View Full Version : Warren Doyle's 'Book' now available on-line
warren doyle
03-17-2004, 21:38
Just wanted to let AT dreamers that my 'book' on thru-hiking the AT is now available at
www.warrendoyle.com
It is in its 22nd edition (the longest continuously published thru-hiking 'guide').
It is the lightest guide physically and may be the heaviest guide psychologically.
It has been tested and proven 'on the trail' for the last 30 years.
Enjoy it and happy trails to all!
11) If your goal is to walk the ENTIRE Appalachian Trail, then do it. People who take shortcuts, i.e., blue blazes, or hitchhike do so because it usually is shorter, quicker, and/or easier. So where is the challenge in that? We have enough 'shortcuts' in the real world (i.e., ENRON, personal bankruptcies).
You have given everyone something to think about. You might consider adding this to your book:
11.5) If you value SELF RELIANCE, then let go of your fears. People who take shortcuts, i.e., have experts plan thier meals, determine their daily milage, choose thier hiking partners, find thier camping spots based on van access rather than beauty, and (horrror of horrors) carry thier gear each and every day, may well do so because it seems shorter, quicker and/or easier. So where is the self-reliance in that? We have enough hand-holding in the real world (i.e. TNT Vacations, Bush Gardens)
Then again, I might not. To do so would be kind-of insulting to those who had really wonderful experiences hiking in a way that was right for them.
Nah, I'd include it. Being sef-reliant is AT LEAST as important for many (MOST) people's AT experience as most of the other stuff in Warren's treatise. Like so many others, I can't shut up about some of this stuff.
Rick B :datz
Question for Warren: On your AT van-supported trips, if one is sick and wants to keep up with the group, what happens?
Blue Jay
03-18-2004, 13:46
Warren, what did I tell you about leading with your chin, you clearly must love it when these yahoos jump on you.
Rick, since you are giving literary advice to a puplished author clearly you must have an anthology yourself. Is it out of print? Amazon does not have one under your name.
You have given everyone something to think about. You might consider adding this to your book:
11.5) If you value SELF RELIANCE, then let go of your fears. People who take shortcuts, i.e., have experts plan thier meals, determine their daily milage, choose thier hiking partners, find thier camping spots based on van access rather than beauty, and (horrror of horrors) carry thier gear each and every day, may well do so because it seems shorter, quicker and/or easier. So where is the self-reliance in that? We have enough hand-holding in the real world (i.e. TNT Vacations, Bush Gardens)
Rick. Walking the Appalachian Trail is a wonderful experience, regardless of how one does it. Some are not as self reliant as you and me -- or have less time, or need the discipline of a group. Let's all just do our walking in whatever ways that seem best.
The few times I've met Warren's groups the members have struck me as having had a wonderful time. I once even participated in a reunion of one of the guided hikes. (I wasn't an alumni. I just brought the lobsters.) Everyone seemed happy reflecting on shared memories.
It was something like the atmosphere of thru hikers meeting at the biennial ATC conferences, at the Gathering or at a RUCK.
Most of my walks are by myself. Some are with a group. A few are "guided" by someone who strikes me as having something extra to offer.
Weary
Wow, what a coincidence, I just finished my "paper" on hiking SOME of the Appalachian Trail. For your satirical pleasure, here it is:
Walking SOME of The Appalachian Trail:
By: Tim "Chomp" Scott (1st edition-March 2004)
This 'page' is based on my opinions on what helps a person enjoy their time on the Appalachian Trail, whether they stop by the wayside or not (mmm... Blackberry Shakes..). These ranting are based on four principals:
1. Walking the ENTIRE Trail in a foolish endeavor;
2. That many people when they start at Springer or Katahdin hope to complete the ENTIRE Trail in one hiking season;
3. That those who don't aim to hike the ENTIRE Trail have a more stress-free, enjoyable journey.
4. That southbounders are completely insane for wanting to finish the trail on a tiny, wooden summit rather than on Katahdin, the best mountain on the east coast.
My Dogma
My dogma is based on my one (1) hike along MOST of the Trail and on my delivering trail magic and support to over one hundred (100) other hikers on the trail.
1) Walking the Appalachian Trail IS a recreation, as no goods or services are produced from this effort. While the activity is not easy, it is clearly not a job. Well, unless someone pays you to hike the trail, that is.
2) Walking the Appalachian Trail can be as simple as 'going on a hike'. It is a challenging task for sure, but with the right attitude it can be an educational and fulfilling activity. Are you willing to unburden your load and enjoy your trip?
3) Don't taunt the Trail, or a mountain. Taunting the trail will always result in a good butt kicking climb, or never-ending PUDS or a torrential downpour. Be respectful of the Trail.
4) Don't expect the Trail to respect or be sensitive to your domestic comfort level and desire to control your environment - That is what Trail Towns are for! In an effort to avoid discomfort, make sure that you frequent these cozy hamlets that dot the trail and take a break. Enjoy a beverage, indulge in Ben and Jerry’s, and by all means, enjoy a BIG BREAKFAST! You can't make a mountain any less steep, a hot day any cooler, or a cold morning any warmer. But you can hitch into town and take a break from the harshness of the Trail.
5) Time and space are immutable unless your last name is Einstein or Hawkings. Don't waste any of your energy pouring over the profile or trying not to get wet. Just get out there and hike. Or don't. Look to yourself for the answer, and be happy with your decision.
6) The Trail knows neither you nor the horse that you rode in on. Don't expect any favors from the Trail, and don't EXPECT any favors from Trail Angels. However, you will certainly experience Trail Magic at some point on your journey, as well as Trail Angels willing to make your trip easier. The Trail is inherently hard, so accept this help, and be thankful. Everything has to be earned, unless its a cooler of soda sitting by the road on a hot summer day. Never take Magic for granted, and never direct scorn at an empty cooler.
7) Reduce your material wants - the less you carry, the happier you will be.
8) "The more I know, the more I know that I don't know anything." Yes, one can wear one t-shirt the entire journey (or several journeys if your name is Baltimore Jack). You don't have to take any showers, but then again you don't have to have any friends on the Trail. You can survive on one hot meal a day, but you can THRIVE on one pint of ice cream. You don't need a roof and four walls around you at night, but it sure is nice if its raining. You don't need to carry a pint of Guinness out of town, but somehow it tastes even better drinking it from a Nalgine in a shelter than in a glass at a bar.
9) It is far better, and less painful, to take the old AT down Killington and directly to the Inn at Long Trail than to follow the new tread way halfway off the ridge and a mile away from Guinness Bliss.
10) Leave your fat at home, the less weight you have to lug up the mountains, the easier of a hike you will have. And leave as much other stuff at home as you possibly can. After all, the heavier your pack is, the heavier your pack is. Feel free to feel free. Relive your childhood, but only if you had a good childhood. Otherwise, you would be reliving a nightmare and that just wouldn't be good. Go ahead and blame your discomfort or depression on the Trail and the weather. After all, it’s not YOUR fault. And its not like the Trail is going to get angry at you for blaming it. If something goes wrong, just say:
"I ran out of gas. I had a flat tire. I didn't have enough money for cab fare. My tux didn't come back from the cleaners. An old friend came in from out of town. Someone stole my car. There was an earthquake! A terrible flood! Locusts! It wasn't my fault, I swear to god!"
11) If your goal is to walk the ENTIRE Appalachian Trail, then good luck to you. Not all people who take shortcuts do so because it is shorter, quicker, and/or easier. Sometimes it makes sense to hike a different trail. The old AT near Killington and into Gorham are two prime examples. The only reason to hike the Rattle River Trail is because you are White Blind. The Shelbourne-Moriah Trail is a MUCH nicer trail (Mt. Suprise, anyone?), and it leads directly into downtown Gorham. And if you want to take a shortcut, go ahead. We all take shortcuts in the real world, why not on the trail?
12) Expect the best but be prepared for the worst. If you are not enjoying your journey, why would you continue? If you wanted to be miserable, you would have just stayed at work. Do what you need to do to enjoy your trip, and to hell with what anyone else has to say. Just be honest about your adventure. It will make things less stressful for you and your honesty will earn the respect from those on a different kind of journey. And if it doesn't, they are pompous jerks not worthy of your time.
Weather? There will be more bad weather days than good weather days. Try to spend as many bad weather days as possible in town. And, if at all possible, don't hike over Max Patch or through Mahoosuc Notch in bad weather.
There are two (2) surfaces for walking:
1. This Way: Going this way, typically along the AT
2. That Way: Going that way, typically not along the AT
Some thoughts to have in your head:
Upon reaching the top of a mountain: "Is this the summit? Am I sure that this is REALLY the summit?"
Upon reaching your campsite: "Where is the water source?"
Upon reaching town: "Where can I get a pint of ice cream and a beer?"
Upon entering a restaurant: "Do you have an All You Can Eat buffet?"
Upon starting your hike: "I'm going to hike in a manner that will make me happy."
After your first week on the Trail: "The rain has got to stop eventually!"
During your sixth straight day of rain: "I don't know how many more days in town that I can afford."
During your third week of drought: "How can it not have rained in 21 days, but my clothing STILL doesn't dry overnight?!?!"
During the second straight week of mosquitoes and/or black flies: "Boy and I glad that I am carrying more than just a tarp."
And when you are exhausted, bored, lonely, dehydrated, hungry, hyperventilated, or have the runs: "Somewhere, there is someone sitting in a cubicle farm who would gladly switch places with me."
13) However, please remember that we are all different. Hike your own hike, do what makes you happy and fulfilled. Listen finally to yourself, and respect others by being honest about your decisions. "One man's justice is another's injustice; one man's beauty another's ugliness; one man's wisdom another's folly."
... what is/are PUDS?
Pointless Ups and DownS
Blue Jay
03-18-2004, 15:16
Bravo, chomp. Truer words were never written. I especially like the cubicle farm part because that is exactly where I'm currently sitting. I long to be "exhasted, lonely, dehydrated, hungry, and hyperventilated with the runs" AGAIN (and soon will be).
Edit: Tried to clarify what I was attempting to communicate in my prior post, for the benefit of those who don't think like me, but thought better of it. I don't have a great need to be understood.
I am sure Warren has had a positive impact on far more people than most, and certainly more than I have. That alone commands my respect.
That he has walked 26,000 miles, or writes stuff that I might think off the mark, is far less important.
Rick B
Man, i know how i would rather give my money to !
Chomp, i'll pay you to carry my beer all along the PCT.
warren doyle
03-22-2004, 21:11
Rick Boudrie #2 - 11.5) I don't know what you are implying. However; if you are referring to the Appalachian Trail Circle Expeditions (rather than the book) - 1) I do not plan expedition members' meals (lucky for them!);
2) I do not choose their hiking partners;
3)We only have to be together 12 times during the 127-day journey;
4) Members do not have to camp by the road.
The circle expedition's mission is not centered around self-reliance as most people's thru-hikes are. The expedition stresses commitment to helping everyone in the group finish. There is space enough on this planet for both (i.e., self-reliance & group commitment) to be practiced without harming or threatening the other.
Q: On your AT van-supported trips, if one is sick and wants to keep up with the group, what happens?
A: If they have made the commitment to the circle, they keep on walking, with the physical/emotional support of the other circle members, until they are healthy again.
Chomp #5 - Well-thought out. That was a satire that was a pleasure to read.
Happy trails to all!
I do not plan expedition members' meals (lucky for them!)
Warren,
Let me guess what your menu plan would be like:
Day 1:
Breakfast: Little Debbies
Lunch: Little Debbies
Dinner: Little Debbies
Days 2 through 120:
Repeat
Am I close?
warren doyle
03-24-2004, 18:38
Frosty,
Pretty close. But I would highly recommend Little Debbie brownies bought in 2 'big' boxes for $5 in Wal-Mart. The menu would be varied when there was access to AYCE places along the trail and restaurants with their leftover menus.
PS - now let's see if the internet police have something hypercritical to say about my answer to your question.
Frosty,
Pretty close. But I would highly recommend Little Debbie brownies bought in 2 'big' boxes for $5 in Wal-Mart. The menu would be varied when there was access to AYCE places along the trail and restaurants with their leftover menus.
PS - now let's see if the internet police have something hypercritical to say about my answer to your question.
What exactly are left over menu's? I've seen you mention this in conjunction with AYCE's a couple times. Never heard of them
warren doyle
03-24-2004, 19:22
Oh boy A-Train, now I'm really going to cause trouble!
Leftover menu definition (disclaimers: This definition only applies to when I am on a long section hike or a thru-hike. This definition only is applicable in non-AYCE restaurants)
When a hungry, long-distance hiker enters a restaurant they observe to see if there are any leftovers on other tables that have not been cleared off yet. Leftovers are foods that have not been bitten into or chewed up yet or have had cigarettes put out in them - buns, slices of bread, pizza slices, hoagies, french fries, chips, pickles, etc. After the hiker orders their regular meal, for an appetizer (and the extra needed calories) the aforementioned hiker scavenges the remaining leftover foods from adjacent tables and proceeds to consume them at their table.
For me it is an ethical question boiling down to this "Is that food going to go to the maggots or is it going to me?" And even though I have been equated to a cockaroach by one WB poster, even a cockaroach would say "No way!" to a maggot.
Happy eating!
gravityman
03-24-2004, 19:36
You gotta respect that level of dedication to "recycling"!
Hmmm.... we use to raise pigs and we got our food for them from the local schools - the "leftover menu" Then they got the bright idea that they could sell it to the highest bidder. We were small time, so it didn't make sense for us. I wonder if restaurants do a similar thing?
Gravity Man
steve hiker
03-24-2004, 20:04
Hmmm.... we use to raise pigs and we got our food for them from the local schools - the "leftover menu" Then they got the bright idea that they could sell it to the highest bidder.
Before you know it they'll start mixing the bitten-up pieces in with the whole leftovers. That could create some real problems for hikers, ala Mad Cow Disease.
(For those that don't know, some blame Mad Cow Disease on the practice of livestock feed manufacturers of mixing cattle parts and carcasses in with other ingredients to make cattle feed. Same danger could be present here.)
Hey Warren, RAT > PATROL here. I have practiced many of your techniques like the "leftover menu" and most useful the "stack" method at AYCE`s (always purple goo at end), but most enjoyed was the dress funny and run/jump like a deer thru the militarized zone in the middle of the night on the trail down south during maneuvers, lol. HA HA. Hope things are going well with you, good luck on the book. I dont have a copy as I am poor hiker trash and will never be able to afford one! Have you heard anything of our dear friend Sam Waddle lately? His developing severe Altzheimers a few yrs back was sure some sad news. I miss our monthly trips to the mtns. and cherish the memory of his last trip which was with me. Take care, sure to see you soon. RAT
Blue Jay
03-25-2004, 09:01
You're letting out a valuable secret Warren. I'm not that worried as most Americans are to hoyty toyty. I have another way to do it that is more efficient and also spreads good will. First you buy a cheap meal. You very politely ask the waiter or waitress to pay them $5 to bring you the leftovers. Most of them do not make a lot of money so they are more than happy to do so. Recently many immigrants are doing those jobs because you can't get Americans to do them. Often this leads to friendships, places to stay and wonderful adventures.
warren doyle
03-25-2004, 09:11
Not to worry RAT. The 'book' is free to copy and is only 2-3 pages long.
Sam Waddle is a great human being. It was wonderful to be with him the first time he ever was on Springer and the only time he was on Katahdin. Everyone was fortunate to travel up 'his' mountain with him and to his adopted shelter which should be renamed Sam's Shelter.
Happy trails!
Jack Tarlin
03-25-2004, 10:00
Note to newcomers to the Trail:
Asking restaurant servers or staff to give you the leavings off of other people's plates is NOT behavior that other hikers should emulate. It will only make hikers look like homeless bums.
If you want a meal, pay for it. But to take, or to ask for the scraping off of other folk's plates is as bad, and maybe worse, than panhandling.
I have NEVER seen a thru-hiker approach a restaurant worker and ask if they could eat other folks' leftovers; most restaurant people would be appalled at the question. And likewise, I've NEVER seen a thru-hiker ask for this favor or privilege, perhaps because it's universally acknowledged that this sort of begging is considerred totally uncool town behavior.
And Warren, this is not Internet policing. But if, once again, you encourage others to engage in thoughtless, stupid, and un-thinking behavior, you're going to get called out on it. One minute you're teaching people how to be thieves; the next, you're giving a seminar on creative begging and how to behave like a bum.
And you wonder why people question your calling yourself an "educator."
Teaching folks how to behave like vagrants does not benefit the thru-hiking community, and the newcomers should be absolutely made aware that this sort of behavior is NOT typical, not acceptable, and not something to be copied.
Blue Jay
03-25-2004, 10:31
Note to newcomers to the Trail:
Asking restaurant servers or staff to give you the leavings off of other people's plates is NOT behavior that other hikers should emulate. It will only make hikers look like homeless bums.
If you want a meal, pay for it. But to take, or to ask for the scraping off of other folk's plates is as bad, and maybe worse, than panhandling.
I have NEVER seen a thru-hiker approach a restaurant worker and ask if they could eat other folks' leftovers; most restaurant people would be appalled at the question. And likewise, I've NEVER seen a thru-hiker ask for this favor or privilege, perhaps because it's universally acknowledged that this sort of begging is considerred totally uncool town behavior.
And Warren, this is not Internet policing. But if, once again, you encourage others to engage in thoughtless, stupid, and un-thinking behavior, you're going to get called out on it. One minute you're teaching people how to be thieves; the next, you're giving a seminar on creative begging and how to behave like a bum.
And you wonder why people question your calling yourself an "educator."
Teaching folks how to behave like vagrants does not benefit the thru-hiking community, and the newcomers should be absolutely made aware that this sort of behavior is NOT typical, not acceptable, and not something to be copied.
Jack, it is exactly the opposite. Most working people along the trail think that thruhikers are rich pompous asses who do not have to work. In fact that is often the case. I would have refrained from saying you are a case in point, but your post clearly proves it. Most people cannot imagine, let alone actually take 5 to 6 months off work to walk in the woods. Most people live hand to mouth. When they see you are living hand to mouth they can identify with you. Your resupply instructions (which are excellent) clearly show there are sooo many places along the trail you've never stopped. I have not even done a quarter of your miles and I have stayed at every place you have and almost every place you have not. Talk to town people this year, you'll see they love us polite, honest, down to earth, willing to work dirt bags, more than you nose in the air hoyties.
warren doyle
03-25-2004, 12:09
1) My assumption of the reaction to my answering a fellow poster's question was accurate.
2) And besides, when did I ever say that the hiker should ask the waiter/waitress first?
and the beat goes on....
Happy trails to all and may you all eat well and prosper!
Jack Tarlin
03-25-2004, 13:36
Blue Jay--
I've better things to do than debate this with you. Very few restaurants on the trail or anywhere else look well on people coming in off the street and eating off of other customer's plates. This has nothing to do with being "hoity-toity". Restaurants are there to serve meals; they aren't soup kitchens for people too cheap to pay for their food.
Going into restaurants and obtaining food off of other folk's dirty dishes, whether you ask permission or not, is a lousy way to feed yourself. If hikers started doing this on a regular basis, I assure you that the only reaction would be that a lot of places would immediately become very UN-hiker friendly. This is not the sort of behavior that needs to be encouraged.
Blue Jay
03-25-2004, 14:26
Blue Jay--
Restaurants are there to serve meals; they aren't soup kitchens for people too cheap to pay for their food.
That is exactly correct. That is why I clearly said pay for a meal first. You could not be more wrong about the unfriendly part. Most of the places I have been to remember me as one of the few nonsnobby hikers.
Jack Tarlin
03-25-2004, 14:56
Blue Jay---
I guess we're fated to disagree on this. And yes, you're right when you say there are places near the trail I've never been to; there are, after all, hundreds of businesses, eateries, etc. on, adjacent to, or near the Trail. Nobody has experienced all of these places and I've never claimed that I have.
But I still think there are VERY few places that would appreciate hikers scavenging off of other people's plates, and the fact that one has ordered or paid for an additional small meal as well as going after the leftovers----this is irrelevant. Finishing your best friend's salad or burger is one thing; asking to eat a complete stranger's is something else entirely. Most hikers wouldn't do this, and very few restauranteurs would appreciate your doing it either.
Blue Jay im not exactly sure what working class (or any class of people for that matter) you are used to dealing with but my family lived "hand to mouth" for many years while my father was in the navy and he would have been appalled if we had gone into restaurants and either asked for people's left over food or just gone and taken it. If people want to do that so be it but dont associate that kind of behavior with those that live hand to mouth.
smokymtnsteve
04-08-2004, 16:05
a few years ago I was hanging out in San Fran and two guys were fighting over some left-over pizza in a trash can....the guy with the dog won the battle for the pizza...maybe a good reason to bring a dog on your hike ....you can have the dog grab the left-overs. :D
meet a guy on the trail this past week ..who is walking back to quebec..
"RAW not WAR"(walking 3000 miles on raw food).....he is going into towns and getting his food from dumpsters behind grocery stores...in talking with him he explained how he felt that the wasting of food in this country was a "sin" as much as I disagree with religion I have to agree with him on this point...the throwing away and wasting of food is WRONG!
A couple years ago NPR did a bit on a book called "The Last American Man".
http://tinyurl.com/2xdyy
The person profiled was a thru hiker by the name of Eustice Conway, who if I recall correctly, did his fair share of dumpster diving along the way. On the radio, it seemd rather poetic ;-).
Seemed like a real, real interesting character. Times 10.
Only a page or two speaks of his hike (I think), then he goes on to some more rugged stuff.
Rick B
Cedar Tree
04-08-2004, 18:38
Unbelievable! Eustice Conway?
There was a guy in my Fraternity in college (Sigma Chi at Mississippi State)
named Eustice Conway, surely there aren't 2 Eustice Conways in the world. He was a senior when I was a freshman, so I didn't really know him, but still, that's pretty cool.
Cedar Tree
Jester2000
04-16-2004, 18:02
The funniest thing about this series of posts is someone referring to Baltimore Jack as a person who could be classed as a "rich pompous ass" or (even better) a "nose in the air hoytie." Made my day.
Jack is rich only in friends, knowledge, and pantyhose.
Oh, and Beam.
Out of curiosity, I wonder what the service is like when you start eating from other tables. Do you think the phrase "big tipper" runs through the minds of those hand to mouth town people?
By the by, last year (I think?!?) I had the pleasure of taking Jack to a bar along the trail to which he had never before been. We had PBR on tap. We didn't drink from any of the other glasses that had been left on the bar, though. Had to break a bill to pay, but my dignity remained intact.
Note: I'm well aware that I have no dignity, so no one needs to remind me.
I've thought the list was getting a bit boring recently. The revival of this debate, confirms it. But let's try to find a more interesting thing to debate.
For instance, I think the most interesting thing that's happening these days is the continuing encroachment of development on what in most places is a very narrow trail corridor. I find such waste and destruction of the trail environment far more interesting than whether occasionally some poverty-stricken or rabid environmentalist hiker oogles a neighboring table being vacated by folks whose eyes exceeded their stomach's capacity.
I must admit that from time to time I've been appalled by the waste of food I see in trail side town restaurants. I've been sorely tempted to ask a waitress to pass that uneaten chicken leg or two-thirds of a pizza over to me. I've never done so. Neither have 99.99 percent of hikers. I suspect neither has Warren Doyle.
Weary
For instance, I think the most interesting thing that's happening these days is the continuing encroachment of development on what in most places is a very narrow trail corridor.
Wow - that is what you find interesting? I guess that solves the mystery of how you and Jim Owens have almost completly killed AT-L. I am very thankful for all the characters on this site... even Lone Wolf and Warren. Differeing points of view and thoughts - that is what makes life much more interesting.
Trail conservation, while important, is quite boring.
MedicineMan
04-17-2004, 00:25
I mean I've got it good, 26 weeks a year off, but not 6 months in a row...I had a sneeking suspicion that you were a Kennedy or Shriver or who's that woman getting rung over the coals, Martha somebody-are you related.....
Just pissing in the fan here, Jack is a hiker, rich poor, black, yellow or white...all hikers are precious in my sight, and HIS too.
Do enjoy the soap though!
Mountain Dew
04-17-2004, 00:56
I would second Jester's comments, but I could never be that funny. Well said !!! To walk into a "business" and eat off of another table is not only bad manners and rude to the business who is there to make money off of customers ordering food, but it's uummm how do we say this.... " WHITETRASH" !
Lone Wolf
04-17-2004, 07:09
Me and Pirate used to sit at the bar at Quincey's Pizza and snatch leftovers from the waitresses as they walked by. After a while they would come directly to us with all kinds of goodies. Even Ron and deb the owners thought it was cute.
Wow - that is what you find interesting? ....
.... Trail conservation, while important, is quite boring.
Ah Chomp. That's why it's important to remind people from time to time that trail conservation is needed. If that is capable of killing a list, (it wasn't) it wasn't much of a list to begin with.
But thanks for expressing your opinion. I suspect you believe at least most of what you wrote. But I'm suspicious of two words "while important."
Weary
max patch
04-17-2004, 20:38
I guess that solves the mystery of how you and Jim Owens have almost completly killed AT-L.
Weary killed the AT-L? Hardly, Weary is the ONLY reason to ever go to AT-L.
TJ aka Teej
04-17-2004, 23:49
Weary is the ONLY reason to ever go to AT-L.
Wingfoot, if you want to post here please do so under your own name.
minnesotasmith
06-05-2004, 17:26
I haven't tried to thru-hike the AT yet, or done anything off the Approach Trail (except for 63 miles on the AT in NC as part of a Boy Scout troop in the mid-1970s), so I probably am not as entitled to an opinion on a lot of stuff here as the guys who actually have hiked the whole AT. That said, here is my take on getting food from a restaurant other than by ordering it:
Food is not expensive; it's GOOD-TASTING food (especially convenient good-tasting food) that is expensive. If you can get by eating beans, oatmeal, rice, occasional cans of sardines & spinach, and that sort of thing, it would seem to me that food will not be a big deal money-wise. If you want to cadge food from a restaurant, hanging around late when they are not far from closing (after first socializing with one of the back-kitchen guys some) and dropping hints is the better way to go than going after some abandoned leftovers on a nearby plate, to say nothing of dumpster diving. I don't know about how it is in the South, but up north in the last few years, business dumpsters increasingly are being switched to the type that you cannot get into from the outside, and thus can't get anything from; perhaps dumpster diving will soon be over for people who don't own cutting torches? Still, though, that is a humiliating, time-consuming task IMO. Why not instead try to find AYCE places when you hit towns, eat cheap nutritious (if boring) grocery store food, and work a few more hours overtime at your job before you leave for the AT? If you make even just 12.00 net at time-and-a-half after taxes at your job, that strikes me as more time-efficient than hanging around a restaurant for several hours for a non-guaranteed shot at 6.00 or so worth of food (that won't keep if you luck into a whole pile of it). Besides, it would seem you could conceivably get in trouble with the copthieves doing plate-grabbing; I would not want to do anything avoidable that would have a chance of risking my finishing my thru-hike.
That said, if I were near the far end of a thru-hike and out of money (with no friends/family to send me more), I certainly would consider other options WRT getting food so I could finish the AT. Seeing if I could do basic labor, polish someone's cars, mow a lawn, bathe dogs, wash windows, rake lawns, weed gardens, move stuff, clear brush, do rough carpentry, tutor someone's kid (I do have a science master's degree), etc., for someone in a trail town for a few days in exchange for some food money would seem more the way I would personally want to go, though. Not everyone will agree with me at either point, I'm sure; HYOH, right?
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Warren, I'd like to find out more about your AT training camps. After reading what I think was everything on your website, I sent you an e-mail asking for the schedule of when additional ones (post-June) will be likely held later this year, but I haven't heard back from you. My E-mail is
[email protected] (switch the "6" to an "8").
smokymtnsteve
06-05-2004, 17:58
It is not the point of food being expensive or not ....wasting food is wrong...
if someone wants to dumpster dive..good for them...the people throwing away the food are "more wrong" then the folks reclaiming it. money isn't the issue...waste is.
Ankle Bone
06-05-2004, 19:41
Dumpster Diving and Panhandling leftovers from the busboy are two different things. The latter just confirms the prejudice of some that hikers are bums. The former ain't much better, but at least the food has been thrown out.
I'll choose to do neither while hiking.
Lone Wolf
06-05-2004, 23:23
Bottom line. Work, save $ and pay your way end to end. ***n hippies.
Aww man, nobody has posted on this thread for, like, a year! And it's about dumpsters! I should of done a dumpster search long ago.
I dumpster at home all the time and get GREAT food. None of it is dirty, it's all in plastic bags. There is only one grocery store in town that doesn't have a trash compacter, so my options are somewhat limited, but they throw away the best food. Organic crackers, vegetables, fruit, bread, the list goes on!
BUT when I did my thru hike this year I only dumpstered food about 3-4 times. Didn't want to give hikers a bad name in town, so I just bought food, even though the dumpsters were probally overflowing with grub!
Alas, my hike is over, so it's back to a grocery bill of near zero. That's more booze money!
Many Moons
07-27-2016, 22:41
Here is a good post from the past I am enjoy reading tonight! Hike On!!!!!
What drink did you indulge in tonight?
I've always heard there were philosophical differences in their approach to hiking between Doyle and Jack. They really were at polar ends of the spectrum.