View Full Version : Alcohol and water
HogWinslow
11-05-2008, 16:41
While I was bouncing around the internet looking at ways to build Pepsi Can stoves I thought I read that if you mix water at a 10% rate it won't make the pans as black. Now I can't find that reference. Was I imagining it or is that true? I made a stove and I'm using the yellow bottle Heat and it works great.
Hog
Its the red bottle Heet that messes up your pots.
JaxHiker
11-05-2008, 16:54
Hmm, the only black I have on my pot is from when the paper I stupidly put under the stove to protect the table I was using caught fire. :D Aside from that I haven't had any problems with soot. You shouldn't play with your stoves inside. :rolleyes:
Old Goat
11-05-2008, 17:19
I didn't have any soot from denatured alcohol or Heet in the yellow bottle. I've read you will get soot from Heet in the red bottle and from rubbing alcohol.
the difference here would be isopropyl alcohol vs methyl alcohol. iso (red bottle heet/rubbing alcohol) turns your pots black.
there are a couple of tricks to this. if you use iso, put a little soap on the bottom of your pan first, makes cleanup easier. not sure about diluting. think i read that somewhere but can't remember what site. if i find a link i'll post it.
personnaly i carry iso so that i have a disinfectant as well as a fuel source...
Rubbing alcohol if you put some water with it it not soot the pot.I think on a 1/2 oz. 2 or 3 drops going brain dead getting old not much room to store things up there anymore.
Isn't the problem with rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) is that it contains too much water (30%?)?
I have zero soot issues with denatured alcohol.
JaxHiker
11-05-2008, 21:26
I have zero soot issues with denatured alcohol.
That's what I'm using.
Dances with Mice
11-05-2008, 21:32
Isn't the problem with rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) is that it contains too much water (30%?)? I have zero soot issues with denatured alcohol.The water in 70% rubbing alcohol is a problem, yeah. Water is a notoriously poor fuel. But the soot and smoke given off by iso is caused by incomplete combusion. Iso requires 3X as much oxygen for complete combustion compared to methanol (HEET yellow).
You can't fool Mother Nature and she keeps careful score. Her scorecard for complete burn of meth, eth, and iso looks like:
2 CH3OH + 3 O2 --> 2 CO2 + 4 H2O + energy (for methanol)
2 C2H5OH + 6 O2 --> 4 CO2 + 6 H20 + energy (ethanol)
2 C3H7OH + 9 O2 --> 6 CO2 + 8 H20 + energy (isoprop)
If all the fuel doesn't combust because it's starved for oxygen then you don't just get CO2 + H20, you also get plain old C. That's Carbon. Black stuff. Smoke. Soot.
Dang, DWM breakin out the chemistry formulas upon us!!
Skidsteer
11-05-2008, 22:04
Safer than flaming chainsaws.
Dances with Mice
11-05-2008, 22:12
"Water is a notoriously poor fuel." and no comments?! Come on, chemistry jokes don't get better than that.
Which is, I guess, part of the problem...
Skidsteer
11-05-2008, 22:18
"Water is a notoriously poor fuel." and no comments?! Come on, chemistry jokes don't get better than that.
Which is, I guess, part of the problem...
You haven't perfected the hydrogen generator yet?
HogWinslow
11-05-2008, 23:08
Ok. Thanks everyone. When I tested the stove to heat water I used rubbing alcohol and it sooted the pan. I've since bought Heat in the yellow bottle and used it in the stove but not with a pot. So I'm understanding that yellow Heat will not blacken the pot. Thanks again. I can't wait to hit the trail and try it for real!
flemdawg1
11-07-2008, 12:37
Never had yellow HEET blacken a pot. Just use as-is.
Ok. Thanks everyone. When I tested the stove to heat water I used rubbing alcohol and it sooted the pan. I've since bought Heat in the yellow bottle and used it in the stove but not with a pot. So I'm understanding that yellow Heat will not blacken the pot. Thanks again. I can't wait to hit the trail and try it for real!
Why do need to be on trail to try it out to see if it works??
sheepdog
11-07-2008, 14:31
Why do need to be on trail to try it out to see if it works??
Yeah, fire that puppy up now!!!!!
JaxHiker
11-07-2008, 14:50
It seems like lately I've been firing up one stove or another off the back rec room every night. :)
mechanic.mike
11-07-2008, 16:39
I've read you will get soot from Heet in the red bottle and from rubbing alcohol.
HEET in the red bottle is isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol). :)
HEET in the red bottle is isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol). :)
It's not rubbing alcohol, don't listen to most of what this guy says. Don't use it as rubbing alcohol. It's not the same stuff.
Dances with Mice
11-08-2008, 14:20
It's not rubbing alcohol, don't listen to most of what this guy says. Don't use it as rubbing alcohol. It's not the same stuff.Really? Maybe I'm missing something. Red bottled HEET isn't marketed, labeled or approved for medical use, that is true.
Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl. Red bottled heet is also isopropyl. From the standpoint of use as a camping fuel, the topic of this thread, they're the same. And they both suck.
I always add a little water when I carry 100 proof bourbon. It's never seemed to keep soot from my pot, however. :-?
Really? Maybe I'm missing something. Red bottled HEET isn't marketed, labeled or approved for medical use, that is true.
Rubbing alcohol is isopropyl. Red bottled heet is also isopropyl. From the standpoint of use as a camping fuel, the topic of this thread, they're the same. And they both suck.
Glacial Acetic Acid is vinegar we don't recommend it be used on salads.
Iso-HEET is isopropol, we don't recommend using it as Rubbing Alcohol
Both are cut with water to create a usable Mixture.
Full strength they are a health hazard of the first degree.
Iso-HEET is full strength, let's not give the impression that it can be used as Rubbing Alcohol in case someone purchased the Red Bottle and has some left over and thinks he/she can use it as Rubbing Alcohol.
You're here every day, keep watch, teach them correct chemical principals that apply here.
Dances with Mice
11-09-2008, 22:05
Glacial Acetic Acid is vinegar we don't recommend it be used on salads.
Iso-HEET is isopropol, we don't recommend using it as Rubbing Alcohol
Both are cut with water to create a usable Mixture.
Full strength they are a health hazard of the first degree.
Iso-HEET is full strength, let's not give the impression that it can be used as Rubbing Alcohol in case someone purchased the Red Bottle and has some left over and thinks he/she can use it as Rubbing Alcohol.
You're here every day, keep watch, teach them correct chemical principals that apply here.I saw nothing frightening about what he wrote. Vinegar has about 15 - 20% acetic acid, way different than glacial, fuming concentrated acid. Meanwhile at the drugstore I can buy 90% rubbing alcohol. It's probably not since isopropanol and water forms an azeotrope with 12.6% water so I suspect the manufacturer rounded off the labeled concentration to the nearest 10%. In so many words it's hard to get isopropanol with absolutely no water and I suspect HEET right out of the bottle contains about 10% water, the same as some medicinal rubbing alcohol.
The major difference between HEET and 90% rubbing alcohol is that HEET isn't labeled or approved for medicinal use.
But then neither HEET nor rubbing alcohol is labeled or approved by the manufacturer for use as a camping fuel.
I've used 99% isopropyl alcohol and its main problem is that its really really slow.
If you try to speed it up then I think you get into soot, but I haven't got that far.
I think rubbing alcohol can mean different things. I saw it once here as ethanol plus camphor. Curious what that might burn like but haven't seen it since. Usually it is isopropanol I think, plus some other stuff maybe, which might make it even worse as fuel.
In a perfect world I could just buy 100% ethanol untaxed, and not drink it too often.
Perfect for fuel, first aid, hygene and sanitizing, and perhaps the occassional martini.
Seems crazy that we have to either tax or poison the stuff, or both.
I have started using cheap Gin as aftershave and mouthwash. I mix it with flouride rinse for mouthwash. Its not that expensive in New Hampshire and comes in a nice bottle. At 47% alcohol it not a great fuel though. I haven't started drinking it yet. I want to make it last. lol. Perhaps its only a matter of time. Sobriety is wasted on a guy like me.
They sell 50%, 70%, and 99% isopropyl alcohol here as rubbing alcohol.
I presume the remainder is water.
The red heet might be 99% isopropyl alcohol but it might also contain some other stuff, less refined and guaranteed.
The other difference might have to do with isopropyl-1 and isopropyl-2.
Frankly, I don't even like using rubbing alcohol as rubbing alcohol.
Safer to use Gin or Vodka.
While I was bouncing around the internet looking at ways to build Pepsi Can stoves I thought I read that if you mix water at a 10% rate it won't make the pans as black. Now I can't find that reference. Was I imagining it or is that true? I made a stove and I'm using the yellow bottle Heat and it works great.
Hog
Stick with the Yellow HEET and all will be fine.
If anyone asks abbout the Red Iso-HEET tell them that the Material Safety Data Sheet says it's 99 percent Isopropanol.;) Who really gives a rats nose I have no idea :D
Have fun making stoves!!!!!!!!:banana
GeneralLee10
11-10-2008, 13:44
I have used Heet in the yellow bottle and Denatured Alcohol both have not left any black residue on any of my water boiling containers.:)
But the best boy scout trick is soap the bottom of your pan and no soot will stick
Wise Old Owl
11-13-2008, 22:51
Isn't the problem with rubbing alcohol (isopropyl) is that it contains too much water (30%?)?
I have zero soot issues with denatured alcohol.
You would be correct. Grasp the pebble. (Kung Fu)