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slow
09-01-2008, 20:53
Is so overrated it's not funny.A -10 WM BAG that is dry and your change in camp will keep you safe in a nobo...even DEC.

Egads
09-01-2008, 21:04
Don't get your point.

Frosty
09-01-2008, 21:10
Is so overrated it's not funny.A -10 WM BAG that is dry and your change in camp will keep you safe in a nobo...even DEC.Two-three years ago in early March I was shivering in my -25* bag just off N. Kinsman.

Anyway, it isn't sleeping in the cold that's the worst, it's doing camp chores like cooking, eating, going to the bathroom, etc.

bigcranky
09-01-2008, 21:33
Anyway, it isn't sleeping in the cold that's the worst, it's doing camp chores like cooking, eating, going to the bathroom, etc.

I dunno Frosty, lying in the bag shivering at midnight, knowing it's only going to get colder, is pretty bad. All kinds of unwelcome thoughts start to intrude. ("Who's idea was this?" and "Maybe they'll find my body before spring" are two.)

But, yeah, camp chores in really cold weather suck, too.

Who's idea was this? :)

slow
09-01-2008, 22:06
IF you cant live in a -10 bag and due work,eat,drink on the AT ...WELL.?

slow
09-01-2008, 22:13
Two-three years ago in early March I was shivering in my -25* bag just off N. Kinsman.

Anyway, it isn't sleeping in the cold that's the worst, it's doing camp chores like cooking, eating, going to the bathroom, etc.

Did you shiver in a WM PUMA?

thestin
09-01-2008, 22:16
Kind of hard to crawl in a sleeping bag when you're in the pouring rain, it's in the 30s, the wind is howling and you're not in an area to set up camp to get out of the weather.

KG4FAM
09-01-2008, 22:17
IF you cant live in a -10 bag and due work,eat,drink on the AT ...WELL.?Its kind of hard to take a dump inside your sleeping bag. Maybe they should start making bags with a back flap.

slow
09-01-2008, 22:20
Kind of hard to crawl in a sleeping bag when you're in the pouring rain, it's in the 30s, the wind is howling and you're not in an area to set up camp to get out of the weather.

But YOU made the call to walk...or..sit.

slow
09-01-2008, 22:36
Its kind of hard to take a dump inside your sleeping bag. Maybe they should start making bags with a back flap.

With just rain gear inside ...you can go 5days easy...no food or water.

smokymtnsteve
09-01-2008, 22:46
Its kind of hard to take a dump inside your sleeping bag. Maybe they should start making bags with a back flap.


it wouldn't be hard to take a dump in your sleeping bag..the aftermath could be undesireable..

but I routinely use an outhouse at -40 F so what is the big deal?

slow
09-01-2008, 23:25
-40 a puma with proper under is easy with a good tent.

Tipi Walter
09-02-2008, 08:40
Is so overrated it's not funny.A -10 WM BAG that is dry and your change in camp will keep you safe in a nobo...even DEC.


IF you cant live in a -10 bag and due work,eat,drink on the AT ...WELL.?


Did you shiver in a WM PUMA?


But YOU made the call to walk...or..sit.


With just rain gear inside ...you can go 5days easy...no food or water.


-40 a puma with proper under is easy with a good tent.

Man, it must be too early in the morning for me to put some sense into this thread. It sounds like Phil Hendrie interviewing Bud Dickman.

If I understand your question(and I don't), I'd say a WM Puma will, with the proper "under", keep you warm in all conditions. How do I know? Cuz I replaced my old Marmot Couloir zero bag with a Puma last year just to stay warm in 10 degrees and below. The Marmot stopped working at around 10 degrees and anything near zero was a struggle. The Puma of course is a furnace and the microfiber is light years ahead of the Marmot's shell.

Frosty
09-02-2008, 10:02
Man, it must be too early in the morning for me to put some sense into this thread. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Sounds like a guy from Florida who never winter camped wondering what the big deal is.

Anyone who has tried it would not be talking like backpacking on the Norhtern New England AT in the winter is not a big deal as long as you have a -10* bag.

dessertrat
09-02-2008, 10:04
Kind of hard to crawl in a sleeping bag when you're in the pouring rain, it's in the 30s, the wind is howling and you're not in an area to set up camp to get out of the weather.

That's why everyone should carry a bivy bag or "survival bag" when it's cold enough to make hypothermia a real risk.

IceAge
09-02-2008, 11:57
Is so overrated it's not funny.A -10 WM BAG that is dry and your change in camp will keep you safe in a nobo...even DEC.

Ok, I went and bought the -10 WM bag, now I just need to know how much change to have in camp. Is 80 cents enough? Does it matter how many nickels there are?

WAYSEEKER
09-02-2008, 12:04
I have no clue on the subject of the thread..... Is it just me ?

Gray Blazer
09-02-2008, 13:28
Ok, I went and bought the -10 WM bag, now I just need to know how much change to have in camp. Is 80 cents enough? Does it matter how many nickels there are?
Change is good.

Frosty
09-02-2008, 15:03
Change is good.
Be the change you want to see in the world.
- Mahatma Gandhi

KG4FAM
09-02-2008, 15:11
Ok, I went and bought the -10 WM bag, now I just need to know how much change to have in camp. Is 80 cents enough? Does it matter how many nickels there are?Does anybody got a dime? Somebody's got to go back and get a ****load of dimes.

TD55
09-02-2008, 15:19
Why would anyone carry more than one nickel? Why would you carry that kind of weight? Tow nickels is like 6 times heavier than a dime. I don't understand this thread.

Gray Blazer
09-02-2008, 17:43
Be the change you want to see in the world.
- Mahatma Gandhi
Gandhi was a good man. So is Slow.

kayak karl
09-02-2008, 18:52
Why would anyone carry more than one nickel? Why would you carry that kind of weight? Tow nickels is like 6 times heavier than a dime. I don't understand this thread.
if you carry a fifty cent piece, quarter, dime (in shoe for phone) 2 nickels, 4 pennies you can pay exact change for under a dollar. WE DO NEED EXACT CHANGE, RIGHT. :confused:

slow
09-02-2008, 21:39
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Sounds like a guy from Florida who never winter camped wondering what the big deal is.

Anyone who has tried it would not be talking like backpacking on the Norhtern New England AT in the winter is not a big deal as long as you have a -10* bag.

Read..NO-BO DEC.:-?

slow
09-02-2008, 21:50
Has anyone died from a dec start with a - 10 bag...NO.
The point is safe is great... but lets not go overboard.

Wilson
09-02-2008, 21:54
-10 noe enuff. You will freeze and be eatn by 400# bear on theAT

Gray Blazer
09-02-2008, 22:06
-10 noe enuff. You will freeze and be eatn by 400# bear on theAT

ur be in funni

KG4FAM
09-03-2008, 14:44
Has anyone died from a dec start with a - 10 bag...NO.
The point is safe is great... but lets not go overboard.What about a SOBO dec start?

slow
09-03-2008, 20:13
what About A Sobo Dec Start?

Look It Up...and See What Is Open?

Gray Blazer
09-03-2008, 23:27
I know what's not open.

Does anybody else find this to be a vague thread?

cowboy nichols
09-03-2008, 23:35
Was this thread started by a politician???

Bob S
09-04-2008, 00:54
and "Maybe they'll find my body before spring" are two. Who's idea was this? :)


That was funny, at least to someone not freezing right now...:cool:

Nicksaari
09-04-2008, 04:25
central section of SNP a few years back, camped at big meadows, met by friends, beer in tote. it was a not too chilly night in late sept. went to bed intoxicated, awoke in the wee hours to answer nature's call. i unzipped the tent and fly, and stood and relived myself standing at the edge of my tent. a chilly breeze blew through me, as i was not adequately dressed for the cold. to make a long story short, i shivered in my bag for the next hour, i could feel my body temp start to plummet as i peed, it took hours to get back to sleep. and i was sick with a cold the next week.

is that what this thread was about?

IceAge
09-04-2008, 10:24
....is that what this thread was about?

It depends, did you have a -10 rated bag? And if so, did you also have 73­ American cents and a Canadian dime?

Gray Blazer
09-04-2008, 10:50
Alright, I confess. I did a trail feed in 06 where I hauled everything up to Rocky Bald, Nantahalas and camped for a few days. It never really got above 20 degrees. I tried sleeping in my tent on an air matresss with one of those coleman blankets and two cheap ponchos (I'm from FL) and all my FL clothes and a leather jacket. I'm lucky I'm alive to tell the story. I shivered the whole night. I did get a little sleep and no frostbite. I'll never do that again.

Nicksaari
09-04-2008, 17:33
waking up in a cold sweat always sucks. esp when you went to bed, it was warm out.
i hate that. always makes for uneasy sleep

Egads
09-04-2008, 18:44
Slow - I still don't get your point.

kayak karl
09-04-2008, 19:19
i noticed i had 666 posts, didn't like that so its 667 now.:D
seemed the perfect thread to do this:)

slow
09-04-2008, 21:44
You KIDS are FUNNY.:)

ed bell
09-05-2008, 00:09
Slow - I still don't get your point.


You KIDS are FUNNY.:)About the cold.:sun

Gray Blazer
09-05-2008, 10:06
My computer won't allow me to access p3 of this thread so I thought if I posted maybe that will get me there. Let's see.
This will only add to the vagueness of this thread IF it works.

Gray Blazer
09-05-2008, 10:07
Weird, I'm the only one here on p3. My computer is messing with me. Sorry about that.

Egads
09-05-2008, 17:24
I'm not cold. Are you?

slow
09-05-2008, 19:08
Slow - I still don't get your point.

If you buy high end like WM...you dont have to worry.

Most will buy 2 line MB.

You can also due a dec nobo with a big 4 under 6lb easy.

Skidsteer
09-05-2008, 19:48
If you buy high end like WM...you dont have to worry.

Most will buy 2 line MB.

You can also due a dec nobo with a big 4 under 6lb easy.

Sure. There's a town to go to whenever it gets too cold.

kayak karl
09-05-2008, 20:30
If you buy high end like WM...you dont have to worry.

Most will buy 2 line MB.

You can also due a dec nobo with a big 4 under 6lb easy.

Slow - I still don't get your point.

slow
09-05-2008, 20:38
Sure. There's a town to go to whenever it gets too cold.

Sure,for the winter packers with no money.:)

slow
09-05-2008, 20:48
Slow - I still don't get your point.

Some members have a way of saying you need more,due to lower gear.And that is fine...but dont think you know what good gear can do when you dont have it.:)

Egads
09-05-2008, 22:10
Slow,

You are too sparing of words for most of us. WB doesn't charge users by the letter.

Yes, WM makes a great bag, true to ratings. MB happens to make a great bag too. I know as I have both. And you are right that you can go light weight.

Egads

slow
09-05-2008, 22:31
Slow,

You are too sparing of words for most of us. WB doesn't charge users by the letter.

Yes, WM makes a great bag, true to ratings. MB happens to make a great bag too. I know as I have both. And you are right that you can go light weight.

Egads

Show me a stat with a MB 32 bag that are rated for a side sleeper....with his knee's killing the loft that great system?

BipolarStroller
09-06-2008, 09:31
too funny, just my two cents, got change for a nickel?

slow
09-06-2008, 19:12
too funny, just my two cents, got change for a nickel?


JUST COIN should get you a mb bag... butt?

Panzer1
09-06-2008, 21:39
Anyway, it isn't sleeping in the cold that's the worst, it's doing camp chores like cooking, eating, going to the bathroom, etc.

yea, I think your right about that. Add to that list; just trying to sit down and rest for a while.

Panzer

The Solemates
09-08-2008, 09:48
JUST COIN should get you a mb bag... butt?

COIN bag -10 wm, cheek?

Gray Blazer
09-08-2008, 10:42
Cheek to coin.

The Solemates
09-08-2008, 10:46
Cheek to coin.

Roger that, come in cheek, COIN here.

Gray Blazer
09-08-2008, 10:51
Roger that, come in cheek, COIN here.
How many peaks in your bag-wm-over.

The Solemates
09-08-2008, 11:49
How many peaks in your bag-wm-over.

one peak in my wm, and then only with the misses, over

Gray Blazer
09-08-2008, 13:20
one peak in my wm, and then only with the misses, over
UUUuuuuummmmm.......roger that.

Egads
09-08-2008, 17:44
This thread has digressed beyond connection to reality

NICKTHEGREEK
09-08-2008, 18:20
It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Sounds like a guy from Florida who never winter camped wondering what the big deal is.

Anyone who has tried it would not be talking like backpacking on the Norhtern New England AT in the winter is not a big deal as long as you have a -10* bag.
Not even a clue what he is trying to say

slow
09-08-2008, 18:29
When you have 10# or a 6# big four for winter ...that's what you get.
BUT all try to help in some way.

Frosty
09-08-2008, 19:46
UUUuuuuummmmm.......roger that.This thread reminds me of the roger roger scene airplane, with airplane officers with names of Roger, Victor and Clarence (Oveur):

[as the plane prepares to take off]

Roger Murdock: Flight 2-0-9'er, you are cleared for take-off.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Captain Oveur: What?
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!
Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.
Tower voice: Over.
Captain Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: Roger, over!
Roger Murdock: What?
Captain Oveur: Huh?
Victor Basta: Who?

Or the Airplane II scene with Oveur, Dunn and Unger:

Simon: Gentlemen, I'd like you to meet your captain, Captain Oveur.
Clarence Oveur: Gentlemen, welcome aboard.
Simon: Captain, your navigator, Mr. Unger, and your first officer, Mr. Dunn.
Clarence Oveur: Unger.
Unger: Oveur.
Dunn: Oveur.
Clarence Oveur: Dunn. Gentlemen, let's get to work.
Simon: Unger, didn't you serve under Oveur in the Air Force?
Unger: Not directly. Technically, Dunn was under Oveur and I was under Dunn.
Dunn: Yep.
Simon: So, Dunn, you were under Oveur and over Unger.
Unger: Yep.
Clarence Oveur: That's right. Dunn was over Unger and I was over Dunn.
Unger: So, you see, both Dunn and I were under Oveur, even though I was under Dunn.
Clarence Oveur: Dunn was over Unger, and I was over Dunn.

Maybe off topic, but at least they make more sense than this thread.

slow
09-08-2008, 20:12
This thread reminds me of the roger roger scene airplane, with airplane officers with names of Roger, Victor and Clarence (Oveur):

[as the plane prepares to take off]

Roger Murdock: Flight 2-0-9'er, you are cleared for take-off.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: L.A. departure frequency, 123 point 9'er.
Captain Oveur: Roger!
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Victor Basta: Request vector, over.
Captain Oveur: What?
Tower voice: Flight 2-0-9'er cleared for vector 324.
Roger Murdock: We have clearance, Clarence.
Captain Oveur: Roger, Roger. What's our vector, Victor?
Tower voice: Tower's radio clearance, over!
Captain Oveur: That's Clarence Oveur. Over.
Tower voice: Over.
Captain Oveur: Roger.
Roger Murdock: Huh?
Tower voice: Roger, over!
Roger Murdock: What?
Captain Oveur: Huh?
Victor Basta: Who?

Or the Airplane II scene with Oveur, Dunn and Unger:

Simon: Gentlemen, I'd like you to meet your captain, Captain Oveur.
Clarence Oveur: Gentlemen, welcome aboard.
Simon: Captain, your navigator, Mr. Unger, and your first officer, Mr. Dunn.
Clarence Oveur: Unger.
Unger: Oveur.
Dunn: Oveur.
Clarence Oveur: Dunn. Gentlemen, let's get to work.
Simon: Unger, didn't you serve under Oveur in the Air Force?
Unger: Not directly. Technically, Dunn was under Oveur and I was under Dunn.
Dunn: Yep.
Simon: So, Dunn, you were under Oveur and over Unger.
Unger: Yep.
Clarence Oveur: That's right. Dunn was over Unger and I was over Dunn.
Unger: So, you see, both Dunn and I were under Oveur, even though I was under Dunn.
Clarence Oveur: Dunn was over Unger, and I was over Dunn.

Maybe off topic, but at least they make more sense than this thread.

PLEASE... IF YOU HAVE THE TIME..... BIG 4 LIST?:) IT may help a bunch.:)

J5man
09-08-2008, 20:27
Man, it must be too early in the morning for me to put some sense into this thread. It sounds like Phil Hendrie interviewing Bud Dickman.

If I understand your question(and I don't), I'd say a WM Puma will, with the proper "under", keep you warm in all conditions. How do I know? Cuz I replaced my old Marmot Couloir zero bag with a Puma last year just to stay warm in 10 degrees and below. The Marmot stopped working at around 10 degrees and anything near zero was a struggle. The Puma of course is a furnace and the microfiber is light years ahead of the Marmot's shell.

Matthewski, are you using another name on here?!!! I agree with you Tipi.

slow
09-08-2008, 22:48
Frosty....well?

take-a-knee
09-08-2008, 23:23
Change is good.

So, if you and I met on the trail and were in the middle of a pleasant conversation, and all of a sudden I decided to kick you in the crotch, that wouldn't certainly qualify as change, so, by your rationale, that would be good.:-?

slow
09-08-2008, 23:50
So, if you and I met on the trail and were in the middle of a pleasant conversation, and all of a sudden I decided to kick you in the crotch, that wouldn't certainly qualify as change, so, by your rationale, that would be good.:-?

PLEASE, only A.T.:)

Jim Adams
09-09-2008, 00:22
Weird, I'm the only one here on p3. My computer is messing with me. Sorry about that.

My computer did the same thing last night...don't think that its the computer.
Don't get this thread at all but it has been entertaining to say the least...JUST MY 2 CENTS WORTH!

...and stop calling me Shirley!

geek

Gray Blazer
09-09-2008, 07:41
So, if you and I met on the trail and were in the middle of a pleasant conversation, and all of a sudden I decided to kick you in the crotch, that wouldn't certainly qualify as change, so, by your rationale, that would be good.:-?

Might be good for you but not me.

Slow, I'm getting that WM Puma that Tipi mentioned. I never want to freeze in NC again. Does anyone have one that they'd like to trade for a coupla my AT pics and frames? Right now I have a Mountain Crossings 40 degree bag that Winton traded to me for one of my pics/frame. I've got some wool socks and a good watch cap and some thermal underwear, glove liners, fleece jacket and a sierra designs waterproof wind breaker.

Gray Blazer
09-09-2008, 07:45
Frosty, my favorite parts of Airplane are the nun who speaks jive and the auto-pilot smoking the cigarette.

Don't get cold on the AT.

IceAge
09-10-2008, 11:04
My "Big 4" weight, if I am expecting temps below freezing, is 15.4 lbs :eek:

I could obviously go lighter but I don't do all that much sub-freezing hiking, so my hiking dollar usually goes to 3 season equipment.

gaga
09-10-2008, 11:31
hope this will clear up all of your confusions ( I just love this pic ) about A$$ freezing
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=911&catid=popimages&orderby=posts

Frosty
09-10-2008, 14:25
Frosty, my favorite parts of Airplane are the nun who speaks jive and the auto-pilot smoking the cigarette.Surely you're not serious.

Gray Blazer
09-10-2008, 14:31
Surely you're not serious.

:D..:banana...:p..:)..:rolleyes:..

slow
09-10-2008, 21:27
Frosty...seems to have no big 4 LIST but will chime in?:rolleyes:

Egads
09-10-2008, 21:55
Four big ones for winter. This will work in the SE.

Goss Gear G4 Pack 1.06
MLD Patrol Shelter 0.67
MB #0 Bag 2.9
POE Hyper Mtn Pad 1.3
Total 5.92

If you don't like the tarp, carry a Hilleberg Soulo and add 4.4 lbs and a total weight of 10.3 lbs

take-a-knee
09-10-2008, 22:25
PLEASE, only A.T.:)

Sorry, the word "change" is a target indicator these days.

slow
09-10-2008, 22:30
Four big ones for winter

Goss Gear G4 Pack 1.06
MLD Patrol Shelter 0.67
MB #0 Bag 2.9
POE Hyper Mtn Pad 1.3
Total 5.92

If you don't like the tarp, carry a Hilleberg Soulo and add 4.4 lbs and a total weight of 10.3 lbs

A little to much for me...but.:)

slow
09-10-2008, 23:17
Show me a STAT on MB bags...what the rating is with full expanision.:D

Egads
09-11-2008, 07:01
These charts are for the old 725 fp bags before changing to 800 fp.

Egads
09-11-2008, 07:06
A little too much for me...but.:)

You can drop 6 oz by changing the pad from the R-8 POE to a R-2.2 Thermarest Z-lite. I prefer the comfort & warmth of the POE

kayak karl
09-11-2008, 07:14
Show me a STAT on MB bags...what the rating is with full expanision.:D
the companies specs have to vary because people are different. the body runs at about 98.6 degrees. the bags rating is the temp at which the heat loss will increase beyond the bodies capability to replace it. for example an AC unit surely does not cool the air it REMOVES the heat. heat is the real thing, cold(which doesn't exist) is air with less heat is it.

slow
09-13-2008, 01:47
the companies specs have to vary because people are different. the body runs at about 98.6 degrees. the bags rating is the temp at which the heat loss will increase beyond the bodies capability to replace it. for example an AC unit surely does not cool the air it REMOVES the heat. heat is the real thing, cold(which doesn't exist) is air with less heat is it.

You are right,heat goes from hot to cold.

NOW show me a true rating of a full pushed(side to side).. MB bag for a 8hr sleep?

The true loft for a side sleeper is a joke.:o

Wags
09-13-2008, 09:23
i read this and still don't understand. is it cold on the AT or not?

MOWGLI
09-13-2008, 09:27
I suspect that my tinnitus (ringing of the ears) is partially attributable to prolonged exposure to cold on the AT in 2000.

Yes, it can be cold. I started on March 7. Low temps in the low teens.

Tilly
09-13-2008, 09:29
Dear Slow,

I think that the heat in Florida is overrated.

Especially in July. Just open the windows and it's fine! :sun

kayak karl
09-13-2008, 10:10
You are right,heat goes from hot to cold.

NOW show me a true rating of a full pushed(side to side).. MB bag for a 8hr sleep?

The true loft for a side sleeper is a joke.:o

"It turns out that the process of testing sleeping bags for their warmth rating is not as easy or precise as you might think. A brave attempt by makers of sleeping bags and the outdoor industry group that represent them recently failed to regularize the testing process and take the guesswork out of buying a sleeping bag. "

read on its interesting, http://gorp.away.com/gorp/gear/knowhow/bag_temp2.htm

they have a part on tossing and turning, but no side sleeping:D

slow
09-13-2008, 18:33
"It turns out that the process of testing sleeping bags for their warmth rating is not as easy or precise as you might think. A brave attempt by makers of sleeping bags and the outdoor industry group that represent them recently failed to regularize the testing process and take the guesswork out of buying a sleeping bag. "

read on its interesting, http://gorp.away.com/gorp/gear/knowhow/bag_temp2.htm

they have a part on tossing and turning, but no side sleeping:D

Tossing or turning means 0 to what the temp rate is ...when extended in the middle of the bag,due to a side sleeper for 6hr.

MB bags if extened the #'s would be a joke,FACT.

slow
09-13-2008, 18:51
Dear Slow,

I think that the heat in Florida is overrated.

Especially in July. Just open the windows and it's fine! :sun

No aug is....get it right.:)

gaga
09-13-2008, 21:33
[quote=slow;696795]Tossing or turning means 0 to what the temp rate is ...when extended in the middle of the bag,due to a side sleeper for 6hr.

you can always increase the heat in your sleeping bag by eating canned beans for diner :D:banana:D

Blissful
09-13-2008, 21:57
i read this and still don't understand. is it cold on the AT or not?


Not this weekend in VA. It's HOT. 94 in the valley tomorrow.

yaduck9
09-13-2008, 22:10
[quote=slow;696795]Tossing or turning means 0 to what the temp rate is ...when extended in the middle of the bag,due to a side sleeper for 6hr.

you can always increase the heat in your sleeping bag by eating canned beans for diner :D:banana:D

Sure, but no returns afterwards!

Egads
09-14-2008, 14:09
Tossing or turning means 0 to what the temp rate is ...when extended in the middle of the bag,due to a side sleeper for 6hr.

MB bags if extended the #'s would be a joke,FACT.

This is true with any bag when your limbs compress the down.

We get it, you don't like Montbell Bags. Let's move on.