View Full Version : Bear Canister
I'm looking for recommendations for a bear canister for a PCT thru hike.
Brand?
Size I would need?
I know there are several out there but I don't know anything about them.
thanks,
MTS
karoberts
11-12-2008, 20:48
Bearikade is the lightest I have found.
http://www.wild-ideas.net/index2.html
Bearikade is the lightest but also runs around $275. I used the BearVault for my JMT trip. I found it online for $30.
Bearikade is the lightest but also runs around $275. I used the BearVault for my JMT trip. I found it online for $30.
Yeah the Bearvault is definitly much cheaper.
Did you use the BV 450 or 500?
superman
11-12-2008, 21:32
I have the bearikade. I bought it because it's made out of bullet proof kevlar. If the bad guys attack I can just hold my bear can in front of me. It also serves as a great camp stool. No bear succeeded in getting into it but I'm not sure if it was a bear or a racoon that attacked it.:)
Yeah the Bearvault is definitly much cheaper.
Did you use the BV 450 or 500?
500 - I was able to squeeze 9 days of food and most of my smellables into it.
TwoForty
11-12-2008, 21:55
You can rent a bearikade, but even that is pricey. They are pretty light and very large. I like my BV 400. It's clear and has the right balance of cost, weight, and size. I think I got 7 days of food into it at best and I was carrying 10.
garlic08
11-13-2008, 00:58
The BV200 worked great for me in '04, and I'm sure the 400 is fine if not better. It did withstand a definite bear attack, got lots of claw and tooth marks, and still works fine. Good company and customer service, too.
taildragger
11-19-2008, 11:34
Bearvault
They have a PCT purchase program and will ship the box to you at places like Kennedy Meadows General Store.
Never had a bear mess with my stuff, but after a week in the Yosemite high country, and hearing every day from different people at camps that bears ripped apart their bags, I decided not to go the risk of no can with so many idjuts training the bears.
Footslogger
11-19-2008, 11:43
Haven't done the PCT yet but the Bearvault 450 is the cannister I bought for that hike. My suggestion is to go on eBay and search on Bearvault. You'll probably save a few bucks.
'Slogger
taildragger
11-19-2008, 11:55
BTW, as of last year, the Ursack (even with the liner) was no longer legal to carry en lieu of a bear can
wandering_bob
11-22-2008, 13:18
Even empty, bear canisters take up a huge amount of space in your pack, so be sure your pack can handle your chosen model before you buy it. If possible, take your empty pack to your local gear shop and test-fit as many models as possible.
Buy or Rent? How many times will you need one? If only once or twice, you're better off renting one. If more than twice, buy one. Too big is better than too small. Trash gets bulkier than you ever think it will.
Bearikade makes the lightest weight but most expensive canisters. I've carried my Expedition model on many Sierra hikes because:
1. Bear canisters are required for food protection
2. It makes a great FLAT camp seat, table, and stove stand
3. I need the 9 day's capacity
4. I don't like the irregular shape and tiny opening of the much smaller Garcia can.
5. My 8 inch diameter tortillas fit perfectly and lie flat on the very bottom.
Bearvault
They have a PCT purchase program and will ship the box to you at places like Kennedy Meadows General Store.
That's what I did this past year. $65 delivered
http://www.bearvault.com/bearvault_pct.php
Great canister, if there is such a thing, fairly light, large enough and clear, so you can see your stuff.
That's what I did this past year. $65 delivered
http://www.bearvault.com/bearvault_pct.php
Great canister, if there is such a thing, fairly light, large enough and clear, so you can see your stuff.
So it's the BV 500 that's $65, b/c thats a deal.
So it's the BV 500 that's $65, b/c thats a deal.
Yeah, it was a good deal. The folks ate Kennedy Meadows were great about handling them all
By the way they have Bear Vault BV500s for sale at Moontrail.com for $66.
SlowLightTrek
02-07-2009, 23:22
BTW, as of last year, the Ursack (even with the liner) was no longer legal to carry en lieu of a bear can
Yea, because of some behemoth grizzly bear in Canada ripped one open. Why then are there no bear canisters required in Yellowstone National Park where there are lots of grizzlys?
Why then are there no bear canisters required in Yellowstone National Park where there are lots of grizzlys?
In Yellowstone and Glacier you need to get a backcountry permit and stay at designated campsites with bear poles.
ChinMusic
02-08-2009, 00:16
I don't know about Yellowstone, but the griz in Glacier are tracked 24/7 via collars.
Desert Reprobate
02-08-2009, 00:27
Yeah, it was a good deal. The folks ate Kennedy Meadows were great about handling them all
The folks at Kennedy Meadows are great people. I've been going there since I found the place hiking PCT in the mid 80s. Movie weekends are a lot of fun.
I vote for the BV500. I can easily fit mine in my 3200 cubic inch bag with all the rest of my gear and it'll hold more than enough for the longest stretches you'll find anywhere in the lower 48. The big, open top is much easier to deal with than those crappy "Garcia" canister openings and 4x cheaper and only a few ounces heavier than the carbon fiber Bearikades.
Helmuth.Fishmonger
02-27-2009, 18:01
I own both, the Bearikade Expedition and the Bearvault 500. There's no comparison betwen the two. I HATE the Bearvault - never get the thing open without hurting myself, it's heavy, it doesn't hold much food.
The Bearikade is a piece of high performance gear that simply works. Easy to open with a coin, super light, packs better because it's slightly smaller in diameter, and it is taller, making it a better camp stool. The Bearikade also seals better with o-rings around each of the lock tabs and the entire top lid.
Personally, I dislike having to carry bear canisters, but since they are required, I have become used to them. They do provide an unequaled sense of security about your food at night, especially at elevations where in the past you could only hope for the best, due to lack of a decent tree to hang anything on. I never lost food in a decade of hiking the Sierra with the counter balance method, but perhaps I was lucky. Back in those days, bears came to popular camp sites each night, guaranteed, and they usually got somebody's food. Nowadays that is not as much the case anymore, at least along the Muir Trail where I usually hike.
Rickosovitch
04-13-2009, 17:10
I used the Garcia Backpacker's Cache last year while hiking Yosemite for the first time. It held six days' food, but then I learned that you really should put anything with an attractive smell (toothpaste, deodorant, TUMS, etc.) in there too. Anyway, no bears came around, or maybe they came at night, saw our cannisters and moved on. The rangers say they do this. But I wouldn't want to carry one anywhere they're not required. This one added 2lbs 7oz to my pack weight. I'd want to use the Ursack anywhere else. It's only about a half a pound. And the makers say that the case of the Grizzly ripping one open was actually a case of a hiker not closing the sack properly so that the bear was able to pull it open. If you've seen the video of a bear trying to bite through the Ursack I think you'd agree it's highly unlikely that anything could actually rip it apart. In any event, you'll appreciate carrying two less pounds on the majority of the PCT where cannisters aren't required.
Ursack Pres
04-20-2009, 13:47
I am the president of Ursack. We are trying to resolve approval issues with rangers in Yosemite, SEKI and Inyo, and hope to have an answer by early June. It is possible--no promises--that our new S29 AllWhite will be approved for use there.
In the meantime, there are vast stretches of the PCT, and even some parts of the JMT, that any model of Ursack can be used, with or without an aluminum liner. Check our website for testimonials, but at about 8 ounces (without the liner) Ursack is highly effective. We have many customers who use Ursack until they get to the restricted area and then rent a hard sided canister just for that part of the journey.
tom
Helmuth.Fishmonger
04-20-2009, 18:04
I am the president of Ursack. We are trying to resolve approval issues with rangers in Yosemite, SEKI and Inyo, and hope to have an answer by early June. It is possible--no promises--that our new S29 AllWhite will be approved for use there.
In the meantime, there are vast stretches of the PCT, and even some parts of the JMT, that any model of Ursack can be used, with or without an aluminum liner. Check our website for testimonials, but at about 8 ounces (without the liner) Ursack is highly effective. We have many customers who use Ursack until they get to the restricted area and then rent a hard sided canister just for that part of the journey.
tom
Tom,
thanks for chiming in. Been holding back from buying two more Bearikades, hoping your product will get approved before our Muir Trail yo-yo hike this summer. I have two kids with me and every ounce counts, plus there's the huge cost of two more carbon fiber canisters. One is fine for the northern half of the Muir Trail, but in the south we need room to store food for 8+ days for 3 people.
Since the southern section of the JMT where I need additional food storage, I may be able to use the Ursack even if it doesn't get approved in time for our hike.
The only question regarding that is: is an Ursack currently considered "proper food storage" by rangers in areas outside the approved canister required area? We'd easily be able to make it through the southern half of the JMT south and back to the north with two Ursacks and the Bearikade I already own, as long as we can rely on the Ursack being ok with rangers in areas where canisters are "recommended"
There are a number of bear lockers in Kings Canyon so we can probably wing it from Forester back to Pinchot Pass without violating the rules there, but what's the deal at a place like Evolution Valley, where there are no lockers and "proper food storage is required at all times"? Who makes the call that the Ursack is proper food storage there?
Also, when hiking through an area where bear canisters are required, even if we place food into bear lockers during the night, aren't we technically violating the rules by not having food in approved canisters during the hike? I am quite sure that food is supposed to be in canisters at all times in the required areas, not just at night...
Peter
I'm looking for recommendations for a bear canister for a PCT thru hike.
Brand?
Size I would need?
I know there are several out there but I don't know anything about them.
thanks,
MTSnever used one.ky
Ursack Pres
04-22-2009, 17:15
Tom,
thanks for chiming in. Been holding back from buying two more Bearikades, hoping your product will get approved before our Muir Trail yo-yo hike this summer. I have two kids with me and every ounce counts, plus there's the huge cost of two more carbon fiber canisters. One is fine for the northern half of the Muir Trail, but in the south we need room to store food for 8+ days for 3 people.
Since the southern section of the JMT where I need additional food storage, I may be able to use the Ursack even if it doesn't get approved in time for our hike.
The only question regarding that is: is an Ursack currently considered "proper food storage" by rangers in areas outside the approved canister required area? We'd easily be able to make it through the southern half of the JMT south and back to the north with two Ursacks and the Bearikade I already own, as long as we can rely on the Ursack being ok with rangers in areas where canisters are "recommended"
There are a number of bear lockers in Kings Canyon so we can probably wing it from Forester back to Pinchot Pass without violating the rules there, but what's the deal at a place like Evolution Valley, where there are no lockers and "proper food storage is required at all times"? Who makes the call that the Ursack is proper food storage there?
Also, when hiking through an area where bear canisters are required, even if we place food into bear lockers during the night, aren't we technically violating the rules by not having food in approved canisters during the hike? I am quite sure that food is supposed to be in canisters at all times in the required areas, not just at night...
Peter
Check sierrawildbear.gov for regulations withing specific areas. My understanding is that approved containers are only required in restricted areas. Elsewhere, "proper food storage" means try to keep it away from bears--counterbalancing is allowed. I also believe that you can hike with an Ursack as long as you don't camp overnight in a restricted area or leave it unattended during the day. You should be able to go long stretches of the JMT using bear boxes or camping in unrestricted areas.
tom
Ursack=heaven for Washington and Oregon State. There are only a tiny amount of lands in Wa where canisters are required - and none on the PCT.
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a308/NWHikergirl/PCT%20Section%20G/PCTG10.jpg
A whole bey of them on the PCT in Oregon, near the Sandy River :)
Helmuth.Fishmonger
04-23-2009, 11:37
Check sierrawildbear.gov for regulations withing specific areas. My understanding is that approved containers are only required in restricted areas. Elsewhere, "proper food storage" means try to keep it away from bears--counterbalancing is allowed. I also believe that you can hike with an Ursack as long as you don't camp overnight in a restricted area or leave it unattended during the day. You should be able to go long stretches of the JMT using bear boxes or camping in unrestricted areas.
tom
been in touch with a ranger through another forum. So far what you say seems to be correct. However, each range rdistrict has their own rules, and he's checking with those districts he doens't know about to verify if you can take the Ursack there.
it appears, though, that the bear canister rule only applies to "camping" - during the hike, you can have loose food in your pack if you wish, just keep it on you and don't have a bear take your pack. Apparently cougars do go after food on humans, though, although I bet they consider that garnish on the actual meal carrying the food.
So since there are bear lockers in Kings Canyon NP at Rae Lakes and around Bullfrog Lake towards Forester, that section of trail can be done without a canister, even though it is required "for camping" - just stay at the bear lockers for the nights. Then, between Reds Meadows and Pinchot Pass you can do the Ursack or even counter balance if that is considered proper these days. Only Yosemite Valley to Reds Meadows pretty much requires bear canisters at this point, unless the Ursack gets approved.
Here's the thread on the Whitney Portal forum (where several local Rangers hang out) http://www.whitneyportalstore.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/60732/page/1#Post60732
Love my bearikade and in areas where I can use it I love my ursack...
Helmuth.Fishmonger
04-25-2009, 12:03
well, the Ursack apparently is no more legal than a regular nylon bag in those areas of the John Muir Trail where canisters are not required. Both need to be either in lockers or counter balanced. This from a ranger, stated over at the forum thread linked above:
"Take home message: the ursack is not currently approved for stand-alone food storage anywhere on the JMT. Unfortunately, it's failed at some level with each design. Usually, a bear or other critter can only get a tiny tear into it, but the critter gets a "food reward" which defeats the idea of food storage -- which is to get them back to nuts and berries. I don't know anything about the newest design. It's a great idea and I hope it works someday. But, you don't want to be a beta tester. Bears will test anything new that comes along for a year or two. They don't touch the Garcia or Bearikade etc. anymore (usually). They know it's not worth the effort. They will almost always thrash the ursack. "
I am still on the fence - really would hate the expense of two more Bearikades for our hike, as well as their weight and bulk. On the other hand, I HATE hanging food. It's not difficult at all, but you first have to find a tree that works (seriously restricting where you can make camp), or you must camp at the bear lockers in Kings Canyon south of Pinchot Pass. All this seriously restricts your flexibility of where to stop in that zone.
If it was ok to use the Ursack the way it is shown on their web site (tie to a tree or log), I'd be ok with it, but the word is you must hang it to be in compliance. I was pretty close to going with the Ursack as secondary food storage device in the southern Sierras, but now I am back to thinking canisters, just to be done with it.
1. What do you do with the bear can at night? Just leave it sitting out, unanchored? Couldn't a bear knock it down several thousand feet trying to get it open? What good is it if you can't find it next morning?
2. What is "counterbalancing" a food bag?
ChinMusic
05-19-2009, 09:33
1. What do you do with the bear can at night? Just leave it sitting out, unanchored? Couldn't a bear knock it down several thousand feet trying to get it open? What good is it if you can't find it next morning?
Just don't leave it near a cliff and all is well. Bears are not good soccer players. I've never heard of anyone not being able to find their bear canister, and if I did I would suspect another 2-legged culprit.
In Yellowstone and Glacier you need to get a backcountry permit and stay at designated campsites with bear poles.
Right and wrong. The permit is required in Yellowstone, but you are allowed to camp freely off trail in many areas. Unless that has changed since 2001 when I was last there.
Snowleopard
05-19-2009, 09:47
Bear canisters are required in the Eastern High Peaks Region of the Adirondacks.
Bear Vault is not recommended in parts of the Adirondacks:
In 2007 one or more bears at Marcy Dam in the Adirondacks learned how to open BearVault models. The bear(s) opened the lids by pressing in the snap on the lid with its canine tooth, unscrewing the lid past the housing lock and then opening the unit. There were no problems with BearVaults outside of this area.
In response to this a new lid was developed for 2008 which had two snaps on the lid which both required being pressed in sequentially- this is the model BV450/500. Testing was conducted during June and July 2008 at Marcy Dam and Lake Colden. We now have the test results. Surprisingly, the bear(s) pressed in the first snap with its incisor, rotated the lid and then pressed in the 2nd snap with its incisor and opened the lid.
...
Accordingly, BearVault recommends against using BearVault canisters in the Lake Colden/Marcy Dam corridor and the Johns Brook valley as these are within the bears' territory.
http://www.bearvault.com/bearvault_productnotices.php
No known problems elsewhere.
Ursack is not allowed in parts of the Adirondacks:
Soft-sided bear-resistant bags are commercially made and constructed of a material that purportedly cannot be torn open by bears. DEC tested these bags in the EHPZ and also documented the experience of campers who have used them in the EHPZ . In two cases bears were able to tear through the material and obtain food from the bags in the EHPZ. In addition to failing to keep food from bears, in those instances when a bear attempts to open a soft bag, the food inside becomes pulverized and mixed with bear saliva and dirt, rendering it unsuited for human consumption. Therefore, DEC does not feel that these bags are a reliable or practical method of storing food in the EHPZ, and should not be specifically allowed under the regulation.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/30876.html This NY site is recommended reading
Weights of canisters:
Garcia -- 2 lbs. 12 oz 614 cu in. $69.95
Bear Vault BV450 -- 2 lbs. 1 oz. 440 cubic inches. $66.95
Bear Vault BV500 -- 2 lbs. 9 oz. 700 cu. in. $79.95
Bearikade Weekender MKII 1 pound 15 ounces 650 cubic inch volume $225
Bearikade Expedition MKII 2 pounds 5 ounces 900 cu in volume. $275
The only negative thing that I've read about the Bearikade is that the edges are somewhat sharp and can cut lightweight pack material, so you may need to cover the edges. (And it's $200 more than the others).
I hate it that the Ursack doesn't work well enough. It's probably good enough for the AT and New England, but not the Adirondacks. It's not approved out west.
I have the Garcia and it's annoying to carry 2 lb 12 oz. I'm sometimes tempted to get an Ursack for New England hiking, but except for the Adirondacks hanging is good enough.
gregpphoto
07-29-2009, 03:41
Be aware that the Bearvault 400 has been broken into by a single bear in the Marcy Dam area of the Adirondacks. Not sure what the situation is currently, but I lost my food to this very smart female bear in August of 2007. Apparently she figured out how to pop the clasp on the lid. I believe Bearvault has introduced a new lid, but I know I won't be renting a Bearvault again!
maybeFritz
07-30-2009, 11:52
I am looking at the Barikade, but am trying to make a decision on which one. Just starting to hike (vice camp w/ day hikes), but want to do longer distances. Anyone have any advice on which to choose? My biggest concerns are:
A-amount of food for multi-day trips (I tend to eat a rather large amount within a day or two of departing)
B-fitting in a pack (I am upgrading pack shortly, and will probably lean toward a larger pack size) - I have never had to use a canister before, and am not aware of what issues may be involved in getting one in a pack (if any).
ChinMusic
07-30-2009, 12:35
I am looking at the Barikade, but am trying to make a decision on which one. Just starting to hike (vice camp w/ day hikes), but want to do longer distances. Anyone have any advice on which to choose? My biggest concerns are:
A friend of mine did an AT thru with a Weekender Bearikade. He first had purchased the Expedition but found it was way too big for him.
take-a-knee
07-30-2009, 12:35
I am looking at the Barikade, but am trying to make a decision on which one. Just starting to hike (vice camp w/ day hikes), but want to do longer distances. Anyone have any advice on which to choose? My biggest concerns are:
A-amount of food for multi-day trips (I tend to eat a rather large amount within a day or two of departing)
B-fitting in a pack (I am upgrading pack shortly, and will probably lean toward a larger pack size) - I have never had to use a canister before, and am not aware of what issues may be involved in getting one in a pack (if any).
Bearikades are available in custom lengths. I would get my next pack first (I recommend ULA packs, Brian, the owner, will tell you what size cannister will fit horizontally). Then you can order a Bearikade expedition just the right length to fit.
Snowleopard
07-30-2009, 12:46
gregpphoto, That was Yellow-yellow, now famous. Did you get her autograph? Bearvaults are no longer approved in the Eastern High Peaks of the ADK.
maybeFritz, You ought to be able to fit quite a bit of food in them if you pack right:
Some links on "Packing a bear canister" or "How to pack a bear canister"
http://www.sierrawildbear.gov/foodstorage/packingabearcanister.htm
www.pcta.org/planning/before_trip/health/canistercare.doc
http://friends.backcountry.net/pipermail/pct-l/2007-November/011088.html
Garcia and Bearikade are approved in the Adirondacks, Bearvault and Ursak are not.
Buy the bear canister before you buy the pack and see if everything fits.
Pacific Tortuga
07-30-2009, 12:51
Get ahold of the ADZPCTKO organizers. There is a loan program for PCT thru's to borrow a cannister while hiking in cannister territory.
I think it is still available on a first come first serve.
ChinMusic
07-30-2009, 15:14
Bearikades are available in custom lengths. I would get my next pack first (I recommend ULA packs, Brian, the owner, will tell you what size cannister will fit horizontally). Then you can order a Bearikade expedition just the right length to fit.
I forgot about that, that you could get custom ones. This poster has identified themselves as a newbie. I would think it would be tough for them to decide on a custom size.
The can is tough to fit in many packs that are thru-hiker type. It is a no-go with my Vapor Trail. I can make it work by placing it between the main body and the brain on my Osprey Aether 60. It is not an issue at all in my Arcteryx Bora 80.
Point is, packs do matter. It is a bit uncomfortable having it high on my Aether 60. I will sometimes take the food OUT of the Bearikade and load the food lower in my pack while moving only to put the food back in the Bearikade when done moving for the day. For me a Bearikade full of food is a bit top-heavy to ride above the main body.