View Full Version : Trail towns & garbage & broken Glass...
Wise Old Owl
10-02-2008, 23:36
OK I am jumping on the beer case in a large crowd and asking for your opinion's. Appears to me to be the right thing to do. Read On,
Last month I sectioned hiked the AT at Port Clinton PA. I was somewhat appalled at the amount of garbage & broken glass on the trail. I know the clubs & volunteers are doing all they can to clean it up. But this with dumped tires and people breaking into cars, when and how do we as a group properly solicit the trail towns to police in a cooperative way to pick up the slack? Part of the problem appears to be boredom among juveniles living in the same towns. (underage drinking & pot smoking)
What can we do on INTERNET to get together and increase the effort in a positive way to get local trail town folks motivated to make a difference?
The problem might just be here in the North I can just bet there are some towns already on the wagon,
Mark.
Just because the trail goes thru a town, does not make the town responsible for the trail. Those that use the trail are responsible for it. It is sad that those who use it for anything other than its intended purpose, like a dump, do not take responsibility.
It's a well known fact that 9 out of 10 thru-hikers who push their used tires from Springer get sick of that by the time they cross the Schuylkill and leave them in Port Clinton. :D
A little more seriously, BMECC with other Trail friends tried earlier this year: http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=35034 and in some places it's an uphill battle against the jerks. There's a lot of other dumps in the are beyond the A.T. http://www.pacleanways.org/
I did organize a major dump cleanup once along the GET in Tioga County. Wish I had time to help with Port Clinton but I'm already oversubscribed. :(
Rain Man
10-03-2008, 10:01
OK I am jumping on the beer case .... Last month I sectioned hiked the AT at Port Clinton PA. I was somewhat appalled at the amount of garbage & broken glass on the trail....
So, is there a direct correlation you see between (1) beer and (2) broken glass/garbage? While I strongly suspect so, I don't want to read too much into unknown facts.
Rain:sunMan
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On my hike this summer doing the 40 miles through MD, I noticed the most trash I had ever seen on the trail. The beer cans were the thing I noticed the most and most of it was, in my opinion, caused by the trail being so close to housing and populated areas. I passed probably 4-5 guys doing a day hike, all drinking beer while they hiked, and one guy had a cooler strapped to a wooden pole and that was slung over his shoulder. I would think that some of those cans would hit the trail before the end of the hike. People doing a short hike for the novelty of it, would not have the exposure to the leave no trace logo we have heard for years as we go about our backpacking experience.
About 5 weeks ago, at the Leroy Smith shelter area, we were visited by about 10 locals who carried two cases of beer up with them. We persuaded them to pick up and carry off all the litter we could see/find. When they said they wouldn't take away the remaining beer because their case boxes were ripped apart my partner pulled out his duct tape and made a beer tote with box remains. Then no excuses.
There were a few tense moments. Becoming an instant surrogate parent was not in the evening plan. Most of them figured no one would be up there and I think they all figured we would leave after they arrived. Oh well.
The next morning I picked up the remains of a broken bottle and a few other bits and toted them a few miles to the next handy garbage can.
Now regarding the original post I suspect there are several ways trail locals feel about trail trash as well as if-or-ever they would participate in cleaning it up. For some it may just be better left "out there" than near them or their town. For others who get out there with their families and such it might be well worth a little more communication but not in a pushy way.
How to reduce the draw of certain trail areas as party central? Not a simple question to answer nor something that could be solved overnight but will address a root cause.............
jersey joe
10-03-2008, 11:34
Littering is a problem on and off the trail. I've seen people stop their car, dump a whole pile of garbage into the street and just keep driving. I think law enforcement, whether it be cops or rangers need to get more agressive in giving fines for littering. This will help deter littering. If I can get a $150 dollar fine for talking on my cell phone, why not give a $150 fine for throwing a candy bar wrapper out a window???
One person doesn't have to get it all, but if every hiker who wanted the trail litterless picked up some litter each time they went for a hike, the trail would be a lot cleaner. If I hike for 2 hours, I might spend 2 minutes tops picking up the litter I find as I hike. It's not that much of an intrusion. It offends the sensibilities to find litter on the trail, but that should be no reason not to pick it up.
Lone Wolf
10-03-2008, 11:45
How to reduce the draw of certain trail areas as party central? Not a simple question to answer nor something that could be solved overnight but will address a root cause.............
simple answer. get rid of all shelters
jersey joe
10-03-2008, 11:47
simple answer. get rid of all shelters
It doesn't have to be a shelter, it could be a fire ring in a clearing 1/2 mile from a road, kids will find it and drink and break glass.
Lone Wolf
10-03-2008, 11:53
yup. true
I wonder if there would be any reduction of trash in a few spots if the "Shelter 0.5 Miles Ahead" signs at the road-trail head were removed?? Sure the "regulars" no longer need the sign but others might not trek out there if the signage wasn't so clear. Agreed, if the shelter wasn't there in the first place but some would slip on up to the big level spot with the fire ring just the same.
Blissful
10-03-2008, 11:59
Cruddy dump by 19E too by the trail if I recall. A shame.
wrongway_08
10-03-2008, 12:07
Just like any crime, the justice system has to stop making a joke out of the punishments, untill then, catch them and kick the crap outta them, a few days drinking their dinner through a straw will give them something to be sorry about and the doctors bill will give them something to work towards (paying off) instead of being bored enough to go commet crimes.
Now that I think about it, what about closing some of the road-parking access to some spots? Make them open during hunting season if circumstances require. So the family wishes to walk up to the beauty spot on a Sunday afternoon. Great, they will have another hour or three outdoors and not in the car.
Still need fire service access I know.
wrongway_08
10-03-2008, 12:10
Now that I think about it, what about closing some of the road-parking access to some spots? Make them open during hunting season if circumstances require.
They do this at some areas now. Its a shame, another case of punish the innocent and not the crimminal.
middle to middle
10-03-2008, 12:20
I live in Maryland and am familiar with an instance of a fire ring being the attractor. The rocks were scattered and the ashes covered and the problem "mostly" solved.
Tennessee Viking
10-03-2008, 14:25
OK I am jumping on the beer case in a large crowd and asking for your opinion's. Appears to me to be the right thing to do. Read On,
Last month I sectioned hiked the AT at Port Clinton PA. I was somewhat appalled at the amount of garbage & broken glass on the trail. I know the clubs & volunteers are doing all they can to clean it up. But this with dumped tires and people breaking into cars, when and how do we as a group properly solicit the trail towns to police in a cooperative way to pick up the slack? Part of the problem appears to be boredom among juveniles living in the same towns. (underage drinking & pot smoking)
What can we do on INTERNET to get together and increase the effort in a positive way to get local trail town folks motivated to make a difference?
The problem might just be here in the North I can just bet there are some towns already on the wagon,
Mark.
Gosh...My club has had a problem with one particular guy at Bear Branch/19E. Heck...some of my club members, county sheriffs office, and Forest Service have this guy on video dumping his trash on the trail. Every month we have volunteers that clean it up, then it gets trashed again. Mainly everything supposedly centers around on how the Forest Service aquired some land for the trail.
Collect the stuff up, then follow him home and dump it on his lawn.
Too many trailheads on the AT, and VERY easy access for the riff-raff.
NICKTHEGREEK
10-03-2008, 16:08
Too many trailheads on the AT, and VERY easy access for the riff-raff.
That was the plan - how else would the riff-raff find it and continue their hikes?
Serial 07
10-03-2008, 16:11
You want the riff, it's the raff that's the problem...
I wonder if there would be any reduction of trash in a few spots if the "Shelter 0.5 Miles Ahead" signs at the road-trail head were removed?? Sure the "regulars" no longer need the sign but others might not trek out there if the signage wasn't so clear. Agreed, if the shelter wasn't there in the first place but some would slip on up to the big level spot with the fire ring just the same.
Maine has gradually removed almost all shelters close to roads and built new ones a mile or two, or three, away from roads. It has helped.
Weary
Wise Old Owl
10-04-2008, 11:12
So, is there a direct correlation you see between (1) beer and (2) broken glass/garbage? While I strongly suspect so, I don't want to read too much into unknown facts.
Rain:sunMan
.
Yes Rain Man, there appears to be something too it, "IF it doest fit-you must acquit"
Wise Old Owl
10-04-2008, 11:24
I live in Maryland and am familiar with an instance of a fire ring being the attractor. The rocks were scattered and the ashes covered and the problem "mostly" solved.
I saw a similar program in the NH where they would take large deadfall with three or four people helping & cover the clearing - making it difficult to be there. Great Program.
Cuffs - & others - This isn't about the shelters, they are over 7 miles away from Port Clinton - this is about educational awareness of a town that can "pitch in" and help. This is about the nearby poop ulation messing up something that they might not be aware of in their back yard.
NICKTHEGREEK
10-04-2008, 11:52
You want the riff, it's the raff that's the problem...
Ok, I got it now
saimyoji
10-04-2008, 14:15
What can we do on INTERNET to get together and increase the effort in a positive way to get local trail town folks motivated to make a difference?
Get off the internet and join in the clean up. Good folks will always be cleaning up ******** messes.
simple answer. get rid of all shelters
It doesn't have to be a shelter, it could be a fire ring in a clearing 1/2 mile from a road, kids will find it and drink and break glass.
They'll make their own fire rings ifn one isn't there already. Simple answer: Bad parenting. A license should be required to reproduce.
Cuffs - & others - This isn't about the shelters, they are over 7 miles away from Port Clinton - this is about educational awareness of a town that can "pitch in" and help. This is about the nearby population messing up something that they might not be aware of in their back yard.
People often are blind to what's in their own backyards. There is the potential for great things to happen at PC in the near future, but those who live there are the people who will need to make it happen if it is to happen.
There are signs of improvement and some momentum. The task is to sustain it and enlist others, especially young people.
River Runner
10-04-2008, 16:32
Send them to West Virginia. :rolleyes:
After a few months here they'll learn to avoid walking anywhere to party & they'll soon be littering only in areas accessible to four wheelers, leaving the AT cleaner. :D
At least that's how it works around here. :(
It's kind of you to offer, but I don't think we should send our trash and their refuse to West Virginia. I have many friends there and they get dumped on enough already.
Maine has gradually removed almost all shelters close to roads and built new ones a mile or two, or three, away from roads. It has helped.
I'm with Weary. Shelters near roads are asking for trouble. Vandalism waiting to happen. Keep shelters a mile or two in from the road, make it just a bit too much bother for the kids to walk in and party.
Jim Adams
10-04-2008, 23:47
Keeping shelters far my help alittle but probably not as much as you think. I walked into a hot springs 7 miles from the closest road on the PCT and there were cases of beer, lots of pot, hard liquor and 150 high, drunken, naked people...but no garbage or graphitti....seems they were educated better than back east!?........great party!
geek
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 11:07
It's kind of you to offer, but I don't think we should send our trash and their refuse to West Virginia. I have many friends there and they get dumped on enough already.
Answers like that remind me of the "old WB" - :banana Hoo Hoo!
Just posting like I always do. When Port Clinton decides they want something better and are determined they will have it no matter what it takes, then they will. Simply wishing for something better will not make it so.
About 5 weeks ago, at the Leroy Smith shelter area, we were visited by about 10 locals who carried two cases of beer up with them. We persuaded them to pick up and carry off all the litter we could see/find. When they said they wouldn't take away the remaining beer because their case boxes were ripped apart my partner pulled out his duct tape and made a beer tote with box remains. Then no excuses.
There were a few tense moments. Becoming an instant surrogate parent was not in the evening plan. Most of them figured no one would be up there and I think they all figured we would leave after they arrived. Oh well.
The next morning I picked up the remains of a broken bottle and a few other bits and toted them a few miles to the next handy garbage can.
Now regarding the original post I suspect there are several ways trail locals feel about trail trash as well as if-or-ever they would participate in cleaning it up. For some it may just be better left "out there" than near them or their town. For others who get out there with their families and such it might be well worth a little more communication but not in a pushy way.
How to reduce the draw of certain trail areas as party central? Not a simple question to answer nor something that could be solved overnight but will address a root cause.............
Please forgive me for appearing to rant...It seems to me that as a society we have abdicated our responsibility to stand up to someone and say, "hey thats not right and your not going to do that right in front of me". I am not sure how this happened. Perhaps its because we are told to not get involved, to "report to the authorities" and let the system handle it.
I appreciate what Tractor did. It took a bit of fortitude, but I think in the long run those teenagers will probably be better for the experience. How many of us would have looked the other way or moved on?
There is an old saying that "we get the government that we deserve" perhaps its the same with our communities.
I feel better now.
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 14:02
That's Cool - I am glad you feel better...