View Full Version : vests or jackets
m0rpheu5
10-16-2008, 01:43
I am contimplating getting a down jacket or vest. Down seems to be the right choice for UL Coldweather Gear. Which would be better though? Vest or Jacket? Why?
I have the WM Lite Flite Jacket(Down) and its great, but if my oldest son can
find his the Northface Down Vest we are going to try a trade for a while.
I have found you have to be real careful with the jacket sleeves around
fire and water. Just a small fire pop will get the jacket sleeve as you roast
that dog. I have one small hole to prove this ! My son had fewer of these
problems when we shared a recent hiking trip.
Not a lot of weight savings but a few oz's and smaller pack-up size to.
And less bulk in the sleeping bag if you have to use it. Although I have
never had to use my jacket inside my bag except to get in or put it on
when I came out on a cold morning.
Last thing, the Vest cost less !
I think this is really hard to answer without more background, including your metabolism, temperatures expected where you'll be, your style of backpacking, etc.
In this context, by "style", I mean things like whether you tend to sit around in camp for any significant amount of time, or if you're mostly either on the move or in the sleeping bag.
I personally wouldn't be happy without a jacket with sleeves in anything but a fairly warm environment. I use a montbell thermawrap jacket, which is pretty light and can can compress quite small, but I add a (size larger) thermawrap vest if I think the temps can get pretty cold. In fact, I almost never use the vest (too), however, during three-season hiking. For my preference and style, I tend to wear the jacket in morning and evening when relatively sedantary, then take it off in favor of a windshirt when starting to walk in the morning. Barring pretty cold temps I can't imagine wanting to wear either vest or jacket when walking.
In terms of down vs. synthetic, this too depends on multiple factors IMO. Since my bag is down, I kind of like augmenting my light bag with synthetic warmth layer clothes. I think either choice is fine, but my thermawrap keeps me plenty warm in most 3-season conditions.
bigcranky
10-16-2008, 07:49
In any sort of serious cold I take a down jacket. In cool weather I have a light down vest that provides a lot of warmth for less than 5 ounces. So BrianLe is right, it really depends on the situation.
If I were buying my first warm layer for backpacking, it would be a down jacket. The specific model would depend on when and where I wanted to hike.
take-a-knee
10-16-2008, 07:58
Montbell Thermawrap jacket should be your first pick.
Tipi Walter
10-16-2008, 07:58
Pound for pound, or ounce for ounce, a down vest is one of the best pieces of gear to have in your pack. It keeps the torso warm and does so using less material and with a lighter weight than a jacket. I went backpacking for years using just a good down vest for my outer warmth layer, and it doubles as a pillow at night. And it is easier to wear while backpacking than a jacket(although who backpacks in down? It's just too hot).
On the other hand, in real cold conditions(zero or below), a beefy down jacket is the way to go. I'm talking about at least a North Face Nupste and going from there, all the way up to a Feathered Friends Icefall parka or something similar. It's all about staying warm while in camp, as none of these items can be worn when actually humping a loaded pack up a mountain--too hot, etc. The merino and fleece layers can be used instead when actually moving. Every winter backpacker should have a down vest in their pack(and if not, a jacket).
NICKTHEGREEK
10-16-2008, 08:47
I have the WM Lite Flite Jacket(Down) and its great, but if my oldest son can
find his the Northface Down Vest we are going to try a trade for a while.
I have found you have to be real careful with the jacket sleeves around
fire and water. Just a small fire pop will get the jacket sleeve as you roast
that dog. I have one small hole to prove this ! My son had fewer of these
problems when we shared a recent hiking trip.
Not a lot of weight savings but a few oz's and smaller pack-up size to.
And less bulk in the sleeping bag if you have to use it. Although I have
never had to use my jacket inside my bag except to get in or put it on
when I came out on a cold morning.
Last thing, the Vest cost less !
Right you are, I nicknamed my Meltdown the "Hindenburg" The thing had more McNett seam seal covering the holes than I used on my tent. It still sheds water pretty well as long as you don't soak it.
Doggone but that SOB is one warm jacket.
taildragger
10-16-2008, 08:52
I pair my down vest with my driclime in most cold environments, plenty warm, and I wear the driclime while hiking anyways.
I've got a down jacket for when its gets colder than a witch's teet
FanaticFringer
10-17-2008, 23:09
I love my Montbell Alpine Light down jacket.
I love my Montbell Alpine Light down jacket.
I second the MB AL down parka
Since I don't hike in down, only use it around camp, I always go with a jacket. Vests seem to allow the cold in through the armpits into your torso. A synth. vest is great for hiking, though.
if you're going below freezing i'd take more than a thermawrap. they're nice (light and packable), but honestly, trendy and not all that warm. field jacket liner for $5 will give comparable warmth.
this is actually a question that's been on my mind as well so thanks for asking. i'm debating choosing b/t a nice down jacket or a vest. been looking at mt hardwear's subzero versions but am afraid of them being too short (seemingly mt hardwear's jackets are all cut for people who are 5'2" and hit about the same place as the top of my waist belt from my pack. unacceptable).
wonder how cold i could get this system. down vest/goretex jacket (or windshirt)/field jacket liner/base layer.
River Runner
10-20-2008, 02:53
I think its a matter of personal preference, or maybe personal metabolism. If I am cold, I prefer insulation on my arms. In fact, I'll often wear a jacket with the front unzipped which ventilates my core but keeps my arms and back warm.
hnryclay
10-24-2008, 22:15
For me it depends on what activity you are doing. When I am backpacking solo, trying to move fast, and light chances are I will cook,eat, and for the most part live in my sleeping bag after setting up camp. A vest is ideal for this, since I also have the bag and I am not trying to socialize or walk around camp. When camping, or group hiking, I prefer a jacket so that I am not limited to my bag, and can freely walk around camp with more warmth. I have a Mountain Hardware Sub Zero vest, it is very warm when used as an insulating layer, but if you are going to be standing around talking in 10 to 15 degree weather I would prefer a jacket. I am currently looking at buying a new Montbell Alpine jacket to replace my current LL Bean offering.
Dirtygaiters
10-24-2008, 23:51
It all depends on the conditions you'll be seeing. I have, and use, both jackets and vests. Speaking of down only, I'd agree with everybody else that an ultralight down vest is a highly optimized piece of gear for the backpacker. The Western Mountaineering Flight vest and the Feathered Friends Hyperion (each at about 6-7oz) have an excellent warmth-to-weight payoff, considering that a typical fleece vest would weigh about the same or even a touch heavier, although the fleece wouldn't be as warm or as windproof. A 6-7oz down vest, however, is really only good as stand-alone camp wear when the low isn't getting below the 30s, and you need to already be wearing a long sleeve shirt or else your arms will get cold.
For winter, or for extra comfort in fall/spring, but with a little more weight, a jacket is best, and a hooded jacket is even better. There's a whole range of different jackets, though, and they range all the way from a 10 ounce down pullover all the way up to a 2 pound down parka. It's all a matter of preference and necessity and that varies from person to person. Personally, I like the Montbell Alpine down jacket. It weighs about 16 ounces, isn't priced unreasonably, and has boxed-baffle construction so there aren't any cold spots. The only problem is it doesn't have a hood.
Dirtygaiters
10-25-2008, 00:12
High loft synthetic-fill jackets are another story. The main advantage is that they can be worn while active or while it's raining. For instance, imagine a long day of hiking through sleet. If you're dry, you'll probably be fine while you're hiking in just your base layer and rain gear. However, what about when you take a rest stop. If your warm-up jacket is down, you might get concerned about getting the down wet and thus compromising its insulation. With synthetics you don't have to worry so much, since water can just be wrung out. Also, if you just don't want to worry about accidentally getting your jacket wet, a synthetic one would be a good choice. So there's a case to be made for the synthetic jacket in certain circumstances.
take-a-knee
10-25-2008, 00:35
High loft synthetic-fill jackets are another story. The main advantage is that they can be worn while active or while it's raining. For instance, imagine a long day of hiking through sleet. If you're dry, you'll probably be fine while you're hiking in just your base layer and rain gear. However, what about when you take a rest stop. If your warm-up jacket is down, you might get concerned about getting the down wet and thus compromising its insulation. With synthetics you don't have to worry so much, since water can just be wrung out. Also, if you just don't want to worry about accidentally getting your jacket wet, a synthetic one would be a good choice. So there's a case to be made for the synthetic jacket in certain circumstances.
A very solid arguement, I can only add that the synthetic jacket (or down for that matter) should have a hood.
peter_pan
10-25-2008, 06:45
I am contimplating getting a down jacket or vest. Down seems to be the right choice for UL Coldweather Gear. Which would be better though? Vest or Jacket? Why?
m0rpheus5,
Why make a choice have them both.
Jacks 'R' Better.... see roatating banner above.... makes down sleeves that turn any vest into a jacket instantly.... they can also be worn alone.... they also can be worn as sleep socks(the absolute nicest feature of any piece of multifuncyional gear)....at 5 oz/pr, add them to a 5oz bozeman vest and you get super capabilty all for 10 oz, less than a fleece shirt, half of a full Zip fleece jacket.
I'm biased...but these are just some little known facts.
Pan
Really good question. Lots of interesting things come into play.
Your torso requires an extra layer most of the time, but at really extreme conditions your entire body is almost equally vulnerable especially for long periods of exposure, if the down layer is for extreme cold, this would favour a down jacket.
On the other hand, down requires two wind layers, inside and out, so at least one of these is redundant with your wind layer, at least in theory. In practice, if the down shell is the very lightest material possible, but still down proof, then it probably breathes a little and there is some benefit to there being two of these layers especially if they are seperated by down, and even if there was another layer over them again.
Anyhow, I think you should compare your total system with a down vest to a total system with a down jacket. Consider the most extreme conditions you might encounter for most of your trips where you would want to include this down layer. Think of the extreme cold, extreme wet, extreme wind, and the various combinations. Then think about which layers you would want to remove and leave in your pack or in your sleeping back until needed, or taken off and removed regularly as conditions change. Figure out which total system is most comfortable, light, robust, nifty, for 95% of of the time, and still get you through the most extreme conditions the other 5%, or 1%, or 0.1% or whatever. Hope that helps.
I am a wool sweater man myself, but in other circumstances than I normally hike in
I would include a down vest, or a down jacket, or even a down long coat in my kit.
I agree 100%. Thats why I like the synthetic micropuff vest above a light baselayer in the early cool morning when Im hiking. But after the tent is pitched in the evening and Im stationary during the cooldown Im thinking about ordering Montbells UL down jacket. I usually hike in September---Long Trail, JMT,maybe a big chunk of the Colorado Trail in 2009.
Patagonia also makes a micropuff jacket which is twice the weight of Montbell's UL down Jacket. However the micropuff stays warm when wet while the down if it happens to get wet is ____ed.
wandering_bob
10-26-2008, 17:15
Cold and dry? Down every time.
Cold and wet? Synthetic every time.
Vest or jacket for cold weather? Take both. The added 6 oz will be peanuts compared to the overall weight of your cold weather pack load and you'll gain great flexibility.:-?
I have BOTH a Micropuff vest and Micropuff pullover (whenever I can steal it back from my wife). The pullover - like your down jacket - is too warm to hike in so the vest over a base layer plus a windshirt does the job.
A pox upon Patagonia for INCREASING the weights of their Micropuff items over the years. Each "new improved" rendition packs on the weight.:mad:
The same pox upon Mountainsmith for doing the same thing with their Mountainlight pack series, finally ending it entirely in favor of heavier, more gadgety packs.:mad:
:-?Anyone got an idea where I can buy a men's medium micropuff pullover?
I just got off the phone with Patagonia and they dont stock them anymore, none at backcountry;ditto for Sierra Trading Post, Moose Jaw, REI and everwhere else. None on ebay. Boy you guys that got them better hang onto them!
wandering_bob
10-28-2008, 21:52
The pullover was always a seasonal item. If Patagonia doesn't stock them anymore, it is most likely discontinued.:mad: They now actively promote their improved (aka grossly overweight) Micropuff vest, jacket, and parka. With the breadth of that line-up, the pullover was overkill. I doubt they sold enough of them to make it worth having a 4th SKU.
I have a large pullover, which my wife affectionately calls "the puffy jacket". In a foolishly chivalrous act on one of our JMT training hikes, I loaned it to her when her insulating layer failed to keep her warm enough in camp. She fell in love with it and took it with her to Yosemite.:p I only got it back AFTER we got home. It gets to live with its friends in my gear closet until she's ready to wear it again. To sell it :eek: would be to commit suicide.