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Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 15:18
Is it just me or has anyone else become frustrated with the new White Blaze. Actually the numbers show the answer. There is not nearly the activity on here that there once was. I miss the debates. I miss the Freedom of Speech. I understand that this is a website about the AT but everyone here knows that and have other interests that they sometimes like to express. It's just too bad that they have decided to put some narrow minded Mods in charge of what the rest of us can talk about. The sad fact of the matter is they are only hurting themselves. I have chosen not to spend nearly the time on here that I used to because it's just not that interesting to me anymore. I just really wanted to put this out there whether it does any good or not. Look around though. You don't see a lot of the "big" posters on nearly as much as you used to...:-?

Lone Wolf
09-20-2008, 15:19
Is it just me or has anyone else become frustrated with the new White Blaze. Actually the numbers show the answer. There is not nearly the activity on here that there once was. I miss the debates. I miss the Freedom of Speech. I understand that this is a website about the AT but everyone here knows that and have other interests that they sometimes like to express. It's just too bad that they have decided to put some narrow minded Mods in charge of what the rest of us can talk about. The sad fact of the matter is they are only hurting themselves. I have chosen not to spend nearly the time on here that I used to because it's just not that interesting to me anymore. I just really wanted to put this out there whether it does any good or not. Look around though. You don't see a lot of the "big" posters on nearly as much as you used to...:-?

go to www.trailplace.com if you don't like it here

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 15:23
Very defensive but I'll give you an answer because I've met you Wolf and like you! I am on the other website but spent much more time here because it was more fun. That has since passed and it is just as mundane as the other now. It has lost it's character. It's my generation that is grown up now yet there aren't many people my age acttracted to this site that I actually hike with because of what I listed. You actually meet very few thru-hikers who spend any time on here. That's sad.:(

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 15:25
This post that Alligator just put on the other thread says it all. God forbid someone have a different opinion. Why is your opinion so special, just curious? You don't know me very well either and don't give me a chance. Ask folks who I've met on the trail and I'd bet they don't talk that bad of me...;)

"Jason you don't know us very well at all so please refrain from telling us our personal opinions. Much appreciated, thanks."
Alligator

modiyooch
09-20-2008, 16:45
I like the new WB better. I like it for the information more so than for entertainment. It's nicer to be able to zoom into the topic at hand instead of weeding through all the unneccessary or unrelated posts. If the numbers are down and it's because posters had to go elsewhere for entertainment, or to "chat"; so be it.

le loupe
09-20-2008, 17:00
I havent been here that long and i liked the old WB better, too.

It's very easy to circumvent the chatter to get to "information" if thats your thing. Go read the articles.

Sometime you just want to have/participate in a conversation. In real life conversation doesnt maintain a linear path, does it have to here?

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 17:06
I havent been here that long and i liked the old WB better, too.

It's very easy to circumvent the chatter to get to "information" if thats your thing. Go read the articles.

Sometime you just want to have/participate in a conversation. In real life conversation doesnt maintain a linear path, does it have to here?
Thank you! My point exactly. That, and I have to put up with Alligator censoring everything that I say and then flat out telling me to keep my opinion to myself.? Come on man. Who's causing trouble there? What a Moderator! Good Job, Man!:D

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 17:07
I like the new WB better. I like it for the information more so than for entertainment. It's nicer to be able to zoom into the topic at hand instead of weeding through all the unneccessary or unrelated posts. If the numbers are down and it's because posters had to go elsewhere for entertainment, or to "chat"; so be it.
I see your point but it is extremely easy to get answers by posting or just search and it comes right up...

Jack Tarlin
09-20-2008, 17:42
As a counterpoint, I just wanted to say that in recent weeks, when posts of my own were deleted, Alligator was scrupulously polite when he explained to me the reasons behind his actions. I might not have always agreed with him, but he was always forthright, polite, and very prompt in addressing any questions or problems.

In short, I think his actions as a Moderator here are just fine.

NICKTHEGREEK
09-20-2008, 17:45
go to www.trailplace.com (http://www.trailplace.com) if you don't like it here
How did that work for you LW ?;)

Tractor
09-20-2008, 17:48
As I experienced again yesterday, at O'Hare, we seem to all be here for each others amusement, entertainment, enlightenment and amazement. A hiking forum should allow for such within reason. Problem is - whose definition(s)?

I have witnessed other forums implode or explode from waaaaay tooooo much side drift. What is too much? Individuals of a group will disagree; therefore, we choose or allow moderators.

WB is different than before and will surely change again & again so be it.

Pokey2006
09-20-2008, 17:53
Hey, I'd rather be censored by the mods then insulted and told to "get the hell off this thread" by fellow WBers.

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 17:57
As a counterpoint, I just wanted to say that in recent weeks, when posts of my own were deleted, Alligator was scrupulously polite when he explained to me the reasons behind his actions. I might not have always agreed with him, but he was always forthright, polite, and very prompt in addressing any questions or problems.

In short, I think his actions as a Moderator here are just fine.

Jack, at risk of having a relapse with you do you think it was ok for Mr. Alligator to tell me to keep my opinion to myself. The definition of a moderator is one that is neutral. In my mind that didn't seem very neutral to me. You've met me in person and know that I get along with lots of people yet this fella seems to have it out for me and I've never met him.?:-?

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 17:58
I'm gonna continue my day and let this pan out and prove itself. You all have a great evening!

Bearpaw
09-20-2008, 18:14
JOTW, I'm a mod here, for this specific forum, and I spend most of my time of WB cleaning up after folks who raise a ruckus.

It might be worth a moment for people here to remember the Terms of Service (http://whiteblaze.net/index.php?page=agreement). Technically, I could delete some of your posts in this thread as violations of TOS #3, but I choose to let them stand so others can see both sides of a coin. I happen to know at least part of what 'Gator was dealing with in terms of his "keep your opinions to yourself" dealt with consistent references to illegal (at least in the great majority of states) drugs. Continued debate on this topic is a violation of TOS #4.

Folks here let you offer plenty of opinions. IMO, many of them are good ones, too. It's just that most folks here KNOW where you stand on legalizing certain products. A number of folks agree with you also. But there's no need to http://www.appalachiantrailservices.com/pics/smilies/beatdeadhorse5.gif. Share opinions about other things. Plenty of folks will be glad to hear it. Some won't. Just stick within the TOS and be reasonably civil.

I agree the "new" WB is different and in many ways, I miss some of the fun of the old WB. But if I weren't a moderator, I could honestly say I don't miss a lot of the hate and discontent. Since I'm a mod, I see it and try to minimize it. Barring that, if folks refuse to work with us, I have to delete it or lock threads. I really dislike that. But at least the average WB member doesn't have to walk into a war of words in every second or third thread.

Jack Tarlin
09-20-2008, 18:15
Jason: I'm not going to comment on what I think is "OK" or not OK as I don't know the facts here. But speaking purely from my own experience, if you have a beef or complaint about site moderation, you'll probably get further by talking to the individual Moderator privately. Ask questions, voice concern, and I'm sure you'll get a polite and very prompt response. If you're wondering why a comment of yours was removed or delted, all you need do is ask the Moderator why this was done, and he'll certainly tell you. Did you ever do this?

Gaiter
09-20-2008, 18:27
its not like there wasn't a fair amount of warning about behaviors and comments that were getting out of hand, we would still have all those freedoms if we could have kept ourselves in check, no one can deny that the bickering and attacks had crossed the line...
so don't complain, there was plenty of warning

Jason of the Woods
09-20-2008, 18:30
Jason: I'm not going to comment on what I think is "OK" or not OK as I don't know the facts here. But speaking purely from my own experience, if you have a beef or complaint about site moderation, you'll probably get further by talking to the individual Moderator privately. Ask questions, voice concern, and I'm sure you'll get a polite and very prompt response. If you're wondering why a comment of yours was removed or delted, all you need do is ask the Moderator why this was done, and he'll certainly tell you. Did you ever do this?
Jack but you already have expressed that. That's why I commented. Enough said.

As for my talk of legalizing anything. I was going right along with the thread and my god maybe Mr Gator could use a few hits, no.;)

Really folks, I've got a beautiful young lady cooking me an awesome dinner right now so I must go enjoy her company. I have no beef with anyone and would just like to be able to express my opinion without scrutiny. I don't feel that is too much to ask. I will be headed to New England soon to walk south for a couple of months. I invite anyone who wants to go to join Dah Wah He and I for a section. I guarantee you a good time. That's the way that I live my life. Peace and Love to each and every one of you!

Bearpaw
09-20-2008, 18:49
I guarantee you a good time. That's the way that I live my life. Peace and Love to each and every one of you!

I'd like to meet you out there sometime Jason. I'm sure it would be a great time. The other hikers are one of the best things about the AT.

Darwin again
09-20-2008, 18:58
Yeah. Professionalism really sucks.
(With the exception of Lonsome Wolfie.)

:rolleyes:

thestin
09-20-2008, 19:04
Do moderators generally let a person know when a post is removed?

I had several posts on a thread removed last week, but never heard a peep out of a moderator as to why.

max patch
09-20-2008, 19:18
Jack, at risk of having a relapse with you do you think it was ok for Mr. Alligator to tell me to keep my opinion to myself. The definition of a moderator is one that is neutral. In my mind that didn't seem very neutral to me. You've met me in person and know that I get along with lots of people yet this fella seems to have it out for me and I've never met him.?:-?

JOTW, you've obviously burned out the brain cells that deal with reading comprehension.

You said: You know I may as well just say delete my comment because I'm gonna express an opinion that differs from that of the Mods here on WB.

Gator responded: Jason you don't know us very well at all so please refrain from telling us our personal opinions. Much appreciated, thanks.

Gators response was appropriate and 100% correct.

Bearpaw
09-20-2008, 19:22
Do moderators generally let a person know when a post is removed?

I had several posts on a thread removed last week, but never heard a peep out of a moderator as to why.

Ask. The abbreviated reason is listed on the deletion frame, but if you're you're not sure of a specific, ask. A lot of times, some one responds to a post that gets deleted. The poster didn't do any thing wrong, but leaving the response after the original post is gone often means the response post makes no sense, and often stirs up more confusion.

I try not to delete stuff myself unless it pretty clearly violates the TOS, but there are times when it really is necessary even to maintain a little bit of order in some threads.

And sometimes I don't catch things until much later than is good for any one. I have a life and a job (well, two actually), and sometimes I just don't log on for 12-36 hours. Stuff can happen in that timeframe. By then sometimes, deletion or closing a thread is the open option.

Yukon
09-20-2008, 19:24
I like the old whiteblaze better but will still continue to use the site for information and what not. I used to read alot more on here but frankly it's gotten pretty boring and it's WAY over-moderated, and I know a thing or two about moderation because I have been running a internet forum for motorcyclist's for about 5 years now, and we are hopping! We let free speech go farther. There just seems to be a lot more whiners in the hiking community or something, I can't really figure it out, but hey, to each their own I guess.

Darwin again
09-20-2008, 19:35
As a counterpoint, I just wanted to say that in recent weeks, when posts of my own were deleted, Alligator was scrupulously polite when he explained to me the reasons behind his actions. I might not have always agreed with him, but he was always forthright, polite, and very prompt in addressing any questions or problems.

In short, I think his actions as a Moderator here are just fine.

Posts deleted in recent weeks?
THIS is why I don't bother coming around here much any more.
The new world order and all that.
:sun

Darwin again
09-20-2008, 19:35
The over moderation sux, Ray.

thestin
09-20-2008, 19:46
If I knew who to ask, I would. All I saw was that several posts were removed. Didn't see a "deletion frame".

Back when FD was a moderator this happened and we had a good and productive discussion on why the posts were deleted.

halibut15
09-20-2008, 19:47
I agree with everybody on the over-moderation. Yes, I understand that there are terms of service in place that people must abide by, but a forum is just that...a forum. It's a place for people to express their opinions and ideas, even if most of the other people online strongly disagree with them. I just find it strange that a site dedicated to a place as open-minded and colorful as the AT seems to devote much of its time to restricting many of the colorful personalities (and their colorful opinions) that make it so. As an example, is gun control a sensitive topic? You bet, but it's a sensitive topic that has some relevance to the AT community (if you don't believe this, just check out some past threads), and it deserves to be discussed. Where could a better place be than an online forum of AT enthusiasts? OK, I'll get off my soapbox now...I'm just glad to see some others expressing the same opinions I've had for a long time about how WB has changed.

Kirby
09-20-2008, 19:50
The new WB is the same WB without the nonesense, people get answers to their questions now without the S*** that used to come with it. Much better IMO.

Kirby

Blue Jay
09-20-2008, 19:51
I miss some of the fun of the old WB. But if I weren't a moderator, I could honestly say I don't miss a lot of the hate and discontent. Since I'm a mod, I see it and try to minimize it. Barring that, if folks refuse to work with us, I have to delete it or lock threads. I really dislike that. But at least the average WB member doesn't have to walk into a war of words in every second or third thread.

Seriously, as a horse owner I found your beating a dead horse cartoon to be extremely offensive. I also would NEVER EVER even suggest that you remove it. The simple truth is that White Blaze is now boring, almost robotic. It's still the best source of AT news and I am very grateful to be able to be able to come here. Like everywhere else a few people with thin skin have degraded something truly wonderful, but it's still very good.

halibut15
09-20-2008, 19:53
Isn't that what the "straight-forward" forum was created for? Why not allow some digression on the others?

Cuffs
09-20-2008, 19:56
I dont want to run anyone off, but if you are not happy here, please go find another site that makes you happy. Just go and shut up about it.

Kirby
09-20-2008, 19:56
I dont want to run anyone off, but if you are not happy here, please go find another site that makes you happy. Just go and shut up about it.

Affirmed.

Kirby

mudcap
09-20-2008, 20:02
I really like the NEW WB. Good to see REAL discussion about hiking. The OLD WB was out of control.Its simple,not happy... move on. Everyone has their own opinions,but the mods control things.BTW,I believe the mods deserve way more credit than thay are getting ! If you don't agree with them start your own site. Just my opinion.

Bearpaw
09-20-2008, 20:05
Seriously, as a horse owner I found your beating a dead horse cartoon to be extremely offensive.

Thank you for the laugh. My biggest beef with the "new" whiteblaze is that the Hiking Humor section is slowly dying because every time someone posts, it winds up being debated by a few people until there is NOTHING funny about it any more.

I have to laugh at myself every day in my school (I teach special ed students with severe behavior issues). If a small number of folks here could laugh at themselves, the site would be more enjoyable. I include myself in this number. I need to remember there are worse things than ruffled feathers on WB. But I still believe most folks don't want to walk into a flame war either.

modiyooch
09-20-2008, 20:05
what i have experienced is that the posts that get deleted are the posts that are way off topic for a particular thread, or personal attacks. JOTW, what did your government comments have anything to do with the original topic. The original poster even asked for it to be shut down. It's neat to follow a thread regarding an exciting topic, but someone typically has a personal agenda to get it off track, or people start attacking each other.

OregonHiker
09-20-2008, 20:11
This post that Alligator just put on the other thread says it all. God forbid someone have a different opinion. Why is your opinion so special, just curious? You don't know me very well either and don't give me a chance. Ask folks who I've met on the trail and I'd bet they don't talk that bad of me...;)

"Jason you don't know us very well at all so please refrain from telling us our personal opinions. Much appreciated, thanks."
Alligator

The mods do a very good, and unpaid job.

Put yourself in Gators shoes....I am sure he hears alot of grief that never goes public.

Tilly
09-20-2008, 20:16
Oohh, I'll get flamed for this, but having to wade through people's tangents gets annoying when looking for information. I mean really.
Why don't we all start debating abortion? The death penalty? Gun control? Those tangents all denigrate into namecalling, you think this because you think that, blah blah blah. And nothing is ever resolved...

mtnkngxt
09-20-2008, 20:26
I like WB new and old, personally I'm tired of a select few including the OP who see it fit to create threads just to stir the pot. If you don't like the content on the site then either create your own or follow LW's link. No one is forcing you to post here. I have started donating to the site, but I also understand that it grants me no special rights or privilidges, I just want to secure the future of the site. To the mods I thank you for your hard work and I personally hope this thread gets locked and trashed.

superman
09-20-2008, 20:35
I prefer the kinder, mellower WB. Maybe it's my age but I've already had my fill of being called names. It's also easier to get and give hiking information without the flaming. Although I do say that I'm right and yall should hike the way I say to hike.:)

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 20:42
It's easy to be polite. It is difficult to make the judgments needed for the free flow of information and ideas. The founders of this nation were right. Better nonsense than censorship. That's something that Whiteblaze has not learned. But I'm marginally hopefull.

wisdom is still alive on this site

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 20:48
The new WB is the same WB without the nonesense, people get answers to their questions now without the S*** that used to come with it. Much better IMO.

Kirby

you have much to learn in this world young fella. specific answers to specific questions are only a small part of the learning experience. go forth and listen to everything and everybody, not just what you want to hear.

[all doubters, pretty deep ... and all so true]

Alligator
09-20-2008, 20:53
JOTW, you've obviously burned out the brain cells that deal with reading comprehension.

You said: You know I may as well just say delete my comment because I'm gonna express an opinion that differs from that of the Mods here on WB.

Gator responded: Jason you don't know us very well at all so please refrain from telling us our personal opinions. Much appreciated, thanks.

Gators response was appropriate and 100% correct.Thank you Max. That's correct I didn't tell him to keep his opinion to himself. Of course, it could have, would have, (and should have;)) been been cleared up through PM.

Yes, we have a user agreement here (TOS). It was created/developed mainly by the owners of WB including Dixicritter. The mods at the time did have input but the main body was developed by the then admins. I don't believe that Skids was an admin at the time. Those are the rules for the site and I have been entrusted with enforcing them, and I do support them.

There are some limits as to what you can talk about, but really, the limitations are in place to keep the place civil.
#2 Offensive posting is not allowed. That includes use of illegal substances, racism, sexism, or posts that ridicule, belittle, taunt, mock, or assault the character of other members. Our policy does not protect people that choose to verbally assault other members that may disagree with them. In essence members can disagree but should remain respectful of the person they disagree with.

#4 Discussions involving how to commit illegal acts, or involving the use, production and/or distribution of illegal drugs are forbidden.

#5 Do not post inflammatory messages, spam, “off topic” posts, or hijack topics.

#6 No commercial posts are allowed, and spam is forbidden in both forums and private messages.

Jason, you often run afoul of the illegal substances discussion. I'm going to let a little information out here that I shouldn't but it's a bit old so hopefully I will be forgiven. As a moderator, I stood up for the right of members here to discuss the use of medical MJ, even though I was in conflict with other members on the team. And I stood firm in that decision regardless of the consequences. So when you posted what you did in the closed thread I said what I did because you really haven't got a clue as to the differing viewpoints all the mods and admins have. We are a diverse group. Now, in your particular case Jason you move well beyond discussing drugs in the medical sense and that's why you get moderated.

Members still have a lot of leeway in what they can post about. There's a whole Non-AT forum to discuss things in. Let's see, who pushed to get that reopened:-?. Could it be Mr. Alligator:eek:.

It's not about what you say but rather how it's said. Most topics are still okay just leave the personal attacks out of it and that'll be fine. Don't personally repeatedly bring up the same topics just to get members fired up rather than to simply discuss the issue. There's a difference between stimulating debate and trolling.

Also, thanks Jack for the kind words.

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 20:56
I dont want to run anyone off, but if you are not happy here, please go find another site that makes you happy. Just go and shut up about it.

I could find another place (or maybe I did ;) ), but this is the USofA and shutting anyone up is against the freedom of speech. So is WB the USofA or some kinda commie place? [NOT "stirring the pot", just saying]

You walk down the sidewalk, someone spits in someone else's face, what do you do? Leave, yell, ignore, call 911, or say "that sucks, but it is between them" and move on?

ed bell
09-20-2008, 21:03
It has been my experience that folks are more concerned by not knowing the content of censure rather than being censored. Censorship is a hell of a word. Sounds nefarious and can be. What happens here is an attempt to reasonable enforce the "terms of service" as equally as possible. Never easy and always unsatisfying. In the context of being a hiking website, what exactly is being censored beyond the TOS? That is a fair question that anyone who wants to complain should answer.

ed bell
09-20-2008, 21:09
I could find another place (or maybe I did ;) ), but this is the USofA and shutting anyone up is against the freedom of speech. So is WB the USofA or some kinda commie place? [NOT "stirring the pot", just saying]

You walk down the sidewalk, someone spits in someone else's face, what do you do? Leave, yell, ignore, call 911, or say "that sucks, but it is between them" and move on?You are involved in the Boy Scouts. It is a club with members. You have rules for a reason. No difference. This ain't the town square. Let me ask you this: what do you miss here that is now off limits? Be honest.

DavidNH
09-20-2008, 21:09
personally, I think the new whiteblaze is infinitely better. Even so, I STILL from time to time get brutally sliced and diced by various folks simply for expressing strong oppinions they don't agree with. I wouldn't mind if the Mods where even more vigilant.

I like trailspace very much and spend a lot of time there. But I will still come here from time to time (there are lots of members and lots of posts, hence lots of news and info).

Jason of the woods.. If you aren't thrilled with whiteblaze you can go elsewhere. No skin off anyone's back. If you do like whiteblaze then accept it for what it is and contribute.

David

Cuffs
09-20-2008, 21:09
I could find another place (or maybe I did ;) ), but this is the USofA and shutting anyone up is against the freedom of speech. So is WB the USofA or some kinda commie place? [NOT "stirring the pot", just saying]

You walk down the sidewalk, someone spits in someone else's face, what do you do? Leave, yell, ignore, call 911, or say "that sucks, but it is between them" and move on?

try this on for size... http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080707/news_1n7online.html

le loupe
09-20-2008, 21:22
It's easy to be polite. It is difficult to make the judgments needed for the free flow of information and ideas. The founders of this nation were right. Better nonsense than censorship. That's something that Whiteblaze has not learned. But I'm marginally hopefull.

There is no way for an intelligent dicussion of AT issues without someone from time to time pointing out what is happening in the real world of politics.

In my humble opinion, anyone that doesn't recognize this, simply doesn't know much about issues dealing with a very complex trail. Which, of course, is why the political discussions were both minimal -- and critical.

Weary

I agree with Weary on something- inconcievable...

Dances with Mice
09-20-2008, 21:27
...but this is the USofA and shutting anyone up is against the freedom of speech. So is WB the USofA or some kinda commie place? That's a serious misunderstanding of the 1st Amendment, Man.

You can't come into my house and say anything you want; you can but I reserve the right to kick you out. On W-B you're on someone else's property. Troll pays the bills here so he gets to call the tune. Welcome to America.

ed bell
09-20-2008, 21:36
It's easy to be polite. It is difficult to make the judgments needed for the free flow of information and ideas. The founders of this nation were right. Better nonsense than censorship. That's something that Whiteblaze has not learned. But I'm marginally hopefull.

All this crap about there is no "need" for politics and ideas, is simply crap, a misunderstanding about how and why intelligent dialogue is important in a free society.

There is no way for an intelligent dicussion of AT issues without someone from time to time pointing out what is happening in the real world of politics.

I don't know much about the real world of land protection in the west. But I do have thoughts about how this coming election will have a great deal about what happens to the occasional wild places that still exist in the east.

In my humble opinion, anyone that doesn't recognize this, simply doesn't know much about issues dealing with a very complex trail. Which, of course, is why the political discussions were both minimal -- and critical.

WearyPolitical topics are allowed in the context of the AT and hiking. That is a problem because of the line and where it is drawn. Other than that folks are free to make their point.

TOW
09-20-2008, 21:39
i Want The Old WB Back! I Mean For The Sake Of A Good Piece Of Pecan Pie Let Us Go Back To Playing The Way We Like To Play!

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 21:44
You are involved in the Boy Scouts. It is a club with members. You have rules for a reason. No difference. This ain't the town square. Let me ask you this: what do you miss here that is now off limits? Be honest.

If you knew me through scouts, you would think I was a Boy Scout.

If you knew me as a friend, you would think what the heck are you doing in that club.

If you really knew me, you would say you admired the way I balanced the bs (bull) with the benefits of the bs (boy scouts).

But it ain't about me.

Yes WB is a club, but the rules have changed and some have left because of it. Clearly, others see the new rules/enforcement as an improvement. I see both sides and agree with neither...

................


What keeps me in Scouts was what one of the head hanchos at Council said in response to a question about the Scout rules...

The Scout books are not hardbound, they are softbound, making them flexible, as are the rules, some rules are more important than others, but above all else Scouting is about the spirit of Scouting, not the strictess reading of the rules.

Perhaps WB was too loose with their rules, but the answer was a swinging of the pendulum that went 180 degrees, about 90 degrees too far, in my opinion as a member of the old club. I liked the old club, warts and all. The new club still has warts, but has lost its spirit.

Above all else, the owners rule, the members follow and the results play themselves out over time. None of what I said, others have said, or what anyone thinks, matters.

p.s. In spite of what people might think or say, I ain't no hardass or candy ass... and I do love ya all...


happy trails

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 21:51
That's a serious misunderstanding of the 1st Amendment, Man.

You can't come into my house and say anything you want; you can but I reserve the right to kick you out. On W-B you're on someone else's property. Troll pays the bills here so he gets to call the tune. Welcome to America.

Thanks for the education... the first amendment died here when the rules enforcement came out of nowhere.

As far as Troll paying the bills here, I admire his time and effort. I hope the people who love the new WB pony up their donations to make up for the lost or dissastified members who have donated for years.

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 21:53
try this on for size... http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20080707/news_1n7online.html

you know I love ya and appreciate the article, but what's with the "bitch" in your avatar? :)

edit: I thought bitch would be automatically censored. oh well.

Yahtzee
09-20-2008, 21:57
I can barely tell the difference.

Cuffs
09-20-2008, 22:04
you know I love ya and appreciate the article, but what's with the "bitch" in your avatar? :)

edit: I thought bitch would be automatically censored. oh well.

Its cuz Im a card carryin member, thats why. http://www.heartless-bitches.com/

OregonHiker
09-20-2008, 22:05
Perhaps WB was too loose with their rules, but the answer was a swinging of the pendulum that went 180 degrees

p.s. In spite of what people might think or say, I ain't no hardass or candy ass... and I do love ya all...


happy trails

I think the pendulum is swinging back to vertical. Keep in mind that WB is run by a group of humans and as gator pointed out that there is no unanimous opinion on exactly how the rules should be interperetd.

Sure ther are ones who left. However, there are some who left WB, bad mouthed WB on other forums and then came back after throwing a fit when they realized the grass (no pun intended) at WB was actually greener.

PS I applaud your participation in Scouting.

Sly
09-20-2008, 22:17
We need a useless thread forum.

SoonerTex
09-20-2008, 22:26
aaaaggggghhhh! My head just exploded reading all of this. IMHO Life is to short. I call for a group Hug.

SoonerTex

Bearpaw
09-20-2008, 22:39
Its cuz Im a card carryin member, thats why. http://www.heartless-bitches.com/

I LOVE the trade-marked "CLUE-by Four" reference! I figure it applies to more than just guys hitting on women. :-?

BTW, this is a little bit of the old WB folks, when it was OK to laugh at something that was genuinely funny. :D

MOWGLI
09-20-2008, 22:42
I could find another place (or maybe I did ;) ), bu

There is no "freedom of speech" on Whiteblaze. If you don't understand that, read the preceding sentence again.

halibut15
09-20-2008, 23:19
I propose a new term of service:

TOS #18: No humor shall from thenceforth be used in forum threads.

We really have seventeen of those? Geez. :banana

Bearpaw
09-20-2008, 23:28
TOS #18: No humor shall from thenceforth be used in forum threads.

Unfortunately, this seems to be an unofficial rule non-moderators have already chosen to enforce. See post #35 in this thread. No new thread in the hiking humor section has survived in the last couple of months because a handful of members has jumped in and seriously debated the humorous topic as "not funny". I'm a mod in the Hiking Humor sub-forum. Even I have mostly given up on the funny bone of our members.

FatMan
09-20-2008, 23:36
Cool. Looks like the old White Blaze is back.:banana

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 23:53
There is no "freedom of speech" on Whiteblaze. If you don't understand that, read the preceding sentence again.

doh, really now? :rolleyes:

p.s. sucks being a yankees fan right now, unless you are a ny giants fan :)

Tin Man
09-20-2008, 23:54
Cool. Looks like the old White Blaze is back.:banana

wishing it was don't make it so

Heater
09-21-2008, 00:08
personally, I think the new whiteblaze is infinitely better. Even so, I STILL from time to time get brutally sliced and diced by various folks simply for expressing strong oppinions they don't agree with. I wouldn't mind if the Mods where even more vigilant.

I like trailspace very much and spend a lot of time there. But I will still come here from time to time (there are lots of members and lots of posts, hence lots of news and info).

Jason of the woods.. If you aren't thrilled with whiteblaze you can go elsewhere. No skin off anyone's back.

Speak for yourself. I do not want want anyone to feel that they have to leave because the censorship is too tight. You may feel otherwise. :(


If you do like whiteblaze then accept it for what it is and contribute.

David

Speaking of which, this site accepts cash, checks, credit cards and paypal. If you are as happy as you say with the status quo and what this site gives you, you really should pony up. ;)

P.S. I notice that many of those the were previously "donating members" are now "registered users".
Hmmmmmmmmm...... :-?

jzakhar
09-21-2008, 00:26
This place is and was a great source of information for me regarding my hike this year. I also enjoyed some of the debates here, however they almost always degenerated into a pissing contest in the end.

I see Freedom of Speech tossed around here, it always amazes me how people just don't seem to understand it, its also the first argument put forth when censorship happens. Ya gotta take this place for what it is, a message forum about the Appalachian Trail, not your personal soap box.

I check this place every day, and continue to enjoy it for what it is. It's sad harsher rules had to be put into play, because some here just cant play nice with others.


-Blackberry

Summit
09-21-2008, 07:11
For the most part, those complaining about the 'restrictions' are the reasons the restrictions had to be implemented in the first place. So go find some other place to be vile, inconsiderate, and disruptive! :eek: There is plenty of room in the rules of conduct for humor and 'interesting comments,' just not for people and their comments that belittle others who don't see and do things exactly like you do.

Tin Man
09-21-2008, 07:31
There were no innocents in the lively discussions.

Yukon
09-21-2008, 07:47
Telling people to go to another site is a COMPLETELY wrong way of thinking about this, you want people to stay on THIS site. Sites die out by that way of thinking, I have seen it AND experienced it before.

fiddlehead
09-21-2008, 07:50
I agree with the OP.
Censorship sucks.
I spend about 1/3 the time i used to on here.

I only come on now to find out info on my new gear or give advice on trails i've hiked.

Since Warren got kicked out of the Where's Karl thread, it has pretty much died except for a few do-gooders praising him all the time.
Is that what they mods want?
Apparantly.

Warren knows more about the AT than any man alive yet he is banned mostly cause people bad-mouthed Warren. Ok, the guy is not the most social character around, but he is cause for banning both ways. I had a post deleted because i mentioned that i couldn't understand why Warren doesn't hike any other trails.
yes it hurt. I still don't understand why i couldn't say that.
i didn't come back for about 2 months after that first time. Now, i get deleted for less so, simply post a lot less.

Anyway, it is what it is: a nice, friendly "do-gooder" site run by a bunch of mods who are most likely wanna be cops.
Opinions aren't really wanted anymore are they?

Tin Man
09-21-2008, 08:05
It's funny how people complain that others never say what they really feel in person. Then when others say how they really feel online, people complain. :-?

Kirby
09-21-2008, 08:10
Mama mia.

Kirby

WalkingStick75
09-21-2008, 08:39
aaaaggggghhhh! My head just exploded reading all of this. IMHO Life is to short. I call for a group Hug.

SoonerTex

I would like to modify this motion with the addition of a round of the Barney song :)

I personally like the "new WB" (just do not have the time to wade through all the posts) but their are those that like the debate so why not move these threads to a subscribed free for all unmoderated or very little moderation section?

Yukon
09-21-2008, 08:49
I would like to modify this motion with the addition of a round of the Barney song :)

I personally like the "new WB" (just do not have the time to wade through all the posts) but their are those that like the debate so why not move these threads to a subscribed free for all unmoderated or very little moderation section?

Best idea in this thread yet, every forum needs a spot for people to unwind. You don't want to read the stuff, don't subscribe to the forum, problem solved. I just can't fathom why this is so hard for some people??

oldfivetango
09-21-2008, 08:52
Personally,I am glad that the original scope and intent of WB is
back.I came here to learn about hiking and have actually gleaned
some useful information.

Was the site ever intended to morph into a political name calling
hate fomenting political activist site?I don't think so but that is
what it was becoming until the mods woke up and went back
to basics.

I would suggest that anyone who wants to pick a fight go on
over to trailplace-but wait-only like minded leftists are allowed to
post their opinions there,so have fun bashing the right and preaching
to your choir.
Oldfivetango

mtnkngxt
09-21-2008, 09:00
I've noticed that a large number of people here talk about no longer wanting to be here, yet they still post. So I think the best solution for all is if you don't like the mods or the board or the background colors JUST GO. No one is holding a gun to your head, and if they are you shouldn't be wasting your time on a message board. I like the useful info, I appreciate the lack of political and substance talk that people seem to try to throw in the same bag with the AT. I appreciate that there is no religion forum even as a christian, because I don't feel like listening to the nonsense. Mods are in place to maintain peace and keep the flow of info running smooth. If you take a thread off topic, your post should be deleted. If you talk about illegal drugs, your post should be deleted. If you feel the need to make stupid threads like this one just to get peoples blood pressure up, I think you should be banned. No one starts a thread like this without knowing beforehand the damage and the nonsense thats going to spew forth from it. I have been on this board for a year, and so far I have had one post deleted, and I knew I was wrong and had gone off topic. I accepted the fact that I had screwed up, and since then haven't had a problem. So for those of you getting your post deleted ask yourself what percentage of the people on WB are getting their posts deleted, and I think youi'll see that the "censorship" you so quickly cry about is a direct result of your posts only. For the rest of us we go pretty freely around the site having normal conversations and talking about gear, trail conditions, and the best places to grub while in town. If you can't manage to talk about the AT without dragging the conglomerated world into it, then I think you've missed the point of this board and the AT as a whole.

max patch
09-21-2008, 09:22
I would suggest that anyone who wants to pick a fight go on
over to trailplace-but wait-only like minded leftists are allowed to
post their opinions there,so have fun bashing the right and preaching
to your choir.
Oldfivetango

NO political talk on Trailplace, and if you're there just to create problems you'll get banned.

Lyle
09-21-2008, 09:25
Best idea in this thread yet, every forum needs a spot for people to unwind. You don't want to read the stuff, don't subscribe to the forum, problem solved. I just can't fathom why this is so hard for some people??

I may be totally off base, but I think the problem with allowing a free-for-all forum is that the vinegar that is produced in that forum would invariably be splashed around in other threads. We've seen it happen.

I guess my position is that I hate censorship, and was not aware that it had become more widespread here. I had just thought and maybe hoped that folks had taken the recent past events as a learning experience and decided to police themselves. I have noticed fewer posts by previously very active members. That said, I do enjoy the new WB more.

I've said this before, I think a great deal of the problem is that so many WBers are personal friends, getting together at numerous trail events throughout the year, that many have formed a "clique" of sorts and feel free to rag on each other relentlessly.
Most of this is probably in friendship, but some, obviously, is an expression of true hard feelings over things not related to WB. Much of this back and forth bantering and sparring is not well received by those who are not part of it. When this otherwise uninvolved person make a statement about said argument, they become a part of it and the gloves are off toward that person as well - instilling more hard feelings.

These are just my observations as a frequent visitor (daily), but still and outsider of sorts. Really have no solution other than the administration deciding what they want WB to be and going with it as they appear to be doing. Hopefully any ruffled feathers will be smoothed (at least the majority of them) and things will go on.

I'm sure I wouldn't agree with every decision the Mods are making, but this thread has made me even more determined to support them as much as I can in their efforts. They are trying to do a thankless job for the most part.

hopefulhiker
09-21-2008, 09:37
I miss the old WB too. I have just spent more time doing volunteer work though. So maybe it is for the best...

Lone Wolf
09-21-2008, 09:39
I have just spent more time doing volunteer work though. So maybe it is for the best...

agreed. i volunteer with the rescue squad driving an ambulance

Jason of the Woods
09-21-2008, 10:19
After a hard night of drinking(legal WB talk) and debauchery with multiple partners it's nice to get up to a good chuckle! Thanks Guys! I just wanted the people to speak and it seems the ones who agree with me are ridiculed for it, sadly.:(

Gator, I am still waiting for that PM that you mentioned. I believe that I quoted you exactly since I copied and pasted your statement. Kirby, they are right man. While I admire your accomplishment at such a young age, you, my friend, are still young and have a lot of growing to do. You really do need multiple opinions in life to form your own. If you notice a few people who disagree with me are also on my friends list. You don't have to always agree with people to get along but respect their opinion! Happy Sunday and that offer to come hiking still stands!:D

Jason of the Woods
09-21-2008, 10:25
Oh, I agreee LW! Now that I am single again I spend much more time out spreading my evil across the land.;)

Jason of the Woods
09-21-2008, 10:28
I agree with everybody on the over-moderation. Yes, I understand that there are terms of service in place that people must abide by, but a forum is just that...a forum. It's a place for people to express their opinions and ideas, even if most of the other people online strongly disagree with them. I just find it strange that a site dedicated to a place as open-minded and colorful as the AT seems to devote much of its time to restricting many of the colorful personalities (and their colorful opinions) that make it so. As an example, is gun control a sensitive topic? You bet, but it's a sensitive topic that has some relevance to the AT community (if you don't believe this, just check out some past threads), and it deserves to be discussed. Where could a better place be than an online forum of AT enthusiasts? OK, I'll get off my soapbox now...I'm just glad to see some others expressing the same opinions I've had for a long time about how WB has changed.

Best post since the first one!:D

Lone Wolf
09-21-2008, 10:29
Oh, I agreee LW! Now that I am single again I spend much more time out spreading my evil across the land.;)

huh? i don't spread evil. i'm a good person

Jason of the Woods
09-21-2008, 10:32
huh? i don't spread evil. i'm a good person
Sarcasm man. I know that it doesn't come across well online! I am made to feel that way here, a lot!:o

Lone Wolf
09-21-2008, 10:33
Sarcasm man. I know that it doesn't come across well online! I am made to feel that way here, a lot!:o

then stop coming here. extremely simple

Jason of the Woods
09-21-2008, 10:36
then stop coming here. extremely simpleI'm sorry that you feel that way Wolf. It seems that I am not alone in my opinion. Does that mean that anyone who's not a beer drinking redneck should leave with me? Forgive me for being a peaceful hippie who tries to get along with everyone. And I don't come here much anymore. I just felt that this should be pointed out and hasn't it made the site interesting again, if just for a short time? I'll be hiking soon and won't have time to do this. No Worries!:-?

emerald
09-21-2008, 10:38
JOTW, you still don't get it about discussing such issues here, trolling or neither contributing anything useful where people seeking to prepare themselves for A.T. hikes are looking for information, not to spend their lives in the wading pool.;)

Jason of the Woods
09-21-2008, 10:41
I left this thread on page two yesterday so once again I must not be the only one here who feels this way, thus making this thread useful. That is if the owners pay attention to mine and other's opinions. It's really no skin off of my teeth whether I'm here or not. I'm still gonna hike. I think maybe some others should do more of that...

Bearpaw
09-21-2008, 10:44
I have edited this to keep it as closely adherent to TOS # 4 while still explaining the need to moderate this thread.

Until illegal substances are legalized federally, expect posts about them to be deleted.

Bearpaw
09-21-2008, 11:06
Warren knows more about the AT than any man alive yet he is banned mostly cause people bad-mouthed Warren. Ok, the guy is not the most social character around, but he is cause for banning both ways. I had a post deleted because i mentioned that i couldn't understand why Warren doesn't hike any other trails.
yes it hurt. I still don't understand why i couldn't say that.
i didn't come back for about 2 months after that first time. Now, i get deleted for less so, simply post a lot less.

Anyway, it is what it is: a nice, friendly "do-gooder" site run by a bunch of mods who are most likely wanna be cops.
Opinions aren't really wanted anymore are they?

Warren was banned from ONE thread, the Karl Metzger thread. Other posts about Warren were deleted because Warren had no way to respond, and the thread was supposed to be about Karl's attempt, not Warren's comments. Warren was warned many times before being banned from the thread about his persistent efforts to stir the pot and essentially make the thread about himself. Such behavior is prohibited under TOS #13:

Users that cause significant disturbances, are repeated violators of the Terms of Service, or routinely create issues without contributing to the site's main theme of helping other hikers prepare for hiking the AT - they can be considered for banning by the Administrators for due cause. Members being considered for banning will be notified by PM or e-mail of this action.

Warren Doyle was not banned from the thread because other people bad-mouthed him. He was banned for his own actions.

And the Karl Metzger thread slowed down principally when Karl was injured and unable to finish the hike in record time.

A-Train
09-21-2008, 11:41
I did not read this entire thread, so I apologize for that.

In general, the new WB is a lot less contraversial, and hence more boring, but that's OK. If you come here to seek thrills, you're probably not looking in the right area.

What we had with the old Whiteblaze was freedom of speech, but with that, somewhat organized chaos where many respected people were tarnishing their reputation and coming off like asses (yours truly included) at the expense of internet wars. It was silly, unproductive and a huge time-waster.

I applaud the new moderation. It's efficient, keeps the dialogue straight forward and has made me get off the 'puter and go do some more interesting things with my life!

Bearpaw
09-21-2008, 11:49
All right folks, I've cleaned up the thread to try to keep things on track and to avoid violating the TOS. To those whose posts were deleted simply for responding to that initial deleted post, I apologize. Shades of Gray, thank you for one of those posts, which helped me make sense of the whole situation and put things back on track. You were quite correct.

I re-opened this thread because I think it is worthwhile for members to be able to express their concerns about the site's direction. I also think it is good for the admins and mods to offer our perspective. Both are important. I don't think most members or moderators have an "Us vs. Them" outlook, but for those who do, it's worth all parties understanding why and what can be done about it.

Thanks for your patience.

Darwin again
09-21-2008, 12:00
then stop coming here. extremely simple

I'm thinking that if you stopped coming here, quite a few people would be happy.

Lone Wolf
09-21-2008, 12:02
I'm thinking that if you stopped coming here, quite a few people would be happy.

nah, just 2 or 3. i'm well-loved

Cuffs
09-21-2008, 12:05
Love you Wolfie!

superman
09-21-2008, 12:06
In 99, I was regular reader on Trailplace. I didn't post much. I was trying very hard to sort out the real deal information from the wanabe, theoretical stuff. There was a ton of good information about gear, huts vs. tenting, re-supply etc, etc. Trail etiquette was dictated and in hind sight more right than wrong. The trail etiquette part may have been, as Wingfoot wanted the trail to be, not always as it was. Many of the things he railed against such as communication devices, hiking sticks and dogs continued to grow in spite of his efforts. He censored far more than WB does today. When I hiked the LT in 99 a AT hiker named Banjo Man patiently spent hours explaining trail etiquette to me. I wish a lot of these young hikers today had heard him. Maybe we wouldn't have as many bad behavior incidents on the AT. In my opinion it's not so much censorship on WB as requiring a reasonable level if civility and courtesy in posts. On the other hand maybe yall are just wrong and I'm right.

Jason of the Woods
09-21-2008, 12:19
See, and all of the rest of us think we are right too. That's why we sometimes don't play well together.;)

emerald
09-21-2008, 12:36
Actually, I like playing with Jason and I think my posts in response to his demonstrate it. I'd just appreciate it if he would stop singing a certain song which is inconsistent with the programming here.:welcome

superman
09-21-2008, 12:40
Actually, I like playing with Jason and I think my posts in response to his demonstrate it. I'd just appreciate it if he would stop singing a certain song which is inconsistent with the programming here.:welcome
Dang, I hope you don't go and call for a group hug. if you do I'm leaving.:D

emerald
09-21-2008, 12:58
Don't count on it! I ain't hugging no stinking hikers.:rolleyes:

Besides, that would involve a public display of affection and I haven't even met most of you.

halibut15
09-21-2008, 13:07
JOTW, you still don't get it about discussing such issues here, trolling or neither contributing anything useful where people seeking to prepare themselves for A.T. hikes are looking for information, not to spend their lives in the wading pool.;)

This seems to be a big point brought up multiple times in this thread, that WB exists solely as a place for an exchange of info on the AT. Many seem to express the opinion that anything (and I mean anything) other than a strict sharing of info is unnecessary and therefore should never be posted, whether it be offensive or not. While WB does seem to be a great atmosphere in which to exchange info, just scroll up to the top banner and you'll see it described as "A community of AT enthusiasts," not "an online AT fact book." To me that means we should be able to discuss whatever we want (within legal and civil bounds, of course) that might be applicable to such a community...even if it's wildly irrelevant, sarcastic, or downright funny.

From the "about WB" section of this very site:
"One person does not own WhiteBlaze. Everyone on this site shares a piece of it." Shouldn't we all get an opinion on how things are moderated, then, or exactly what topics we can/should discuss? To me, that freedom is what makes the AT so great. :-?

emerald
09-21-2008, 13:21
Sometimes trolls and people who fail to read or comprehend the thread should be ignored, other times they ought to be engaged directly. Still other times, it is better to let someone else respond and install one's broadband service instead.

camojack
09-21-2008, 14:54
I'm thinking that if I stopped coming here, quite a few people would be happy.
There's no doubt about that. None whatsoever...

halibut15
09-21-2008, 15:13
......and thus this thread devolved into personal attacks too. Blah.

superman
09-21-2008, 16:36
......and thus this thread devolved into personal attacks too. Blah.

Actually I'm amazed that this thread has had the legs that it has. It struck me as being like the Seinfeld Show...much to do about nothing. WB was what it was and is what it is. Now as before if your not happy with it there are other places to go and other things to do. To me WB is like picking a scab...you know you shouldn't...but what the heck.:-?

modiyooch
09-21-2008, 16:55
I think it would help if we could edit our posts. There are times that I think certain situations could be avoided, due to a change of heart. I do realize that if I donate I can have that privilige. Why is that, anyway?

weary
09-21-2008, 17:23
I think it would help if we could edit our posts. There are times that I think certain situations could be avoided, due to a change of heart. I do realize that if I donate I can have that privilige. Why is that, anyway?
Let's see if we can figure it out. Running a site like this costs money. Do you suppose selling the ability to edit is simply to provide an incentive to get people to help pay the bills?

Weary

modiyooch
09-21-2008, 17:35
not really.

ed bell
09-21-2008, 17:52
not really.In your case.

Yukon
09-21-2008, 18:18
I still don't get it, if you don't want to read it, DON'T CLICK ON IT. And saying you have to "weed" through stuff is the lamest excuse out there because If you don't subscribe to the forum then you won't be "weeding" through anything. It's pure laziness and people just wanting to whine about something, it must be in their DNA. You have a forum where people can say what they want, and they go in there KNOWING that anything goes, so they have nothing to cry about if they don't like what is said. There is no moderation needed unless something absolutely ridiculous like a threat against someone's life or anything to that effect is mentioned. People try to make the arguement that it will spill into the other forums but this a rare occurence, and that's when the mods need to do their jobs. It's pretty sad this even has to be discussed really...

Homer&Marje
09-21-2008, 18:28
Jason: I'm not going to comment on what I think is "OK" or not OK as I don't know the facts here. But speaking purely from my own experience, if you have a beef or complaint about site moderation, you'll probably get further by talking to the individual Moderator privately. Ask questions, voice concern, and I'm sure you'll get a polite and very prompt response. If you're wondering why a comment of yours was removed or delted, all you need do is ask the Moderator why this was done, and he'll certainly tell you. Did you ever do this?

I agree with you Jason on many topics.... and this one I agree as well, although I didn't know the old WB and would have probably fit in great.

But the mods do keep a lot of things in check and will be more than willing to talk to you about ways to "avert" pissing them off. So I'm gonna have to go with Jack and say try and work it out... Alligator has always been real nice to me even when I was on moderated status, and for those of you that don't know... moderated status sucks. Thats my 1 cent. (not allowed to post my other 1 cent or I would have given my full 2 cents)

Blissful
09-21-2008, 18:38
I'm glad for the moderators, they have a really tough job. I moderated a Yahoo group site and it was really tough stuff. I don't wish to be in their shoes. And then you have to deal with people flaming you for trying to keep a site from dissolving into chaos and fellow hikers getting trampled.

Several hikers on the trail last year - when I told them I was on White Blaze -complained that WB was too hostile. Now we have a great, informative site for hikers that want to hike the AT and other trails. If people want something else, buy a site and set up flame wars. We are a culture that loves sensationlism. When the tabloid fight is gone, the fun is perceived to be gone. WB shouldn't be about sensationalism. Or fighting. It should be hikers helping hikers and the trails we love.

Pokey2006
09-21-2008, 18:44
What is all this "First Amendment" and "freedom of speech" talk? Newspapers are the traditional upholders of the First Amendment, and I'd really like to see any one of you get a letter to the editor published in your local paper that contains hateful speech, personal attacks or that mentions illegal activities. Good luck with that.

If you want true freedom of speech, you need to start your own publication or website.

Many years ago, at a paper I worked for, a local guy kept writing columns that the editor thought were irresponsible, so he banned him from the paper. The guy went and started his own rag. The stuff he prints is deplorable, and I'm shocked he hasn't had his butt sued off (though a lot of it is rather funny and entertaining). But, he still prints that rag, years and years later. And he is still banned from the "regular" newspaper. THAT is freedom of speech.

I agree that being over-moderated is rather distasteful. I don't like it either. It seems to simply be a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of us.

modiyooch
09-21-2008, 18:51
I still don't get it, if you don't want to read it, DON'T CLICK ON IT. And saying you have to "weed" through stuff is the lamest excuse out there because If you don't subscribe to the forum then you won't be "weeding" through anything. It's pure laziness and people just wanting to whine about something, it must be in their DNA. You have a forum where people can say what they want, and they go in there KNOWING that anything goes, so they have nothing to cry about if they don't like what is said. There is no moderation needed unless something absolutely ridiculous like a threat against someone's life or anything to that effect is mentioned. People try to make the arguement that it will spill into the other forums but this a rare occurence, and that's when the mods need to do their jobs. It's pretty sad this even has to be discussed really...I'ts not lame. We don't all live our lives through forums. I'll have an interest in a particular topic. I'll go to work and when I come home and want to catch up on that topic, I find there is now 10 full pages of comments mostly petty cheap shots at each other that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. I have to "weed" thru the cheap shots just to get to the meat of the topic. It's time consuming. I'm all for a separate forum for "off-topic" conversation, but in my experience someone has to push the envelope and filter back into dedicated topics for off-topic remarks. No matter where you set the boundaries, someone will always push it for the sake of pushing it.

Homer&Marje
09-21-2008, 18:55
Oohh, I'll get flamed for this, but having to wade through people's tangents gets annoying when looking for information. I mean really.
Why don't we all start debating abortion? The death penalty? Gun control? Those tangents all denigrate into namecalling, you think this because you think that, blah blah blah. And nothing is ever resolved...

Sounds like the latest presidential debate. Sounds like America. Just like us to have the Freedom Of Speech... and to not allow it at the same time. Consistency is key, either way. I post a lot of crap that gets deleted, and you know what it probably should... as I have said before, Opinions are like A******* everyone has one. they all stink. And there is millions of them.

In case anyone wondered why I didn't enter this thread earlier. I was hiking.

weary
09-21-2008, 18:57
....I agree that being over-moderated is rather distasteful. I don't like it either. It seems to simply be a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of us.
In my opinion, it is not a case of a few bad apples ruining it for the rest of us, but a failure of moderators and administrators to clamp down on sensible enforcement of the basic rules that they post, and then closing down entire forums, such as politics, when their neglect becomes an obvious problem.

Weary

hopefulhiker
09-21-2008, 19:11
I did not blame the moderators. Instead it must have been the complaints of a few anonymous whiners that could not stomach the kinds of discussions on the some of the sub forums. I learned a lot in those discussions as well as shared some viewpoints too. Now it seems that I am just reiterating my gear list of 05 for the newbies and checking out the used gear forum.

modiyooch
09-21-2008, 19:16
In your case.is it effective?

woodsy
09-21-2008, 19:27
I sure miss my editing privileges since my donating membership expired but since the new WB evolved, haven't seen much to comment on so haven't resubscribed, and also cause i'm sceeered to say anything for fear of being moderated/put in doghouse :D.
If and when the ironfisted rules settle down, i'll happily re-donate to help support the site.

Lone Wolf
09-21-2008, 19:28
Sounds like the latest presidential debate. Sounds like America. Just like us to have the Freedom Of Speech... and to not allow it at the same time. Consistency is key, either way. I post a lot of crap that gets deleted, and you know what it probably should... as I have said before, Opinions are like A******* everyone has one. they all stink. And there is millions of them.

In case anyone wondered why I didn't enter this thread earlier. I was hiking.

ain't no such thing as "freedom of speech" on a privately owned website

Tin Man
09-21-2008, 19:38
ain't no such thing as "freedom of speech" on a privately owned website

agreed, but many came to appreciate, then expect, that the old WB allowed more freedom than they do now. change is always difficult at first, but "change" is good or there would be no "progress" :rolleyes: ;) :D :)

FatMan
09-21-2008, 19:39
This thread is a waste of bandwidth. It's WB's play ground and they get to set the rules. If you don't like the rules the best way to get your point across is to vote with your wallet like I did. Last year I donated $100, this year I donated a token $10 just keep my editing rights cause I kant speel reel good.

Fiddleback
09-21-2008, 19:57
IMO, the 'rules', both WB's and those of common etiquette and courtesy, weren't enforced and things got out of hand. The response was similar in nature, again IMO,...an over reaction that closed some of the sub-forums rather than enforce the rules. Still again, IMO, this was the easier way out as the some of the biggest violators of the rules were some of the most senior members of WB. None of this can be substantiated anymore (at least not online) as all the 'violations' are now gone... But the reaction reminded me of those crappy teachers I had who punished the entire class for the misdeeds of one or two.

What civil discourse existed, I miss too. But I have no complaints, and some appreciation for, the current actions by current moderators. But I still can't figure out why the long running thread, "Sheath Knives" continues in the Hammock Camping sub-forum.:-?

FB

Kirby
09-21-2008, 20:07
First amendment issues involving websites only matter when it's a publicly owned website, all bets are off in the private sector.

I know when I've gone awry in threads or placed a thread in a location other than where it belongs, the MOD in charge has sent me a PM explaining the situation and telling me where it went. This happened smoothly with my White Mountain photo thread and the second "Where's Kirby?" thread.

Kirby

ed bell
09-21-2008, 20:21
is it effective?Not in your case.

modiyooch
09-21-2008, 20:31
Not in your case.Well duh.. It was a legit question. Although short, you replies sound a bit condenscending.

SteveJ
09-21-2008, 20:31
<clip>But I still can't figure out why the long running thread, "Sheath Knives" continues in the Hammock Camping sub-forum.:-?FB

chuckle....as one of the new moderators in that forum, I haven't figured that one out, either! I figured, "no harm, no foul," and left it alone......at a stretch, I guess having the "wrong" sheath knife in a hammock is an appropriate topic for the forum....

how's that for thread drift? .....slight improvement, IMHO.....;)

Homer&Marje
09-21-2008, 20:33
agreed, but many came to appreciate, then expect, that the old WB allowed more freedom than they do now. change is always difficult at first, but "change" is good or there would be no "progress" :rolleyes: ;) :D :)

I said I still enjoy the site for it's informational purposes.


ain't no such thing as "freedom of speech" on a privately owned website


Agreed. So should all inalienable rights in the private sector be ignored? Why stop there. Maybe privately owned companies that are not in the corporate sector should pay less than minimum wage and hire all illegal immigrants, without fear of recourse.

Maybe... there should be a political forum for this type of BS to occur. I'll moderate:D

Homer&Marje
09-21-2008, 20:38
Don't take this the wrong way but in interest of discussion. Consistency.


Not in your case.


Well duh.. It was a legit question. Although short, you replies sound a bit condenscending.



2. Offensive posting is not allowed. That includes use of illegal substances, racism, sexism, or posts that ridicule, belittle, taunt, mock, or assault the character of other members. Our policy does not protect people that choose to verbally assault other members that may disagree with them. In essence members can disagree but should remain respectful of the person they disagree with.


Maybe I am wrong. I'm sure at least 66% of the populous would say so:D

weary
09-21-2008, 20:44
I sure miss my editing privileges since my donating membership expired but since the new WB evolved, haven't seen much to comment on so haven't resubscribed, and also cause i'm sceeered to say anything for fear of being moderated/put in doghouse :D.
If and when the ironfisted rules settle down, i'll happily re-donate to help support the site.
My advice is to just give them $10 now -- not more than that -- and see if we can together make some sense of this debacle.

I truly do not know much. But I do know that useful things happen when one trys desperately to keep the chances of communication open.

Weary

Hooch
09-21-2008, 20:50
I'm thinking that if you stopped coming here, quite a few people would be happy.
Lay off the Haterade, man. No need for it, dude.

Kirby
09-21-2008, 20:53
I'm sure if one were to send a polite message to the leadership team of the site, they would receive a polite message back explaining the situation they are inquiring about. Being rude will get you no where.

I personally like to edit my posts.

Kirby

ed bell
09-21-2008, 20:58
Well duh.. It was a legit question. Although short, you replies sound a bit condenscending.Not my intent, just seemed like you answered your own question. So I pointed that out with a pithy response. Turns out I'm not as good at it as others are.:)


Don't take this the wrong way but in interest of discussion. Consistency.

2. Offensive posting is not allowed. That includes use of illegal substances, racism, sexism, or posts that ridicule, belittle, taunt, mock, or assault the character of other members. Our policy does not protect people that choose to verbally assault other members that may disagree with them. In essence members can disagree but should remain respectful of the person they disagree with.


Maybe I am wrong. I'm sure at least 66% of the populous would say so:DC'mon Homer&Marge, I didn't do any of those things and moodyooch didn't either. I think you are over analyzing this.

Homer&Marje
09-21-2008, 21:03
Sorry. I thought over analyzing was the direction of this thread.

Bearpaw
09-21-2008, 21:08
Don't take this the wrong way but in interest of discussion. Consistency.







2. Offensive posting is not allowed. That includes use of illegal substances, racism, sexism, or posts that ridicule, belittle, taunt, mock, or assault the character of other members. Our policy does not protect people that choose to verbally assault other members that may disagree with them. In essence members can disagree but should remain respectful of the person they disagree with.


Maybe I am wrong. I'm sure at least 66% of the populous would say so:D

There is a significant difference here between debate and personal attacks. If you look at it in context, this started with a response that editing being a privilege of donating was a way for WB to pay for server usage. The debate went from one member saying he didn't see the connection and the other saying that was one opinion, but not the total opinion.

This is a far cry from assaulting someone's character or making a personal attack. Despite those who say that WB censors every thing, I use my best judgement about when to intervene. I try as much as possible to let debate happen and NOT delete posts.

BTW, I moderate only in the "General" Forum, "Member Forums and Trip Reports" Forums, and "Other Trails" Forums. I work with other mods in each of these forums as well. Other forum areas have different mods and I am just another member in those forum areas. Exactly how things are covered will vary somewhat as different mods use their own best judgement in how to handle an issue. We're all doing our best.

The only reason I am so prevalent on this thread is that I'm stuck at home while Nashville has a massive gas shortage and I need to save gas for work. Otherwise I would be out living my life. If I hadn't been here, this thread would be shut down, maybe for good. I've kept things open because I agree with Weary that keeping communication open is a good thing when possible.

Tomorrow, I go back to work and won't see WB for most of the day. I hope I don't regret leaving this thread open. Honestly, it's up to you, the members, as to how it runs.

Homer&Marje
09-21-2008, 21:15
I'm going back to the woods.

rickb
09-21-2008, 21:15
I dont want to run anyone off, but if you are not happy here, please go find another site that makes you happy. Just go and shut up about it.

Anyone else see the irony in posts like these?

If that attitude always reigned supreme, WhiteBlaze would never have changed to become what it is today.

:-?

superman
09-21-2008, 21:17
I'm sure if one were to send a polite message to the leadership team of the site, they would receive a polite message back explaining the situation they are inquiring about. Being rude will get you no where.

I personally like to edit my posts.

Kirby

I agree. Being able to edit my post is worth a donation...what ever it is. Earlier I made a post where I left the k out of like. Saying "lie" instead of "like" can change the meaning of a post. That's not to mention the "green envy" the other people have.:):):D

modiyooch
09-21-2008, 21:32
I think the moderators and admin do a great job. They have far more tolerance and patience than I will every have.

weary
09-21-2008, 21:40
...admin do a great job. They have far more tolerance and patience than I will ever have.
Which, of course, is the problem. We need folks to keep on top of day to day violations, so that they are not tempted to give up and close down perfectly legitimate comments and discussions.

Weary

Roland
09-21-2008, 21:56
Note to Moderators and Administrators:
It must be discouraging to bust your backside as you do, only to be criticized as you have been in this thread. Know that the silent majority is grateful for your efforts. Thanks for what you do.


Note to the Whiners:
Fall is the best time of year to be on the A.T. Take a hike!!! :D

modiyooch
09-21-2008, 22:24
Which, of course, is the problem. We need folks to keep on top of day to day violations, so that they are not tempted to give up and close down perfectly legitimate comments and discussions.

Wearywe need self control and better manners.

emerald
09-21-2008, 22:33
I find it interesting that when registering people agree to abide by the terms of service, yet some expect to be able to do otherwise when they post. When they refuse to moderate their own behavior and someone moderates it for them, then they have a problem with being moderated and want everyone to know about it.

Tilly
09-21-2008, 22:41
Sorry. I thought over analyzing was the direction of this thread.

See? Point illustrated.

Wise Old Owl
09-21-2008, 22:43
As a counterpoint, I just wanted to say that in recent weeks, when posts of my own were deleted, Alligator was scrupulously polite when he explained to me the reasons behind his actions. I might not have always agreed with him, but he was always forthright, polite, and very prompt in addressing any questions or problems.

In short, I think his actions as a Moderator here are just fine.

I'm impressed... and I don't mean anything sarcastic by that.

the goat
09-21-2008, 22:51
Is it just me or has anyone else become frustrated with the new White Blaze. Actually the numbers show the answer. There is not nearly the activity on here that there once was. I miss the debates. I miss the Freedom of Speech. I understand that this is a website about the AT but everyone here knows that and have other interests that they sometimes like to express. It's just too bad that they have decided to put some narrow minded Mods in charge of what the rest of us can talk about. The sad fact of the matter is they are only hurting themselves. I have chosen not to spend nearly the time on here that I used to because it's just not that interesting to me anymore. I just really wanted to put this out there whether it does any good or not. Look around though. You don't see a lot of the "big" posters on nearly as much as you used to...:-?

"the old" white blaze = you make an ass out of yourself and it's there forever, for all to see what an ass you are.

"the new" white blaze = you make an ass out of yourself and, with a little help from the mods, no one realizes what an ass you really are.:)

Wise Old Owl
09-21-2008, 23:35
Thank's Goat you really summed it up.

I miss the camaraderie of the old WB, I full realize some (less than 10) folks ruined it for everyone else. It's all about growing up. Let's move on.

Well it almost midnight.... Someone remember to turn off the lights and lock the thread please.

TOW
09-22-2008, 00:22
either the old WB comes back or i will start new hiking site called www.whiteblazeblueblazeyellowblazepinkblaze.net (http://www.whiteblazeblueblazeyellowblazepinkblaze.net)

and anything will be allowed there too..........

bfitz
09-22-2008, 00:39
It seems to me some folks don't know how to handle a heated debate and maintain a little humor at the same time. Funny thing, those same folks who are so offense sensitive don't seem to have the willpower to just avoid the discussions and individuals which cause them such offense. So they invented the "ignore" feature. Sadly, those same individuals can't seem to figure out how to use it, or can't seem to comprehend the concept of "ignore". I remember when I was a little kid I used to get sooooo irritated by my antagonistic little brother. My mom used to say "just ignore him...he's only doing it for the attention you're giving him". Well, at the time that was very difficult. But I eventually learned. You know...by the time I was about 12 years old. What I'm saying is some of these folks are like 45 and stuff. Ya know what I meen? I mean, geez...but anyway...all that arguin and fussin made me several friends along the way. I remember when I first logged on some 6,500 posts ago...there was some kind of debate on a forbidden topic going on and this jerkwad with the handle of Lone Wolf was stirrin the pot and me and a few others got into a heated and fun debate until everyone was scolded and LW confessed he didn't even believe what he'd been sayin and was just havin fun getting everyone stirred up. We all had a laugh...and went on to beat each other up about other things. It was fun. I became friends with many of those people. I really miss the repartee with gang on the political forums with the legalize weed to save the world from global warming debates and stuff. It's gotten so when I log on and read what's on here I'm constantly agreeing with Bluejay and Weary. I mean....if that doesn't mean balance of the universe has been disrupted I don't know what does. I understand that folks get fatigued of constant feuding between certain personalities and beating of dead horses and that kind of thing...but really...with it came a daily reason to log on and just...interact with each other. And lets face it...this website isn't about how to hike or what gear to bring or which data book is more inaccurate...it's about the community, nay...family...that we as group constitute...and just like in families, constant dialog and interaction inevitably leads to friction, but we learn how to love each other by dealing with that. Which is messy, I suppose. But it felt more like a family when we had the mess. And man, I have to say, I really, really, really, seriously miss that stuff more than I could have ever thought I would. So here I am again agreeing with Bluejay and Weary, and ol' Jason of the woods' (who I've also met and enjoyed the company of in person) posts on the subject. Something has changed, and that change left a little hole in my life. Dumb as that sounds.

bfitz
09-22-2008, 00:46
Especially with the election coming up and all the stuff happenning in the world!! Those "thick skinned" political forums really would provide an outlet for a lot of AT hikers desire to talk about such things with eachother and have an AT community dialog on the state of the world.

stranger
09-22-2008, 01:53
The problem with moderation of posts is that one person can voice their opinion about something, directly or indirectly, and if you happen to disagree with that post you might not be able to express your point of view, or it's deleted.

On the other hand posts can go like this:

Bob: Anyone recommend a good sythentic bag?
Joe: Are you crazy use a down bag, where you been?
Bob: I prefer synthetic bags
Joe: You must not have any experience then, down rules!
Mary: Joe you don't have much miles under you belt either, only 4 thru-hikes
Joe: Shut up! How do you know?
Mike: This thread is getting off topic
Mary: Who are you to tell us what to do? I've thru-hiked 43 times!
Bob: How about the Marmot blah blah blah bag? Anyone have it?
Joe: Don't buy Marmot, buy Western Mountaineering cause they are built in America! America rules!
Julie: Hey that's nationalistic and has nothing to do with this thread
Joe: Hell yeah, I support the Iraq war, go Bush!
Mike: I thought we were talking about sythetic bags?
Bob: That was the intention
Mary: We can talk about whatever we want to
Someone else: Can't we all just get along

Nope...we can't all just get along

Tin Man
09-22-2008, 03:07
bfitz has it right. family discussions are educational on many levels. without them the heart and spirit of the wb family is eroding the family and friendship building process. yet, maybe the new wb way will develop into a new path for moving this process forward... or maybe I don't know what the heck i'm talking about. :)

Lone Wolf
09-22-2008, 07:10
Especially with the election coming up and all the stuff happenning in the world!! Those "thick skinned" political forums really would provide an outlet for a lot of AT hikers desire to talk about such things with eachother and have an AT community dialog on the state of the world.

then go to www.billville.me and discuss away with all your little buddies :rolleyes:

Blue Jay
09-22-2008, 07:44
It seems to me some folks don't know how to handle a heated debate and maintain a little humor at the same time..........Ya know what I meen? I mean, geez...but anyway...all that arguin and fussin made me several friends along the way......I really miss the repartee with gang on the political forums with the legalize weed to save the world from global warming debates and stuff.......So here I am again agreeing with Bluejay and Weary, and ol' Jason of the woods' (who I've also met and enjoyed the company of in person) posts on the subject. Something has changed, and that change left a little hole in my life. Dumb as that sounds.

My ongoing "flame wars" with old Fitzy were some of the most fun I've ever had online. I hope he dosen't read this, but I also enjoyed old Diet Coke. I realize it sounded like we hated each other, but this is what guys do. Scream at each other over absolutely nothing and then go out and have a beer. I can understand stopping people who are commiting crimes, but to cut off people just because other people are sooo pathetic they are "harmed" by someone else's "flame war" is clearly in itself pathetic. Sticking their sensitive noses into something they are too boring to understand. Again, I am still grateful White Blaze is here and it is still great. I am hoping Whiteblazers will evolve a backbone in the future.:welcome

NICKTHEGREEK
09-22-2008, 07:55
My ongoing "flame wars" with old Fitzy were some of the most fun I've ever had online. I hope he dosen't read this, but I also enjoyed old Diet Coke. I realize it sounded like we hated each other, but this is what guys do. Scream at each other over absolutely nothing and then go out and have a beer. I can understand stopping people who are commiting crimes, but to cut off people just because other people are sooo pathetic they are "harmed" by someone else's "flame war" is clearly in itself pathetic. Sticking their sensitive noses into something they are too boring to understand. Again, I am still grateful White Blaze is here and it is still great. I am hoping Whiteblazers will evolve a backbone in the future.:welcome
Maybe you should exchange e-mail addresses or even telephone numbers. The technology is there, use it.

TJ aka Teej
09-22-2008, 07:56
I'm lookin' at the join dates of some of the posters who 'miss the old WB'...
I guess 'old' has a new meaning?

superman
09-22-2008, 09:00
A diiferent way of looking at could be...It seems like it's not so easy to make "a one size fits all" web site. Hikers aren't a homogenous bunch who do the same thing on the AT. You've got the Bambies who hug trees and smell flowers as they hike and you've got the tyrannosaurus rex that flattens mountains and eats trail towns. ...and here they are on WB. The moderators keep the rex’s from eating the bambies.

Don't call me bambie!:)

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 09:07
The problem with moderation of posts is that one person can voice their opinion about something, directly or indirectly, and if you happen to disagree with that post you might not be able to express your point of view, or it's deleted.

On the other hand posts can go like this:

Bob: Anyone recommend a good sythentic bag?
Joe: Are you crazy use a down bag, where you been?
Bob: I prefer synthetic bags
Joe: You must not have any experience then, down rules!
Mary: Joe you don't have much miles under you belt either, only 4 thru-hikes
Joe: Shut up! How do you know?
Mike: This thread is getting off topic
Mary: Who are you to tell us what to do? I've thru-hiked 43 times!
Bob: How about the Marmot blah blah blah bag? Anyone have it?
Joe: Don't buy Marmot, buy Western Mountaineering cause they are built in America! America rules!
Julie: Hey that's nationalistic and has nothing to do with this thread
Joe: Hell yeah, I support the Iraq war, go Bush!
Mike: I thought we were talking about sythetic bags?
Bob: That was the intention
Mary: We can talk about whatever we want to
Someone else: Can't we all just get along

Nope...we can't all just get along

That was the most interesting thread I have read, this morning, But 'tis true in all of it's glory. Can I be Joe?

I think a Political forum for all of the "T-Rexes" out there would be nice. Don't we remember anything from the Nazis? Contain, Control, Localize, Diminish. Simple system.

Panzer1
09-22-2008, 09:08
Which, of course, is the problem. We need folks to keep on top of day to day violations, so that they are not tempted to give up and close down perfectly legitimate comments and discussions.

Weary

Why don't we just ban the habitual offerders. I'm willing to bet that most of the problems are caused by a few posters. It would make the job easier for the moderators.

Panzer

max patch
09-22-2008, 09:09
Apparently the whiners have forgotten how this site was a cesspool just a couple months ago which required the owners to shut down for a while as new rules were deemed necessary and were written up.

max patch
09-22-2008, 09:10
Why don't we just ban the habitual offerders. I'm willing to bet that most of the problems are caused by a few posters. It would make the job easier for the moderators.

Panzer

Good common sense solution.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 09:11
Why don't we just ban the habitual offerders. I'm willing to bet that most of the problems are caused by a few posters. It would make the job easier for the moderators.

Panzer

But someone else will join next week. To put it bluntly your talking extermination of a certain entity that makes this site colorful, and different.

I forget whose quote it is, but someones says "Anyone who thinks that 1 doesn't make a difference has never slept in a tent, with a mosquito"

Cuffs
09-22-2008, 09:21
I think a Political forum for all of the "T-Rexes" out there would be nice.

theres http://www.politicsforum.org/
and http://www.politicalforum.com/
and http://www.debatepolitics.com/
and http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/
and http://www.americanpoliticsforum.com/
and this one http://forumpolitics.com/index/ where you can even toss in religion and current affairs.

Take your pick.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 09:23
I am willing to bet that if a political forum was installed for complete off topic posts/arguments/stupid comments then we could avoid 90 % of that BS showing up in regular posts.

I love hiking. I'd be willing to bet that most of you do to? Or maybe not, but I would rather be hiking than talking about it. But when I am not hiking, I like to talk about it. BUT, beating a dead horse can also include talking about the same mundane things all the time. Can anyone honestly tell me that they wouldn't rather have a conversation, about something else other than hiking, maybe for a few minutes but with the same people? And then, the people that don't want to hear it can avoid that forum. Just like all the up tights that avoid the Humor forum because their idea of a joke is spilling starbucks on their polar fleece "Oh, look what i've done hunny bunny, isn't that silly" What I find funny, is the same people whining about posters going off topic and stuff, will enter into a thread and say this...

Bob: Is my Eureka tent good enough for four seasons or should I think about getting myself a Hennesey Hammock with an underquilt winter package?

Dianne: There are plenty of threads on that topic just do a search for it or look it up online... we don't need another thread about TENTS, JESUS!!!!!

I AM SO SICK OF READING THAT!!!!!

Expand your mind folks, think on different planes, culture yourself to the world around you, don't just sit in your own little piece of American Apple Pie and shun the world around you.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 09:28
theres http://www.politicsforum.org/
and http://www.politicalforum.com/
and http://www.debatepolitics.com/
and http://www.politicalcrossfire.com/
and http://www.americanpoliticsforum.com/
and this one http://forumpolitics.com/index/ where you can even toss in religion and current affairs.

Take your pick.


Been there done that. But thanks, You see, I like to connect with people with similar interests, like hikers. Somehow there is a different mentality here and it makes me more comfortable.

I just thought being versatile is a little better. BUT I DON'T MODERATE NOR ADMINISTRATE. And although I believe that there should be a political forum. I also believe the ones who do moderate and administrate do a wonderful job.

I might be and the end of the whip sometimes, a lot, but they are just doing their job, and I want it to be easier for them.

Someone said that there was 10 bad apples on this site? Am I one of them? And seriously, 10 isn't that bad and maybe the MODS know that considering how many people come to this site they can deal with 10.

Panzer1
09-22-2008, 09:35
But someone else will join next week. To put it bluntly your talking extermination of a certain entity that makes this site colorful, and different...

No, not "colorful"... There just high maintanance people who act up to get attention. Just ban them, problem solved.

Panzer

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 09:42
No, not "colorful"... There just high maintanance people who act up to get attention. Just ban them, problem solved.

Panzer

See, that's the problem your labeling people as attention seekers vs. someone who has a different or strong opinion.

I am just saying that there could be a political type of forum for, well threads like this. It seems to have a lot of peoples interest. Or is 10 pages in 2 days not enough? Damn Jason 5 star thread here. how do I vote?

superman
09-22-2008, 10:04
Why don't we just ban the habitual offerders. I'm willing to bet that most of the problems are caused by a few posters. It would make the job easier for the moderators.

Panzer

When my sons were young I umpired Little League. Sportsmanship was out of control in that town. A small number of parents and one coach stirred the pot to the extreme. We umpires had a meeting as to how to straighten the mess out. The first thing we did was to print out the standard policy of sportsmanship in the Little League and we included the actions that could be taken and distributed it. I don't think the offenders even read it. It came down to ejecting the worst trouble maker parents. One of the umps was a town cop so a squad car was standing by when it was done. The offending coach was called to a meeting and a vote was taken to determine if he would lose his team. He kept his team by one vote. I personally thought that those guys weren't going to change but they did. By the end of the season even the offenders appreciated the change. In my opinion it was worth the effort. And we all lived happily ever after.:)

Yukon
09-22-2008, 10:41
Bottom line is, this site will whither away slowly if you don't have some places for open discussion of topics other than that of the AT and hiking. I have seen it happen first hand on a few different forums of which I was a moderator on. With the site I administer I have found that if you have the areas for open discussion it will keep the members logged on more and with that be more active in all of the other forums, and you will rarely need moderation in the regular forums, other than for basic things like moving threads to the correct forum and what not. What absolutely kills me is that these types of forums are by subscription only, how could someone possibly whine about a forum that they can't see unless THEY CHOOSE to be in the forum?? It's so simple it just boggles my mind...

Frosty
09-22-2008, 10:42
Apparently the whiners have forgotten how this site was a cesspool just a couple months ago which required the owners to shut down for a while as new rules were deemed necessary and were written up.No, I don't think they forgot at all. They liked the cesspool. The problem is that they miss it and want it back. They don't see the new rules as necessary. They see them as restrictive. Guys like Jason and Homer are probably fine people, I've never met them, but they cannot understand that they have to follow rules they don't like, that this is not a place for free speech. Sometimes I read posts here and I'm reminded of the Cub Scouts in the den I used to lead. Same attitudes (though by the time they were Webelos, they seemed to have grown out of it).

Still, it is a vast improvement to go from having people be unpleasant and disruptive to merely complaining that they can no longer be unpleasant and disruptive.

So the system IS working.

Wise Old Owl
09-22-2008, 10:45
Apparently the whiners have forgotten how this site was a cesspool just a couple months ago which required the owners to shut down for a while as new rules were deemed necessary and were written up.

What part of WB was a "cesspool" prior to the closing? - I sure never saw it!


I find your comment a bit over the top.

As the prior post said - the system is working!

Gray Blazer
09-22-2008, 10:46
Still, it is a vast improvement to go from having people be unpleasant and disruptive to merely complaining that they can no longer be unpleasant and disruptive.

So the system IS working.

Well put.

Now I'll prolly be deleted for bickering. :-?

Alligator
09-22-2008, 10:53
So, besides drugs and politics what are some of the topics that you folks feel like you can't discuss and want to:-?? Or do you just want to be free to beat the crap out of each other;)?

superman
09-22-2008, 10:57
Well put.

Now I'll prolly be deleted for bickering. :-?

One of the good things I have found in getting older is that I forget things. I wouldn't be offended if a post of mine was deleted because I'd just assume that I misplaced it.:)

max patch
09-22-2008, 11:02
So, besides drugs and politics what are some of the topics that you folks feel like you can't discuss and want to:-?? Or do you just want to be free to beat the crap out of each other;)?

I want to talk about **** ******* but every time I mention his name you delete my post.

Which is what you should do.

fiddlehead
09-22-2008, 11:05
So, besides drugs and politics what are some of the topics that you folks feel like you can't discuss and want to:-?? Or do you just want to be free to beat the crap out of each other;)?

I gave one example back on page 3.
I simply asked a question and YOU deleted it for bashing.

For me, i find myself looking at things differently than the norm i guess.

I see a lot of sheep on here, i sometimes point that out. THings like that get deleted.
I can see what you want. I'm just not conforming to that mindset.

mtnkngxt
09-22-2008, 11:07
x2 on just ban the habitual offenders. The mods have lives just like the rest of us, and they shouldn't have to waste their time dealing with the same people and drama every day. This is a forum for the AT, not politics, not Mary Jane monthly. There are magazines and forums all over the place find one to express your opinions. I post on 5 boards. There is a 4wheel drive board, WB, a gun enthusiast forum, a custom flashlight forum, and a music forum. I don't come here and try to discuss firearms or flashlights or 4 wheel drive issues, because this isn't the forum for it.

Yukon
09-22-2008, 11:13
It seems to me that there are some people that really miss the ability to talk about politics on here, me being one of them. Sure there were some heated debates, in which I undoubtedly was involved sometimes, but I never felt it was ever out of hand because I know it's just a forum and you have to take things with a grain of salt. But I also WANTED to be in that forum, I can't remember if it was a subscription forum or not at the time, but if it was to be reinstated then it should definitely be by subscription only, that way if you don't want to read what's going on in there, you don't have to. Some people just have a knack for making things harder than they really need to be...

Gorp-Gobbler
09-22-2008, 11:16
x2 on just ban the habitual offenders. The mods have lives just like the rest of us, and they shouldn't have to waste their time dealing with the same people and drama every day. This is a forum for the AT, not politics, not Mary Jane monthly. There are magazines and forums all over the place find one to express your opinions. I post on 5 boards. There is a 4wheel drive board, WB, a gun enthusiast forum, a custom flashlight forum, and a music forum. I don't come here and try to discuss firearms or flashlights or 4 wheel drive issues, because this isn't the forum for it.

Well said, mtnkngxt. Now on with the show.

Oh! BYW-Congrats on your decision to go to Med School.

Alligator
09-22-2008, 11:36
I gave one example back on page 3.
I simply asked a question and YOU deleted it for bashing.

For me, i find myself looking at things differently than the norm i guess.

I see a lot of sheep on here, i sometimes point that out. THings like that get deleted.
I can see what you want. I'm just not conforming to that mindset.
This?

I had a post deleted because i mentioned that i couldn't understand why Warren doesn't hike any other trails.
yes it hurt. I still don't understand why i couldn't say that.
I think I could clear that up for you privately by PM if you like, just ask through PM. That's a great way to get things done rather than continuing to gripe about them out in the forums where I might not even see it. Calling out the mods in the forum simply perpetuates the issue and it really works much easier through PM. Sometimes posts get deleted not for content but because they are caught up with other posts that get deleted or the post exacerbates a problem. The post can also involve actions taken in regard to another member and we don't make it a policy of broadcasting every action taken in regard to other members.

Now if you disagree with what I've just written that's your prerogative, but we do find it works much more smoothly that way.

Calling someone a sheep is a personal attack. That falls under the beat the crap out of people section.

Lone Wolf
09-22-2008, 11:37
It seems to me that there are some people that really miss the ability to talk about politics on here, me being one of them. Sure there were some heated debates, in which I undoubtedly was involved sometimes, but I never felt it was ever out of hand because I know it's just a forum and you have to take things with a grain of salt. But I also WANTED to be in that forum, I can't remember if it was a subscription forum or not at the time, but if it was to be reinstated then it should definitely be by subscription only, that way if you don't want to read what's going on in there, you don't have to. Some people just have a knack for making things harder than they really need to be...

this is a HIKING website. there's PLENTY of POLITICAL websites out there for you to join

Yukon
09-22-2008, 11:38
this is a HIKING website. there's PLENTY of POLITICAL websites out there for you to join

Thanks man, I wasn't aware of that...

What you don't GET, is that I would like to hear political views from people on THIS website....

trailangelmary
09-22-2008, 11:40
Sometimes I have to hear all points of view before I decide my view. This has been one of those cases. So now, here is my input.
1 - Some moderators are stricter than others in their moderation. But they all put a lot of time into their volunteer duties. And they are necessary. Personally, in the majority of cases I agree with the deletes and moderated status. I am also a moderator, a newbie moderator. I am moderating only one forum topic to start. It hasn't been difficult yet.
2 - I totally agree with the posters that state they want the political forum back. Talking with family about all different kinds of issues is important to a lot of people. We are from all parts of the country and more and may not see each other very often, so I agree let the family converse. I also agree that the non-hiking forums should be by subscription. So that if you decide to view it, you "have signed the form that you understand what you are getting into."
3 - Some posts may be taken the wrong way if you don't know the person writing. And that has sadly caused some issues. Besides acting like ladies and gentlemen remembering to think before you write is also a good idea for all posters to remember.
4 - Many have mentioned that they miss the "color" of the bickering. I miss some of it also. I agree however that posters who continually agitate do and should have their posts deleted. It's like the person in a bar who agitates to get people worked up and then leaves and the people in the bar ending up in a fight the bartender has to deal with. Not so much fun. I know from experience.
5 - Add a link that automatically goes to the TOS for all new members and members returning from moderated status. So it's "in their face" before joining/ returning. On the bottom of the TOS could be a link to agree and then return them to the page they were on. Some people may just scroll down and not read it. But some will. It can't hurt.

Yukon
09-22-2008, 11:43
Sometimes I have to hear all points of view before I decide my view. This has been one of those cases. So now, here is my input.
1 - Some moderators are stricter than others in their moderation. But they all put a lot of time into their volunteer duties. And they are necessary. Personally, in the majority of cases I agree with the deletes and moderated status. I am also a moderator, a newbie moderator. I am moderating only one forum topic to start. It hasn't been difficult yet.
2 - I totally agree with the posters that state they want the political forum back. Talking with family about all different kinds of issues is important to a lot of people. We are from all parts of the country and more and may not see each other very often, so I agree let the family converse. I also agree that the non-hiking forums should be by subscription. So that if you decide to view it, you "have signed the form that you understand what you are getting into."
3 - Some posts may be taken the wrong way if you don't know the person writing. And that has sadly caused some issues. Besides acting like ladies and gentlemen remembering to think before you write is also a good idea for all posters to remember.
4 - Many have mentioned that they miss the "color" of the bickering. I miss some of it also. I agree however that posters who continually agitate do and should have their posts deleted. It's like the person in a bar who agitates to get people worked up and then leaves and the people in the bar ending up in a fight the bartender has to deal with. Not so much fun. I know from experience.
5 - Add a link that automatically goes to the TOS for all new members and members returning from moderated status. So it's "in their face" before joining/ returning. On the bottom of the TOS could be a link to agree and then return them to the page they were on. Some people may just scroll down and not read it. But some will. It can't hurt.

Perfectly put...if you were into motorcycles I'd have you mod my site in a heartbeat :)

middle to middle
09-22-2008, 11:43
Doesn't anybody hike any more ?

TOW
09-22-2008, 11:43
Why don't we just ban the habitual offerders. I'm willing to bet that most of the problems are caused by a few posters. It would make the job easier for the moderators.

Panzerthe problem with that would be that eventually every one of us would get band, then no more WB..........poof!

Lone Wolf
09-22-2008, 11:46
What you don't GET, is that I would like to hear political views from people on THIS website....

well man, that's what PMs and e-mails are for. get it?

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 11:52
No, I don't think they forgot at all. They liked the cesspool. The problem is that they miss it and want it back. They don't see the new rules as necessary. They see them as restrictive. Guys like Jason and Homer are probably fine people, I've never met them, but they cannot understand that they have to follow rules they don't like, that this is not a place for free speech. Sometimes I read posts here and I'm reminded of the Cub Scouts in the den I used to lead. Same attitudes (though by the time they were Webelos, they seemed to have grown out of it).

Still, it is a vast improvement to go from having people be unpleasant and disruptive to merely complaining that they can no longer be unpleasant and disruptive.

So the system IS working.

I think I can for the most part. Thank you, I will never grow out of my opinion. I was taught differently, to stand up for what I believe in.

AM I BEATING MY HEAD AGAINST A WALL. It's like everyone only reads the negative I have to say, So I will highlight my own points for you that people obviously missed.


Been there done that. But thanks, You see, I like to connect with people with similar interests, like hikers. Somehow there is a different mentality here and it makes me more comfortable.

I just thought being versatile is a little better. BUT I DON'T MODERATE NOR ADMINISTRATE. And although I believe that there should be a political forum. I also believe the ones who do moderate and administrate do a wonderful job.

I might be and the end of the whip sometimes, a lot, but they are just doing their job, and I want it to be easier for them.

Someone said that there was 10 bad apples on this site? Am I one of them? And seriously, 10 isn't that bad and maybe the MODS know that considering how many people come to this site they can deal with 10.


I am willing to bet that if a political forum was installed for complete off topic posts/arguments/stupid comments then we could avoid 90 % of that BS showing up in regular posts.

I love hiking. I'd be willing to bet that most of you do to? Or maybe not, but I would rather be hiking than talking about it. But when I am not hiking, I like to talk about it. BUT, beating a dead horse can also include talking about the same mundane things all the time. Can anyone honestly tell me that they wouldn't rather have a conversation, about something else other than hiking, maybe for a few minutes but with the same people? And then, the people that don't want to hear it can avoid that forum. Just like all the up tights that avoid the Humor forum because their idea of a joke is spilling starbucks on their polar fleece "Oh, look what i've done hunny bunny, isn't that silly" What I find funny, is the same people whining about posters going off topic and stuff, will enter into a thread and say this...

Bob: Is my Eureka tent good enough for four seasons or should I think about getting myself a Hennesey Hammock with an underquilt winter package?

Dianne: There are plenty of threads on that topic just do a search for it or look it up online... we don't need another thread about TENTS, JESUS!!!!!

I AM SO SICK OF READING THAT!!!!!

Expand your mind folks, think on different planes, culture yourself to the world around you, don't just sit in your own little piece of American Apple Pie and shun the world around you.


I agree with you Jason on many topics.... and this one I agree as well, although I didn't know the old WB and would have probably fit in great.

But the mods do keep a lot of things in check and will be more than willing to talk to you about ways to "avert" pissing them off. So I'm gonna have to go with Jack and say try and work it out... Alligator has always been real nice to me even when I was on moderated status, and for those of you that don't know... moderated status sucks. Thats my 1 cent. (not allowed to post my other 1 cent or I would have given my full 2 cents)

mtnkngxt
09-22-2008, 11:54
Or just invite your WB friends to a POLITICAL FORUM where ALL OF YOU can discuss politics. Wow what a concept. If we're going to start adding sub forums can we have one for pre med discussion, oh oh and how about one for house remodeling because I like that topic as well. I'd also like to see a sub forum for logging and maybe for pro deforestation.

Yukon
09-22-2008, 11:55
well man, that's what PMs and e-mails are for. get it?

Sorry Wolf, I think you're a cool guy and a wealth of information with anything to do with the AT, (which I hope to be able to ask you questions when I do my thru someday), but we just won't agree here...no harm, no foul...

weary
09-22-2008, 12:03
I prefer the kinder, mellower WB. Maybe it's my age but I've already had my fill of being called names. .....
Posts that do nothing but call names should be deleted and if the practice persists, those who do so should be banned.

Instead we delete all political commentary, including that which is related to the trail.

Weary

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 12:04
Or just invite your WB friends to a POLITICAL FORUM where ALL OF YOU can discuss politics. Wow what a concept. If we're going to start adding sub forums can we have one for pre med discussion, oh oh and how about one for house remodeling because I like that topic as well. I'd also like to see a sub forum for logging and maybe for pro deforestation.


And I am over analyzing?

warraghiyagey
09-22-2008, 12:06
I'm not well versed in the differences between the 'old' and 'new' WB but this thread certainly harkens to the former. ;):sun

Alligator
09-22-2008, 12:09
House remodeling I'll go for. I'm remodeling my kitchen, where exactly do I put the outlet for an over the range microwave? Is anyplace directly behind the microwave good?

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 12:16
You'll want to counter sink that plug into the wall as to avoid a gap.

I'll admit to half the BS if you give me a better place to put it.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 12:22
It's funny. Jason of the Woods started a great debate, and whether we like to admit it or not, it has gotten more replies than MOST of the hiking threads. Isn't that odd, for a hiking website. Maybe we all like our nose in "politics" more than we thought. If that's not obvious, open your eyes. And where is Jason...Maybe he's hiking. Hope he comes back for the Grande Finale

warraghiyagey
09-22-2008, 12:24
House remodeling I'll go for. I'm remodeling my kitchen, where exactly do I put the outlet for an over the range microwave? Is anyplace directly behind the microwave good?
It's very important to know the depth of your microwave. Othwerwise you may end up with a plug that sticks out where you want your microwave and therefore not be able to push the unit back far enough. Good rule of thumb, put it just above the microwave so as to be able to access it more easily if and when needed.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 12:27
It's very important to know the depth of your microwave. Othwerwise you may end up with a plug that sticks out where you want your microwave and therefore not be able to push the unit back far enough. Good rule of thumb, put it just above the microwave so as to be able to access it more easily if and when needed.

I think Sub ducting it into the wall is really the way to go... that way you can't see it, even from farther away angles of the kitchen, Then again you could just put a nice kitchen herb garden on top to conceal the unsightly plug.

Alligator
09-22-2008, 12:29
I don't know if you realize it Homer, but the site had a Politics forum. There were less than 90 people in it, and not all of them were active there. It repeatedly got out of hand and was closed. At this time, there is no interest at the admin level to fix it.

warraghiyagey
09-22-2008, 12:33
I think Sub ducting it into the wall is really the way to go...

That would be against the national electric code.;):):)

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 12:34
I don't know if you realize it Homer, but the site had a Politics forum. There were less than 90 people in it, and not all of them were active there. It repeatedly got out of hand and was closed. At this time, there is no interest at the admin level to fix it.

Well that's good to know, your right I had no idea. I think I posted before that "I didn't know the old WB". Therefor as stated am basing my opinions on current knowledge. I do most of my political debating here via PM and am fine to keep it that way. IT'S NOT MY SITE. Nor is it the site of most of the people pitching the other side of the argument. Have I posted anything "out of line" since you took me off moderated status? Was I not forthcoming and fully ready to admit where I had done wrong? I have resided to keeping it via PM with the few people that I talk to on a regular basis, they know who they are. I would like more people to see the same opinions on things sometimes. But for now, until one day someone does resurect that forum, I will keep it private. You know, except for this thread:D

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 12:34
That would be against the national electric code.;):):)

Not if you insulate it with fire retardant foam.

Alligator
09-22-2008, 12:58
It's very important to know the depth of your microwave. Othwerwise you may end up with a plug that sticks out where you want your microwave and therefore not be able to push the unit back far enough. Good rule of thumb, put it just above the microwave so as to be able to access it more easily if and when needed.


I think Sub ducting it into the wall is really the way to go... that way you can't see it, even from farther away angles of the kitchen, Then again you could just put a nice kitchen herb garden on top to conceal the unsightly plug.It's due to be delivered today but there will be a cabinet above it. It's been bugging me and I still have to put in the two 20 amp counter top lines. It will be inspected.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 13:11
It's due to be delivered today but there will be a cabinet above it. It's been bugging me and I still have to put in the two 20 amp counter top lines. It will be inspected.

Is there going to be a vent hole to exhaust the microwave to the outside? If so your going to need a few inches of play behind the unit anyways. If there is a cabinet above the microwave, I can only assume there will be a "cabinet" or at least walls around the microwave so as to not notice the gap from the wall. Just assemble the plug unit right behind the microwave unit, or above it as suggested by Warrag...Sp? who knows.....for easy access to it:D

superman
09-22-2008, 13:18
Is this the forum to ask how to get the rear shock absorber off my Jimmy? The rubber grommet is like it's welded to the lower bolt. Both my pnuematic wrenchs won't break it free of the bolt. I've lubed it and got the rubber grommet to barely turn on the outside using a breaker bar but it won't break free of the bolt. It's a bit close to the gas tank to put the torch to it.:D

Alligator
09-22-2008, 13:20
Can you get a sawz-all on it?

Gray Blazer
09-22-2008, 13:28
I'm not well versed in the differences between the 'old' and 'new' WB but this thread certainly harkens to the former. ;):sun

HEY!! HEY!! You've got your own thread to moderate!!

weary
09-22-2008, 13:29
......
#5 Do not post inflammatory messages, spam, “off topic” posts, or hijack topics.......
Hmmm. Alligator. Tell us again about Rule 5.

Weary

Alligator
09-22-2008, 13:41
How about TOS #3 Weary, because you just don't seem to be able to let the politics forum drop;).

Since I'm waiting here for a response as to what topics (besides politics and drugs) appear of interest, I thought it would be useful to get a little of my own information. Also, I wanted to present an example of how there are a host of other topics that could be on WB but it's a hiking site.

None of the admins have any particular interest in future moderating duties in a politics forum, and given past behavior, that's what is needed. So if we are going to "improve" WB, let's find some new forums that folks might actually want and have willing mods. Home improvement and car repair sound good.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 13:42
Hmmm. Alligator. Tell us again about Rule 5.

Weary

I think he made a wonderful point of how "off topic" posts kill good threads.

bfitz
09-22-2008, 13:42
Lone Wolf, you say go join a political website to discuss politics, but I dont want to discuss politics with those people, I want to discuss it with you, and my whiteblaze friends like we used to. I know it ain't coming back, all good things shall pass. I'm just mourning at this point because Ill never get to hear you make an off color remark or jack call someone a douche again or Weary call me stupid for the trillionth time. Though it would be nice to go back and read the old pot smoking weed puffing hippies thread (started by Lone Wolf!!!) for the sheer nostalgia. Some of the funniest posts ever on this site were on that thread, and it was one of the longest running. Seems like everyone enjoyed it but the usual fuddy duddies who would insert their offendedness into every thread they could find a reason to. Oh well. The umbrage-mongerers get the bland website they always wanted. Because I dont blame the moderators. They always bent over backwards to allow the most leeway possible and still do...but the folks who would constantly jump into every thread and start complaining about other peoples posts to the mods until they just couldnt diplomatically handle all the bitchen anymore. Ok I admit, now Im trolling. But seriously....I read all the same stuff everyone else was reading and I didnt really see what the problem was. Seems to me a bunch of folks got their panties in a twist and since they bitch the most to the mods they got the grease.

hopefulhiker
09-22-2008, 13:52
Yeah, I miss those posts too Bfitz... Like I would really like to talk about where everyone is putting their money right now to save for that future thru hike, but that would be hijacking the thread....

weary
09-22-2008, 14:03
Political topics are allowed in the context of the AT and hiking. That is a problem because of the line and where it is drawn. Other than that folks are free to make their point.
Alligator:

From time to time I mildly test to see if what Ed says in this post is true. So far it has been invariably false.

Weary

Alligator
09-22-2008, 14:03
That's not a fair representation Bfitz. There were also many instances of things going over the line in all the forums. You might think that everyone's just kidding around but not everyone was. There were too many personal attacks without the argument even involving the topic. Just one great big gotcha game, it didn't matter what was being discussed.

Yukon
09-22-2008, 14:04
Site had more jazz back when the politics forum was alive and kicking, seems to have gone real bland as of late...not that I'll go anywhere else, this site is the reason that I have decided I want to do a thru hike someday, and the reason I want to spend all kinds of money on new gear!! :) :)

Hell I'll moderate the politics forum (though it's greatly doubtful I'd ever get the position LOL), it's pathetically easy to moderate a subscription-only forum...

Alligator
09-22-2008, 14:10
Yeah, I miss those posts too Bfitz... Like I would really like to talk about where everyone is putting their money right now to save for that future thru hike, but that would be hijacking the thread....It's unfortunate that you started so many partisan non-AT political posts yourself Hopeful instead of focusing on the AT. Maybe the politics forum would still be around:-?.

Alligator
09-22-2008, 14:13
Alligator:

From time to time I mildly test to see if what Ed says in this post is true. So far it has been invariably false.

WearyShow me where you are talking about.

weary
09-22-2008, 14:21
Show me where you are talking about.
I posted something recently about the impact of the bail out of the financial system on the Forest Legacy program, which our MATLT seeks to use to provide buffers to the narrow trail corridor between Rangeley and the Bigelow Preserve.

That post seems to have disappeared. At least I can't find it.

Weary

hopefulhiker
09-22-2008, 14:26
To the best of my knowledge, Alligator, I have never violated the rules of this website and I never complained about other's posts. I still post, contribute and read other threads.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 14:30
I wasn't there for the political forum, or at least never got involved. But Alligator you stated earlier that it wasn't even 90 people involved so it wasn't worth it.

A political debate between 80 something people usually turns into a good discussion. We've gotten 12 pages of material here from less than half that.

Alligator
09-22-2008, 14:32
I posted something recently about the impact of the bail out of the financial system on the Forest Legacy program, which our MATLT seeks to use to provide buffers to the narrow trail corridor between Rangeley and the Bigelow Preserve.

That post seems to have disappeared. At least I can't find it.

WearyThe weekend bailout huh? That's the problem you have Weary, you try to make every political situation into a problem about the trail. You have an entirely too broad definition. The bail out doesn't affect that program specifically, it's still being negotiated. But it's likely to be a cross government impact.

And you know that, and yet spin it to make it about the trail because you can't respect the decision that was made. In fact, you repeatedly fail to do that. Just another example of why we are not interested in fixing the politics forum, a lack of respect for the boundaries. I could quote where the admins noted this behavior on your part when looking for a solution.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 14:36
I'm so glad it's my day off work. Does anyone have a good recipe for Macaroons? :D

bfitz
09-22-2008, 14:40
How about TOS #3 Weary, because you just don't seem to be able to let the politics forum drop;).

Since I'm waiting here for a response as to what topics (besides politics and drugs) appear of interest, I thought it would be useful to get a little of my own information. Also, I wanted to present an example of how there are a host of other topics that could be on WB but it's a hiking site.

None of the admins have any particular interest in future moderating duties in a politics forum, and given past behavior, that's what is needed. So if we are going to "improve" WB, let's find some new forums that folks might actually want and have willing mods. Home improvement and car repair sound good.Politics and drugs are the topics we're talking about here. But it's not just the forbidden topics, it's something else...whenever a thread starts to drift towards disagreement or someone is criticized the mods step in and close the thread. You know...its possible the no smoking drunk driving thread might have gone south but who cares? Who was reading it anyway but the folks involved? Just sayin. A little drama really helped keep the site interesting, and as someone pointed out, this thread has a lot of views and posts. More than most threads of the same age.

bfitz
09-22-2008, 14:45
It's unfortunate that you started so many partisan non-AT political posts yourself Hopeful instead of focusing on the AT. Maybe the politics forum would still be around:-?.But that's what the politics forum was for right? I see the point of being focused on things more directly associated with the AT as far as this website, but the forum wasn't closed because it was taking up too much space on the site, right? It was closed because the posts were considered offensive by some and drew complaints, by my read, anyway.

Lone Wolf
09-22-2008, 14:46
Is it just me or has anyone else become frustrated with the new White Blaze.

not at all. me and a bunch of others have another website of our own out in cyberland

OregonHiker
09-22-2008, 14:53
not at all. me and a bunch of others have another website of our own out in cyberland

Elitist :sun

Alligator
09-22-2008, 14:55
Politics and drugs are the topics we're talking about here. But it's not just the forbidden topics, it's something else...whenever a thread starts to drift towards disagreement or someone is criticized the mods step in and close the thread. You know...its possible the no smoking drunk driving thread might have gone south but who cares? Who was reading it anyway but the folks involved? Just sayin. A little drama really helped keep the site interesting, and as someone pointed out, this thread has a lot of views and posts. More than most threads of the same age.Another unfair characterization. We do work hard at trying to keep threads open, you perceive what you want to perceive. You don't see where posts have been deleted nor the content. That thread had some posts removed from it. Go back up to what The Goat wrote.

This thread has a lot of views because some of you like to watch people beat the crap out of each other. It is not the main focus of the site. You folks are unable to do that in a controlled manner:D. The middle ground does not work for that:p. People just get downright nasty with one another.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 14:57
not at all. me and a bunch of others have another website of our own out in cyberland

"When I grow up, I want to be a Principle or a Caterpillar" -Ralph Wigum

TJ aka Teej
09-22-2008, 14:58
Does anyone have a good recipe for Macaroons? :D
My lesbian dog, the local Green party candidate for mountain-top windmills, has one in her external frame pack with her moonshine and cell phone down the blue blazed handicapped trail to the gun club where I cleared a spot in the pot garden with Agent Orange for my hammock, ATV, and horse.

Panzer1
09-22-2008, 15:01
Just ban the habitual offernders for 1 year. If the start trouble when they come back, then ban them for 3 years....

Panzer

OregonHiker
09-22-2008, 15:01
Who was reading it anyway but the folks involved?


Just admit that you were wrong :cool:

Blissful
09-22-2008, 15:05
not at all. me and a bunch of others have another website of our own out in cyberland

Now I'm curious. I miss some folks here that have gone on to wider pastures. I thought they had a lot of good things to say. :( Where are you???

I just know that there were some that hated each other and threads turned into boxing matches. Someone had to blow the whistle to stop the match sometime. There were getting to be a lot of bloody noses and WB was getting tarnished.

Actually this thread has been pretty civil and interesting, really. I mean, opinionated but not bloody. Yet...

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 15:06
My lesbian dog, the local Green party candidate for mountain-top windmills, has one in her external frame pack with her moonshine and cell phone down the blue blazed handicapped trail to the gun club where I cleared a spot in the pot garden with Agent Orange for my hammock, ATV, and horse.

You weren't within a 1/4 mile of a wilderness protection area when all this happened were you? Cause I would be pissed. Beyond pissed. I...I...Iwould... I don't know what I would do.:D

Lone Wolf
09-22-2008, 15:08
"When I grow up, I want to be a Principle or a Caterpillar" -Ralph Wigum

which are you? or maybe you ain't grown up yet

Alligator
09-22-2008, 15:08
But that's what the politics forum was for right? I see the point of being focused on things more directly associated with the AT as far as this website, but the forum wasn't closed because it was taking up too much space on the site, right? It was closed because the posts were considered offensive by some and drew complaints, by my read, anyway.It was closed because it was downright nasty in there. Ugly.

The politics forum existed to draw political posts away from the main site. It wasn't created to be a fight club.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 15:10
It was closed because it was downright nasty in there. Ugly.

The politics forum existed to draw political posts away from the main site. It wasn't created to be a fight club.

Can we start a fight club? I'll moderate:D

sherrill
09-22-2008, 15:14
My lesbian dog, the local Green party candidate for mountain-top windmills, has one in her external frame pack with her moonshine and cell phone down the blue blazed handicapped trail to the gun club where I cleared a spot in the pot garden with Agent Orange for my hammock, ATV, and horse.

Unleashed, I assume.

WetBottom
09-22-2008, 15:14
It wasn't created to be a fight club.

It's a good thing too... because this whole thread would totally be breaking the first rule of fight club.

:D

Blissful
09-22-2008, 15:15
Can we start a fight club? I'll moderate:D


Go make your macaroons. :cool: But if you do, use parchment paper or they stick like crazy to the cookie sheet.

I made brownies today.

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 15:21
Unleashed, I assume.

I would never assume someone would dare "control" their dog with a leash. That's inhumane.

trailangelmary
09-22-2008, 15:22
On the record, I would be willing to moderate a political forum if you ever decide to resurrect it, Alligator. And also given that it be by subscription only. With a Title bar on every thread saying ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! (I'm serious)
I would also be willing to moderate a home remodeling or car repairs forum!

jhick
09-22-2008, 15:25
not at all. me and a bunch of others have another website of our own out in cyberland

.......;)

Homer&Marje
09-22-2008, 15:27
On the record, I would be willing to moderate a political forum if you ever decide to resurrect it, Alligator. And also given that it be by subscription only. With a Title bar on every thread saying ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! (I'm serious)
I would also be willing to moderate a home remodeling or car repairs forum!


You really are an angel. Look how much interest this has drawn. I think (know) that the person that started this thread is very proud of how much attention it has drawn. I would be too. Seriously, best thread, and probably the best opinions have come out of both sides on this argument. It didn't get out of hand and we were all respectful.

THIS IS HOW IT WOULD HAVE TO BE. For anyone, if it ever happens.

Will look forward to future threads by Jason of The Woods.

Cookerhiker
09-22-2008, 15:30
Just returning after 10 days of no internet. I didn't read all the posts on this thread but FWIW, I like the new WB just fine. It's still an excellent source of AT info & experiences - isn't that the point?

Marta
09-22-2008, 15:36
Just ban the habitual offernders for 1 year. If the start trouble when they come back, then ban them for 3 years....

Panzer

That is definitely an easy way out. Whiteblaze has a whole lot of members who were banned from another hiking website that favored the banning method of message control. The problem with banning is that you lose the good stuff people might contribute as well as the bad.

What Whiteblaze is trying to do is much more complicated, which is to keep things more or less civil while keeping the boundries pretty far out there. Is it easy to figure out what's acceptable and what's not? Of course not. Moderators are chosen because they have volunteered to waste...I mean, spend their time pouring over all sorts of threads they might otherwise not bother to read, and try to figure out how to keep the posters legal (i.e., not advocating or giving advice on how to break laws, however dumb those laws might be) and relatively civil to each other.

Politics...yes, you can bring every subject back to its political origins, just as a Freudian can bring every subject back to sex. But this website is not primarily about politics, nor about sex, fascinating as both those subjects might be.

I digress... You can control a teenager by locking her in a tower and throwing away the key. Or you can let her get out and about and learn by making mistakes, and discussing it afterwards. It's messy, but it works.

The teenager in this case can either be the posters or the moderators; the analogy fits both sides.

Lone Wolf
09-22-2008, 15:37
On the record, I would be willing to moderate a political forum if you ever decide to resurrect it, Alligator. And also given that it be by subscription only. With a Title bar on every thread saying ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! (I'm serious)
I would also be willing to moderate a home remodeling or car repairs forum!

political forums have no place at WB. period