View Full Version : Synthetic or down?
I know this is an old question, but I think that a recent backpacker article gives a straightforward answer to this question:
Q.} Down versus synthetic sleeping bags: What's the deal?
Submitted by: Steve Wozniak, Minneapolis, MN
A.} The deal is pretty simple actually. Do you wanna save money? Buy a synthetic. Do you wanna save weight? Go with down.
OK, now for some more details.
Synthetic insulations (like Primaloft, Climashield, and the plethora of proprietary insulations) are a safer choice if you often find yourself in wet conditions, such as backpacking Washington’s Olympic coast with a tarp for shelter, like I did a few years back. I was very grateful for my synthetic bag on that trip because synthetics don’t completely crap out on you when they get wet. Although they won’t exactly keep you toasty, wet synthetic bags are not totally useless. Wet feathers are. Until you get them dry, of course.
Personally, I’m a down bag snob. And it’s not just the weight–a high quality down bag can be over a pound lighter than a synthetic with the same temperature rating–it’s the cozy factor. I always sleep warmer, and warm up quicker, in a down bag. And now that you can get awesome waterproof stuffsacks–such as Sea to Summit’s eVent Compression Dry Sacks (Editors’ Choice Award winner in 2007) you at least won’t have to worry about your down bag getting wet in transit.
Two Speed
11-19-2008, 10:30
. . . such as backpacking Washington’s Olympic coast with a tarp for shelter . . . What size was the tarp? I'm looking at going to a 8' x 10' tarp and down quilt.
Good informative post. Thanks :)
One thing I've always noted about down bags over synthetic bags is that I get a lot less sweaty in down bags... I think the down breathes better and holds in less moisture. At least that's my personal, totally subjective experience... I have no science to back that up.
Not that I dislike synthetic bags, they have their place for sure. I currently only own down bags, and have used only down bags on my AT thru and my 1000 miles PCT hike. But if I were going to be kayaking off the Washington coast I would consider synthetic.
Still, for hiking, for me it will always (probably) be down. The weight savings of the down allows me to carry a little extra weight in a more substantial shelter, which ends up keeping the down bag dry anyway (and almost more importantly, the bugs away).
bigcranky
11-19-2008, 12:23
I think the cost savings are illusory. A good quality down bag is expensive, yes, but it retain its loft for many years. Even good synthetic bags get flat quickly with heavy use.
garlic08
11-19-2008, 12:40
I'm with the down snobs. I lived and hiked in the Washington Cascades for years and struggled with my synthetic bags, replacing them every 100 nights or so for loss of loft. All those wet nights in the rain forest and I always managed to keep the bag dry. I finally bit the bullet and invested in a good down bag and am kicking myself for waiting so long. I have learned to spend money on the bag.
rdsoxfan
11-19-2008, 12:48
I know this is an old question, but I think that a recent backpacker article gives a straightforward answer to this question:
Q.} Down versus synthetic sleeping bags: What's the deal?
Submitted by: Steve Wozniak, Minneapolis, MN
A.} The deal is pretty simple actually. Do you wanna save money? Buy a synthetic. Do you wanna save weight? Go with down.
OK, now for some more details.
Synthetic insulations (like Primaloft, Climashield, and the plethora of proprietary insulations) are a safer choice if you often find yourself in wet conditions, such as backpacking Washington’s Olympic coast with a tarp for shelter, like I did a few years back. I was very grateful for my synthetic bag on that trip because synthetics don’t completely crap out on you when they get wet. Although they won’t exactly keep you toasty, wet synthetic bags are not totally useless. Wet feathers are. Until you get them dry, of course.
Personally, I’m a down bag snob. And it’s not just the weight–a high quality down bag can be over a pound lighter than a synthetic with the same temperature rating–it’s the cozy factor. I always sleep warmer, and warm up quicker, in a down bag. And now that you can get awesome waterproof stuffsacks–such as Sea to Summit’s eVent Compression Dry Sacks (Editors’ Choice Award winner in 2007) you at least won’t have to worry about your down bag getting wet in transit.
I agree with everything you said about the bags. Plus the fact that you can get some high quality down bags with gortex outer shells now. There not cheap but definitely worth there weight and gold. Fo Sho'
Simple. To the point. Logical.
What's it doing on the internet ?!?!?!? :p
River Runner
11-20-2008, 02:39
One thing I've always noted about down bags over synthetic bags is that I get a lot less sweaty in down bags... I think the down breathes better and holds in less moisture. At least that's my personal, totally subjective experience... I have no science to back that up.
I feel the same way. Down bags (and jackets) seem to have a wider comfort range than synthetic.
RedneckRye
11-20-2008, 02:55
http://westernmountaineering.com/
All you need to know.
Get down, get down, get down baby, whooo ooo ooo ooo ooo ooo:banana
Get Down - KC & the Sunshine Band Wait for 2:25 into the video. KC wants you to get down
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lu81z2E6pE
800 fill power down and some of the new shell materials are nothing short of miraculous. They are so nice they're sinful...
I know this is an old question, but I think that a recent backpacker article gives a straightforward answer to this question:
Q.} Down versus synthetic sleeping bags: What's the deal?
Submitted by: Steve Wozniak, Minneapolis, MN
A.} The deal is pretty simple actually. Do you wanna save money? Buy a synthetic. Do you wanna save weight? Go with down.
OK, now for some more details.
Synthetic insulations (like Primaloft, Climashield, and the plethora of proprietary insulations) are a safer choice if you often find yourself in wet conditions, such as backpacking Washington’s Olympic coast with a tarp for shelter, like I did a few years back. I was very grateful for my synthetic bag on that trip because synthetics don’t completely crap out on you when they get wet. Although they won’t exactly keep you toasty, wet synthetic bags are not totally useless. Wet feathers are. Until you get them dry, of course.
Personally, I’m a down bag snob. And it’s not just the weight–a high quality down bag can be over a pound lighter than a synthetic with the same temperature rating–it’s the cozy factor. I always sleep warmer, and warm up quicker, in a down bag. And now that you can get awesome waterproof stuffsacks–such as Sea to Summit’s eVent Compression Dry Sacks (Editors’ Choice Award winner in 2007) you at least won’t have to worry about your down bag getting wet in transit.
Personally I feel down wins out on both counts. It may cost more initially but it lasts far longer. So, while the initial outlay of cash may be more initially for down, once it is depreciated over it's much longer 'useful' lifespan, it works out cheaper in the long run-compared to and over the useful life of both fills. Dont concern yourself much about it becoming wet-just store it in a silnylon bag and it will stay dry, even in a Gearskin where half of the silnylon covering your precious bag is always exposed to the elements on consecutive rainy days. I have been using the same feathered Friends Wren stuffed in the very same inexpensive Campmor silnylon bags since about 2001 or 2002and it has never gotten wet. It is an investment, something like tires. I much prefer to purchase an expensive set that gives me few problems rather than two cheap sets of cheaper (poorer quality) ones. The expensive tires become cheaper in the long run than even the cheaper (initially) ones. Just my opinion, though.
An afterthought to my above post. There is one drawback to being able to use the same down bag for thousands of miles and that is that it begins to smell funky, even to its single user. But, for $35.00, Feathered Friends washes mine, fills any lost down after repairing any small holes I inadvertently put in it and returns it to me in a new condition, sweet-smelling even like it was when I first slid my body inside its luxurious silky warmth. It is an amazing company producing wonderful bags. I own a winter Wren for colder weather but it stays in my closet as it is far too warm for me to use three season, as the lighter Wren works to below freezing for me. I am going to have to send it back to the factory soon for another washing and rejuvenation!
Maybe the life of a synthetic bag depends on the quality of the bag and the type of synthetic. I used a North Face Cats Meow bag for much of my thru-hike that was probably 10 years old at the time, and I'm still using it. It's been washed several times.
The point is, I've gotten lots of miles out of it, and expect to get a several more before I replace it. I suspect that for most of us here on this forum, the AT is about the most we will ever use our backpacking equipment. However, if you aspire to the Triple Crown, then perhaps down is the answer for you, but for the average Joe, we can use something less.
For years I stayed away from down because I was afraid of the wet factor. No lie. I have 11 sleeping bags. I inherited two Korean war army sleeping bags that my parents picked up somewhere way back in the 1960s. They're old and not very warm anymore. I mean, geez, 60 year old bags! But I use them in the summer for car camping trips. Then I have a bunch of synthetic bags that I bought over the years as my boys got into scouts. At one point, there were four of us camping on every outing. Somewhere along the line, I either bought or was given other synthetic bags for the boys. I don't know why, but people seemed to want to give me sleeping bags. They were all synthetic. Finally, this year I broke down and bought a decent down bag for myself, rated at 20 degrees. I find it to be far warmer than my 0 degree synthetic stretch bag. It's more comfortable, it's lighter, and I love it. Now I'm in the market for sleeping bag #12, which will be an EXCELLENT down bag for winter camping.
An afterthought to my above post. There is one drawback to being able to use the same down bag for thousands of miles and that is that it begins to smell funky, even to its single user. But, for $35.00, Feathered Friends washes mine, fills any lost down after repairing any small holes I inadvertently put in it and returns it to me in a new condition, sweet-smelling even like it was when I first slid my body inside its luxurious silky warmth. It is an amazing company producing wonderful bags. I own a winter Wren for colder weather but it stays in my closet as it is far too warm for me to use three season, as the lighter Wren works to below freezing for me. I am going to have to send it back to the factory soon for another washing and rejuvenation!
that is a pretty sweet deal
While in hindsight I wish I had splurged and spent the money on a 800-fill down bag, I feel like I've gotta put in a plug for Mountain Hardwear's Ultralamina synthetic bags which is what I currently have. If you absolutely can't afford a good down bag or need synthetic bag for wet conditions, the Ultralamina bags have a new variety of synthetic insulation that is chopped up smaller than standard. The bags are nearly as light as decent down (maybe like 700 fill or something?) and compress just as small. I've been really happy with mine.
I agree with everything you said about the bags. Plus the fact that you can get some high quality down bags with gortex outer shells now. There not cheap but definitely worth there weight and gold. Fo Sho'
Sewing a partially breathable, totally waterproof shell on a down bag will limit its breathability and comfort range and get the down damp faster. Better to buy a bivy and use it only when you need it.