View Full Version : Trail Runners in cold wet March
gonewalkabout
10-28-2008, 12:14
I was planning to start my 09 attempt in leather boots due to the greater likelyhood of having cold wet weather and switching to TRs in April. Those of you how have throughed in TRs what do you do in march? I know about goretex and sealskin socks. Are you feet warm enough? What do you do in camp? Goretex Vs Sealskin, any thoughts? If you used TRs in winter like through iking would you use them again or not?
bigcranky
10-28-2008, 14:26
I wear trail runners all year long. In cold wet weather I wear Goretex trail runners with wool socks and gaiters. My feet are warm, and almost always dry. In camp I wear rubber clogs (Waldies, but Crocs will do), except in the depths of real winter when I wear down booties. (Note: down booties not recommended for March weather.)
Note too that I am talking about hiking in the Southern Appalachians, not the Whites or any other much colder locale.
I used Trail Runners for my Thru hike in 07 and they worked great. I will say that 07 was a drier year than most. My feet were warm except for some very cold wet weather in the Smokies, single degits. A few of those mornings my feet were very cold until I got going. The cold would have not been a problem if I could have kept them dry.
One of the nice things about trail runners is that they dry out much faster than boots.
In campo I used crocks
I would use trail runners again
wrongway_08
10-28-2008, 15:05
Know a good deal of people who wear them in the snow. If they are comfy, wear them.
One good thing is they will unfreeze faster then regular boots and a good deal faster then gortex boots.
I've used leather boots, trail runner, and cross country ski boots in winter. I used to swear by one over the other but I think the most important thing in snow is to have some extra room and a good system and some practice at drying out your socks and boots.
Johnny Swank
10-28-2008, 16:14
Trailrunners may suit you fine, and they'll dry faster than full leather boots. Sealskin or neoprene socks work OK in really sloppy conditions, but be careful to let your feet dry out whenever possible (they'll likely be damp from sweat.)
Just an anecdote, but I crossed the Smokies during my SOBO in late December. I was wearing Chaco sandals (with sealskins and heavy socks), another guy was wearing light fabric hikers, and a couple had full leather boots. Lots of snow, slush, rain, ice, etc, but everyone did fine except for the freeze/thaw/freeze cycle when it got below 15 degrees.
Trail runners worked fine for me in the early springtime, but packed three extra pair of Smartwool socks during the snow/sleet season.
garlic08
10-28-2008, 21:42
Ditto on trailrunners for me, they worked great in snow. Pickle and I were more comfortable than most leather booters in a blizzard in the Smokies last April. One trick we tried that worked pretty well was taking a plastic grocery bag, cutting it in half, and putting it over our socks inside our shoes in slushy snow, like a bootie. We joked about our special Walmart goretex socks. We only did that for an hour or two at a time, worried about soaking our skin too much. It was easy enough to keep the shoes and socks thawed out by just sleeping with them under my knees, outside the bag. It was a great way to hike. Good luck.
One trick we tried that worked pretty well was taking a plastic grocery bag, cutting it in half, and putting it over our socks inside our shoes in slushy snow, like a bootie. We joked about our special Walmart goretex socks.
I once read about this tip on rec.outdoors (usenet) many moons ago. The poster called it Bagtex. :)
Used trail runners in the snowy Smokies in 07 - with neopreme socks. And in 03, when it rained all the time I used GoreTex socks. Both worked, but the neopreme was better for me. In each case, I wore wool socks under the outer socks. When it got below the mid 20's in the snow (i.e., when it was dry enough), I used wool socks exclusively. And I always wore gaiters. The sock combinations were versatile enough that I was fairly comfortable in trail runners - but in 03, everything was wet all the time, so my feet were not super dry. I would have done better, I think, in neopreme.
I once read about this tip on rec.outdoors (usenet) many moons ago. The poster called it Bagtex. :)
The method I've heard about is using two bags on each foot. One against the skin or liner if you use them, as a vapor barrier, the other over the sock to keep outside moisture where it belongs. Supposedly keeps the socks nice and dry (warm). Never tried it personally, so cannot speak to it's effectiveness, but it makes sense.
we used to do that when we were little kids and would be out in the snow for hours upon hours and usually came in just early of frostnip and hypothermia. mom gave us a bag for each foot (over the sock) to help keep the water out. heheh
we used to do that when we were little kids and would be out in the snow for hours upon hours and usually came in just early of frostnip and hypothermia. mom gave us a bag for each foot (over the sock) to help keep the water out. heheh
Kept your feet warmer when it was sub-zero, too.
I have tried waterproof socks, and was really interested in getting them off my feet.
MileMonster
10-29-2008, 09:38
In '04 (the year of my thru) there was quite a bit of spring snow in NC/TN, especially in the Unaka - Erwin - Roan area, and then again over Mt Rogers. Over 2 feet in some places. I hiked in the Montrail Vitesse which is mostly mesh. I really didn't have much trouble keeping my feet warm. I used shopping bags as liners some days. The worst was getting going on cold mornings and having to put my feet in frozen shoes. But any wet shoe, even water saturated leather, will freeze up at night. I could have kept my wet shoes in the sleeping bag with me at night to keep them from freezing, but I didn't like that option either. Rain wasn't a problem at all, didn't make my feet too cold. Shoes get wet, then they dry. If it were a particularly wet year, like '03, I think walking in wet shoes day after day would cause some health issues. Not something I had to deal with in '04, though.
- MM.
The method I've heard about is using two bags on each foot. One against the skin or liner if you use them, as a vapor barrier, the other over the sock to keep outside moisture where it belongs. Supposedly keeps the socks nice and dry (warm). Never tried it personally, so cannot speak to it's effectiveness, but it makes sense.
Sounds like a poor man's version of the mickey mouse winter boots? (http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-mickey-mouse-boots.htm)
Seems like it would work well. I'll have to try it this winter as a test. :)
Blissful
10-30-2008, 19:52
I did not use my runners to start - began using them in May. Still got wet feet with my gore tex boots and they took forever to dry. Not fun. I know the runners dry much quicker and much less of a blister issue. With that I would definitely start in them rather than risk foot problems early on in big leather boots that can force a change in your hike.
MARKO HANGMAN III
10-30-2008, 20:10
I used trail runners for my entire thru-hike this year. I decided to take my chances with snow rather than blisters. I ran into snow several times, so I had to be careful to step in other people's footprints to keep my shoes dry, which almost worked. When my feet eventually became wet, I was not miserable as long as I kept moving. Once I got to the shelter, I would put on my dry socks.
I never regreted my decision to forgo the boots. Go with the trail runners.
hopefulhiker
10-30-2008, 20:43
In 05 I started out with the Vasque Sundowners.. It was a really wet year.. I started out in the middle of March.
Even though the boots were supposed to be gore tex lined ,I ended up painting them with siicone to waterproof them.. This resulted in very sweaty socks and wet feet anyway.
I switched to Montrail Hardrocks in Damascus and used them (about three pairs) the rest of the way. I did wear the short OR gaitors with them..
I hiked late into October in Maine with them during the major floods they had.. I was about shin deep in water most of the time.. I just took extra dry socks and kept moving..
If I were going to do it again I would start out with trailrunners and short gaitors.....
Has anyone done any tests on trail runners to see how much water they absorb if you dunk them and drain them upside down for a minute, and then run around a track with them for 5 minutes, or something like that. I know the models change to fast anyways for such a test to be much good, but I am wondering how much trail runners vary in terms of there weight when wet and how fast they dry. Probably doesn't vary much.
Has anyone sewn a gator to trail runners to make a sort of mukluk for winter?
Jim Adams
10-30-2008, 21:29
I used ankle high light hikers in 1990.
Vasque Sundowners from march to may, TR from may to Gorham, N.H. and back to Sundowners from Gorham to Katahdin in 2002. Both systems worked good.
geek
It just occurred to me that used sneakers in lots of snow with multiple stream crossings back in 2002. (The days were warm, however. But, cold nights)
Worked like a champ.
http://www.pmags.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=4227&g2_serialNumber=1&g2_GALLERYSID=9b7269e0127675108ae6001d1d0952b4
If Nike sneakers worked well in the High Sierra, they can probably work in the Appalachians.
The only time I wear boots is for skiing or trail work. If there is too little snow for skis, then I am wearing trail runners. :)
I like slightly oversized trail runners in winter, for thicker socks, and replacing the insole with a thick felt insole. I still have trouble keeping snow out. I have gators but they are really heavy and snow still gets in. I think I will sew something on directly, like a nylon hiking pant material.
In trail runners, as long as you're hiking your feet will get wet, but they'll be wet and warm because of your exertion. When you stop, take off your shoes and socks and put on dry socks. The only time my feet got so cold that I had to stop and warm them because I couldn't feel them was after crossing a creek in the morning in the Sierra. Since the creek was above my knees boots wouldn't have helped at all.
Haiku.
That's it. Trail runners that absorb too much water suck in snow.
Next time I go shopping for trail runners I'm bringing a bucket of water and a stopwatch.
This article (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/water_weight_gain_and_loss_lightweight_shoes.html) (How fast do popular lightweight hiking shoes dry after a thorough soaking?) was posted on Backpacking Light back in 2006. Very informative!
Bigglesworth
11-28-2008, 11:34
I started in Goretex boots this past year, had lots of rain, and found that if it was wet enough, even with the Goretex my feet got wet. When I switched to non-Goretex trail runners, they got wet faster, but they dried MUCH faster without the Goretex. I also used Smartwool socks, and carried a few pairs, so I always had a dry pair to put on the next day. This system worked for me: good socks (extra pairs), trail runners, no Goretex.
Bare Bear
12-02-2008, 00:01
I used to hike in high quality leather boots (free from work) but once I tried some lighter weight styles I will never go back to the boots.
Here is that thread. I was saying I don't think all trail runners are equal in wet snow.
Some behave like those annoying wool gloves with suede palms that just make the wool wet and cold and keep from drying. Trail runners for winter shouldn't be waterproof but they shouldn't absorb any water either. I read that article, but I don't think it tells the full story on trail runners in snow. I think there are some trail runners out there that don't absorb any. I don't mind felt liners, because you can take them out and they are warm when wet. Some trail runners are cold when wet, and make your wool socks colder and wetter. You don't want that. Mine that suck are Northface, with some suedey bits on the uppers, but I think the padding in the uppers and the tongue is equally offensive. They are ok in summer when you want to keep your feet cool, and they dry ok in summer also, but in wet snow conditions they suck. Not all trail runners are equal in snow. I think you have to do your own research to find a pair that work, and trade names and models don't help cause they keep changing. It might be harder to get a good fit, but I think you need something with a mesh that isn't padded and doesn't absorb water. In winter you can wear thicker socks for the padding.
The Solemates
12-02-2008, 12:50
i used trail runners that were not waterproof and had holes in them this past week in PA while walking in anywhere from 1-10 inches of snow for 4 days. my feet were constantly wet and sometimes cold, but I learned to deal with it. its really not that bad if you are continually walking anyways. we had a fire every night, so i just warmed up my feet my it each night, then slept with wet socks. the socks were completely dry by the next morning when i had to put them back into frozen shoes :) It beat the alternative I had of either going to purchase a new pair or lugging my "mountaineering" boots that weigh over 5 lbs.
I don't mind hiking in damp wool socks, but there is a difference between trail runners that hold a little bit of water but don't keep your wool socks any wetter and trail runners that hold more water, and act like, well like suede palms on wool gloves, keeping your wool socks colder and wetter. I'm saying not all trail runners are equal in snow. I want them to be breathable, not waterproof, but non-absorbing, not like suede. There has to be a way of identifying trail runners that are good for snow, and trail runners that are not.
LongIslandBob
12-20-2008, 18:56
I thru'ed in '05 starting near the end of March...started off with Scarpa goretex, waterproofed mid-height boots and SmartWool Trekker socks (heavyweight, with much-appreciated extra thickness) carrying a 35-40 lb pack. It helped having the heavier boot in the beginning and even in rain/snow, my feet stayed dry, comfy and warm. I changed to a New Balance trailrunner in Damascus and had lots of problems with fit, leading to blisters and problems and had to change to Montrails in Pearisburg (drove to Blacksburg). Use a slightly oversized trailrunner, as your feet will take more of a beating in them and swell some, and you don't need tight fit problems. Trailrunners are great in VA, WV, MD and into PA. Helps having a tougher shoe in PA with all the rocks. NJ is good for a trailrunner, but in hindsight, I wish I had used boot in NY, MA, VT, NH & ME. The terrain is tougher and the extra support/padding would have helped foot comfort. Net/net... people do the entire trail in ALL kinds of shoes so you have to figure out what your budget, hiking style, personal comfort and circumstances will allow you and go for it. Have fun!
1.
Has anyone done any tests on trail runners to see how much water they absorb if you dunk them and drain them upside down for a minute, and then run around a track with them for 5 minutes, or something like that. I know the models change to fast anyways for such a test to be much good, but I am wondering how much trail runners vary in terms of there weight when wet and how fast they dry. Probably doesn't vary much.
2. Has anyone sewn a gator to trail runners to make a sort of mukluk for winter?
1. BackpackingLight archives has an extensive analysis of the water absorption of various models of trail shoe. There was a lot of variation. However, in all cases, trail runners absorb less than leather boots. Look for TRs with little if any padding. It is the padding that absorbs and holds water. Cheap trail shoes generally have the most padding.
2. Not necessary. If you use stretch gaiters held down with a Velcro patch glued to the shoe heels, you can posthole without a problem.
This article (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/water_weight_gain_and_loss_lightweight_shoes.html) (How fast do popular lightweight hiking shoes dry after a thorough soaking?) was posted on Backpacking Light back in 2006. Very informative!
aw. come on. which shoe dries fastest? ...don't have access to that article.
aw. come on. which shoe dries fastest? ...don't have access to that article.
The ones they threw in the clothes dryer ;) :p :D.
I use Sealskinz in snow and cold rain and they keep my feet just warm enough. No wet wool socks. You can keep your socks from freezing by putting them in a plastic bag and taking them to bed with you. They won't dry out but they won't freeze your feet or wet out your bag either.
It's march in Georgia, not March in Alaska. Non-waterproof trail runners with some wool socks will be plenty.
aw. come on. which shoe dries fastest? ...don't have access to that article.I think that article is flawed for wet snow conditions because it focused on drying time in warmer conditions. For wet snow conditions you simply want the pair that holds the least amount of water when soaked. Minimize wet weight minus dry weight. Then some sort of vbl or gortex or neoprene sock to wear over your wool socks in wet snow conditions. Otherwise your wool socks will also be saturated, almost instantly.
They should really publish wet weight of fleece and socks and footwear, not just dry weight.
Trail runners are lite and comfortable. Carry NEOS overshoes for real wet hiking. They are liteweight and can add up to 40 degrees worth of insulation. Check out their website www.overshoe.com.I (http://www.overshoe.com.I) think Santa is bringing me some.
Trail runners are lite and comfortable. Carry NEOS overshoes for real wet hiking. They are liteweight and can add up to 40 degrees worth of insulation. Check out their website www.overshoe.com.I (http://www.overshoe.com.I) think Santa is bringing me some.
I've been looking for opinions on the NEOS insulated overshoes. Where have you BEEN?
I'd like them to wear over trail runners in the dead of winter in the White Mountains (temps. from 30f to -30f).
Think they'd be a viable option for snowshoeing?
When it gets cowld and wet I go to a WP shoe and make every attempt to keep my feet dry.
Of all the Goretex socks I've owned none stayed WP very long. Maybe, if I had seamsealed the stitching or were able to find one piece GoreTex socks(if they exist?) or the seams were welded or glued it would have been different. Sometimes the combo of Mysterios socks(the kind used by paddlers) or wool socks underneath sealskins or neoprene socks have kept my feet warm and realtively dry. Just watch out your dogs don't turn into prunes with that set up!