ex officio buzz off hat

[wilconow]

they say it will keep bugs away from your face.

i love ex officio's clothes but this seems like a ridiculous claim.

what do you think??


ex officio buzz off hat (http://www.exofficio.com/store/product_choice.asp?pf_id=5016m&feature_id=&dir_id=406&group_id=520&cat_id=312&subcat_id=1&shop_id=)

[gravityman]

You can just buy your own wash-in treatment and wash it into all your clothing and hat. http://www.permethrin-repellent.com/

Just don't breath it in!

Gravity man

[wilconow]

You can just buy your own wash-in treatment and wash it into all your clothing and hat. http://www.permethrin-repellent.com/

Just don't breath it in!

Gravity man


i know next to nothing about this but..

the link you gave says "In conjunction with Deet skin repellents"----
the exofficio stuff says you don't need to put anything on your skin.

thats where they start to lose me..

[gravityman]

Ex-officio is using permethrin. They are just overstating how strong it is.

But it will help...

Come on. Even with deet I am pestered by them.

I actually have only used deet to date. I plan on using the permethrin for our upcoming long trail and next years thru (although we will do that on trial). I don't want lymes kicking us off!

Oh, and it is spray-on, not wash in... sorry about that...

Gravity man

[squidlyman]

Any thoughts on this... :-?



Why buy a pre-packaged "wash in" product (for example: https://www.travmed.com/scripts/catalog.epl?product_id=321&category_id=44&moveit=3 (https://www.travmed.com/scripts/catalog.epl?product_id=321&category_id=44&moveit=3)

and instead buy a professional grade Permethrin at 36% http://kill-fireants.com/mcart/index.cgi?PID=IT326&code=13 and diluting it to make your own "wash in" product? :confused:

It seems a whole lot cheaper... 'specially if you take into consideration the volume of treatment you'd have after you dilute the 36% down to the 0.5% treatment that most of these "wash in" treatments are. :banana
BUT, I'm not willing to just yet w/o input, since a single quart costs $50. I thought I'd see if anyone else has tried this before I experiment...

(pardon the smilies and such... I just had to throw them in since they make it so handy with this interface! :rolleyes: )

[email protected]

[wspartykid]

I've heard that if you get you mind set right the bugs will leave you alone. I'd rather be able to ignore them instead of using man made chemicals or plant poisons. Is it true for anybody? I think it would be allot better and cheaper to just ignore them. What do yall think?

[Blue Jay]

I've heard that if you get you mind set right the bugs will leave you alone. I'd rather be able to ignore them instead of using man made chemicals or plant poisons. Is it true for anybody? I think it would be allot better and cheaper to just ignore them. What do yall think?

Unless you're a Zen Master, it is very hard to just ignore them. What I do is after my body, legs and feet are "broken in" (two weeks), I hike until I am totally exhausted. When I am soooo tired I am almost asleep on my feet, I fall asleep out in the open. I try to time this in a buggy (nontick or blackfly) area. You wake up covered in bugs. After a few thousand bites they doesn't itch anymore. Your body has adapted to the chemicals. This is how we evolved, DEET and other Bioweapons are recent additions. Oh, make sure you pull all the ticks off you.

[Youngblood]

Any thoughts on this... :-?



Why buy a pre-packaged "wash in" product (for example: https://www.travmed.com/scripts/catalog.epl?product_id=321&category_id=44&moveit=3 (https://www.travmed.com/scripts/catalog.epl?product_id=321&category_id=44&moveit=3)

and instead buy a professional grade Permethrin at 36% http://kill-fireants.com/mcart/index.cgi?PID=IT326&code=13 and diluting it to make your own "wash in" product? :confused:

It seems a whole lot cheaper... 'specially if you take into consideration the volume of treatment you'd have after you dilute the 36% down to the 0.5% treatment that most of these "wash in" treatments are. :banana
BUT, I'm not willing to just yet w/o input, since a single quart costs $50. I thought I'd see if anyone else has tried this before I experiment...

(pardon the smilies and such... I just had to throw them in since they make it so handy with this interface! :rolleyes: )

[email protected]

Permethrin is commonly used as a contact insecticide and is available in a 2.5% concentation in many products. I have a 1 qt bottle of "Real-Kill Multi-Purpose Concentrate Lawn & Garden Insect Killer" that I paid around $10 for last year. I use it in a special sprayer that attaches to a garden hose and further dilutes it to use in the yard when I get 'feed up enough' with mosquitos. I dilute it to 0.5% in a spray bottle to use as a contact insecticide or to treat my hiking stuff. I believe that the spray-on 0.5% solutions on clothing lasts for a couple of weeks and/or a couple of washings. I have read of soak-in treatments that use a heavier concentration and are suppose to last for months instead of weeks, but I have never tried them. I don't know what this patented process that Ex-Officio is, but I figure that since it uses permethrin that it probably has a useful life that is measured in months... I didn't see any claims about useful life on their web site.

Permethrin helps keep insects off of your gear and clothing, DEET helps keep them off your skin. (I get real tired of the smell of DEET after a few days and you have to be careful of what you get it on... don't let it get on your watch crystal for instance.) 'Insect proof' clothing and/or gear keeps them off of you but also keeps you warmer, unfortunely, in bug season warmer usually means hotter.

Youngblood

[gravityman]

Any thoughts on this... :-?



Why buy a pre-packaged "wash in" product (for example: https://www.travmed.com/scripts/catalog.epl?product_id=321&category_id=44&moveit=3 (https://www.travmed.com/scripts/catalog.epl?product_id=321&category_id=44&moveit=3)

and instead buy a professional grade Permethrin at 36% http://kill-fireants.com/mcart/index.cgi?PID=IT326&code=13 and diluting it to make your own "wash in" product? :confused:



Because of fancy chemistry. The permethrin is specially altered to be able to stick to the clothing thru multiple washes. That and the fact that it is pretty nasty stuff would make me shy away from trying to "guess" what I am doing without some good knowledge :

The insecticide permethrin (in the synthetic pyrethroid family) is widely used on cotton, wheat, corn, alfalfa, and other crops. In addition, over 100 million applications are made annually in and around U.S. homes.

Permethrin, like all synthetic pyrethroids, is a neurotoxin. Symptoms include tremors, incoordination, elevated body temperature, increased aggressive behavior, and disruption of learning. Laboratory tests suggest that permethrin is more acutely toxic to children than to adults.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has classified permethrin as a carcinogen because it causes lung tumors in female mice and liver tumors in mice of both sexes. Permethrin inhibits the activity of the immune system in laboratory tests, and also binds to the receptors for a male sex hormone. It causes chromosome aberrations in human and hamster cells.

Permethrin is toxic to honey bees and other beneficial insects, fish, aquatic insects, crayfish, and shrimp. For many species, concentrations of less than one part per billion are lethal. Permethrin causes deformities and other developmental problems in tadpoles, and reduces the number of oxygen-carrying cells in the blood of birds.

Permethrin has been found in streams and rivers throughout the United States. It is also routinely found on produce, particularly spinach, tomatoes, celery, lettuce, and peaches.

A wide variety of insects have developed resistance to permethrin. High levels of resistance have been documented in cockroaches, head lice, and tobacco budworm.

[Bear Magnet]

I work part time at Hudson Trail Outfitters in the DC area, and have heard two presentations by the Ex Offcio Rep on EO’s Buzz Off products.



The products (hats, bandannas, shirts, shorts, pants, and socks) have permethrin bonded to them in the manufacturing process; which is unlike the military and other users of permethrin, who spray it onto clothing.



Buzz Off protects covered areas against a large assortment of insects. In addition, Buzz Off claims to be able to protect nearby areas of uncovered skin-a shortsleeve shirt would protect down to the wrist (depending on bug intensity). A Buzz Off hat would provide head protection, but would work better with a Buzz Off shirt/bandanna.



The rep said tests indicated that Buzz Off products protected individuals better than DEET alone, although not as well as DEET and Buzz Off.



Working from memory:



Unprotected man in enclosed mosquito filled area: 2,000 bites

Man with DEET: 200 bites

Man with Buzz Off: 20 bites

Man with Buzz Off and DEET: 2 bites



Buzz Off is guaranteed to be at 100 percent of its effectiveness for 25 industrial washes, after which the breakdown in the fabric leads to a gradual degradation of the product’s effectiveness.



It has been approved by the federal EPA and the EPAs of the 50 states.



That being said, two EPA employees who were in my store expressed concerns with the permethrin and said that eventually everything gets EPA approval. They did say it would be better than DEET. I’m not sure how to reconcile the two statements.



The product lines are designed for a wide variety of people-fly fisherman (no DEET on line/leaders/flies), gardeners, hikers, walkers, ect.



I have not tried any personally, and have heard no customer reports from the field. A fieldtester who came to one of the presentations the rep gave spoke highly of it. But then that was his job.



Bear Magnet

[Frosty]

I've heard that if you get you mind set right the bugs will leave you alone. I'd rather be able to ignore them instead of using man made chemicals or plant poisons. Is it true for anybody? I think it would be allot better and cheaper to just ignore them. What do yall think?
You can ignore black flies. The trick is getting them to ignore you. Of course it is cheaper to not buy a bug repellent product. Better is another story. I guess it's better if you enjoy painful bites that you know will be itchy as all hell later on.

When black flies are thick, the only thing that has kept them off my face (and out of my ears, nose and mouth) is a bug net hung over a baseball cap. Even then I sprayed the net with deet.

[squidlyman]

Permethrin is commonly used as a contact insecticide and is available in a 2.5% concentation in many products. I have a 1 qt bottle of "Real-Kill Multi-Purpose Concentrate Lawn & Garden Insect Killer" that I paid around $10 for last year. I use it in a special sprayer that attaches to a garden hose and further dilutes it to use in the yard when I get 'feed up enough' with mosquitos. I dilute it to 0.5% in a spray bottle to use as a contact insecticide or to treat my hiking stuff. I believe that the spray-on 0.5% solutions on clothing lasts for a couple of weeks and/or a couple of washings. I have read of soak-in treatments that use a heavier concentration and are suppose to last for months instead of weeks, but I have never tried them. I don't know what this patented process that Ex-Officio is, but I figure that since it uses permethrin that it probably has a useful life that is measured in months... I didn't see any claims about useful life on their web site.

Youngblood
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/icons/icon3.gif Thanks Youngblood (and others) for comments. I went ahead and got the "quart sized stuff" from Home Depot (2.5% solution) for $9. I'll dilute it with a 1:3 ratio, which should give me something just around .625% (discounting random acts of splashing), and spray it on my clothes. If I have any "buggy feedback" on this... I'll post again.

-squidlyman

[alalskaman]

I have become a believer in permethrin - last summer here in mosquito-ey alaska, had a couple of canoe trips, clothing sprayed at home, very modest amounts of sawyer's time release deet, and no bites at all. Amazing. Don't yet know what it would do for no-seeums, white sox, whatever. Don't have blackflies here, mercifully. Bill