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Tin Man
09-08-2008, 15:19
Smoking came up in the Doyle thread and it reminded me of an experience I had recently in the White Mtns. We arrived at Lake of the Clouds mid-day and as we celebrated our free time with a libation and a small cigar, we decided what the heck, Mt. Washington was clear, let's go. So we grabbed our water bottles and headed up. After an hour enjoying the views, we headed back to the Hut, relighting our cigars. Mind you, we aren't big smokers and only do so outdoors when no one is nearby. Well, out of the blue we hear someone yell, "I can smell that!" We turn around and this dude was 50 YARDS behind us. I shouted back, "if you think the cigar smells, come closer, we have a few days worth of smell you might enjoy more". We weren't close enough to recognize him at the Hut later, so we let it go, but man that frosted us.

MyName1sMud
09-08-2008, 15:25
that's messed up! I would of walked down there and blew some in his face... lol

just playing.

but no really. Why should that dude care what yall are doing? most of the AT hikers I have met while on trail are smoking something different than a cigar....

Tin Man
09-08-2008, 15:29
that's messed up! I would of walked down there and blew some in his face... lol

just playing.

but no really. Why should that dude care what yall are doing? most of the AT hikers I have met while on trail are smoking something different than a cigar....

The strange thing is the Mt. Washington Cog was making 1,000+ times the smoke and odor that we were. Some people got nothing better to do than whining about wanting their trail experience on their terms.

Sly
09-08-2008, 15:30
Sounds more like a complaint by one guy. Who said it was banned?

Tin Man
09-08-2008, 15:32
Sounds more like a complaint by one guy. Who said it was banned?

I may have exaggerated a little, but this guy made it SOUND like a ban.

MyName1sMud
09-08-2008, 15:33
Sounds more like a complaint by one guy. Who said it was banned?

Nice Abbey quote

jesse
09-08-2008, 15:37
... I shouted back, "if you think the cigar smells, come closer, we have a few days worth of smell you might enjoy more"...

Typical of the selfish rude behavior found in most smokers.

MyName1sMud
09-08-2008, 15:38
Typical of the selfish rude behavior found in most smokers.

*** how is that rude for the rude NON smoker from 50 yrds away complaining

Elmer
09-08-2008, 15:38
I smoke....not proud of it and getting the mindset to quit. I'm gonna quit for all the reasons that are gonna be coming up in the replies that follow this I'm sure. I do realize that it is an annoyance to others and that is the part that I hate the most. I'm not out to piss anyone off, that's why I'm the guy who goes for a solo stroll, out of sight and smell, to wrestle my vise.
BUT....if that guy was that distance away from you, there is a really good chance that he didn't smell it..(yeah yeah, maybe the wind was just right, and he just had his nose cleaned by a professional silia cleaner...blah blah)..he just saw it and thought "Ooooh, Ooooh, something to bitch about!"
A celebratory cigar is something that really should not be intruded on. That's my opinion...probably should keep my mouth shut....not sure.
Either way *click*

MyName1sMud
09-08-2008, 15:39
wait that made no sense... what I meant to say...

How is that rude?

and

typical of the selfish non-smoker behavior to complain about a smoker.

MyName1sMud
09-08-2008, 15:40
I smoke....not proud of it and getting the mindset to quit. I'm gonna quit for all the reasons that are gonna be coming up in the replies that follow this I'm sure. I do realize that it is an annoyance to others and that is the part that I hate the most. I'm not out to piss anyone off, that's why I'm the guy who goes for a solo stroll, out of sight and smell, to wrestle my vise.
BUT....if that guy was that distance away from you, there is a really good chance that he didn't smell it..(yeah yeah, maybe the wind was just right, and he just had his nose cleaned by a professional silia cleaner...blah blah)..he just saw it and thought "Ooooh, Ooooh, something to bitch about!"
A celebratory cigar is something that really should not be intruded on. That's my opinion...probably should keep my mouth shut....not sure.
Either way *click*

I agree!:D:D:cool:

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 15:42
I would have shouted something obscene back like "So does your Preperation H but I didn't mention it"

I used to be a heavy cigarette smoker so I remember getting the comments everywhere about how it smelled, Although as a non-smoker now I know what people were talking about, but if it bothers you, walk away...plus "camper smell" is much worse than the sweet smell of some good 'baccy:D

Elmer
09-08-2008, 15:44
[quote=Homer&Marje;694291]I would have shouted something obscene back like "So does your Preperation H but I didn't mention it"

BWAAAHHHAAAAHHHHAAAAAHHHHAAAAA :clap
That's the best one I've read yet!!!!

Tin Man
09-08-2008, 15:46
I am not a "smoker" per se. I have less than 10 cigars a year, all outdoors, all out of range, or so I thought, of others. The whiner is the one with issues, not me.

And this "cigar" was about the a half size larger than a cigarette. Guess size doesn't matter.

MyName1sMud
09-08-2008, 15:47
Truth be told Homer

minnesotasmith
09-08-2008, 15:47
Just smoke at home, when on your own property?

Tin Man
09-08-2008, 15:48
...plus "camper smell" is much worse than the sweet smell of some good 'baccy:D

Our thoughts exactly. In fact, my brother and I like being around each other more after a cigar than before.

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 15:48
You see. In any argument you have to go to the heart of the problem. Obviously the gentleman was uptight because of his hemorrhoids. I would be too. Maybe the cigar smell made his tiny little nose pucker so much that his butt cheeks clinched, thus causing him severe discomfort.

If your gonna win a battle of wits and words, it's necessary to get the last word. Leaving them dumbfounded is the quickest way:D

rafe
09-08-2008, 15:49
The whiner is the one with issues, not me.

Did he start a thread on an internet forum about his mis-treatment? :-?

Tin Man
09-08-2008, 15:52
Just smoke at home, when on your own property?

I don't smoke in front of my kids.

I only smoke when I am outside doing something I enjoy, like hiking or golf. It is a celebration smoke involving me, a cigar, and the great outdoors. I don't smoke in a crowded campsite, only when I think I am alone. 50 yards distance is about as alone as it gets in the Whites.

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 15:52
Our thoughts exactly. In fact, my brother and I like being around each other more after a cigar than before.

Oh for sure, I still enjoy a few victory cigars per year as fore mentioned, and the cigar you are talking about, probably a swisher sweet? Black and Mild? something of that sort, doesn't smell bad at all and definitely makes you smell better than a week in the Whites.

Next time, take off your shorts and undies in the middle of the trail and blow the smoke through them as he approaches, ask if it helps to filter it for him:D

If you don't catch an indecency charge it would be funny without recourse:D

Tin Man
09-08-2008, 16:02
Oh for sure, I still enjoy a few victory cigars per year as fore mentioned, and the cigar you are talking about, probably a swisher sweet? Black and Mild? something of that sort, doesn't smell bad at all and definitely makes you smell better than a week in the Whites.

Swisher sweets? Aagh. I said small CIGAR. Macanudo Ascots, 10 per tin.

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 16:09
just making a size comparison to twice the size of the cigarette. Personally I don't like the small cigars anymore... When I was in Paris I was spoiled with some good cuban cigars... damn trade restrictions.

Heres a nice sight for the cigar enthusiast.

http://www.famous-smoke.com/cigars (http://www.famous-smoke.com/cigars/images/icons/camera.gif)

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 16:10
That went a little aflooey

http://www.famous-smoke.com/cigars/search/sr.cfm?st=wk&on=sale

MyName1sMud
09-08-2008, 17:05
Did he start a thread on an internet forum about his mis-treatment? :-?

:-? Did you have to come in and post that?:-?

MyName1sMud
09-08-2008, 17:06
just making a size comparison to twice the size of the cigarette. Personally I don't like the small cigars anymore... When I was in Paris I was spoiled with some good cuban cigars... damn trade restrictions.

Heres a nice sight for the cigar enthusiast.

http://www.famous-smoke.com/cigars (http://www.famous-smoke.com/cigars/images/icons/camera.gif)

I was lucky enough to try a cuban one time.... FINE FINE cigars

Sly
09-08-2008, 17:09
Did he start a thread on an internet forum about his mis-treatment? :-?

He very well may have. MS and Jesse are yapping away about smokers

bfitz
09-08-2008, 17:20
Smoking banned in the White Mtns!That's funny.

Captn
09-08-2008, 17:24
Typical of the selfish rude behavior found in most smokers.

I don't get it .... everyone who writes that they smoke a cigar, or cigarettes, etc are always so apologetic in their posts.


I only smoke here or I only smoke there, etc .... I'm careful not to do this.

Well, I'm not apologizing ..... If I take care to remove myself from the group, I'll smoke if I want to.

This is typical behavior of selfish rude Anti-smoking Nazi's who's only care is to legislate or dictate everyone else's behavior based on their own personal preferences.

Quit apologizing people.

If they don't like it, especially when you've taken extrordinary steps to ensure that your enjoyment doesn't infringe on anyone else, then they can stuff it.

You have a RIGHT to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness ... let the Nazi's B,,tch all they want.

At least you have this right until this becomes the Sociallist Republic of America, which if you keep apologizing for expressing the freedoms granted you by the constitution ..... may be sooner than you think.

Rant over.

sasquatch2014
09-08-2008, 17:47
just making a size comparison to twice the size of the cigarette. Personally I don't like the small cigars anymore... When I was in Paris I was spoiled with some good cuban cigars... damn trade restrictions.

Heres a nice sight for the cigar enthusiast.

http://www.famous-smoke.com/cigars (http://www.famous-smoke.com/cigars/images/icons/camera.gif)

Thank God for the internet. Try www.topcubans.com you will be surprised.

NICKTHEGREEK
09-08-2008, 17:59
I would have shouted something obscene back like "So does your Preperation H but I didn't mention it"

I used to be a heavy cigarette smoker so I remember getting the comments everywhere about how it smelled, Although as a non-smoker now I know what people were talking about, but if it bothers you, walk away...plus "camper smell" is much worse than the sweet smell of some good 'baccy:D
That might have implied you were sniffing his a$$ since that's where the product is used. Good that you kept that clever retort to yourself;)

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 19:45
That might have implied you were sniffing his a$$ since that's where the product is used. Good that you kept that clever retort to yourself;)

If a cigar can be smelled from 50 yards, so can your butt meds. Notably, there was probably a misconception from both sides from the beginning...


Gentleman smoking small style cigar with flavorful aroma 50 yds away.

Frequent drug use of a "particular manner" quite prevalent on the trail.

Gentleman from far away misconceives smells/perspective from and of the aforementioned small cigar and says " I can smell that".

Maybe, just maybe he thought that the particular party in question holding the cigar might in fact be participating in nefarious activities, rather than just the common and, again, aforementioned small cigar/victory cigar.

Lotta paranoid people out there:D

No animals were harmed in this post.

Odd Thomas
09-08-2008, 19:53
I may have exaggerated a little, but this guy made it SOUND like a ban.

He was 50 yards away, maybe he said it like that cause it smelled a little like something else?

WetBottom
09-08-2008, 19:59
Homer&Marje- My assumptions were the same as yours upon reading the story.

I bet the man thought he caught someone breakin' the law.

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 20:02
Vigilantism has gotten way out of control, don't you think:D

Does anyone carry handcuffs with them on the trail? Seems like unnecessary weight:rolleyes:

WetBottom
09-08-2008, 20:04
Unnecessary weight? But I can think of so many uses for the handcuffs... it would only BEGIN with citizens arrest. :)

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 20:07
Unnecessary weight? But I can think of so many uses for the handcuffs... it would only BEGIN with citizens arrest. :)

Yep, she's from Boston baby... wicked pissah

Tin Man
09-08-2008, 20:35
He was 50 yards away, maybe he said it like that cause it smelled a little like something else?

Didn't even cross my mind. From what I recall, the smell isn't remotely similar.

Homer&Marje
09-08-2008, 21:01
Didn't even cross my mind. From what I recall, the smell isn't remotely similar.

Not remotely similar but often misconstrued. We all are stupid in 75% of the world, what we think, isn't always true. That said i will reiterate someones personal quote

"The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know."

rickb
09-08-2008, 21:11
Not remotely similar but often misconstrued. We all are stupid in 75% of the world, what we think, isn't always true. That said i will reiterate someones personal quote

"The more I learn, the more I realize I don't know."

Being subjected to cigar smoke is like being subjected to a crying baby. It sucks less when the source is farther away, but its never what you want to find in the back country, no matter how far away.

But like with a crying baby, not much you can do about it. Best to keep you mount shut. As such, neither intrusion can be compared to that of a saxophone which compels a more aggressive response, regardless of the distance.

Tin Man
09-08-2008, 21:20
Being subjected to cigar smoke is like being subjected to a crying baby. It sucks less when the source is farther away, but its never what you want to find in the back country, no matter how far away.

We truly try to avoid it impacting anyone else's experience. The funny thing is the cog smell rolled in now and then and it was much stronger than any cigar.


But like with a crying baby, not much you can do about it. Best to keep you mount shut. As such, neither intrusion can be compared to that of a saxophone which compels a more aggressive response, regardless of the distance.

I would listen to Clarence Clemons anywhere anytime.

rickb
09-08-2008, 21:47
We truly try to avoid it impacting anyone else's experience.

No doubt. The guy should have kept his thoughts to himself. Some people think they own the woods.

River Runner
09-09-2008, 00:16
Tin Man,

Thank you for being considerate in the outdoors and not smoking when others are nearby. It is amazing how many smokers are not as considerate.

Sorry you had the bad experience, but don't let it get you down. I think
we've all had those moments when some stranger criticizes us for something that doesn't amount to anything important. Sometimes it stings, but I still think the best thing to do is just ignore it.

Jim Adams
09-09-2008, 00:43
I quit smoking cigarettes, cigars and my pipe 3 years ago but I had 2 similar situations from others and both times in the Whites!

I was at the shelter coming down off of Moosilauke and sitting about 75' to 100' away smoking a cigarette when a hiker came to the shelter and spied me smoking. He immediately started to yell at me that I was so inconsiderate of others by smoking and that I better not even think about smoking in the shelter. Then he started a fire in the fire pit in front of the shelter and smoked everyone out.
A few days later at a hut I had the same thing happen only I was even further away. This time I was lectured about how bad smoking was for my health. The woman couldn't grasp the thought that I was in very good conditioning due to hiking there from Georgia. She was huffing and puffing climbing the mountain the next morning and was totally appalled as I flew past her up the mountain...I made sure that I was sitting at the summit smoking when she finally arrived.

geek

Sly
09-09-2008, 01:36
She was huffing and puffing climbing the mountain the next morning and was totally appalled as I flew past her up the mountain...I made sure that I was sitting at the summit smoking when she finally arrived.

geek

LOL... I love doing that!

Homer&Marje
09-09-2008, 08:10
I quit smoking cigarettes, cigars and my pipe 3 years ago but I had 2 similar situations from others and both times in the Whites!

I was at the shelter coming down off of Moosilauke and sitting about 75' to 100' away smoking a cigarette when a hiker came to the shelter and spied me smoking. He immediately started to yell at me that I was so inconsiderate of others by smoking and that I better not even think about smoking in the shelter. Then he started a fire in the fire pit in front of the shelter and smoked everyone out.
A few days later at a hut I had the same thing happen only I was even further away. This time I was lectured about how bad smoking was for my health. The woman couldn't grasp the thought that I was in very good conditioning due to hiking there from Georgia. She was huffing and puffing climbing the mountain the next morning and was totally appalled as I flew past her up the mountain...I made sure that I was sitting at the summit smoking when she finally arrived.

geek

Silence is golden. But Duct Tape is silver.:D I don't let strangers lecture me, for that matter I let not many people lecture me... my mother, my boss (at times) and... that is it.

What happened to our freedom of expression in this country. If either one of those incidents happened to me ( I don't smoke anymore so it probably won't though) I would have a very hard time not "silencing" the complaining party. Is that me being to angry? I really find this to be an invasion of your personal space. If you hang out near everyone with a cigarette waving 2 inches from my face, i would even say something, but to be, down the trail or 50 to 100 feet away, do whatever you want! If I don't like it I won't watch, nor will I complain.

So everyone out there who feels the need to verbally express themselves in complaint form due to someone elses personal choices, take a look into yourself first, say " What are my flaws, why am I complaining about someone else in attempt to stop the action that they are pursuing when in actuality all that comes out is a shrill shrieking cry for attention because I am a barren bitch." crying should ensue.

bfitz
09-09-2008, 11:23
Oh man I just love running into those people.

TJ aka Teej
09-09-2008, 11:27
... because all smoking should be banned everywhere.
Why should anyone have to witness someone else's slow suicide?

max patch
09-09-2008, 11:28
The smoking lounge is on the blue blazes. :)

MyName1sMud
09-09-2008, 11:38
Wow this thread really did take off

Pedaling Fool
09-09-2008, 11:44
... because all smoking should be banned everywhere.
Why should anyone have to witness someone else's slow suicide?
Should alcohol also be banned? Yes many drink responsibly, but there are many chronic alcoholics and what about the number of college kids that drink themselves to death or the number of DUI offenses, many of which result in death to innocent motorist, including children. Shouldn't we outlaw alcohol.

minnesotasmith
09-09-2008, 12:06
Some people think they own the woods.

Like people who smoke on property not their own, where people with as much right to be there as they do, might be affected against their will by their pollution.

Captn
09-09-2008, 12:42
... because all smoking should be banned everywhere.
Why should anyone have to witness someone else's slow suicide?


Well ... thanks for making that decision for the rest of us, especially since your opinion is so much more important than everyone elses ....

bloodmountainman
09-09-2008, 12:50
... because all smoking should be banned everywhere.
Why should anyone have to witness someone else's slow suicide?
Making stupid judgements on other people's habit should be banned everywhere.
Why should anyone have to witness someone else's self- righteosness

Jim Adams
09-09-2008, 13:01
...
Why should anyone have to witness someone else's slow suicide?

TJ,
I know people that feel that way about hiking and hikers.:mad:
No one is making you watch.

geek

The Old Fhart
09-09-2008, 14:05
Jim Adams-"...No one is making you watch."...but you still have to listen to them hacking up a lung coughing.;)

Tin Man
09-09-2008, 14:13
...but you still have to listen to them hacking up a lung coughing.;)

A few years agao, a friend of mine who smokes, asked another smoker why he was smoking non-filters. His response was, "everbody has to die of something." Guess he picked his poison and was sticking to it.

Captn
09-09-2008, 14:29
Each cigarette you smoke takes 7 minutes off your life ...

Gee .... 7 fewer minutes spent drooling on myself while I wait for someone to come change my depends.

Tough choice

smokymtnsteve
09-09-2008, 14:32
PLEASE STAND FOR THE GOSPEL OF ABBEY!

"The rebel is doomed to a violent death. The rest of you can look forward to sedated expiration in a coma inside an oxygen tent, with tubes inserted in every bodily orifice."

THANKS BE TO ABBEY!

Alligator
09-09-2008, 14:40
Each cigarette you smoke takes 7 minutes off your life ...

Gee .... 7 fewer minutes spent drooling on myself while I wait for someone to come change my depends.

Tough choiceWho's to say it comes off the end of your life? It could be seven minutes of hiking time:-?...
7X20=140minutes/pack=2.33 hrs./pack=23.33hrs/carton=1 day hiking/carton.

It's your choice though:cool:.

bfitz
09-09-2008, 15:00
Like people who smoke on property not their own, where people with as much right to be there as they do, might be affected against their will by their pollution.If you were close enough to be "affected by my pollution" outdoors, you'd have more than one problem.:rolleyes:

Pedaling Fool
09-09-2008, 15:39
... because all smoking should be banned everywhere.
Why should anyone have to witness someone else's slow suicide?
This happens everyday, so we should ban alcohol. Why should anyone have to be killed by a drunk. (http://www.wsls.com/sls/news/local/new_river_valley/article/police_dui_driver_hits_two_pedestrians_overnight_i n_blacksburg/16991/)

Homer&Marje
09-09-2008, 15:48
Should alcohol also be banned? Yes many drink responsibly, but there are many chronic alcoholics and what about the number of college kids that drink themselves to death or the number of DUI offenses, many of which result in death to innocent motorist, including children. Shouldn't we outlaw alcohol.


Alcohol isn't banned because too much revenue comes from DUI arrests in this country. These numbers are not accurate, but for approximately a $2 per person per year increase in taxes, the federal government could afford to install ignition lock breathalizers in every car, making them inoperable after a certain point.

Average town in the Massachusetts alone has 2 alcohol 24D program centers with an average of 3 classes per day with an average of 14 people per class.

The 24D program is what you get sent to if you get caught drunk driving, for those that don't know. Cost of the class is $567.22 and going up annually. The class lasts 4 months, so 16 weeks 16 classes.

2 Program centers X 21 classes a week X 84 people (total between the classes avg. ) X 3 times the program is run (every 4 months or so but it staggers so the number is probably more) X 351 cities and towns in Massachusetts

2x21x84x3x351= $3,714,984 in state revenue brought in weekly just from drunk driving first offenses.

These numbers do not even include, thousands in court fines, lawyer fees, license reinstatement fees, restitution fees, probation fees etc... all of which is STATE EARNED REVENUE. Basically it boils down to, the safer the roads are, the more money the state will have to take from us in order to compensate for lack of funds. They figure let the small bunch of idiots pay the money and risk their own lives.

It's like the border problem. If we wanted to stop it, we would have 20 years ago, some things in the eyes of the big wigs are "Justifiable risks"

That's like, over 200 million dollars a year in state revenue from drunk driving... across the US those numbers have to be staggering. Messed up man... it's messed up.

Tin Man
09-09-2008, 15:56
Alcohol isn't banned because too much revenue comes from DUI arrests in this country. These numbers are not accurate, but for approximately a $2 per person per year increase in taxes, the federal government could afford to install ignition lock breathalizers in every car, making them inoperable after a certain point.

Average town in the Massachusetts alone has 2 alcohol 24D program centers with an average of 3 classes per day with an average of 14 people per class.

The 24D program is what you get sent to if you get caught drunk driving, for those that don't know. Cost of the class is $567.22 and going up annually. The class lasts 4 months, so 16 weeks 16 classes.

2 Program centers X 21 classes a week X 84 people (total between the classes avg. ) X 3 times the program is run (every 4 months or so but it staggers so the number is probably more) X 351 cities and towns in Massachusetts

2x21x84x3x351= $3,714,984 in state revenue brought in weekly just from drunk driving first offenses.

These numbers do not even include, thousands in court fines, lawyer fees, license reinstatement fees, restitution fees, probation fees etc... all of which is STATE EARNED REVENUE. Basically it boils down to, the safer the roads are, the more money the state will have to take from us in order to compensate for lack of funds. They figure let the small bunch of idiots pay the money and risk their own lives.

It's like the border problem. If we wanted to stop it, we would have 20 years ago, some things in the eyes of the big wigs are "Justifiable risks"

That's like, over 200 million dollars a year in state revenue from drunk driving... across the US those numbers have to be staggering. Messed up man... it's messed up.

Yeah... that's why alcohol isn't banned... state revenue... yeah.... :rolleyes:

Jack Tarlin
09-09-2008, 15:59
There are any number of reasons alcohol isn't banned.

We tried it before in the twenties.

It didn't work, and the end result was the rise of violent criminal networks that have survived to this day, and among the things they control are the narcotics industry.

Evil flourishes under repression. Bringing back prohibition would create more problems than it would solve.

rafe
09-09-2008, 16:06
I agree, Jack. Now apply the same logic to weed, and we'd all be happy.

Homer&Marje
09-09-2008, 16:07
Never said prohibition was a good idea. I said breathalizers in cars are a good idea.

Now, with that, I also stated a financial reason why alcohol "won't be banned. Nor do I believe that it should be banned.

Life in moderation, which in this case was a cigar if I remember. As a whole our country consumes "everything" in greater quantities "per person avg" than any other country. Except for things like Yak meat... someones got us beat.

Pedaling Fool
09-09-2008, 16:10
There are any number of reasons alcohol isn't banned.

We tried it before in the twenties.

It didn't work, and the end result was the rise of violent criminal networks that have survived to this day, and among the things they control are the narcotics industry.

Evil flourishes under repression. Bringing back prohibition would create more problems than it would solve.
I agree 100%. I also think we should decriminalize drugs. How many violent crimes are a result of the underground drug industry, how many druggies are in our prison system wasting tax payer money.

Drug prevention should be through education, not the justice system. People are not as dumb as they seem, afterall why is smoking cigs on the decline.

twosticks
09-09-2008, 16:17
Back to the original post, smoke your cigar. I know I will.

Tin Man
09-09-2008, 16:19
Back to the original post, smoke your cigar. I know I will.

Thanks. We did.

bfitz
09-09-2008, 17:57
Laws=oppression. I do as I please, and take responsibility for my own actions. Never wasted any time considering the ethics of following some silly rule I didn't agree with or a ridiculous and unjust law. Oh yeah, and no harm=no foul.

Homer&Marje
09-09-2008, 18:00
Laws=oppression. I do as I please, and take responsibility for my own actions. Never wasted any time considering the ethics of following some silly rule I didn't agree with or a ridiculous and unjust law. Oh yeah, and no harm=no foul.

Yep... and no blood=no jury:D

ed bell
09-09-2008, 20:48
Alcohol isn't banned because too much revenue comes from DUI arrests in this country. These numbers are not accurate, but for approximately a $2 per person per year increase in taxes, the federal government could afford to install ignition lock breathalizers in every car, making them inoperable after a certain point.

Average town in the Massachusetts alone has 2 alcohol 24D program centers with an average of 3 classes per day with an average of 14 people per class.

The 24D program is what you get sent to if you get caught drunk driving, for those that don't know. Cost of the class is $567.22 and going up annually. The class lasts 4 months, so 16 weeks 16 classes.

2 Program centers X 21 classes a week X 84 people (total between the classes avg. ) X 3 times the program is run (every 4 months or so but it staggers so the number is probably more) X 351 cities and towns in Massachusetts

2x21x84x3x351= $3,714,984 in state revenue brought in weekly just from drunk driving first offenses.

These numbers do not even include, thousands in court fines, lawyer fees, license reinstatement fees, restitution fees, probation fees etc... all of which is STATE EARNED REVENUE. Basically it boils down to, the safer the roads are, the more money the state will have to take from us in order to compensate for lack of funds. They figure let the small bunch of idiots pay the money and risk their own lives.

It's like the border problem. If we wanted to stop it, we would have 20 years ago, some things in the eyes of the big wigs are "Justifiable risks"

That's like, over 200 million dollars a year in state revenue from drunk driving... across the US those numbers have to be staggering. Messed up man... it's messed up.The length of your post indicates you are serious about this. I can't believe it. You are saying that government regards DUI's as a revenue source and will act to protect that revenue. Have you been drinking?

Homer&Marje
09-09-2008, 21:02
The length of your post indicates you are serious about this. I can't believe it. You are saying that government regards DUI's as a revenue source and will act to protect that revenue. Have you been drinking?

Not when I posted that. 'Tis simply true.

Tin Man
09-09-2008, 21:05
Not when I posted that. 'Tis simply true.

Perhaps you need to cut back on the government conspiracy newsletters. :-?

Tin Man
09-09-2008, 21:06
If you were close enough to be "affected by my pollution" outdoors, you'd have more than one problem.:rolleyes:

What do you reckon is a safe distance from him... two, maybe three days?

Panzer1
09-09-2008, 21:09
The first thing mankind did when he became civilized was to brew alcohol.

Some even say the the reason mankind stopped "hunting and gathering" was so that he could brew alcohol.

Panzer

ed bell
09-09-2008, 21:15
Not when I posted that. 'Tis simply true.So what is your excuse for posting #63?:-?

Tin Man
09-09-2008, 21:15
The first thing mankind did when he became civilized was to brew alcohol.

Some even say the the reason mankind stopped "hunting and gathering" was so that he could brew alcohol.

Panzer

Must not have been very good, otherwise it would be known as the oldest profession. ;)

Gray Blazer
09-09-2008, 21:29
Was that in Milwaukee?

Skidsteer
09-09-2008, 21:32
The first thing mankind did when he became civilized was to brew alcohol.

Some even say the the reason mankind stopped "hunting and gathering" was so that he could brew alcohol.

Panzer

Brew. Like on purpose?

I always figured somebody forgot where they left the grape juice for a few weeks and became the tribal hero when they finally found it.

Tin Man
09-09-2008, 21:38
Brew. Like on purpose?

I always figured somebody forgot where they left the grape juice for a few weeks and became the tribal hero when they finally found it.

Nah, they discovered fire made food taste better and were experimenting with different ingredients and methods. Some guys named Barley and Hops stumbled upon the perfect combination.

Panzer1
09-09-2008, 21:42
Must not have been very good, otherwise it would be known as the oldest profession. ;)

Well.. yea, that too.

Panzer

Homer&Marje
09-09-2008, 21:43
So what is your excuse for posting #63?:-?

I got a DUI and saw how screwed up the program is. I am not proud of it, but what I learned from it was invaluable in different ways.

Go sit in a room with all walks of life forced into a miserable situation that they don't want to be in, charge them money for it, hold it against them if they don't go, and restrict them while they are there.

And my math just for reference, was not accurate, but the numbers are staggering how much revenue is brought in.. and I believe my estimates were low.

I am also saying a lot of things in this country are swept under the rug... and believe it or not we are not always the most moral country in the world.

The amount of drunk driving fatalities has fallen 38 % in the last 25 years, but the number of drunk driving accidents has not fallen by nearly as much in the same amount of time. The increased safety of vehicles over the last 25 years has risen some 200 %

rafe
09-09-2008, 21:52
Homer, I figured you'd appreciate this poster. Swiped off the wall of a hotel lobby in Peabody, MA. Note who was governor at the time. :D

http://www.terrapinphoto.com/six_months_web2.jpg

littlebill31
09-09-2008, 21:55
I don't smoke ,but say and smelled the vomit from a guy at a shelter from drinking too much.Rather smell smoke and BO then watch a guy vomit. Everyone had to move from the shelter

Homer&Marje
09-10-2008, 07:16
Geez, who could forget good ol' Dukakis. That was about the same material I saw in the 24D program

No lie, I yelled at the "instructor" because the material that we were going over, statistics and all that, the NEWEST piece of material, movie or printed info was from 1998. 10 years old! Millions being brought into the state in revenue, no major changes have been made.

Mind you, MADD started their organization in 1981, year I was born and there were 21000 + drunk driving deaths that year. 1998 there were 18000. 19 years of service and they did almost nothing. Still haven't done much, in fact one of MADD's founding members got arrested 1 year ago for drunk driving, now isn't that a good waste of money.

Sorry to Tin Man who started this thread about the cigar, I am just saying that our civil liberties are being taken 1 by 1. Pretty soon so many will be offended by that cigar, you might have to smoke it inside strapped to your couch with a seatbelt and a fire extinguisher :-?

TJ aka Teej
09-10-2008, 07:25
Sorry to Tin Man who started this thread about the cigar, I am just saying that our civil liberties are being taken 1 by 1.

Driving drunk is a "civil liberty"?

Homer&Marje
09-10-2008, 07:28
This is funny. I googled Drunk driving and State revenue, I got a link to THIS THREAD and wouldn't you know it MY OWN POST:D hahahahhahaha

rafe
09-10-2008, 07:49
Sorry to Tin Man who started this thread about the cigar, I am just saying that our civil liberties are being taken 1 by 1.

I wouldn't disagree, but I think you picked an odd example. ;)

Gray Blazer
09-10-2008, 07:54
This is funny. I googled Drunk driving and State revenue, I got a link to THIS THREAD and wouldn't you know it MY OWN POST:D hahahahhahaha
Red Flag.

Homer&Marje
09-10-2008, 08:11
Driving drunk is a "civil liberty"?

No no no, This all started about the cigar, someone brought up the banning of alcohol... ban cigarettes, ban alcohol, invasion of civil liberties.

I unfortunately got myself started on how one of the huge reasons alcohol won't be banned is simply due to how much revenue comes off of the ADVERSE affects it can have.

rafe
09-10-2008, 08:15
I unfortunately got myself started on how one of the huge reasons alcohol won't be banned is simply due to how much revenue comes off of the ADVERSE affects it can have.

The other reason alcohol won't be banned is that taxing it produces huge revenues. Plus, a repressive government likes a stupid, apathetic citizenry.

superman
09-10-2008, 08:22
It falls under the heading of change. My parents owned a bar in the 50s. When patrons left the bar and wound up in a ditch on the way home. A cop would ask where he was drinking and bring him back to the bar. My dad would give the cop a free beer and the cop would stand there, on duty, in uniform and down the beer. We went to the funeral of patrons about once a month who died in DUI car accidents or alcohol related health conditions. After the funeral everyone would go back to the bar and get drunk. There were no seat belts, not as many people or cars on the road...attitudes were completely different then.
Smoking was the norm back in the 50s. Smokers considered it their right to smoke any place, any time. Bars, planes, public meeting were always thick with smoke. People didn't live as long for lots of reason but cancer from smoking wasn't the big issue that it is today. I smoked for 35 years and regret ever starting. I didn't quit because of medical reasons. I quit to be a better example for my sons.
My point is that things change. Like thru hiking...those who adapt will prevail. Adapt and over come. It's not just a military or thru hiker lesson, it's a life lesson.

Homer&Marje
09-10-2008, 08:27
The other reason alcohol won't be banned is that taxing it produces huge revenues. Plus, a repressive government likes a stupid, apathetic citizenry.

We are much easier to deal with that way:D


And I thought I mentioned the tax issue, maybe not... But if you do the math at an average of $3000 dollars (total fines and all) average for first offense DUI's in Mass, Multiply it by the number of arrests... figure in 50% of those will be second offenders and 30% of the original numbers will get 3rd offenses. We are talking BILLIONS nationwide. For a small increase in taxes we could install breathalizers in peoples cars, but it takes away our civil liberty to be responsible, on our own.

Pedaling Fool
09-10-2008, 09:04
You guys are starting to sound like paranoid conspiracy nuts, with homer leading the pack. Go take a hike.:sun

Tin Man
09-10-2008, 09:16
You guys are starting to sound like paranoid conspiracy nuts, with homer leading the pack. Go take a hike.:sun


Or try moving to another country. Sheesh.

Homer&Marje
09-10-2008, 09:23
You guys are starting to sound like paranoid conspiracy nuts, with homer leading the pack. Go take a hike.:sun

I am. (not a conspiracy though, simple fact)



Or try moving to another country. Sheesh.

Love to.

Panzer1
09-10-2008, 09:34
We are much easier to deal with that way:D

And I thought I mentioned the tax issue, maybe not... But if you do the math at an average of $3000 dollars (total fines and all) average for first offense DUI's in Mass, Multiply it by the number of arrests... figure in 50% of those will be second offenders and 30% of the original numbers will get 3rd offenses. We are talking BILLIONS nationwide. For a small increase in taxes we could install breathalizers in peoples cars, but it takes away our civil liberty to be responsible, on our own.

Lets just install the breathalier in your car.

Panzer

weary
09-10-2008, 09:51
I doubt if loss of income has anything to do with the failure to ban such things as alcohol and tobacco. Studies show that the damage done by these drugs far exceeds any tax or penalty income.

Rather these things remain in the market because society has learned that it is impossible to enforce laws against things that a significant number of people want to do.

We have learned that you can enforce where and how drugs are used, not whether they can be used. Thus Maine successfully prohibits tobacco in restaurants and bars because most users recognize the harm the substances do to those around them. The controls probably don't go far enough. Smoking in homes with young children may be among the rankest forms of child abuse.

Now if we could only apply the lessons to illegal drugs we would save billions in futile enforcement attempts -- and probably reduce overall use to the substances, just as tobacco and alcohol use has declined.

Weary

Two Speed
09-10-2008, 09:57
If you were able to post to the thread it ain't closed. Must be the computer.

Alligator
09-10-2008, 10:06
If you were able to post to the thread it ain't closed. Must be the computer.That was me I was cleaning something up.

Tin Man
09-10-2008, 10:07
Smoking in homes with young children may be among the rankest forms of child abuse.

Many of the parents I know who still smoke, do so outside their home. In the winter, they go in their garage. THEY don't even like the smell of it inside their own homes.

weary
09-10-2008, 10:09
That was me I was cleaning something up.
And I had just composed a brilliant commentary on this debate and it disappeared. I partially reconstructed it. I urge everyone to read my comments. (Post 100)Just recognize they lack the brilliance of the original.:)

Weary

Two Speed
09-10-2008, 10:12
Many of the parents I know who still smoke, do so outside their home. In the winter, they go in their garage. THEY don't even like the smell of it inside their own homes.I smoke an occasional cigar. Always do that on the back porch. No children, just don't want the odor of tobacco smoke to build up.

weary
09-10-2008, 10:17
I smoke an occasional cigar. Always do that on the back porch. No children, just don't want the odor of tobacco smoke to build up.
I quit smoking 40 years ago. No one smokes in my house any more. Well my baby sister from California still is allowed a cigaret during the hour whe stops by each year. You have to make allowances for old people.

Weary

Homer&Marje
09-10-2008, 10:32
I quit smoking after my mother started smoking again. And she always yelled at me for it.:-?

OregonHiker
09-10-2008, 20:53
Geez, who could forget good ol' Dukakis. That was about the same material I saw in the 24D program



Sorry,

But you come accross as believing the "no blood, no foul" rule should apply.

Personally, I believe DUI should carry a mandatory jail sentence. Maybe that would improve the numbers:-?

NICKTHEGREEK
09-18-2008, 16:23
I don't smoke ,but say and smelled the vomit from a guy at a shelter from drinking too much.Rather smell smoke and BO then watch a guy vomit. Everyone had to move from the shelter
Did you thank him? He did you a favor.

the goat
09-18-2008, 17:02
cigarettes are delicious and smell great.:sun

not a problem if you exercise moderation.....

Jason of the Woods
09-18-2008, 17:30
Smoking what? Damn it. No hiking the Whites for me.;)

Jason of the Woods
09-18-2008, 17:32
Sorry,

But you come accross as believing the "no blood, no foul" rule should apply.

Personally, I believe DUI should carry a mandatory jail sentence. Maybe that would improve the numbers:-?

Me too. I can't stand alcoholics. Not to be mean but alcohol causes so many problems! In moderation it is ok but we obviously are not a people of moderation of anything here in the good ol USA.:eek:

bfitz
09-18-2008, 18:26
Sorry,

But you come accross as believing the "no blood, no foul" rule should apply.

Personally, I believe DUI should carry a mandatory jail sentence. Maybe that would improve the numbers:-?Well, at least in some states, a DUI over a certain threshold does carry a mandatory jail term. That seems more fair, since the thresholds for DUI have been reduced so much that a person who had, say, one strong drink but still felt fine to drive and was just barely over the limit and maybe the breathalyzer was calibrated low or whatever...you get my point...but having a BAC in excess of a certain number indicates the person had obviously had several drinks and still chose to drive...however you feel on the subject you must agree there's a difference.
Me too. I can't stand alcoholics. Not to be mean but alcohol causes so many problems! In moderation it is ok but we obviously are not a people of moderation of anything here in the good ol USA.:eek:And I don't mind alcoholics so much. I mean I'm sure Winston Churchill was a boor but FDR was probably a hoot to hang out with. It's those teetotalers who think they know whats best for everyone like Hitler I really can't stand. :p

Jason of the Woods
09-18-2008, 19:25
OK. Good Point there Dude! You still must fight this ban of smoke with me, or smoke it...?

bfitz
09-18-2008, 19:57
OK. Good Point there Dude! You still must fight this ban of smoke with me, or smoke it...?I oppose all oppression. Up the irons!

weary
09-18-2008, 20:42
cigarettes are delicious and smell great.:sun

not a problem if you exercise moderation.....
Very true for the first few years after quitting. Then strangely, tobacco smoke became obnoxious. A puzzle that I've never been able to explain.

Weary

Jason of the Woods
09-18-2008, 20:57
I oppose all oppression. Up the irons!
Yep. I need to talk to you. PM coming now...

OregonHiker
09-18-2008, 23:42
Well, at least in some states, a DUI over a certain threshold does carry a mandatory jail term. That seems more fair, since the thresholds for DUI have been reduced so much that a person who had, say, one strong drink but still felt fine to drive and was just barely over the limit and maybe the breathalyzer was calibrated low or whatever...you get my point...but having a BAC in excess of a certain number indicates the person had obviously had several drinks and still chose to drive...however you feel on the subject you must agree there's a difference.And I don't mind alcoholics so much. I mean I'm sure Winston Churchill was a boor but FDR was probably a hoot to hang out with. It's those teetotalers who think they know whats best for everyone like Hitler I really can't stand. :p


If you had only heard the parade of excuses:(

Homer&Marje
09-19-2008, 07:28
If you had only heard the parade of excuses:(

Just so everyone knows heres the parade.

Caught away from home without Marjes medication.

Genetic cancer she has could cause Brain Aneurysms or Cardiac Arrest.

Had a few too many but was comfortable to drive.

Didn't have time to wait for a Cab or an Ambulance and was close enough to home.

Don't usually go out to drink at bars but, it was her birthday.

I AM a huge advocate AGAINST drunk driving but life happens. It's real easy to stand off to the side and point and say NO, sometimes it's harder when your wife can't breathe.

Do you stop by every car accident and critique them on what they did wrong? I can learn from my own mistakes thank you... and I did plenty of time with very little money because of the situation...In fact I still havn't recovered that's why 09 is off the books.

That's my list... publicly.... since even if I send a PM someone is going to bring it up.

Homer&Marje
09-19-2008, 07:31
Oh and she was in the hospital for 2 days after that. I am a firm believer that Sympathy is found in between Sh(it) and Syphilis in the Websters Dictionary. Don't want sympathy but understanding OTHER PEOPLE is clutch to surviving in society as a useful member.

RITBlake
09-19-2008, 09:31
The year is 2008. Smoking is the dumbest thing you could possibly do.

bfitz
09-19-2008, 14:26
The year is 2008. Smoking is the dumbest thing you could possibly do.
Ya know what...? I did three stupider things before lunch today, so shows what you know. As for judging someone else's decision to drive "under the influence" well, that's not for me. I'd have driven my wife to the hospital, too. Come to think of it, I've made a similar decision with far less good reason and anyone who wants to judge can discuss it with the good lord who told em not to because I don't give a crap what you think. I have a right to my own mistakes and I'm the one in the circumstance who makes the decisions and has to suffer the consequences. Your job is to avoid people like me. Life is risk my friends...the best way to survive it for a while is to learn to duck and dodge. Sitting on high horses and condemning and judging people is fine, and it's very entertaining to look at all your purple little outraged faces, but really...life is too short for me to to respond with anything but a laugh. There's always someone more concerned with what the neighbors are up to then they ought to be. Give it a rest, it's healthier (since that's a concern for you...) and you'll be happier, I promise.

Jason of the Woods
09-19-2008, 16:27
The Dude for Pres! Will you legalize, I mean...um... I mean end prohibition of smoking?;)

Homer&Marje
09-19-2008, 17:07
The year is 2008. Smoking is the dumbest thing you could possibly do.

I quit smoking 4 years ago. Smartest decision I ever made. But smoking was nowhere near the stupidest thing I have done to my body.


Ya know what...? I did three stupider things before lunch today, so shows what you know. As for judging someone else's decision to drive "under the influence" well, that's not for me. I'd have driven my wife to the hospital, too. Come to think of it, I've made a similar decision with far less good reason and anyone who wants to judge can discuss it with the good lord who told em not to because I don't give a crap what you think. I have a right to my own mistakes and I'm the one in the circumstance who makes the decisions and has to suffer the consequences. Your job is to avoid people like me. Life is risk my friends...the best way to survive it for a while is to learn to duck and dodge. Sitting on high horses and condemning and judging people is fine, and it's very entertaining to look at all your purple little outraged faces, but really...life is too short for me to to respond with anything but a laugh. There's always someone more concerned with what the neighbors are up to then they ought to be. Give it a rest, it's healthier (since that's a concern for you...) and you'll be happier, I promise.

Thank you. That's all.

OregonHiker
09-19-2008, 20:04
I have a right to my own mistakes and I'm the one in the circumstance who makes the decisions and has to suffer the consequences. Your job is to avoid people like me. Life is risk my friends...the best way to survive it for a while is to learn to duck and dodge.

Your logic is flawed as drunk driving is not a victimless crime. As far as avoiding people like you.....well that's why we have jails. :o:o:o

Homer&Marje
09-19-2008, 20:23
Your logic is flawed as drunk driving is not a victimless crime. As far as avoiding people like you.....well that's why we have jails. :o:o:o

No it's not a victimless crime at all. But have you ever seen what a real criminal is. Have you ever met a heroin dealer who has raped a 2 year old child? That's who you want behind bars... believe me. There are some HORRIBLE people out there. Overcrowding in prisons is one of the biggest tax expenses the American public has these days.

I'm sure you would love everyone to be locked behind bars, but you'd be the first person to bitch if they needed to build one near your neighborhood.

fehchet
09-19-2008, 22:02
Yes, jail to all you drunk drivers. Don't even try to justify driving drunk. If you drive drunk then you are a criminal. Makes me sick listening to you idiots justifying a criminal act.

WetBottom
09-19-2008, 22:29
Perhaps this will cheer you up...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/hunterjumper77/Wrong_Internet.jpg

OregonHiker
09-20-2008, 00:20
Perhaps this will cheer you up...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e287/hunterjumper77/Wrong_Internet.jpg

Thanks for the chuckle and the reality check

ed bell
09-20-2008, 01:16
Look folks, this thread has lost it's direction. It started as humor, moved to debate and now it has migrated to a whole other topic altogether. What do you folks want to debate? Whatever the answer, this does not belong in the General AT Forum. Make up your minds and I will move it. Anything else is toast. Start a new thread.

Bearpaw
09-20-2008, 01:22
Look folks, this thread has lost it's direction. It started as humor, moved to debate and now it has migrated to a whole other topic altogether. What do you folks want to debate? Whatever the answer, this does not belong in the General AT Forum. Make up your minds and I will move it. Anything else is toast. Start a new thread.

Agreed.

WetBottom, thanks for the good humor and putting things into perspective.;)

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 07:01
As the OP, my question has been answered :rolleyes: Feel free to close this baby down. Thanks.

max patch
09-20-2008, 10:19
Your logic is flawed as drunk driving is not a victimless crime. As far as avoiding people like you.....well that's why we have jails. :o:o:o

You're trying to talk common sense and logic to someone who earlier stated he has had 30% of his top life experiences in a bar.

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 15:07
You know I may as well just say delete my comment because I'm gonna express an opinion that differs from that of the Mods here on WB. I think this world would have far less problems(mental, physical, ect.) if alcohol was made illegal or moderated heavily and marijuana was made as easy to get as cigs. I have no problem with people who smoke cigs. It is their choice. Pot has absolutley no side effects and has actually of late been proven to prevent cancer. I'm sure someone will post some fake Gov. study opposing this but if you do your research you will find the truth. Alcohol and cigs cause more problems in this country than all other drugs combined yet the wonderful government allows gross overconsumption. It is sort of the American Theme sadly!

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 15:09
I meant all other illegal drugs. I won't even start on prescription drugs. That's jsut more Government money-making BS...

Alligator
09-20-2008, 15:20
Jason you don't know us very well at all so please refrain from telling us our personal opinions. Much appreciated, thanks.

Thread has run its course.