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hikingff77
09-26-2008, 14:07
What do you do when you're hiking with your dogs and planning on staying in a shelter? Obviously the curtious thing to do would be to sleep in a tent if any people in the shelter don't want the dogs there or the shelter is full.

How do you keep them in the shelter when you're asleep? Our dogs normally stay right at our side all night long, but I'd be a little worried about just leaving them unleashed through the whole night.

Thanks.

Jack Tarlin
09-26-2008, 14:14
Most people, for any number of reasons, don't want dogs in shelters. A few of the reasons: The trample on people's stuff; sometimes they piss on it; they beg food; they bark; they ALL, without exception, have fleas and ticks; some folks are allergic, and so on.

So the answer to your question is very simple: If you're planning to bring a dog on your hike, you shouldn't plan to stay in shelters. (And asking folks, "Hey does anyone mind if Fido stays in here tonight?" is really uncool, as it puts other folks on the spot and makes THEM look like the bad guy).

And as to being tied up, unless your dog is trained well enough to stay by you at all times or responds to immediate voice commands, it needs to be leashed in a campsite, as unleashed dogs tend to be a pain in the ass, especially when people are preparing or eating food.

dessertrat
09-26-2008, 14:24
Here we go again. . . but Jack's right. People can and *do* regularly show up at shelters after dark, so simply waiting until dark and assuming nobody else will show is not proper, either.

Gumbi
09-26-2008, 14:24
There has been quite a controversy here in the past about dogs... you may have stepped on a hornet's nest by asking the question, but lots of people would agree with Jack's opinion that the considerate thing to do would be to plan on tenting if you are bringing your dog.

Nearly Normal
09-26-2008, 14:45
Scroll to the top of this page.
Click on Seach.
Choose thread.
Type in "DOG"
Hit enter.

Repeat procedure choosing post.


Read each and every word about dogs posted on this site.

This should take about a month.

hikingff77
09-26-2008, 14:46
I know the dog subject is a rather sore one, although from purusing the site there seems to be tons of people who enjoy bringing their dogs on the trail.

We have brough our dogs on the trail a bunch of times and met only one person who doesn't like dogs. One in a group of 15 isn't bad. He even admitted that our dogs were the best ones he's been around and didn't bother him.

I'm no a** and I can understand if you don't like dogs, that's fine, I take no offense if that's the case. Normally people light up around our dogs so you know it's cool, but if they don't then they def. stay on the leash.

I do love the dog arguments. People get so bent out of shape about things with dogs. I've never had a dog pee or chew on anything, mine or someone elses. They might do a little beggin' but they are under voice command and will stop instantly.

I understand your point, just was curious to see what people did in that situation.

hikingff77
09-26-2008, 14:51
Scroll to the top of this page.
Click on Seach.
Choose thread.
Type in "DOG"
Hit enter.

Repeat procedure choosing post.


Read each and every word about dogs posted on this site.

This should take about a month.

And this is going to get me where?

wrongway_08
09-26-2008, 14:53
My dog slept in the shelter by my head (most of the time I slept head out), he is well behaved and I always kept him by my feet - so if he had to pee he would just get up go pee and jump back up by my head.

As far as those who come in after dark..... thats why we carry tents. They shouldnt be jumping up in the shelters waking everyone up anyways.

Jack Tarlin
09-26-2008, 14:55
It isn't a question of "liking" or not liking dogs. I like 'em just fine, as do most people. It is true that there are few people who'll actually admit to dislking them. But there are plenty of folks who don't want to be around them at the end of the day, for the reasons I mentioned and more. This doesn't mean they don't LIKE your animal companion; they simply don't want to bunk down with them in a structure that, let's face it, was built for people.

Pedaling Fool
09-26-2008, 16:19
There are some weirdoes that don't like dogs, just let them bitch, who cares. The problem is that so many bad dog owners (note: Dog Owners) give somewhat of a platform to dog-hating hikers. We've all seen those undisciplined dogs that jump all over people's stuff in the shelter, at the same time covering it in mud and dog hair.

More dog owners need to take a lesson from the Dog Whisperer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cesar_Millan, or at least watch his show on National Geo.

Mags
09-26-2008, 16:28
Just tent it.

No conflicts between dogs owners, dog lovers and otherwise this way.

2-3 lbs of nylon will make your hike, and others, that much more pleasant.

Besides, in the words of Lone Wolf, "Shelters suck!" :D

Seriously, just tent it. You'll find life easier if you hike with a pooch.


Finally, read these articles on the ATC website:

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.jkLXJ8MQKtH/b.795337/k.9784/Hiking_with_Dogs.htm
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/fido.pdf

SunnyWalker
09-26-2008, 16:53
Ditto, Jack.

Cookerhiker
09-26-2008, 17:13
What do you do when you're hiking with your dogs and planning on staying in a shelter? Obviously the curtious thing to do would be to sleep in a tent if any people in the shelter don't want the dogs there or the shelter is full.

How do you keep them in the shelter when you're asleep? Our dogs normally stay right at our side all night long, but I'd be a little worried about just leaving them unleashed through the whole night.

Thanks.

All you wanted to know about dogs in shelters:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=37562&highlight=dogs+shelters

ki0eh
09-26-2008, 17:49
Now here's a real dog question: What do you do when two lost, lonely, hunting dogs escape from their trainers and make a beeline for a shelter? :D

(BTW: :welcome hff77!)

FatMan
09-26-2008, 18:52
I hike with my dog about 95% of the time and the last thing I would want to do is overnight at a shelter. Hiking with a dog is tough enough without having to worry about his behavior with others at the end of the day. Just plan on tenting away from shelters and you and your dog will have a much more enjoyable hike.

Mags
09-26-2008, 19:10
Hmm..how about a nice, juicy can o' worms? :)

http://www.grubesteak.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/can-of-worms.jpg

Tinker
09-26-2008, 20:22
Bring a tarp for your dogs, though if they normally sleep right by your side, they will probably whine and bark all night and annoy the other shelter inhabitants. Better yet, carry a tent with a large vestibule and let them sleep within eyesight of you, or a small tent and a tarp.

CrumbSnatcher
09-26-2008, 23:05
Most people, for any number of reasons, don't want dogs in shelters. A few of the reasons: The trample on people's stuff; sometimes they piss on it; they beg food; they bark; they ALL, without exception, have fleas and ticks; some folks are allergic, and so on.

So the answer to your question is very simple: If you're planning to bring a dog on your hike, you shouldn't plan to stay in shelters. (And asking folks, "Hey does anyone mind if Fido stays in here tonight?" is really uncool, as it puts other folks on the spot and makes THEM look like the bad guy).

And as to being tied up, unless your dog is trained well enough to stay by you at all times or responds to immediate voice commands, it needs to be leashed in a campsite, as unleashed dogs tend to be a pain in the ass, especially when people are preparing or eating food.
i love yA JACK, but NO. my bear(dog) never had fleas or ticks on her, for any longer than a hiker would have a tick or flea on them. not only did i check her for them daily.(but with her preventative treatments) she never had them!!! they would jump off immediatly if they did hitch a ride? so they wouldn't DIE! her whole life she went to the vet regularly. non hiking and hiking she had her meds her entire life. flea collar, front line (applied once a month)every month of every year for ticks. she had lyme disease shots every year of our hikes. if you stay on top of the dogs shots,meds,vaccanations and preventatives. all human hikers would have a tick or flea on them longer than the dog would.and most hikers were alot dirttier than my dog was. but i totally agree, keep your dogs out of the shelters. the tents are more comfortable than the hard floors of shelters, and they won't get stepped on like they could in a shelter and end thier hike.you can contain them better in the tent than a shelter(i agree if you need to restrain a dog in the evenings on the trail there not trained well enough to be on the trail! they rest better away from strangers too. your dog will be just as tired as you. soft grass tenting is the way to go.IMO.

Bob S
09-27-2008, 00:17
Dogs and kids are a lot alike in the owners & parents mind. All dog owners just like parents think their kids or dogs are perfectly well behaved. No one will be able to tell them different, they are not open to it.

But the truth viewed from a distance view is somewhat different.

Dogs do invade the space of others, they do beg for food (food that had to be carried on someone’s back and cooked with stoves and fuel that also had to be carried.)

You are also walking in the woods, only a naïve person would say their dog would not pickup a few flees in this situation.


Jack hit the nail on the head.

CrumbSnatcher
09-27-2008, 00:38
i never said they didn't jump on, but they got off quick when the dog is juiced up on preventatives.(front line, flea collar, etc...) i' ve seen hikers beg for food too. your right it ain't pretty.

CrumbSnatcher
09-27-2008, 01:15
there are other brands but i used frontline for fleas &ticks. either oral or a liquid you place between the shoulderblades onto the dogs skin. it coats the entire surface of the dogs skin and gets into the bloodstream. the ticks will not attach and they want to get the hell out of there!as fast as possible! yeah a tick could of fell off my dog onto someone else in a shelter perhaps but lets be fair a tick could fall off another hiker and end up on you also.

Nearly Normal
09-27-2008, 08:47
And this is going to get me where?

Troll on along..........

wrongway_08
09-27-2008, 10:52
Dogs and kids are a lot alike in the owners & parents mind. All dog owners just like parents think their kids or dogs are perfectly well behaved. No one will be able to tell them different, they are not open to it.

But the truth viewed from a distance view is somewhat different.

Dogs do invade the space of others, they do beg for food (food that had to be carried on someone’s back and cooked with stoves and fuel that also had to be carried.)

You are also walking in the woods, only a naïve person would say their dog would not pickup a few flees in this situation.
Jack hit the nail on the head.



Depends on the owner/dog. One of my dogs (Erwin - who I adopted while thru-hiking) is a perfect angel, doesnt beg, he will sit and watch for someone to offer but he doesnt go up to you and beg.

Hudson is a little more of a begger and wants to be around people. He is getting older and growing out of this but I still take care to keep him away from other hikers and I will tent with him untill he outgrows this.

He will not climb over people in shelter - unless a person calls him, then its the fault of the hiker calling him - not the dog.

And man the smell of fellow hikers is way worse then the few flees a dog MIGHT (I never had a problem with anyones dog ever bringing flees into a shelter) bring in. I, as many other owners, wash my dog in town and Erwin/Hudson get the flee treatment. 90% of dogs on the trail are cleaner then hikers.

Not to say my dogs dont anoy me every now and then or get into trouble here and there (hell I cause more of a problem on the trail then my dogs do) but they are less of a problem then the drunk hikers and those that mark up shelters and trees with names.

billy231
09-27-2008, 14:46
October 2006 – (“It was a dark and stormy night…”) Heavy rain from 6:00 pm to 8:00 am. Hiker shows up with a wet, muddy dog at Pecks Corner Shelter in SMNP at 11:00 PM. Fourteen shelter inhabitants are instantly awakened to the dog whining, shaking and walking around in a circle. The wet dog scent permeated the shelter. The dog’s owner explains that no one ever told him that pets were not allowed on the trail in SMNP. The dog growled hourly at real or imaginary prey in the woods. No one slept with the exception of the dog’s owner.

How would you have handled this situation?

Jack Tarlin
09-27-2008, 15:45
1. The dog shouldn't have been in the Park in the first place.
2. Dog or no dog, showing up at a shelter in the middle of the night is rude.
3. The guy should've been told to tent.

Oh, and if he was a jerk about this, I'd have borrowed someone's phone, reported his location and description to Rangers or Park police, and hopefully, would have got him cited or arrested.

CrumbSnatcher
09-27-2008, 15:53
1. The dog shouldn't have been in the Park in the first place.
2. Dog or no dog, showing up at a shelter in the middle of the night is rude.
3. The guy should've been told to tent.

Oh, and if he was a jerk about this, I'd have borrowed someone's phone, reported his location and description to Rangers or Park police, and hopefully, would have got him cited or arrested.
i believe you answered his question jack, how about those apples.

wrongway_08
09-27-2008, 15:55
October 2006 – (“It was a dark and stormy night…”) Heavy rain from 6:00 pm to 8:00 am. Hiker shows up with a wet, muddy dog at Pecks Corner Shelter in SMNP at 11:00 PM. Fourteen shelter inhabitants are instantly awakened to the dog whining, shaking and walking around in a circle. The wet dog scent permeated the shelter. The dog’s owner explains that no one ever told him that pets were not allowed on the trail in SMNP. The dog growled hourly at real or imaginary prey in the woods. No one slept with the exception of the dog’s owner.

How would you have handled this situation?

He shouldve never come into the shelter that late, with or without the dog, its rude.

Wouldve told him he needs to tent. People like him give the rest of us dog owners a bad name.

NICKTHEGREEK
09-27-2008, 16:00
He shouldve never come into the shelter that late, with or without the dog, its rude.

Wouldve told him he needs to tent. People like him give the rest of us dog owners a bad name.
I thought that in GSMNP 1- no dogs, 2-must sleep in a shelter (unless a thru hiker) Kinda catch 22.

CrumbSnatcher
09-27-2008, 16:01
I thought that in GSMNP 1- no dogs, 2-must sleep in a shelter (unless a thru hiker) Kinda catch 22.
if the shelter is full,your allowed to tent next to the shelter. same as the SNP i could be wrong

wrongway_08
09-27-2008, 18:03
I thought that in GSMNP 1- no dogs, 2-must sleep in a shelter (unless a thru hiker) Kinda catch 22.

Well yea the no dog thing is out the window since he already had it there but he is allowed to tent by the shelter, when its full.

Two Speed
09-27-2008, 18:45
Dogs are definitely not allowed on the AT in the Smoky's. There are kennels that will take care of your dog, then drop it off to you on the opposite side of the park. That's the only way I know of to hike the AT through that area without violating park regulations.

As wrongway said this hiker is giving the rest of a bad rep.

NICKTHEGREEK
09-27-2008, 19:00
1. The dog shouldn't have been in the Park in the first place.
2. Dog or no dog, showing up at a shelter in the middle of the night is rude.
3. The guy should've been told to tent.

Oh, and if he was a jerk about this, I'd have borrowed someone's phone, reported his location and description to Rangers or Park police, and hopefully, would have got him cited or arrested.
Where's that using a cell phone in a shelter thread???? Just foolin'

superman
09-27-2008, 19:35
Dogs are definitely not allowed on the AT in the Smoky's. There are kennels that will take care of your dog, then drop it off to you on the opposite side of the park. That's the only way I know of to hike the AT through that area without violating park regulations.

As wrongway said this hiker is giving the rest of a bad rep.

Unless the owner and the dog went to those special classes for those people who get all the best parking places. On the other hand... since the hand book doesn't specify a penalty the more bothered folks could make dog-kabobs and resolve the problem.:)

Frosty
09-27-2008, 20:14
He will not climb over people in shelter - unless a person calls him, then its the fault of the hiker calling him - not the dog.
No,it is the fault of the owner for bringng a dog into the shelter and not having the dog leashed. I'm in a shelter and your dog clombs all over my sleeping bag to get to someone who may or may not have called him. My bag is muddy and it is not the dog's fault. It is the fault of the inconsiderate, ignorant owner who thinks his dog ...
is a perfect angel In your mind he is, to everyone else he is a pest and doesn't belong in shelters. You see, the question isn't whether he bothers YOU, it is a question of whether he bothers OTHERS. And he does.

I love dogs, had a beautiful Golden for 14 years, but she never slept in a shelter, and I kept her on a leash. I knew she was gentle, but strangers did not know that, and some people are afraid of dogs for good reason.

Look that this and other threads. Most people have a dog horror storyand no one who does not own the wet, drooling muddy dog wants it in the shelter, and dog owners are in total denial about it. "MY dog would never do that." It will always be an issue as long as dog owners won'town up to the fact that no one likes their dogs as much as they do, and that their dog is NOT a perfect angel.

If you can't be a considerate dog owner and keep your dog out of shelters and leashed in a camp where others are camping, the leave the dogs at home.



Not to say my dogs dont anoy me every now and then or get into trouble here and there (hell I cause more of a problem on the trail then my dogs do) but they are less of a problem then the drunk hikers and those that mark up shelters and trees with names.So it is okay for your dogs to annoy people because someone carved a name in a shelter? What kind of logic is that. "Well, officer, yes I robbed that person, but it's okay because murderers are worse than robbers."

The are a number of rude and inconsiderate hikers out there, but I have yet to meet any ruder and less considerate than dog owners.

superman
09-27-2008, 20:26
Seriously...unless there are strong special considerations dogs shouldn't be in shelters...period. If you bring a dog just plan on tenting and abiding by the restrictions of the trail.


<SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: 'Times New Roman'">6. Automatic "stay" before entering shelters. Other hikers may like dogs but don't like wet dogs getting them and their gear wet or walked on. I avoid shelters as a rule. I carry a tent. Winter has always slept inside the tent with me. I sleep more at ease knowing that Winter is secure in the tent with me. Stealth camping is the best.

bathtub boy
09-27-2008, 20:57
wow more consern for dogs in the shelters than there was for the convicted sex offender that was in shelters, thru hiking a couple years ago.

superman
09-27-2008, 21:13
I never met a sex offender but I've known lot's of dogs.

mudcap
09-27-2008, 21:24
I have 4 dogs,I like them more than most people I know. That being said,I would never burden anyone with them. They stay at home,always. I miss them dearly when I am out,but I also know what a pain in the butt they would be for others. They beg,they lick their***********************,they piss on things,etc. .

I also trust them more than most people I know,but I could not be sure they would not charge another dog,skunk,person....so they stay home.

Being a dog lover,I give owners the benefit of the doubt...well kinda.:-?
When fido comes running at me on the trail and they say...do not worry, they won't bite ya.My reply... Thats good,I won't kill em with my hiking stick then.Some get the point...

mudcap
09-27-2008, 21:25
wow more consern for dogs in the shelters than there was for the convicted sex offender that was in shelters, thru hiking a couple years ago.

Huh? :confused: Can you elaborate? This is news to me.

Bob S
09-27-2008, 22:22
Quote:
Originally Posted by bathtub boy http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=702611#post702611)
wow more consern for dogs in the shelters than there was for the convicted sex offender that was in shelters, thru hiking a couple years ago.



Huh? :confused: Can you elaborate? This is news to me.

Phreak
09-28-2008, 00:03
Wow, just what I've been missing over the last 25 days, more dog bashing threads. :rolleyes:

Two Speed
09-28-2008, 06:51
Wow, just what I've been missing over the last 25 days, more dog bashing threads. :rolleyes:Um, yeah. Speaking as a moderator on this forum, tone it down, boys and girls. Opposing view points are part of a debate, calling each other names belongs on the playground or in the kiddie pool. Let's keep the debate civil, please.

Changing hats back to participating in the thread, I think we've answered the OP's original question with "the bulk of experienced hikers strongly suggest sleeping in your tent with your dog and not staying in shelters when you have your dog with you."

Speaking as a hiker who almost invariably hikes with his dog I think that stance is reasonable. Nobody is infringing any right you might have to hike with your dog, they're just asking you not to bring it into a shelter where it's likely to cause problems.

Yeah, I have spent a night in a shelter with Crumb and Bear and FWIW I found both of them to be good company.

Unfortunately that's the exception, not the rule, so I'm going to reiterate that my relatively limited experience leads me to a firmly held opinion that it's very likely that bringing your dog into a shelter is going to cause problems, particularly if the weather's rough and the shelter's crowded.

Basically it's just a question of good trail manners.

Besides, shelters suck. ;)

Egads
09-28-2008, 08:40
Appropriate behavior when hiking with a dog is to ask all at the shelter if it's ok for the dog to sleep in the shelter, then move out if anyone objects. I've seen my hiking partner do it.

I find it objectionable if anyone, be they man or beast, comes in late and wakes the shelter residents.

Nearly Normal
09-28-2008, 11:27
1. The Dog Shouldn't Have Been In The Park In The First Place.
2. Dog Or No Dog, Showing Up At A Shelter In The Middle Of The Night Is Rude.
3. The Guy Should've Been Told To Tent.

Oh, And If He Was A Jerk About This, I'd Have Borrowed Someone's Phone, Reported His Location And Description To Rangers Or Park Police, And Hopefully, Would Have Got Him Cited Or Arrested.

Wow!:-?

wrongway_08
09-28-2008, 15:08
The are a number of rude and inconsiderate hikers out there, but I have yet to meet any ruder and less considerate than dog owners.

You should have saved yourself alot of writing, after reading this stupid comment, I know the rest of what you wrote aint worth poo.


Or maybe you need to get out and actually hike sometime. Web hikers dont meet real hikers...... , ....... oh wait, now your comment makes sense, you meet bad dog owners around your home but since you never really hike and never met a hiker........ guess your comment is not that stupid - I just had to think like a web-hiker.

wrongway_08
09-28-2008, 15:15
Now go take a chill pill and laugh a little :)

Jack Tarlin
09-28-2008, 15:46
Note to Egads:

Gotta disagree with you. It is NOT appropriate to ask "Does anyone here mind if...." because it invariably puts people on the spot and forces them to be the "bad guy." Truth is, plenty of folks don't want dogs in shelters but they don't necessarily want to be forced into being the decision maker, or being the perceived "mean" guy.

I've seen this "Does anyone mind if...." done a lot, and whether it involves a dog in a shelter, or paying the harmonica, or listening to music on speakers, there's always one thing in common here: The person asking "Does anyone mind...." knows full well that he's asking folks to give the "thumbs up" to something that isn't normally done........but he puts them on the spot anyway, by forcing THEM to make the decision. Fact is, anytime you haveta ask other folks "Does anyone care if I...." this should be a red flag. When you catch yourself about to ask people if they'd object to your behavior or what you'd like to do, this should be a red flag to yourself that you're about to ask approval for something that usually isn't acceptable. So the correct thing to do is to NOT do this. Asking folks if anyone minds their dog being in the shelter puts THEM on the spot, and makes THEM the bad guy (and the dog owner knows this full well, and assumes that nobody is gonna say "Um yes, I DO mind!") In short, the considerate dog owner doesn't put folks on the spot like this; he doesn't ask if it's OK to do something that most folks think is NOT OK; the "appropriate" thing for the dog owner to do, Egads, is to find another place to sleep.

Pedaling Fool
09-28-2008, 16:00
Note to Egads:

Gotta disagree with you. It is NOT appropriate to ask "Does anyone here mind if...." because it invariably puts people on the spot and forces them to be the "bad guy." Truth is, plenty of folks don't want dogs in shelters but they don't necessarily want to be forced into being the decision maker, or being the perceived "mean" guy.

I've seen this "Does anyone mind if...." done a lot, and whether it involves a dog in a shelter, or paying the harmonica, or listening to music on speakers, there's always one thing in common here: The person asking "Does anyone mind...." knows full well that he's asking folks to give the "thumbs up" to something that isn't normally done........but he puts them on the spot anyway, by forcing THEM to make the decision. Fact is, anytime you haveta ask other folks "Does anyone care if I...." this should be a red flag. When you catch yourself about to ask people if they'd object to your behavior or what you'd like to do, this should be a red flag to yourself that you're about to ask approval for something that usually isn't acceptable. So the correct thing to do is to NOT do this. Asking folks if anyone minds their dog being in the shelter puts THEM on the spot, and makes THEM the bad guy (and the dog owner knows this full well, and assumes that nobody is gonna say "Um yes, I DO mind!") In short, the considerate dog owner doesn't put folks on the spot like this; he doesn't ask if it's OK to do something that most folks think is NOT OK; the "appropriate" thing for the dog owner to do, Egads, is to find another place to sleep.
I have to agree with that; what's funny is when some does say "No", then the person who posed the question usually gets a little huffy-puffy about it. It's like a 180 degree turn in their mood, which was very polite, and now very mean. Funny, funny...

Jack Tarlin
09-28-2008, 16:16
They get "huffy puffy" John, because they don't expect anyone to say "Um, yes, since you ask, I DO mind!" They expect people to roll over and say nothing, even if these folks do indeed object to the behavior in question. But the "Does anyone mind if....." query is, in fact, a subtle mind game: The questioner takes for granted that nobody's gonna be the one to say "Um, yeah, I DO mind!" The questioner knows full well that when put on the spot like this, lots of folks will roll over and say nothing, rather than risk creating an unpleasant scene. And John's right, the questioner does indeed get "huffy puffy" when he doesn't get the right answer. In fact, John, they're not being polite at all. Putting people on the spot and forcing them to be the arbiter of how other folks act and behave is simply a rude thing to do, period. And this can be easily avoided: People should refrain from asking other folks if they "approve" of certain things......instead of forcing other folks to pass judgment on one's own questionable behavior, the polite thing to do is to refrain from this behavior in the first place. In other words, take for granted that most folks don't want to hear your favorite band being played on speakers; they don't want to be an eyewitness to your introduction to the harmonica; and no, they don't want your dog in the shelter, either.

Common courtesy to others isn't really that tough a concept, tho it's amazing to discover how many people fail to grasp it.

mudhead
09-28-2008, 17:40
You should have saved yourself alot of writing, after reading this stupid comment, I know the rest of what you wrote aint worth poo.



Maybe Frosty has a valid point. I think he might, even if it is a generalization.



Common courtesy to others isn't really that tough a concept, tho it's amazing to discover how many people fail to grasp it.

Pegged that nail.

dessertrat
09-28-2008, 19:33
Jack, it's sort of like when the neighbor has a party and invites you even though he doesn't want you there. He thinks you will have to put up with his noise because you were invited. A product of a society built upon manipulation rather than true consideration.

mudcap
09-28-2008, 19:43
Jack, it's sort of like when the neighbor has a party and invites you even though he doesn't want you there. He thinks you will have to put up with his noise because you were invited. A product of a society built upon manipulation rather than true consideration.

Now that is great,you hit the nail on the head! Jack,I also agree with you 100%.. Great points guys.

sasquatch2014
09-28-2008, 22:33
I am trying to catch up on the threads that have been going on while I was down in SNP this week. Had a dog stay in the shelter with me the last night The owner didn't really ask but also my behavior to the dog being there was friendly and so I believe he may have taken it me having no objection to the situation. I read back a page or so and saw a ton of comment about who have to say what. You know I don't think that the burden should be more on one person than another frankly if you have a problem with something than you better speak the hell up or expect that you hidden desires to not have something happen may get trodden all over. And if you want to complain about it after the fact when at the time you had a chance to speak up and did nothing well then TFB.

On a side not have you noticed how dogs lick themselves to clean up their coat if the get too dirty? They don't wait for a town stop maybe that is what part of the issue is the filthy mongrel is cleaner than you are at the time? Not high enough in the pack? what ever the issue deal with it.

Two Speed
09-29-2008, 18:20
I moved this thread to the moderator's holding area, with the intention of spending a little time this evening cleaning this thread up, but some friends have invited me out for dinner so that's not going to happen tonight. Because there does seem to be some interest in debating this subject I'm going to move this out where ya'll can play while I'm out doing the same.

I am going to reiterate my request that everyone remains civil. I really don't like doing slash and trash jobs on threads.

John B
09-30-2008, 07:11
Note to Egads:

Gotta disagree with you. It is NOT appropriate to ask "Does anyone here mind if...." because it invariably puts people on the spot and forces them to be the "bad guy." Truth is, plenty of folks don't want dogs in shelters but they don't necessarily want to be forced into being the decision maker, or being the perceived "mean" guy.



I agree 100%. That happened to me. It was raining like the end of time and a guy and his dog enter the shelter. Needless to say, the dog starts shaking off and tracking mud all over the place. And what does the guy say? You guessed it: "You don't mind if we stay in the shelter tonight, do you? It's a hard rain, it's a 1-man tent, and he'll get all of my gear wet if he stays inside with me."

Put me in the position of having to be the bad guy. It worked, too -- I didn't say anything.

George
09-30-2008, 08:17
I have found a typical response of a dog owner after irritating actions of the dog is Oh he never does that, meaning its your fault the dog is doing these things or the owner has no fault since they claim it has "never" happened before

Two Speed
09-30-2008, 08:20
George, you're mixing things you've heard said with what you believe is going through another person's mind. That is approaching inflammatory.

hikingff77
09-30-2008, 10:26
I really never thought that this post would ever get to this level. I understand some people are not dog fans and even those who enjoy the company of dogs, do not like them in their space when their wet or muddy or anything like that.

My dogs have a lot of very good traits. Some of which is that they listen to me when I call them, they stick with us until they are given permission to be greeted by someone else and are just plain happy to be on the trail. The one will beg, to a point from a distance. I'd never let my dogs sit and stare at someone while they are eating, expecting a handout. Anyone who would allow it isn't a good dog owner.

I comepletely agree that asking at a shelter if anyone objects to the dogs being there is 100% fine. If you don't want them there, I am not going to be bitter if you object, I understand and will go set up my tent. If you don't say anything, shame on you. If I went and asked anyone if they minded if I squeezed in on a crappy rainy day, they have every right to say it's just to full... but in most cases they'd let me slide right in. We smell much worse then the dogs 99% of the time, at least the thru-hikers I have met do. They've earned the smell of course.

I stayed at the Leroy A Smith shelter this weekend, in the pouring rain with our two dogs. When we got there a SOBO was there taking a break. From us talking he greeted the dogs and said he was tenting up the hill, just stopped for a quick meal and a stop at the spring.

Sadly the only thing that was wrong about this weekend is the one dog cut his pad.

I'm really surprised with some people's distain towards dogs. If you don't like them you don't but they're not all devils that some posters have made them out to be. I try to be as respectable as possible when I'm out with my dogs on the trail. I have had my one female dog attacked by some moron that didn't have their dog on a leash and while I'm beating their dog off of mine he tells me that's how she is all the time. I came within three feet of knocking his teeth in because he is one reason that dog oweners get a bad wrap and also he's a moron for having a dog that bites other dogs, and possibly people, on the trail. It's all about being responsible and having respect for others.

Gaiter
09-30-2008, 10:42
I really never thought that this post would ever get to this level.

welcome to wb

SteveJ
09-30-2008, 10:44
I have found a typical response of a dog owner after irritating actions of the dog is Oh he never does that, meaning its your fault the dog is doing these things or the owner has no fault since they claim it has "never" happened before

I have actually said "that never happened before" once. I lead a hike with a group of six men from our church, in the Shining Rock Wilderness Area. Four of us had dogs. Mine was the only one leashed 100% of the time. At one point, one of the guy's unleashed dalmation went over to greet Phoebe. She replied by snapping, drawing blood. I looked at him blankly, saying, "I don't get it - she's never done that." Later, I figured out she was protecting her food (in her pack), which the dog had stepped over and sniffed. I don't think the guy's wife has ever forgiven us for hurting her "baby."

Personally, we only stop at shelters to cook or dry off if it's raining, and then Phoebe stays outside under a tree.

Nearly Normal
09-30-2008, 12:27
I really never thought that this post would ever get to this level.

This must be your first dog thread. This one is really nice, not the usual **** storm about dogs.

superman
09-30-2008, 12:33
Socialization and temperment are an absolute essential before a dog is brought to the trail. That is not the time to hear "oh shnookems never did that before."
Dog = tent...unless your handicap or injury prevents the use of a tent

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 13:04
There are many reasons to avoid rodent dens (shelters), one of which is dog owners.

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 14:12
Gotta disagree strongly with Two Speed's comment to George above.

I have lost track of how many times I've seen dog owners say "He's never done this before!" or "He's never acted like this until today!"

But I've seen this sort of thing many times on the Trail, and George's comment above was absolutely right. The first defense of dog owners when their dog is being a pain in the ass is to insist that it's never happened ever happened before, and the implication is that it isn't the dog's fault.

Two Speed
09-30-2008, 14:21
Jack, I'm not disputing whether or not George has heard that phrase. I am disputing anyone's ability to know with absolute certainty what someone else is thinking.

While we're at it your post also mixes what you're heard stated and what people think. In addition you have accused people you don't know of lying.

Not good.

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 14:27
Lighten up for heaven's sake. All I'm saying is what I've personally witnessed.

What I said is that I've heard people claim more times than I can remember that their obviously ill-trained and non-controlled pet has NEVER misbehaved or bothered people ever before.

And whenever I hear this, well NO, I don't believe it. It's pretty easy to recognize dogs who've never neen trained properly and owners who obviously don't give a damn.

So yeah, when I hear people say this, I don't think they're telling the truth.

Two Speed
09-30-2008, 14:34
At this point I'm going to ask everyone involved in this to read the sticky at the top of the forum, Dog Forum: This is not a debate forum. Read before posting (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16259).

Please note that the title of the sticky includes the phrase "This is not a debate forum." I am well within the rules for this forum to close this thing and not reopen it.

What I am going to do is lock this thread until I have time to clean it up. I have a class tonight so it'll probably be sometime Thursday morning before that happens.

Two Speed
10-01-2008, 19:31
Okey doke, clean up is done. Despite the fact this isn’t a debate forum I’m going to allow the debate to continue. However, I’m going to strictly enforce these very simple rules:

Keep it civil.
Don’t make statements about what someone else was thinking. You don’t live inside their head so you can’t know that.

Any post that contains anything that I think crosses the line will be deleted in it’s entirety.

karoberts
10-01-2008, 19:33
I hiked with my dog. We tented every night, even when the shelter was empty.

People were always telling me, "come on into the shelter, it's okay, we don't mind." I must have heard that 25 times.

cowboy nichols
10-01-2008, 20:22
This is from my dogs point of view. "I don't want to sleep around a group of smelly people. They may step on me or offer bad food. The mice are a real temptation but not on my diet. I love the tent it is like a den and quiet. I don't mind people petting me IF they ask and don't reach out and pat the top of my head. Would you like it if someone did that to you? "

Wise Old Owl
10-02-2008, 22:18
One now wonders why Two Speed had to edit ....Something.

Rain Man
10-03-2008, 10:16
... I’m going to strictly enforce these very simple rules:

Don’t make statements about what someone else was thinking. You don’t live inside their head so you can’t know that.

Any post that contains anything that I think crosses the line will be deleted in it’s entirety.

EXCELLENT, because I for one get very tired of reading so-called dog lovers telling us all flat out that no one ever had a problem with THEIR dog. No way on God's green earth for them to know that, unless they read minds. I tend to tune them out once they make that claim. Now maybe the discussion can get to a more realistic, honorable level of folks listening to each other instead of casually making such outrageously self-serving assertions.

I myself have enjoyed most of the dogs I've met on the trail, and stayed in shelters with one or two really good dogs (and good dog owners).

Rain:sunMan

.

Two Speed
10-03-2008, 11:03
. . . so-called dog lovers telling us all flat out that no one ever had a problem with THEIR dog . . . FWIW that cuts both ways. Those that have had a problem with a hiker and the hiker's dog really don't know what's going through the other hiker's mind.

Report actions, from both perspectives? Sure.

State what your opinion is? No problem there, as long as it's done in a civil manner.

Know with absolute certainty what someone else was thinking? No way.

RiverWarriorPJ
10-03-2008, 11:12
Dogs n Shelters..??..No Way..!!..Hee ..
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/1/1/1/7/greet_thumb.jpg (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=23510&catid=member&imageuser=11117)

superman
10-03-2008, 12:00
I hiked with my dog. We tented every night, even when the shelter was empty.

People were always telling me, "come on into the shelter, it's okay, we don't mind." I must have heard that 25 times.

Yes, Winter and I were invited to stay in shelters many times but it's easier on Winter for me to be consistant. As Winter would tell you, I haven't always been right...but I've been consistant.:)

ed bell
10-03-2008, 20:03
This forum was created for the purpose of discussing how to responsibly hike the trail with a dog. The purpose of the forum is not to debate the whole topic of dogs on the trail. If your aim is to do so, please go to The general forum or poll forum or something. Otherwise stay away from these threads.


That said, if you disagree with dogs on the trail, it is probably because of unaware or irresponsible owners. The purpose of this forum was to try to fix that. The hope is dog hikers can pass on to each other the things that make the rare, good trail dogs a good trail dog. If more trail dogs benefit from good owners, then maybe there will be less problems in the long run.


If a dog owner that plans to bring their dog to the trail comes here and learns all the informal rules; the health, safety, and first aid issues they must consider; the impact a hike can have on a dog, the impact a dog can have on a hike; the equipment and pack weight issues to consider; effects of secondary predation, disease, and other impacts of wildlife on the dog and the dog on the wildlife; and the overall impact of the dog hiker on other hikers and even other dogs - The hope is that a dog owner can participate in the forum and learn all the informal rules and how hard it can really be to hike with a pet responsibly, and then allow them to make a personal, informed decision to either not hike with a pet or to go on the trail armed with the skills, knowledge, and attitude to do it correctly.


All that said, this forum came about this way because it had to. Every time the topic of how to act responsibly, the thread deteriorated into another battle against dog lovers against the supposed "dog haters". So if you plan to post here, post advice about how to backpack responsibly with the pet as a response to the question or topic. Due to past experiences the threads will be monitored closely for failure to comply. Abusers will loose the ability to read or post on this forum.
Let's remember the spirit in which this forum was created. It's unfortunate that this topic encourages some harsh disagreements. I personally feel like "Dogs in Shelters" as a thread topic might not be appropriate for this forum. It makes it much more difficult to adhere to the guidelines Rock established in the above quote. Sensitive Trail Subjects seems a lot more like it. That's my .02

Two Speed
10-03-2008, 20:06
If someone wants to open a thread on the subject of dogs & shelters in the sensitive subjects forum that's OK with me. Different set of rules there.

Tin Man
10-03-2008, 20:23
dogs are sensitive, but not as sensitive as people :)