Few Q's about my gear for an 09 NOBO

[GeoHiker]

I am planning a NOBO beginning early March 09. I know it can be pretty chilly on the trail that early in the year and I had a few questions about Thermals, a down jacket and rain gear.

First, is a down jacket necessary if i have capilene 3 top and bottoms? I was thinking that it was for camp. I am thinking about getting a Mountain Hardware Sub Zero. any one know if its durable enough/warm enough? Is it a good jacket for this purpose?

Second, the capilene 3 is it as good as patagonia says it is? any thoughts on other thermals?

Third, Rain gear. I am planning on getting precip jacket and pants. any thoughts? are pants necessary if you have quick dry pants already? I know a major storm it wont matter if they are quick dry, I just HATE wet socks, as im sure everyone else does.

Thanks for your input and advise

[Tagless]

The following comments are based on my experience hiking the AT (Georgia) late February early March...


First, is a down jacket necessary if i have capilene 3 top and bottoms? I was thinking that it was for camp.

Yes, some type of insulating jacket probably may be helpful on some days. There are many nice down options as well as synthetic versions. I have a lightweight Montbell synthetic jacket and that is working out well. Synthetic material is nice as it doesn't lose much warming ability (i.e. when it gets wet) as opposed to down. You are correct in that you probably won't ever hike with this, but you will really appreciate it in camp.


Second, the capilene 3 is it as good as patagonia says it is?

Yep - got it - love it!


Third, Rain gear. I am planning on getting precip jacket and pants. any thoughts? are pants necessary if you have quick dry pants already?

Precip is certainly a proven option. There are many other excellent choices as well, particularly considering new versions using eVent material. You will get mixed views about rain pants. Personally I like them for use as an extra layer when it is super cold/rainy in camp. With my Patagonia Capilene 3 bottoms, quick dry convertible pants, and rain pants - I stay warm and dry in camp even on very cold days. I don't carry rain pants except during winter and very early spring months. The rest of the time I really like the ULA Rain Wrap.

Let's recognize that March weather in the south can vary from one extreme to the other. I'm presenting a worse case scenario, assuming it will be a cold winter/spring. The worse snowfall ever that I can remember in the south occurred in late April. It is better to be prepared for whatever mother nature throws at you!

Hope this helps!

[thejackal]

realistically, how cold are we talking about in the beginning of march?

[GeoHiker]

ive been at the top of springer in late march with my breath freezing to my beard

[bigcranky]

I've been out in late March in everything from balmy 70's to full-on white out blizzard. We had a cold snap in mid-April last year that got temps in the NC mountains down into the single digits. So it can be cold. But on average, it's not bad, figure highs in the 50s and lows around freezing, maybe a little lower. The best hiking weather, IMO.

I like a puffy insulated jacket. I have a heavier down jacket for winter wear, and a Patagonia Micropuff pullover for spring and fall. It's less than a pound, more like 12 ounces, and it's quite warm over a microfleece top like the Capilene 3. You will need something for sitting around camp or on lunch breaks on cold days.

Precip is good. I also like the Montbell rain gear. I always carry rain pants in cold weather -- it's just too easy to get caught in a cold, windy rain and get soaked and die. :eek: I use the Golite Reed pants since they are the lightest w/b pants I could find at the time.

[bathtub boy]

ive come off springer several times the first 3rd march and got hit with blizzards a month later more than once. sure there are nice temp days in between, somewhat, but it can get sour. a nice dry fluffy jacket always felt so good to put on at the end of a cold wet day.

[rafe]

I'll put in a quick vote for Frogg Toggs as rain gear: they also provide warmth. I had a chance to use mine up in the Whites last weekend, not for rain but for warmth. On the trail, I don't carry anything that might be called a "jacket." Just lots of layers, and either Frogg Toggs or a waterproof shell for the outermost layer.

[Blissful]

You have to be ready for everything in March, single digits to the seventies (which we had both) plus wind. The weather is totally unpredictable. Some type of insulating jacket is necessary, IMO. I took rain pants and my precip for the first part, but rain pants are really optional, and hiking in them is way too hot. I liked them for rainy camp.

The jacket looks plenty warm but is a little on the heavy side at 1 lb 7 oz. I took a lb down jacket but will try to look for something even lighter weight and compressible.

[Wags]

i'm gonna put a no vote in on the precip. mine is terrible, soaked out the sleeves within the first few uses. seems reviews of it are about 50/50. those are odds i wouldn't want to take on a thru

[Blissful]

i'm gonna put a no vote in on the precip. mine is terrible, soaked out the sleeves within the first few uses.

Curious. The only time that happened is when I was hiking because of breathability, thus perspiring (the onlty time it didn't is in 50 MPH wind in the WHites. Too cold to perspire!). Other than that mine kept me quite dry in camp. I used mine the entire hike.
If it's leaking that badly and thus getting you wet, might send it back to Marmot for an evaluation. Doesn't sound right.

[Wags]

about 50 percent of the reviews i read said the same issue that i have. i don't know if it was just a big batch of defective material or what, but i absolutely cannot count on that to keep me dry. i'd be better off just wearing a fast drying t shirt. 5 minutes standing still in a light rain and my arms are soaked through and the waist has started to soak through as well. i called marmot, they suggested i tried drying it for 30 min to restore the dwr, which i did, with no improvement in waterproofness. my next step will be sending it back to them and seeing what they offer to do. they seem to have great CS but i'm beginning to see quite a few holes in their gear as a whole :(

[Haiku]

Just for reference, I left Springer on the 1st of March, 2004. It was mostly pretty good weather, but I had three big snowstorms between Springer and Pearisburg, VA; one in the Smokeys, one heading into Damascus (1st of April) and one heading into Pearisburg (14th of April).

A down jacket isn't necessary, but it sure will feel nice at the end of the day when you're huddling in the shelter trying to get feeling to your fingers so you can hold a pen in order to sign the register. There were a few times when I was so cold I could barely flick my lighter to light my stove in order to make hot chocolate and soup. You know, when you can't even function your fingers to grip the laces to untie your shoes (never mind that the laces are frozen). A down jacket sure would have been nice. These are the times when you sit with your sleeping bag thrown over your legs and your down jacket on and your wool hat pulled low over your eyes, and cuddle your mittened fingers around your hot cookpot in order to drink your soup before it gets cold (about a three minute window). Yes, you'll probably see this sort of weather if you leave on the first of March; but don't get scared, you'll be sweating as you hike in 70 degrees and sunny weather with no shade because the leaves haven't come out on the trees yet.

I've never worn Capilene 3. I've always used Capilene 1, either as a single layer or as a base layer. When I was on the CDT I picked up a Smartwool midweight pullover (link here (https://www.smartwool.com/default.cfm#/Mens/Apparel/Baselayer/_/265/?title=Official%20Site:%20%20SmartWool%C2%AE%20fee ls%20good.%20(%20Product:%20Men%27s%20Midweight%20 NTS%20Zip-T%20))) which I only wore on breaks, in the evening, and for the first 2.7 minutes of hiking in the morning until I warmed up enough to take it off and just wear my t-shirt. I'd wear a Capilene 1 top and bottom at night when I slept, and when I got into camp at night. Only twice I wore the bottoms as I hiked, under my shorts (on the CDT). On the AT, I wore a kilt, and put on Capilene 1 bottoms at night, and in the South I wore a long-sleeved Capilene 1 crew shirt. In northern VA through the end of the trail I wore a Capilene 1 t-shirt as my main hiking shirt. I think Cap-3 would be overkill, but I tend to be pretty warm. YMMV.

On the AT I used a GoLite rain jacket...I'm not sure of the brand, but maybe the Virga (http://www.golite.com/product/proddetail.aspx?p=AM1726&s=1)? The weight seems about right, and honestly the product detail says it's 8oz, but every time I weighed it it came out at 7 oz. It was all right, but lost it's DWR coating pretty quickly and became a basic silnylon-ish jacket. Still not bad. For the PCT I didn't bring any raincoat at all (and regretted it for about a week in Washington), and for the CDT I brought the Marmot Precip. I'd probably switch back to the Golite Virga, or take a look at some of the eVent stuff out there (I've heard good things about the Integral Designs eVent jackets (http://www.integraldesigns.com/product_detail.cfm?id=842&CFID=564360&CFTOKEN=12560352&mainproducttypeid=1)).

I have never seen any reason for wearing waterproof pants unless you plan on doing a lot of glissading, which you will (hopefully!) not be doing ever on the AT. I wore a kilt all the time on the AT and PCT, and really only regretted it one or two times. On the CDT I wore shorts the entire time, and only ever wore longjohns (Patagonia Cap-1) twice. They were zipoff shorts, so I wore the legs in camp, and for 2.7 minutes in the morning until I warmed up. The rest of the time, rain or shine, snow or sand, I wore the shorts, and on the other trails, kilt. Why bother with the weight for waterproof pants. Your skin is waterproof. Your legs are moving constantly so they'll stay warm, believe me. If you thin you'll be cold when you get into camp, pull out your sleeping bag and toss it over your legs. Perfect! Some people like rainpants for laundry day, but if that's the only time you're carrying them for that's too much dead weight in your pack. Carry an extra pair of unltra-light running shorts or something instead if you're that worried. I wore my raincoat, and wrapped my tarp around my waist as a makeshift kilt, and it worked fine. Every other laundry day I could wear my longjohns.

I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any more details or specific information.

Haiku.

[GeoHiker]

Holy Crap dude, you hiked all three long trails? AWESOME...thanks for the advise. Im hoping one day i am fortunate enough to do the same....life goal #7. Ive decided to cut out the pants and go with the golite jacket. I was thinking the Capilene 3 only for camp, no hiking in them. im sure ill be warm enough hiking.

[dmb658]

i left march 19th and the coldest it got was about 15deg., invest in a GOOD cold weather sleeping bag, you'll thank yourself for it.

[Serial 07]

forget rain pants...have a pair of pants/slash convertables you can walk in...when its cold and wet, and it will be cold and wet, just slip into your capilene and a pair of shorts...done...i wouldn't wear it around town, but on the trail...