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attroll
10-17-2002, 00:21
When you come to stop for the night at a shelter. Where do you put up for the night?

chris
10-17-2002, 08:40
Why not have the option: Stay at the shelter regardless of company? Maybe I would be the only person to vote for that one.

chief
10-29-2002, 20:23
i'm with you on that one, chris.

Doctari
11-27-2003, 19:20
Why not have the option: Stay at the shelter regardless of company? Maybe I would be the only person to vote for that one.

I would have voted for that. But for the fact that I snore lots and loud :D
So, I sleep at the nest avalable tent site, just out of courtesy to others.

Doctari.

Crash
11-27-2003, 23:27
It is determined by the company at the shelter if I will stay anywhere near there. If there are partiers or large groups -NO WAY! Snorers are nothing compared to partiers. The partiers ruin it for all of us.

Jaybird
01-23-2004, 11:22
i agree CRASH!

party-hikers can turn a night into the "night from hell!"

i usually stay in shelters if they aren't overflowing....but always taking a tent....i have the option to tent close-by. (as Jigsaw & I did on our first night on the trail last year April 22 2003,....Standing Indian shelter was packed...so we tented out back along with a few more). ;)

i enjoy meeting "interesting" people on the trail...its part of the trail experience...but i can do without loud, obnoxious party-hikers.





see ya'll out there in 2004!

steve hiker
01-23-2004, 11:42
There's nothing better than staying at a shelter with a bunch of other hikers and lighting up some good pot! Boy Scouts though, I can do without those.

Peaks
01-23-2004, 19:44
There's nothing better than staying at a shelter with a bunch of other hikers and lighting up some good pot! Boy Scouts though, I can do without those.

Scouts usually come with extra food. Thru-hikers are more than willing to share their hospitality with them.

steve hiker
01-23-2004, 20:41
I don't like Scouts because of their littering and keeping you up past midnight with their screaming.

okpik
01-23-2004, 20:52
I don't like Scouts because of their littering and keeping you up past midnight with their screaming.

Generalizing and saying that all scouts are like that is not fair to the boys who are not screaming and practice LNT

BSA all the way

One Leg
01-30-2004, 10:21
Generalizing and saying that all scouts are like that is not fair to the boys who are not screaming and practice LNT

BSA all the way





Yeah, kind of like saying that folks who smoke pot are all like Cheech & Chong :banana :dance (Sorry, absolutely could not resist....I repent....)

deeddawg
01-30-2004, 12:54
I don't like Scouts because of their littering and keeping you up past midnight with their screaming.

The youths in Scouting are a reflection of their leaders -- they will do what the leaders allow, and their knowledge/skill in the outdoors is derived from what they are taught by their leaders.

Knowledgeable adult leaders are difficult to come by and most of the volunteers make due as best they can, seeking training and knowledge -- but sadly knowledgeable trainers are also difficult to come by and have only just so much time to donate. And thus you end up with troops who are not as LNT conscious or as knowledgeable of proper trail etiquette as one might wish.

Pothead: What have you done lately to encourage and teach proper outdoors/trail etiquette and skills to youth? What have you done (ever) to help teach the volunteer leaders so that they might pass on that knowledge to the boys?

Perhaps instead of sitting there complainging, you ought to get involved. You can make a difference if you choose to do so, a difference which will have a positive impact on many people's lives.

Sadly though, too many people find it easier to just sit back and complain.

Crash
01-30-2004, 22:59
What have you done lately to encourage and teach proper outdoors/trail etiquette and skills to youth? What have you done (ever) to help teach the volunteer leaders so that they might pass on that knowledge to the boys?
you ought to get involved. You can make a difference if you choose to do so, a difference which will have a positive impact on many people's lives.
.
I agree.
Actually, its hard to 'volunteer' to help in scouts or other youth groups unless you have a child in it. Most will treat you like m. jaxson, unfortunately. As a former Eagle Scout and Explorer, I would like to assist but there are a lot of parents/leaders that I probably will call division of youth and family services to have locked up.

"the apple does not fall far from the tree". So we need to teach the parents and leaders first. Too many youth groups do not make sure the leaders are really trained.

deeddawg
02-02-2004, 16:21
I agree.
Actually, its hard to 'volunteer' to help in scouts or other youth groups unless you have a child in it. Most will treat you like m. jaxson, unfortunately.Perhaps -- certainly any Council would more heavily scrutinize any individual without kids currently or previously in Scouting and who have no Scouting background of their own. It may be that some Councils may even blow off offers from such people -- which would be truly sad.

Yet I think that a person who truly wants to help can find a place to do so -- for one thing the leaders need training, and I would be truly surprised if any Council or District Training Commissioner would turn down a knowledgable person's offer to assist with Leader training exercises.

Lilred
02-02-2004, 17:57
It may be that some Councils may even blow off offers from such people -- which would be truly sad.


No, it would not be sad at all. It would be very wise. As a mother, I would want Councils to check the background very carefully. Someone with no children, no background with scouts, not a previous scout should, and I hope would, come under diligent scrutiny.

grrickar
09-03-2004, 01:41
Crash, I too am and Eagle Scout, with a daughter only so I have been reluctant to get back into Scouting to help. I have friends who sons are in Scout and they have threatened to recruit me for their troop.

Scouting does truly build character, and teaches a lot of life's lessons. I learned that together we culd accomplish things we would have never thought possible. The worst trips we had were the ones we all laugh about when we get together now. Some kids would never make it into the woods if it weren't for Scouts.

eyahiker
09-03-2004, 02:05
Go BSA! they voted to keep their morals and keep their consitutional rights when it came to their scout leaders - yeah! And look, all that funding didn't just disappear others stepped up to the plate in many ways! It's always good to stand up for what's right and good, it comes back to you :clap Just ilke the nice things BS do for folks and communities. Careful BSA folks, they'll bash you on here so fast it isn't funny, especially if you stand for something positive or decent.

As for keeping others up late.......................well. Can happen with anybody and is just rude no matter who's doing it. Especially folks who loudly wander in well past dark and make no attempt to settle in quietly.

Blue Jay
09-03-2004, 07:55
I got to hand it to you Eya, no one but you could turn a sweet post about scouting to moralistic nastyness.

peter_pan
09-03-2004, 08:20
Hammocks are way more comfortable. Can be hung virtually anywhere. are definiately least of the LNT options....No snorers....no parties....no meeces...no smoke... Ahhhh the peace of getting away and outdoors.

God bless the BSA.....30+ years a scout or scouter....many of us got our start outdoors courtesy of Baden Powell.... thanks to all the volenteers that make BSA work.

kevin
09-03-2004, 18:49
Getting back to the original question, my option isn't on there. I found it nice to stay in the shelter area, but not the shelter. My tent got me a little personal space and night without any mice or bugs, but being next to the shelter there was a usually a good water source and a reasonable chance of finding someone to chat with over dinner.

grrickar
09-04-2004, 11:22
The youths in Scouting are a reflection of their leaders -- they will do what the leaders allow, and their knowledge/skill in the outdoors is derived from what they are taught by their leaders.

Good statement. The Scouts was a way for me and my father to connect (I came along late in his life, 11 years after his last child) so my dad was much older and wasn't into camping and such as much. Scouts allowed me many opportunities, from learning how to be a man to taking a leadership course at Philmont. I hiked, camped, rapelled and canoed more in those few years that I have in all the years since.

Teaching kids to me is the most important job there is, period. Thank God there are teachers who are willing to work with kids, despite the fact they are not getting paid much for it.

I spoke with a hiking pal of mine last night and he has two sons. I explained to him that I would like to help out the Scouts again, but that I felt weird approaching them since I did not have a son (I have one daughter, and the wife and I decided we weren't going to have more kids). He explained that their troop had just lost 3 adult leaders, and that they really would be happy to have me help, and I plan to.

So for those of you without sons in Scouts, don't be reluctant to ask your friends who have sons in the Scouts if you can help out. As an Eagle Scout, I think it is my obligation to try and help others earn their rank.

Flash Hand
09-04-2004, 18:35
its nice to wake up in the morning with dry sleeping bags. It sucks that winds keep ramming the tent, make me think its bears and puddle created on the floor during downpours.

I have no problem with snorers or hikers talking to themsleves all night at any shelters.... :banana (poor on One Leg at Plumorchard Gap Shelter)

Flash Hand :jump

Mushroom 96
05-27-2005, 11:23
I prefer staying in shelters as long as they aren't full. I met a lot of neat people in them. Also i carry a bivy to keep bugs at bay.

Boy Scouts can be both bad and good on the trail, it depends alot on their Leaders I think. Met alot of nice scouts (boy and girl scouts) that i enjoyed telling my tails of adventure too. They had extra food and i was happy to share it. Also I ran into one troop with Letitbe that almost turned into a fight with the troop leaders due to their dog almost attacking us. They where rude, littering and obnoxoius (this included the boys). But i also met hikers who were just as bad at shelters.

neo
05-27-2005, 11:34
When you come to stop for the night at a shelter. Where do you put up for the night?
it depends,i love my hammock,but i average 20 to 25 miles a day so that is a big factor for me,i finish hiking late at nite sometimes so i avoid shelters to keep from waking people up at nite,plus i love my privacy.shelter are handy when the weather sucks,but thats when they are full,happy trails to all were every ya stay:cool: neo

JoeHiker
05-27-2005, 12:07
Pothead: What have you done lately to encourage and teach proper outdoors/trail etiquette and skills to youth? What have you done (ever) to help teach the volunteer leaders so that they might pass on that knowledge to the boys?

Perhaps instead of sitting there complainging, you ought to get involved. You can make a difference if you choose to do so, a difference which will have a positive impact on many people's lives.

Sadly though, too many people find it easier to just sit back and complain.Sadly though some people find it easier to come up with ridiculous points like this call bad behavior for what it is.

How exactly does complaining about rowdy behavior by scouts in a shelter obligate someone to get involved with scouts and teach kids how to behave properly? If someone cuts me off in traffic tomorrow, am I obligated to go teach a driving class before I can complain? Maybe he hikes to get away from behavior like that.

Regardless of the cause of any bad experiences he might have had, to scold him for complaining about with, "Why aren't you out there teaching them?" is ridiculous.

minnesotasmith
05-27-2005, 13:57
IMO Boy Scouts are generally fine, more a net plus to have around than a net minus. They are high-spirited and energetic, yes, but they are good-natured fellow lovers of the outdoors, and often likely future distance hikers. I got my start with hiking as a Scout, and owe Scouting much that I will repay one day as an adult leader (once I have kids of my own). A little noise is worth having them around, even if they don't give you any food.

FWIW, there were Scouts in one of the shelters I stayed at on my recent GA AT section hike, and they were polite and a pleasure to be around.

Eyahiker is IMO exactly correct on the Scouts and morality. Scouting is part of the (sadly shrinking) side of what is good and moral in this country. When someone is against Scouting in general, it says far more (of an uncomplimentary nature) about that person than it does about the Scouts.

fiddlehead
06-10-2005, 00:06
Although i probably wouldn't stay in a shelter if there where boy scouts there, i like to see them out there. It is showing kids what's important in life. I don't need to stay in a shelter. Let them have a little bit easier experience in the woods if they want to use the shelter. When i was 13 and the Twin Pine Shelters were still in place near where Eagles Nest Shelter in PA know stands, I had some great memories from there. Not only in my camping and hiking experiences, but in the people i met there. It may have been my 1st experiences with people from out of the area and i was fascinated to have such meetings.
The boy scouts are out there for the right reasons, they're just a bit immature at times going through a learning process.
Since i started thru-hiking, i've had some of my most memorable conversations with strangers who i've met in shelters.
On the other hand, i have been thinking about starting a poll on this website to see who prefers that all the shelters be ripped down (like they do out west), which would make your AT experience much more of a wilderness experience.

Keep an open mind! fh

minnesotasmith
06-10-2005, 12:11
Fiddlehead, it rains too much in the Eastern U.S. for that to be a reasonable idea. Now, relocating as many shelters as possible to be a mile or more away from roads, I'm all for that. The Gooch Mtn. shelter, for example, was moved a mile west, even though its distance from shelters in either direction is a little less convenient IMO (too close to the one to the west, too far from the one to the east).

Lone Wolf
06-10-2005, 12:23
Yup. Rip em down.

bulldog49
06-10-2005, 15:48
Yup. Rip em down.

I think shelters should be removed as well.

Footslogger
06-10-2005, 15:58
I was actually thinking of building one in my back yard here in Laramie ...even stocking it with mice and spiders. Then when hikers pass through on their way to the PCT and CDT they'd feel right at home.

Just kiddin ...but it would be a funny sight !!

'Slogger

Alligator
06-10-2005, 16:03
I was actually thinking of building one in my back yard here in Laramie ...even stocking it with mice and spiders. Then when hikers pass through on their way to the PCT and CDT they'd feel right at home.

Just kiddin ...but it would be a funny sight !!

'Slogger
I'll send you a tape of my snoring for added effect.

Footslogger
06-10-2005, 16:17
I'll send you a tape of my snoring for added effect.===========================
Thanks but don't need it ...you haven't heard BadAss Turtle and me yet (but don't tell her I said that !!)

'Slogger

Mags
06-10-2005, 16:40
Fiddlehead, it rains too much in the Eastern U.S. for that to be a reasonable idea. Now, relocating as many shelters as possible to be a mile or more away from roads, I'm all for that. The Gooch Mtn. shelter, for example, was moved a mile west, even though its distance from shelters in either direction is a little less convenient IMO (too close to the one to the west, too far from the one to the east).


Nonsenes. That is what a tent or tarp is for.

Ripping down all the shelters would be nice, but not very do-able.

What I'd like to say is more of staus quo. Maintain the ones already built rathern that build these new huge, swanky shelters. Some of these new shelters look like they could double as homes!!!

fiddlehead
06-10-2005, 23:59
Fiddlehead, it rains too much in the Eastern U.S. for that to be a reasonable idea. Now, relocating as many shelters as possible to be a mile or more away from roads, I'm all for that. The Gooch Mtn. shelter, for example, was moved a mile west, even though its distance from shelters in either direction is a little less convenient IMO (too close to the one to the west, too far from the one to the east).

I know that it rains a lot, that's why i am living in thailand instead of PA now.
It also rains a lot in Wash. state and they have one or two shelters on the PCT in that state. But it's a big controversy (of course, what isn't)
I know that the AT has a personality and it includes shelters which help the social aspect of this great trail. It's just that if you really want to learn backpacking, you need to lose this security blanket, eventually. I remember reading that Wingfoot once said that completing an AT thru-hike puts you in the top 1 percent of hikers all over the world. I can't agree with that because of the shelters, lack of exposed snow travelled routes, and plentyful roads and water.
But on the other hand, the AT wouldn't be what it is without the shelters. I mean what would we bitch about besides the snoring, dogs waking us up, over/under crowded sleeping conditions, mice, who got there first?, changing clothes in front of strangers, farting, shelter design, registers every 7 miles (of course now that there's cell phones out there, the registers aren't quite as important in knowing where your friends are), and i'm sure there's lots more complaints that originate from shelters. Sounds like a whole new thread could be made here on this but perhaps it's already been done??? fh

Mountain Hippie
06-11-2005, 00:37
I prefer to sleep in my hammock so I don't stay in a shelter. Whether or not I stay near one depends on whether I am near one when I decide to stop for the day.

Buckingham
08-19-2005, 15:05
Now that I have my Hennessy, shelters are a thing of the past.:banana

neo
08-19-2005, 15:14
Now that I have my Hennessy, shelters are a thing of the past.:banana
happy hammock hanging to ya:) ,shelters suck:cool: neo

kyhipo
08-19-2005, 16:29
i like to stay when i feel like it :D ,i generally stay in my tent nowadays unless its pouring out:eek: ky

Ratbert
08-19-2005, 19:43
The shelter experience certainly seems to cement the communal aspect of an AT hike. I always hike solo, so while I prefer camping alone, there are times when I like to sit around the fire jawing with others.

Interesting concept regarding tearing down the shelters. I wonder what sort of drop in hiker numbers would you see? I'm guessing that a fair % would not step foot on the trail for an overniter, much less a thru-hike attempt, without shelters. Remove the shelters and you might cut the number of folks out on the trail in half.

But, I think you'd also see more negative environmental impact. At least with the shelters, that impact is more or less confined to the shelter area (not always, I know). Without them, we might have 2200 miles of continuous fire rings and tent sites. Not to mention the profusion of tp blooms without the privies.

I like dropping over the edge of a ridge and camping out of sight of the trail and others. That's where my new hammock comes into play!

Frosty
08-19-2005, 20:53
I agree.
Actually, its hard to 'volunteer' to help in scouts or other youth groups unless you have a child in it. True, but a good idea nevertheless. If someone wants to help the scouts there are jobs available that do not involve the scouts themselves. There are a lot of weird-os out there, and the best way to keep them out is only allow parents of scouters to help out.

Biggest problem I had as a scoutmaster was getting parents to help. Fathers were the worst. In cub scouts many parents treated the scouts as a free baby-sitting service. Often had trouble getting parents to show up to pick up thier kids. Had single moms offering to help, and sometimes took them up on it, but teenage sons of single moms were exactly the boys who would benefit from being around rationale adult men.

Sometimes I think the best thing we did was not the camping, but giving the kids an example of how adult males can behave. Having the boys see good leaders interact with each other at least gave them a peek at how it can be done. Most did not get it at home.

Frosty
08-19-2005, 20:57
To get back on topic, I have to say that I have never stayed in a shelter without a snorer. Even when I was alone in the shelter.

jackiebolen
08-21-2005, 20:50
I ran across a group of boyscouts that were run by two ex thru-hikers and they were great. Very respectful, clean and quiet and more than willing to share their extra food. So to generalize about Boy Scouts is not so cool in my books.

Plus, one guy I met on the trail when he was low on food when he ran across a Boy Scout group and the groups always gave him stuff without fail. Not saying it was right...but the groups were generous.