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Tennessee Viking
11-03-2008, 22:06
If anyone will be hiking around Unaka & Beauty Spot for the rest of the fall and winter season, the spring just north of Beauty Spot will be closed for the season by the TEHCC & Old Timers Club due to possible contamination. The water signs and blue blazes at the road crossing have been taken down. Next best water sources are located at Deep Gap & Cherry Gap Shelter northbound. A few on trail springs & Curley Maple Shelter located south of Indian Grave Gap.

The source will possibly reopen next year.

Cabin Fever
11-03-2008, 22:13
...will be closed for the season due to possible contamination by the TEHCC & Old Timers Club.

Correction: ...will be closed by the TEHCC and Old Timers Club due to possible contamination.

Flush2wice
11-03-2008, 22:34
Can you elaborate?

Tennessee Viking
11-03-2008, 23:17
The water at the location has become contaminated with sulfur compounds.

Cabin Sue me I am from the mountains lol... plus I just got off a little day trip in the Rocky Fork backcountry.

dmax
11-03-2008, 23:37
Thanks for the heads up on this. I walked through there on Sunday. Water was tasting good at deep gap. I saw a small snake on the trail between Unaka mt. and Beatyspot. Not sure what kind it was. It was out enjoying the weather like I was.

Flush2wice
11-04-2008, 00:04
C
The water at the location has become contaminated with sulfur compounds.

Cabin Sue me I am from the mountains lol... plus I just got off a little day trip in the Rocky Fork backcountry.
Can you elaborate?

Montana Mac
11-04-2008, 08:33
If anyone will be hiking around Unaka & Beauty Spot for the rest of the fall and winter season, the spring just north of Beauty Spot will be closed for the season by the TEHCC & Old Timers Club due to possible contamination.
The source will possibly reopen next year.

Is this the spring indicated at NOBO mm 350.6 in Appalachian Pages where it is also indicated as a campsite?



Correction: ...will be closed by the TEHCC and Old Timers Club due to possible contamination.

Is this a permanent closure?

Kerosene
11-04-2008, 08:43
There are two springs in that vicinity. The one closest to Beauty Spot was closed (I met two trail maintainers, who were likely from the Old Timers Club, walking up to inspect the spring on Friday morning). However, the boxed spring north of that should still be open and was flowing well from a pipe. Basically, you cross the gravel road to a campsite, and then make a right down a mown trail for perhaps 50 yards to the spring.

Kerosene
11-04-2008, 08:46
Note that the water at Cherry Gap Shelter was barely a trickle (a liter every 10 minutes). There was a small leaf-ridden collection pool that you could pump from, but it was pretty cloudy and shallow. I positioned a few rocks to hold my cup and catch the flow from the pipe so I didn't need to keep bending over.

The area below the spring is basically mud and I couldn't find a better pool to dip from.

Tennessee Viking
11-04-2008, 12:32
Is this a permanent closure?

At the moment, the spring will be checked next year, after some winter snow dilute the contaminates and push it down stream.

Marta
11-04-2008, 12:41
Any ideas about the cause of the problem?

dmax
11-04-2008, 22:37
I hope its some kinda clue to find the lost silver mine up there.

Tennessee Viking
11-05-2008, 01:23
Any ideas about the cause of the problem?Most likely due to the dry seasons last couple years.

mudhead
11-09-2008, 12:47
Any ideas about the cause of the problem?

I am curious, too. All I can come up with on the net is organic compounds decaying and petroleum products.

I did learn that tar sands yield sulphur as a byproduct.

Any science types out there?

dmax
02-19-2009, 22:45
Would a water filter make the water safe to drink?

I was up there two weeks ago and I noticed tracks in the snow going to this spring. I went to the spring a couple of weeks before then to check it out. I did notice the blue blazes were covered up that were on the trees. There was still one blue blaze. The one on the rock in the middle of the water source was still there. Since I still use old guides, I'm think'n I better update incase other sources were closed in previus years that I wasen't aware of yet.

It would be nice if a little sign was posted at a bad water sources on the trail. If I hadn't read about this on here, I would have thought the blue blazes were painted over by teenagers as a joke on a hiker.

Would the use of a purifier make this water safe to drink?

generoll
02-19-2009, 23:19
I'm planning on doing that section in a couple of weeks. Could you give me any tips on water from Indian Grave Gap north?

dmax
02-19-2009, 23:45
What has been good and tasty at Deep Gap this winter. Its a nice piped spring.
How big of a section are you doing? In the morning I plan on going from Indian Grave Gap to Iron Mt, so I usually only fill up there. There are two more water sources that are pretty good between Deep Gap and Iron Mt. If you need more info., I'm planning Carvers Gap to Erwin either next weekend or the one after. I could give an up date on that section then, if you still need it.

Tennessee Viking
02-20-2009, 01:11
I'm planning on doing that section in a couple of weeks. Could you give me any tips on water from Indian Grave Gap north?
From Indian Grave Gap north to Carvers, the main sources will be:
Deep Gap
Cherry Gap Shelter
apple orchard in between Iron Mtn Gap & Weedy Gap
Greasy Creek Gap
Clyde Smith Shelter
Ash Gap campsite
Cloudland parking area (when the Garden Road is open, the utilities will be operating)
Roan High Knob shelter
Carvers Gap

Seconary sources:
old trail north of the Unaka summit (if you can identify the old trail, the piped spring is still there)
Low Gap
wet wall spring on the northside of Little Bald Knob
campsite north of Greasy Creek Gap
Hughes Gap (down road on Tennessee side above the road)

generoll
02-20-2009, 08:34
thanks. I'll have to note those on my copy of the companion when it print it up.

The Weasel
02-20-2009, 11:01
Purifiers will not remove minerals such as sulfur.

TW

generoll
02-20-2009, 19:03
other then taste, what's the harm in a bit of sulphur? seems to me that sulphur is an additive in dried fruits.

Pedaling Fool
04-15-2010, 09:24
other then taste, what's the harm in a bit of sulphur? seems to me that sulphur is an additive in dried fruits.
Some how I missed this thread, I noticed it just today on TP. Here's what USGS says about sulfur: http://water.usgs.gov/owq/FAQ.htm

27.Q: If the sulfur content in my well water is a little high, is it still safe to drink?




A: Sulfur is not regulated as a primary drinking-water contaminant, so there is no official level of sulfur that represents a threshold between healthy and unhealthy concentrations. Sulfur is required by all living things as part of their normal metabolism, so the body needs a certain amount of sulfur just to live. Any adverse effects of sulfur in drinking water appear to be related to the following issues:
Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is sometimes present in well water. A few tenths of a milligram of hydrogen sulfide per liter can cause drinking water to have a rotten-egg odor. While unpleasant, it is not harmful to health. (See Question 20 (http://water.usgs.gov/owq/FAQ.htm#Q20) on this web page, which discusses odor and smell.)
High concentrations of sulfate (SO4--) may be associated with diarrhea. For this reason, and for aesthetic reasons related to taste and odor, the Environmental Protection Agency currently has a secondary drinking-water standard of 250 milligrams per liter (mg/L) sulfate. Further information on sulfate and drinking water can be found at this web site:
http://www.epa.gov/safewater/sulfate.html (http://www.epa.gov/safewater/sulfate.html)
Some waters with elevated sulfate also tend to have low pH (as in acid mine drainage). The pH of water is usually checked when well water is tested. A pH between 6.5 and 8.5 is in the range recommended by EPA.
Bottom line: If you are not bothered by a rotten-egg odor, and you don't have a sulfate concentration over 250 mg/L, you should have nothing to worry about from the sulfur.

So it seems to me the problem is not sulfur, rather a chemical compound of sulfur - sulfate.

I find this curious, neither the ATC nor the various clubs test water sources along the AT, but they apparently tested this source -- Why?
Or are there certain sources they (or some other organization) do test periodically?

Anyone know the current status?





.

BobTheBuilder
04-15-2010, 09:41
In October 2008, I got water there during my section hike. I noticed the chemical taste, but I assumjed the source had to be good, and I do filter my water. Over the next couple of days, I tasted that chemical taste over and over, as I kept throwing up. Enjoying the view from Hump Mountain while bending over and puking is a lovely memory. Somehow, I feel validated now.

Tennessee Viking
04-15-2010, 09:46
Some how I missed this thread, I noticed it just today on TP. Here's what USGS says about sulfur: http://water.usgs.gov/owq/FAQ.htm

27.Q: If the sulfur content in my well water is a little high, is it still safe to drink?





A: Sulfur is not regulated as a primary drinking-water contaminant, so there is no official level of sulfur that represents a threshold between healthy and unhealthy concentrations. Sulfur is required by all living things as part of their normal metabolism, so the body needs a certain amount of sulfur just to live. Any adverse effects of sulfur in drinking water appear to be related to the following issues:
Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is sometimes present in well water. A few tenths of a milligram of hydrogen sulfide per liter can cause drinking water to have a rotten-egg odor. While unpleasant, it is not harmful to health. (See Question 20 (http://water.usgs.gov/owq/FAQ.htm#Q20) on this web page, which discusses odor and smell.)
High concentrations of sulfate (SO4--) may be associated with diarrhea. For this reason, and for aesthetic reasons related to taste and odor, the Environmental Protection Agency currently has a secondary drinking-water standard of 250 milligrams per liter (mg/L) sulfate. Further information on sulfate and drinking water can be found at this web site:
http://www.epa.gov/safewater/sulfate.html (http://www.epa.gov/safewater/sulfate.html)
Some waters with elevated sulfate also tend to have low pH (as in acid mine drainage). The pH of water is usually checked when well water is tested. A pH between 6.5 and 8.5 is in the range recommended by EPA.
Bottom line: If you are not bothered by a rotten-egg odor, and you don't have a sulfate concentration over 250 mg/L, you should have nothing to worry about from the sulfur.

So it seems to me the problem is not sulfur, rather a chemical compound of sulfur - sulfate.

I find this curious, neither the ATC nor the various clubs test water sources along the AT, but they apparently tested this source -- Why?
Or are there certain sources they (or some other organization) do test periodically?

Anyone know the current status?





.Actually, the ATC does do some water testing. Usually around in the later part of the year, there is a water testing month (no joke). A number of sources are checked along the AT. The tests look for oxygen, turbidity, and pH.

Its been a while since I got the incident report from the hiker. After a couple good winters. The spring should be rejuvenated and open.

flemdawg1
04-15-2010, 11:46
Thanks for the heads up TV. I'm hiking that section next month.

dmax
04-15-2010, 13:18
Some of the guide books have it still listed as a water source. And a couple of others have taken it out.

TIDE-HSV
04-15-2010, 21:28
Some how I missed this thread, I noticed it just today on TP. Here's what USGS says about sulfur: http://water.usgs.gov/owq/FAQ.htm

27.Q: If the sulfur content in my well water is a little high, is it still safe to drink?




A: Sulfur is not regulated as a primary drinking-water contaminant, so there is no official level of sulfur that represents a threshold between healthy and unhealthy concentrations. Sulfur is required by all living things as part of their normal metabolism, so the body needs a certain amount of sulfur just to live. Any adverse effects of sulfur in drinking water appear to be related to the following issues:

Hydrogen sulfide (H2S) is sometimes present in well water. A few tenths of a milligram of hydrogen sulfide per liter can cause drinking water to have a rotten-egg odor. While unpleasant, it is not harmful to health. (See Question 20 (http://water.usgs.gov/owq/FAQ.htm#Q20) on this web page, which discusses odor and smell.)
High concentrations of sulfate (SO4--) may be associated with diarrhea. For this reason, and for aesthetic reasons related to taste and odor, the Environmental Protection Agency currently has a secondary drinking-water standard of 250 milligrams per liter (mg/L) sulfate. Further information on sulfate and drinking water can be found at this web site:
http://www.epa.gov/safewater/sulfate.html (http://www.epa.gov/safewater/sulfate.html)
Some waters with elevated sulfate also tend to have low pH (as in acid mine drainage). The pH of water is usually checked when well water is tested. A pH between 6.5 and 8.5 is in the range recommended by EPA.

Bottom line: If you are not bothered by a rotten-egg odor, and you don't have a sulfate concentration over 250 mg/L, you should have nothing to worry about from the sulfur.

So it seems to me the problem is not sulfur, rather a chemical compound of sulfur - sulfate.

I find this curious, neither the ATC nor the various clubs test water sources along the AT, but they apparently tested this source -- Why?
Or are there certain sources they (or some other organization) do test periodically?

Anyone know the current status?





.

If you mix sulfur with water, you're going to have sulfates, since the oxygen in the water (H20) combines with the sulfur. In fact, depending on the exact chemistry of the water, you're going to have a range of sulfates, including dilute sulfuric acid (H2SO4)...

Pedaling Fool
04-16-2010, 08:29
If you mix sulfur with water, you're going to have sulfates, since the oxygen in the water (H20) combines with the sulfur. In fact, depending on the exact chemistry of the water, you're going to have a range of sulfates, including dilute sulfuric acid (H2SO4)...
I'm no chemist, I didn't say it the USGS said it. Obviously there is sulfur in water according to my link (again not my words): "Sulfur is not regulated as a primary drinking-water contaminant, so there is no official level of sulfur that represents a threshold between healthy and unhealthy concentrations. Sulfur is required by all living things as part of their normal metabolism, so the body needs a certain amount of sulfur just to live. Any adverse effects of sulfur in drinking water appear to be related to the following issues".

I would imagine you need to something spark a chemical reaction. Do you just throw hydrogen and oxygen in a room and get water? I don't think so.

Here's another site about sufates: http://www.water-research.net/sulfate.htm#sources

An Excerpt:
Sulfates and Hydrogen Sulfide


"Sulfates are a combination of sulfur and oxygen and are a part of naturally occurring minerals in some soil and rock formations that contain groundwater. The mineral dissolves over time and is released into groundwater.

Sulfur-reducing bacteria, which use sulfur as an energy source, are the primary producers of large quantities of hydrogen sulfide. These bacteria chemically change natural sulfates in water to hydrogen sulfide. Sulfur-reducing bacteria live in oxygen-deficient environments such as deep wells, plumbing systems, water softeners and water heaters. These bacteria usually flourish on the hot water side of a water distribution system.

Hydrogen sulfide gas also occurs naturally in some groundwater. It is formed from decomposing underground deposits of organic matter such as decaying plant material. It is found in deep or shallow wells and also can enter surface water through springs, although it quickly escapes to the atmosphere. Hydrogen sulfide often is present in wells drilled in shale or sandstone, or near coal or peat deposits or oil fields. Occasionally, a hot water heater is a source of hydrogen sulfide odor. The magnesium corrosion control rod present in many hot water heaters can chemically reduce naturally occurring sulfates to hydrogen sulfide."



To me, as a non-chemist, this makes sense and I can see how the problem would go away with increased water levels.


P.S. Thanks Tennessee Viking, I never would have guessed the ATC periodically tests various water sources. I'm kind of curious about this and think I call them for more information.













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TIDE-HSV
04-16-2010, 15:14
Well, what you're saying would be true, if the water were distilled, kept in the dark, and sealed. In the natural world, there are many catalysts for chemical reactions - impurities in the water, even sunlight itself. While sulfur is not as reactive as many other elements, there will be many opportunities for new molecules to be generated. BTW, if you threw hydrogen and oxygen into a closed environment, you would indeed get water, after a hell of a bang. When the Hindenburg came down, she was making water all the way to the ground...