View Full Version : What do you use for winter/very cold?
happycowinca
10-05-2008, 20:04
Im thinking 10* at night, anywhere from 30-mid 40s during the day. Wind + snow + mountains.
What do you wear? What is your sleeping system? Thanks!
Sleep system: Mountain Hardwear Phantom +15 sleeping bag, Thermarest ProLite 3 sleeping pad, Tyvek ground sheet, Silnylon tarp (if necessary), expedition-weight long sleeve shirt, expedition-weight bottoms, expedition-weight socks, wool hat, down jacket (if necessary).
Worn during the day: Shorts, mid-weight long sleeve thermal shirt & short sleeve shirt, wool hat, light gloves.
Jim Adams
10-05-2008, 20:35
Sleeping: Smart wool light wt. underware top and long bottoms, poly pro balaclava, no socks, on a 2" self inflating pad with my 0* down and pertex bag pulled over me as a quilt.
Hiking: Basically same as Phreak except above about 35*, I wear a light hat instead of the wool.
These are all my own preferences as I am shall we say naturally highly insulated.LOL
geek
Sleeping - I sleep cold
- Montbell #0 with fresh clean Smartwool pants & top with down booties & a fleece hat.
- Pacific Outdoor Equipment Hyper High Mountain pad
Hiking
- Smartwool midweight pants & top, convertible pants, dryduck top, wool-fleece hat, gloves
I pull the pant bottoms, dryduck, & hat off when I warm up
Camp - Down jacket & bottoms
With wind and snow, I'd think that a pair of long pants would be a good idea. I wear an old pair of Campmor double layer nylon pants without long johns under them. Blowing snow can be a problem when it melts on your clothing. For a jacket I wear an old Gore-tex one with a lining from Sierra Designs. Often I find the jacket too hot, but I have plenty of venting options. If the snow is not blowing around, I'd rather wear a fleece jacket under a windshell (Marmot Ion). I can always shed the fleece and hike in a long poly top with or without the windshell.
I have a Feathered Friends Great Auk overbag that I use in conjunction with a 1/2" blue foam pad that fits into a sleeve in the bottom. It's good to 5 degrees with long johns and a fleece jacket.
Oh, yes, I sleep in a Hilleberg Akto tent. That alone probably adds 10 degrees of warmth.
Lone Wolf
10-05-2008, 20:41
What is your sleeping system?
system? set up tent, throw in my stuff, get water, climb in tent, rollout bag and pad, get in bag, start making dinner
The daytime temps you mention are pretty much ideal for actual hiking. Should get by fine with a pair of lightweight poly pros with shorts and another shirt over top. If real windy, then add a wind layer, but you won't need much more insulation than that. Don't forget a hat and lightweight gloves if your hands get cold.
Have some more insulation ready for breaks, particularly upper body. If you were comfortable while hiking, strip down to that again before resuming. You don't want to work up a sweat and get your layers damp.
For camp, multiple layers will work best. Heavier long underwear, fleece, primaloft or down jacket of some kind. Down vests are real nice for that extra boost in insulation and are very light and compact. Possibly some insulated pants. The army surplus liners are warm, light, and cheap. They do take up some space tho. Warm balaclava. Make positive that you keep at least one pair of wool socks completely dry for camp use. Don't forget about using your rain gear as a good wind layer, makes a lot of difference.
Your ultimate comfort will come from your sleeping bag and shelter combination. If you are expecting temps down to 10* (would be kinda unusual with daytime temps you mention, but possible, I would want at least a 15* bag, or better yet a 0*. Extra clothing will extend your bag, and some folks advocate that, but I like to reserve most of my extra clothes for those unexpected cold snaps when it can get down to -10* or less. For temps around 0* or lower, I like to have some down booties. Great in camp and also in your bag - toasty feet!! Also, don't forget extra ground insulation. VERY IMPORTANT to your comfort and safety.
Do you have any experience camping/hiking in temps like this? If not I would strongly suggest some practice hikes with easy middle-of-the-night bail out options. Also do some research for tips like eating before bed, exercise before bed without breaking out in a sweat, isometric exercise if you wake up cold, allowing your bag to fluff for an hour or two before bed, hot water bottles in the bag with you, etc. Lots of little tricks out there that you should learn.
Winter camping/hiking is great, but do learn what you are doing. Have fun!!!
kayak karl
10-05-2008, 20:46
Im thinking 10* at night, anywhere from 30-mid 40s during the day. Wind + snow + mountains.
What do you wear? What is your sleeping system? Thanks!
for hammock i will be using Mt. Washington under quilt from JRB and GoLite Adrenaline 0° as a top quilt (made the zipper longer by adding velcro to 2 ft from bottom). have not tested it yet, but both are rated to 0°.
with my tent i used a 20° with liner (adds 10°) and layers of clothes to get to 0°
bigcranky
10-05-2008, 20:52
Here's something I posted on this topic a couple of years ago:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=487795&postcount=16
bigcranky
10-05-2008, 20:54
Let me add the whole thread:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31242
and another one with some good info:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=30761
Slo-go'en
10-05-2008, 21:54
You don't need to wear much while your actually hiking, you generate a lot of heat and you don't want to get too sweaty. Being damp inside can cool you down in a hurry when you take a break. Even down to -20, I just wear a wicking layer, long sleeve polypro type shirt and a gortex jacket. Lots of winter hikers like shorts with long johns, I usually use Dickie work pants. Don't forget knee high gaters and insulated boots!
Of course, you need something really warm to put on when you stop for the day. Your hiking shirts will likely be damp when you change, so put them in a stuff sack and put that in the foot of your sleeping bag so they will be warm when change back the next morning.
"Self inflating" sleeping mats can be a problem when its really cold, as mosture from your breath (you always have to blow these up some) can freeze inside the mat. Two layers of closed cell foam pads are a better bet. And the first thing you do when you get up in the morning is stuff your bag and roll up the mats, don't want these to freeze up on you.
And once your warm and snug in your sack and dinner is eaten, stay there! I made the mistake of getting up and doing some more X-Country sking one fine, full moon lit night. It was gorgous out! By the time I got back, my bag was cold, I was sweaty again and I had used up my dinner calories. Had a rough night after that. It was about -15 that night! At first light, I packed up and skied out.
Tennessee Viking
10-05-2008, 23:21
My experience is to wear thin multiple layers. Forget big coats, except for the final layer. On my freezing temp hikes (above 0), I usually were my PolarMax thermals for the base, athletic pants & long sleeve sports shirt, then a north face jacket. Then a winter mask. I also carry a small jar of vaseline to keep my skin from cracking and freezing.
When I was living in Iowa (near -20) and was working in the blizzards, I added wicking wear in between my thermals and coat/sweats sometimes my regular wicking wear (if its really cold). Lots of hand warmers.
If you don't mind cross dressing, you can start out with pantyhose leggings.
Im thinking 10* at night, anywhere from 30-mid 40s during the day. Wind + snow + mountains.
What do you wear? What is your sleeping system? Thanks!
warm wife, flannel or fleece bottoms, t-shirt, and a 4" thick LL Bean down comforter at night. fireplace, jeans, quilted plaid shirt, some 'wicked good' fleece booties, and the couch for napping during the day.
if you have kids, they're good for bringing in more firewood while you stay inside where it's warm, day or night. builds character. :D
happycowinca
10-06-2008, 00:18
Thanks for all the replies!
Those temperatures arent exact. Im just trying to give a ball park figure (thats about warmest it will get, and (hopefully!) the coldest it will get).
When I had said sleeping system, I had meant what type/do you use: sleeping bag, over bag, bivy, inflatable pad, CC pad, bag liners, etc.
What I am thinking of getting/using (though this is no way final)
Clothing:
Underarmor wicking shirt. Light fleece jacket. UL Montbell Down Jacket. Frogg Toggs. Silk balaclava. VERY toasty wool cap/beanie. underarmor shorts (to knee). I havent decided on pants, maybe something fleece?
Ill be heading over to REI sometime soon to check out their on sale stuff.
For Sleeping: A tarptent. WM Highlite. This very nice over bag i have (i think its 20*) and silk liner. Will this be good enough?
One question. How many of you wear hiking boots for winter? Does anyone wear trail runners, are are they too cold?
I learned on my first AT section hike, to prepare for 10* colder than the forecast, but I sleep cold. You started out saying the lows were about 10*, and you are planning on a 20* bag. You are already 10* on the wrong side of your bag's rating. What are you gonna do if you see -0*?
The Solemates
10-06-2008, 09:19
Im thinking 10* at night, anywhere from 30-mid 40s during the day. Wind + snow + mountains.
What do you wear? What is your sleeping system? Thanks!
to me, i wouldnt necessarily consider 10F cold, but i would take my 5-degree bag, my tent, a full-length z-rest, and sleep in the clothes I hiked in. and always wear a hat to bed.
bigcranky
10-06-2008, 12:40
Thanks for all the replies!
Those temperatures arent exact. Im just trying to give a ball park figure (thats about warmest it will get, and (hopefully!) the coldest it will get).
When I had said sleeping system, I had meant what type/do you use: sleeping bag, over bag, bivy, inflatable pad, CC pad, bag liners, etc.
OK. I would use my 5-F bag, my homemade UL bivy, a Thermarest Prolite 4 pad, and a 6x10 foot silnylon tarp if it were raining or snowing. (Or just stay in a shelter.)
Inside I would wear my camp/sleep clothes -- a microfleece zip tee, Powerstretch tights, wool socks, and a fleece balaclava. If it's down in the single digits, I would drape my down jacket over my torso for added insulation. My hiking clothes are inside the bag so they dry a little and stay warm.
On trail runners -- I switch to Goretex trail runners in winter. With gaiters they are good in any snow that I'm willing to hike in. (Note that I hike in the South, so my definition of "winter" is different from someone in, say, New Hampshire.)
Bearpaw88
10-06-2008, 14:38
Some things to keep in mind when sleeping in freezing temps and below.
Where a hat to sleep
Don't put your face (mouth) in your bag where moisture will build up and make you colder. Keep at least your mouth out of your bag. If necessary throw a bandana over your face/mouth if your face is cold.
Pee. Don't lay there trying to hold it in it will only make you colder. Get up go and get back in your bag.
These are the most useful things ever told to me about camping in freezing weather.
Make sure you close (not necessarily zip) your sleeping bag back up if you get up to go pee. You might opt for a WELL MARKED :p "Pee bottle" to use in your tent, especially if there's a blizzard raging out there. Make sure that you securely close the bottle and bring it back into the bag with you. Not only will it keep you a little warmer, it's not fun trying to get frozen pee out of a bottle!!!!
Bearpaw88
10-06-2008, 17:38
The pee bottle tend to be a problem for women....
Could always carry a funnel :eek:
smokymtnsteve
10-06-2008, 17:50
10 is not cold minus 40 is cold
Pee bottle is essential. I like a hooded sweatshirt or garment. It keeps my head warmer than a hat. I use a fleece blanket as well as a 32 degree bag. I use a pad and a large piece of foam between me and the tent floor. I find that my body never gets cold.
The Solemates
10-07-2008, 10:58
10 is not cold minus 40 is cold
so minus 25 isnt cold?
The pee bottle tend to be a problem for women....
Could always carry a funnel :eek:
Try this, sold for general aviation:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=298
Chenango
10-07-2008, 12:53
I love my UnderArmor compression long underwear. Keeps me warm on even the coldest nights. During the day I sometimes wear the long johns under my nlyon pants, especially if the wind is blowing hard and it is snowing. Also, I frequently set up my tent in a shelter ... usually plenty of room when it gets down below the teens in temperature.
Chenango
10-07-2008, 12:54
Also, if I am expecting real cold weather, I bring a fleese sleeping bag to put over my down bag.
I find whatever works for 30F wet conditions is usually enough for 0F dry conditions, but you have to have a way to dry stuff out, and if there is a risk of it dropping further below 0F then you really have to watch out for that as its a totally different ball game. I think its always important to check the weather before you go, but if out for more than a couple of days you should really be prepared for the worst that month has to offer, based on climate data rather than weather reports. Snow can slow you down also, so building multiple exit points into your plan can make for a safer adventure while still allowing you to take as much time and distance as the weather allows. I like to wear my wool layers all the time and keep my synthetic and wind layers packed most of the time. I don't use down clothing, but I think a down bag is a good idea. If I was going Alpine or Arctic I would include some down clothing.
smokymtnsteve
10-09-2008, 18:07
so minus 25 isnt cold?
nope just a normal winter day:sun
It all depends on your perspective
- yours is 64.82 latitude
- mine is 33.69 latitude
Record Low Temps
Alaska -80 Jan. 23, 1971
Georgia -17 Jan. 27, 1940
Maine -48 Jan. 19, 1925
North Carolina -34 Jan. 21, 1985
smokymtnsteve
10-09-2008, 18:42
yes but be careful the outhouse door doesn't freeze shut...esp if you are inside;)
take-a-knee
10-09-2008, 19:10
10 is not cold minus 40 is cold
What temp is it when you can feel the moisture freeze on the hairs inside your nose? IIRC it was around -20F?
aaroniguana
10-09-2008, 19:14
Felt that in the U.P, many, many mornings.
smokymtnsteve
10-09-2008, 19:16
who has nose hair??
I always were a cowl that I made that is two layers of fleece with nylon inbetween...
well when it is 20 below or colder that is.
NorthCountryWoods
10-17-2008, 13:31
Where is the happy cow going to be running into these conditions? Different areas make for different gear.
Winter in the arid areas and you could get away with warm hikers and heavy fleece and a warm bag.
Lots of snow and ice in the mountains and I'd recommend a good mountaineering boot with crampons and weather proof shells..
Damp coastal conditions and you want to avoid the down and prepare for more heavy snow.
It all depends.
FSO for that cold, at night:
Tights or panty hose, (yea, go ahead & laugh, I would) Non cotton tee shirt.
Shorts, long sleever underarmor undershirt.
Wool kilt (It's heavier / thicker than my acrilic), fleece vest.
Nylon vest, wool watch hat, fingerless neoprene gloves.
Under me:
Military surplus CCF pad (a bit denser than the civilian ones, also heavier)
Hammock
Patomic underquilt
Over me:
Ray Way Quilt with alpine upgrade.
Around me:
Nylon Hammock sock
Over it all:
Sil Nylon tarp (13.5' X 10') THANKS BRIAN OF OES!!
My stratagy is to hang in a sheltered area, not to low to avoid trapped cold air, & not to hight to avoid high winds. AND: Always always always orient my shelter to avoid the prevaling wind.
Like Lone Wolf; I set up my shelter, throw in my stuff, get water, rollout quilt & pad, climb in hammock, cover over & start making dinner!
A hot meal goes a long way toward keeping you warm at night.
WILLIAM HAYES
10-17-2008, 14:21
I sleep in a HH with Jacks R'Better undercover quilt,rain cover and overquilt If it gets cold I sleep in an Ibex lite weight zip LS shirt and pants and a possum down skull cap .if need be I can also extend my comfort range with a montbell thermawrap jacket and gloves never been cold with this system Hillbilly
Bearpaw88
10-17-2008, 17:15
Try this, sold for general aviation:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&did=19&product_id=298
Hmmm, sounds good but I'll pass unless I am camping in -20 weather. :D
Mrs Baggins
10-17-2008, 18:31
Patagonia down jacket, REI Subkilo Plus -10 degree bag, smartwool base layers, merino wool socks, wool hat, OR windstopper gloves, BA insulated air core mat with Thermarest Z pad on top.
so minus 25 isnt cold?
Minus 25 is a serious lack of heat. Two puffs of breeze, and you have issues.
It's not the cold. It's the lack of heat. :D
I use wool on the hike & down in camp.
10 is not cold minus 40 is cold
I believe you Smoky, though the lowest I've experienced was minus 35 -- on my first winter backpack, no less, after two decades of messing around with summer backpacking.
BTW, I was wearing cotton underclothes, a cotton hunting jacket, and a cotton pull over jacket/wind breaker from LL Bean. They claimed it was the same parka LL loved so much, made from long cotton fibers that swelled with the first drops of rain, making it waterproof. The ads lied, but I would buy another were they still sold.
Weary
mkmangold
10-17-2008, 23:19
You might find these useful:
1. Disposable hand-warmers for hands and feet at night: allowed me to use a 35deg bag and liner when it got to 7 degrees F;
2. I love bamboo underwear;
3. Trapper hat: http://www.furhatworld.com/trapper-hats-c-42_44.html ;
4. We don't need no stinkin' urinals: http://www.biorelief.com/male-external-catheters.html