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Bearpaw88
08-29-2008, 17:42
If you do apparently you have to hike the A.T.

Here's the story:

While doing some trail work this year I overheard a maintainer say to his friend, "If you ever want to be sucessful do not hike the A.T. I had a friend that did it. He was a lawyer now he is some broke river guide in Colarado. It does something to your brain."

After laughing hysterically I started thinking, hey well I do know many broke "unsucessful" river guides who have hiked the A.T. I have also met several doctors, laweyer, and other professionals on the trail.

So what do you think? Does hiking the A.T. doom you to a life of a broke river guide?

Does it do something to our brains :D

MOWGLI
08-29-2008, 17:44
It certainly rearranged my priorities, and changed my relationship with money. So yeah, I think it does do something to our brains.

Tennessee Viking
08-29-2008, 17:52
Well if you work retail, it will also change your view on money. Then again it might be gas prices.

The only materialistic wants I have in life are hiking gear. I stopped playing video games, I buy $5 T-shirts, buy more store brand foods.

I have run across a number of hikers that have just up and sold everything in their name (car, home, possessions) just to hike the AT.

Nicksaari
08-29-2008, 18:10
in hiking my first nonconsecutive ten or so miles through a variation of terrain, i realized that all i wanted to do was quit my job, walk away from society, and play in the forest. build a hand-hewed cabin, maintain a veg garden, chicken, goats, establish sanitation, etc. grow some crops, me and the dog. and never come back.

papa john
08-29-2008, 18:34
To me, going from lawyer to river guide is a step in the right direction...

bigben
08-29-2008, 19:25
in hiking my first nonconsecutive ten or so miles through a variation of terrain, i realized that all i wanted to do was quit my job, walk away from society, and play in the forest. build a hand-hewed cabin, maintain a veg garden, chicken, goats, establish sanitation, etc. grow some crops, me and the dog. and never come back.

You are not alone. I fanticize and dream about stuff like that all the time. For years I lamented the fact that I squandered my one good opportunity to thru-hike back in the mid 1990's after graduating from college. But now that I'm 36, I don't get so bummed out about the fact that I won't be able to do a thru until I retire in 2028 because right now I'm married, with 2 awesome kids, a great house, 2 excellent incomes, working a job I mostly love. Basically the generic "American Dream." Who's to say that if I DID a thru hike back then when I was single, young and free that I wouldn't have just said screw it all and moved to Alaska or just became a trail bum? Not that those things would be bad or wrong, but there's a good chance that I wouldn't have the fulfilling life that I have now. Things happen(or don't happen) for a reason. It makes me appreciate my annual section hikes that much more.

BookBurner
08-29-2008, 19:35
My 2002 thru changed my perspective totally. Signed - Broke in Colorado (former Ga. lawyer)

Blissful
08-29-2008, 19:47
So what do you think? Does hiking the A.T. doom you to a life of a broke river guide?

Does it do something to our brains :D


Not me. I'm not a river person. he he :)

bikerscars
08-29-2008, 19:54
long hikes clear the head and help many realize what is important to them in this life

MOWGLI
08-29-2008, 20:09
My 2002 thru changed my perspective totally. Signed - Broke in Colorado (former Ga. lawyer)

Did you move to Colorado?

muppet
08-29-2008, 20:38
one of my oldest and best friends is a river guide for the NOC. 27 year old male living in the woods and taking tourists and gapers down rapids after a case of beer and 3 hours of sleep.

what's wrong with that?

i'm staying at NOC cabins and let the crew flip me around in the 40-degree water for a couple days in april. should be a nice break.

fiddlehead
08-29-2008, 20:59
Life is Priorities.
If yours is to make all the money you possibley can in your lifetime, definitely don't hike the AT.

mtnkngxt
08-29-2008, 21:14
I can only hope to be that cool after my thrus.

BookBurner
08-29-2008, 22:26
Yep - Living in southern Colorado, pounding nails part-time, and trying the rest of the time to come up with some way to make a living in the backpacking world. In fact, tomorrow I'm heading out for two weeks on the CDT for a strategic planning session!

Pokey2006
08-29-2008, 22:36
Well, I just clicked on this thread hoping it contained a job listing....so I guess that answers that question.

bikerscars
08-29-2008, 22:58
Well, I just clicked on this thread hoping it contained a job listing....so I guess that answers that question.


:D

i thought the same

trouthunter
08-29-2008, 23:11
The money is in retail, the truth is ON the trail.

I've done both.

Bare Bear
08-29-2008, 23:42
Ask Steve Longley. I am looking forward to seeing the changes to his place in Caratunk now that he gave up the Kennebunk crossing service and has more time. At least I won't have to hem and ha in front of him when he asks how I got across the river without the canoe............Hey I took the canoe the first time across but got impatient in 06 and forded around 6 am.

MOWGLI
08-30-2008, 07:19
In fact, tomorrow I'm heading out for two weeks on the CDT for a strategic plnning session!

I facilitate strategic planning sessions. Let me know if you need some help brainstorming. :D

woodsy
08-30-2008, 08:46
Broke river guides have more fun, think wet bikinis, apres' rafting parties,
free beer/food, people having fun.
Haven't thru hiked the AT but have been a broke river guide, must have gotten brain rewired elsewhere:rolleyes:

Bearpaw88
08-30-2008, 10:24
one of my oldest and best friends is a river guide for the NOC. 27 year old male living in the woods and taking tourists and gapers down rapids after a case of beer and 3 hours of sleep.

what's wrong with that?

I think there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a river guide. The way the guy made it sound it was a horrible thing to do. :eek:

As for me I was a philosophy major in a large city...
Now I am going to finish my degree in forestry...
and I live in a cabin in the woods.

Hey I should get a job as a river guide.:D

Roots
08-30-2008, 13:07
It's a funny thing....just the other night I told Gungho, my hubby, not to do a long section this spring. I told him it would just make it worse for him. :)

After my section, it is ALL I think about. Now we are just waiting for the day we can finally live in the woods. I know I have changed completely since my hike.

PS...I would totally be a river rat. Especilly at NOC. That way I get the AT and the river 24/7. AAHHH!!!:sun

sloopjonboswell
08-30-2008, 13:39
i worked at NOC summer '06, thru hiked in '07. i love the woods, they recharge my batteries. what i took from my hike was the realization that on some base level, we are all materialistic. what do we want in life? in the six months and ten days i spent walking to maine, i came to terms with my own materialism. it was kind of the reverse for me. post thru hike, i'm living in atlanta, working toward a degree that i hope will someday make more $ for me so i can live comfortably. no offense to anyone who hobos out after a thru, i just feel like the experience gave me a more realistic view of the world/life through introspection and soul searching. being really broke gets old after a while. big love to all who follow their own paths.

Montana Mac
08-30-2008, 15:16
I can’t talk about being a “broke river guide” but I know what it is like to be a “broke horseback guide”. I have sectioned many miles of the AT and I’m thru hiking in ’09. I’m not sure if hiking the AT creates the mindset of not having strong materialist goals and a creates a desire to live in the woods or if the person already has that mindset. I know for the past 12 years I spent most of the summer and fall living in a tent in the woods. I also grew up in a family that camped and the appreciation of the woods and nature was developed at a very early age.

Pepper_
08-30-2008, 19:03
I definitely think river guide is a huge upgrade from lawyer... but this is coming from someone who was living the whole corporate career/cubicle/city life, then hiked 500 miles on the AT 2 years ago, and now I'm managing Sundog Outfitters in Damascus for a fraction of the money. But I get to play in the mountains as much as I want. Of course some of my friends & family still think I went crazy and want me to come home, but my brother says he's never seen me happier.

Still, I don't think the hike did anything to my brain. I think I (probably most of us here) was always a little bit odd, didn't want the 2 cars and house in the suburbs, where the closest I'd come to nature would be weekend golf on some manicured course. Ugh. It's just easy to fall into, it's encouraged all around us, and the hike helps set us free. Reminds us what's important to us. The guy who said "it does something to your brain" would probably never decide to go spend 6 months in the woods in the first place. Our brains are already different from his.

“The average is the borderline that keeps mere men in their place (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=20614603#). Those who step over the line are heroes by the very act (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=20614603#). Go (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=20614603#)." (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=20614603#) - Henry Rollins (http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=20614603#)

mudhead
08-30-2008, 19:37
It was the Ramones & Stevie Ray that rotted your brain.

Flying a desk sucks. But it can pay OK.

sherrill
08-30-2008, 22:39
After my thru in 83 I went back to school but after I got my degree I worked at a local outfitter for a few years until I decided that retail was not for me.

Another round of school landed me my current job as a systems analyst for the NIH. Yes, it's a fed job, but I call my own shots and it pays well enough for me and the wife to buy 5 acres near Asheville for a future home.

We hike and kayak as much as we can, just came back from the Inca Trail in Peru. We're not materialistic but we can afford the toys to play hard when we have the chance (she's a social worker). We also can afford to give back when we have the chance as well.

It's all about being happy with where you are and what you're doing.

Wise Old Owl
08-30-2008, 23:32
Might have something to do with Blue Bagging as a river guide, then possible from limited choices on the river smoking that blue bag... I am just saying.... Most of my freinds that were river guides turned out ok.

adventurousmtnlvr
08-30-2008, 23:47
but are the River guides ... broke or not ... Happy ??? If you are happy at whatever job you do ... then you are successful. (you just eat less, lol)

mtnkngxt
08-30-2008, 23:58
Having lived without TV for a few months now, and turning my cell phone off during all but maybe an hour or so a day, I think materialism has gone away in my life. The only things I want for are cans for stoves and hiking stuff. Broke and happy sounds fine to me.

trailangelmary
08-31-2008, 01:40
Thanks, Bearpaw for starting this thread. I think it is way cool. The responses that are being posted are great reading.

smokymtnsteve
08-31-2008, 15:02
but are the River guides ... broke or not ... Happy ??? If you are happy at whatever job you do ... then you are successful. (you just eat less, lol)

or maybe we eat better....between my garden and the 30 salmon I have caught this season, and the gallons of blueberries and ligonberries i have picked...I don't know I eat pretty good I esp like the raspberry patch right beside my front porch,

MOWGLI
08-31-2008, 15:21
or maybe we eat better....between my garden and the 30 salmon I have caught this season, and the gallons of blueberries and ligonberries i have picked...I don't know I eat pretty good I esp like the raspberry patch right beside my front porch,

I was listening to Dr. Dean Edell this AM on the radio. He discussed a recent medical study that showed that raspberries had significant properties that fought cancer.

There are few things I like more than berry picking! Last weekend I returned home with purple stained hands from picking and eating blackberries.

smokymtnsteve
08-31-2008, 17:37
that' is good ...but wuz thar grizz ****e in your blackberry patch?;)

as soon as we return to FBKS we will hit the south slopes of Murphy Dome for more ligonberry.

one great thing about an outhouse rather than a flush toilet is no need for a plunger:banana

got my rain gutter catchment system working so no need for a water hose,

but I do like my chainsaw,

Bearpaw
08-31-2008, 18:16
I think the issue here is balance.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: those who praise the virtues of poverty and decry the evils of wealth have almost never been poor. I grew up poor and I'll give those who haven't been there a pearl of wisdom. Poverty sucks.

That being said, a life lived solely for monetary wealth often tends to be pretty empty also. I know a lot of folks who work long hard crazy lives for wealth they never really get to enjoy.

So here's my experience with the AT and being a broke (in my case mountain) guide.

I thru-hiked the AT in '99. Bar-none, it was the best experience of my life at that point, and my life was already rich with experience at 28. I'd travelled and backpacked in many states as a scout, travelled the world as a Marine living in Japan, and five US states and adventured in Norway, Britain, the Balkans, and a few other beauty spots. But the AT was my own personal adventure in my own time and manner. Totally mine. Totally great.

I went into the corporate world as a supervisor in the Bridgestone/Firestone factory in LaVergne, Tennessee. I worked there a year and a half. I was making $50K a year and got along well with the folks there, a solid blue-collar crowd much like the one I grew up in. But I thought about being back in the mountains the whole time I was there. On a lark, I applied to the National Outdoor Leadership School for their instrucor course. I didn't really expect to get in because it is very selective and I had not been a student there before. Instead I not only got in, I got a scholarship that helped cover most of the course. I gave my notice and went to Wyoming in 2001.

I did well and got into the pipeline. I knew it would be summers only for the first year or two, so I maintained my residence in TN and returned in later summer of 2001. I then started running a rock climbing wall at the YMCA, selling footwear for REI, and became an assistant at a private special ed school for kids with severe behavior issues. It was exhausting. But it was also pretty great. I continued this for 2 years, working summers in Wyoming and the rest of the year in Nashville.

In June of 03, I moved everything to Lander, Wyoming to have a full-time go as an instructor in the mountains. I had four great months of work, but learned that the folks who were "full-time" instructors still only got six months of work a year and were usually straight out of college with either money or a very flexible job. I temped for a while cutting firewood and doing groundskeeping. Then snows got too intense to get away with living out of my jeep and driving into Jackson Hole for work. After 2 1/2 years, I had gotten deeper and deeper in debt with good memories, but no decent future to speak of.

I headed to NC and worked a survey crew from Nov to May 04 there. Then I headed back to the Nashville area and temped driving a forklift on nights while I interviewed with Nashville schools. In August 04, I started a new life, sustainable life.

Even as a teacher, I don't live high on the hog. Newly married, I have to watch my budget like a hawk. But I have a career I love and I still have the ability to hike nearly 3 months out of the year if I plan accordingly. It has allowed me to return to a few hundred miles of AT sections, the Colorado Trail, parts of the John Muir Trail and Benton MacKaye Trails, and many shorter local trails.

Being a broke river guide sounds romantic. And it is for as long as you can pull it off. But when you're in your 30's, in debt, and only able to work this lifestyle maybe half the year (and more likely only 1/4), financial stability with the time off to enjoy it sounds a LOT better.

Jan LiteShoe
08-31-2008, 19:15
I can’t talk about being a “broke river guide” but I know what it is like to be a “broke horseback guide”. I have sectioned many miles of the AT and I’m thru hiking in ’09. I’m not sure if hiking the AT creates the mindset of not having strong materialist goals and a creates a desire to live in the woods or if the person already has that mindset. I know for the past 12 years I spent most of the summer and fall living in a tent in the woods. I also grew up in a family that camped and the appreciation of the woods and nature was developed at a very early age.

Well Mac, I spent three weeks horse-packing in the Bob Marshall Wilderness years before I thru-hiked the AT, so one vote here for the "in the blood" perspective.
:)
I want to go back! Do you still guide trips? I'm sure it wouldn't take much to persuade Marta to join me, either... :banana

Oh wait, I have a story due on deadline... I should be working... :D

boarstone
08-31-2008, 20:47
:banana...that's when I hope to find out if it'll fry my brain, more than it is already...or the CT or the LT one of those _T's...:D

Bearpaw88
09-02-2008, 11:32
Thanks, Bearpaw for starting this thread. I think it is way cool. The responses that are being posted are great reading.

Thanks. Reading the responses to this thread have been great.
Thanks to everyone for the great imput.

According to psychologists it takes three months of doing something every day to form a habit. Six months of continuous hiking must form a strong habit that is hard to shake. Besides rearranging your priorities.

I was on the trail 3 months this year and that was enough for me to get hooked.

Jason of the Woods
09-02-2008, 11:54
I am currently looking for a career in the outdoor industry. If anyone has any suggestions shoot them my way.;)

smokymtnsteve
09-02-2008, 12:13
come to alaska..check out coolworks.com

Tilly
09-02-2008, 12:34
Great post, Bearpaw 1999. (Just to differentiate.)

I think anyone who thinks it's great to be broke hasn't ever been...

Not everyone starts out making $70 K and then sees the light of destitution.

Lots of people live in between next year's Escalade and a 6th hand Pinto.

Balance. It's not fun living in a crappy neighborhood, not having health ins. and painstakingly fixing your budget to fit everything in before the next paycheck. That being said, is it worth working 60 hrs a week to pay for extraneous crap that you don't need?

Even if you hike every year or every other year, you have to like your life in between, too.

Just my $0.02. (Hey, I just realized that this keyboard doesn't have a cent key...!)

Footslogger
09-02-2008, 12:36
So what do you think? Does hiking the A.T. doom you to a life of a broke river guide?

Does it do something to our brains :D
=================================

Maybe not a river guide ...but I fit pretty well into the "Broke" (and bent) category.

'Slogger

ki0eh
09-02-2008, 14:56
Just my $0.02. (Hey, I just realized that this keyboard doesn't have a cent key...!)

http://www.charlieanderson.com/centsign.htm

Bearpaw88
09-02-2008, 16:43
Great post, Bearpaw 1999. (Just to differentiate.)

I think anyone who thinks it's great to be broke hasn't ever been...

Being really broke does really suck.

That being said being weathy and a slave to work or having a job you hate sucks about as much.

Someone asked about jobs in the outdoor industry. If you want a two year degree try Natural Resource technician. Growing feild with job opportunities from parks department, wilderness fire fighting, to working at a fish hatchery. For four year try Enviornmental Sciences, Forestry, or Natural Resource Management. Also volunteer as much as you can for your parks department and trail network. It's not just fun it is also great on a resume. :D

Tilly
09-02-2008, 17:05
http://www.charlieanderson.com/centsign.htm

Thanks for the site, very interesting...I swear my previous keyboard...I think it was a Gateway computer? had the little cent sign. But I could be mistaken.

I do miss the fraction keys, though. I remember those from my 1st Brother typewriter...

The Old Fhart
09-02-2008, 17:06
You can make the cent sign, ˘, on a PC by holding down ALT and typing 0162 on the numeric keypad.

Mags
09-02-2008, 17:28
I
Being a broke river guide sounds romantic. And it is for as long as you can pull it off. But when you're in your 30's, in debt, and only able to work this lifestyle maybe half the year (and more likely only 1/4), financial stability with the time off to enjoy it sounds a LOT better.

Bearpaw,

Nice post. I am heading into education myself (hopefully!) one course or so at a time. I am hoping it provides the balance I've been looking for in my life.

I, too, came from modest means. Don't know if we were "poor", but I do know enough that worrying about bills ain't fun. I also know that continuous years of physical labor (be it construction or a rafting guide!) does a number on the body.

Anyway..striking the balance is a goal of mine. I'll see if I pull it off. :)

mtnkngxt
09-02-2008, 17:46
I want to work for department of the interior, Forest Service, or Fish and Wildlife. I see it as a middle ground. Not much money, but get paid to do what I would do for free.

buff_jeff
09-02-2008, 19:20
Bearpaw,

Nice post. I am heading into education myself (hopefully!) one course or so at a time. I am hoping it provides the balance I've been looking for in my life.

I, too, came from modest means. Don't know if we were "poor", but I do know enough that worrying about bills ain't fun. I also know that continuous years of physical labor (be it construction or a rafting guide!) does a number on the body.

Anyway..striking the balance is a goal of mine. I'll see if I pull it off. :)

That's the field I one day hope to enter. Both of my parents are teachers and I've seen everything they've been able to do. My dad got to hike 500+ miles of the AT with me this summer. I can only hope to be able to do that one day.

taildragger
09-02-2008, 19:38
I want to work for department of the interior, Forest Service, or Fish and Wildlife. I see it as a middle ground. Not much money, but get paid to do what I would do for free.

I used to work for the Wildlife Dept. I liked it a lot, except that I'm not happy being lazy, and since it was a government job, there was some major down time at times, and the saying "Good enough for gov't work often came to mind". That being said, it was the type of life that I'd love to have, but at their salaries I'd rather not.

That last bit may seem selfish here and going against this thread, but one day I might have a wife and eventually kids. I want my kids to have all the opportunities that they can. I don't want them to have to take out tons of loans to get through college (if they choose to go). If I live in a state with a crappy education system (like the one I live in now) I'd like to be able to send them to a good private school.

There are adventures that I'd love to go on that take some funding. I'd love to spend a month hunting and living in the backwoods of Alaska. I'd like to be able to fund medical mission trips. I'd like to work hard and reap the benefits, the rewards, and be able to pass them on.

Being a river guide would be awesome right now, but I've got to think about my future and my potential family's future as well, and now is the time to juggle those two goals. I've run myself out of money hunting and hiking. I've loved every second of it, but I don't want my family to have to live like I do now.

Bearpaw
09-02-2008, 19:45
Bearpaw,

Nice post. I am heading into education myself (hopefully!) one course or so at a time. Anyway..striking the balance is a goal of mine. I'll see if I pull it off. :)

The real key is to enjoy your school and your kids. My kids are high-need and sometimes violent, but that just makes it more satisfying when you build a relationship that allows you both to find laughter each day and learn from each other. (And believe me, I learn plenty from my kids). My school is very supportive as well.

My wife has worked schools she loves and a school she hated. Both the kids AND staff support are critical. A good school makes time off welcome and returning a fairly happy event as well.

Jason of the Woods
09-02-2008, 20:01
come to alaska..check out coolworks.com
I applied for a couple of positions on there today. There is really nothing keeping me here anymore.

smokymtnsteve
09-03-2008, 00:06
I applied for a couple of positions on there today. There is really nothing keeping me here anymore.


any of them in AK?? I know a few of the places esp. around Denali and the interior...if near Fairbanks I can help you around when you get here.


also try

http://www.sleddogcentral.com/classifieds/handlerswanted.asp

this winter then next summer on the glaciers

Bearpaw88
09-04-2008, 15:50
That last bit may seem selfish here and going against this thread, but one day I might have a wife and eventually kids. I want my kids to have all the opportunities that they can. I don't want them to have to take out tons of loans to get through college (if they choose to go). If I live in a state with a crappy education system (like the one I live in now) I'd like to be able to send them to a good private school.

The ultimate dream... finding something you love to do AND getting paid great for it. Security is definately an issue especially when you have a family to think about. That is why I am finishing school.

Maybe someday I can find something I love that also pays well. Right now it's not happening :D

Jim Adams
09-04-2008, 19:25
I have been a river guide for the past 30 years...sometimes full time, sometimes part time...sometimes broke...sometimes with plenty.
The river kinda mellows you over the years...OTOH...the trail makes me crazy at times with excitement...the trail will change you.....
.....I would retire now if I could afford a bigger tent!

geek