scotchgard down sleeping bag

[wnderer]

Is it okay to use scotch gard on a down sleeping bag or will it soak through and damage the down?

Thanks

[fiddlehead]

I don't know that the problem would be soaking through and damaging the down.
IMO, the problem would be hurting the breathability of the outside fabric.

You sweat when you sleep and this moisture get's into the down. It is important to have a breathable fabric to allow this moisture to dry in the easiest and fastest way possible.

For this reason, i don't like the DNR fabric and prefer the lightest weight nylon with the most breathability for the outer shell of my bags.

Isn't scotchguard more for waterproofing things?

[Pedaling Fool]

Don't know. Sounds like a good question for the manufacturer. I've had questions like that before -- an e-mail shot off got a quick response.

[trouthunter]

Aquaseal and several other manufacturers make DWR sprays and soaks for many outdoor products that are far superior to the sprays like Camp Dry and other silicone based sprays.
They definitely make a treatment just for bags that maintains the bags breathability.
Many of the cheaper sprays you can buy at big box stores or outdoor stores are not recommended by bag makers.
I will repost with a link for you.

[trouthunter]

Okay my bad, it's Nikwax I was thinking of. They have Polar Proof, for wool and synthetics, and Down Proof, for down products. There are other brands as well, I'll see what I can dig up
http://www.nikwax.com/en-us/products/productdetail.php?productid=273&activityid=1.

[Bob S]

I clean carpet and furniture for a living (for 25+ years) I spray about 2-gal of Scotch Guard a week on carpet. And another gal or so of silicone protectant on furniture.


Scotch Guard is not silicone based. Its floral carbon based. Floral carbon based protectant is not quite as waterproof as silicone based protectant, but it’s safer to use on delicate fabrics that have a shine to them or fabric that have a floral print on them.


On a sleeping bag I would say it’s safe to use either one.

They both will allow the fabric to breathe as they bond to each fiber and not coat the fabric as a whole like painting something does.


PS any protectant will not keep your bag clean, they just allow it to come clean easier when you do finally clean it.

Think of it like you would when waxing a kitchen floor, if you spill something on the floor with or without wax it’s still going to make the floor dirty, but the waxed floor will clean up easier. It’s the same way with protectant and fabric.

[wnderer]

Waterproofing was the general idea. Keep water from getting into the down. The Nikwax seems kind of scary to use. The instructions says:

1. For sleeping bags immerse item(s) in hand hot water in a bowl or bath tub.

The bag label says to dry clean only.

I guess I should email Big Agnes and find out what they suggest.

Thanks

[jnetx]

The bag label says to dry clean only.


It's strange it would say dry clean only when BA's online cleaning instruction doc http://www.bigagnes.com/sleeping_bag_care.pdf says in bold letters "Do not Dry Clean Bags"!!!

I washed and dried mine recently in a commercial high volume front loader washing machine, and regular commercial drier on cool setting for several hours. They came out fine, though it was real interesting to watch. In the washer it was like watching a couple of colored balloons in the machine. The drying process was long, I kept feeding quarters in the machine a couple at a time, giving about 16 minutes drying time, then removing the bag to gently seperate and distribute the down in the baffles. Initially some of the baffles looked like the down had disappeared, but then I'd find a couple of tiny quarter size lumps of down, and gently ease them out of corners, edges etc, and ease the down apart. After several hours repeating this the bag was like new again, lovely soft full loft and sleeping like it had never been near a stinky hiker!

As for the original question, I've never treated my bag for waterproofing, never felt it necessary, as it's never got wet in thousands of miles of hiking, but I have used nikwax on down jackets, etc, with no problems.

[trouthunter]

If it was me I would get a hold of BA and ask them to recommend a DWR product.
Many of todays bags come with a DWR (durable water repellent) from the factory.
Lots of times you can tell just by looking at the fabric held close to a light, it will be shiny and water should bead up on it if it has a DWR coating.

I have talked to the people at Mnt. Hardware and they explained to me that the DWR helps the bag breath better by keeping outside air moisture from wetting the outer bag fabric.
If the outer bag fabric gets damp it can not wick (absorb) moisture from inside the bag and release it to the outside of the bag through evaporation.
Call BA and get them to tell you what they recommend for use on their bags.
Hope that helps

[Bob S]

Waterproofing was the general idea. Keep water from getting into the down. The Nikwax seems kind of scary to use. The instructions says:

1. For sleeping bags immerse item(s) in hand hot water in a bowl or bath tub.

The bag label says to dry clean only.

I guess I should email Big Agnes and find out what they suggest.

Thanks
Dry cleaning solvent is nasty stuff, it cost me more to get rid of 5-gal of it then it does to buy it new. It’s hazardous material. And dry cleaning is about the poorest cleaning method there is. It removes almost nothing. Most spots & stains are water soluble, dry cleaning solvent doesn’t remove water based spots very well.


Don’t buy into what the label on things say. I once cleaned some patio furniture that had a tag on it that said “Dry Clean Only” it was outdoor patio furniture and they wanted dry cleaned????? :-?


Dry Clean Only labels are more there to make lawyers happy so the company doesn’t get sued because of stupid things customers do then to actually tell you how to clean something.

[wnderer]

It's strange it would say dry clean only when BA's online cleaning instruction doc http://www.bigagnes.com/sleeping_bag_care.pdf says in bold letters "Do not Dry Clean Bags"!!!



You're right it doesn't say to dry clean the bag. It says:

"The following cleaners specialize in washing sleeping bags:"

About Down in Seatle 206 784 3444
Blanc Plume in Kansas City 816 221 0902"

Which I read as 'take to the cleaners' or 'dry clean'. Never Assume right?

I emailed Big Agnes and they said to use Nikwax. My bag's not really dirty. I'm just worried about getting it wet. I don't carry a backup for my sleeping bag.

[Footslogger]

I'd go with one of the DWR preparations that are designed for camping fabrics. I sprayed mine before my thru-hike in 2003 with a product called Tectron:

http://knradventuregear.com/lotions_wtrprfing/waterproofers/wetGuard.htm

Worked like a champ. When I got home I washed my down bag and then reapplied Tectron. Wouldn't take a down bag out in the woods without it ...or something like it.

'Slogger

[jnetx]

You're right it doesn't say to dry clean the bag. It says:

"The following cleaners specialize in washing sleeping bags:"

About Down in Seatle 206 784 3444
Blanc Plume in Kansas City 816 221 0902"

Which I read as 'take to the cleaners' or 'dry clean'. Never Assume right?

I emailed Big Agnes and they said to use Nikwax. My bag's not really dirty. I'm just worried about getting it wet. I don't carry a backup for my sleeping bag.

Glad to be of assistance. I have many times glanced at a label and read "Dry Clean Only", when it really said "Do Not Dry Clean"!!

As for getting the bag wet, I obviously don't know what shelter you're using, or how you carry your bag in your pack, but from many years of experience, my down bag has never been soaked while hiking. I keep it in a 13l dry bag in my backpack which even kept the bag dry during a several minute total underwater submersion of my backpack when I fell neck deep in a stream this past summer. Our first 40 some days on the AT SOBO this past June/July were truly waterlogged, with some extremely heavu overnight rains, but the bag never got wet. I think some of the stuff we read about getting down bags wet tends us make us think that they will somehow soak up water. However, most bags' outer covers are already water resistant.

Having said that, I think I mentionned previously that I've had good results from Nikwax products. I mainly use the spray on types, but if your prefer the immersion types, maybe you could follow the waterproofing instruction using a large bucket of hand hot water, then complete the re-drying process in a commercial dryer.

Good luck.

[Raven(ous)]

The chemistry teacher in me is coming out! You mean to say fluorocarbon, not "floral carbon". A fluorocarbon or perfluorocarbon is a compound that contains fluorine and carbon with the form CxFy, depending on the polymer. These are extremely stable due to their non-polar nature as all bond angles are perfectly balanced when carbon reacts completely with fluorine. Thus, they are very hydrophobic and repel water. Since water is polar, it sticks most to other slightly polar molecules. Since perfluorocarbons are designed to be extremely non-polar, the water doesn't stick and instead beads up, which makes it a great water repelling layer.

Thanks for tolerating me! :rolleyes:

"Scotch Guard is not silicone based. Its floral carbon based. Floral carbon based protectant is not quite as waterproof as silicone based protectant, but it’s safer to use on delicate fabrics that have a shine to them or fabric that have a floral print on them."

[4eyedbuzzard]

The chemistry teacher in me is coming out! You mean to say fluorocarbon, not "floral carbon". A fluorocarbon or perfluorocarbon is a compound that contains fluorine and carbon with the form CxFy, depending on the polymer. These are extremely stable due to their non-polar nature as all bond angles are perfectly balanced when carbon reacts completely with fluorine. Thus, they are very hydrophobic and repel water. Since water is polar, it sticks most to other slightly polar molecules. Since perfluorocarbons are designed to be extremely non-polar, the water doesn't stick and instead beads up, which makes it a great water repelling layer.

Thanks for tolerating me! :rolleyes:

"Scotch Guard is not silicone based. Its floral carbon based. Floral carbon based protectant is not quite as waterproof as silicone based protectant, but it’s safer to use on delicate fabrics that have a shine to them or fabric that have a floral print on them."

So, it doesn't smell like roses? :D :welcome