wall, tarp or hammock.

Supplementing your bag by wearing clothing doesn't really help any and this is a common misconception amongst hikers including myself in the past. It's best to wear minimal clothing in your bag so you can heat up the air trapped inside your sleeping bag, then your bag will hold that air which is what keeps you warm.

By wearing additional clothing, you minimize the amount of heat your body gives off cause you are trapping the air against your body. As a result the interior of the sleeping bag doesn't heat up as much, and you are colder as a result.

The day we left Gatlinburg we arrived at Newfound Gap around 11am, the sun had been up for hours, and the actual air temperature was 26 degrees, this doesn't account for wind chill, and this was the very end of April. By contrast, my first night on the trail at Gooch Gap in GA, I slept on top of my sleeping bag cause I was hot, crazy stuff!
I think you have been reading Colin Fletcher lately. He was a great writer and hiking enthusiast, but like Bill Bryson had a few nutty ideas.

Weary

stranger
09-08-2008, 21:08
Well perhaps I should have said this is my personal experience, and I've known it to be true from many hikers I've met over the years as well. I sleep warmer in lightweight thermals in my bag than I do wearing a down jacket, that's a fact.

Obviously, everyone is quite different when it comes to sleeping, some people sleep warm, some cold, and of course things like ground insulation, gender, insulating your head, tents, tarps, food intake, circulation, all factor into whether or not you will be OK on a cold night. And in many cases the rating of a sleeping bag might not be all that relevant depending on the person. For example a friend of mine commonly uses a zero degree bag in extreme cold (-25) with a VBL and he sleeps fine, however I susupect most people would have one hell of a night in that situation.

I believe the person asked for others opinions and that's what I gave.

bobbyw
03-08-2009, 13:26
150% of the time people with 20 or 15 or 0 degree bags are going to say "You'll ****ing die" if you take a 30 bag.

The people who TOOK 30 bags are going to say you'll be fine.

Who do you listen to?

buz
03-08-2009, 15:19
Only way I know how to figure out is to "test sleep" at known temps with your sleeping equipment to figure out comfort range. Everyone is so different sleeping temp wise, very hard to generalize. My generalization is i never want to be cold, lol, so I pack accordingly. Hot is good at night because it can be remedied easily. Cold not so simple to fix.

beerandpizza
03-10-2009, 20:09
Only way I know how to figure out is to "test sleep" at known temps with your sleeping equipment to figure out comfort range. Everyone is so different sleeping temp wise, very hard to generalize. My generalization is i never want to be cold, lol, so I pack accordingly. Hot is good at night because it can be remedied easily. Cold not so simple to fix.

did that this winter. we camped out in 15 degree weather and was quite toasty. we had our tent with rainfly on and all our clothes on that we are going to take. i had to shed all clothing by the end of the night. :banana
so, it works for us...don't know about anybody else tho

bigcranky
03-14-2009, 12:31
I've taken my 30-F bag on my last two March section hikes, and I've been fine. I have the advantage of knowing the weather (mostly) for the week, and I can choose the right bag at the last minute. Thru-hikers can't do that, of course. And there will be some cold weather in April. Still, if I were starting a thru in early April I would most likely go with my 30 over my 0 bag, supplemented with additional clothing.

BTW I sleep much warmer wearing my down jacket inside my bag than with just base layers.

ATWillow
03-14-2009, 12:41
On my 1997 thruhike I froze in April in my 20 bag. For my 2009 thruhike (04/06 start date) I bought 0 degree Western Mountaineering bag remembering my sleepless nights on some of those early days. It is a workout to get in in a compression sack but I know I will love it on those cold nights. I don't consider this overkill for me.

Willow

Hiker Chris
03-24-2009, 13:30
I am leaving April 24th with an SS down hugger #3 30 degree bag, and I don't expect much problems, what do you guys think?

weary
03-25-2009, 09:51
It can work. I would recommend a few things beyond "jammies:"

1. A puffy insulated jacket, down or synthetic. Layer this over your torso at night, and of course wear it around camp and on breaks.

2. Dry thick wool sleeping socks. Keep them dry. Keep them dry.

3. A fleece balaclava. Keeping your head and neck warm makes a hug difference in sleeping comfort.

4. A closed-cell foam sit pad. Useful as a sit pad, of course -- keeps your bum dry and warm. But it's also very useful when you stick it inside your sleeping bag, down at the foot end, as it adds a surprising amount of insulation under your feet.

Note that all of these things except the socks are multi-use.
Bigcranky offers sound advice. I started in mid April with a North Face down, sleeping bag liner I had used for 20 years. (40 years now) With a down jacket and insulated pants I was warm and comfortable. The key is multi use gear.

Weary