View Full Version : Cost
GeneralLee10
10-26-2008, 22:05
I have read a lot on this site about the cost of a thru hike. Some say have a few grand (3 to 5) in the bank I can see that for your bills maybe like vehicle payment but is that the real cost of a thru hike? Not including your bills? Some say you can thru with around couple hundred dollars if you stay out of town more and less mail drops. Is the food at these stores off the trail cheep enough and have a good variety of foods to choose from? Or should a person plan a well thought out food mail drop system? The cost of mail drops can get pricey at around 25 to 30 drops. The main Q here is can you do it for 3 to 5 hundred bucks? The 3 to 5 hundred bucks sounds good if I discipline myself, plus I would be doing this to get away from the city and town life for a bit along with the challenge it's self. Please help if you can I thank you.
Could you live at home for 5 - 6 months for $300 - $500 dollars for food? I doubt it. Plus most everyone will want at least an occasional hotel or hostel stay. Your food costs will not be cheaper than you can get at home, probably more expensive in the small trail towns.
Personally, I would not start without a couple thousand, even if I were planning to do a frugal hike. Most estimates I've heard is $1 per mile, and that has been the estimate for many years. I would guess most folks spend substantially more. Not saying you can't still do it on the cheap, but it will take extraordinary discipline. I think $300 - $500 would be totally inadequate for a full thru, but you can always start out with the plan to go as far as your money gets you.
I'm sure others will chime in with more exact info. Best of luck.
You cannot feed yourself for just 3 to 5 hundred bucks.
After a few days of rain and cold you're going to want to go somewhere to get a shower and a dry place to sleep.
You're going to want to do laundry occasionally.
CrumbSnatcher
10-26-2008, 22:36
I have read a lot on this site about the cost of a thru hike. Some say have a few grand (3 to 5) in the bank I can see that for your bills maybe like vehicle payment but is that the real cost of a thru hike? Not including your bills? Some say you can thru with around couple hundred dollars if you stay out of town more and less mail drops. Is the food at these stores off the trail cheep enough and have a good variety of foods to choose from? Or should a person plan a well thought out food mail drop system? The cost of mail drops can get pricey at around 25 to 30 drops. The main Q here is can you do it for 3 to 5 hundred bucks? The 3 to 5 hundred bucks sounds good if I discipline myself, plus I would be doing this to get away from the city and town life for a bit along with the challenge it's self. Please help if you can I thank you.
i,d stop listening to who ever told you a few hundred. unless you plan on begging alot and dumster diving! burgerking dumpster diving at 1:00 in the morning, yummmmm. 1-2 dollors per mile, PM someone like jersey joe and see how much money he spent. and depends on how long of a thru you planning?
I have read a lot on this site about the cost of a thru hike. Some say have a few grand (3 to 5) in the bank I can see that for your bills maybe like vehicle payment but is that the real cost of a thru hike? Not including your bills? Some say you can thru with around couple hundred dollars if you stay out of town more and less mail drops. Is the food at these stores off the trail cheep enough and have a good variety of foods to choose from? Or should a person plan a well thought out food mail drop system? The cost of mail drops can get pricey at around 25 to 30 drops. The main Q here is can you do it for 3 to 5 hundred bucks? The 3 to 5 hundred bucks sounds good if I discipline myself, plus I would be doing this to get away from the city and town life for a bit along with the challenge it's self. Please help if you can I thank you.You don't have to ask really. You can discover for yourself and start saving for your trip while you are doing it. Just start cutting back on fast food and restaraunts and entertainment and see how cheap you can live while eating well out of grocery stores, and how much fun you can still have in life without spending alot of money. To really have fun and get some training in while saving some more money don't drive your car to the grocery store. Hike there, and resupply every 7 days or so, say 10 pounds of food for $15 or something like that, then see if you can make it a week on what you buy. It is doable. You may need to do some long distance running of biking also in order to burn the same calories but then you'll be getting in shape also. If you can only discipline yourself down to $20 a week then you will know you can go on $400 for 20 weeks, not counting other expenses like getting to the trailhead and home again and gear wear and tear etc, and you will be saving for it while your doing it. Stash the money you save each week in a cookee jar compared to what you spend now, if you know. If you can only get down to $30 a week, and can only save up $300 not counting other expenses, you can still go for 10 weeks which might only be half the AT but do the other half next year. It's doable.
You'll want to eat alot of stuff like oatmeal and lentils. In order to eat a health diet some calories will cost more than others, but ignore advice like Little Debbies and crap like that. You will learn alot about healthy eating and frugal spending which will serve you well in life as well as on your trip.
Lone Wolf
10-27-2008, 04:19
Some say you can thru with around couple hundred dollars if you stay out of town more and less mail drops. The main Q here is can you do it for 3 to 5 hundred bucks? The 3 to 5 hundred bucks sounds good if I discipline myself, plus I would be doing this to get away from the city and town life for a bit along with the challenge it's self.
pretty unlikely.your chances of completing a thru-hike are slim. having very little cash makes it slimmer
You'll want to eat alot of stuff like oatmeal and lentils. In order to eat a health diet some calories will cost more than others, but ignore advice like Little Debbies and crap like that. You will learn alot about healthy eating and frugal spending which will serve you well in life as well as on your trip.
I'd rather suck down a fudge round,
than gnaw on a lentil.
Lone Wolf
10-27-2008, 04:25
I'd rather suck down a fudge round,
than gnaw on a lentil.
yeah really. little debbies "and crap like that" are awesome on long distance hikes. nobody eats crap like lentils and such
bigcranky
10-27-2008, 07:26
That 3-5 thousand doesn't include things like car payments and such. (A $500 car payment for 6 months is $3000 all by itself.) Even with trying to hike as cheaply as possible, a thru-hike will cost several thousand dollars.
jersey joe
10-28-2008, 09:59
I have read a lot on this site about the cost of a thru hike. Some say have a few grand (3 to 5) in the bank I can see that for your bills maybe like vehicle payment but is that the real cost of a thru hike? Not including your bills? Some say you can thru with around couple hundred dollars if you stay out of town more and less mail drops. Is the food at these stores off the trail cheep enough and have a good variety of foods to choose from? Or should a person plan a well thought out food mail drop system? The cost of mail drops can get pricey at around 25 to 30 drops. The main Q here is can you do it for 3 to 5 hundred bucks? The 3 to 5 hundred bucks sounds good if I discipline myself, plus I would be doing this to get away from the city and town life for a bit along with the challenge it's self. Please help if you can I thank you.
lndwlkr,
I have always thought that 3-5k is a very high estimate for a low end thru hike. To me, 5k is a VERY comfortable thru hike. If I had to guess, I'd say I spent somewhere around $700 on my thru hike.(not including gear and transportation to/from the trail heads)
You are correct, it takes a lot of discipline to pull off a thru hike on such a tight budget, but yes, it can be done.
Just saying, all he has to do is start living now the way he would hope to on the trail.
Yeah Little Debbies are yummy cheap calories, but then you have to get the rest of your nutitrion from more expensive sources, like pizza and beer. If you manage to choke down stuff like oatmeal porridge with some currants and almonds, and vegetable soup mix with extra lentils added, all bought in reasonable sized quantities from grocery stores, then life is alot cheaper. If he can't try that at home for a couple of weeks, then he needn't ask you guys if he can do it on the trail. That's all I'm sayin.
I would have never guessed how much $ you can spend on the trail until I did a long section this year. It was in April which is prime NOBO thru time. Man...the cash that you could fork out is rediculous. I highly suggest watching the $ you dish out before Hot Springs. I saw many people broke before they even got there.
Now don't ask me what nutitrion is because I don't know.
Might be that stuff that makes Superthruhikeman go all weak in the knees. :D
I've always thought $2000 is a safe low-ball number. Enough to eat heartily and do 3-4 hotel pit stops, which is all you really need to do out there.
I did a lot of sailing racing in the 70s and 80s and live really cheap, living on summer employment money and still having enough for tuition and rent with a small student loans and bursaries or scholarships. Lived cheap all year round, but in the summer spent a lot of time on the road and still never ever spent one night in a motel. Wouldn't have dreamed of it. Food was good, but cheap, mostly out of grocery stores. Had some left for beer but never excessive. Now its hard for students to get a good summer job and the tuition and loans are rediculous, but they should still be able to hike cheap if they have the time. I don't see how it should be any more expensive than the small boat dinghy sailing I did in the 70s and 80s. You just gotta get into the right habits, and know how to eat cheap, and get a thrill out of being frugal. We never ate out of garbage cans or begged for money. We were put up by billets every now and then and were very grateful, and try and pass on that hospitality today.
When I got back into sailing for a short time in the 1996 before the Olympic Trials I did noticed that most perople were not living as frugally as we did in the old days, and we didn't either. Everyine seemed to have funding of some kind, or were older and taking time off from good paying careers, and everyone stayed in motels and stuff. Police and everyone seemed a little fussier also about people sleeping in their cars and vans like we did in the old days. I think people need to lighten up, and learn the thrill and thrift of living frugally again.
I've always thought $2000 is a safe low-ball number. Enough to eat heartily and do 3-4 hotel pit stops, which is all you really need to do out there.That seems pretty reasonable to me, and if I was young and fit today I would try and do it for under $1000 by doing it a little faster and without staying in any hotels, and still have some for beer and pizza now and then. If that's all I had I would just stretch it as far as I could before going home. I don't see the big deal in that. Back in my sailing days if we couldn't afford going to CORK at the end of the summer, or the Worlds that winter, then we simply didn't go, but we didn't cry about it and it didn't stop us from sailing again next summer. Having no money didn't stop me from sailing. Only lack of willpower and moving on to other things stopped me from sailing, eventually. Don't see how hiking is different.
When some folks went off for fancy restraunts and beer and we stayed in the parking lot and ate our cereal and milk and a discrete beer or two I don't think we had any less fun. Of course kicking most of them spoiled kids on the race course always helped, but wasn't really neccessary. A lot of us lived cheap on the road, and never caused any trouble. There were some members that complained about 'vans and laundry' at this particularly nice yacht club on lake Ponchatrain in 1980, but this other fellow took my brother and I for dinner in the club to exchange sailing stories, and let us sleep on his boat. I learned alot from all that competive sailing and travel and wouldn't change a thing. Seems to me if we want a society that builds real character, and not just more fast food joints and motels, then we shouldn't expect people to spend all their money on fast food joints and motels.
I say save your money and spend your money on miles, not motels.
slowandlow
10-28-2008, 11:36
You should also know that things tend to be much more expensive in the north, thereby possibly making the northern half of a thru hike more expensive, i.e if you have spent half of your money by Harper's Ferry you will have to be more frugal to make it last to Maine.
lonehiker
10-28-2008, 11:58
Food costs were higher than I expected. I have seen many people discuss how cheap it is to eat if they buy this or that. But, I found with my particular eating habit/tastes that often times I would spend as much as 7-8 dollars a day for food. It went as high as 10 dollars a day when I had to resupply out of smaller groceries. I did not take any food out of hiker boxes.
Typical menu:
breakfast: poptarts
morning snack: protein/breakfast bar
lunch: peanut butter and honey on tortilla (or bread/bagels)
afternoon snack: Snickers or M&Ms
Dinner: Lipton sides (sides plus w/veggies) with packet of tuna/chicken
Dessert: Little Debby Honey Buns
Would have liked to have eaten more (I was down at one time 39 lbs) but didn't to keep weight down.
The point is that food costs could be higher than you anticipate. This isn't even counting what you may (will) eat in town.
MARKO HANGMAN III
10-28-2008, 12:53
Anyone who can't figure out their own budget for a thru-hike ahead of time should plan on spending at least $3,000 in order to finish. Yes, it's possible to complete a thru-hike for less than that. It's done all the time. It takes some planning, some discipline, and some fast walking. And the ability to spend within one's means. But if you're not the budgeting type, try to start with the $3,000 and you'll have no worries. Or just section hike till the money runs out.
But it is something you can figure out ahead of time, and save up for your hike while doing so. Just eat and live the way you intend to hike. I'm thinking of giving it a go for a couple of weeks just to see how cheap and healthy I can eat, and get off spending so much money on Tim Horton's coffee. Lat time I tried I think I lasted a day or two.
Has anyone ever done this? Eat and live the way you intend to hike? Still go to work and stuff, and drive when neccessary, but as far as food and entertainment goes, just to see how frugally you can live?
Jack Tarlin
10-28-2008, 14:08
Some good advice above.
Here's some more: Unless you want a really miserable trip, or a really short one, bring at least $1500, and that's a minimum.
People that start the Trail without enough money either end up going home in a few short weeks, or they stick around and become despised as indigent Trail bums, cadging food, living off of other hikers, mooching floor space in motels, etc.
There are some places along the way where you might pick up some short-term work, or maybe you can get a work-for-stay somewhere for a night's free lodging. But you can't count on this.
Getting off the Traill or abbreviating a trip you're enjoying because of lack of money can be a realy horrible thing. But if you start with 3-5 hundred dollars, this is EXACTLY what will happen to you.
Work and save, until you have enough to really enjoy the trip, and do this even if it means postponing your hike for a year.
Unless you want to live on beans and rice, never take time off in town, never enjoy a restaurant meal, and only want to shower and do laundry once or twice a month, you won't get very far on 3-5 hundred bucks.
Sorry if this sounds harsh, but it's God's honest truth.
2009ThruHiker
10-28-2008, 14:13
I thought I'd add on here to this post with a question of my own...
I've budgeted 8000 for my wife and I for our thru hike...that's for shoes needed during the hike (we've got our first pair), trips to and from the trail (gas money for our ride and 1 night stay over each way), and all food and lodging and shower/laundry expenditures over the course of the thru. This is also for postage for a bump box (don't talk me out of it, this isn't my question), and postage for a few key mail drops.
So, my question is 8000 doable for a couples thru-hike? We rarely drink, we don't smoke. I'd like to do it on less, because things are so tight...but even right now we spend 440 monthly on food for the two of us...which over 6 months is 2640 which leaves 5360...this seems high for the remaining items...please advise.
There is also an emergency fund of 1500.
It would work best if you were also on an exercise program to burn alot of calories. Probably still burn less food, but you could always scale it up. Here is a weekly grocery list I might try for say 10 pounds per week. To compare prices I would have to buy in smaller sizes. I will modify it a bit for variety from one week to the next, as I would on a thru-hike. I am not even sure if it is as balanced as it should be but I can figure that out as I go along.
First Week: 10 pounds of groceries
Bag of Oatmeal: 2 pounds
Jar of Honey: 1 pound
Skim Milk Powder: 1 pound
Bag of Currants or Raisins: 1 pound
Bag of Almonds from baking goods: 1 pound
Dry vegetable soup mixes: 2 pounds
Bag of Lentils: 2 pounds
Lemon Powder with vitamin C?
Small box of tea bags?
I will go out and see how cheap I can get this, maybe modify it a bit.
Lone Wolf
10-28-2008, 14:19
I thought I'd add on here to this post with a question of my own...
I've budgeted 8000 for my wife and I for our thru hike...that's for shoes needed during the hike (we've got our first pair), trips to and from the trail (gas money for our ride and 1 night stay over each way), and all food and lodging and shower/laundry expenditures over the course of the thru. This is also for postage for a bump box (don't talk me out of it, this isn't my question), and postage for a few key mail drops.
So, my question is 8000 doable for a couples thru-hike? We rarely drink, we don't smoke. I'd like to do it on less, because things are so tight...but even right now we spend 440 monthly on food for the two of us...which over 6 months is 2640 which leaves 5360...this seems high for the remaining items...please advise.
There is also an emergency fund of 1500.
you'll do fine on that amount of $$$. you'll probably have money left over if you make it all the way
Blissful
10-28-2008, 14:26
We spent total $8000 for two of us, worked fine.
But I know of many hikers who had to leave because of money issues. So have it in the bank before you start.
Even if I tested and got it down to $1000 hiking on my own I would still bring $1500 as Jack said, to have some to fall back on. I would still try and be frugal, cause thats half the fun, but if I fell into a nice crowd now and then that weren't too rowdy but liked to have their beer and pizza now and then I imagine that extra $500 could get chewed up pretty quick, $20 here, $30 there, even in moderation. One way to keep from spending too much time in trail towns would be to get some special treats for the first night back on the trail, like french bread and cheese and some apples or a small bag of wine or stuff to make some really nices sandwiches for a couple of days. I think besides all the other logistics I would budget resupply in 3 categories, $500 for basic staples to live on, $500 for special groceries to entice me back on the trail quickly, and $500 for eating/entertainment in trail towns before I go.
If that only got me 1000 miles or only lasted 100 days I would be fine with that. I think the best candidates for doing it cheaper would be someone capable and determined enough to do it faster, like 2200 miles in 100 days or less. Nothing wrong with that either.
have you ever thru-hiked or done any long distance hiking of a month or more?No, but I've lived very cheap on the road while competing in sailing. It's probably quite different, but the same temptations were there. It's easier not to spend money if you don't have it though. Helps though if you have a few like minded folks. Today is harder though, than 20-30 years ago. Its not just that stuff is more expensive. Society expects people to spend more money. That's the problem. Well I guess the solution then would be to hike somewhere cheaper, with more like minded people.
Jack Tarlin
10-28-2008, 14:47
Um, just so there's no question, Jack said to bring $1500.00 as a minimum.
Personally, I don't think most folks could have a fully successful and happy thru-hike on 1500 bucks. It can certainly be done; people should check out Weathercarrot's excellent piece on hiking on a budget in the "Artcles" section of this website.
But I think most folks would want to bring between $3500.00 and $5000.00, not including initial gear purchases, or the cost of getting to and from the Trailheads.
On a six-month trip, $1500.00 would give you around eight bucks per day, and in that most folks spend close to this on food and food only every day, it asure doesn't leave much room for much else.
So, no, JAK, I did not say that one should bring $1500.00. I said that this was a minimum figure, and for most folks, a very bare-bones one, too. Most folks would not be capable of having a happy, fulfilling trip on this limited a budget, and they would certainly not be able to do everything their peers and friends were doing, especially as regards time off, rest stops, zero mileage days, lodging, restaurant meals, etc.
Note: Most hikers also spend at least a few hundred un-planned dollars on gear re-replacement or unplanned medical expenses. On a bare-bones skin-of-the-teeth budget, these sorts of problems would be trip enders for some
folks.
Question for Lone Wolf and Jack Tarlin and others,
Besides the normal rise in the cost of things, do you think there is more pressure on
people to spend more money on their thru-hike today compared with 30 years ago?
Was it easier to hike more frugally and still have fun back in the 70s?
Is there as much pressure to spend money hiking on other trails as there is on the AT?
I know in sailing and other sports, both recreational and competitive, people are spending alot more money today, beyond what you would expect for inflation. I am not entirely sure why this. Partly because we have more money. Partly because of pressure from society to spend like everyone else is. Maybe we need this reccession to reset our spending clocks.
Our recent trip to Disneyworld was about $3500 for a family of three. That to me is alot of money. We never spent that sort of money on vacations when I was young. We put all our money into buying a second hand boat, a new set of sails, sharing an old set of wheels, gasoline, groceries, beer, and regatta fees. I understand it is different today though. The boat I bought for $800 is over $8000 today. It can still be done cheap, but very few today do it. Back in the 70s cheap was the only option for most of us, and frugality was a virtue handed down to us, not shunned like it is today.
Jack Tarlin
10-28-2008, 15:02
I wouldn't describe it as "pressure."
Instead, I'd say that there are more opportunities for folks to spend money, as there are a lot more Trail facilities, hostels, etc. than there were years ago.
Plus, hikers have more information available, in the form of expanded Trail guidebooks, the Internet, from having read other people's trail journals, etc. So they KNOW about these places in advance and plan on spending time there.
This means that today's hikers tend to spend a whole lot more time OFF the Trail than they did years ago, so it's inevitable that they'll be spending more money.
But I wouldn't say anyone's "pressured" to do this. Nobody's forced to stay in a motel, or to take an extra zero in a Trail town. Nobody forces anyone to buy a steak dinner instead of a sack of cheap burgers.
What people spend is ultimately up to them......people that don't want to spend time and money in hostels, motels, restaurants, etc. don't have to do so.
If it was easier to be a "frugal" hiker back in the 70's, I suspect the two main resons for this was that things were a whole lot cheaper back then, and, plain and simply, the A.T. hiker had fewer places in which he could spend time and money.
There are other factors as well, such as that today's hikers are much more town oriented`and spend a lot less time in the woods than back in the day,
but again, this is a personal decision, and isn't anything that anyone's compelled to do.
I think if a person, especially still of college age, wanted to do it for $1500 or less they should be encouraged to do so. Frankly, if my daughter wanted to spend $5000 on something like this after leaving college I would discourage her from doing so, even if she didn't have a student loan. I would tell her do it for under $2000, and not waste too much time doing it.
Lone Wolf
10-28-2008, 15:07
Question for Lone Wolf and Jack Tarlin and others,
Besides the normal rise in the cost of things, do you think there is more pressure on
people to spend more money on their thru-hike today compared with 30 years ago?
Was it easier to hike more frugally and still have fun back in the 70s?
Is there as much pressure to spend money hiking on other trails as there is on the AT?
I know in sailing and other sports, both recreational and competitive, people are spending alot more money today, beyond what you would expect for inflation. I am not entirely sure why this. Partly because we have more money. Partly because of pressure from society to spend like everyone else is. Maybe we need this reccession to reset our spending clocks.
pressure to spend? no but there's a hell of a lot more hostels and shuttles available for slacking, etc. more outfitters too to blow cash on
Jim Adams
10-28-2008, 18:42
I think $300 - $500 would be totally inadequate for a full thru, but you can always start out with the plan to go as far as your money gets you.
Make sure you save enough for a bus ticket home from Fontana.:-?
I did my 1990 thru for $1500 but that was 1990. That included a couple of motels, 6 or 7 hostels, usually at least 1 restaurant meal per town and beer and cigarettes.
I did my 2002 thru for about $2,100 but I got alot of breaks (read "trail magic") from friends made during that 1990 hike.
I think that you would have a very difficult and NO treats (showers, clothes washing, town meals, etc.) hike on less than a $1,000.:(
geek
What really amazed our little group last year from Missouri, was that we could spend an entire week over there hiking for $300 bucks a person. That included all the 13 hours of driving, camping on the way over, and gas money and staying in Hot Springs at Elmer's coming in and going out and hotel on the way home (all seven of us crammed in a suite) and beer money, all our food, Hot Springs hot springs tubs and all the rest. We had all the gear. Just going anywhere from here usually involves plane fare. But it also made me realize that doing a thru costs money as it all adds up. A thru would probably never spend 300 in a week. Our hiker group rates it our top vacation and our cheapest. We as a group,had a cash kitty. We loved the kitty. Kitty paid for beer. Kitty paid for hot spings. Elmer's. Gas money. No splittng bills or quibbling. It finally ran out in Dyersberg, Tn on the way home around midnight. We mourned the end of the kitty.
CrumbSnatcher
10-28-2008, 23:19
lndwlkr,
I have always thought that 3-5k is a very high estimate for a low end thru hike. To me, 5k is a VERY comfortable thru hike. If I had to guess, I'd say I spent somewhere around $700 on my thru hike.(not including gear and transportation to/from the trail heads)
You are correct, it takes a lot of discipline to pull off a thru hike on such a tight budget, but yes, it can be done.
hey joe, i know you did a rather quick thruhike. did you do any town overnighters or zero days. i know you didn't spend much but did you have more funds on hand if you wanted to spend. or were you on a tight budget.
$300-$500 for a thru hike? I don't think so. I recall a thread no so long ago where Warren Doyle was widely mocked for suggesting he could do a thru-hike on $1000. Seriously, it's going to take 100-120 days, at least, for most folks; you're talking $3 to $5 per day. That's kinda tough.
Jack Tarlin
10-28-2008, 23:26
100 to 120 days?
Um, it takes 98% of the hikers a lot longer than that. And even if one did have that kind of speed, they'd have to be committed to doing 20-plus miles a day, every day. Sorta hard to maintain a pace like this on a rice and oatmeal diet, which is what 3 bucks a day would get you.
The three to five hundred buck budget is ridiculous.
... A thru would probably never spend 300 in a week...
You might be surprised.:rolleyes:Not necessary, but definitely possible.
My best advice is still to see how cheap you can live at home first, and pack the money you save while doing so away into a cookie jar. Also, don't worry about making it all the way. Just see how far you can make the money stretch. Find out how much bus fare home is at various points along the way. When you get to such a place and thats what you've got left in the cookie jar, then head on home and start saving up for the next section. Also have at least a months wages set aside besides, that's not for hiking or for travelling. Simple enough.
Many people probably hike themselves deeper into debt. Bad idea. Very bad idea.
I would like to see details on how people spend $3-$5 a mile, and still call it backpacking.
Lone Wolf
10-29-2008, 08:23
My best advice is still to see how cheap you can live at home first, and pack the money you save while doing so away into a cookie jar. Also, don't worry about making it all the way. Just see how far you can make the money stretch. Find out how much bus fare home is at various points along the way. When you get to such a place and thats what you've got left in the cookie jar, then head on home and start saving up for the next section. Also have at least a months wages set aside besides, that's not for hiking or for travelling. Simple enough.
dude. not simple enuf. it's too much planning. just have $5000 and go walkin'.
you wouldn't have a damn dog in the hunt. your daughter, if she finishes college, will be well past the age of 18 and can do what she damn well pleasesSo maybe stop telling these kids what they can and can't do then. lol
Lone Wolf
10-29-2008, 08:36
So maybe stop telling these kids what they can and can't do then. lol
what kids?
kids that want to see how far they can hike with $500 saved up.
I say if that only gets you 500 miles, what's wrong with that? Others say that will only get them 100 miles before they spend it all on beer and restraunts and motels like everyone else. Well that's crazy. Is this a hiking trail or a bar crawl?
Lone Wolf
10-29-2008, 08:39
kids that want to see how far they can hike with $500 saved up.
it's up to the kid's parents to let them hike or not.
By kids I mean people under 25, that might have some time before getting too settled in to careers but not a lot of money to waste. I think they should be encouraged to hike frugally, and if anything discouraged from hiking as wastefully as most people seem to think you have to.
I'll bet you could still hike on the cheap Lone Wolf. I know I can.
Lone Wolf
10-29-2008, 08:44
I'll bet you could still hike on the cheap Lone Wolf. I know I can.
never have, never will. no need to
I say if that only gets you 500 miles, what's wrong with that? Others say that will only get them 100 miles before they spend it all on beer and restraunts and motels like everyone else. Well that's crazy. Is this a hiking trail or a bar crawl?
A bar crawl is your proposed "educational" trip to Europe you hope your daughter goes on. Buying a Euro-rail pass and drinking your way across a continent isn't mentally or physically healthier than hiking a long-trail across America, IMO. :)
Well more power to you Lone Wolf. I know you took a different path, and it's been a very noble one. Just saying if I didn't live on the cheap when I was younger I would never have done the sailing I did or travelled to all the places I did. I'm just saying what worked for me. When I was younger than that if my mother didn't feed us sandwiches out of he purse instead of diners in the diner car we wouldn't have taken all those bus and train trips as a kid either. Maybe people just have too much money today.
Frugality is still a virtue.
Hiking the trail itself is basically free. It's in town where you spend the money. So, the question becomes one of how often you go to town, how long you stay there, and how well you like to live while you are there.
If you budget only $1500, then that probably means that you need to get in and get out of towns. Limited hostel stays, limited restraurant meals, limited beer, etc.
Hiking the trail itself is basically free. It's in town where you spend the money. So, the question becomes one of how often you go to town, how long you stay there, and how well you like to live while you are there.
If you budget only $1500, then that probably means that you need to get in and get out of towns. Limited hostel stays, limited restraurant meals, limited beer, etc.So basically $1 per mile is doable if you want to live a frugal and healthy lifestyle while hiking the AT, but you may not have much company. ;)
Blissful
10-29-2008, 09:08
I believe the $4000 we doled out for my 16 yr old to hike the trail was the best money we could ever spend. There is nothing better spiritually, emotionally, and physically than hiking a trail like the AT (and from one who has hiked the trail and who had been to Europe). :)
Lone Wolf
10-29-2008, 09:10
So basically $1 per mile is doable if you want to live a healthy lifestyle while hiking the AT,
gonna cost a lot more than $1 per mile
gonna cost a lot more than $1 per mile
Yeah, lwolf, it probably will, but I think JAK is right about this. Assuming you already have the gear (which is a different story...), $1 per mile really is doable. If you plan to actually keep to it, it means that:
1. Stay in a hostel once every 2 weeks to shower and do laundry. Wash in streams in between to stay fresh.
2. No beer.
3. Buy all of your food out of grocery stores, and when possible buy generic brands (off-brand poptarts, not Kellog's).
I guess I live large. I spent $285 in Damascus just to do a 5 day hike:
Gas from Lex KY to Damascus: $32
Bed & breakfast: $75
Subway sandwich: $7
Shuttle: $65; tip: $20
Breakfast at a gas station (Cowboy's?): $6.50, tip: $10
3 t-shirts to give as souveniers: $60
parking: $10
No wonder trail towns like us section hikers so much.
Lone Wolf
10-29-2008, 12:34
Shuttle: $65; tip: $20
shuttle to where and why a $20 tip?
shuttle to where and why a $20 tip?
From Atkins back to Damascus.
They were supposed to pick me up at 1pm, I called at 8:30 asking if they could come earlier, which they did right away. $20 tip because they went out of their way. I know it's excessive but I was in a great mood after a great hike. Oh well.
Lone Wolf
10-29-2008, 12:45
From Atkins back to Damascus.
They were supposed to pick me up at 1pm, I called at 8:30 asking if they could come earlier, which they did right away. $20 tip because they went out of their way. I know it's excessive but I was in a great mood after a great hike. Oh well.
next time look me up. i'd have done it for much less and refused the tip :)
max patch
10-29-2008, 12:48
I
No wonder trail towns like us section hikers so much.
They must love you at Cowboys.
Anybody that completes a thru on $700 is most likely a moocher.
Lone Wolf
10-29-2008, 13:02
Anybody that completes a thru on $700 is most likely a moocher.
that's the truth. plus they take all the stuff out of hiker boxes and skip out on hostel fees and such
To me, the question "Can I do a really cheap hike?" should always be answered, "Probably not," just as the question "Can I do a really fast hike?" should be answered the same way.
Yes, some people do really cheap hikes and some people do really fast hikes. I suspect, though, in my cynical way, that anyway who really can do either thing knows it ahead of time. Those that can don't have to ask for advice on whether it's possible or how to accomplish it. They already know.
They must love you at Cowboys.
I hope so. That's better than being despised for not being fair. I got there just as two hikers were leaving. They didn't leave a single dime for a tip and, from the looks of the table, the waitress had to bring numerous plates and probably more than one coffee refill. Anyway, these two women were working like dogs and didn't look like they were getting rich in the process, I'm on vacation and have a few extra bucks, so I didn't mind.
Yeah, lwolf, it probably will, but I think JAK is right about this. Assuming you already have the gear (which is a different story...), $1 per mile really is doable. If you plan to actually keep to it, it means that:
1. Stay in a hostel once every 2 weeks to shower and do laundry. Wash in streams in between to stay fresh.
2. No beer.
3. Buy all of your food out of grocery stores, and when possible buy generic brands (off-brand poptarts, not Kellog's).Thanks.
1. I would try and do my laundry in the field and cleanup before entering town, but a hostel now and then would be nice if the price was reasonable and there was another reason to stay in town late such as music at a cafe or something like that.
2. I think 2 beer every 2 weeks wouldn't be too bad either.
3. I think grocery stores would be my main choice, but not pop-tarts. I am not into junk food when I hike. Oatmeal, currants, a few almonds, dried soups mix, lentils, skim milk powder, honey, tea, citrus powder; those would be my main staples, and then maybe some more expensive goods, but not junk food. I'm thinking fresh fruit and vegetables, tuna, maybe even some bread and cheese and wine. I would try and eat the heavy more perishable stuff the first couple of days back on the trail. I would also like to shop at small fruit and vegetable stands if I came across them. Probably more vegetable oil once I get my weight down, so stuff that goes good with that.
It's funny how people turn to stuff like pop-tarts to save money. I don't get that. It doesn't add up either if you do the math. We never had stuff like that in our house growing up. My mother was from Scotland. That may have had something to do with it.
MARKO HANGMAN III
10-29-2008, 13:46
It sounds romantic to save money by washing your clothes in a stream (which is my water source, by the way- thanks a lot), but laundry is not a big budget killer. You can go for weeks without doing laundry. The big expenses come from:
1) buying food on the fly at convenience stores;
2) eating in restaurants in town;
3) staying at hostels/hotels;
4) buying replacement gear.
For me, #1 was necessary because I wasn't willing to plan my food ahead of time and deal with the P.O.
#2 was a big expense for me about once a week because I was HUNGRY, HUNGRY, HUNGRY. I ended up losing 32 lbs, and I'm a skinny dude as it is.
#3 was not a problem for me, because I preferred to camp for free rather than pay an establishment for a place to rest my head. The most expensive place I paid for was $23 in Maine; everyplace else was $15 or less because I shared expenses with others. This was usually a once a week expense for me.
#4 killed me because I had backpack, water filter, and shoe issues.
For my hike, I was able to save money by limiting my overnight stays in town. But I wasn't willing to cut corners when it came to food and gear.
Like I said, laundry is not a budget killer. Food, shelter, and gear can be.
I hope so.
I'm on vacation and have a few extra bucks, so I didn't mind.
Good attitude.
I am frugal to a fault, but do not mind leaving a little in my wake.
Anyone who can't figure out their own budget for a thru-hike ahead of time should plan on spending at least $3,000 in order to finish. Yes, it's possible to complete a thru-hike for less than that. It's done all the time. It takes some planning, some discipline, and some fast walking. And the ability to spend within one's means. But if you're not the budgeting type, try to start with the $3,000 and you'll have no worries. Or just section hike till the money runs out.
This should be the boiler plate post anytime this question comes up. Simple, to the point and very correct.
jersey joe
10-29-2008, 14:25
hey joe, i know you did a rather quick thruhike. did you do any town overnighters or zero days. i know you didn't spend much but did you have more funds on hand if you wanted to spend. or were you on a tight budget.
Hey Crumb,
You are right, I did do a relatively quick thru hike, 111 days. I also didn't take any zero's.
I had more funds available to me and didn't have any time constraints, the time and budget contraints were by choice.
A quicker thru hike helped reduce costs. The less time out there, the less food.
I bought almost all of my food ahead of time in bulk which saved on the cost of food.
I sent myself only 12 mail drops which saved on postage. Of course I had to carry much more food at a time which made my pack heavier. (I left springer with 10 days worth of food and I recall Wicked making fun of me because my food bad was heavier than his whole pack.)
The biggest key to not spending loads of money was staying out of towns for longer than I had to be there. And while there not blowing loads of money on services.
Jack Tarlin
10-29-2008, 15:29
Um, sorry, folks, hate to rain on the parade, but anyone attempting a thru-hike planning to live for 6 months on oatmeal, currants, and lentils is gonna be home in around a week and a half. Unless, of course, they find a bunch of spineless people to mooch off of, which is what most folks on a sub-minimal budget end up doing before they get out of Georgia.
Not for the first time, I find it more than a little amusing that some of the folks most ardently describing what one actually needs on a thru-hike are folks who've never even attempted one, never mind completed one.
Um, walk first folks, and THEN post.
It's kind of a credibility thing. :rolleyes:
Two Speed
10-29-2008, 16:07
A little off topic, but what's the objection to taking stuff from hiker boxes?
When they're available my routine is to make my grocery list, then check the hiker box before going to the grocery. If I found something I needed, well and fine. If not I was going to the grocery anyway, no big deal.
Thanks.
1. I would try and do my laundry in the field and cleanup before entering town, but a hostel now and then would be nice if the price was reasonable and there was another reason to stay in town late such as music at a cafe or something like that.
2. I think 2 beer every 2 weeks wouldn't be too bad either.
3. I think grocery stores would be my main choice, but not pop-tarts. I am not into junk food when I hike. Oatmeal, currants, a few almonds, dried soups mix, lentils, skim milk powder, honey, tea, citrus powder; those would be my main staples, and then maybe some more expensive goods, but not junk food. I'm thinking fresh fruit and vegetables, tuna, maybe even some bread and cheese and wine. I would try and eat the heavy more perishable stuff the first couple of days back on the trail. I would also like to shop at small fruit and vegetable stands if I came across them. Probably more vegetable oil once I get my weight down, so stuff that goes good with that.
It's funny how people turn to stuff like pop-tarts to save money. I don't get that. It doesn't add up either if you do the math. We never had stuff like that in our house growing up. My mother was from Scotland. That may have had something to do with it.
People may turn to Pop-Tarts to save money, but hikers turn to them because 1) they;re light 2)packable 3)readily available 4) don't require cooking/heating 5)decent amount of calories 6) somewhat tasty.
A little off topic, but what's the objection to taking stuff from hiker boxes?
When they're available my routine is to make my grocery list, then check the hiker box before going to the grocery. If I found something I needed, well and fine. If not I was going to the grocery anyway, no big deal.
It's not taking stuff that is a problem, but relying on them that is. They are communal, for all and while they exist on a first-come first-served to an extent, they exist for everyone, not for one guy to keep racing to town and clean them out before the next group gets to town.
The fact is, no one should rely on them, but they should supplement the rest of your food, gear, not be the sole producer of such goods.
Two Speed
10-29-2008, 16:12
It's not taking stuff that is a problem, but relying on them that is. . . not be the sole producer of such goods.Pretty much my understanding, too. I just view what I do as an organized method to reduce my costs somewhat while keeping food from going to the landfill.
FWIW I'm pretty picky about what I get out of hiker boxes. I've seen some pretty gnarly bags of oatmeal, trail mix and other unidentifiable stuff that I didn't like the look of.
Jack Tarlin
10-29-2008, 16:15
A-Train nailed it.
max patch
10-29-2008, 16:19
People may turn to Pop-Tarts to save money, but hikers turn to them because 1) they;re light 2)packable 3)readily available 4) don't require cooking/heating 5)decent amount of calories 6) somewhat tasty.
7) Each box is a free postcard once its emptied.
i bet you can`t go cheaper then this dude : http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=21275&catid=searchresults&searchid=18746
and everything is cheaper by the dozen
Footslogger
10-29-2008, 16:46
I've only done one thru-hike, northbound, but I've helped plan and supported my wife in hers so I have those 2 points of reference.
I found the cost of a hike (my hike, that is) to be NON-linear. In other words if I broke the hike down into arbitrary sections of miles, the "section costs" would vary.
My experience is that as the hike wears on (and you get further north a person tends to spend a little more - provided they have it to spend. For starters, things tend to cost more the further north you go. Secondly, and I am a prime example of this, the longer the hike wears on the more inclined a hiker can become to taking advantage of comforts if/when they present themselves.
I guess the point I am trying to make is that, for a first time thru-hiker, a strict budget put together in advance of a thru-hike is not likely to pan out in reality. If you are a repeat thru-hiker you would have some advantage in terms of planning and likely be in a better position to peg your overall costs.
I applaud those who were/are able to walk from Georgia to Maine for $1/mile ...but I was not able to even come close to that. Even if I stripped out the stuff "I wouldn't do if I had it to do all over again" I would have still come a lot closer to $2/mile. If I wasn't able to devote that much to a hike in advance I personally would postpone the hike until I could.
'Slogger
Um, sorry, folks, hate to rain on the parade, but anyone attempting a thru-hike planning to live for 6 months on oatmeal, currants, and lentils is gonna be home in around a week and a half. Unless, of course, they find a bunch of spineless people to mooch off of, which is what most folks on a sub-minimal budget end up doing before they get out of Georgia.
Not for the first time, I find it more than a little amusing that some of the folks most ardently describing what one actually needs on a thru-hike are folks who've never even attempted one, never mind completed one.
Um, walk first folks, and THEN post.
It's kind of a credibility thing. :rolleyes:
Well, I think it's a mistake to assume that all thru-hikes take 6 months; as far as I'm concerned, a big part of hiking the trail cheap is doing it fairly fast; sure, you'll have to eat more calories per day (and spend a bit more money per day for food), whatever little bit extra you spend per-day won't come anywhere close to the cost of 2-3 more months' worth of eating/living.
A 100-day thru-hike is 5/9 the cost of a 180-day hike. An 80-day hike, 4/9.
Anyone who can't figure out their own budget for a thru-hike ahead of time should plan on spending at least $3,000 in order to finish. Yes, it's possible to complete a thru-hike for less than that. It's done all the time. It takes some planning, some discipline, and some fast walking. And the ability to spend within one's means. But if you're not the budgeting type, try to start with the $3,000 and you'll have no worries. Or just section hike till the money runs out.That was a very helpful post. Thanks. I will try and see how I make out at home here on just $10 a day. Might be a good way to discipline my diet at the same time, and I could use some exercise to burn some extra calories to help keep it comparable.
It sounds romantic to save money by washing your clothes in a stream (which is my water source, by the way- thanks a lot), but laundry is not a big budget killer. You can go for weeks without doing laundry. The big expenses come from:
1) buying food on the fly at convenience stores;
2) eating in restaurants in town;
3) staying at hostels/hotels;
4) buying replacement gear.
For me, #1 was necessary because I wasn't willing to plan my food ahead of time and deal with the P.O.
#2 was a big expense for me about once a week because I was HUNGRY, HUNGRY, HUNGRY. I ended up losing 32 lbs, and I'm a skinny dude as it is.
#3 was not a problem for me, because I preferred to camp for free rather than pay an establishment for a place to rest my head. The most expensive place I paid for was $23 in Maine; everyplace else was $15 or less because I shared expenses with others. This was usually a once a week expense for me.
#4 killed me because I had backpack, water filter, and shoe issues.
For my hike, I was able to save money by limiting my overnight stays in town. But I wasn't willing to cut corners when it came to food and gear.
Like I said, laundry is not a budget killer. Food, shelter, and gear can be.Another very helpful post. Thanks.
Well, I think it's a mistake to assume that all thru-hikes take 6 months; as far as I'm concerned, a big part of hiking the trail cheap is doing it fairly fast; sure, you'll have to eat more calories per day (and spend a bit more money per day for food), whatever little bit extra you spend per-day won't come anywhere close to the cost of 2-3 more months' worth of eating/living.
A 100-day thru-hike is 5/9 the cost of a 180-day hike. An 80-day hike, 4/9.That's a good point. The cost of less frugal hikes are on more of a per day basis than a per mile basis. It is reasonable and commendable for younger people to want to hike faster and cheaper if they are so inclined. I really don't see a problem with encouraging that. What the **** is wrong with this site sometimes?
Um, sorry, folks, hate to rain on the parade, but anyone attempting a thru-hike planning to live for 6 months on oatmeal, currants, and lentils is gonna be home in around a week and a half. Unless, of course, they find a bunch of spineless people to mooch off of, which is what most folks on a sub-minimal budget end up doing before they get out of Georgia.
Not for the first time, I find it more than a little amusing that some of the folks most ardently describing what one actually needs on a thru-hike are folks who've never even attempted one, never mind completed one.
Um, walk first folks, and THEN post.
It's kind of a credibility thing. :rolleyes:
Seems to be a general theme in your posts Jack. How about using your experience base & wisdom to provide real and factual advice to those asking the question. IOW, how much would you bring on a thru & why? Please show an allocation of your budgeted expenses. Try being helpful instead of critical.
bigcranky
10-30-2008, 07:47
Seems to be a general theme in your posts Jack. How about using your experience base & wisdom to provide real and factual advice to those asking the question. IOW, how much would you bring on a thru & why? Please show an allocation of your budgeted expenses. Try being helpful instead of critical.
Jack already did that, several times in this thread. You might have to go back to the top and reread it.
Someone ought to write something like "The frugal hiker's companion". It doesn't need to be about dumpster diving. It should be about stuff like what the best foods really are for getting all the calories and nutrition you need, and still being able to choke it down. Also some philosophy of life stuff, which is always very personal but has alot of recurring themes that have been shared throughout the ages. Frugality doesn't have to be about being a total skin flint either. It can be a better way to better way to make sure whatever extra money you may have gets to the people that you thing really need or deserve it, while still living within the realm of acceptable and welcome social behaviour, even if on the fringe by some people's standards. You can't please everybody. In my opinion frugality is intended to be self-empowering, as both a consumer and an honest and contributing citizen. It enables each of us to make better choices, and in such a way to encourage a better and more efficient and more productive society. It's not intended to cheat anybody. It's still listed as a virtue with the boy scouts as far as I understand. But you can't please everybody.
Someone ought to write something like "The frugal hiker's companion". It doesn't need to be about dumpster diving. It should be about stuff like what the best foods really are for getting all the calories and nutrition you need, and still being able to choke it down. Also some philosophy of life stuff, which is always very personal but has alot of recurring themes that have been shared throughout the ages. Frugality doesn't have to be about being a total skin flint either. It can be a better way to better way to make sure whatever extra money you may have gets to the people that you thing really need or deserve it, while still living within the realm of acceptable and welcome social behaviour, even if on the fringe by some people's standards. You can't please everybody. In my opinion frugality is intended to be self-empowering, as both a consumer and an honest and contributing citizen. It enables each of us to make better choices, and in such a way to encourage a better and more efficient and more productive society. It's not intended to cheat anybody. It's still listed as a virtue with the boy scouts as far as I understand. But you can't please everybody.
Weathercarrot has already written an excellent article on hiking cheaply.
I completely agree that being able to control one's consumption is a virtue.
The problem, as LW and BJ keep pointing out, is that there are way too many mooching thru-hikers. For a certain number of people, attempting a thru-hike is part of the growing-up process. They're so immature that they regard everyone as an extension of their parents--people should just help them out because they've gotten themselves into a spot, usually because of poor planning and, yes, lack of money. Unfortunately they try to drag down everyone around them in the process by mooching off other hikers and abusing Trail Angels and service providers--packing too many people into motel rooms, not tipping waitresses, and so on.
I would just like to see an honest discussion on frugal hiking without the subject of mooching being brought up. There is no shame in being thrifty. In fact, it is a virtue to be encouraged, especially in our youth. Thrift isn't about cheating others out of an honest living. Mooching from others and not paying your way should most certainly be discouraged, especially when you are engaged in voluntary recreational activity like backpacking. But we don't need to chastise those whose only intention is to seek thrift, and to be thrifty, and to encourage thrift in others. Mooching is not thrift. Thrift is a virtue.
Hi Indwlkr if you really want try and hike as cheap as you can look up on the left side of the home page on this site.Their is a pull down menu you will see HIKER ADVICE when you highlite it a submenu come up in the submenu is IDEALS FOR INEXPENSIVE THUR-HIKES lot of good stuff.
:-?
Here is the quick link to that...
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22959#post22959
I would guess it will be come out of date over time, but the ideas are still there. He seems to favour alot of maildrops, which some other discourage. Clearly it worked for him. I like his ideas like carrying more food to avoid more frequent stops. Clearly again the more miles you can hike per day the easier it is to spread your resupply points further apart, even though you eat more per day.
One point that hasn't been brought up is that losing most of your excess bodyweight before your trip would save you some money by allowing you to carry more food and burn less calories per mile, even though you would have less bodyfat to burn. I wouldn't let it stop me from going however. A big part of why I would go on a thru-hike or long section hike would be to lose weight and get into better physical shape. I only bring this up to say that leaner hikers should be capable of hiking faster and hiking cheaper.
It would be interesting to see what type of foods he considered most frugal. I use oatmeal as my base, and add stuff like honey and raisins/currants and almonds as I need more calories and flavour. On 2000 calories a day when losing weight I can eat mostly oatmeal. When I burn more calories I need to add more honey and raisins/currants. If I ever get superlean I will need to add more stuff like almonds and walnuts, and even butter or margarine or vegetable oil. Other meals, same sort of idea. Stuff like oatmeal and lentils as you base calories and nutrition including fibre and protien with other stuff for flavour and variety, and increasing amounts of denser carbohydrates and fats as you start burning more calories each day and run low on excess body fat. This is natural to me, and what I try to eat at home, and what I do eat on my short 1-5 day hikes in the woods here. I think there are many ways to go on nutrition. Once you start burning alot of calories then the extra calories can come in whatever form is most palitable, even Little Debbies and Pop-Tarts and such, but I think more basic foods like oatmeal and skim milk and raisins would serve as a more frugal and healthier foundation, especially if you start out at only 8-10 miles per day.
Jim Adams
10-30-2008, 10:09
That's a good point. The cost of less frugal hikes are on more of a per day basis than a per mile basis. It is reasonable and commendable for younger people to want to hike faster and cheaper if they are so inclined. I really don't see a problem with encouraging that. What the **** is wrong with this site sometimes?
Fast USUALLY = less sights, less summits, less making of friends, less blue blazes and alot of the time, less completions due to injury. IMO you will have more enjoyment by hiking half way one year on a set amount of money and then finish the next year with cash saved over the winter. Don't use the excuse that you can't take the time off work for 2 years in a row...if your job only lets you save $300-$500 in a year for a thru, then you can afford to quit, do your hike and get another or better job when you return home. Just my opinion.
geek
Well fast is relative, but I agree that too fast is too fast, and therefore false economy.
The point is the fact that most people take xxx days and spend yyy dollars is not a good argument against a younger fitter person than myself thinking they can and should try to do it faster and cheaper than most. I think its commendable and should be encouraged. But I agree totally that doing it in 3 sections over 3 years is probably a much better choice for most people, and perhaps especially for young people wanting to hike frugally. We should really be thinking of hiking as a life-long activity as part of a healthy lifestyle, not as a once in a lifetime event. Better to spread it out. Still, everything in moderation, including moderation.
I would guess it will be come out of date over time, but the ideas are still there. He seems to favour alot of maildrops, which some other discourage. Clearly it worked for him. I like his ideas like carrying more food to avoid more frequent stops. Clearly again the more miles you can hike per day the easier it is to spread your resupply points further apart, even though you eat more per day.
One point that hasn't been brought up is that losing most of your excess bodyweight before your trip would save you some money by allowing you to carry more food and burn less calories per mile, even though you would have less bodyfat to burn. I wouldn't let it stop me from going however. A big part of why I would go on a thru-hike or long section hike would be to lose weight and get into better physical shape. I only bring this up to say that leaner hikers should be capable of hiking faster and hiking cheaper.
It would be interesting to see what type of foods he considered most frugal. I use oatmeal as my base, and add stuff like honey and raisins/currants and almonds as I need more calories and flavour. On 2000 calories a day when losing weight I can eat mostly oatmeal. When I burn more calories I need to add more honey and raisins/currants. If I ever get superlean I will need to add more stuff like almonds and walnuts, and even butter or margarine or vegetable oil. Other meals, same sort of idea. Stuff like oatmeal and lentils as you base calories and nutrition including fibre and protien with other stuff for flavour and variety, and increasing amounts of denser carbohydrates and fats as you start burning more calories each day and run low on excess body fat. This is natural to me, and what I try to eat at home, and what I do eat on my short 1-5 day hikes in the woods here. I think there are many ways to go on nutrition. Once you start burning alot of calories then the extra calories can come in whatever form is most palitable, even Little Debbies and Pop-Tarts and such, but I think more basic foods like oatmeal and skim milk and raisins would serve as a more frugal and healthier foundation, especially if you start out at only 8-10 miles per day.
You've mentioned your oatmeal, raisin, honey, currant concoction on here a good 4-6 times already. It's cheap, we get it. Have you tried living off this for months at a time, with nothing else, while trying to excercise all day? Do you truly believe you could hike 15-25 miles a day up and down mountains with 20-40lbs on your back, while burning 6000+ calories/day and persist off of some home-made granola?
No is saying you have to be a mooch to be frugal. Being frugal is commendable, IMO, and something I plan to do much more of on my next big hike. But, what some of us have been continually trying to say, is that on a long hike, it's hard to sustain energy with this type of bare-bones diet. Not to mention the psychological/mental effects of eating the same boring meal day after day.
If I could give a potential thru-hiker ONE piece of advice surrounding trail diet, it would be VARIETY, VARIETY, VARIETY. There are only so many feasible trail options. It gets to a point where switching things up and changing your options is one of the main things that keeps you excited.
I really think you can do a thur-hike for $1000.00 in point of fact i read on this site or some where else that a guy did it on $900.00. and made it all the way.
Now this is only for the trail don't incl money for geting to the trail
and home again. You could bring a solar shower with you picture below
i have a msr bag with a solar shower kit. you could only go in to town to resupply and leave. now if you want to eat in town a lot of you fast food places have $1.00 menu now so that would be a cheap way to eat in town. if you want a day off you could just camp in the woods and rest or camp close to a town and just look around. could not stay in many places.
Good Luck on what ever you decide.
http://www.campmor.com/images/personal/35283.jpg
Chill out guys!
Back on topic. I just looked up my expenses for my 2006 thru. Keep in mind that I don't drink so the beer that is so popular on the trail was not a factor. I spent $1008.34 in food (packed and in towns). My lodgings were $515.00. Without gear costs my thru was $2176. With that should come the explanation of 10 zero days, (4 spent on my husband's dime when he came to visit), lots of neros and transportation on my flip to K and then the bus ride home.
I hopscotched with a guy who did party and was well known for major yogi-ing (3 days at a wedding reception at a river) and raiding hiker boxes (2 grocery bags out of Damascus). He told me in Port Clinton he had just gone over $1000.
In short, save some money and resist the partying. $1500 is a good recommendation. Take it, hike as far as possible and enjoy every moment. If you don't finish the trail, it isn't going anywhere. Come back and continue as time/money permit.
I think a lot of it depends on your level of comfort. Here are some of my observations about the reality of cost on the trail. $130 at Neel's Gap, and that was three days into the trip. $.17 for a pack of Ramen noodles at home, $.35 to $.50 on the trail. That may not seem like much, but when you look at the big picture if everything is marked up like that then you're looking at 2-3 times as much for the same items you would buy at home.
Now if you can get by on just the necessary food to survive on the trail then that's awesome. I don't know too many people that can do that. After eating trail food for 3-5 days the first thing I want is a real meal. If you don't drink you will save a lot of money, however, a few cold beers is one of my favorite things about town stops. Hotels and hostels can be fairly inexpensive, but it also means you will be in or near town overnight with more opportunities to spend money. And then there's the money that you don't think you'll spend but you do anyway. For example I rolled into NOC on a beautiful 80 degree day. It took ali of about five minutes of sitting by the river to realize that I was done hiking for the day, even though I planned on getting a few food items and hiking out that afternoon. As a result, I spent around $90 between a room, food and a handful of frosty beverages at the paddlers pub, and that doesn't count the money I spent at the outfitters. I could go on but the point is, if you are disciplined then you can hike very cheap. I found out I'm not that disciplined, and even though I really enjoy hiking, sometimes you really don't feel moving on when there is a bed, hot food, and cold beverages close at hand.
The Solemates
10-30-2008, 14:14
we spent about $4000 on our hike in 2004 for the both of us.
From Marko. Should be repeated. ;)
Anyone who can't figure out their own budget for a thru-hike ahead of time should plan on spending at least $3,000 in order to finish. Yes, it's possible to complete a thru-hike for less than that. It's done all the time. It takes some planning, some discipline, and some fast walking. And the ability to spend within one's means. But if you're not the budgeting type, try to start with the $3,000 and you'll have no worries. Or just section hike till the money runs out.
That about sums it up. If you want specific advice, read Weather Carrot's article. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22959#post22959
WC is a very experienced, VERY disciplined hiker as an FYI.
I think a lot of it depends on your level of comfort. Here are some of my observations about the reality of cost on the trail. $130 at Neel's Gap, and that was three days into the trip. $.17 for a pack of Ramen noodles at home, $.35 to $.50 on the trail. That may not seem like much, but when you look at the big picture if everything is marked up like that then you're looking at 2-3 times as much for the same items you would buy at home.
Now if you can get by on just the necessary food to survive on the trail then that's awesome. I don't know too many people that can do that. After eating trail food for 3-5 days the first thing I want is a real meal. If you don't drink you will save a lot of money, however, a few cold beers is one of my favorite things about town stops. Hotels and hostels can be fairly inexpensive, but it also means you will be in or near town overnight with more opportunities to spend money. And then there's the money that you don't think you'll spend but you do anyway. For example I rolled into NOC on a beautiful 80 degree day. It took ali of about five minutes of sitting by the river to realize that I was done hiking for the day, even though I planned on getting a few food items and hiking out that afternoon. As a result, I spent around $90 between a room, food and a handful of frosty beverages at the paddlers pub, and that doesn't count the money I spent at the outfitters. I could go on but the point is, if you are disciplined then you can hike very cheap. I found out I'm not that disciplined, and even though I really enjoy hiking, sometimes you really don't feel moving on when there is a bed, hot food, and cold beverages close at hand.That is a very useful post. There have been times in my life, when I was younger and learned by neccessity, that it was alot simpler to live frugally. I was good at numbers and got a certain thrill out of it. Life to some turns and I had to finish the last two years of college on my own, but I did it and did it cheaply without much fuss and still managed to compete at sailing didn't have to sell my boat until I graduated. After that I went in the Navy and gave up the sailing for awhile, but the financial discipline made it easier of me to pay off my student loan faster and put off buying a vehicle alot longer than my comrades. They did better in other ways mind you. They were fine gentlemen every one of them. Anyhow, my point is that I have gotten softer later in life, and do find it harder to avoid avoidable spending. The above post is very descriptive. I believe it can be done frugally if you disciplined and focused, and it can also be done less frugally, but still sensibly, and that middle ground is probably most suitable for most folks including myself. My hat goes off to everyone that does it though, frugally, less frugally, or some other extreme. I think its good to share ideas from both extremes. I am sure there are many very good people and many good stories to share at all ends of the spectrum.
Didn't mean to come off personal about Turtle2's hike.
Simply wanted to say I think was very commendable the way she hiked her hike,
but that I also have alot of respect for those I disagree with but have hiked alot more than I.
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 17:06
Damn, I thought I'd made this pretty clear, but in case anyone missed it:
I think it'd be tough for anyone to have what most folks consider a "regular" thru-hike on less than $2500.00. I think most folks will want to budget at leats $3500 to 5000, especially if they enjoy time in town, enjoy the occasional beer, etc. Regardless of whatever one budgets, I'd add 10-15% as an emergency fund for unplanned town time; medical expenses; surprise gear replacement/repair, etc.
And note to Clured: Yep, you sure nailed it. Folks planning to finish the trail in 80 days or so will absolutely spend a whole lot less than those slower folks, no doubt about it. I'm sure this earth shattering news will come as a great relief to the two or three folks every year who plan to complete the Trail in that time frame. :rolleyes:
Over 90% of hikers take 23-27 weeks to thruhike. Telling people they can save lots of money by finishing their hikes in less than 100 days is certainly true, but it's "advice" that doesn't really apply to that many people.
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 19:07
Sorrow if you think my views are "narrow," JAK.
But they happen to be based on personal knowledge, observation, and experience.
And they happen to be based on years of long-distance backpacking on the Appalachian Trail.
Please tell us what YOUR views are based on.
Sorry JAK, and this isn't meant to be remotely disrespectful, but when a guy's comments are based on speculation, guesswork, and wishful thinking, THAT'S what I'd call narrow.
Hike more, then post.
Til then, refrain from telling people what works and what doesn't work on a thru-hike.
Because with all due respect, at present, you're talking about stuff you really aren't competent to talk about.
Yet you call my comments towards you "attacks."
Um, no, JAK. I'm merely pointing out that when it comes to subjects like the potential cost of a thru-hike, my comments are based mainly on my having hiked the Trail eight times, in addition to many additional lengthy section hikes.
If your knowledge and experience puts you in a position to speak more forthrightly when it comes to the actual cost of a long-distance A.T., hike, then by all means feel free to enlighten us.
I'll be happy to defer to your knowledge and experience after you've provided us with the details. :rolleyes:
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 19:36
Nobody's disputing that there are frugal hikers out there, many with real A.T. experience, and their comments are always welcome and useful.
Hey JAK, howz about we let this one go, and let the thread get back to it's original subject.
Cuz right now, we've established that I don't think you're remotely competent to discuss this particular subject, and you've got your knickers in a twist cuz I had the temerity to point this out.
Fine. Over and done with. Now let's hear from other folks.
Temerity eh.
OK. Let's here more from folks that are frugal like me, and experienced like you. :)
The Old Fhart
10-30-2008, 19:50
JAK-"Some other folks might want to post about hiking frugally though."If some folks have actually hiked frugally, perhaps they could post and add something substantial to the discussion. The only one here arguing about how cheap they can hike the A.T. is the one person with absolutely no experience. Perhaps by 'frugal' you mean 'delusional'. :-?
Gray Blazer
10-30-2008, 19:57
You can run for president without any presidential experience. Why can't you discuss (or argue) being frugal on the AT without thru-hiking experience (in this case JAK seems to have a lot of hiking experience)?
MARKO HANGMAN III
10-30-2008, 19:58
I have read a lot on this site about the cost of a thru hike. Some say have a few grand (3 to 5) in the bank I can see that for your bills maybe like vehicle payment but is that the real cost of a thru hike? Not including your bills? Some say you can thru with around couple hundred dollars if you stay out of town more and less mail drops. Is the food at these stores off the trail cheep enough and have a good variety of foods to choose from? Or should a person plan a well thought out food mail drop system? The cost of mail drops can get pricey at around 25 to 30 drops. The main Q here is can you do it for 3 to 5 hundred bucks? The 3 to 5 hundred bucks sounds good if I discipline myself, plus I would be doing this to get away from the city and town life for a bit along with the challenge it's self. Please help if you can I thank you.
Back to the original question, "can you do it for 3 to 5 hundred bucks?". I would love to see it done! It would take some creativity, big balls, and some epic trail magic. 99.9% of all hikers would not be able to do it. But there is always that crazy .1% out there who are up for the challenge. Who am I to say you can't do it? Go for it! And then post an article on Whiteblaze to share your experience with others.
HikerRanky
10-30-2008, 21:03
Good evening folks,
First of all, I for one have enjoyed reading this thread....
I have removed a bunch of the what I consider to be posts that contributed to the initial closure of this thread....
Should this thread get back to the point it was before I closed it again, rest assured that I will close it again, and will NOT re-open it.
Randy
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 21:06
It would not have anything to do with true "trail magic", which is generally described as experiencing the unexpected, accidental kindness of strangers.
It would not be possible to thru-hike on three to five hundred dollars without coming to DEPEND on the kindness or largess of others.
There's nothing "magical" about this. Living off table scraps, hiker boxes, dumpster diving, begging for work-for-stays, or out and out simple mooching off of ones fellow hikers and other Trail folk is not "trail magic".
Jack, what are you doing?
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 21:14
I'm trying real hard to get this thread back on track, JAK.
You wanna help out on that, that'd be nice.
Can we talk about frugal hiking and save dumpster diving and mooching for another thread?
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 21:23
You're sortsa missing the point, JAK: People that start with excessively frugal budgets invariably end up living off of other people. It is not possible to separate excessive frugality from becoming over-dependent on other people.
I could make the point that if you'd spent any appreciable time on the Trail I wouldn't have to point this out, but it's kinda like beating a dead horse.
Perhaps we could better focus on economics if we agreed to include the cost of all trail magic, handouts, theft, work-for-stay, in the operating costs of the hike. In other words, if you work at a hostel for a free night stay, or someone gives you a beer, whatever, those costs all still get added in regardless. Would that make this thread go easier?
I mean it seems there are folks that have posted in this thread that have kept their total costs down without mooching, by spending more time on the trail etc. Nobody has got it down to $500 that we know of, but a few down under $2000, and a few more under $3000 while still enjoying some town life. I'm talking total costs here, including any assistance. I think there is much to learn from these folks, as well as from the many folks that have tried and failed, if you can really call it that if they still enjoyed themselves. I think it might be easier to get to the real economics if we took any assistance, both ethical or unethical, out of the equation, by factoring it all in.
Chill out guys!
Back on topic. I just looked up my expenses for my 2006 thru. Keep in mind that I don't drink so the beer that is so popular on the trail was not a factor. I spent $1008.34 in food (packed and in towns). My lodgings were $515.00. Without gear costs my thru was $2176. With that should come the explanation of 10 zero days, (4 spent on my husband's dime when he came to visit), lots of neros and transportation on my flip to K and then the bus ride home.
I hopscotched with a guy who did party and was well known for major yogi-ing (3 days at a wedding reception at a river) and raiding hiker boxes (2 grocery bags out of Damascus). He told me in Port Clinton he had just gone over $1000.
In short, save some money and resist the partying. $1500 is a good recommendation. Take it, hike as far as possible and enjoy every moment. If you don't finish the trail, it isn't going anywhere. Come back and continue as time/money permit.I think this is one of several good examples of a successfully frugal yet still enjoyable hike, with useful information on how the budget was spent, not counting additional costs to and from home etc. Perhaps achievable only by a minority, desirable by some more, but useful and interesting information to many more of us. Like information on ultralight hikers, and ultrafast hikers, I for one would like to hear from more hikers on the successful and unsuccessful attempts and frugal thru-hiking and section hiking.
HikerRanky
10-30-2008, 21:43
I mean it seems there are folks that have posted in this thread that have kept their total costs down without mooching, by spending more time on the trail etc. Nobody has got it down to $500 that we know of, but a few down under $2000, and a few more under $3000 while still enjoying some town life. I'm talking total costs here, including any assistance. I think there is much to learn from these folks, as well as from the many folks that have tried and failed, if you can really call it that if they still enjoyed themselves. I think it might be easier to get to the real economics if we took any assistance, both ethical or unethical, out of the equation, by factoring it all in.
It seems to me that if we start including the cost of any assistance, then we will find that the TCH ( Total Cost of Hiking ) will most certainly increase, and the variance from what many have said, that a cost of $2000 - $3000 is the usual cost, is thereby less.
If we want to talk about frugality, the the truly frugal person will find multiple use materials... things such as an overquilt that also serves as a coat when not sleeping...
Jim Adams
10-30-2008, 21:45
Can we talk about frugal hiking and save dumpster diving and mooching for another thread?
Jak,
You just don't get it!:confused:
$1,500 is frugal...
$300-$500 is dumpster diving and mooching or ...going home.
geek
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 21:50
Hate to rain on anyone's parade, but in case some of you haven't been to the grocery store lately, you'll discover that stuff costs considerably more than it did a few months ago, never mind several years ago.
I'm glad someone reported a frugal hike from 2006, but by the time the hiker season of 2009 rolls around, EVERYTHING is going to cost more, particularly food, either that purchased in markets or that consumed in restaurants.
In short, was was achieved even a few short years ago is gonna cost considerably more when attempted next summer.
It seems to me that if we start including the cost of any assistance, then we will find that the TCH ( Total Cost of Hiking ) will most certainly increase, and the variance from what many have said, that a cost of $2000 - $3000 is the usual cost, is thereby less.
If we want to talk about frugality, the the truly frugal person will find multiple use materials... things such as an overquilt that also serves as a coat when not sleeping...That's right. In calculating the total actual cost of hiking you would add the cost of any assistance you received, including earned stay, but also deduct any assistance given, in terms of money or goods or car lifts or overnight stays. Still, if you did this, I think there would still be quite a variation from one person to another. Some frugal folks getting there total actual hiking costs down to perhaps $1 per mile and still enjoying themselves, most spending perhaps $3 per mile, and other spending $5 per mile or more. In terms of costs per day I think we would still see similar variation. I think variation in total actual hiking cost is acceptable and understandable. $500 we all seem to agree is not possible, or if it is it would be like some freak yet to be achieved speed record.
So I think that is what this thread is about. A reasonable discussion on the successful and unsuccessful attempts at frugal hiking, without distracting the thread by getting into all that other stuff.
Jack raises an interesting point about inflation and what the costs might be next summer. With the coming recession we might get stagflation, but we might also get deflation. If it is a serious recession we might see fewer people on the trail because they have suffered some financial losses or are focusing more on saving more for uncertain times. On the other hand, things like university enrollment often go up during a recession, as people take advantage of an opportunity to do something with some spare time between periods of better economic opportunities. Whatever, Jack has a point that to compare apples to apples we should talk in terms of 2008 costs. Projections about the economy and the future might be better left for another thread.
HikerRanky
10-30-2008, 22:12
That's right. In calculating the total actual cost of hiking you would add the cost of any assistance you received, including earned stay, but also deduct any assistance given, in terms of money or goods or car lifts or overnight stays. Still, if you did this, I think there would still be quite a variation from one person to another. Some frugal folks getting there total actual hiking costs down to perhaps $1 per mile and still enjoying themselves, most spending perhaps $3 per mile, and other spending $5 per mile or more. In terms of costs per day I think we would still see similar variation. I think variation in total actual hiking cost is acceptable and understandable. $500 we all seem to agree is not possible, or if it is it would be like some freak yet to be achieved speed record.
So I think that is what this thread is about. A reasonable discussion on the successful and unsuccessful attempts at frugal hiking, without distracting the thread by getting into all that other stuff.
So if I am reading your post correctly, you are saying that some people get their costs down to $1/mile, and most people are spending $3/mile, and the high end if $5/mile.
Given that the trail is 2,176 miles long, according to your post above, a frugal thru hike would be $2,176.00, most people would spend around $6,528, and the high end would be $10,880.
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 22:22
Most people spend less thAN $6500.00 AND MANY SPEND A LOT LESS.
And $10,880 would be VERY high end for a thru. I doubt more than 2% of hikers spend 10 grand.
Well I don't know what the mean and standard deviation are. Someone in an earlier post said it was more liek $3-$5 per mile than $1 per mile. Jack would have a better idea. I expect it is somwhat skewed, because it is limited on the low side, and somewhat open ended on the high side.
Perhaps $1 per mile is the 10 percentile
Perhaps $2 per mile is the 50 percentile
Perhaps $4 per mile is the 90 percentile.
And note to Clured: Yep, you sure nailed it. Folks planning to finish the trail in 80 days or so will absolutely spend a whole lot less than those slower folks, no doubt about it. I'm sure this earth shattering news will come as a great relief to the two or three folks every year who plan to complete the Trail in that time frame. :rolleyes:
Over 90% of hikers take 23-27 weeks to thruhike. Telling people they can save lots of money by finishing their hikes in less than 100 days is certainly true, but it's "advice" that doesn't really apply to that many people.
Jack,
I didn't mean to be facetious, and I'm certainly not trying to push a hiking style down anyone's throat. You're right - an 80-day thru-hike is a distinctly "athletic" endeavor, and certainly not something that most people would want to undertake. However, there's a big difference between 80 days and 100 days; I knew two or three people in 2007 that hiked in ~100 days and still had lots of "fun" in the conventional sense, and none of them were elite endurance athletes.
My point was that if money is a concern, and you're interested in hiking the whole trail, it just makes sense (especially if you're young) to think about saving money by hiking a bit faster than you might otherwise. Most people can hike much faster than they think; Americans seem to be a little bit timid about big miles, but it's just a cultural/psychological thing. Last summer in Spain/France I routinely saw 60-70 year-old men (and women) climb glaciated 11,000-foot mountains, and do as much as 25 miles over incredibly difficult terrain - think Katahdin, but steeper and covered in ice.
cheers.
We might arbitrarily define a frugal hike as the lower 10 percentile, in terms of total actual hiking costs. We could make some generalizations about whether those folks are more likely to be fitter faster hikers, more likely to be focused on the trail, more likely to be younger, but perhaps older also. I would guess they aren't all that different than most hikers, just able and willing to be more frugal for a variety of reasons, including neccessity in some cases. It would be most interesting to know the actual distributiuon.
I think it would be better to have some tolerance for this variation however, on both extremes, just as we have learned to do for things like gear weight and hiking speed. ;)
lonehiker
10-30-2008, 22:40
Most people spend less thAN $6500.00 AND MANY SPEND A LOT LESS.
And $10,880 would be VERY high end for a thru. I doubt more than 2% of hikers spend 10 grand.
This quote might sum it up the best. Maybe 2% are on the very high end and 2% are on the very low end. As you go up from the low end and down from the high end, the percentage of thru-hikers falling into these categories increase. Ultimately (statiticians can chirp in now with more accurate data) you would have the vast majority of hikers in the middle. So, it is possible to hike very cheap. But, not very likely. And as was mentioned earlier, those that can do this probably already know who they are. To LNDWLKER (?), don't plan on being successful on your thru-hike attemp on just 500-700 dollars. To give yourself a better chance at a successful attempt save at least 3,000. If you do if for less look at it as money in the bank. If you can't raise the additional money simply start and go as far as the money will take you. Just be prepared mentally for whatever happens.
Good luck on your attempt.
CrumbSnatcher
10-30-2008, 22:41
i don't drink beer very often, hostels hardly ever. maybe 6-9 motels on a thruhike.don't pay for shuttles or slackpacking always enjoyed a restraunt meal whenever i wanted or could.(IMO, money spent on food whether at a grocery store or a restraunt was never an extra exspense) i spend around $4,500 on a hike. the dollor a mile has been around forever. the last few years i tell everybody two dollors a mile. jacks right the cost of food is sky rocketing. nothing wrong with having set aside more money than you want to spend. yeah i can name that tune in three notes and you in two. this ain't a game show. your going to get all the people planning on hiking thinking they won't need much,when the first time hikers will spend more? more hostels and shuttles and more places to spend,spend ,spend. yeah you don't have to spend alot but i bet they will. all im saying is plan more and if you walk away from the trail with money left over. GREAT. $ 2.25 a mile thats my guess,did i win anything?
I would separate grocery food from restaraunt food, but my prime motivation for saving money by buying grocery food wisely would be to be able to spend some on restaruant food. I think I could pass up on motels more, but I don't know that. Depends on the price. I don't know, just curious, but I think we should expect some reasonable variation.
So perhaps $2.25 is the mean, or the median, on the AT.
I am not so sure what the 10 percentile is yet, and that is what I am curious about.
Jack Tarlin
10-30-2008, 22:59
Most folks these days spend between $3500.00 and $5000.00
I think this has now been stated around half a dozen times.
Will stating it another half dozen times make it any clearer? :rolleyes:
MARKO HANGMAN III
10-30-2008, 23:17
I would separate grocery food from restaraunt food, but my prime motivation for saving money by buying grocery food wisely would be to be able to spend some on restaruant food. I think I could pass up on motels more, but I don't know that. Depends on the price. I don't know, just curious, but I think we should expect some reasonable variation.
So perhaps $2.25 is the mean, or the median, on the AT.
I am not so sure what the 10 percentile is yet, and that is what I am curious about.
The 10 percentile is exactly $1.09. Now let's go hiking.
Spend as much or as little as you can afford. Stay as short or as long as you can afford. For the love of God, go hiking, isn't that what this site is about?
Start at point A and walk toward point B. The journey is the destination. Walk until you are done walking.
stranger
10-31-2008, 02:17
I've never thru-hiked but I've done three, 500+ mile section hikes over the years. What I've noticed is that hikers will generally spend what they have.
So if you have $2000, you will spend it - and if you have $7000, you will probably spend it. I wonder if there are hikers out there who have had unlimited resources and kept their budget to $2000 - $3000? I wouldn't think so, other than the odd exception.
Personally, I wouldn't attempt a thru with less than $5000, terminus to terminus not including gear replacement or unforseen circumstances
Most folks these days spend between $3500.00 and $5000.00
I think this has now been stated around half a dozen times.
Will stating it another half dozen times make it any clearer? :rolleyes:Some of us are interesting in those hikers that spend less that $3500, or the 10th percentile whatever that is, without trying to belittle them. That's what this thread is about. Are you seriously saying we shouldn't care about the 10th percentile, or the bottom 25%, or however I have to say it? I don't think I can make that any clearer.
I can understand how some service providers might be less interested in this group.
What about some of the rest of us? I can't belive its so hard to talk about how the most frugal 20% of hikers spend their money without some folks getting all up in arms. It's like trying to talk about how much weight the most least weight carrying 20% of hikers choose and carry their clothing and gear, or how fast the fastest 20% of hikers hikers hike and where they stop and how much food they eat. Why is this so damned hard?
LMFAO
If you are not interested in the most frugal 20% of hikers, why not just stay out of this thread?
Maybe a frugal hikers forum is needed? :p
Lone Wolf
10-31-2008, 06:13
Some of us are interesting in those hikers that spend less that $3500, or the 10th percentile whatever that is, without trying to belittle them. That's what this thread is about. Are you seriously saying we shouldn't care about the 10th percentile, or the bottom 25%, or however I have to say it? I don't think I can make that any clearer.
I can understand how some service providers might be less interested in this group.
What about some of the rest of us? I can't belive its so hard to talk about how the most frugal 20% of hikers spend their money without some folks getting all up in arms. It's like trying to talk about how much weight the most least weight carrying 20% of hikers choose and carry their clothing and gear, or how fast the fastest 20% of hikers hikers hike and where they stop and how much food they eat. Why is this so damned hard?
LMFAO
If you are not interested in the most frugal 20% of hikers, why not just stay out of this thread?
Maybe a frugal hikers forum is needed? :p
oh brother :rolleyes:
Is it really that difficult to understand and accept that 20% of hikers are in the lowest 20 percentile of spending, on or about the 10th percentile? LOL
Maybe a frugal hikers forum is needed? :p
There's not that much to say. Weathercarrot has summed up the strategies. A few people a year do it. Most people who think they're going to hike cheaply fail miserably and end up cutting their hikes short. Occasional statistics collectors (Johnny Swank, where are you?) gather information on it.
Lone Wolf
10-31-2008, 06:58
close the thread. nothin' more to say
20% of hikers, but nothing more to say.:rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
10-31-2008, 07:20
:rolleyes:
20% of hikers, but nothing more to say.:rolleyes:
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Why do we marginalize hikers that are outside of our norm?
Lone Wolf
10-31-2008, 07:22
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
You might not think its a good question Lone Wolf, but others might.
:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: :rolleyes::rolleyes:
1. Fast Hikers
2. Ultralight Hikers
3. Frugal Hikers
4. Hikers that have a perverse affinity for wearing wool.
Perhaps frugal hikers need a rallying cry, like "We're here and we're thrifty!"
Doesn't seem to have a ring to it. LOL
Homer&Marje
10-31-2008, 07:28
It's a great question. Especially for those of us that have never done a thru hike and money is a giant concern of that trip. Appreciate all the info provided in this thread, glad it was re opened so that I could post this.
Thanks Homer&Marje.
If you ever start a dual personality thread I will support you on that. I'm a Gemini. ;)
Homer&Marje
10-31-2008, 07:41
Thanks Homer&Marje.
If you ever start a dual personality thread I will support you on that. I'm a Gemini. ;)
Roses are red
Violets are blue
I'm schizophrenic
AND SO AM I!!!!!
We should really consider this thread, I'll work out the details with my partner here. Who said I wanted to start that thread. Well there is a demand for it damnit! I don't care it might expose me for who I am. Stop, don't you realizing your typing too! WHAT WILL THEY THINK!!!! Oh the humanity of it all.
beat a dead horse all you like, but the low budget thru-hikers i have met never put any thought into it and generally spend what they have partying in town and then go crying to daddy for more money so they can finish their hike, otherwise they go home early, broke and whiny
OK Tin Man. Thanks for that.
But I'm sure not everyone interested in hiking more economically is like that.
I don't think we should marginalize all hikers that try and spend in the lower 20%.
Homer&Marje
10-31-2008, 07:51
My father would laugh at me if I was halfway through the AT and called and asked for money. But then again, I dislike most "town" or "city" scenarios so partying in town for me would include laundry a cheeseburger and a pint of Jack to go.
I just couldn't see spending more than an afternoon or 1 night maybe in town, unless due to injury and then obviously depending on severity, might cancel the whole trip.
In fact I'm sure most hikers are frugal most of the time, so they can spend more at other times.
Homer&Marje
10-31-2008, 07:51
But if LW is sponsoring, Gray Blazer and I are gonna do it with no days off:D
In fact I'm sure most hikers are frugal most of the time, so they can spend more at other times.Perhaps I should have said that most hikers are frugal some of the time, and some hikers are frugal most of the time.
This thread should really be a thread for everyone without demonizing thrift.
Homer&Marje
10-31-2008, 08:01
I'm a very frugal hiker, I buy ramen in BULK. Seriously, Marje is mad, I bought a LOT of Ramen. It's like twinkies though, they'll never go bad.
Just remember folks, their is a work for stay program at some of the pay sites along the AT, Get in early. Get to work:D Won't kill ya.
I buy my hiking food in 'bulk' for each trip when I hike here at home for 2-5 days. I find it cheaper but also easier to pack. By 'bulk' I don't mean 20 pound bags of oatmeal. I usually buy in 1/2 pound and 1 pound quantities, the smallest sizes on the grocery shelves that are still reasonably priced. Also it tends to be less prepared and packaged foods. Instead of buying those boxes of instant oatmeal packages I buy a small bag of oats, and not neccessarily quick oats. They are cheaper, but I also perfer them, and you can usually get them in the baking section in a smaller bag like 1kg. That's more than even I can choke down on a 5 day trip, but if I was thru-hiking I might still buy that size even if it lasted me 2 or 3 resupplies. The stuff I add to oatmeal to make it more palatable and make the calories denser is stuff like honey in 500ml jars, raisins or currants in 500g bags, almonds in 100g bags (they are pricey but a nice addition). There is other stuff you can add to oatmeal, and you can have it different every day. You can do the same idea with soups for supper, adding a handful of lentils to dry vegetable soup mixes. With the money saved on staples you can buy tuna pouches, beef jerky, other stuff. Over a long trip you can stick with the same general idea but switch from oats to grits for a while, or switch from soups to noodles, maybe try ramen. You don't need as much variety on a single leg as you do from one leg to the next. Bread and cheese and apples might be a nice change on a short leg or for the first couple of days of a longer leg. Once you get leaner you will need to find more ways to add stuff like olive oil. Still I think everyone has certain comfort foods they might stick with or keep going back to. For me it is stuff like oats and honey and currants. I used to use alot more skim milk powder but I've been backing off on that lately. Still drink alot of tea with lots of milk and honey though. Sometimes I bring a 1kg jar of honey instead of a 500ml jar but that is usually in winter when I need a little extra emergency food. Honey is very compact and useful carbs, easy to ration when neccessary with bark tea, relatively affordable at least up here, and easy to put back on the shelf what I don't use when I get back. On a thru-hike I might carry 1kg through the 100 mile wilderness, with that extra 500ml being that extra insurance, in case I decide not to go for that burger at the WHL or whatever. Anyhow, these are just ideas based on my experience up here and no experience on the AT, but I think they are ideas that are flexible enough to be modified as I work my way south, of north, or whatever. I might have better luck going SOBO as Maine seems more familiar to me, and my natural curiousity about the Southern Appalachians can help draw me further along the trail. Damascus will be a stop for sure. It will be interesting to see what sort of a welcome is waiting for me there. ;) LOL
HikerRanky
10-31-2008, 08:33
Folks, please remember what the original questions were:
I have read a lot on this site about the cost of a thru hike. Some say have a few grand (3 to 5) in the bank I can see that for your bills maybe like vehicle payment but is that the real cost of a thru hike?
As has been quoted and stated a lot on this thread, this seems to be the majority....
Some say you can thru with around couple hundred dollars if you stay out of town more and less mail drops.
Obviously this is the sticking point. This is the frugal aspect, and I think that the majority consensus is that a frugal hike is around $1000 - $1500... If you want to discuss doing a thru-hike on this budget, then those that advocate that a thru hike can be done for that figure begin with posting lists of what you would take, complete with quantity and such... Everyone posts gear lists for critique, so why can't those that are advocating a frugal hike post a list of what they could do it for... nothing vague, start a plan and post it for critique. Remember, Weathercarrot wrote his article (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22959#post22959) in 2003, and it was a $1000 thru hike...
Is the food at these stores off the trail cheep enough and have a good variety of foods to choose from? Or should a person plan a well thought out food mail drop system? The cost of mail drops can get pricey at around 25 to 30 drops. The main Q here is can you do it for 3 to 5 hundred bucks?
Here is the main question, and I think it has been answered.... no one that we know of has done a thru hike on $500.
Good luck on planning out a 2009 thru hike on $1000 - $1500.... and I look forward to seeing the results.
Randy
I think the work-for-stay programs are a great idea. I would most likely leave that for the younger hikers, though I wouldn't mind doing a little work while staying at some hostels rather than leaving a tip. Hiker boxes I haven't figured out yet. It would be my intention to put in as much as I took out, but I wouldn't question others. Trail magic is pretty subtle up here. From what I've read it can get pretty overwhelming at times on the AT. I would like to think that I could return whatever generousity was given to me on what part of the trail to others on another part of the trail, but its been my experience that some acts are pretty hard to follow. Sometimes you have to wait before you can pass on such charity, but I would like to think I will learn enough from others to do likewise, and that by being thrifty in life I might be in a better position to do so when called upon to do so. I am exactly not sure what my current balance sheet is like in that regard. I have done a few good things for some, but some others in my past have been very tough acts to follow. I have learned to value thrift, as a means to charity, not charity as a means of thrift.
I agree that we have answered the question about whether it can be done for $300 -
$500. Perhaps we could open up another thread about doing for $1500-$2500, total actual costs not including gear and major transportation to from home. Perhaps that could be left for another day.
Have you blown a gasket?Is this a sensitive subject for you?
Obviously this is the sticking point. This is the frugal aspect, and I think that the majority consensus is that a frugal hike is around $1000 - $1500... If you want to discuss doing a thru-hike on this budget, then those that advocate that a thru hike can be done for that figure begin with posting lists of what you would take, complete with quantity and such... Everyone posts gear lists for critique, so why can't those that are advocating a frugal hike post a list of what they could do it for... nothing vague, start a plan and post it for critique. Remember, Weathercarrot wrote his article (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22959#post22959) in 2003, and it was a $1000 thru hike...That would be a logical way to continue this thread or start another. Perhaps another day.
Thanks Randy
jersey joe
10-31-2008, 08:52
The best places to do work for stay are in the whites. There is a fee for using shelters and campsites. I did work for stay at three campsites and one Hut. Yeah, cleaning out a freezer in a hut after hiking 20 miles sucked but it beat paying $80 to stay there.
I had a summer job in a food warehouse. Cleaned out alot of food lockers. Cleaned the washrooms. Actually it was rather rewarding to clean the washrooms of these honest workers, and it wasn't that hard. It was easier to make friends after that. They called me the brain surgeon. Not sure why as I was in engineering not medicine. I was young at the time as I started university at 16. Perhaps that was it. The only job I hated there was dumping the rotten tomatoes into the trash compactor. If the barrel of tomatoes got too full before the forklift guy brought it out of the packing department it would be to heavy to hold onto when he lifted my up and I dumped it in, so I would have to take the key and go in after it and retrieve the barrel while up to my knees in rotten tomatoes and other trash. Good times.
Have you blown a gasket?
Must be a keyboard engineer testing how long until the paint on the letters wear off or the actual keys stopping working.
Hey, its not bad work if you can get it.
Any other frugal hikers out there?
Lone Wolf
10-31-2008, 09:29
Hey, its not bad work if you can get it.
obviously you need a job cuz you're on here 20 hours a day.
The Old Fhart
10-31-2008, 09:30
In 2000 I hiked into Damascus with a 'thru hiker' I'd met and hiked on and off with for a couple of days. While he was sitting at The Place doing some calculations he told me he figured he didn't have enough money to go any further. He did, however, have enough left to buy a bongo drum and drink for Trail Days. :rolleyes:
If you're planning on thru hiking the A.T. you'd better plan on having all the money you could possibly need rather than trying to low-ball it and blowing what could be a chance of a lifetime. There are always packs, shoes, etc., that need to be replaced along the way as well as many other unforeseen expenses. Better to have the money and not spend it than to need it and not have it. Logistics, careful planning, and proper budgeting are important parts of any thru hike.
Almost all of the posters here have related stories and personal experiences about hikers who have tried to be 'frugal' which almost always translates to 'mooch' and they have become pariahs and had to drop off the trail for several reasons. If you choose to disregard this advice that has come from actual experience and want to rely on a 'guess' you have that you know better than people who have hiked the trail, you do so at your own risk.
Remember, Weathercarrot wrote his article (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?p=22959#post22959) in 2003, and it was a $1000 thru hike...
I am finding weathercarrot's info very helpful for my upcoming hike, but he does not go into a lot of detail on being frugal with food, what types etc. his article is really a great plan to stay out of expensive towns, which will be a serious goal of mine.
As far as hiking frugally, on my last hike, 2 nights three days, i tried to see if i could hike on nothing but food from the dollar store. It worked out pretty well. The one in my town had packets of salmon and tuna for a dollar a piece, i think in like three ounce servings maybe four or something. I bought a big box of rotini pasta for a dollar and ate portions of that with chicken spread, although either the pasta or the spread had a real funny taste to it, which i verified upon returning home and testing leftovers.
I know that well into my thru hike my appetite will grow much larger, and i will need more food, but i noticed on this three day hike 25 dollars worth of groceries brought me home with plenty of leftovers. A couple more dinners and a lunch, then some snacks.
I stand corrected.
Service providers are interested in the lower 20% of spenders.
They are particularly interested in them spending more. :D
Have you blown a gasket?
Must be a keyboard engineer testing how long until the paint on the letters wear off or the actual keys stopping working.
obviously you need a job cuz you're on here 20 hours a day.
Hey JAK, hint, hint:D
Yeah yeah, but I owe it to the frugal hiker community to fight the repression. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o76WQzVJ434
JAK: Perhaps I should have said...
Perhaps you should donate 10.00 to WB so you can edit out 3/4 of the bs you post and spare everyone here the needless filtering out of said bs.
lonehiker
10-31-2008, 09:42
I know that well into my thru hike my appetite will grow much larger, and i will need more food, but i noticed on this three day hike 25 dollars worth of groceries brought me home with plenty of leftovers. A couple more dinners and a lunch, then some snacks.
So your 25 dollars bought you 4 days worth of food appx. That equates to 6 dollars a day. So, 6 X 150 = 900. That is just for trail food.......
Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
no, you are being a JAK off :D
The Old Fhart
10-31-2008, 09:48
Lonehiker-"So your 25 dollars bought you 4 days worth of food appx. That equates to 6 dollars a day. So, 6 X 150 = 900. That is just for trail food......."...and that was probably low prices at a local supermarket. A lot of the food you buy along the trail may be in smaller stores where the price is much higher. That $900 spent locally might translate to $1500 along the trail.
P.S. Tin Man, your last post was great!:D
can anyone come up with a five dollar a day grocery list that is feasible for thru hiking?
lonehiker
10-31-2008, 09:52
...and that was probably low prices at a local supermarket. A lot of the food you buy along the trail may be in smaller stores where the price is much higher. That $900 spent locally might translate to $1500 along the trail.
I agree entirely. I posted earlier that I had food costs between 7-8 dollars and as high as 10 per day. I did have a few re-supplies that were in th 4-5 dollar range, but they were the exception not the rule.
I can come up with a $25 dollar grocery list that has enough calories for 5 days and 50 miles, but there would be some additional costs in the trail town for most frugal hikers.
I spend about $10 on food for 3 days when I hike the Fundy Footpath, 60km when you include the two trails at each end. I spend way more on gas getting there and back.
superman
10-31-2008, 09:57
I have no interest in being a frugal hiker. Not that I throw money away. I just am not interested, in the slightest, for a work for stay deal. I also don't want to pay to stay in a place where I have to make the bed and take out their trash. I don't care about cooking privileges. I'd rather go to a decent, non-chain restaurant. I'd rather pay for a shuttle ride than stand on the side of the road and try to not look menacing. However, I accept what the trail offers. :-?
Two Speed
10-31-2008, 10:00
Come and see the violence inherent in the system. Help! Help! I'm being repressed!JAK, at this point you've made 70 out of 190 posts. 'Nuff said.
From some of the earlier posts by frugal hikers I gathered that on a $1500 budget, $500 was for grocery food, $500 was for additional food including restaraunts, and $500 was for hostel stays. Other frugal hikers might slice it up differently, but on $1 per mile only about $0.33 of that is spent on food that you pack. If you eliminated the restraunt food this might go up to $0.50 per mile. If you doubled ot tripled your restraunt budget, to $0.67 or $1 for each trail mile, the grocery bill might go down somewhat, but you still need to eat on the trail. As many have said it is mostly about reducing the number of times you eat and stay in trail towns.
JAK, at this point you've made 70 out of 190 posts. 'Nuff said.Are you saying that as a moderator?
Two Speed
10-31-2008, 10:02
Not a moderator on this forum, if that's what you're asking.
OK. Just checking.
I think some people are simply against frugal hiking, for whatever reason.
I think people should keep posting anyway.
Two Speed
10-31-2008, 10:08
I'm not opposed to frugal hiking, and do try to do that. However, as a paying member of this site I do think you've put in your $0.02 multiple times and now would be a good time to let some other folks join the conversation.
the goat
10-31-2008, 10:12
i spent roughly $2200 on my hike in '01. i spent 6 months on the trail and really had no money left for town stops for the last 400-500 miles.
things i did to save money:
-started hand-rolling my cigarettes
-bought beer from the store rather than a bar
-drank natty light as opposed to guinness
-bought meat & veggies from the store & cooked them in the woods rather than going to a restaurant
-stayed at no hotels, only reasonably-priced hostels
i had about $3 to my name when i finished, but i did it. while it's possible, i certainly wouldn't recommend doing the trail with much less than that; there are already enough variables to end a thru hike w/o adding no money to the list. i've seen several hikers have to get off the trail b/c their money ran out, believe me, that sucks.
the goat
10-31-2008, 10:14
that said, i've also seen many who have run out of money who start depending on those around them, which also sucks.
Frugal Transportation to and from the trail.
What about transportation/walking distance to and from the trail? Is it feasible to walk to and from the trailhead for resupply, if you can stretch them out more? Are the towns closer to the trail more expensive, or less expensive, or does it vary? Should most shuttle service be avoided by walking or skipping certain towns, or are same practically neccessary in order to hit critical resupply points or particularly notable towns without adding a 10 mile road hike? Are some of the road hikes to and from the trail just as pleasant as parts of the trail itself? Thoughts?
Frugal is what you do BEFORE an adventure and possible once in a lifetime experience. You practice thrift so you will have the funds needed for your vacation and hike that you have been planning on, dreaming of and waiting for.
I have hiked what you call frugal and I have hiked with the kinds of funds the experienced hikers in this thread have suggested. Frugal can really suck. It can force you off the trail, make your hike a miserable challange and may turn you into a mooch. Having proper funds will assist you in having a successful hike that is pleasant.
The Solemates
10-31-2008, 10:20
ole' JAK here is getting to be like MNSmith....9999 posts on one thread!
I have heard that from many but I have also heard from other experienced hikers that it is possible to hike frugally and still enjoy yourself without being a mooch.
I think the people that don't like posts about frugal hiking should stop posting about JAK.
Lone Wolf
10-31-2008, 10:23
ole' JAK here is getting to be like MNSmith....9999 posts on one thread!
at least smitty hikes
Lone Wolf
10-31-2008, 10:23
at least smitty hikes
and works
The Solemates
10-31-2008, 10:24
Frugal Transportation to and from the trail.
What about transportation/walking distance to and from the trail? Is it feasible to walk to and from the trailhead for resupply, if you can stretch them out more? Are the towns closer to the trail more expensive, or less expensive, or does it vary? Should most shuttle service be avoided by walking or skipping certain towns, or are same practically neccessary in order to hit critical resupply points or particularly notable towns without adding a 10 mile road hike? Are some of the road hikes to and from the trail just as pleasant as parts of the trail itself? Thoughts?
we lived about 2 hrs from springer, so had friends drive us there.
family took a Eastern Seaboard vacation excursion to pick us up in ME.
so we were blessed to have $0 transportation costs.
and I'm not sure that we ever paid someone to shuttle us into town/back to trail while on our hike (although I know we offered several times) it was rather easy to hitch a ride most of the time, and if it was less than a few miles we typically just walked.
superman
10-31-2008, 10:32
ole' JAK here is getting to be like MNSmith....9999 posts on one thread!
I'd posted earlier in the thread and thought I was done with it. Then it seemed like we were turning the compost pile. That's the advantage of hiking with a different person every day. If you become redundant, no one knows.:)
Let's see now.
There were 500+ NOBOs who finished this year. There will probably be 60ish SOBOs who finish. I'll use a working figure of 600 completed thru-hikes in a year.
There might be one of those hikers who had the level of spending JAK is talking about. I think he (the Frugal Hiker) has already posted.
There were probably at least 600 would-like-to-have-been-thru-hikers who quit their thrus because they either ran out of money or lost their will to hike. IMO, a major reason for losing the will to hike is poor diet (i.e., very cheap, low-quality, not-enjoyable-to-eat food) or just lack of fun...such as squatting out there in the woods after multiple days of rain when all the other hikers have gone to town for a few good meals and a warm, dry, place to sleep.
Anyone who has done a long hike even once (me) has met these sad people. Anyone who has spent much time in trail towns or section hiking has met these sad people. Anyone who has done multiple long hikes has met scores of these sad people. And don't fool yourself, they ARE sad.
OTOH, there are probably less than 10 members of Whiteblaze who have actually thru-hiked for less than $1500 and can therefore post knowledgeably and authoritatively about it.
Is it any wonder that almost all the posts on this thread are from people who are blowing smoke about what they'd like to do on some theoretical someday long hike, or people who say hiking really cheaply is not for almost anybody, and that it's silly to try to convince people that they can do it when so many others have failed?
Lone Wolf
10-31-2008, 10:36
year after year i see the frugal idiots here in town. this is usually their katahdin, flat broke busted and malnourished hitching home to live off mom and dad :cool:
It's pretty simple. Listen to the folks here who are quoting realistic budget numbers. Then leave with 2 or 3 times that much (this might include working 2-3 jobs) so you are insured of having the money to finish.
Once you have spent a little time on the trail, figure out how much you need and whether having a frugal hike would be a fun challenge, or whether you need the creature comforts.
The idea of people, who are sitting on the couch at home in front of a computer pontificating about living off of bulk cereal and going without a shower or bed for 3 months is awfully funny.
HikerRanky
10-31-2008, 11:18
Try as I have to keep it open, it seems that we are not going to try to live up to the challenge I placed earlier..... Oh well, at least I tried.
Closed subject....