View Full Version : As we get a little older.. life giving drugs....
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 13:26
My doctor & I are at odds as he is starting to prescribe medicines to lower blood pressure and cholesterol. He is under the impression that I don't excersise... No I won't tell him I do 15 miles or more on a weekend.
I just noticed while taking these drugs that its now harder to get up the hills, I can't figure out if its the drug or my age. So I started a new diet & exercise plan for now and will keep going. I am sure I am leaving something out here so I will be checking back each morning.
Diovan appears to be the culprit.
Thoughts..... Anyone?
You better be straight with your doctor and what your routine is. This will aid him in getting the best meds for you. I can attest to this as the police took my grandmother to an 'institution' because she did not disclose all her meds to all the different docs she was seeing and they did NOT mix, and they messed her up pretty good.
Your best bet is to start out being honest.
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 13:38
We "revisit" each other next month, He didn't tell me to fast before a blood test, so I failed the results -
dessertrat
10-05-2008, 13:41
My doctor & I are at odds as he is starting to prescribe medicines to lower blood pressure and cholesterol. He is under the impression that I don't excersise... No I won't tell him I do 15 miles or more on a weekend.
I just noticed while taking these drugs that its now harder to get up the hills, I can't figure out if its the drug or my age. So I started a new diet & exercise plan for now and will keep going. I am sure I am leaving something out here so I will be checking back each morning.
Diovan appears to be the culprit.
Thoughts..... Anyone?
Why won't you tell him about your hiking?
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 13:54
Good Question, My wife Deanna provided this answer. Hiking 15+ miles a weekend does not consitute excercise that a Doctor or Physical therapist would be looking for. Three times a week on a tread mill or daily walk with a good diet and heathy lifestyle would be more appropriate.
The Solemates
10-05-2008, 14:04
We "revisit" each other next month, He didn't tell me to fast before a blood test, so I failed the results -
If you dont like your doctor, find another one.
dessertrat
10-05-2008, 14:04
Good Question, My wife Deanna provided this answer. Hiking 15+ miles a weekend does not consitute excercise that a Doctor or Physical therapist would be looking for. Three times a week on a tread mill or daily walk with a good diet and heathy lifestyle would be more appropriate.
Although some studies say you must exercise at least three times per week to get a cardiovascular benefit, there are other studies that say once a week is enough.
I know of a certainty that this summer, hiking on average at least 10-20 miles per weekend, with no real exercise during the week, my fitness level contiued to improve week by week.
Montana Mac
10-05-2008, 14:14
I would let your Doc know that you hike. Last year after my section hike (approx 475 miles) I had my annual physical. My cholesterol and weight were down. My doc was impressed and I explained that I had been doing some hiking. His advice was to keep hiking. Even though he is my GP he is also a "sports medicine" doctor and feels that any exercise is better than none.
My health and weight were not very good several years ago, and I was on prescribed cholesterol lowering medication. I started walking 3 miles a day (briskly), 6 days or more a week, started watching what I eat, and lost 40 lbs. I now am off all medication and at my annual physical a couple of months ago my doctor said my blood work and vital signs are in the 'healthy teenager' category!
The old saying, "If you don't like the direction you're headed, you have to change directions" drove me to undertake all this. In April I started using my trekking poles every day on my 3-mile walks and my upper body - shoulders and arms, are experiencing great benefits from that, ending problems I was having with shoulder and neck pain at night trying to sleep.
The older you get the more 'if you don't use it you lose it' comes into play. I became determined that I will not succumb to a middle-age body and middle-age typical lifestyle, supported by multiple medications (that often conflict with one another) to offset my failure to treat my body right. So far, the results of my determined actions have been remarkable. I plan to keep on keepin' on with my new healthy lifestyle choices as long as the good Lord enables me to. :)
Good Question, My wife Deanna provided this answer. Hiking 15+ miles a weekend does not consitute excercise that a Doctor or Physical therapist would be looking for. Three times a week on a tread mill or daily walk with a good diet and heathy lifestyle would be more appropriate.
Hike on the weekends and do easier exercise a few days during the week.
fiddlehead
10-05-2008, 15:03
I don't trust many doctors after watching how they treat my Mom.
She was taking 22 pills a day and was in bad shape.
We got her down to two and she improved drastically.
It was the pills doing 90% of the problems.
I prefer to eat right, exercise 3-5 times a week and when i feel sick, it is echenacea for me. Or the right foods.
You know there's a lot of truth to "an apple a day keeps the doctor away"
Word up on being open and honest about EVERY thing you take, including OTC (Over The Counter). Some doctors are much better than others about being "up" on drug interactions. You also mentioned chlorseteral meds. You know, you are not to be consuming grapefruit while on that? Yeah, seemed "out there" when my doctor told me....but sure enough...something in them....
Our area also has a guy, who is a registered pharmacist. He's a chemical guru. I've taken a list, and I mean, everything, even vitamines, to him and said "any issues with this??" The doctors send people to this guy when they needs "compounds" (that is when the drugs have to be precisly measured out and mixed up....). You might need to ask around about that.
And, hiking 15 miles a day on a weekend, means you have 1/3 of your exercise in. Find a way to walk an hour a day/night, two more nights. Do some weights or something also.
BTW, I was certain that after I lost 20 lbs that my high cholesterol would be naturally better . . . I was wrong! But when I lost another 20 lbs, putting me within my 'ideal weight' range, my natural cholesterol level then became good without meds. I've never had high blood pressure. I attribute that to the 17 years that I was an avid distance runner, more than anything . . . perhaps also because I've never smoked cigarettes.
I would suggest looking into natural high blood pressure reducing diets/food. Talk to your doctor about the possibility of transitioning from Diovan to natural dietary treatments and exercise. If your doctor isn't a sports medicine doctor, perhaps you should switch to one, who is much more inclined to steer you toward natural treatment of your situation.
My health and weight were not very good several years ago, and I was on prescribed cholesterol lowering medication. I started walking 3 miles a day (briskly), 6 days or more a week, started watching what I eat, and lost 40 lbs. I now am off all medication and at my annual physical a couple of months ago my doctor said my blood work and vital signs are in the 'healthy teenager' category!
The old saying, "If you don't like the direction you're headed, you have to change directions" drove me to undertake all this. In April I started using my trekking poles every day on my 3-mile walks and my upper body - shoulders and arms, are experiencing great benefits from that, ending problems I was having with shoulder and neck pain at night trying to sleep.
The older you get the more 'if you don't use it you lose it' comes into play. I became determined that I will not succumb to a middle-age body and middle-age typical lifestyle, supported by multiple medications (that often conflict with one another) to offset my failure to treat my body right. So far, the results of my determined actions have been remarkable. I plan to keep on keepin' on with my new healthy lifestyle choices as long as the good Lord enables me to. :)
I have a very similar story, agree with everything you said here. I walk/run up and down a hill for an hour everyday.
Folks need to know that a doctor can make around $20,000/year in commissions paid by the pharmacuticals. They have a vested iterest in getting you on and keeping you on maintenance drugs.
Pedaling Fool
10-05-2008, 17:02
15 miles on every weekend may or may not be enough, depends on other factors, like how much sitting do you do when not hiking, what's your diet like (remember easy to lie to yourself - you eat more twinkies than you think), and so on. If you need medication to lower blood pressure and cholesterol, then you may not be getting enough exercise and you're probably eating wrong (I know there's exceptions).
If you're able, start a more rigorous workout program. You don't need to join a gym to do certain things while you're watching TV. Like situps, pushups, leglifts, squats, many more ideas on the web.
Here's a little test: Exercising both arms and legs at the same time is an outstanding strength and cardio workout. Just try and do a squat with light weights (~20-40 lbs), everytime you come up from the squat position push the weight above your head (military press), without using the upward momentum of your body. If you can do 30 of those without difficulty then ignore everything I've typed.
mkmangold
10-05-2008, 18:06
What meds are you taking?
Montana Mac
10-05-2008, 18:12
You also mentioned chlorseteral meds. You know, you are not to be consuming grapefruit while on that? Yeah, seemed "out there" when my doctor told me....but sure enough...something in them....
I also take cholesterol meds and the one I take does not have a negative interaction with grapefruit. I originally was on Lipitor and went off it because I like grapefruit and grapefruit juice. My doc researched the one I am now on and that doesn't have a problem with grapefruit. FYI
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 18:18
Diovan ( blood Pressure) 160mg Crestor (Colesterol) 20mg I just started Crestor so it isn't really the issue.
Seperate post
Thank's Summit!- the weight is going to come off.
Seperate post - Solemate
Some Doc's are better than other's, He's a close C+ and I'm not changing at this point.
Do you take the Diovan daily? If so, do you take it in the morning? If you do, then talk to your doc about taking it at night instead.
mkmangold
10-05-2008, 19:05
[quote=Wise Old Owl;706682]Diovan ( blood Pressure) 160mg Crestor (Colesterol) 20mg I just started Crestor so it isn't really the issue.
Diovan is a good medication and shouldn't interfere with energy levels (unlike some other anti-hypertensives such as beta blockers). I took it but it made my urine smell bad so I switched to terazosin.
Crestor is a statin. Check out this website for more info: http://www.spacedoc.net/
I personally like fish oils, TriCor and niacin better.
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 19:09
Do you take the Diovan daily? If so, do you take it in the morning? If you do, then talk to your doc about taking it at night instead.
Yes daily, Not a bad idea and I can take it at night, I am also setting up a stair master.
So, exactly how old is older?
I list my age so folks get some gist as to where I may be coming from, socially.
I haven'thad to take any medications foranything so far (bee stings excluded).
Only recently have I had any hint that age is catching up with me (arthritis and high blood sugar). I attribute the second to the sudden decrease in physical activity and a nasty sweet tooth. I try to commute the 10 miles each way to work a couple of times a week, but that hasn't been working out lately due to other commitments.
What constitutes older?
Btw: That 10 miles would be by bicycle. :P
Saint Alfonzo
10-05-2008, 20:01
I use to chuckle at people who had those 7-day pill boxes; I'm not chuckling any more...
Jan LiteShoe
10-05-2008, 20:20
What meds are you taking?
Also curious. Are you on statins, by any chance? They are notorious for muscle aches and pains, which docs often dismiss as age or arthritis. My sweetheart is on them.
I'm no doc, just a reader. Here's a link discussing it:
http://www.spacedoc.net/muscle_pain_statins.htm
Google "muscle pain + statin" for more.
You may not be on statins, but other might be.
There's some evidence CoEnzyme Q-10 can reduce the muscle pain, and those on statins probably need to supplement this anyway.
Jan LiteShoe
10-05-2008, 20:22
Sorry, when I hit "refresh," there were your meds posted. No statins.
Good luck!
fiddlehead
10-05-2008, 20:33
So, exactly how old is older?
I list my age so folks get some gist as to where I may be coming from, socially.
I
What constitutes older?
Good question Tinker.
I guess for me "Older" happens when i can't do the things i could before.
But i'm fightin it. I'm still joggin 2-3 times a week and hiking 2-3 times also.
I definitely have slowed down some in the past 5 years but won't really know how much until i try another thru-hike and that won't be until my kid gets old enough to go with (he's 3)
My half-marathon times have slowed down a little but i had dengue fever a month before this past year and lost a lot of weight so i'm not going by that yet
I'm still not taking any meds and will fight that as long as i can. I do take aspirin for hangovers but have been doing that all my life.
I don't think i'm "older" too much yet.
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 20:42
I use to chuckle at people who had those 7-day pill boxes; I'm not chuckling any more...
No I am not chucking anymore either.....
Tinker I'm a 47yo & 220lbs and 5'11 the weight is a love for Yeungling - which I just quit. I actually eat very healthy.
Lone Wolf
10-05-2008, 20:45
My doctor & I are at odds as he is starting to prescribe medicines to lower blood pressure and cholesterol. He is under the impression that I don't excersise... No I won't tell him I do 15 miles or more on a weekend.
I just noticed while taking these drugs that its now harder to get up the hills, I can't figure out if its the drug or my age. So I started a new diet & exercise plan for now and will keep going. I am sure I am leaving something out here so I will be checking back each morning.
Diovan appears to be the culprit.
Thoughts..... Anyone?
get off the meds. change what you eat daily, get your heart rate up for at least an hour daily. drugs are the wrong answer.
So, exactly how old is older?
What constitutes older? Starts at 55, I'm pretty sure. :D:p:rolleyes:
Pedaling Fool
10-05-2008, 20:51
No I am not chucking anymore either.....
Tinker I'm a 47yo & 220lbs and 5'11 the weight is a love for Yeungling - which I just quit. I actually eat very healthy.
Did you take the test? Takes less than 5 minutes;)
...
Here's a little test: Exercising both arms and legs at the same time is an outstanding strength and cardio workout. Just try and do a squat with light weights (~20-40 lbs), everytime you come up from the squat-position push the weight above your head (military press), without using the upward momentum of your body. If you can do 30 of those without difficulty then ignore everything I've typed.
I've had high blood pressure my entire life and ignored it until five years ago when I had a TIA. I now take four different medications for BP and still average something around 155/90. All of my lab work is normal except BP which was as high as 210/110 when it finally got me. In my case the BP is both genetic and stress related and so far I haven't been able to do much about either. My doctor does want me to lose 40-50 Lbs. I weigh 185.
With regard to hiking, I can easily walk 10-12 miles per day and if my feet would agree I could do more. I am however very slow uphill as a result of my medications. My solution to this is to hike solo, no need for me to rush or for anyone else to wait.
mkmangold
10-05-2008, 23:11
get off the meds. change what you eat daily, get your heart rate up for at least an hour daily. drugs are the wrong answer.
Bad advice.
Don't ever just "get off your meds," especially anti-hypertensives. Do the suggested non-pharmaceutical things first and see if your blood pressure and cholesterol levels go down and then discuss with your doctor the plan to reduce or get off of them.
Wise Old Owl
10-05-2008, 23:28
Took & past the test - It's not the squats its the lungs, I do get a little winded. Good test.
So, exactly how old is older?"Older" is mostly a state of mind. Many people I observe in their 40s are 'older' than me, mentally and physically.
"Older" is mostly a state of mind. Many people I observe in their 40s are 'older' than me, mentally and physically.
Gettin "older" aint fer sissies. :)
Bad advice.
Don't ever just "get off your meds," especially anti-hypertensives. Do the suggested non-pharmaceutical things first and see if your blood pressure and cholesterol levels go down and then discuss with your doctor the plan to reduce or get off of them.
Agreed. My doctor did NOT just slam me onto chloresteral drug. I went to him with bad ankle pain (walking too much, to fast, too hard) and wrist pain. He ordered blood work, as he was looking for gout. Found no gout, confirming the ankle pain was inflamation due to walking stresses and wrist due to computer work. He then sent me home to write down everything I ate for a week. He was looking to cut out stuff for chloresteral control. When I came back....nothing to cut! I asked again about diets and such and he gave me one....but you'd not want to be on it (brown rice, and oatmeal....thats it...no butter, sugar, nothing else)....and that would also not lower it enough.....SO, find a doctor that wants to work with you.....Be open and honest (BOTH ways)....
Lone Wolf
10-06-2008, 12:20
Bad advice.
Don't ever just "get off your meds," especially anti-hypertensives. Do the suggested non-pharmaceutical things first and see if your blood pressure and cholesterol levels go down and then discuss with your doctor the plan to reduce or get off of them.
it worked for me. they had me on lipitor and some high blood pressure meds. i felt like crap on the meds. after 4 months i went off the stuff. felt a lot better. i just changed my eating habits and exercised a lot more
Two Speed
10-06-2008, 12:52
Not quite the same story, but close. Get a physical, doctor wants to put me on Lipitor.
I decide I ain't going for that crap, get serious about getting into the gym, loosing a little weight, etc and get another physical, different doctor this time.
Get the results, new doctor is happy with the way things are going. I discuss the previous physical, and the new doc says something to the effect of "why was he going to put you on Lipitor? Your cholesterol was marginal at that time, anyway."
it worked for me. they had me on lipitor and some high blood pressure meds. i felt like crap on the meds. after 4 months i went off the stuff. felt a lot better. i just changed my eating habits and exercised a lot more
Thats great. Glad it worked for you. Sometimes, for some people, it won't. I'm fortunate in that my regular GP, is always looking for ME to fix it. I mean, he first looked at my diet. If I ate, and refused to change, eggs and bacon every breakfast, cheeseburgers and fries every lunch, Tex-Mex or fried dinner, chased down with Ice-cream....then all the meds in the world, were just a band-aid. I'm willing to work on it. Some are not. I had a friend, he died of a heart attack. He'd go in a bar, ordering beer, load up his insulin, stick in thru his jeans and sit there pumping beer and insulin!!! He was dead at 50. LW, sounds like you have it under control with a change in life-style. Smart move.
it worked for me. they had me on lipitor and some high blood pressure meds. i felt like crap on the meds. after 4 months i went off the stuff. felt a lot better. i just changed my eating habits and exercised a lot more
High cholesterol is merely a symptom of a larger problem of (usually) inflammation. If you are concerned about those numbers, stop eating anything refined/white. Sugars (anything with an -ose), flour, rice etc are primary drivers of LDL cholesterol. Rather than worry about those numbers, look to the ratio of your triglycerides/HDL. You're shooting for a number close to 1. Lowering cholesterol isn't the complete answer to heart health as there is a sizable percentage of heart patients with 'good' cholesterol numbers. As to saturated fats and cholesterol, I am, again, unconvinced that fat is a dietary problem. (That will lead us into a discussion of the role of grains and industrial farming being a far greater threat to our health through the elimination of Omega-3 fats for the sake of shelf-life and profit.)
Things I've read about cholesterol drugs lead me to think they aren't so good for liver function.
Now that BP number should be in the healthy range. That is a concern as well as an indicator of potential health problems. Diet and exercise should be enough to get those under control but I'm not willing to say 'get off your meds' until there's proof you don't need them.
Tom
http://www.modernforager.com/blog/2006/09/19/book-review-the-great-cholesterol-con/
From Gary Taubes book:
1. Dietary fat, whether saturated or not, is not a cause of obesity, heart disease, or any other chronic disease of civilization.
2. The problem is the carbohydrates in the diet, their effect on insulin secretion, and thus the hormonal regulation of homeostasis—the entire harmonic ensemble of the human body. The more easily digestible and refined the carbohydrates, the greater the effect on our health, weight, and well-being.
3. Sugars—sucrose and high-fructose corn syrup specifically—are particularly harmful, probably because the combination of fructose and glucose simultaneously elevates insulin levels while overloading the liver with carbohydrates.
4. Through their direct effect on insulin and blood sugar, refined carbohydrates, starches, and sugars are the dietary cause of coronary heart disease and diabetes. They are the most likely dietary causes of cancer, Alzheimer's disease, and the other chronic diseases of civilization.
More:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/NewYearNewYou/story?id=3654291&page=1
SouthMark
10-06-2008, 14:05
For what it's worth to this discussion. I bike 3,000 to 4,000 miles a year, walk 3 miles twice a day, eat no salt, no sugar, no dairy products. The only meats I eat are grilled chicken or fish occasionally. My cholesterol is 83. I take four different blood pressure meds a day, one of those 3 times a day just to keep my blood pressure down to around 150/80 (was up to 220/108). It is not always a mater of lifestyle and diet. Genetics trumps them every time. It is only because of my lifestyle and the meds that I still have a life-style.
take-a-knee
10-06-2008, 14:50
For what it's worth to this discussion. I bike 3,000 to 4,000 miles a year, walk 3 miles twice a day, eat no salt, no sugar, no dairy products. The only meats I eat are grilled chicken or fish occasionally. My cholesterol is 83. I take four different blood pressure meds a day, one of those 3 times a day just to keep my blood pressure down to around 150/80 (was up to 220/108). It is not always a mater of lifestyle and diet. Genetics trumps them every time. It is only because of my lifestyle and the meds that I still have a life-style.
You need to have your cortisol level checked, that is natural steroid you body produces, an elevated level occurs with a response to stress, which can be psychological. It can even be caused by a food allergy, I suspect this may be your problem. Elevated cortisol will send your BP through the roof. Not one doctor in a hundred will consider a food allergy because that isn't the way they are trained. They are trained to diagnose and treat, IE pills and knives.
Check out the Zone diet (you can get the book used on Amazon for a few bucks) and read up on the Paleolithic diet (veggies and lean meats basically). I'll bet if you eliminate processed foods and cut carbs to Zone-compliant levels, your B/P will drop.
SouthMark
10-06-2008, 15:59
You need to have your cortisol level checked, that is natural steroid you body produces, an elevated level occurs with a response to stress, which can be psychological. It can even be caused by a food allergy, I suspect this may be your problem. Elevated cortisol will send your BP through the roof. Not one doctor in a hundred will consider a food allergy because that isn't the way they are trained. They are trained to diagnose and treat, IE pills and knives.
Check out the Zone diet (you can get the book used on Amazon for a few bucks) and read up on the Paleolithic diet (veggies and lean meats basically). I'll bet if you eliminate processed foods and cut carbs to Zone-compliant levels, your B/P will drop.
Well, I'm sorry but you are wrong in my case. I did not supply you with all of the info. I have an INHERITED severe artery disease. My grandfather and father both had amputations because of it. I have had two fem-pops in my right leg. My left renal artery failed and as kidneys are directly responsible for high blood pressure my left kidney is sending an enzyme to my heart telling it that my blood pressure is too low. I am seeing 5 highly respected physicians at UAB. I can cut carbs and I eat very little processed food (we raise most of our own) and my bp will not drop unless my kidney ceases to create this enzyme.
get off the meds. change what you eat daily, get your heart rate up for at least an hour daily. drugs are the wrong answer.
I've been tempted to follow Lone Wolf's advice. But I hesitate when I remember a friend I saw at a retirees get together a few years ago. He shuffled in, depressed, sat down barely talking. I sat next to him and he told be of his medical problems, and his many medicines.
The next year he was dramatically better, alert, conversational, telling of new adventures. "I've stopped all my medicines," he confessed.
He didn't show up for the third annual get together. He had died a few months earlier.
Weary
Shadowmoss
10-06-2008, 21:51
Thank you for posting your questions. While not all the answers applied to you, I personally have learned a lot. I know that if I don't do something, the next time I go to a doctor they will be suggesting meds for my cholesterol. Well, they have suggested them before, but I refused. So, I am looking at my sugar levels, and starting to cut back there. This thread is the second time lately that this subject has been brought up, and that sugar and other non-meat foods have been suggested as the culprits. My blood pressure is still low, for which I'm grateful.
Wise Old Owl
10-09-2008, 10:07
although some drugs clearly slow us down I suspect I need to do more "stairmaster" like excercises - daily for the P.U.D.'s
Wise Old Owl
10-09-2008, 10:09
Thank you for posting your questions. While not all the answers applied to you, I personally have learned a lot. I know that if I don't do something, the next time I go to a doctor they will be suggesting meds for my cholesterol. Well, they have suggested them before, but I refused. So, I am looking at my sugar levels, and starting to cut back there. This thread is the second time lately that this subject has been brought up, and that sugar and other non-meat foods have been suggested as the culprits. My blood pressure is still low, for which I'm grateful.
This might not apply to you - but I completly forgot the quantity's of sugar & calories of beer and now I am cutting back.
take-a-knee
10-09-2008, 16:11
This might not apply to you - but I completly forgot the quantity's of sugar & calories of beer and now I am cutting back.
Check out the Zone Diet. Nothing wrong with ONE occasional beer at bedtime, eat 2 ounces of turkey with it.