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WhiteBlaze
09-06-2008, 14:10
<table border=0 width= valign=top cellpadding=2 cellspacing=7><tr><td width=80 align=center valign=top><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0i-0&fd=R&url=http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/09/duncannon_hotel_owners_want_to.html&cid=0&ei=fcfCSIvTK47I8ATV7YThAw&usg=AFQjCNHkPfpzHZry_jPC5lCXwxPbgdrEEQ"><img src=http://news.google.com/news?imgefp=rX7cdFsdy7UJ&imgurl=blog.pennlive.com/midstate_impact/2008/09/large_trail.jpg width=80 height=60 alt="" border=1><br><font size=-2>The Patriot-News - PennLive.com</font></a></font></td><td valign=top class=j><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class=lh><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/09/duncannon_hotel_owners_want_to.html&cid=0&ei=fcfCSIvTK47I8ATV7YThAw&usg=AFQjCNHkPfpzHZry_jPC5lCXwxPbgdrEEQ">Hotel owners suggest rerouting <b>Appalachian Trail</b></a><br><font size=-1><font color=#6f6f6f>The Patriot-News - PennLive.com,&nbsp;PA&nbsp;-</font> <nobr>2 minutes ago</nobr></font><br><font size=-1>Pat and Vickey Kelly are hoping to redirect the <b>Appalachian Trail</b> down Duncannon&#39;s business district. More than 1000 hikers a year stop in the Kelleys&#39; <b>...</b></font></div></font></td></tr></table>

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2008/09/duncannon_hotel_owners_want_to.html&cid=0&ei=fcfCSIvTK47I8ATV7YThAw&usg=AFQjCNHkPfpzHZry_jPC5lCXwxPbgdrEEQ)

boarstone
09-06-2008, 14:35
Not having been there but sure hoping to in later years (5)...here's to you folks getting the "off-shoot" trail link to downtown and signage to that effect...I wish you good luck and trail worthiness...:banana

Pacific Tortuga
09-06-2008, 15:29
I really feel Pat and Vickey Kelly are a class act and the Doyle is a real respite for hikers, travelers and locals.
Most road walkin' has been re-routed on the Trail, I'm for it going back on this section.

Jack Tarlin
09-06-2008, 16:14
Wow, this one's such a no-brainer, I'm not sure why it hasn't been done long ago. By re-routing the Trail thru the town center, hikers would pass the Doyle Hotel (where most hiker visitors to Duncannon lodge); you'd pass Goodies, the best place in town to have breakfast; you'd pass the Pub and Sorrento's, two good places to eat that have welcomed hikers for years; you'd pass right by TrailangelMary's apartment, where many a hiker has found help and hospitality; you'd go right past the Duncannon Post Office; and a few blocks later, you'd go by 3B's, one of the best ice cream shops on the wholeTrail.

Re-routing the Trail down North Market Street is a really good idea and I hope it happens.

Sly
09-06-2008, 16:28
Nothing a little paint can't take care of! ;)

Brushy Sage
09-06-2008, 16:29
Is Duncannon as trail friendly as, say, Hot Springs? It sounds as if the town planners would welcome this change, as being compatible with their plans.

Wise Old Owl
09-06-2008, 16:36
I can supply the white paint!

Jack Tarlin
09-06-2008, 16:38
Kinda hard to compare the two.

Hot Springs is a quiet little resort town in the middle of nowhere with perhaps 700 people.

Duncannon is an old town, much larger, with twice as many people, in a built- up area near its state capital.

The two communities have very little in common, other than the fact that the A.T. runs right thru them.

Both are friendly in different ways, but in terms of welcoming outsiders and strangers, and being friendly to folks who don't look, dress, or smell like regular folk, well yeah, Duncannon is as friendly as any place on the Trail.

emerald
09-06-2008, 17:11
Since the A.T maintaining club chose to put the A.T. where it now is, I expect they had a good reason for chosing the current route even if their rational may not make sense to some.

Sly
09-06-2008, 18:04
but there's one person here who would like ATC and the trail maintaining club to explain why the A.T. is elsewhere, me. They may have a good reason.


I believe why they have the trail where it is now has something to do with the routing through town, an unsafe or narrow street, no sidewalk maybe.

rainmaker
09-06-2008, 21:59
Sounds like a great idea since practically everyone goes to the Doyle anyway and the official trail is still a sidewalk. Madame and thoroughly enjoyed our stay there last year.

chief
09-06-2008, 23:35
Bad idea! If anything, the trail (if possible) should be routed out of town.

trailangelmary
09-06-2008, 23:57
Bad idea! If anything, the trail (if possible) should be routed out of town.
to where?

trailangelmary
09-07-2008, 00:02
I believe why they have the trail where it is now has something to do with the routing through town, an unsafe or narrow street, no sidewalk maybe.

From what I understand, the trail used to go into Noyes Park and then across the walking bridge that goes directly onto High St. The borough president explained it to me one time several years ago but it didn't make sense to me but then again I didn't live here at the time it was changed. But if I remember right it had to do with residences that used to be there, maybe??

WhiteBlaze
09-07-2008, 00:30
<table border=0 width= valign=top cellpadding=2 cellspacing=7><tr><td valign=top class=j><font style="font-size:85%;font-family:arial,sans-serif"><br><div style="padding-top:0.8em;"><img alt="" height="1" width="1"></div><div class=lh><a href="http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/6-0&fd=R&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf%3F/base/news/1220737202110280.xml%26coll%3D1&cid=0&ei=zVjDSKyaA6H8ygSDkozWAw&usg=AFQjCNEZPexs1qTwU3kfLisFOvQZYKs9yQ">Hotel owners want <b>trail</b> rerouted through town</a><br><font size=-1><font color=#6f6f6f>The Patriot-News - PennLive.com,&nbsp;PA&nbsp;-</font> <nobr>10 minutes ago</nobr></font><br><font size=-1>BY JOE ELIAS DUNCANNON - Pat and Vickey Kelly hope to redirect the <b>Appalachian Trail</b> down Duncannon&#39;s business district. More than 1000 hikers a year stop <b>...</b></font></div></font></td></tr></table>

More... (http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/6-0&fd=R&url=http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf%3F/base/news/1220737202110280.xml%26coll%3D1&cid=0&ei=zVjDSKyaA6H8ygSDkozWAw&usg=AFQjCNEZPexs1qTwU3kfLisFOvQZYKs9yQ)

Panzer1
09-07-2008, 03:00
Bad idea! If anything, the trail (if possible) should be routed out of town.

You have to go thru the town to get to the bridge that crosses the Susquehanna. The town is built right up against the foot of the bridge.

Panzer

Sly
09-07-2008, 03:04
Bad idea! If anything, the trail (if possible) should be routed out of town.

Why? IMO, hikers I'd would rather hike through town then have to hitch in and out of it. YMMV

Odd Thomas
09-07-2008, 04:29
Move the trail on to the roads, then it'll hit all the towns. Trail maintenance would overlap with the highway budget too, win-win. :p

rafe
09-07-2008, 08:14
Bad idea! If anything, the trail (if possible) should be routed out of town.

The trail needs to get across the Susquehanna somehow... and it's a big, wide river.

The rerouting of the trail thru Duncannon is much ado about nothing, IMO. It's a choice of one long street or the other one right next to it. I presume the one that's currently chosen is a bit more residential and less commercial.

Besides, I can't imagine any sentient hiker is unaware of the existence of the Doyle by the time they walk into town from Springer or from Katahdin.

modiyooch
09-07-2008, 09:01
I agree with the above post as to why it is not routed. I walked the AT, but I also walked the 1 block(?) off the trail to Doyles. What I didn't like, was the non-hikers (transients?) on the level above. Doyles is a bar. I don't recommend routing woman hikers in front of a bar. It was broad daylight for me. I did go into the bar and have a drink, But I didn't like the audience that I had to pass outside.

Lyle
09-07-2008, 09:12
Personally, I enjoyed the walk through town on the residential street. Several of the homeowners were out doing yard work and all, at the very minimum, gave a friendly wave. Many actually said hello and wished me well. Gave me a warm feeling that the local homeowners welcomed the trail passing right in front of their homes.

I can see the argument for the trail being moved, but I guess I'm of the opinion that most hikers know what is available one block off the official route and if they want to partake, just walk one block over. Guess the only ones that it would really affect would be the purists who would consider this off-trail.

To my way of thinking, what difference does it make what road section you walk to join two actual trail sections. Guess I'll never actually hike the AT with an attitude like this. :D

modiyooch
09-07-2008, 09:26
Guess the only ones that it would really affect would be the purists who would consider this off-trail.


This is another concept that I don't understand. I consider myself a purist-that being I hike the white blazes. In my experience, I hiked the white blazes and then double back to hit Doyles. How does this affect purists, or be considered off-trail?

rafe
09-07-2008, 09:35
The Doyle is barely a block off the trail. It is closer to the trail than most trail shelters nowadays.

Most thru-hikers and section hikers are hyper-aware of off-trail services, such as stores, restaurants, pubs, etc. I can't imagine the Doyle losing a single hiker customer on the basis of their current location.

This can't be a "purism" issue. I mean, if someone is that intent to get to Katahdin that they can't abide a 200-foot detour in Pennsylvania... I dunno. It's beyond my comprehension, really.

The Old Fhart
09-07-2008, 09:37
Lyle-"Personally, I enjoyed the walk through town on the residential street...."And if the trail is moved one block you still will. The only difference is you'll also be walking past some of the facilities that hikers want or need. I've hiked or driven both routes and I would say there isn't much difference either way other than the services. The proposed route is a little less populated and passes a neat tower, as well as an Ebay drop-off store, if you're interested.:D

trailangelmary
09-07-2008, 09:50
It's a choice of one long street or the other one right next to it. I presume the one that's currently chosen is a bit more residential and less commercial.

This is correct.


Personally, I enjoyed the walk through town on the residential street. Several of the homeowners were out doing yard work and all, at the very minimum, gave a friendly wave. Many actually said hello and wished me well. Gave me a warm feeling that the local homeowners welcomed the trail passing right in front of their homes.

I can see the argument for the trail being moved, but I guess I'm of the opinion that most hikers know what is available one block off the official route and if they want to partake, just walk one block over.

This is also correct. And more homeowners are out on High St (white blazes) than Market St.where the post office, Doyle Hotel, Sorrentos, Zeiderelli's, The Pub, 3 B's Ice Cream, Sled Works are. Many hikers walk to the post office and 3B's if they are staying at the Doyle. Some walk the one block down and back up to High St to get ice cream at 3 B's on the way out of town. Some also stop for a beverage and lunch at the Doyle but don't stay overnight.

I received a letter from the SEDA - Council of Governments, Duncannon RE: Apple Tree Alleywalk Focus Group. Here is an excerpt:
" SEDA-Council of Governemnts has started work on master plan for development of the Apple Tree Alley Walk Project in Duncannon. This project will provide a dedicated pedestrian pathway along Apple Tree Alley between Fritz St and Noye Park. The Alley Walk is part of a larger proposal for development of the Susquehanna Greenway in Pennsylvania. "

Fritz St is at the north end of Duncannon and Noye Park is where the AT sign is at the south end of Duncannon. There is an alley between Market St and High St. Interesting!

Odd Thomas
09-07-2008, 11:15
If the trail can be rerouted when a bar asks, why not when a quarry asks? We want the businesses to work around the trail, not the other way around.

http://www.heartland.org/policybot/results.html?artId=9371

The bar could move to the trail far far cheaper than this quarry would cost to move away from it, but that's what happened, this quarry lost it's permit to protect the trail.

You start moving the trail because someone had a whim, and next time the quarry will just point out how the trail could simply be moved around where they happen to be already "just as easily as they did for that bar"

rafe
09-07-2008, 11:31
OddThomas: Interesting article from "Heartland." WB'ers reading this should bear in mind the article is from 2001, and that "Heartland Institute" is an industry lobbying organization, with a strong anti-environmental bent.

Pedaling Fool
09-07-2008, 11:34
Another reason why I'll never apply for my thru-hiker certificate. On this section I walked thru the town, not the AT.

fiddlehead
09-07-2008, 11:42
Skip the town and ford the Susky.

fiddlehead
09-07-2008, 11:43
Just kiddin!

Pedaling Fool
09-07-2008, 11:45
Who cares? I don't care if the AT goes through the town or not, I did, no backtracking. This crap of following every single whiteblaze is pathetic BS. I hope I didn't offend anyone:sun


What's the saying: HYOH, yeah right:rolleyes:

Gee, I hope I don't get fined by the AT police....


P.S. I will never apply for a thru-hiker's certificate.

rickb
09-07-2008, 12:00
Who cares? I don't care if the AT goes through the town or not, I did, no backtracking. This crap of following every single whiteblaze is pathetic BS.

I doubt if there is anyone on earth who really cares what you did.

On the other hand, I suspect that there are more than a few who are glad that there is an unbroken line of white blazes from Maine to Georgia.

Not sure why some think that AT hikers need help finding a bar or a post office in that stretch. The AT is already very much paint by numbers; does it need to be even more so? If one is unable to find a cold beer as they walk through that area on a hot day, they should not be allowed outside without supervision.

trailangelmary
09-07-2008, 12:09
This excerpt is from the article linked at the opening post on this thread

Michael Fedor, a borough councilman, said efforts are under way that could link the trail redirection idea to the borough's desire to turn a mile-long section of Apple Tree Alley, which runs behind Market Street businesses, into a walking trail and park.

This excerpt is from the longer version (http://www.pennlive.com/news/patriotnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1220737202110280.xml&coll=1) of the story.


Karen Lutz of the Appalachian Trail Conservancy in Boiling Springs said the organization is receptive to the idea, but rerouting the trail isn't as simple as putting up a new sign. Lutz said maps and trail guides would need to be updated if the idea is ultimately approved.

"We can't have people getting lost and wondering where the trail is supposed to be," Lutz said.

Guiding the trail through the borough would be nothing new, Lutz said. The trail goes through about two dozen towns along its route from Maine to Georgia.

No official request by Duncannon to reroute the trail has been made.

So, if these two ideas are merged into one the trail would not go by the businesses or on High St. but between them both, the back "yards".

Pedaling Fool
09-07-2008, 12:11
I doubt if there is anyone on earth who really cares what you did.
No, I've seen the expression (as if to say, "You're not following the whiteblazes...") of people's faces (on the AT) when I said something like: "I'm takin' this blueblaze to town..." The posts on here are just an extension of what I've experienced on the trail.

On the other hand, I suspect that there are more than a few who are glad that there is an unbroken line of white blazes from Maine to Georgia...
As for the people that are glad of their unbroken line, well I'm happy for them and don't really care, but many of them same people will critisize others who do the trail in an unbroken fashion, like if they do it as a speed attempt or slack-pack a certain amount or whatever...

I don't care how anyone hikes, but I'm sick of being looked down on because I take a blueblaze. This is a sick obsession with many in the AT community.

trailangelmary
09-07-2008, 12:12
Not sure why some think that AT hikers need help finding a bar or a post office in that stretch. The AT is already very much paint by numbers; does it need to be even more so? If one is unable to find a cold beer as they walk through that area on a hot day, they should not be allowed outside without supervision.

Good one!

ed bell
09-07-2008, 12:18
I just merged two threads here and for some reason the posts from the newer thread became #15 and #28. Strange.

Panzer1
09-07-2008, 13:53
Routing the trail down Market street past the Doyle is an obvious good idea.

But if they don't reroute the trail it won't make any real difference as the guide book I'm looking at, the companion, not only has a map of the trail thru Duncannon but it also has a blow up map that marks the location of the Doyle, Goodie's, ice cream store and all the other businesses that a hiker would want. As well as the hours of operation, cost, and other info about these businesses. I'm guessing the other guide books have simular information about thee town.

I don't know why the trail was routed down Hight street which is a back street. Maybe, many years ago when the trail first came thru town High street was a better way to go, maybe the Doyle was too expensive for hikers back in those days when the hotel was new and the town had a more robust economy. Maybe back then with their more victorian values, they didn't want to route femail hikers past a bar. Who knows.

Panzer

Jack Tarlin
09-07-2008, 14:02
Back when the hotel was new, Panzer?

That's pretty funny since when the Hotel was new, which was a century ago, the Trail wasn't there yet.

emerald
09-07-2008, 14:11
I don't care how anyone hikes, but I'm sick of being looked down on because I take a blueblaze. This is a sick obsession with many in the AT community.

Can't say I grasp what puirism and/or certification (ATC 2000 miler recognition) has to do with the route of the A.T. in Duncannon.

Maybe you shouldn't concern yourself so much with what others think. You likely won't change their minds, but you could change yours.

Pedaling Fool
09-07-2008, 14:17
Can't say I grasp what puirism and/or certification has to do with the route of the A.T. in Duncannon.

Maybe you shouldn't concern yourself so much with what others think. You likely won't change their minds, but you could change yours.
Maybe you shouldn't concern yourself so much with what I think.:rolleyes:

Sly
09-07-2008, 14:26
. I don't recommend routing woman hikers in front of a bar. It was broad daylight for me. I did go into the bar and have a drink, But I didn't like the audience that I had to pass outside.

I'm not sure about that argument. One cn always walk on the other side of the street. If there's any problems at least it's in public.

rafe
09-07-2008, 14:27
Can't say I grasp what puirism and/or certification has to do with the route of the A.T. in Duncannon.

I'm equally puzzled... :-? One can do the Doyle... and remain a purist. It will cost you an extra 0.15 miles of walking, at the outside. I don't get it.

Lyle
09-07-2008, 14:45
I'm equally puzzled... :-? One can do the Doyle... and remain a purist. It will cost you an extra 0.15 miles of walking, at the outside. I don't get it.


Ok, let me try to clarify what I meant in my post that started all this purist vs non-purist discussion.

I simply meant that with the present trail routing, a "purist" is required to hike the residential street in order to stay on the trail. I had suggested that if a hiker wanted to avail him/herself of all the establishments along the business district, they could just hike that street instead. In my mind it would make no difference, and I would still end up at the north end of town.

My position is leave the trail where it is. My point was that leaving the trail on the residential street would only really affect the purists who would be unwilling or reluctant to hike the main street as an alternative.

Never meant to trigger a debate or to imply that one or the other was better or impossible or would prevent a purist from remaining true to their hike. Just meant as an observation that it didn't really matter where the trail was officially, except to a relatively few hikers. The rest will just choose a route through and enjoy themselves doing it.

NICKTHEGREEK
09-07-2008, 15:03
I don't care how anyone hikes, but I'm sick of being looked down on because I take a blueblaze. This is a sick obsession with many in the AT community.
I wouldn't worry all that much about it, there's going to be someone looking down on you no matter what. Live your life and let the folks who don't have one wonder if you strayed off the path.

rafe
09-07-2008, 15:18
What's surreal about this discussion is that the "extra distance" involved is so trivial and insignificant. It's less than the distance that you need to go for water at most shelters in PA... and involves no vertical whatsoever.

Jim Adams
09-07-2008, 15:31
Routing the trail down Market street past the Doyle is an obvious good idea.

But if they don't reroute the trail it won't make any real difference as the guide book I'm looking at, the companion, not only has a map of the trail thru Duncannon but it also has a blow up map that marks the location of the Doyle, Goodie's, ice cream store and all the other businesses that a hiker would want. As well as the hours of operation, cost, and other info about these businesses. I'm guessing the other guide books have simular information about thee town.

I don't know why the trail was routed down Hight street which is a back street. Maybe, many years ago when the trail first came thru town High street was a better way to go, maybe the Doyle was too expensive for hikers back in those days when the hotel was new and the town had a more robust economy. Maybe back then with their more victorian values, they didn't want to route femail hikers past a bar. Who knows.

Panzer

Both walks are on a sidewalk through the community. I've done both and can't understand why it doesn't run past the businesses. It's not like the residential street has more to see or is prettier.
I may be wrong, I'll have to check my old Philosopher's Guide but I thought the AT did run down Market St. in 1990. Maybe not? I remained pure in 1990 (before I was educated) but I stayed at the Doyle and remember being in several downtown businesses. Of course I was younger then and walking for beer wasn't as strenuous as it is today.:D
I like the idea of fording the river to bypass town but then again......could you "legally" stay pure if you just paint a white blaze on the floor of a car and use the bridge?:D


geek

Jim Adams
09-07-2008, 15:33
Terrapin,
You still have your PG don't you? I'm at work and not home so mine isn't available to check the routing back then.

geek

emerald
09-07-2008, 15:41
I would be happy to walk whatever route Duncannon and ATC agree upon. It really makes no difference to me whatsoever. I'm not seeing how this issue bears on A.T. hikers significantly.

rafe
09-07-2008, 15:46
The Philosophers Guide ('90) shows the trail the same as it is now. Heading NOBO, the trail turns left just before the Doyle and heading northward on High St., past the fire station and the True Value. BTW, the street that the Doyle is on is labeled "Main St." (Not "Market St.") There's no mention of Goodies. In fact the text questions whether there's a proper breakfast place in town.

Boudin
09-07-2008, 16:36
Why not just paint blue blazes to the beer? That's the way it's done to every other watering hole.

Jim Adams
09-07-2008, 16:37
The Philosophers Guide ('90) shows the trail the same as it is now. Heading NOBO, the trail turns left just before the Doyle and heading northward on High St., past the fire station and the True Value. BTW, the street that the Doyle is on is labeled "Main St." (Not "Market St.") There's no mention of Goodies. In fact the text questions whether there's a proper breakfast place in town.

Cool!
I couldn't remember. I do know that I had something like 4 zero days there in '90. probably spent most of my walking time on Main St. hence the thought of the trail location.
Thanks Terrapin.

geek

The Old Fhart
09-07-2008, 18:08
Here are the maps from the 1990 PG and the 1989 PA guidebook.
47651989 guidebook
47641990 PG

The guidebook does correctly call the 'main' street Market Street. We all know how inaccurate those data books are.;)

SedentarySteve
09-07-2008, 18:28
Some Duncannon History re High St. PUD:
High Street used to traverse the entire borough. So did US 11 one block
to the east on Market Street. In 1964, US 11 was upgraded to expressway
status. Highway construction terminated High Street with a concrete
embankment supporting the new northbound entrance ramp. The white blazes
veered east toward the river by necessity. But why didn't the white
blazes continue directly north through town? The trail took the path of
least resistance. It was easier to blaze just the short distance from
the square one block west and utilize the existing white blazes north on
High Street. There were very few thru-hikers in the early 1960s and
probably even fewer maintenance crews. The path of least resistance
avoided painting over the High Street blazes and the burden of signing
new blazes the length of Market Street north.
[Please Scroll down to August 25, in URL below]
http://sedentarysteve.googlepages.com/august20-30

Alligator
09-07-2008, 19:46
Put a small kiosk/bulletin board with a real map on either end of town showing where the businesses are. I didn't have a town map with me when I went through and just strolled through the neighborhood until I got to The Doyle. If I had known I was a block or two over from an ice cream store I would have dropped a couple of extra bucks easy. It was hot.

A map would be easier than a reroute.

Wilson
09-07-2008, 20:04
Some Duncannon History re High St. PUD:
High Street used to traverse the entire borough. So did US 11 one block
to the east on Market Street. In 1964, US 11 was upgraded to expressway
status. Highway construction terminated High Street with a concrete
embankment supporting the new northbound entrance ramp. The white blazes
veered east toward the river by necessity. But why didn't the white
blazes continue directly north through town? The trail took the path of
least resistance. It was easier to blaze just the short distance from
the square one block west and utilize the existing white blazes north on
High Street. There were very few thru-hikers in the early 1960s and
probably even fewer maintenance crews. The path of least resistance
avoided painting over the High Street blazes and the burden of signing
new blazes the length of Market Street north.
[Please Scroll down to August 25, in URL below]
http://sedentarysteve.googlepages.com/august20-30
based on that, and looking at TOFs top map...High st. was a reroute and Market would have been the original route??

The Old Fhart
09-07-2008, 20:16
Alligator-"Put a small kiosk/bulletin board with a real map on either end of town showing where the businesses are..." From the 1989 guidebook: "...The Borough has posted a hiker facility map to accommodate hikers at either end of town, and a reproduction of this map is included in this guide immediately preceding this section." I don't recall seeing any maps at either end of town when I went thru twice but I did have the guidebook with the map.

Alligator
09-07-2008, 20:32
From the 1989 guidebook: "...The Borough has posted a hiker facility map to accommodate hikers at either end of town, and a reproduction of this map is included in this guide immediately preceding this section." I don't recall seeing any maps at either end of town when I went thru twice but I did have the guidebook with the map.I often have great ideas only to find out someone else has beat me to it:(.

I did not see one either though.

Panzer1
09-07-2008, 22:17
I found this about the Doyle (originally called the Johnson hotel). When it was built 1905, women had to use a separate entrance.

http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2005/05/08/business/busi01.txt

* Lettering over a street door still reads "Ladies Entrance" from the days when women didn't enter the tavern. The buzzer they used to call a bartender from the next room is still on the door frame.Panzer

SedentarySteve
09-07-2008, 22:51
based on that, and looking at TOFs top map...High st. was a reroute and Market would have been the original route??
TOF's top map was dated 1989, but the High St trail route prior to the 1964 highway construction/relocation had no need to utilize Market Street. Only after the new entrance ramp to go north on the new arterial concretely blocked the previous AT route from the Penn Twp/south end of Duncannon to High Street (over the historic, wooden Berlin type bridge), did the AT have to relocate by necessity and swerve to the right (east) crossing the small bridge over the Little Juniata Creek. The trail then entered Duncannon northbound on Market St for one block to the square (at Cumberland St.) and continued northbound as it does today. To wit, west one block from the square and north on High Street. I did not live in the Duncannon area at that time, but I do not believe the white blazes blessed Market Street until circa 1964.

Re map/informational signs requested in a couple posts. There are identical informational maps erected by the local Boy Scouts at both ends of Duncannon for the benefit of hikers. I have jpg's of both if it is necessary to upload them.

rafe
09-07-2008, 23:01
From the 1989 guidebook: "...The Borough has posted a hiker facility map to accommodate hikers at either end of town, and a reproduction of this map is included in this guide immediately preceding this section." I don't recall seeing any maps at either end of town when I went thru twice but I did have the guidebook with the map.

Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember seeing this as I entered town from the "north" end. Walking SOBO into Duncannon is a real tease.

ki0eh
09-08-2008, 07:59
Some Duncannon History re High St. PUD:
High Street used to traverse the entire borough.

Thanks for this information! Further proof that nonsense sometimes once made sense to someone!

Now, what does the purist do when the so-called "subway" (underpass for SR 0849 under Norfolk Southern between town proper and the Twin County Bridge) is closed due to flooding? :)

The Old Fhart
09-08-2008, 08:18
Speaking of the A.T. route thru Duncannon, you might find this photo of the Hon. D.K. Hoch, a hiker named Earl, and Murray Stevens at the dedication of a "new" bridge in Duncannon in 1955 interesting.
4767(click for larger image)

ki0eh
09-08-2008, 09:03
Speaking of the A.T. route thru Duncannon, you might find this photo of the Hon. D.K. Hoch, a hiker named Earl, and Murray Stevens at the dedication of a "new" bridge in Duncannon in 1955 interesting.


I do, thanks! Here's some more background that starts off explaining why the Trail came to be in Duncannon in the first place: http://www.satc-hike.org/history.htm
Edit: This club newsletter has more contemporaneous background and an announcement of the event where that photo was likely taken: http://www.satc-hike.org/bb2-1.pdf

mrc237
09-08-2008, 09:47
The Doyle is a classic and I would detour my hike any distance to visit Pat and Vickey. Classic folks good cooks and great bartenders.

warren doyle
09-08-2008, 10:39
Skip the town and ford the Susky.

In 1980, about six members of the AT Circle Expedition forded/swam the Susquehanna River at the Clarks Ferry Bridge without packs. (we walked back across the bridge to pick up our packs)

It was an exhilarating, memorable experience.

trailangelmary
09-08-2008, 11:01
Thanks Old Fhart & KiOeh. Good stuff

Newb
09-08-2008, 13:16
Bad idea! If anything, the trail (if possible) should be routed out of town.

Boo! Everyone flame him now he dared to break with the group!:D

minnesotasmith
09-08-2008, 13:20
Why not just put a large (hard to miss) sign up on a corner of the street the Doyle is on that crosses the AT route through Duncannon? The sign would read "Doyle Hotel 1 block" with a BIG arrow. Maybe add one for the PO as well. Problem solved.

Jack Tarlin
09-08-2008, 14:31
Smith:

Local signage would be nice but 99% of folks who enter the town from one end or the other via the Trail have one of the standard Trail guides......they already know about the Doyle and the Post Office, and their guidebooks contain detailed maps.

So missing signage isn't the issue.

Moving the Trail to North Main Street would simply make more sense, as the street is the heart of the community, as well as containing all sorts of places that present-day hikers have to go a bit out of their way for. If the Trail is going to leave the woods and mountains and go thru an actual town, and if hikers are going to use facilities and businesses in this town, then it sems to make sense to put the Trail in closer proximity to these businesses.

If there's anyone who doesn't want to be in town, or doesn't care for the Trail to being town (I thik Chief is the only one on the thread who's leaned this way), then they have an easy solution: Keep walking and get outta Dodge.

But for the folks who enjoy it when the Trail goes right thru the occasional community (Hot Springs, Damascus, Hanover, or Duncannon to name a few), it would seem to make more sense to put the Trail right past the places where hikers are likely to visit.

Moving the Trail one block over would not be hard; would make it more pleasant for hikers; would help local businesses; would make more folks in Duncannon realize that the hiker presence adds to communities and helps local small businesses; and in short, would make a lot of sense.

In short, it's an idea whose time is overdue.

Pedaling Fool
09-08-2008, 15:36
Yes, four pages on this simple subject is pathetically funny. Just walk the town, period. And if you're a purist, well you'll be backtracking (not much, but still backtracking).

This issue/obsession in the AT community of following/passing every single whiteblaze just makes me laugh. I just don't get it.

max patch
09-08-2008, 15:41
This issue/obsession in the AT community of following/passing every single whiteblaze just makes me laugh. I just don't get it.

Well, some people decide to leave their family and go without income for 6 months to hike the appalachian trail. I don't understand why some of these people don't end up doing what they set out to do and take shortcuts just to save a mile or so here and there.

Peaks
09-08-2008, 16:27
Yes, and I'd like to see the AT go through a few more towns. Two that come to mind real quick are Gorham and Monson.

Pedaling Fool
09-08-2008, 16:32
Yes, and I'd like to see the AT go through a few more towns. Two that come to mind real quick are Gorham and Monson.
There's a nice blueblaze in and out of Gorham, but you got to be a short-cutting low-life like me to do that:sun

minnesotasmith
09-08-2008, 16:43
Yes, and I'd like to see the AT go through a few more towns. Two that come to mind real quick are Gorham and Monson.

Waynesboro or Gatlinburg? ;)

Lone Wolf
09-08-2008, 16:58
Yes, and I'd like to see the AT go through a few more towns. Two that come to mind real quick are Gorham and Monson.

the AT USED to go thru both those towns

rafe
09-08-2008, 17:03
Yes, and I'd like to see the AT go through a few more towns. Two that come to mind real quick are Gorham and Monson.


I'd love to know the story of why the AT was relo'd out of Monson. Whatever, I blue-blazed into town on the "old" AT. I'd had a rough day on those %^@$+# PUDs along the river, my feet were all a-blistered, and was in a foul mood. That was before the electroshock and the lobotomy. I'm all better now.

Sly
09-08-2008, 17:06
Well, some people decide to leave their family and go without income for 6 months to hike the appalachian trail. I don't understand why some of these people don't end up doing what they set out to do and take shortcuts just to save a mile or so here and there.

I set out to have a good time. If it includes missing a mile or two no big deal.

Lone Wolf
09-08-2008, 18:19
I'd love to know the story of why the AT was relo'd out of Monson. Whatever, I blue-blazed into town on the "old" AT. I'd had a rough day on those %^@$+# PUDs along the river, my feet were all a-blistered, and was in a foul mood. That was before the electroshock and the lobotomy. I'm all better now.

in order to get federal funding the AT had to be taken off all roads where possible per order of the park service and forest service

rickb
09-08-2008, 18:31
the AT USED to go thru both those towns

It used to bypass Harpers Ferry.

Jack Tarlin
09-08-2008, 18:32
That's interesting Wolf, I didn't know that.

So where and how did it originally get across the Shenandoah and Potomac Rivers?

rickb
09-08-2008, 18:57
From 1936 to 1948 the AT went through Harpers Ferry, but hikers had to be polled across the Shenandoah in flat bottom punts.

For a while those choosing to go through HF had to walk over the Potomac on a RR bridge.

In 1948 the Trail was rerouted across Sandy Hook bridge. That's changed.

Now you just follow the usual white blazes over the rivers and thru town.

max patch
09-08-2008, 19:23
I'd love to know the story of why the AT was relo'd out of Monson. Whatever, I blue-blazed into town on the "old" AT.

When I thru'd the AT had been relo'd the year before and I didn't know it until I got to just outside Monson. Quite a disappointment to think you are going to hike into town and then realize you had a hitch or a road walk at what you thot was the end of the day.

The Old Fhart
09-08-2008, 19:28
From the 1931 ATC guidebook(1st ed.), "Paths Of The Blue Ridge" is this description of the A.T. around Harpers Ferry.

"The Appalachian Trail begins on highway on south bank of the Potomac River, .03 m. east of Shenandoah River toll-bridge (toll 5 cents). From the highway (0 mile) the Trail is a blazed line, climbing steeply over loose stones along east side of Chimney Rock, to intersect old road descending slope from the main ridge. A little to right of this intersection is Chimney Rock, where a fine view of Harpers Ferry and of the two rivers is obtained."
4773

rickb
09-08-2008, 19:38
The Shenandoah Bridge washed out in '36.

The Old Fhart
09-08-2008, 20:16
Rickb-"The Shenandoah Bridge washed out in '36."In my 1941 guidebook it says:


"By reason of the destruction of a part of the Canal bank and the former highway bridge by the Potomac River flood of 1936, the Trail connection between Weverton and Harpers Ferry is very much a problem at the present time. For 1/4 m. south of the bridges into Harpers Ferry, the former towpath has been destroyed. The marked continuous trail now follows the towpath west as far as it continues in good condition, then crosses the Canal and follows U.S. route 340." The route south up the ridge remains about the same. The better map in this guide shows the trail slightly different than I previously showed it so I have corrected the previous map.

Micky
09-08-2008, 21:40
I don't care exactly where every whiteblaze lays. I would just love to be able to hike to whole trail. I'm not much of a beer drinker but given the chance, I would buy everybody in the doyle a round if you could talk my wife into it and get me to the trail. Does anybody in Indiana hike?

the goat
09-10-2008, 09:45
i think the duncannon re-route is a great idea; i can't think of one reason why it shouldn't be done.

Lone Wolf
09-10-2008, 09:58
the route ain't broke so it don't need fixin'

Tin Man
09-10-2008, 10:02
the route ain't broke so it don't need fixin'

aren't we simply talking about ONE block??? people must have something more important to whine about

Lone Wolf
09-10-2008, 10:06
aren't we simply talking about ONE block??? people must have something more important to whine about

yup, 1 block. it's a non-issue.

Pedaling Fool
09-10-2008, 10:10
yup, 1 block. it's a non-issue.
One day I'm going to make a trip to Duncannon to hike that section; I feel as if I cheated myself of a pure AT experience:D

modiyooch
09-10-2008, 21:11
we purists walk further because we have to double back for a drink. no worries.

Panzer1
09-11-2008, 00:23
yup, 1 block. it's a non-issue.

But it gives us something to talk about..

Panzer

Peaks
09-11-2008, 08:08
There's a nice blueblaze in and out of Gorham, but you got to be a short-cutting low-life like me to do that:sun

Well, at least into town. Going out of town, the Mahoosic Trail is closed across the canal/dam.

Pedaling Fool
09-11-2008, 11:01
Well, at least into town. Going out of town, the Mahoosic Trail is closed across the canal/dam.
It was open last time I was there in Sept/Oct 2006. I do remember having a little problem staying on the Mahoosuc trail around the Dam/canal area. How long is that section of trail scheduled to be closed?

MOWGLI
09-11-2008, 11:11
I set out to have a good time. If it includes missing a mile or two no big deal.

Amen Brother!!

MOWGLI
09-11-2008, 11:14
the route ain't broke so it don't need fixin'

I happen to agree with this sentiment. Actually, I thought the trail did go by the Doyle. But I hiked through there 8+ years ago. Maybe I was on the wrong road, but it took me EXACTLY where I needed to go at the time.

the goat
09-11-2008, 14:00
I set out to have a good time. If it includes missing a mile or two no big deal.

nicely put. imo, there is no finer philosophy on long distance hiking.

Kirby
09-12-2008, 21:30
Oh yes... Duncannon, what a horrible town that was for me.

Don't get me wrong, the owners of the Doyle are amazing people and bent over backwards to help me quickly recover from food poisoning.

Goodies was amazing.

Does the Doyle archive all the photos they take somewhere? I noticed on their site that they only have recent photos, I was hoping to find mine. I rolled through in mid-may.

Kirby

trailangelmary
09-12-2008, 22:05
I happen to agree with this sentiment. Actually, I thought the trail did go by the Doyle. But I hiked through there 8+ years ago. Maybe I was on the wrong road, but it took me EXACTLY where I needed to go at the time.

Going north the trail turns up from Market to High St. 1/2 block from the Doyle.

MOWGLI
09-12-2008, 22:17
Going north the trail turns up from Market to High St. 1/2 block from the Doyle.

Thanks Mary. I recall walking pass the old Flexible Flyer plant on my way out of town - but that's about all.

bulldog49
09-14-2008, 13:28
Who cares? I don't care if the AT goes through the town or not, I did, no backtracking. This crap of following every single whiteblaze is pathetic BS. I hope I didn't offend anyone:sun


What's the saying: HYOH, yeah right:rolleyes:

Gee, I hope I don't get fined by the AT police....


P.S. I will never apply for a thru-hiker's certificate.

My feeling as well. I could care less about following every blaze.

Sly
09-14-2008, 13:35
Why was it a horrible town, Kirby?


Oh yes... Duncannon, what a horrible town that was for me.

Don't get me wrong, the owners of the Doyle are amazing people and bent over backwards to help me quickly recover from food poisoning.

Goodies was amazing.

Does the Doyle archive all the photos they take somewhere? I noticed on their site that they only have recent photos, I was hoping to find mine. I rolled through in mid-may.

Kirby

modiyooch
09-14-2008, 16:44
My feeling as well. I could care less about following every blaze.to each their own

modiyooch
09-14-2008, 16:51
Why was it a horrible town, Kirby? my guess is the food poisoning experience.

I hate to say this, but I have no intention of returning to that town. The man at Doyles was rude. I didn't care for him. The lady tending bar was nice.

ki0eh
09-14-2008, 21:02
Does the Doyle archive all the photos they take somewhere? I noticed on their site that they only have recent photos, I was hoping to find mine. I rolled through in mid-may.


As I recall they said they have hard copy in their books on site but very limited web space which is why they cycle through pixs very fast on their website.

ki0eh
10-17-2008, 08:46
Share your vision for a new walking path through Duncannon:

http://www.perryco.org/perry/lib/perry/alleywalk_single_flyer.doc

Gray Blazer
10-17-2008, 10:19
I found this about the Doyle (originally called the Johnson hotel). When it was built 1905, women had to use a separate entrance.

http://www.cumberlink.com/articles/2005/05/08/business/busi01.txt
Panzer

How 'bout during prohibition? Maybe there's a secret tunnel somewhere. That would make an interesting blue blaze.