PDA

View Full Version : Reasons to avoid shelters



Pages : [1] 2

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 13:25
Here are ten reasons I avoid shelters. I am sure you have many of your own...

1. Sleeping with strangers is creepy
2. Sleeping with mice is disgusting
3. Sleeping with snorers is not sleeping
4. People come and go at different times interrupting your sleep or what you are doing
5. People tend to take up more room than they need
6. Large groups show up when you least expect it and most are whining, spoiled kids
7. People fart at will
8. Thru-hikers often think they are special and you need to make room for them, usually when there ain't none
9. Normally civilized folks in real life, have no manners in shelters
10. People think their dogs are welcome or if they ask, they think people will answer honestly

Do you open your house to just anyone walking by, I don't.

NICKTHEGREEK
09-30-2008, 13:29
Here are ten reasons I avoid shelters. I am sure you have many of your own...

1. Sleeping with strangers is creepy
2. Sleeping with mice is disgusting
3. Sleeping with snorers is not sleeping
4. People come and go at different times interrupting your sleep or what you are doing
5. People tend to take up more room than they need
6. Large groups show up when you least expect it and most are whining, spoiled kids
7. People fart at will
8. Thru-hikers often think they are special and you need to make room for them, usually when there ain't none
9. Normally civilized folks in real life, have no manners in shelters
10. Do you open your house to just anyone walking by, I don't
Hiker funk adds exponentially. Twice as many stinks 4 times as much

FatMan
09-30-2008, 13:34
There is only one reason for me to avoid shelters...Shelters Suck!

Short Term
09-30-2008, 13:40
1. Mice
2. Mice in the morning.
3. Mice at night.
4. Mice on the floor.
5. Mice on the roof.

...and you can guess what the bottom 5 are, right? MICE!!! At least other hikers don't keep you up all night scampering across the roof! :D

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 13:47
Here are ten reasons I avoid shelters. I am sure you have many of your own...

1. Sleeping with strangers is creepy
2. Sleeping with mice is disgusting
3. Sleeping with snorers is not sleeping
4. People come and go at different times interrupting your sleep or what you are doing
5. People tend to take up more room than they need
6. Large groups show up when you least expect it and most are whining, spoiled kids
7. People fart at will
8. Thru-hikers often think they are special and you need to make room for them, usually when there ain't none
9. Normally civilized folks in real life, have no manners in shelters
10. People think their dogs are welcome or if they ask, they think people will answer honestly

Do you open your house to just anyone walking by, I don't.

11. shelters are filthy and the floors are hard

Gray Blazer
09-30-2008, 13:58
A lot of them have holes in the roofs and will leak when raining making them not really good shelter. I can't believe some thrubees (I've heard of some) don't bring a tent and plan on sleeping in a shelter every night. Does that ever happen? Has anyone ever made it all the way only sleeping in shelters? My son ran into a guy who only carried trail mix and slept in a shelter every night.

Yukon
09-30-2008, 14:01
I think shelters are good to have on the trail in the case that someone truely NEEDS to have one. Me, I'll stick to tenting it :)

Pedaling Fool
09-30-2008, 14:02
A lot of them have holes in the roofs and will leak when raining making them not really good shelter. I can't believe some thrubees (I've heard of some) don't bring a tent and plan on sleeping in a shelter every night. Does that ever happen? Has anyone ever made it all the way only sleeping in shelters? My son ran into a guy who only carried trail mix and slept in a shelter every night.
I've known people that have done this for sections. One guy did it in the last part of Maine; he got caught in a rainstorm on the south side of the Kennebec, he planned to cross it but couldn't. He ended up sleeping under a guy that had a hammock.

Marta
09-30-2008, 14:07
A lot of them have holes in the roofs and will leak when raining making them not really good shelter. I can't believe some thrubees (I've heard of some) don't bring a tent and plan on sleeping in a shelter every night. Does that ever happen? Has anyone ever made it all the way only sleeping in shelters? My son ran into a guy who only carried trail mix and slept in a shelter every night.

I met a SOBO in '04 who had gone tentless since about Vermont. It wouldn't be all that hard to use shelters all the way on a SOBO hike. I only used my tent early on (July and Aug.) because of the bugs. I carried a tent the whole way, though. It was good exercise, I guess.:D

PS--The mouse issue pretty much goes away when the weather gets cold, too. Mice are not fools--they stay holed up in the warm little nests they've made with the pack towels and bandannas of earlier hikers.

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 14:11
One good thing about shelters... it saves the good tenting areas for people who know better.

dessertrat
09-30-2008, 14:30
11. shelters are filthy and the floors are hard

That's right: tent floors are much cleaner, and if you don't have a nice pad, pine needles or leaves are soft through your tent floor. (Try it sometime!)

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 14:37
One other thing that folks don't like think about, never mind acknowledging:

Spending time in proximity to large numbers of unwashed strangers is a REALLY good way to get sick. Such things as colds, flus, fevers, intestinal bugs, etc. are all much easier to catch in these conditions.

While we're at it:

*Be leery of sharing food and drink with strangers, i.e. dipping into strange
pots or sharing water bottles. Most folks out there have a worse level of
personal hygeine than you do, and yours is probably pretty bad.

*Keep other people's hands out of your gorp or jerky bag. Unless of course
you enjoy people handling your food three minutes after they just wiped
their ass.

*Don't eat while reading shelter journals, or wash you hands after you do
for same reason as above.

*Carry hand sanitizer all the time and USE it. Most folks that get sick out
there get sick because of poor hygeine and sanitation, and not because
of bad water, etc.

*Avoid sleeping in shelters unless you have to. They tend to be filthy. You'll
sleep better in a tent and will certainly stay healthier.

Short Term
09-30-2008, 14:38
PS--The mouse issue pretty much goes away when the weather gets cold, too. Mice are not fools--they stay holed up in the warm little nests they've made with the pack towels and bandannas of earlier hikers.


I disagree, I spent a night at Sassafrass Gap Shelter when the temps were in the teens and we still had visitors. Or should I say the mice had visitors. All in all, just another reason to avoid shelters!

bigcranky
09-30-2008, 14:47
Do you open your house to just anyone walking by, I don't.


Huh. The shelter isn't my house, so there is no real comparison. It's a place for sharing the trail and the experience with other hikers.

1. Meeting other hikers with varied interests and backgrounds is cool.
2. My bivy/cover (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15028&catid=member&imageuser=266) has mesh over the upper body and head. No mice.
3. One work: Earplugs. Maybe that's two words.
4. I sleep like a log.
5. Sometimes true. So?
6. Large groups and whining kids are also allowed to use the trail and the shelters. Teach by example.
7. Yeah, I do that. Nobody notices on account of the hiker funk.
8. They will eventually learn. Or not.
9. No, those people (and I haven't met that many) don't have any manners in the "real" world either.
10. So answer truthfully.

Maybe my experience is flawed because I mostly hike in cold weather. Fewer hikers, no mice. But there are plenty of times that I've been happy to get to a shelter at the end of the day. It's just another part of the A.T. experience. (And yes, I always carry my own shelter, too.)

rafe
09-30-2008, 14:48
This anti-shelter cluster4uk is truly a Whiteblaze fetish. I guess the Kennebec thread ran out of steam, Tin Man needed to dredge up another crap topic to hash over. ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzzz.

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 14:55
Instead of insulting other people and their threads, Terrapin, why not start one of your own? :-?

Or better yet, if a subject doesn't interest you, there's always another easy option: Don't join the conversation.

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 14:56
This anti-shelter cluster4uk is truly a Whiteblaze fetish. I guess the Kennebec thread ran out of steam, Tin Man needed to dredge up another crap topic to hash over. ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzzz.

I am not sure why you continually think folks are just trying to stir things up. We were talking shelters and dogs in another thread and superman asked if there was a thread about about avoiding shelters. I intended to post a link to an old discussion, but did not find one quickly. With all the new members, I thought it might be helpful to explain why some of us avoid shelters. So, if you have nothing pro or con to say about staying in shelters, then you are the one stirring things up.

rafe
09-30-2008, 14:58
Because, Jack (and TinMan), the newbies deserve to know that the anti-shelter stuff is pretty unique to WhiteBlaze. In 35 years of hiking, I'd never heard this kind of talk till I arrived at WhiteBlaze -- and Whiteblaze is not the first online hiking forum that I've been part of.

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 15:00
Because, Jack (TinMan), the newbies deserve to know that the anti-shelter stuff is pretty unique to WhiteBlaze. In 35 years of hiking, I'd never heard this kind of talk till I arrived at WhiteBlaze -- and Whiteblaze is not the first online hiking forum that I've been part of.

Then state your opinion on shelters. That is what the thread is about.

rafe
09-30-2008, 15:02
Then state your opinion on shelters. That is what the thread is about.

No thanks, your bait isn't appealing just now. Some other time, maybe. You may correctly infer that I disagree with the opening premise of the thread.

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 15:04
Well Terrapin's entitled to his opinion, but I heard hikers comment (and complain) about shelters long before Whiteblaze ever existed. For him to say
that comments of this sort are limited to this website simply isn't true.

rafe
09-30-2008, 15:06
Well Terrapin's entitled to his opinion, but I heard hikers comment (and complain) about shelters long before Whiteblaze ever existed. For him to say that comments of this sort are limited to this website simply isn't true.

Please, provide a cite or link to a comparable anti-shelter sentiment on another hiking forum (preferably one where you and/or LoneWolf aren't BMOCs.)

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 15:06
but I heard hikers comment (and complain) about shelters long before Whiteblaze ever existed. For him to say
that comments of this sort are limited to this website simply isn't true.

yup i heard "shelters suck" on my first AT hike 22 years ago

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 15:08
Huh. The shelter isn't my house, so there is no real comparison. It's a place for sharing the trail and the experience with other hikers.

1. Meeting other hikers with varied interests and backgrounds is cool.
2. My bivy/cover (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=15028&catid=member&imageuser=266) has mesh over the upper body and head. No mice.
3. One work: Earplugs. Maybe that's two words.
4. I sleep like a log.
5. Sometimes true. So?
6. Large groups and whining kids are also allowed to use the trail and the shelters. Teach by example.
7. Yeah, I do that. Nobody notices on account of the hiker funk.
8. They will eventually learn. Or not.
9. No, those people (and I haven't met that many) don't have any manners in the "real" world either.
10. So answer truthfully.

Maybe my experience is flawed because I mostly hike in cold weather. Fewer hikers, no mice. But there are plenty of times that I've been happy to get to a shelter at the end of the day. It's just another part of the A.T. experience. (And yes, I always carry my own shelter, too.)

Gonna have to agree. Love to tent, love the shelters. I'm a guy who likes to have a fire... sometimes in the morning too. I've stayed at shelters for a few days at a stretch in the winter time... when it's not crowded. Glad most people don't want to stay in them...

What I like most is plopping down, taking up too much space dropping my pack in the center of the shelter, let out a good fart and turn the conversation to politics... Snore like a bear, pee twice during the night and have a blast doing it. Gotta love shelter life:D

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 15:09
Um, Terrapin, my comments about where I'd heard other anti-shelter sentiment was referring to comments made over the years out on the Trail and by other hikers.

Believe it or not, for some of us, when we're talking about time spent in the hiking community, we're not merely talking about the time we spend hanging out on the Internet. :D

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 15:10
Please, provide a cite or link to a comparable anti-shelter sentiment on another hiking forum (preferably one where you and/or LoneWolf aren't BMOCs.)

all other hiker forums hardly have any contributors. they're all here so why don't you start a "shelters are glorious" thread for you and your ilk

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 15:10
And just for reference, I believe the same dirt and grime that ends up in a shelter at the end of the day, also ends up in ones tent. You walk all day, you stop and no matter what you do to shake it all off, scrub it, rub it, or dry it... your gonna bring some of the mountain in with you. Dirt does not kill you.

MOWGLI
09-30-2008, 15:10
Why the drama? Don't like shelters? Don't stay in them! Or find a trail that doesn't have shelters.

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 15:11
Well Terrapin's entitled to his opinion, but I heard hikers comment (and complain) about shelters long before Whiteblaze ever existed. For him to say
that comments of this sort are limited to this website simply isn't true.

But he isn't stating his opinion about shelters. He is stating his opinion about those who post about avoiding shelters. Instead, he might consider stating why he feels shelters are such a great place to stay, but I suspect he knows he doesn't have a compelling argument and is unwilling to admit someone else is right.

Pedaling Fool
09-30-2008, 15:16
The hell with the "newbies", like another forum out there or any other source of information one uses to gather data you got to take in all information and process it for yourself. Thereís BS in any source of info (including books at a library), WB is no exception, yes thereís a lot of BS, but thereís also a lot of good.

P.S. I can say, "the hell with the newbies", because Iím basically one I havenít been here too long, about the same time Iíve been a part of the AT community. Iím just a baby in this world.

Jeff
09-30-2008, 15:20
The PCT and CDT do quite well without shelters.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 15:21
The PCT and CDT do quite well without shelters.

and ferry services

superman
09-30-2008, 15:24
But he isn't stating his opinion about shelters. He is stating his opinion about those who post about avoiding shelters. Instead, he might consider stating why he feels shelters are such a great place to stay, but I suspect he knows he doesn't have a compelling argument and is unwilling to admit someone else is right.

LMAO...good thread:D

Lyle
09-30-2008, 15:26
Shelters aren't all that bad. They are a very social and unique part of the AT (and a few other eastern trails). They offer pleasant company and enjoyable evenings the vast majority of time. The not-so-nice times are filed away with most other less than pleasant experiences on the trail and vastly eclipsed by the good ones.

Always carry your own shelter and if you come upon a group or individual that may not be to your liking, then move on out. Not a problem. Generally shelters are an enjoyable experience for most. If you don't enjoy them, you will find that out soon enough and can then enjoy your tent or tarp. Not really an issue that requires a lot of debate or argument, no one is forcing the experience on anyone (except in the Smokies).

bigmac_in
09-30-2008, 15:31
Before I had ever set foot on the AT, I had 3 different people tell me to stay in a tent. These are people I met in person, who had been on the AT. They clued me into the rodent populations in shelters, the propensity of some to urinate in or near shelters, leave trash in or around shelters, and the close quarters with some hikers that can be annoying to you for one reason or another. This was enough to convince me to carry a tent.

Since I've been hiking the AT, I've seen and heard enough on my own to know it would take a pretty drastic weather event to get me to spend a night in a shelter.

sticks&stones
09-30-2008, 15:34
Shelters are festering with all sorts of nasty contagents, during peak. During winter, after walking thru umpteen miles of snow and cold I have convinced myself that they are not as nasty, and since there the only dry ground available, and the register hasnt been signed in 4 weeks, well why not. But during peak, they do make hikers sick. They spread whatevers going around. If your softhanded, and from the city, chances are you'll contract something during heavy shelter use season. seen it a zillion times

Two Speed
09-30-2008, 15:37
By the time I'd done my 2nd or 3rd five day section on the AT in Georgia I'd decided I didn't like shelters. This was during the early '80's, so the shelters in Georgia were the three sided jobs. Always wet when it rained and always had lots of mice.

Camp nearby and enjoy the social scene? Cook dinner there? Stop on a rainy day for lunch? Sure, but very rarely sleep in one.

Stir Fry
09-30-2008, 15:38
Some of the older shelters ant so nice, but teen those that have been rebilt are nice. Love them when its raining. If everyony followed the rules mice would go away.

Pedaling Fool
09-30-2008, 15:45
Just like Karl's thread, and others I've seen, the page counter for this thread is indicating 3 pages, but there's only 2:confused:

rafe
09-30-2008, 15:54
Shelters aren't all that bad. They are a very social and unique part of the AT (and a few other eastern trails). They offer pleasant company and enjoyable evenings the vast majority of time. The not-so-nice times are filed away with most other less than pleasant experiences on the trail and vastly eclipsed by the good ones.

Always carry your own shelter and if you come upon a group or individual that may not be to your liking, then move on out. Not a problem. Generally shelters are an enjoyable experience for most. If you don't enjoy them, you will find that out soon enough and can then enjoy your tent or tarp. Not really an issue that requires a lot of debate or argument, no one is forcing the experience on anyone (except in the Smokies).


Well said. That pretty much sums up my attitude as well.

Pedaling Fool
09-30-2008, 16:04
Just like Karl's thread, and others I've seen, the page counter for this thread is indicating 3 pages, but there's only 2:confused:
Something else that I've noticed is that when a thread starts doing this it's also accompanied by another problem.

The problem being: when I hit the "Go to first new Post" button, the computer only goes to the top of whichever page the last post is on.

Just wondering if anyone else experiences the same problem?

Hoop Time
09-30-2008, 16:48
Newbie question here: I have heard all about the mice. But Cookie Monster really wants to spend a night in a shelter on her first overnighter on the AT (probably in the spring, though could still happen this fall).

Are the mice a problem on the second level of a two level shelter like Peters Mountain?

I have a nice small bivvy tent that is plenty light enough to carry, so a shelter is not a neccessity. But she thinks it would be cool (but she also would be freaked out by a mouse running across her, as would most 12-year-old girls (and her mom)

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 16:51
John, as it gets to the end I have realized that it anticipates the next post.... bet this is on page 3

Phreak
09-30-2008, 16:54
I find too many 'bottom-feeders' hanging out at shelters.

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 16:54
Newbie question here: I have heard all about the mice. But Cookie Monster really wants to spend a night in a shelter on her first overnighter on the AT (probably in the spring, though could still happen this fall).

Are the mice a problem on the second level of a two level shelter like Peters Mountain?

I have a nice small bivvy tent that is plenty light enough to carry, so a shelter is not a neccessity. But she thinks it would be cool (but she also would be freaked out by a mouse running across her, as would most 12-year-old girls (and her mom)


There has never been enough mice in a shelter to make it bother me. I have not stayed in a lot of shelters, maybe 20 but... seriously folks, we're out in nature. Mice aren't that bad. I used to have one as a pet...named him stewie. He was afraid of heights and didn't run, so he was an odd mouse. Spiders bother me more, always sweep them out first:D

whitegloves
09-30-2008, 16:55
Shelters are nice in the rain If not crowded. They usually have a flat place to sit and cook a meal. There must be something else but I can't think what.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 16:55
Newbie question here: I have heard all about the mice. But Cookie Monster really wants to spend a night in a shelter on her first overnighter on the AT (probably in the spring, though could still happen this fall).

Are the mice a problem on the second level of a two level shelter like Peters Mountain?

I have a nice small bivvy tent that is plenty light enough to carry, so a shelter is not a neccessity. But she thinks it would be cool (but she also would be freaked out by a mouse running across her, as would most 12-year-old girls (and her mom)

mice are a problen on all levels. just don't sleep with your heads to the wall

rafe
09-30-2008, 16:56
Newbie question here: I have heard all about the mice. But Cookie Monster really wants to spend a night in a shelter on her first overnighter on the AT (probably in the spring, though could still happen this fall).

In my experience, whether mice will be a problem or not largely depends on the season, and who's been at the shelter before you, and whether or not the prior hikers dealt properly with food storage, cooking, and litter.

I hiked SOBO in 2007, in August and September, well away from the thru-hiker waves, had shelters to myself most of the time, and had (almost) no problem with mice. One notable exception was Calf Mtn. shelter in SNP, which clearly had seen a lot of traffic and was noticeably grungy on arrival.

Generally, if a shelter doesn't appeal to me, I don't stay there. At Calf Mtn. I should have trusted my senses and tented. FWIW, Peters Mtn. Shelter was fine. I shared it with one other hiker.

Panzer1
09-30-2008, 16:56
Are the mice a problem on the second level of a two level shelter like Peters Mountain?

Lets put it this way, it will easier for the mice to get up there than it will be for you to get up there.:D:D:D

Panzer

Chenango
09-30-2008, 17:02
You guys are funny to read. BTW, I slept in shelters Friday (Bromley) and Saturday (Peru Peak) in Vermont this past weekend. I stayed dry when it rained, there were no mice, and I had lots of room. I used my ear plugs and slept well. On other trips I have had mice, procupine, skunk, and homeless folk problems. I take is as it comes. If I want to use my tent, I do. It is up to me. What about hike your own hike? Anyway, keep on going back and forth. This is very amusing!

Lyle
09-30-2008, 17:02
Newbie question here: I have heard all about the mice. But Cookie Monster really wants to spend a night in a shelter on her first overnighter on the AT (probably in the spring, though could still happen this fall).

Are the mice a problem on the second level of a two level shelter like Peters Mountain?

I have a nice small bivvy tent that is plenty light enough to carry, so a shelter is not a neccessity. But she thinks it would be cool (but she also would be freaked out by a mouse running across her, as would most 12-year-old girls (and her mom)



Mice have no aversion to checking out the upper story as much as the lower.

One way to help avoid mice running over your face are to sleep toward the center of the shelter (not against a wall) with your head toward the open side. Mice tend to run along the walls (but not always) so keeping your head away from the walls reduces the amount of mouse traffic. You probably won't feel or notice them scampering across your feet. Sleeping this way also helps to alert you to rain coming into the shelter faster, before your bag gets the foot end soaked through.

I've slept at many shelters without noticing any mouse activity, others will be quite active and annoying. Luck of the draw any given night. Have a great time. :D

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 17:02
mice are a problen on all levels. just don't sleep with your heads to the wall


Mice are usually a problem when you give them a food source. Like sleeping with your food.

FYI, a mouse can chew through a tent wall in a matter of seconds. Seen it first hand.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 17:07
FYI, a mouse can chew through a tent wall in a matter of seconds. Seen it first hand.

FYI, a mouse never chewed through my tent wall ever. Never seen it :rolleyes:

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 17:07
Newbie question here: I have heard all about the mice. But Cookie Monster really wants to spend a night in a shelter on her first overnighter on the AT (probably in the spring, though could still happen this fall).

Are the mice a problem on the second level of a two level shelter like Peters Mountain?

I have a nice small bivvy tent that is plenty light enough to carry, so a shelter is not a neccessity. But she thinks it would be cool (but she also would be freaked out by a mouse running across her, as would most 12-year-old girls (and her mom)

Some hold a somewhat romantic notion about staying in a shelter that after 1 or 10 times fades away depending on the experience. Yes, mice inhabit all levels of a shelter, they climb quite well. Some shelters have larger populations than others. Some shelters are filthier than others. I am not familiar with the one you are referring to, but if you plan to stay in one, I recommend the following:

1) bring a tarp or something to lay underneath your sleeping pad
2) sleep with your heads away from the walls, mice travel along the walls
3) don't eat or keep food where you sleep, mice are quite adept at finding crumbs and opening foil sealed foods
4) leave packs and zippers open. if mice want in, they will eat there way through your pack

there are probably other precautions, but these are the basics

Lyle
09-30-2008, 17:16
Some hold a somewhat romantic notion about staying in a shelter that after 1 or 10 times fades away depending on the experience. Yes, mice inhabit all levels of a shelter, they climb quite well. Some shelters have larger populations than others. Some shelters are filthier than others. I am not familiar with the one you are referring to, but if you plan to stay in one, I recommend the following:

1) bring a tarp or something to lay underneath your sleeping pad
2) sleep with your heads away from the walls, mice travel along the walls
3) don't eat or keep food where you sleep, mice are quite adept at finding crumbs and opening foil sealed foods
4) leave packs and zippers open. if mice want in, they will eat there way through your pack

there are probably other precautions, but these are the basics

Let me add to your list:

5) Keep hydration bladder bite valves up off the floor, away from the mice. I've had two of them destroyed by mice. they seem to like the soft plastic the valve is made of and gnaw on it.

Stir Fry
09-30-2008, 17:23
Shelters are nice in the rain If not crowded. They usually have a flat place to sit and cook a meal. There must be something else but I can't think what.
This is why there are mice.

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 17:30
FYI, a mouse never chewed through my tent wall ever. Never seen it :rolleyes:

That's uncharacteristic of you to disagree. Pardon me, you said you've seen everything:rolleyes:

rafe
09-30-2008, 17:31
Some hold a somewhat romantic notion about staying in a shelter that after 1 or 10 times fades away depending on the experience.

And why exactly does that concern you? :-? I mean, seriously, in what way does someone else's "romantic notion" impact you or your hike? I mean, you clearly have a low opinion of what "others" may have inferred from their own experience. So please, don't try to claim that there's anything selfless or altruistic about your initial post. It won't wash.

It's not like we're arguing about the best stove or sleeping bag or pack or tent. It's not a decision you need to make before your hike. Every hiker can decide for his or her self whether or not he or she wants to stay at a given shelter. Speaking personally -- it's often a choice that I don't make until I get there and look it over. If it's ugly, or if I don't care for the folks gathered there, or if I'd rather have the privacy of my tent that night, I move on. If it's nice, and it suits my mood or whim, I stay. Simple!

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 17:37
And why exactly does that concern you? :-? I mean, seriously, in what way does someone else's "romantic notion" impact you or your hike? I mean, you clearly have a low opinion of what "others" may have inferred from their own experience. So please, don't try to claim that there's anything selfless or altruistic about your initial post. It won't wash.

It's not like we're arguing about the best stove or sleeping bag or pack or tent. It's not a decision you need to make before your hike. Every hiker can decide for his or her self whether or not he or she wants to stay at a given shelter. Speaking personally -- it's often a choice that I don't make until I get there and look it over. If it's ugly, or if I don't care for the folks gathered there, or if I'd rather have the privacy of my tent that night, I move on. If it's nice, and it suits my mood or whim, I stay. Simple!

The first time I walked on the AT I was 13 and on my second night I stayed at Garfield hut and did Franconia Ridge the next day. Staying at that hut, meeting thru hikers made me want to hike the AT. If it wasn't for a bail out 7 years ago, it would have happened already. But it's still a life long goal, mainly because of the impression that a shelter made on me.

Thought it was the coolest thing in the world when I was a kid, a little house for anyone to use in the middle of the woods. THERES MICE, IT"S DIRTY, YOU CAN GET WET, THE GROUND IS HARD,

Remind me, how does this differ from any other part of the forest.

MOWGLI
09-30-2008, 17:45
Compared to a shelter floor, the forest floor is soft.

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 17:48
Compared to a shelter floor, the forest floor is soft.


You ever slept at 13 Falls? Or one of the "extra runoff" spots at Guyot in the Whites? I have been to both places and I would have gladly taken the comparably softer, shelter floor vs. unmovable pointy rocks.

rafe
09-30-2008, 17:50
Compared to a shelter floor, the forest floor is soft.

Generally, yes. But it's also flat, which the forest floor generally isn't. ;)

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 17:50
And why exactly does that concern you? :-? I mean, seriously, in what way does someone else's "romantic notion" impact you or your hike? I mean, you clearly have a low opinion of what "others" may have inferred from their own experience. So please, don't try to claim that there's anything selfless or altruistic about your initial post. It won't wash.

what are you talking about? Hoop said his family wants to stay in a shelter. my statement was a simple suggestion that a first timer might have romantic notions about staying in a shelter that fades after they try it. if you continue to find romance in sleeping with mice, go ahead and talk about that. why do you feel the need to attack me? make your statement on the issue and quit talking trash about me or my motives. sheesh. :rolleyes:


It's not like we're arguing about the best stove or sleeping bag or pack or tent. It's not a decision you need to make before your hike. Every hiker can decide for his or her self whether or not he or she wants to stay at a given shelter. Speaking personally -- it's often a choice that I don't make until I get there and look it over. If it's ugly, or if I don't care for the folks gathered there, or if I'd rather have the privacy of my tent that night, I move on. If it's nice, and it suits my mood or whim, I stay. Simple!

yes it is a choice. the thread is to share why people make comments in other threads why they avoid shelters. simple! :)

MOWGLI
09-30-2008, 17:51
You ever slept at 13 Falls? Or one of the "extra runoff" spots at Guyot in the Whites? I have been to both places and I would have gladly taken the comparably softer, shelter floor vs. unmovable pointy rocks.

Sorry. I usually don't select rock hard tent sites. :rolleyes: Mother Earth provides. But by all means, sleep in a shelter if you like. That's why they are there.

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 17:51
There are any number of wonderful places to overnight within a few minutes walk of the places you mentioned.

In my experience, people that complain about there not being good enough tent sites in a particular location haven't spent any time looking for them.

Except above treeline, ( and this means about a day and a half of the 180 days you'll be out there), if we're talking about on or near the A.T., nobody's forced to stay in a shelter. There's always an alternative.

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 17:51
I will agree, many spots are much much much softer than sleeping in a shelter. And I have enjoyed many of them. I have stayed outside of a shelter just with the tarp and a sleeping bag because of a huge pile of pine needles. I think it was collected just for that purpose.

I am sort of impartial in this thread, or trying to be, because I prefer a mix. Scrutinize you may.

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 17:56
There are any number of wonderful places to overnight within a few minutes walk of the places you mentioned.

In my experience, people that complain about there not being good enough tent sites in a particular location haven't spent any time looking for them.

Except above treeline, ( and this means about a day and a half of the 180 days you'll be out there), if we're talking about on or near the A.T., nobody's forced to stay in a shelter. There's always an alternative.

Actually, both times I have stayed at each of those sites was because someone in the group was injured. My first trip it was my fathers friend Ralph, this time it was Marje. Looking for a site with someone injured puts unnecessary strain. I was just commenting on the fact that some of the best tent sites, still aren't the most comfortable. If you bring a tent, and plan to use shelters, while your at a shelter what I like to do is lay out the tent under my pad as extra padding. Works real well.

MOWGLI
09-30-2008, 17:58
Generally, yes. But it's also flat, which the forest floor generally isn't. ;)

Campsite selection is a learned skill. Some are better at it than others. Those that are willing to explore off trail after reading a map can often be rewarded with great sites. In my experience, most hikers aren't willing to search for a site if it's not within view from the trail. And yes, a perfectly flat spot isn't always available.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 18:01
That's uncharacteristic of you to disagree. Pardon me, you said you've seen everything:rolleyes:

hey kid, you gonna send me another immature hate-filled PM? grow up :rolleyes:

sasquatch2014
09-30-2008, 18:03
I like to stop at the shelter use the table and camel up with water after cooking an early meal and then move on a few miles before setting up for the night, most of the time. There are times that I will stay at the shelter if the weather is bad I like this because it mean not packing up in the rain.

As far as the filth is concerned doesn't really bother me. Having lived for 3 years in a fraternity house and spending 4 summers sleeping in the bunk house next to the corral that during the day would hold as many as 200 horses it takes a lot to make me think twice about sleeping someplace. I don't care for the shelter mice but if you know a little about the mice sleeping a bit away from the walls helps a great deal with this problem.

What I like about pushing on is that you know there is no one that you will disturb if you get up in the night or for an early start. You can leave your headlight on and read as long as you like. Also you can choose the view that you go to bed to or wake up to, have spent more than a few nights looking down on the lights of towns in the valley.

rafe
09-30-2008, 18:06
Campsite selection is a learned skill. Some are better at it than others. Those that are willing to explore off trail after reading a map can often be rewarded with great sites. In my experience, most hikers aren't willing to search for a site if it's not within view from the trail. And yes, a perfectly flat spot isn't always available.

I agree with most of that... but if there's a nice empty shelter... or a shelter with sympatico, friendly hikers in it... I'm liable to take the lazy route and stay there.

There are circumstances, and not uncommon, where flat ground is difficult or impossible to find. The AT spends most of its time going up or going down hills and mountains. Flat ground is relatively easy to find at the peaks and in the valleys, but in-between, sometimes it gets dicey. Think sine wave. Flat ground easy at 90 degrees and 270. Not so easy at 0 and 180. ;)

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 18:10
hey kid, you gonna send me another immature hate-filled PM? grow up :rolleyes:

It wasn't hate filled. It was full of sarcasm and humor. Life is about perspective you see.

Quick to attack me for being younger though all the time. Is it cause I am bald and don't have facial hair that you don't like me?

Or is it just because your better than everyone else here.

"Men of few words are men of little wisdom."

MOWGLI
09-30-2008, 18:15
I agree with most of that... but if there's a nice empty shelter... or a shelter with sympatico, friendly hikers in it... I'm liable to take the lazy route and stay there.



No argument from me. I prefer to argue about the REALLY important things. Like stoves and sleeping bags. :rolleyes:

superman
09-30-2008, 18:16
All you folks who are going on about how great the shelters are should read the title of the thread..."Reasons to avoid shelters." Y'all should start your own thread. It could be something like...um..."Reasons to stay in a shelter.":)

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 18:22
All you folks who are going on about how great the shelters are should read the title of the thread..."Reasons to avoid shelters." Y'all should start your own thread. It could be something like...um..."Reasons to stay in a shelter.":)

If you want a one sided suggestion, hang a picture of yourself on the wall and talk, talk, talk the day away. Healthy discussions involve opinions from both sides. That way one may interpret their own way to respond. You have just chosen to antagonize a response.

Obliged.

ki0eh
09-30-2008, 18:28
Newbie question here: I have heard all about the mice. But Cookie Monster really wants to spend a night in a shelter on her first overnighter on the AT (probably in the spring, though could still happen this fall).

Are the mice a problem on the second level of a two level shelter like Peters Mountain?

I have a nice small bivvy tent that is plenty light enough to carry, so a shelter is not a neccessity. But she thinks it would be cool (but she also would be freaked out by a mouse running across her, as would most 12-year-old girls (and her mom)

Sleep with head out, rather than head in, as mice like walls.

Peters Mtn or Darlington might be better first destinations in this area than Cove Mtn, Alec Kennedy, or Rausch Gap. Darlington might be interesting as a destination from the Scott Farm to see how the, um, familiar scenic wonders of Middlesex Twp. disappear into the woods. (Best to do that before the Darlington spring dries up.)

JAK
09-30-2008, 18:48
I think shelters would be really cool in the off season, all to myself, when I could best appreciate the mice, and the winter, and the wind, and the emptiness.


In an Old Barn

Tons upon tons the brown-green fragrant hay
O'erbrims the mows beyond the time-warped eaves,
Up to the rafters where the spider weaves,
Though few flies wander his secluded way.
Through a high chink one lonely golden ray,
Wherein the dust is dancing, slants unstirred.
In the dry hush some rustlings light are heard,
Of winter-hidden mice at furtive play.
Far down, the cattle in their shadowed stalls,
Nose-deep in clover fodder's meadowy scent,
Forget the snows that whelm their pasture streams,
The frost that bites the world beyond their walls.
Warm housed, they dream of summer, well content
In day-long contemplation of their dreams.

Charles G. D. Roberts

JAK
09-30-2008, 18:54
THE WINTER FIELDS

WINDS here, and sleet, and frost that bites like steel.
The low bleak hill rounds under the low sky.
Naked of flock and fold the fallows lie,
Thin streaked with meagre drift. The gusts reveal
By fits the dim grey snakes of fence, that steal
Through the white dusk. The hill-foot poplars sigh,
While storm and death with winter trample by,
And the iron fields ring sharp, and blind lights reel.

Yet in the lonely ridges, wrenched with pain,
Harsh solitary hillocks, bound and dumb,
Grave glebes close-lipped beneath the scourge and chain,
Lurks hid the germ of ecstasyóthe sum
Of life that waits on summer, till the rain
Whisper in April and the crocus come.

Charles G.D.Roberts

superman
09-30-2008, 18:59
If you want a one sided suggestion, hang a picture of yourself on the wall and talk, talk, talk the day away. Healthy discussions involve opinions from both sides. That way one may interpret their own way to respond. You have just chosen to antagonize a response.

Obliged.

LMAO, oh gee:banana

Tin Man
09-30-2008, 19:07
stealth camping is easy and fun. you can still socialize at the shelters and you get to sleep in peace and privacy. try it sometime.

:sun

sasquatch2014
09-30-2008, 19:50
stealth camping is easy and fun. you can still socialize at the shelters and you get to sleep in peace and privacy. try it sometime.

:sun

Amen to that brother!

Plus I like to eat breakfast in the nude sometimes and people seem to not like that at the shelters.:-?

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 19:56
And what makes you think they'd wanna see it anywhere else? :D

sasquatch2014
09-30-2008, 20:00
I once had two hikers walk into my nude camp because they said they were hiking by the light of the full moon, problem was they were following the wrong moon.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 20:09
It wasn't hate filled. It was full of sarcasm and humor. Life is about perspective you see.

Quick to attack me for being younger though all the time. Is it cause I am bald and don't have facial hair that you don't like me?

Or is it just because your better than everyone else here.

"Men of few words are men of little wisdom."

you send too many PMs with cuss words at me. you have low self esteem. no humor whatsoever. i'm the last one on here to think i'm better thjan anyone. you on the other hand... just back off

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 20:15
I actually didn't swear at all in the PM. I'll copy it here if you want me too.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif the thread has been reported. have fun with the political BS. it won't last long
Don't know what we would do without mods like you!


Keep up the good work!

Ya douchebag.

That's all. Nothing but fact.

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 20:17
Se ya Homer.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 20:22
I actually didn't swear at all in the PM. I'll copy it here if you want me too.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif the thread has been reported. have fun with the political BS. it won't last long
Don't know what we would do without mods like you!


Keep up the good work!

Ya douchebag.

That's all. Nothing but fact.
i have other PMs that i've saved. give it a rest. you've got issues

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 20:24
I enjoy a good discussion, not PM's from people saying I am a a motha ****in wannabee. That's actually a hate filled pm... some people are the offensive posters, others are catalysts? Compriendo? Jack

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 20:25
i have other PMs that i've saved. give it a rest. you've got issues

THAT YOU"VE SAVED? FOR LATER USE???? You have issues. Seriously, don't dwell. Get rid of that Kacscinsky haircut.

Marta
09-30-2008, 20:27
Boys, boys, boys. Arguing is one thing; namecalling is something else entirely. It says nothing about the subject under discussion, but only about the person who who uses the name.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 20:27
go away.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 20:28
Boys, boys, boys. Arguing is one thing; namecalling is something else entirely. It says nothing about the subject under discussion, but only about the person who who uses the name.

i've called nobody names

MDhiker1967
09-30-2008, 20:28
Cant We All Just Get Along...

Marta
09-30-2008, 20:29
i've called nobody names

Nor was I accusing you of it. I'm sorry if you thought I was.

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 20:30
Nor was I accusing you of it. I'm sorry if you thought I was.

i'm just used to being accused :)

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 20:31
Wow me too. We finally agree.

I like shelters.

Foyt20
09-30-2008, 20:34
Ibtl :d

Gray Blazer
09-30-2008, 20:36
And I get deleted for mentioning the Goreacal? Sheeeesh, where are those mods? Out camping in a shelter?

superman
09-30-2008, 20:38
stealth camping is easy and fun. you can still socialize at the shelters and you get to sleep in peace and privacy. try it sometime.

:sun

I sort of thought this thread might be interesting to see how many reasons folks could come up with to not use the shelters. With this display of a shelter dweller it makes sleeping in peace and privacy sound that much better...yet another reason to avoid shelters. Lots of good reasons to avoid shelters were raised. I wonder how many reasons the shelter dwellers could come up with?:-?

Gray Blazer
09-30-2008, 20:38
They should call this Reasons to Avoid This Thread.

Egads
09-30-2008, 20:50
The "ignore list" works fine

rafe
09-30-2008, 21:09
I sort of thought this thread might be interesting to see how many reasons folks could come up with to not use the shelters. With this display of a shelter dweller it makes sleeping in peace and privacy sound that much better...yet another reason to avoid shelters. Lots of good reasons to avoid shelters were raised. I wonder how many reasons the shelter dwellers could come up with?:-?

This is one of the silliest posts in a very silly thread. Hey, why don't I list all the reasons my {religion, country, team} are DA BEST and you list all the reasons your {religion, country, team} are DA BEST. Whoever comes up with the longer list wins! Sheer brilliance. :rolleyes:

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 21:20
This is one of the silliest posts in a very silly thread. Hey, why don't I list all the reasons my {religion, country, team} are DA BEST and you list all the reasons your {religion, country, team} are DA BEST. Whoever comes up with the longer list wins! Sheer brilliance. :rolleyes:


You know our list is always longer Terrapin, We are the conspiracy theorists:D

Really folks, shelters aren't that bad. As we say down here near Providence...


Fuhhhggget About it


(Not a swear, indignation on the word Forget)

Blissful
09-30-2008, 21:24
Wow, WB is really revving up this past week. Two threads now. Guess it's "test the moderator" time... :)

As for shelters, great in bad rain, esp if you arrive soaked and don't want to set up a tent in the driving rain. Also good if you have a real early start planned the next day (less to pack up). Lousy most times, and I never sleep well in them.

bessiebreeze
09-30-2008, 21:26
Well, I just have to add something to this very long discussion.

All you big strong men who want to carry 35, 40, 50 pounds or more in your packs - just have at it. Be my guests. But don't belittle those of us who are not large and not particularly strong, and have to measure the ounces in our packs if we want to backpack. I weigh 140, am not young (over 65), and not strong, and the best way for me to get my pack weight down is to NOT carry a tent. I do section hikes, and seldom carry a tent.

I have stayed in many shelters, and the only really bad experience I have had in a shelter was when there was a rogue bear in the area, and I was the only one in the shelter. I really was afraid to go completely to sleep.

Most of the shelters I have stayed in (in Ga., TN., and NC) have been great. The new shelters in the Smokies are fantastic. And I have met many very interesting and very nice people in shelters.

So all you tenters, go hide out in your tents, leave the shelters for the people who appreciate and need them. Without your unnecessary coments.

Pedaling Fool
09-30-2008, 21:33
Wow, WB is really revving up this past week. Two threads now. Guess it's "test the moderator" time... :)

As for shelters, great in bad rain, esp if you arrive soaked and don't want to set up a tent in the driving rain. Also good if you have a real early start planned the next day (less to pack up). Lousy most times, and I never sleep well in them.
With respect to the Kennebec thread, just get it over with, go a head and tell us: "I told you so -- you damn boneheads".;)

superman
09-30-2008, 21:34
Well, I just have to add something to this very long discussion.

All you big strong men who want to carry 35, 40, 50 pounds or more in your packs - just have at it. Be my guests. But don't belittle those of us who are not large and not particularly strong, and have to measure the ounces in our packs if we want to backpack. I weigh 140, am not young (over 65), and not strong, and the best way for me to get my pack weight down is to NOT carry a tent. I do section hikes, and seldom carry a tent.

I have stayed in many shelters, and the only really bad experience I have had in a shelter was when there was a rogue bear in the area, and I was the only one in the shelter. I really was afraid to go completely to sleep.

Most of the shelters I have stayed in (in Ga., TN., and NC) have been great. The new shelters in the Smokies are fantastic. And I have met many very interesting and very nice people in shelters.

So all you tenters, go hide out in your tents, leave the shelters for the people who appreciate and need them. Without your unnecessary coments.

Oh bless your heart bessie. You make it hard to demonize the shelter people when you put it that way.:)

rafe
09-30-2008, 21:34
All you big strong men who want to carry 35, 40, 50 pounds or more in your packs - just have at it. Be my guests. But don't belittle those of us who are not large and not particularly strong, and have to measure the ounces in our packs if we want to backpack. I weigh 140, am not young (over 65), and not strong, and the best way for me to get my pack weight down is to NOT carry a tent. I do section hikes, and seldom carry a tent.

In general, it's not smart to hike without some sort of personal shelter, or to expect room in a shelter. There's always the possibility that a shelter will be full. I suppose if you have a bailout option -- like walking back home -- go for it. But your strategy is dangerous. Permanent shelters shouldn't be seen as obviating the need for personal shelter.

Jack Tarlin
09-30-2008, 21:36
Tell me something, Bessie:

If you choose, voluntarily, not to carry a shelter or tent in order to save pack weight, what would you do if you arrived at a Trail shelter on a horribly wet night, only to discover that it was absolutely maxed out and full?

What would you do? What would you expect to have happen?

If your answer is that you'd expect someone with a shelter or tent to either move out in the rain in order to make space for you, or perhaps to give you their tent to use for the night, guess what?

Wrong answer!

Hikers that don't carry personal shelters figuring there will always be sufficient shelter space when they arrive are playing a form of Russian Roulette, and sooner or later they're gonna be very wet and very unhappy. People are expected to carry the gear that they may need. This includes food, it includes extra clothes. It includes personal gear, it includes emergency stuff, and it absolutely includes a shelter of some sort.

People become "lightweight" hikers at their own risk. Anyone that goes out there either short or long-term and takes for granted that there will always be a space in a shelter for them, or who assumes that their lack of preparedness somehow entitles them to a guaranteed spot.....well sooner or later that person is in for a really big surprise.

Gray Blazer
09-30-2008, 21:40
I'd make room for Bessie. She's over 65 for Chrissakes. (Kinda moot for me cuz I wouldn't be in a shelter, knock on wood.

JAK
09-30-2008, 21:43
I'm 46 and 230# and my pack and clothes probably weighs less than bessiebreeze's.
I wouldn't be surprised if she can outhike me either though. LOL

bessiebreeze
09-30-2008, 21:47
My reply to the necessity of carrying a tent, because you might arrive at a shelter and there is no room at the inn is this:

I do not attempt to put in large numbers of miles each day. I manage my sections so that I will arrive at a shelter early in the afternoon, and hopefully arrive before it fills up. If you get into a shelter late in the day, and especially after dark, YOU are asking for trouble.

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 21:48
I'd make room for you Bessie, or I'd let you use my tent any day. I usually try and tarp the front of a shelter to make a little wind break, We could set up something :)

Lone Wolf
09-30-2008, 22:04
Well, I just have to add something to this very long discussion.

All you big strong men who want to carry 35, 40, 50 pounds or more in your packs - just have at it. Be my guests. But don't belittle those of us who are not large and not particularly strong, and have to measure the ounces in our packs if we want to backpack. I weigh 140, am not young (over 65), and not strong, and the best way for me to get my pack weight down is to NOT carry a tent. I do section hikes, and seldom carry a tent.

I have stayed in many shelters, and the only really bad experience I have had in a shelter was when there was a rogue bear in the area, and I was the only one in the shelter. I really was afraid to go completely to sleep.

Most of the shelters I have stayed in (in Ga., TN., and NC) have been great. The new shelters in the Smokies are fantastic. And I have met many very interesting and very nice people in shelters.

So all you tenters, go hide out in your tents, leave the shelters for the people who appreciate and need them. Without your unnecessary coments.

i guess you'll never hike western trails. how on earth will you sleep?

JAK
09-30-2008, 22:04
I think another reason to not stay at shelters is to leave room for folks like Bessie. Makes sense to me, that they are exactly who shelters are for. I still think they can be architecturally interesting though, and good focal points for meeting people. I wouldn't say I would avoid shelters but I would only stay in them in them when empty or near empty. I really enjoy sleeping in the woods alone, and I think others prefer it that way also. :)

rafe
09-30-2008, 22:07
i guess you'll never hike western trails. how on earth will you sleep?

A majority of folks on this list, I'll wager, haven't hiked the western trails. Bessie has explained her "strategy." As I understand it, she's not a long-distance hiker.

MOWGLI
09-30-2008, 22:21
If Bessie doesn't want to carry a shelter, that's her prerogative. Seems to me she has a strategy to deal with her choices. The rangers in the Smokies will often tell section hikers (when they are getting their permit over the phone) that it is NOT necessary to carry a tent, because it is required to stay in the shelters on the AT, and a permit system is in place. I'm not here to discuss the soundness of that advice. The NPS is the land manager, and they set the rules, and make decisions about what advice to dispense.

Me? I usually carry a tent.

JAK
09-30-2008, 22:25
If I don't carry much of a shelter at all and don't stay in shelters either I don't see the problem with Bessie not carrying a shelter. She's probably a tough enough old broad anyways, and has learned how to improvise over the years.

rafe
09-30-2008, 22:32
If I don't carry much of a shelter at all and don't stay in shelters either I don't see the problem with Bessie not carrying a shelter. She's probably [...] learned how to improvise over the years.

Regardless of Bessie's personal strategy, it's just plain dumb to attempt long-distance travel, on any trail, without some sort of personal shelter. It needn't weigh much. Tarps are a pound or less; a Tarptent is 1-2 pounds, and a cheap, solid one-person tent is 3 lbs.

JAK
09-30-2008, 22:34
Please try and appreciate the spirit of my posts, and stop trying to be everyones mother.

bigmac_in
09-30-2008, 22:57
Just started thinking about the title of this thread = "reasons to avoid shelters". And realized I don't avoid them - I have walked right past many of them. I never make any special effort to avoid them, even stopped in and visited a couple. I just NEVER stay and RARELY stop. Just trying to clarify my position. . .

Homer&Marje
09-30-2008, 23:10
Definitely true that carrying an alternate shelter is necessary. At minimum a tarp and a piece of rope to set up, That's about all the shelter a "shelter" will give you. ( If a little leaky)

Going out without an alternate shelter, or alternate plan is usually a bad idea.

Bob S
09-30-2008, 23:59
Who needs cable TV for entertainment?

Give me some popcorn and a computer, this thread is funny (and long.)

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 00:00
yep, goodnight

tight-wad
10-01-2008, 00:07
Bugs, especially the spiders that love to bite me. (it has happened twice... maybe because I'm so sweet???)

However.... Shelters are usually placed at water sources, have a "clean" table to set up cooking on, privies, and bear cables (sometimes).

And, for soloists, they are a place to congregate with others to swap stories, and tell tales ...

I stay AT shelters, not IN shelters.

Tinker
10-01-2008, 01:18
Deer ticks breed on white-footed mice.

White-footed mice live in shelters.

Need another reason??????

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 07:18
In his October 1921 essay, Printed in Journal of the American Institute of Architects.Benton MacKaye expressed his deep concerned with the problems of the effects of war and how people were being effected by it. He also worried about the upocoming industrial society with it's emerging technologies of petroleum, petrochemicals, and pharmaceuticals, and by the problem in which there was not enough work for everybody and an ineffective use of leisure time. MacKaye, who was a regional planner, watched as America grew more urbanized, mechanized, and separated from the natural world. He imagined a trail linked between a series of community camps which would be self-sufficient havens. The benefits of a ridgeline trail, according to MacKaye, included, "opportunities for recreation in vast areas of secluded forests, pastoral lands, and water courses;" possibilities for improving personal health, and opportunities for employment on the land.

That's what the shelters are, OBVIOUSLY, just a little different than he expected but he would be very very happy at some of the Trail Magic that goes on there. I don't know why we are even arguing about this, This was the mans vision. He'd be spinning in his grave.

superman
10-01-2008, 07:35
In his October 1921 essay, Printed in Journal of the American Institute of Architects.Benton MacKaye expressed his deep concerned with the problems of the effects of war and how people were being effected by it. He also worried about the upocoming industrial society with it's emerging technologies of petroleum, petrochemicals, and pharmaceuticals, and by the problem in which there was not enough work for everybody and an ineffective use of leisure time. MacKaye, who was a regional planner, watched as America grew more urbanized, mechanized, and separated from the natural world. He imagined a trail linked between a series of community camps which would be self-sufficient havens. The benefits of a ridgeline trail, according to MacKaye, included, "opportunities for recreation in vast areas of secluded forests, pastoral lands, and water courses;" possibilities for improving personal health, and opportunities for employment on the land.

That's what the shelters are, OBVIOUSLY, just a little different than he expected but he would be very very happy at some of the Trail Magic that goes on there. I don't know why we are even arguing about this, This was the mans vision. He'd be spinning in his grave.

No argument here...shelters suck.:)

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 07:35
Deer ticks breed on white-footed mice.

White-footed mice live in shelters.

Need another reason??????

Stay out of the woods then. Because there is mice and ticks there too. You are actually more likely to get a deer tick on you while hiking. They like to sit on the end of bushes, sticks and general brush off the side of the trail. As you walk by, they get on slow and silent. Some ticks can stay in the same spot for over a decade, with the longest being 18 years before it found a host.

Gotta love the Discovery Channel. Or was that on Animal planet? I don't know. Don't drink out of the same sepsis puddle that the mice drink out of, filter your water, and you'll be good.

So yes... I need another reason.

superman
10-01-2008, 07:42
Stay out of the woods then. Because there is mice and ticks there too. You are actually more likely to get a deer tick on you while hiking. They like to sit on the end of bushes, sticks and general brush off the side of the trail. As you walk by, they get on slow and silent. Some ticks can stay in the same spot for over a decade, with the longest being 18 years before it found a host.

Gotta love the Discovery Channel. Or was that on Animal planet? I don't know. Don't drink out of the same sepsis puddle that the mice drink out of, filter your water, and you'll be good.

So yes... I need another reason.

Reasom number 3 brazillion is that funny looking, argumentative people lurk in shelters...except for Bessie.:)

Two Speed
10-01-2008, 07:45
. . . 3 brazillion . . . ?

Must . . . resist . . . must . . . resist . . . . . . . :p

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 07:45
Reasom number 3 brazillion is that funny looking, argumentative people lurk in shelters...except for Bessie.:)


I have never had an argument in the woods, at a shelter. But yes I am funny looking, If it offends you, don't look:D

"An advisor to the president came in the Oval Office and said SIR! 3 Brazilian soldiers died today"

"The president put his head in his hands and sobbed for several minutes uncontrollably"

He looked up with watery eyes, and said "How many exactly is a Brazilian?"

Hoop Time
10-01-2008, 08:02
Despite what some have seen as mean-spirited posts in this thread, I have found it very informative and helpful. I appreciate all the advice y'all have given.

We have done a lot of tent camping, and Cookie Monster, at present, has a romantic notion that shelters are "real AT" camping because our first day hike was to Peters Mountain Shelter (I needed photos of the old Earl shelter for a story on it being removed).

Anyhow, we will probably do a shelter once for the experience, taking the precautions many have advised. A very kind PM suggested getting a bug net and just telling her it is for skeeters and spiders, without mentioning mice. But she is not a wimpy girl, and I don't think the thought of a few mice will scare her off. She won't go "eek, a mouse."

I just hope she doesn't enjoy the shelter experience too much because I would prefer tenting myself. I agree with the many who have mentioned having a little more privacy by being away from the crowd.

Of course I am not one who will worry about the weight of my pack down to the ounce. Heck, I have been known to carry six packs on overnighters (though in my old age I have learned to save weight by switching to a flask of whiskey).

Ultimately, I am leaning towards trying a hammock, which solves all those issues raised her about flat ground and rocks. That, though, is a topic for a different thread.

And H&M, quit picking fights with LW. The dude is bonafided (even if he does drink bad beer (http://www.flickr.com/photos/27983616@N03/2870295947/)). If there is anybody here that is kinder, or more generous than him, I have yet to encounter them. Don't mistake his willingness to offer a frank opinion with picking arguments. Like they say, it ain't bull**** if you can back it up.

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 08:09
I'm just tired of being undermined and called a wannabee in PM's because I haven't hiked as many miles as him. I understand he has a wealth of information and I have said many times that he has WAY more miles and experience than I do. That should not make my opinion invalid.

Some people here aren't offering reasons to stay away from shelters, but rather staying away from people. I agree. People suck. I am one of them.

Again, some people are the arguers.... some people are the catalyst.

superman
10-01-2008, 08:26
I'm just tired of being undermined and called a wannabee in PM's because I haven't hiked as many miles as him. I understand he has a wealth of information and I have said many times that he has WAY more miles and experience than I do. That should not make my opinion invalid.

Some people here aren't offering reasons to stay away from shelters, but rather staying away from people. I agree. People suck. I am one of them.

Again, some people are the arguers.... some people are the catalyst.


How does that go: if A = B and B = C then ... Did you just say you suck?

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 08:35
Yes. You see life is about perspective. In my perspective I don't suck, in many others perspective I do suck.

It is being able to admit that you are not perfect that's out of the ordinary. Don't find many people like me anymore. I'm willing to put all my faults on the table before I ever say a word about anyone else.

Most of the reasons given here to avoid a shelter had to do with mice and humans. Invasive species that apparently no on likes.

So do whatever you want. I suck. I am done.

superman
10-01-2008, 08:41
Yes. You see life is about perspective. In my perspective I don't suck, in many others perspective I do suck.

It is being able to admit that you are not perfect that's out of the ordinary. Don't find many people like me anymore. I'm willing to put all my faults on the table before I ever say a word about anyone else.

Most of the reasons given here to avoid a shelter had to do with mice and humans. Invasive species that apparently no on likes.

So do whatever you want. I suck. I am done.

LMAO, yes you are special. I just took Winter for a walk on the rail/trail so I have to get on with my day. Some days WB gives me a smile to start my day. Other days I get to LMAO. Thanks.:)

rafe
10-01-2008, 08:46
Deer ticks breed on white-footed mice.

White-footed mice live in shelters.

Need another reason??????

Logic FAIL. Avoiding shelters doesn't guarantee avoidance of ticks. I'm sure the vast majority of Lyme disease sufferers have never set foot in an AT shelter.

Large signs at AT trailheads throughout southern New England warn of the dangers of ticks. I've never seen any suggestion on any of these signs that avoiding shelters is useful in avoiding ticks.

rafe
10-01-2008, 08:54
So do whatever you want. I suck. I am done.

No, sir. You were the only person on this thread to mention Benton MacKaye, and for that, I thank you.

Lone Wolf
10-01-2008, 08:57
No, sir. You were the only person on this thread to mention Benton MacKaye, and for that, I thank you.

benton mackaye is a reason to avoid shelters?

Pedaling Fool
10-01-2008, 09:01
In his October 1921 essay, Printed in Journal of the American Institute of Architects.Benton MacKaye expressed his deep concerned with the problems of the effects of war and how people were being effected by it. He also worried about the upocoming industrial society with it's emerging technologies of petroleum, petrochemicals, and pharmaceuticals, and by the problem in which there was not enough work for everybody and an ineffective use of leisure time. MacKaye, who was a regional planner, watched as America grew more urbanized, mechanized, and separated from the natural world. He imagined a trail linked between a series of community camps which would be self-sufficient havens. The benefits of a ridgeline trail, according to MacKaye, included, "opportunities for recreation in vast areas of secluded forests, pastoral lands, and water courses;" possibilities for improving personal health, and opportunities for employment on the land.

That's what the shelters are, OBVIOUSLY, just a little different than he expected but he would be very very happy at some of the Trail Magic that goes on there. I don't know why we are even arguing about this, This was the mans vision. He'd be spinning in his grave.
Would you rather be living in a candle-lite room (without a computer) and many of the other neat stuff we have.

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:05
No, sir. You were the only person on this thread to mention Benton MacKaye, and for that, I thank you.

They might not be the self sufficient camps that he once envisioned... but I like how they worked out. Too bad he dropped outa the project cause of Skyline drive.

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:07
Would you rather be living in a candle-lite room (without a computer) and many of the other neat stuff we have.

More along the lines of self sufficing with a farm, wind turbines, solar energy, composting toilet, and gravity fed water collection with a 5 step filter.

Anyone got 150 grand I can borrow:D I would give up my computer any day for all that. Taking bids anyone.... 150 grand and I stop posting:D

Ha....maybe they'll start a fundraiser

NICKTHEGREEK
10-01-2008, 09:08
Originally Posted by superman http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/wb_style/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=704494#post704494)
. . . 3 brazillion . . . ?

Must . . . resist . . . must . . . resist . . . . . . . :p

A BRAZILLION is a hexadecimal term: DD raised to the 44th power

Mocs123
10-01-2008, 09:11
Sometimes I stay in shelters, Sometimes in my tent. It generally depends on the shelter's condition, amount of people in the shelter, and weather. I do like shelters though as a nice dry place to sit and talk, cook, and do camp chores if it is raining, and they are great easy to recognize mileage markers on the trail.

Bottom line: If it is a decent looking shelter, and it's rainy, I am more likely to stay in the shelter to avoid messing with a wet tent, otherwise I usually tent.

rafe
10-01-2008, 09:12
They might not be the self sufficient camps that he once envisioned... but I like how they worked out. Too bad he dropped outa the project cause of Skyline drive.

Obviously that part of Benton's plan didn't survive. But kudos to you for reminding us that Benton's vision involved humans interacting, and not just skulking through the woods as isolated individuals. I think Benton would have been horrified at many of the attitudes expressed on this list.

rafe
10-01-2008, 09:13
A BRAZILLION is a hexadecimal term: DD raised to the 44th power

44 decimal, or 44 hex? :-?

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:14
what president, clinton?

Can't bring up politicians names... you should know that.

Let's just say, no. I think he used to be a govna. Before he decided ruining the American Economy was a good idea.

Stop leading the parade.... you're just gonna say the thread turned to politics and ask for it to be closed.

woodsy
10-01-2008, 09:16
Can't bring up politicians names... you should know that.

Let's just say, no. I think he used to be a govna. Before he decided ruining the American Economy was a good idea.

Stop leading the parade.... you're just gonna say the thread turned to politics and ask for it to be closed.
Do you talk in your sleep too?:rolleyes::D

NICKTHEGREEK
10-01-2008, 09:17
Obviously that part of Benton's plan didn't survive. But kudos to you for reminding us that Benton's vision involved humans interacting, and not just skulking through the woods as isolated individuals. I think Benton would have been horrified at many of the attitudes expressed on this list.
If Benton was concerned with humans interacting he'd have invented the internet

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:17
It was a joke. I wanted my humor to go over your head again.

And Benton Mckaye is every reason "to" stay in a shelter.

Pedaling Fool
10-01-2008, 09:19
More along the lines of self sufficing with a farm, wind turbines, solar energy, composting toilet, and gravity fed water collection with a 5 step filter.

Anyone got 150 grand I can borrow:D I would give up my computer any day for all that. Taking bids anyone.... 150 grand and I stop posting:D

Ha....maybe they'll start a fundraiser
It takes industry for everything you want here. You want to live more "green" then just go live in a log cabin like most before the industrial revolution.

Lone Wolf
10-01-2008, 09:19
Can't bring up politicians names... you should know that.


not just names, politics period. you should know that. this thread is about "reasons to avoid shelters" your cutesy political jokes don't belong. you seem to love baiting

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:19
Do you talk in your sleep too?:rolleyes::D


Quite often. Stay in a shelter with me, I bet the overnight conversations get good.

I am a waiter in a fine dining restaurant. I make money on talking, schmoozing, and yes.... my sense of humor:D

rafe
10-01-2008, 09:21
not just names, politics period. you should know that. this thread is about "reasons to avoid shelters" your cutesy political jokes don't belong. you seem to love baiting

Pot, meet kettle.

Lone Wolf
10-01-2008, 09:21
It was a joke. I wanted my humor to go over your head again.

And Benton Mckaye is every reason "to" stay in a shelter.

you have no humor. mackaye's vision was flawed. shelters don't belong on the trail

rafe
10-01-2008, 09:22
you have no humor. mackaye's vision was flawed. shelters don't belong on the trail

MacKaye is in the history books. Somehow, I don't think you will be.

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:22
not just names, politics period. you should know that. this thread is about "reasons to avoid shelters" your cutesy political jokes don't belong. you seem to love baiting


Only if I can catch a big fish like you. You are correct, sorry I tried to bring some humor in using the only joke I know involving Brazilian as a number.

I did mention the topic in that post though....for frame of reference. So often you don't.

woodsy
10-01-2008, 09:23
Quite often. Stay in a shelter with me, I bet the overnight conversations get good.


No thanks, i use a tent;)

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:24
you have no humor. mackaye's vision was flawed. shelters don't belong on the trail


How can you possibly say that a mans vision from 1921 was flawed. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

Lone Wolf
10-01-2008, 09:25
Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

you obviousl know

woodsy
10-01-2008, 09:29
No thanks, i use a tent;)
Besides, you talk waaaaay tooooo much for my liking, i'd rather listen to the birds singing, the brook babling etc. etc. , and I thought JAK was bad:rolleyes::D

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:29
y


you forgot that one.

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 09:31
Besides, you talk waaaaay tooooo much for my liking, i'd rather listen to the birds singing, the brook babling etc. etc. , and I thought JAK was bad:rolleyes::D

I am actually very quiet in the woods, don't talk much....listen to my music.

I type 135 wpm.....so......tend to be able to get a larger point across in minimal time. But thanks for judging someone that you don't know. Always appreciated

Assume= A$$ + U + Me

Pedaling Fool
10-01-2008, 09:41
More along the lines of self sufficing with a farm, wind turbines, solar energy, composting toilet, and gravity fed water collection with a 5 step filter.

Anyone got 150 grand I can borrow:D I would give up my computer any day for all that. Taking bids anyone.... 150 grand and I stop posting:D

Ha....maybe they'll start a fundraiser


It takes industry for everything you want here. You want to live more "green" then just go live in a log cabin like most before the industrial revolution.
Well homer you going to be moving into a log cabin anytime soon? It's pure luxury compared to the typical AT shelter.

bigmac_in
10-01-2008, 09:58
I am actually very quiet in the woods, don't talk much....listen to my music.

I type 135 wpm.....so......tend to be able to get a larger point across in minimal time. But thanks for judging someone that you don't know. Always appreciated

Assume= A$$ + U + Me

WOW, just WOW.

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 10:02
Well homer you going to be moving into a log cabin anytime soon? It's pure luxury compared to the typical AT shelter.

I don't want to live "more green". I want less bills. I have no problems with industry and technology.... I just hate bills. Not that I can't pay them, I live well within my means, I just forget.

I dream of a simpler life, not with less technology, not with less wealth, security, or equity. Just less to think about and more time for exploring the great out doors.

You don't have to use them, just appreciate that it was part of the vision of the trail and they are there for those who want them, not those who don't. There is plenty of woods out there, don't bump noses Appreciate those AT shelters, Cause one day you might be on a trail...needing a shelter for some reason or another....get there.... and find this.

Lone Wolf
10-01-2008, 10:23
You don't have to use them, just appreciate that it was part of the vision of the trail and they are there for those who want them, not those who don't. There is plenty of woods out there, don't bump noses Appreciate those AT shelters, Cause one day you might be on a trail...needing a shelter for some reason or another....get there.... and find this.

would be nice if they were all like that

Pedaling Fool
10-01-2008, 10:33
In his October 1921 essay, Printed in Journal of the American Institute of Architects.Benton MacKaye expressed his deep concerned with the problems of the effects of war and how people were being effected by it. He also worried about the upocoming industrial society with it's emerging technologies of petroleum, petrochemicals, and pharmaceuticals, and by the problem in which there was not enough work for everybody and an ineffective use of leisure time. MacKaye, who was a regional planner, watched as America grew more urbanized, mechanized, and separated from the natural world. He imagined a trail linked between a series of community camps which would be self-sufficient havens. The benefits of a ridgeline trail, according to MacKaye, included, "opportunities for recreation in vast areas of secluded forests, pastoral lands, and water courses;" possibilities for improving personal health, and opportunities for employment on the land.

That's what the shelters are, OBVIOUSLY, just a little different than he expected but he would be very very happy at some of the Trail Magic that goes on there. I don't know why we are even arguing about this, This was the mans vision. He'd be spinning in his grave.


I don't want to live "more green". I want less bills. I have no problems with industry and technology.... I just hate bills. Not that I can't pay them, I live well within my means, I just forget.

I dream of a simpler life, not with less technology, not with less wealth, security, or equity. Just less to think about and more time for exploring the great out doors.

You don't have to use them, just appreciate that it was part of the vision of the trail and they are there for those who want them, not those who don't. There is plenty of woods out there, don't bump noses Appreciate those AT shelters, Cause one day you might be on a trail...needing a shelter for some reason or another....get there.... and find this.
So the point of you posting this 1921 essay is because you hate your bills, but everything else is just fine......OK:rolleyes:

taildragger
10-01-2008, 10:59
How can you possibly say that a mans vision from 1921 was flawed. Ignorance is bliss isn't it?

Its pretty simple, just try saying it out loud, come on, I bet you can.

And ***u, I can say that this mans vision was flawed, I'm fairly certain that most people wouldn't like to stay at shelters.

If you wanna dig people out of the grave to bring them into the discussion, then fine, but at least be able to back up their lives instead of inserting your opinions about how this man would be happy about the trail magic and socialization that goes on in the shelters (cause everyone loves pot, beer, sex, masturbation, flatulence, jack@sses, etc. cause you find all of that, and a high density rodent population at shelters.

:welcome

Roots
10-01-2008, 11:10
Other than the fact that they plain out suck, they are disgustingly nasty. Mice crap everywhere is not my thing.

Lone Wolf
10-01-2008, 11:14
Other than the fact that they plain out suck, they are disgustingly nasty. Mice crap everywhere is not my thing.

and the genius shelter designers always put the fire pit about 10 feet in front of the shelter. it's so nice to breath smoke from the burning garbage all night long

Roots
10-01-2008, 11:16
and the genius shelter designers always put the fire pit about 10 feet in front of the shelter. it's so nice to breath smoke from the burning garbage all night long
And watch the mice come out to play while the stoves are going about 8 ft from everyone sleeping bag.

Pedaling Fool
10-01-2008, 11:20
...Mice crap everywhere is not my thing.
You mean this stuff...:D http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=18147&c=member&orderby=views&direction=DESC&imageuser=6936&cutoffdate=-1

Lone Wolf
10-01-2008, 11:20
and privies. they're beyond nasty

jhick
10-01-2008, 11:26
oh come on.... who could pass by one of those and a nice hot August day???

taildragger
10-01-2008, 11:32
I think the potential on walking in on hot sweaty hiker sex is enough to not stay in a shelter.

That and the rat fecal material is potentially bad for your health.

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 11:35
Shelters and privies are good for one thing - keeps the Fear-mongering And Religious Talking folks in one place.

Egads
10-01-2008, 12:00
I type 135 wpm.....so......tend to be able to get a larger point across in minimal time.

Maybe typing slower might be a good thing.:-?

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 12:06
Maybe typing slower might be a good thing.:-?

or somewhere else. :D

NICKTHEGREEK
10-01-2008, 15:35
44 decimal, or 44 hex? :-?
Either way 44-DD is a real handfull to grasp and a mouthfull to say

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 16:04
Don't worry. You'll never have to read my post in a shelter journal. If you don't stay to read it.

If so many people dislike shelters.... then why are they too crowded? Seems somehow, incorrect. Poll time? Maybe.

Pedaling Fool
10-01-2008, 16:27
...If so many people dislike shelters.... then why are they too crowded? Seems somehow, incorrect. Poll time? Maybe.
There's a lot of people that use the shelter/hike the AT(non thru-hikers), that never have heard of Whiteblaze.

max patch
10-01-2008, 16:29
There's a lot of people that use the shelter/hike the AT(non thru-hikers), that never have heard of Whiteblaze.

The silent majority.

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 16:31
So we will base the votes on demographics and electoral numbers. So it can be flawed.

TD55
10-01-2008, 17:35
Not fair to bring Benton and the folks who built the AT for what shelters and shelter experience has turned into. Up to the early and maybe mid 80's they were way different than they are today. People took care of them and there was a whole lot more respect for each other back then. A crowd was a cause for celebration. You knew to stay away from them on weekends, and the ones that were close to roads. Nobody would dare burn garbage in the fire pit all night, spill food scraps, piss five feet from the shelter, etc.

RITBlake
10-01-2008, 17:46
I think the only real regret of my thru hike was that I wish I hadn't spent so many nights in the shelters.

fehchet
10-01-2008, 18:20
You know, I like shelters. I like stopping at a shelter in the middle of the day and having my lunch. Maybe just passing by at some odd hour. That's fun. And then taking a bit of time to read what some one has written; it is all good. A shelter on the AT is a station in the woods to use as you wish.

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 18:40
You know, I like shelters. I like stopping at a shelter in the middle of the day and having my lunch. Maybe just passing by at some odd hour. That's fun. And then taking a bit of time to read what some one has written; it is all good. A shelter on the AT is a station in the woods to use as you wish.

Well put. Not saying for positive, but I bet a lot of people in this thread complaining about shelters, have used them for that purpose many a time. Even just to kick back for lunch to get out of a rainstorm. Picnic table is like a recliner in the woods. No need to set up a tarp to make a pb&j

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 19:08
I think the only real regret of my thru hike was that I wish I hadn't spent so many nights in the shelters.

you were/are a young man, you have time to grow out of bad habits, all is forgiven... like being a sox fan in yankee territory, you can grow out of this too. ;)

Heater
10-01-2008, 19:19
I type 135 wpm.....so......tend to be able to get a larger point across in minimal time. But thanks for judging someone that you don't know. Always appreciated

Great.

Now, If you could just learn to think at 135 WPM, all will be good. :D

twisted
10-01-2008, 19:26
this time of year shelters are a good stop not many people or animals in them

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 19:35
Great.

Now, If you could just learn to think at 135 WPM, all will be good. :D

you are associating thinking with intelligence and experience, different animals.

MOWGLI
10-01-2008, 19:49
Great.

Now, If you could just learn to think at 135 WPM, all will be good. :D

That's pretty funny. :banana

Ronnie Motrose
10-01-2008, 20:25
Shelters and privies are good for one thing - keeps the Fear-mongering And Religious Talking folks in one place.

Well as far as fear mongering, more bears (food) and snakes (because of the mice) hang around shelters. I do sleep in them on occassion, but usually tent near them, I get tired of talking to myself all day and need a break to talk to civilized people instead of talking in tongues to the demons. Yes talking in tongues will clear a shelter out quickly if you and you imaginary friends need a place to stay.

As far as the religious stuff, I have told a few people to keep religion and poltics out of conversations with them, if they start up. I say something like, "Thats great you believe in something but 'd rather not discuss it." Most times end of story.

Egads
10-01-2008, 20:28
I love shelters

Now that's a surprise

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 20:32
Well as far as fear mongering, more bears (food) and snakes (because of the mice) hang around shelters. I do sleep in them on occassion, but usually tent near them, I get tired of talking to myself all day and need a break to talk to civilized people instead of talking in tongues to the demons. Yes talking in tongues will clear a shelter out quickly if you and you imaginary friends need a place to stay.

Tenting near a shelter does have its benefits, as long as a large group isn't swarming all over the place. The only demon that I talk to regularly happens to be my hiking partner, but that's okay since he is my brother. :) Don't know that I would hike alone, that is a foreign thought to me.

rafe
10-01-2008, 20:34
Don't know that I would hike alone, that is a foreign thought to me.

Watsa matter, big guy? Woods a spooky place? You're funny.

Ronnie Motrose
10-01-2008, 20:37
Tenting near a shelter does have its benefits, as long as a large group isn't swarming all over the place. The only demon that I talk to regularly happens to be my hiking partner, but that's okay since he is my brother. :) Don't know that I would hike alone, that is a foreign thought to me.

LOL ..... At least you have your brother to share whiskey with.

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 20:47
LOL ..... At least you have your brother to share whiskey with.

whiskey, stogies, and wisecracks. we have a blast. hiking has brought us closer and we really have a great time.

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 20:54
Watsa matter, big guy? Woods a spooky place? You're funny.

scared? what is there to be scared about? ain't scared of no woods. ain't scared of no animals found on the east coast. in fact, i rarely use a flashlight at night or worry about sounds i hear in the middle of the night. i ain't scared of no people out in the woods. and i ain't scared of being alone either. i simply like to share my hiking, whether it's my brother or friends or the scouts. in fact, i have more friends that want me to take them hiking than i have time. how about you... big guy. :rolleyes:

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 21:14
scared? what is there to be scared about? ain't scared of no woods. ain't scared of no animals found on the east coast. in fact, i rarely use a flashlight at night or worry about sounds i hear in the middle of the night. i ain't scared of no people out in the woods. and i ain't scared of being alone either. i simply like to share my hiking, whether it's my brother or friends or the scouts. in fact, i have more friends that want me to take them hiking than i have time. how about you... big guy. :rolleyes:


Except mice... right? And creatures of habit.

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 21:21
Except mice... right? And creatures of habit.

i ain't scared of mice, but i don't sleep with them, or any other creatures, when there are much better options. :rolleyes:

STEVEM
10-01-2008, 21:23
scared? what is there to be scared about? ain't scared of no woods. ain't scared of no animals found on the east coast. in fact, i rarely use a flashlight at night or worry about sounds i hear in the middle of the night. i ain't scared of no people out in the woods. and i ain't scared of being alone either. i simply like to share my hiking, whether it's my brother or friends or the scouts. in fact, i have more friends that want me to take them hiking than i have time. how about you... big guy. :rolleyes:

I'm scared of ticks. I really hate the little blood sucking S.O.B.'s

Gray Blazer
10-01-2008, 21:23
Now that's a surprise

Where did you find that LW quote "I love shelters"? I don't believe it.

I do know there's a pic taken by Rock of LW sitting in Icewater Shelter and actually smiling (I'd be smiling too if I was sitting on the AT in the Smokies).

Search in the galleries under Lone Wolf Icewater.

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 21:26
I'm scared of ticks. I really hate the little blood sucking S.O.B.'s

simple solution for that or any other fears... stay home

Homer&Marje
10-01-2008, 21:30
Where did you find that LW quote "I love shelters"? I don't believe it.

I do know there's a pic taken by Rock of LW sitting in Icewater Shelter and actually smiling (I'd be smiling too if I was sitting on the AT in the Smokies).

Search in the galleries under Lone Wolf Icewater.


Good call.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=18315&original=1&c=searchresults&searchid=17905

Hypocrisy gets you no where in an argument silly:D

Ronnie Motrose
10-01-2008, 21:35
whiskey, stogies, and wisecracks. we have a blast. hiking has brought us closer and we really have a great time.

One day I hope to take my daughter hiking, I'm a absentee father (by choice, mommy issues) I want to get her on the trail by atleast 4 for an overnight. I got a feeling that in years she will become my best hiking partner. She looks like her mom and acts all about me. So the question is ............... when im 60 hiking with my 15 year old daugther, will the people on the trail think im fugly? Damn the trail police people, you don't just say the guy looks wierd, is a nutjob etc.., I'm warning the police, theres alot of us weird harmless people out there.

If you see a crime report it, or heard someone talk of a crime./ Other wise stay the frick out of it. Weird people have a right to hike to.

"Based on a hiker in 2005 whom hikers called the police on because he hiked with his 13 year old daughter during school time and thought he was weird"

rafe
10-01-2008, 21:44
how about you... big guy. :rolleyes:

I've done a couple of AT sections, maybe 70 miles total, with my nephew. I did the southernmost 650 miles traveling with the nobo thrus in 1990, but without a partner. So, basically I've walked about 2/3 of the trail 'alone.' For my 2007 section (just under 600 miles) there was no possibility of finding a partner. The 2007 hike was my most satisfying and 'successful' long-distance hike. But an entirely different experience (much less of a social event) than traveling with the thrus in 1990.

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 21:52
I've done a couple of AT sections, maybe 70 miles total, with my nephew. I did the southernmost 650 miles traveling with the nobo thrus in 1990, but without a partner. So, basically I've walked about 2/3 of the trail 'alone.' For my 2007 section (just under 600 miles) there was no possibility of finding a partner. The 2007 hike was my most satisfying and 'successful' long-distance hike. But an entirely different experience (much less of a social event) than traveling with the thrus in 1990.

sounds like you hiked your own hike. congrats.

Cool AT Breeze
10-01-2008, 22:16
One day I hope to take my daughter hiking, I'm a absentee father (by choice, mommy issues) I want to get her on the trail by atleast 4 for an overnight. I got a feeling that in years she will become my best hiking partner. She looks like her mom and acts all about me. So the question is ............... when im 60 hiking with my 15 year old daugther, will the people on the trail think im fugly? Damn the trail police people, you don't just say the guy looks wierd, is a nutjob etc.., I'm warning the police, theres alot of us weird harmless people out there.

If you see a crime report it, or heard someone talk of a crime./ Other wise stay the frick out of it. Weird people have a right to hike to.

"Based on a hiker in 2005 whom hikers called the police on because he hiked with his 13 year old daughter during school time and thought he was weird"
The same thing happend in Damascus this year.

ed bell
10-01-2008, 22:57
Don't worry. You'll never have to read my post in a shelter journal. If you don't stay to read it.

If so many people dislike shelters.... then why are they too crowded? Seems somehow, incorrect. Poll time? Maybe.Obviously, "so many people" like shelters. That's fine. Just because this thread exists does not lead me to believe the opposite is true. How did you come to that conclusion? Having said that, I don't like to see shelters when I backpack and I usually don't. The only time I deal with them is in the Smokys, when I have to. And I still have a good time. I'm sure that LW will say the same IRT the Icewater photo. Don't worry about starting a poll, it won't give any more insight than this thread has.

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 23:09
Don't worry about starting a poll, it won't give any more insight than this thread has.

CORRECT, but he started one shortly after his post, around 4pm today.

Ronnie Motrose
10-01-2008, 23:23
Guess where im going this weekend? The Cook County Forest Preserve, back of Beck Lake about a 1/2 mile hike, i will get to those who will freeze, take my best to keep them warm, its a walk from my home, all i want is them to sleep warm tonight.

RITBlake
10-01-2008, 23:23
you were/are a young man, you have time to grow out of bad habits, all is forgiven... like being a sox fan in yankee territory, you can grow out of this too. ;)

Ok! Good! In weekend/vacation trips since my thru hike I've tented in my Seedhouse SL 1. I find the quality and quantity of sleep in a night much better then I used to get in a shelter. A lot of that has to do w/ not thinking about bugs and mice crawling around me as I sleep.

On my thru I carried a hennesey hammock, and althought it's a great product, I've found it's not for me. I always slept too cold in it and never fully adjusted.

As far as being a soxo fan in yankee territory it's a weird experience! Watching the playoffs now.

Ronnie Motrose
10-01-2008, 23:27
Puff up some damn leaves

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 23:31
Puff up some damn leaves

that works. pine needles are best.

ed bell
10-01-2008, 23:33
CORRECT, but he started one shortly after his post, around 4pm today.Missed it TM. Thanks for the heads up.

rafe
10-01-2008, 23:34
Obviously, "so many people" like shelters. That's fine. Just because this thread exists does not lead me to believe the opposite is true.

Eh? You lost me somewhere, Ed. If the opposite isn't true, then Homer's assertion is correct. ;) I suspect that's not what you meant to say.


Don't worry about starting a poll, it won't give any more insight than this thread has.Oddly, the poll (71 votes so far) is far less unanimous than I might have guessed, from the tone of the posts on this thread or from the oft-heard "shelters suck" mantra.

Tin Man
10-01-2008, 23:40
Eh? You lost me somewhere, Ed. If the opposite isn't true, then Homer's assertion is correct. ;) I suspect that's not what you meant to say.

Oddly, the poll (71 votes so far) is far less unanimous than I might have guessed, from the tone of the posts on this thread or from the oft-heard "shelters suck" mantra.

i read 14% prefer shelters

rafe
10-01-2008, 23:49
i read 14% prefer shelters

46% say "maybe; it depends on the mood." That's a far cry from "shelters suck." In fact, it describes my own attitude pretty well.

ed bell
10-02-2008, 00:04
Eh? You lost me somewhere, Ed. If the opposite isn't true, then Homer's assertion is correct. ;) I suspect that's not what you meant to say.I can see where my post is confusing.;) I am saying that yes, "so many people" do like shelters. Homer is correct. This thread does not lead me to believe that most do not like shelters. This thread leads me to empathize with the folks I agree with.

Ronnie Motrose
10-02-2008, 00:28
Stay home and get stoned if you need shelter, otherwise get a tarp and bag and take a walk. As i see your like me and just want one persone to love you ............... but hey we are loners. The Think I like about being a 45 year old loner ........... is those suprised wake ups, ...............

Tin Man
10-02-2008, 00:48
well, i think this is done. any mod wants to close it, be my guest. thanks to all who shared :)

Heater
10-02-2008, 01:04
Stay home and get stoned if you need shelter, otherwise get a tarp and bag and take a walk. As i see your like me and just want one persone to love you ............... but hey we are loners. The Think I like about being a 45 year old loner ........... is those suprised wake ups, ...............

Ronnie, have you been drinking again? I love you, maaaaaaan... but I hate to see you thisaway.

:D

Gray Blazer
10-02-2008, 07:17
Good call.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=18315&original=1&c=searchresults&searchid=17905

Hypocrisy gets you no where in an argument silly:D

Wasn't trying to do a gotcha. The hypocrisy of this thread is not what's illing me.

Homer&Marje
10-02-2008, 07:18
CORRECT, but he started one shortly after his post, around 4pm today.

And you keep responding too it. Probably voted too.

superman
10-02-2008, 07:19
A thread that is both informative and entertaining is a successful thread, but it's time to put it down. :)

Homer&Marje
10-02-2008, 07:22
A thread that is both informative and entertaining is a successful thread, but it's time to put it down. :)


Agreed. It has just turned into a pissing contest. That is, who can pee farther from a shelter:D Me, 30-40' is good? Anyone go farther:rolleyes:

Egads
10-02-2008, 07:23
Where did you find that LW quote "I love shelters"? I don't believe it.

What, you don't believe your own eyes?:eek:

Homer&Marje
10-02-2008, 07:34
You know what I find amusing. LW clearly loves shelters... said it himself right? And why did LW start that thread about dogs not staying in shelters, a very adamant argument I might add, in which I agreed.....AND got kicked off Trailplace for that argument?

What turned you into a shelter hater? Serious question.

Newb
10-02-2008, 07:46
I think shelters are good to have on the trail in the case that someone truely NEEDS to have one. Me, I'll stick to tenting it :)

Shelters provide a good refuge from intense weather.
Shelters provide good gathering places for hikers (concentrating the impact).
The privvies, where they exist, keep the poop off the trail.
If people use the shelter, there's more tent-sites for me.

Blue Jay
10-02-2008, 08:39
A thread that is both informative and entertaining is a successful thread, but it's time to put it down. :)

I'm surprised the Terminators let it go on this long. Usually they're closed before I get to them.:eek:

Gray Blazer
10-02-2008, 08:59
You know what I find amusing. LW clearly loves shelters... said it himself right?


People can change other's quotes. I couldn't find where he said that and besides, not everyone has a sense of humor like LW's. He may have been pulling our leg (or as they say in spanish, drinking our hair).

rafe
10-02-2008, 09:12
Like a lot of hikers, LW has been known to hang out at shelters and tent in their vicinity. But IIRC, he won't sleep in a shelter. When the shelter's full or the scene is too rowdy, tenting nearby is often the best option.

Lone Wolf
10-02-2008, 09:15
Like a lot of hikers, LW has been known to hang out at shelters and tent in their vicinity. But IIRC, he won't sleep in a shelter.

this is correct

Lone Wolf
10-02-2008, 09:19
People can change other's quotes. I couldn't find where he said that and besides, not everyone has a sense of humor like LW's. He may have been pulling our leg (or as they say in spanish, drinking our hair).

just newbie ignorance

Homer&Marje
10-02-2008, 09:27
I full well knew the quote was either changed or if it was real, probably said in jest like most comments.

I just liked the pretty picture, and thought it brought light to the thread topic. Reasons to avoid Shelters.

superman
10-02-2008, 09:34
I don't care that the shelters have turned into phone booths. The funny looking cell phone shelter people can just annoy each other. Since the AT is turning into the electronic trail, I will interpret what the hiker gods intended the shelters to be. That is communication centers. They will be running electric to each one and they'll all have internet. Since the installation of this stuff requires a bunch of tech stuff they will be paving the entire trail so technicians can install and maintain the communication systems. I hope it doesn't change your hike.:)

Lone Wolf
10-02-2008, 09:40
I don't care that the shelters have turned into phone booths. The funny looking cell phone shelter people can just annoy each other. Since the AT is turning into the electronic trail, I will interpret what the hiker gods intended the shelters to be. That is communication centers. They will be running electric to each one and they'll all have internet. Since the installation of this stuff requires a bunch of tech stuff they will be paving the entire trail so technicians can install and maintain the communication systems. I hope it doesn't change your hike.:)


was hanging out at hawk mtn. shelter this past spring. there were 30+ hikers there. well over half of them had cell phones out looking for signals and/or talking. pretty comical. they're here to stay

rafe
10-02-2008, 09:43
IMO, the poll shows that most hikers have a reasonable, pragmatic approach to using shelters. "Maybe" is the best answer, IMO. Take it or leave it. Carry your own shelter, decide when you get there. There have been several nights when I started in a shelter and moved to my tent in the middle of the night.

Homer&Marje
10-02-2008, 09:44
You can add a few more miles to your hike every day walking around in circles looking for a signal though:rolleyes:

I usually only take mine out to look at the time. Should really carry a watch, but I can't stand em.

rafe
10-02-2008, 09:47
was hanging out at hawk mtn. shelter this past spring. there were 30+ hikers there. well over half of them had cell phones out looking for signals and/or talking. pretty comical. they're here to stay

Similar scene in the "hiker corral" at the music festival at Rutland. At any given moment, you could see half a dozen hikers chatting on cell phones.

I made heavy use of my cell phone on last year's hike, but most of the time I was calling home, from my campsite or from an empty shelter.

superman
10-02-2008, 09:49
was hanging out at hawk mtn. shelter this past spring. there were 30+ hikers there. well over half of them had cell phones out looking for signals and/or talking. pretty comical. they're here to stay

Yup, but if the UFOs shoot down those cell phone satellites those folks won't know whether to poo or go blind. Seems to me that it's a bit obsessive when Mary Jane rotten couch has to keep tabs on every movement.

Lone Wolf
10-02-2008, 09:49
i don't own a cell. never will

Homer&Marje
10-02-2008, 10:03
i don't own a cell. never will

We know, you fear technology.

Chant with me now... UNA UNA UNA UNA... no? Ok.

bloodmountainman
10-02-2008, 10:14
i don't own a cell. never will

LW ... we have found common ground! I've lived too long without a cell phone.... see no good reason to change now. Got along fine without 'em!
Biggest money suck ever invented!

fehchet
10-02-2008, 10:38
Imagine, WiFi at all the shelters. The trail will be taken over by writers.

Two Speed
10-02-2008, 10:45
Mmmm. lotsa wannabe's, maybe.

NICKTHEGREEK
10-02-2008, 11:28
Yup, but if the UFOs shoot down those cell phone satellites those folks won't know whether to poo or go blind. Seems to me that it's a bit obsessive when Mary Jane rotten couch has to keep tabs on every movement.
Cell doesn't go to satellite till after it gets to the cell tower if then at all. And please leave my ex out of this.:D