View Full Version : Staying Warm at the Start
the Harms house
11-19-2008, 12:39
Hello all,
my wife and i are planning on starting down in GA around March 7th. We have a few questions concerning staying warm during those early chilly weeks and we would appreciate any and all advice and input.
What is recommended (particularly with clothes) to keep warm while hiking without adding a lot of weight?
About when do you send back your warmer clothes?
How warm of a sleeping bag is recommended for those early weeks and should we have a second bag for when it gets warmer? (i'd prefer to only use one bag for the whole trip)
Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time!
rdsoxfan
11-19-2008, 12:53
I would go with at least a 0* rated bag, and go with down if your a minimalist on the weight issue. A gortex outer shell and a mid weight Under Armor thermal layer will be fine. Also a mid weight thermal bottom to wear under hiking pants. I would ship the pants and thermal layers back home the middle to end of April.
Had snow the end of April in 2005, so I suggest waiting till May, or when you are past the VA highlands to send home the winter gear. (past Partnership shelter) I was fine with a 20 degree down bag and my Zoid tent. I used fleece for my mid layer and just Marmot precip for my top layer and I was fine except in the very coldest, snowiest conditions. (got caught in a blizzard in the Smokies, but that's another story...)
Now that I'm fine tuning my gear, I use a Smartwool base layer, Montbell UL down mid layer, and my Marmot Precip top layer.
the Harms house
11-19-2008, 13:35
thanks SoxFan and Red Hat. i really appreciate the advice.
Red Hat,
Was the 20 degree bag ok in the shelters on cold nights? b/c the shelters are more open, my wife tends to sleep much colder in them than in our tent.
thanks again!
When the shelters were full of people it was fine. (more folks, more heat) I'd say stay in your tent and stay warm.
ofthearth
11-19-2008, 15:38
If you do a search on clothing you will see it is discussed a good bit. All of the links probably do not relate to staying warm but you can skim the list (link below) and have a place to start.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/search.php?searchid=5029977&pp=25
The place to send stuff home is Neels gap. I think Winton said they sent back 3 tons thru UPS last year. ( Don't quote me ( or flame please) and yes there was probably other stuff included etc etc etc (troll deflection)). It is also the place that a lot of people swap out gear that's more appropriate. Good place good people. I wish I had somehow had the insight/knowledge to have purchased some of my gear there in the first place. I think a lot of stores/shop are really trying to help but don't have the experience of a long distance hike. The three places that helped me the most were
1 WB knowledgeable/helpful (there are some crankie ones ;)) people who have done it
2 SORUC Jan 16,17,18 ( http://soruck.net/ ) people (see above) done it and are doing it (hiking the AT) now - maybe. Also a real chance to see some real gear. And great food.
3 Neels gap - Winton and crew
Hope this helps
chair/ofthearth
Blissful
11-19-2008, 15:52
15 degree bag to start and I also brought a liner (can get down to single digits and Smokey are unpredictable).
Switch bags by mid May (good idea to have two bags. I actually had three. 15 degree to start. Marmot Pounder by end of May to August. Marmot Pounder Plus for NH and ME, but I had a smaller backpack then when I started the trail so my 15 degree synthetic wouldn't fit)
To start (I started March 5th) I carried a down jacket and mid weight polartec tights for camp, along with silk top (layering is the key). Must have a good fleece cap and gloves.
You can safely switch after Mt Rogers area in VA.
I started 1March and sleep very cold. A 20 down bag with a liner was generally warm enough. For clothing you'll want a baselayer, a down or synthetic coat or fleece and a raincoat. long john bottoms, rain pants, wool socks, a good wool hat and gloves should round out your clothing.
A tent is much warmer than a shelter, particularly with 2 people snuggling in it.
There are all sorts of ideas/articles/discussions about light warm clothes on this site, search the archives.
There is no hard and fast rule about sending winter clothes home. If you move at a consistantly quick pace you may never experience much summer. I had only a few weeks of real summer at a 5 month pace and a week of opressive heat. You SHOULD be ok by the time you get to Pearisburg, but it could still snow on you in May. I would hold onto your warm bag till Memorial Day. The beauty about the liner is that you can ditch it when it gets warmer, or ditch the winter bag and couple the liner with a cheapo summer bag like I did (check out Lafuma if you want something cheap).
Good luck!
garlic08
11-19-2008, 22:02
One bag for the whole trip might be tough. Start with a really good down bag in the 10 to 20F range (I loved my Marmot Helium 15), then switch to a lighter cheaper bag. I switched at Pearisburg in early May, and I was about a week too early. I belatedly heard some wisdom on that from Lois at the hostel in Montebello--keep your winter gear until after Trail Days (later in May), no matter where you are.
As you hike, the issue will be more of staying dry than staying warm. If you dress too warmly, you'll sweat too much. So use a couple of light layers and a light rain shell, but carry one good insulating layer (I used a down vest) for survival if needed. Be real careful about keeping the insulation dry, so you can always hike until you camp, then jump right in the bag. If you keep your diet simple (have plenty of snacks ready if it's too cold or nasty to cook), you won't have to spend much time out in the cold.
Really, those snowy mornings are beautiful, if you're comfortable enough to appreciate it. We had them in late April this year.
I carried a 20 degree bag and a liner, worked for me.
Kirby
River Runner
11-20-2008, 01:52
I think you would be really uncomfortable using the same bag you need to keep warm when it falls into single digits early in the hike when it's 80 degrees at night in mid-summer. I haven't thru hiked, but I have sectioned quite a bit, and my summer set up is a lot different than my '3-season' one. '3-season' on the AT can feel a lot like winter elsewhere.
For early spring/late fall when the temperatures can stay in the 40F (or lower) range during the day, I like to wear a light long sleeve silkweight shirt under a wool T-shirt, and have a light weight long sleeve wool zip-T for camp/sleeping, as well as an insulated jacket and rain jacket for top layers. This gives me a lot of layering options as well as making sure I have something dry to sleep in if I sweat out the hiking layers.
For bottom layers in temps that cold, I like a pair of silk weight long john bottoms and convertible pants for hiking, and a pair of lightweight merino long johns for camp/sleeping, and even a pair of insulated pants. I prefer layers I can wear to a sleeping bag liner because they are more versatile for keeping me warm as I do camp chores or relax before getting in my sleeping bag. With the insulated jacket and pants, my 20 degree WM Ultralite has worked well down into the teen's, which is the coldest I've experienced.
Blue Jay
11-20-2008, 13:33
Make sure you rig your tent for snow each night. Unlike rain it is silent. It really really sucks to wake up in the middle of the night under a nylon sheet covered with snow.
Sometimes the smart thing to do is to get out of the woods and rent a room especially when foul weather is expected or one's already wet and chilled and there is little prospect of getting dry and warm. A warm shower, hot meal, dry clothes and a fresh start when the weather improves can be a wise choice.
Starting later, in better condition, when one need carry less gear and can expect to make better time and spend less cash is an idea worthy of consideration.
blackbird04217
11-21-2008, 19:02
Ok this is on the topic of this thread but is a question more related to the sleeping bags. I've been reading a lot on the forum and it seems there is a lot on the subject of bags. Down vs Synthetic, I've already made the choice to go with synthetic - mostly because it dries out slightly better, and is cheaper. The additional weight doesn't bother me much - I'm probably not the first idiot to think this way, but I have a lot to learn and will with time and the experience of doing it my way first. However. I've read a lot about the rating system not being completely accurate, and also that it depends a lot on the individual.
I have two bags I am looking at, Katahdin Climashield ($140, 0*) and the Adventure Sleeping Bag ($80, 20*). Both are mummy style bags and the Katahdin is almost a pound heavier. I can only afford one, and am leaning towards the lighter, less expensive Adventure bag. I am quite a warm sleeper, and tend to sleep well in the cold, (don't care about getting out of bed or the bag when its cold but thats a different story all together). I can generally do about 30* with just the fleece blanket I have and stay comfortably warm once it gets up to temperature.
So where-as I will be heading onto the trail mid March to early April, (I am hoping for March 15th, but really this is a fuzzy area), do any experts have any advice on whether the idea of a 20* bag full time would be suicidal when it becomes chilly, or should it just be a little chilly in the begining and fine overall. As a last resort I've also been thought of taking a small fleece throw blanket with me and putting it in the sleeping bag during the colder nights. Then possibly mailing it back to HQ after it warms up a bit, or keeping it around and using it during the summer... I do plan on using a tent if thats a question that pops up while trying to help me out. Thank in advance.
Bigglesworth
11-21-2008, 21:20
Have a good base layer, top and bottom, and invest in a down jacket. They are very warm, very light, and can squash down to very small. Many find this excessive, but I never had less than three pairs of Smartwool socks with me, sometimes 4. I always had a dry pair of socks to put on, and that kept the beginning and end tolerable. I sent back some warmer clothes around Erwin I think, and the rest in Damascus. I thought a 20 degree synthetic bag would be ok for me but it definitely was not (it was older, too, though). Starting that early, I'd go with a 15 degree down, no colder than 20 degree. If you don't want to spend more money and you have a "borderline temperature" bag, consider a silk liner that will add more warmth, then in the summer months you can sleep just with the liner. Or you can get an inexpensive summer bag if you have the cash. I used a 15 degree Montbell in cold, and a 40 degree Lafuma in summer. Get your gear back in Bennigton, VT or North Adams. I think Hanover, NH, like many do is too late, unless you are fast and there very early when it is still warm. Once you think you have all your gear straight, get out there on a cold weekend about a month before you go and take a shakedown hike so you can figure out what you need to change up!!!
Hello all,
my wife and i are planning on starting down in GA around March 7th. We have a few questions concerning staying warm during those early chilly weeks and we would appreciate any and all advice and input.
What is recommended (particularly with clothes) to keep warm while hiking without adding a lot of weight?
About when do you send back your warmer clothes?
How warm of a sleeping bag is recommended for those early weeks and should we have a second bag for when it gets warmer? (i'd prefer to only use one bag for the whole trip)
Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks for taking the time!
volleypc
11-21-2008, 23:23
I am curious what gloves and socks you prefer this time of the year? I have my favorites, but I am curious what everyone else uses.
BarleyRain
11-25-2008, 23:25
We started March 6 2008 with a 25 degree synthetic bag that was DEFINITELY inadequate. If I had to do it over I'd take a 0 degree down bag. I was also quite jealous of those poofy down jackets. Nights were routinely in the 20s, often in the teens, and a couple of times in the single digits.
We had initially wanted to keep the same bags all the way, but this was a terrible idea. Way too light for the March weather and way too heavy for the June/July weather (we actually just used a couple of $10 fleece blankets for the summer months). Trust me, trying to do a full day's hiking after a sleepless night is miserable.
Mostly I was cold in camp, not so much while hiking and generating lots of body heat. For hiking warm, you can probably get away with just a good base layer. I like the Ibex wool underlayers, but they're pricey. You'll want warmer camp clothes and obviously some weatherproofs for wind or rain.
blackbird04217
11-26-2008, 02:15
We started March 6 2008 with a 25 degree synthetic bag that was DEFINITELY inadequate. If I had to do it over I'd take a 0 degree down bag. I was also quite jealous of those poofy down jackets. Nights were routinely in the 20s, often in the teens, and a couple of times in the single digits.
We had initially wanted to keep the same bags all the way, but this was a terrible idea. Way too light for the March weather and way too heavy for the June/July weather (we actually just used a couple of $10 fleece blankets for the summer months). Trust me, trying to do a full day's hiking after a sleepless night is miserable.
Mostly I was cold in camp, not so much while hiking and generating lots of body heat. For hiking warm, you can probably get away with just a good base layer. I like the Ibex wool underlayers, but they're pricey. You'll want warmer camp clothes and obviously some weatherproofs for wind or rain.
Just a question were you say it was a terrible idea, I had already had the plan to take a small fleece throw blanket for additional warmth in the colder months, and probably for all I need in the summer... However, my question is how warm do you typically sleep. I ask because I sleep better when it's cold. Also I've been testing myself and found that I am comfortable in my fleece blanket with the window open with outside temps dropping below or into the very low 20*s. So I've almost made up my mind to do the 20* bag, but would like to know if you were thinking these same thoughts before your trip.
Also, I've never slept in a Mummy bag, so this is a noob question but I'd rather try asking -> is it possible to curl up into the fetal position without the bag between your legs and body? I know you can in typical rectangle bags, but also mummy bags are a bit smaller so this is quite unknown.
Thanks in advance for any advice!
BarleyRain
11-26-2008, 10:36
I sleep comfortably at home with a thin blanket and ambient temps in the 50s, and I was surprised that the 25 bag wasn't warm enough. Also maybe you know this already if you've done a lot of camping, but the bag rating is the temperature at which you won't freeze to death, NOT the temperature at which you'll be comfortable. :-)
You might try keeping a thermometer INSIDE during your experiments; if it's in the 20s outside you might still be in the 40-50 range inside, which won't give you a very good idea of what to expect.
The fleece blanket worked great for the summer months.
tucker0104
11-28-2008, 21:24
What are you wearing in your sleeping bag?
I have found that a knit cap can make a world of difference both during the day & at night!
My current one weighs less than 2 Oz & is mostly carried as stuffing for my pillow case, but when it gets way cold (for me "way cold" is well below freezing) I add the cap, & maybe a pair of liner gloves & its all better. The gloves add less than 1 Oz.
Also, I'm sure you know this: layering of clothing in cold weather is very important. The goal is to stay slightly cool to avoid sweating. If you sweat, you are wet, if you are wet you are going to be cold. I stop sweating when it gets to around 60 deg. but get me wet & I stop hiking, , , , suffice it to say I have had hypothermia twice while on the AT, both times in 65+ degree weather but it was raining, & I got soaked, not by the rain, but by sweating.
FWIW: My clothing list Summer; 2 WB tee shirts, poly dress shirt, acrilic kilt, nylon / cotton shorts, 2 pr wool socks, ball cap, pair winter panty hose, nylon vest, Under armor long sleve shirt, gortex rain jacket, synthetic watch cap. Winter add; 3rd pair wool socks, 2nd pair panty hose, fleece vest, synthetic liner gloves, wool fingerless gloves. I may add a fleece jacket (pullover), but not sure yet, would rather have a lighter, zip up one.
Last hike I didn't carry the gloves & knit hat, Never again!
I hammock, so no help with the sleeping bag situation, sorry. Just keep everything dry & clean. When in doubt, wear your DRY clothes to bed.
I agree that you should sleep in your tent instead of the shelters & be warm!
Doctari.
chrishowe11
11-29-2008, 00:38
tip for staying warmer is to do push up's or crunches inside your bag, and always go pee at night if your cold your body spends a lot of energy warming uneeded liquid just a to i have found all this helpfull for planning my hike
River Runner
11-29-2008, 03:02
The dampness and wind can make a HUGE difference in how cold the temperature feels, so even if your bedroom is 20 degrees inside, it isnt' necessarily a good indicator of how 20 degrees would feel on the trail.
The dampness and wind can make a HUGE difference in how cold the temperature feels, so even if your bedroom is 20 degrees inside, it isnt' necessarily a good indicator of how 20 degrees would feel on the trail.
Location, Location, Location!
When buying a home or other property it is important. When setting up camp during cold weather it can be the difference between life & death, or at least the difference between sleeping at night & shivvering all night.
Even the direction you orient your shelter to can make a big difference, as can a change in elevation of (sometimes) just a few feet can be warmer or colder.
slimsalmon
11-29-2008, 16:13
Would a 20* bag be adequate for a start date of Apr 1st? Maybe with a bivy or liner?
Also, I'm wondering the best way to keep feet warm. My feet are always cold in the winter. Right now I'm wearing thick smart wool socks with my Asolo boots and it's 65* in my house. My feet still feel icy... Maybe caused by sweat? I sent off for some thin merino liner socks and a nylon vapor barrier sock, over which I'll try the thick wool socks. Is that about as good as you can do sock-wise? I used to wear polypro liners hiking, but then I found out everyone most people have switched to just smartwool type stuff. Is polypro any more effective than anything else in the winter?
Auntie Mame
11-29-2008, 18:18
Boy, do I miss the trail! Just reading this thread has me all misty-eyed for the preparation and early months of a long hike. I took a 15 degree down bag, it was great from March 5 to about trail days, as Lois said. (Hi, Barley and Rain!!) I was so glad to have a decent down bag, it really pays off in comfort and good sleep. For hiking itself, wool long sleeve top, tights, and either a short skirt or thin nylon pants were perfect most days in the early months. For camp, or lunch stops, gloves, insulated jacket, hat: the usual suspects. I hiked in Smarteool adrenaline socks, and Keen Targhee II ankle boots, the whole trip, which for me was about 1000 miles at end of season. I always kept a pair of dry wool socks to wear in camp and to sleep in.
Hope your prep goes well, and your hike is a blast!
Mame, '08 long sectioner
I used to wear polypro liners hiking, but then I found out everyone most people have switched to just smartwool type stuff. Is polypro any more effective than anything else in the winter?
I like polypro liners with Smartwool socks.
If I had boots on in the house, I would have cold feet, and a tounge lashing.
When I get cold feet, the only thing that works is to eat, and move around. Holds true in the house, too.
20 Degree Bag will do. Layer up & U might still wear all your clothes to sleep in but keep the skin covered & you'll get rest. If just too cold at night, keep a candy bar nearby and gobble it, digesting it will raise your core temp a few degrees and you'll drift off. Unfortunately it will not keep your socks from freezing.
Boil water...put in nalgene...put near feet in bag. Sleep.
You'll sleep cuz your tired and happy on the trail where the air is clean and the nights are perfect for sleeping cold air or no cold air.
River Runner
12-01-2008, 17:04
Would a 20* bag be adequate for a start date of Apr 1st? Maybe with a bivy or liner?
Also, I'm wondering the best way to keep feet warm. My feet are always cold in the winter. Right now I'm wearing thick smart wool socks with my Asolo boots and it's 65* in my house. My feet still feel icy... Maybe caused by sweat? I sent off for some thin merino liner socks and a nylon vapor barrier sock, over which I'll try the thick wool socks. Is that about as good as you can do sock-wise? I used to wear polypro liners hiking, but then I found out everyone most people have switched to just smartwool type stuff. Is polypro any more effective than anything else in the winter?
If your feet are chronically ice cold, make sure you have discussed this with your doctor, as it could be caused by a medical condition. If you already have, and medical conditions have been ruled out, try a pair of down booties. If your wool socks are damp, consider a blend that wicks well.