View Full Version : Ladders/Climbs and trail cliffs ...
Greetings WB ...
I'm curious overall from GA to ME how many areas require climbing skill or lack of fear of heights ... During my hikes i've heard stories of areas were if you thru-hike there's area's were you have to climb ladders or another means of getting UP ...
I'm afraid of heights ... i don't do well on ladders ... The roughest part i've had to deal with has been lehigh gap going northbound .... and there was a section going up i had to excuse the phrase "Ball up" ... Took me a few minutes of pumpin myself up an saying to myself ... Just do it! Which i did ... I'm planing on thru hiking within the next year or two .... So its been eating me up not knowing if i should go get some climbing class' so i'm more prepared or if there's side trails for the really hairy parts ...
No technical climbing at all. Just some steep sections here & there.
max patch
09-29-2008, 18:01
Heading northbound, would the descent of Moosilauke be problematic for someone afraid of heights? Been awhile since I've been there.
Jim Adams
09-29-2008, 18:10
No, you'll be fine. I'm not a big fan of heights myself and always take alittle more care and time on some sections but never really had a problem. Most of the questionable moments that I've had was nothing to do with height but whether the surface was wet or dry. As long as traction is available nothing on the AT is to steep or too high.
Have fun out there!
geek
Kerosene
09-29-2008, 18:13
I, too, hate heights, but the only time I've had an issue is looking over the side of McAfee Knob and similar places. From a trail standpoint, I've been frustrated and slowed by having to carefully wind my way up or down steep sections, or keep my balance along a narrow drop-off, but it's never hit me the way it did climbing down the Half Dome cables in Yosemite.
I beg to differ with some of the above. There are quite a few places where I got that funny feeling that heights and open spaces give me. But...I persevered and overcame it, and so can you.
Try to limit your peripheral vision, and concentrate on the immediate placing of your feet and hands. Don't look up/out to enjoy the view until you are in a very safe-feeling place.
Lots of people older, weaker, and clumsier than you have successfully negotiated all the obstacles, and so can you!
The more successes you have, the more confident you will become in your ability to deal with these ugly obstacles. To use a trite word, succeeding is empowering. With success comes the thrill of victory.
There are a few ladders here and there and a few places where you'll need your hands to steady or brace yourself. But there's nothing "technical" on the AT. Examples of the nastiest you'll see: nobo descent off Dragon's Tooth, ascent of Lehigh Gap (just north/east of the river; take a breath before looking back down) -- the ascent of South Kinsman, or the descent off Moosilauke, Madison, or North Carter.
bigcranky
09-29-2008, 19:10
Examples of the nastiest you'll see: nobo descent off Dragon's Tooth,
When I saw this thread, that's the first place I thought of. That was tough at the end of a very long, very hard day. I can't imagine what it would be like in bad weather, or an ice storm.
Blissful
09-29-2008, 20:02
Greetings WB ...
I'm afraid of heights ... i don't do well on ladders ... The roughest part i've had to deal with has been lehigh gap going northbound .... and there was a section going up i had to excuse the phrase "Ball up" ... Took me a few minutes of pumpin myself up an saying to myself ... Just do it!
That's good psyching up 'cause you're gonna need to get your nerve up in sections of NH and ME. Going up Speck Mtn has a doozy of a ladder if I recall that if you miss the first rung - well, I won't go into the results. But it would be good to bone up on some rock climbing knowledge, such as figuring out hand and foot holds. I was glad my hubby did rock climbing and I had some knowledge. Never thought I would need it on the AT - but I did anyway and it helped immensely. And yeah, Lehigh freaked me out too. But it gets much worse...
Katahdin has some interesitng parts too. Could not figure out some of the wire rungs they have there and how to use them.
Blissful
09-29-2008, 20:03
When I saw this thread, that's the first place I thought of. That was tough at the end of a very long, very hard day. I can't imagine what it would be like in bad weather, or an ice storm.
Yeah glad I was slacking Dragon's Tooth that particular day.
boarstone
09-29-2008, 20:07
Greetings WB ...
I'm curious overall from GA to ME how many areas require climbing skill or lack of fear of heights ... During my hikes i've heard stories of areas were if you thru-hike there's area's were you have to climb ladders or another means of getting UP ...
I'm afraid of heights ... i don't do well on ladders ... The roughest part i've had to deal with has been lehigh gap going northbound .... and there was a section going up i had to excuse the phrase "Ball up" ... Took me a few minutes of pumpin myself up an saying to myself ... Just do it! Which i did ... I'm planing on thru hiking within the next year or two .... So its been eating me up not knowing if i should go get some climbing class' so i'm more prepared or if there's side trails for the really hairy parts ...
Try the high parts after dark or before daylight...:D
I have always been afraid of heights. The first time I tried to climb the AT out of the Lehigh Gap (I live nearby) I couldn't go beyond the first ledge, about a quarter of the way up. Looking for assistance, I found a book on Amazon, "Overcoming Fear of Heights" by Martin M. Antony & Karen Rowa, two psychologists (Oakland, CA: New Harbinger Publications, 2007). No, no probing of childhood traumas; this is a how-to-deal-with-it work book for acrophobes. After reading the book and working at the exercises, I went back to the Gap and got to the top.
Have I overcome my fear of heights? Not really. But I'm learning to live with it. I'd recommend that you check out the book. It's not expensive, and it has definitely helped me. Good luck!
Dennis
There are a few ladders here and there and a few places where you'll need your hands to steady or brace yourself. But there's nothing "technical" on the AT. Examples of the nastiest you'll see: nobo descent off Dragon's Tooth, ascent of Lehigh Gap (just north/east of the river; take a breath before looking back down) -- the ascent of South Kinsman, or the descent off Moosilauke, Madison, or North Carter.
The fact you included the lehigh gap climb assures me i'll be ok ... Its not like i was frozen in fear, but i was very carefull of my feet placement .... but man, was the views from the top "The moon" *Deadzone from zinc mining* amazing ... i even camped up there on a sand lot i found about 1-2 miles past the climb ...
Appreciate the responses ... i try to create threads that others can view with perhaps the same questions .... i searched but nothing was clear about the skill level really needed to finish the trail ... i'd prefer too know alittle bit ahead of time about some things ... others will come as i walk.
Good stuff.
The fact you included the lehigh gap climb assures me i'll be ok ... Its not like i was frozen in fear, but i was very carefull of my feet placement .... but man, was the views from the top "The moon" *Deadzone from zinc mining* amazing ... i even camped up there on a sand lot i found about 1-2 miles past the climb ...
Appreciate the responses ... i try to create threads that others can view with perhaps the same questions .... i searched but nothing was clear about the skill level really needed to finish the trail ... i'd prefer too know alittle bit ahead of time about some things ... others will come as i walk.
Good stuff.
Strange as it seems, I found the ridge above Palmerton to be very interesting hiking. It certainly held my attention. I didn't know the history of how it got that way, so my mind was mulling over the scenarios.
As for dealing with the scary stuff, my advice is to face into the hill, even if you're on a descent. In other words, descend as you would a ladder. (You wouldn't think of descending a ladder facing downhill.) Another option is to "crab" downhill -- ease yourself down on hands and feet, with your butt low to the ground. This works for long, steep rock slabs, especially where hand-holds are scarce.
Just posted a picture of a ladder in NJ just south of the NY line. I was going SB and had to climb down it. No big deal, just hold on!
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=28101&c=558
Yeah, i've climbed lehigh gap a few times .... its getting easier more an more i do it ... its one of my favorite sections here in the NE from lehigh to wind gap ... That ladder there is no problem ... i'm thinking about the ones in maine where i saw they were like 20-25 feet tall ....
Yeah, i've climbed lehigh gap a few times .... its getting easier more an more i do it ... its one of my favorite sections here in the NE from lehigh to wind gap ... That ladder there is no problem ... i'm thinking about the ones in maine where i saw they were like 20-25 feet tall ....
Not a problem. Face into the hill and take it one step at a time.
Blissful
09-29-2008, 21:37
Here's (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=23262&catid=member&imageuser=6008) a good ladder in northern NH. Wasn't too bad though. The one on Speck was no fun.
Blissful
09-29-2008, 21:39
Yeah, i've climbed lehigh gap a few times .... its getting easier more an more i do it ... its one of my favorite sections here in the NE from lehigh to wind gap ... That ladder there is no problem ... i'm thinking about the ones in maine where i saw they were like 20-25 feet tall ....
There's also a small one when you get to NY.
How are you with stile hopping in VA? Now there is an interesting climb over the multitudes of fencing. Finally figured out how to do it after the sixth one.
Blissful
09-29-2008, 21:40
Just posted a picture of a ladder in NJ just south of the NY line. I was going SB and had to climb down it. No big deal, just hold on!
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=28101&c=558
I thought that one was in NY. (?)
Here's (http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=23262&catid=member&imageuser=6008) a good ladder in northern NH. Wasn't too bad though. The one on Speck was no fun.
That right there is exactly what i'm talkin about .... lol
I'm quite afraid of heights, and there were never any points where I contemplated turning around or not continuing on. But I did have to slow down and take my time on some of the nasty descents. especially in the Mahoosuc range in southern Maine/northern NH. The ladders weren't a problem at all for me. The worst parts were the extremely slick sections of exposed granite. It rained on me every day for a week coming north out of Gorham, and some of those exposed rocky sections were like ice. I took a good spill just a few yards before the NH/ME border. I didn't mind the rocky sections because you could almost always find a leg or foothold, but the exposed, slick stuff with nothing to hang onto was scary.
But don't worry. By the time you get there, you'll be well prepared for it, and you won't have any trouble getting through.
The ladders weren't a problem at all for me. The worst parts were the extremely slick sections of exposed granite. It rained on me every day for a week coming north out of Gorham, and some of those exposed rocky sections were like ice. I took a good spill just a few yards before the NH/ME border. I didn't mind the rocky sections because you could almost always find a leg or foothold, but the exposed, slick stuff with nothing to hang onto was scary.
I agree with all of this. Wet stuff is the worst. Wet rock or wet wood. Hiking in rain, or just after rain, is where you really need to be careful.
I agree with all of this. Wet stuff is the worst. Wet rock or wet wood. Hiking in rain, or just after rain, is where you really need to be careful.
From experiance living in PA, i agree 100% ... i hike rain or shine and i was actually on hawk mountain during hanna's run thro ... Before i bought my merrell's i had serious issues ... but those boots are king ... least IMO ... but the threads not about boots ... heh
My brother's taking a bad fall which pretty much left him never wanting to hike again ... So i hike alone nowadays which i like better anyway ...
But yes, wet rocks are the worst ... specially in highly humid area's with little sun .. soon as they get wet ... its like an ice slick on rocks you wouldn't think would be slick .... i've had a few ankle turner's, but learned the hard way about rocks.
As for dealing with the scary stuff, my advice is to face into the hill, even if you're on a descent. In other words, descend as you would a ladder. (You wouldn't think of descending a ladder facing downhill.) Another option is to "crab" downhill -- ease yourself down on hands and feet, with your butt low to the ground. This works for long, steep rock slabs, especially where hand-holds are scarce.
Good advice.
The worst parts were the extremely slick sections of exposed granite..
Can be greasy.
I have the willies sometimes, I just try to put them in their box.
The worst are wet, flat, bog logs.
There were a couple times when I thought I was going to fall right off Katahdin... especially right by the sign.
D'Artagnan
09-30-2008, 15:02
My fear of heights always kicks in when I'm around "manmade" objects like fire towers. For some reason, I have an irrational fear that the structure will fail while I'm on it. Cliffs and the like don't really bother me that much. Thankfully, the towers are optional.
Cookerhiker
09-30-2008, 18:20
FWIW if you decide to stroll up the Long Trail in VT, you'll encounter lots of ladders around Mansfield.
LIhikers
09-30-2008, 23:35
My wife and I hiked southbound through Vermont this year and had to go up an aluminum, extension ladder.
Tennessee Viking
09-30-2008, 23:47
Caears Head State Park in South Carolina has a couple areas of ladder scrambling on the Naturaland Trail down the cliffs of a 400 ft waterfall. I do well on heights as long as I know I have stable ground underneath me. When I am on a ladder, I start shaking.
My wife and I hiked southbound through Vermont this year and had to go up an aluminum, extension ladder.
The ladder wasn't there when I went by...your lucky.
There are a few ladders here and there and a few places where you'll need your hands to steady or brace yourself. But there's nothing "technical" on the AT. Examples of the nastiest you'll see: nobo descent off Dragon's Tooth, ascent of Lehigh Gap (just north/east of the river; take a breath before looking back down) -- the ascent of South Kinsman, or the descent off Moosilauke, Madison, or North Carter.
I may be nuts... but I didn't find Lehigh Gap nasty.
I may be nuts... but I didn't find Lehigh Gap nasty.
It's mostly just a bit of vertigo at a few key moments. If you're walking SOBO, there's that instant where you think, "no way the trail goes down this way." But it does.
http://www.terrapinphoto.com/lehigh.jpg
Great pic, going down does appear much worse.... going up was no biggie though.
Even going down there's basically only one rock that's a problem, that you have to use your hands. Other than that, it's big staircase.
I wouldn't particularly want to do it when it's icy, though.
And you do get a great view of the valley.
leeki pole
10-01-2008, 11:22
just remember the first commandment of climbing...."three points of contact" and you'll be fine.
The Solemates
10-01-2008, 12:40
what about these spots?
No jumping rope on that trail.
Must have been a blast. (c'mon, you know you had fun on it.)
Yeah, only that one rock near the edge of the cliff is the point on lehigh gap .... thats the only part that had me needing to pump myself up to climb that 3-5 feet ... once i was up i was fine ... my feet needed to leave the ground ... there is another section that goes straight up an over but i didn't take it ... I think it sticks in my head cause it was only a section hike i was doing and i was carrying alot more weight than normal ... i had 4 frozen steaks in my pack, a small grill for the open fire ... etc.etc ... so my pack was in the back of my head when doing it i guess ... If you slip there, there's no falling an getting back up ... your done.
TunnelvisionGAME09
10-01-2008, 12:57
There are a couple of ladders when you're on the Pates in Maine, nothing too bad though. They're really just there for ease.
I agree with the rungs on Hunt Trail, some of them I couldn't figure out. Sometimes climbing the natural is easier than working with the human manipulation.
It's mostly just a bit of vertigo at a few key moments. If you're walking SOBO, there's that instant where you think, "no way the trail goes down this way." But it does.
Now THAT is a photo! The KTA has been looking for a new picture for the front of the next edition PA A.T. guide - if they still are, I'd put that in contention!
(A lot better than the current pic - which is of New Jersey, but they excuse that by captioning it "View from Mt. Minsi" )
Blissful
10-01-2008, 13:40
Great photos. I had one rock at Lehigh NOBO that was terrible. In fact I stood there and refused to climb it, even though Paul Bunyan zoomed up it. Finally I had to give him my pack and then I could do it (that and the ridgerunner was coming up behind me, so it gave me another incentive to move it)
Yeah, its basicly just that one rock ....
Straight forward question for you folks uncomfortable with heights:
There's a section of another trail where for about a half mile one needs to step over rock crevices that go down maybe 8' each from fairly flat rock to fairly flat rock; but are no more than 2' wide.
I've never seen a good picture of this area but it's described here: http://www.pahikes.com/trails/midstate11.asp
Would such a trail bring up issues for you?
Straight forward question for you folks uncomfortable with heights:
There's a section of another trail where for about a half mile one needs to step over rock crevices that go down maybe 8' each from fairly flat rock to fairly flat rock; but are no more than 2' wide.
I've never seen a good picture of this area but it's described here: http://www.pahikes.com/trails/midstate11.asp
Would such a trail bring up issues for you?
Probably.
superman
10-03-2008, 20:58
Winter and I hiked the LT in 99 before doing the AT as a shake down/training hike. People kept telling me as we hiked north that Winter would never make it. The steep climb Winter did a lot easier than me. When we first encountered wooden ladders I took Winter's pack off and I was taking mine off as I realized Winter just started climbing the ladder on her own. I didn't know if I should take her pack off each time but she didn't wait for me to do it. Some times she went around the ladder and some times she could walk up it and other times she did a paw over paw climb. It was on the LT that Winter began looking at me like I was handi-capped for having only two legs.
When we hiked the AT people said there were places dogs had to be hoisted up or down. One hiker asked how Winter got up Albert Mountain. She just walked...with ease. When we got to that Dragon cliff I didn't know what to do. I stood at the top speculating if I could rig something with my bear bag cord and if it would hold Winter's 70 lbs. As I stood there Winter started down on her own with her pack on. She's walk in one direction and then drop straight down to the next lower ridge reversing her direction each time. It was hard as hell to watch but she did it with such confidence and so little effort. I felt like a slug as she patiently waited for me to climb down.
Winter had no problem on any of the cow stiles. In fact she showed other dogs how to get passed them by repeating how she did it. When we went through pastures the cowes started coming after her. She tucked right in close behind me and the cows couldn't see her. She thought of that...not me. We have encountered some difficulty on a couple ladders going down. I went down the ladder facing her, with her front paws on my sholders and she just walked down with her back paws.
Winter made it all look easy. She's too old to hike now.
mick2360
08-29-2010, 20:51
A useful thread that I thought I'd bump up as it is an issue for me on my training hikes here on the NY/NJ border. I'm thinking of doing some bouldering or climbing classes after getting a grip on the basic issue of anxiety that seems to crop up when I face shelves or steep drops. Exposure makes me dizzy; interestingly, flying or heights on roller coasters are fun for me.
Got some work to do here but I'd like to make some progress to enable me to be more confident at the steeper portions of the trail. Anyone else dealing with this?
Here's the thing - some thousands of people have hiked every inch of the AT. If all these people can do it, why can't I (you)?
Wise Old Owl
08-29-2010, 21:23
Great photos. I had one rock at Lehigh NOBO that was terrible. In fact I stood there and refused to climb it, even though Paul Bunyan zoomed up it. Finally I had to give him my pack and then I could do it (that and the ridgerunner was coming up behind me, so it gave me another incentive to move it)
Do we have a pic?:banana
mick2360
08-29-2010, 21:35
Here's the thing - some thousands of people have hiked every inch of the AT. If all these people can do it, why can't I (you)?
And that is EXACTLY the thought that will keep me going at this until I am ready to book the flight down south. :-?
If you can step off a ladder onto a roof, you are fine. First time I did that, I was nervous, too.
mick2360
08-30-2010, 21:55
If you can step off a ladder onto a roof, you are fine. First time I did that, I was nervous, too.
Funny thing is, as a kid I worked several stories up on scaffolding spraying a cement composite onto buildings; never gave it a thought. I'm going to talk to my doctore, read up on fear of heights and come up with a game plan. But your response cuts to the core of the issue; take the next step!
Gosh, what a picture of Lehigh Gap. I had no idea. Beautiful and scary.
I did Ute Mountain Reservation, Colorado hike with ladders years ago where we climbed onto ledges up long ladders. It was not so much the climb up, it was the stepping off a ledge, a very high ledge on to a ladder to get back down. I was shaking. I am fine on the ups, the going down is the scary part. The thing is I am usually not afraid of heights. I have parachuted once solo and loved it. I think it is a balance thing. I have the same issue with roofs.
The post above about Winter the dog, very cool. Thanks for the story.
Trail Bug
08-31-2010, 07:24
Just finished up from Pinkham Notch to Katahdin. The place that caused me the most problems was going over Baldpate Mountain. I thought it was pretty steep with little to hold on to. Especially when I ran out of trees and roots. A little rebar would have been nice. I'm glad I was not going SoBo. There was also one spot on Speck mountain that I had to think about for a few minutes. I guess as we get older that exposure becomes more of a problem.