View Full Version : Veteran Thru-hikers & the economic crisis
Im just a section hiker so I cant get a total feel for this thought.
In consideration of the very real possibilities of a global depression coming on, I was wondering if you who have thru-hiked have greater confidence in your economic future based on your experiences of living in the woods for 6 or more months?
Jim Adams
11-21-2008, 23:10
never thought about it.
my pay scale is so low that my economy "crashes" every payday.
not much difference in living standards whether I'm at home or hiking.
geek
I own five down bags and loads of warm comforters. I don't think I'll freeze to death, anyway. Big gut, won't starve to death either. Not for a while, anyway.
Thats got nothing to do with it. We lived in the woods for a few days, then came to town for all our food, water purification, charge batteries, get a shower. We aren't surviving out there or anything.
Im just a section hiker so I cant get a total feel for this thought.
In consideration of the very real possibilities of a global depression coming on, I was wondering if you who have thru-hiked have greater confidence in your economic future based on your experiences of living in the woods for 6 or more months?
I don;t have greater confidence in my economic future, because I'm part of the job market like the rest of you. But, I do have greater confidence in my ability to do without less because of my experiences backpacking for long periods of time, just like I do because of living in the Andes for 3 months, and sharing a trailer with 10 others in New Orleans for 7 weeks.
I think most thru-hikers/ldh's internalize this and adapt back to real life with the mindset used during the hike/adventures. I've trained myself to need and want less than a lot of the people I see around me, but we all have our vices. I own more backpacking equipment than my neighbors and maybe drink more beer than others, but own less other things than others. It's all about choices.
If the economy continues this trend, maybe we'll all be eating Ramen every night, just some of us won't mind or waver from our normal menu :)
Blue Jay
11-22-2008, 09:38
Im just a section hiker so I cant get a total feel for this thought.
In consideration of the very real possibilities of a global depression coming on, I was wondering if you who have thru-hiked have greater confidence in your economic future based on your experiences of living in the woods for 6 or more months?
I don't think you have to be a thruhiker to figure out you don't need to spend much money to be happy. A section hiker, after only a few miles, can quickly see much of what we consider essential in consumer society is in fact merely fluff. With just a little food we're good to go.
I don;t have greater confidence in my economic future, because I'm part of the job market like the rest of you. But, I do have greater confidence in my ability to do without less because of my experiences backpacking for long periods of time, just like I do because of living in the Andes for 3 months, and sharing a trailer with 10 others in New Orleans for 7 weeks.
I think most thru-hikers/ldh's internalize this and adapt back to real life with the mindset used during the hike/adventures. I've trained myself to need and want less than a lot of the people I see around me, but we all have our vices. I own more backpacking equipment than my neighbors and maybe drink more beer than others, but own less other things than others. It's all about choices.
If the economy continues this trend, maybe we'll all be eating Ramen every night, just some of us won't mind or waver from our normal menu :)
For lunch everyday I drive about a mile from the office to a local county park, I park so I can look into the woods, open the car door, set my little stove on the ground and make a pot of Ramen or Lipton soup. That with a piece of bread and a few cookies costs me maybe $0.50/day. For entertainment I watch the birds, deer and squirrels.
The young man who works next to me has lunch delivered every day and sits at his desk. He spends $12.00-$15.00 per day. He also knows nothing about the outdoors and seems amazed that anyone would spend a Saturday walking in the woods instead of sleeping until noon.
It seems to me that it's about choices. With regard to the economy, people are either spenders or savers. During bad economic times I don't think their basic attitude changes. Savers still want to save and spenders still want to spend. It's just more difficult for both.
Im just a section hiker so I cant get a total feel for this thought.
First, it is NEVER "just a section hiker". I say this is a person who has never section hiked, but has thru-hiked a few trails. Section hiking is hard in its own way and rewarding. :) Any thru-hiker who cops an attitude because they are "better" than "just a section hiker"..well feh on them. :p
Anyway...
More than being a veteran thru-hiker (which means I know how to live simply), I think not having children, and a paid for truck that I can sleep in, means my life is ultimately portable. I have no responsibilities than other to myself.
If I had children, I'd be worried. But I don't. So I won't.
Tenderheart
11-22-2008, 15:29
I totally agree not to diminish your being a section hiker. This is the HARD way. You just get into the hike and then you go home. You never get your trail legs and the logistics must be a nightmare. When I returned from my thru hike, my wife and I built a small cottage in the woods. By small, I mean 656 square
Tenderheart
11-22-2008, 15:41
Oops, I hit the wrong key. By small, I mean 656 square feet. We don't have a storage shed and we have nothing in storage. I have earnestly tried to maintain my minimalist life style. My friends and acquaintances cannot begin to understand this, but so be it. If you maintain a simple life, then you really don't need excesses. A man once told me that a house is simply a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get more stuff. I consider this to be something to remember. Backpacking is a great teacher in this respect.
litefoot 2000
hopefulhiker
11-22-2008, 17:32
Hiking the trail was actually very humbling for me and as for my economic future,as an investor things are looking pretty grim right now. My plan is to just try to cut back on most things and try to ride this one out for about six years...
superman
11-22-2008, 18:03
Back in the day, people planned for rainy days, which every one had from time to time. When I've tried to mention this to young folks they looked at me like I don't know anything. Well, this old dummy has his house paid for and virtually no debt. My financial strategy is to buy good stocks that are depressed by this temporary down turn. My hiking plans are only limited by my commitment and doting over my aging best friend (Winter). If the USA goes under then you'll need an assortment of personal weaponry with at least a case of ammo for each. I'm set...how bout you?:-?
Ant & grasshopper.
Plenty of hooks and monofilament in the same box.
Feed that dog some egg noodles. Little tuna juice to sweeten it. (Not that I've ever doted on an old mutt.)
gollwoods
11-22-2008, 20:34
There are corrections to excesses not just in markets where things are traded but in societies as well. we have excesses in consumption now and the correction will reduce that to the mean and probably below mean for some period. this will be the hardest thing to adapt to. learning that consumption is not all life is about
papa john
11-22-2008, 20:44
Oops, I hit the wrong key. By small, I mean 656 square feet. We don't have a storage shed and we have nothing in storage. I have earnestly tried to maintain my minimalist life style. My friends and acquaintances cannot begin to understand this, but so be it. If you maintain a simple life, then you really don't need excesses. A man once told me that a house is simply a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get more stuff. I consider this to be something to remember. Backpacking is a great teacher in this respect.
litefoot 2000
I'd be very interested in learning more about your house in the woods. Any pictures?
fiddlehead
11-23-2008, 00:00
Some veteran thru hikers would say this economic downturn is just another blowdown we have to find our way around.
The woods will be the same anyway. WE may have to eat more mac and cheese and less steak and caviar but the trail winds on.
Lone Wolf
11-23-2008, 08:41
I was wondering if you who have thru-hiked have greater confidence in your economic future based on your experiences of living in the woods for 6 or more months?
thru-hikers don't live in the woods for 6 months. they're constantly in and out of towns the whole way
Toolshed
11-23-2008, 09:43
Back in the day, people planned for rainy days, which every one had from time to time. When I've tried to mention this to young folks they looked at me like I don't know anything. Well, this old dummy has his house paid for and virtually no debt. My financial strategy is to buy good stocks that are depressed by this temporary down turn. My hiking plans are only limited by my commitment and doting over my aging best friend (Winter). If the USA goes under then you'll need an assortment of personal weaponry with at least a case of ammo for each. I'm set...how bout you?:-?
Ditto. I work in NJ with the same sort. They also have a lot of debt problems.
I don't fit in - When things were "good", I was cautious, having weathered downturns, I knew one could come along (as many of us in their 40's and 50's would). Now that things are "Bad" I am as optimistic as ever. I know this will end and I am looking at this down turn as a rare opportunity for us to get some real bargains for my buy and hold strategies.
The old adage "It shall come to pass" really holds true. I had no money in my 20's and realized it wasn't a big deal....I was lucky to marry a woman who wasn't impressed by luxury as well as the opportunity to watch my father for years. There are people who show wealth and have not a penny to spare and those who look poor, but are really money strategists. The former get respect from everyone like them until the charade is up. The latter - my father, (and probably many like this are on this board) just go about their lives - comfortable and happy.
P.S. I am looking to buy another cheap "used" handgun since now people are trading them in for cash. :D
daddytwosticks
11-23-2008, 15:16
Excellent post Toolshed...I couldn't agree with you more! Things will get better. The question is, will people then go back to their old ways, or finally learn?
Im just a section hiker so I cant get a total feel for this thought.
In consideration of the very real possibilities of a global depression coming on, I was wondering if you who have thru-hiked have greater confidence in your economic future based on your experiences of living in the woods for 6 or more months?
First, like others have already pointed out, don't demean yourself because U R a section hiker. I suppose, in some sense, we R all section hikers. Some of us just section hike longer sections than others.
If, U R asking "has thru hiking led me to lead a simpler, less complicated, and more self-reliant lifestyle" the answer is a resounding "YES". Does being a thru-hiker necessarily make one a minimalist, survivalist, or economically bombproof, "NO". I will say that one of the reasons I thru-hike is to remove myself from the "manmade generated static" of front page headlines that too often results in fear induced thinking.
One more aside. Do U realize how much Americans talk, think, and R exposed about/to money? Of course the word money isn't always used. Other more important sounding, sometimes veiled words, R often used. When I hear words like the economy, economic indicators(something U will be sure to hear alot about during the Christmas season), economic development, unemployment rates, credit crunches, wall street down turns/up trends, bail outs, etc. etc. etc. what is being discussed is the flow of money. Turning on any TV station or perusing major news publications will bombard U with the appeal for money. My solution-get out and hike more often!!!
I was wondering if you who have thru-hiked have greater confidence in your economic future based on your experiences of living in the woods for 6 or more months?
I know of no other act, expression, activity or persuasion that will provide more life confidence than thru-hiking the Appalachian Trail.
Datto
First, it is NEVER "just a section hiker". I say this is a person who has never section hiked, but has thru-hiked a few trails. Section hiking is hard in its own way and rewarding. :) Any thru-hiker who cops an attitude because they are "better" than "just a section hiker"..well feh on them. :p
Anyway...
More than being a veteran thru-hiker (which means I know how to live simply), I think not having children, and a paid for truck that I can sleep in, means my life is ultimately portable. I have no responsibilities than other to myself.
If I had children, I'd be worried. But I don't. So I won't.
Ah Mags. My first child, a daughter, was born when I was your age. So I can relate. I did a lot of things and have many fond memories of those first 34 years. But the next 45 have been even better.
Oh Yes. I forgot. This is supposed to be about how the trail influenced my ability to survive a depression, not my kids. But I can't resist. All three did a lot of hiking. My two sons, occasionally accompanied by my daugher, all had section hiked Maine by the time they were 13. I walked from Springer to Katahdin 30 years after my daughter was born.
Having lived only responsible to myself before my marriage at 33, I, like you, was pretty well prepared for most anything that didn't cost a lot of money. I paid cash for my mostly junk cars. I was adept at one pot meals, hitch hiking, and traveling with only a tarp, sleeping bag, and air mattress.
My house has no mortgage, so I probably won't have to return to those pre age 33 times, even if a depression comes. Which incidentally, I expect.
Though my long walk happened 17 years ago, it seems like yesterday. I don't do many long walks any more. But in my mind I still think about doing so. I still experiment with, and practice cooking good, cheap, one-pot meals. I even occasionally buy light weight gear. So, I'm ready. Let the hard times roll.
But first I need to protect another mountain.
Weary www.matlt.org
Bare Bear
12-01-2008, 10:12
I had nothing but admiration for folks like Sleepwalker who was a section hiker. It seemed to me that it was a lot harder to go hike for 2-3 weeks then go home again just when you got to feeling good rounding into trail shape. To do that for 20 years was a lot harder than going out for six months.
Economy wise...I think most hikers generally take a more gentle approach to living and this makes it easier for us to resist the "I gotta get more stuff" thinking. That does make it easier to get by when the economy is adjusting.
I agree with bare.. section hikers and TENECIOUS. I think it is tuffer, over the long haul, to section. I don't think it is a bad idea to get in the woods right now...a perfect place to watch what happens!
Lone Wolf
12-01-2008, 10:50
what's tenecious?
Weary, you sound like a very cool person..:)
lol. Wolf...I think you might be !
Lone Wolf
12-01-2008, 10:55
lol. Wolf...I think you might be !
might be what? :-?
tenecious....lol..hey, even though i am in washington it is still too early to be laughing ....sly would not approve !
Lone Wolf
12-01-2008, 11:19
tenecious is not a word
4eyedbuzzard
12-01-2008, 11:41
tenecious is not a word
No, but pithy is. :D
I may have spelled it wrong... which is a definite possibility.. haha... but is a word.
I may have spelled it wrong... which is a definite possibility.. haha... but is a word.
Yeah you did it's "tenacious" LW probably knew what you meant,
that is what I figured. Hi Sly...whatcha up to ?
As Brad would say he is a " fancy talker boy "..haha
Lone Wolf
12-01-2008, 12:04
brad who?
Serial 07
12-01-2008, 12:15
lol...this is a fun thread...i don't know if i'm economically bombproof (prolly not), but i definitely have a better feel from what i need versus what i want...at least when it comes to purchases...there's nothing like going to the grocery store and picking up an item, thinking about how much it weighs, and then realizing your home and the cupboard will support it...what's that got to do with anything? i'm not sure, i just woke up...it's my day off...
sherrill
12-01-2008, 12:15
Excellent post Toolshed...I couldn't agree with you more! Things will get better. The question is, will people then go back to their old ways, or finally learn?
Some will, some won't.
For example, I read an article in a local paper about the lower gas prices. One guy was quoted as saying that he's glad prices are down because now he can afford to drive his V8 Explorer again.
Seems like he got by without it when gas was 4 bucks a gallon, what's different??
If you maintain a simple life, then you really don't need excesses. A man once told me that a house is simply a place to keep your stuff while you go out and get more stuff. I consider this to be something to remember.
litefoot 2000
Was it George Carlin?
Okay, I'm not being snarky. But I have to agree with others who have said that they are a little less worried because they don't have kids.
I don't have any kids--but if I did I would be extremely nervous. My bills are small in number, so i get by okay. But having a child or children would be really tough.
SECTION HIKER OF MANY TRAILS AND COUNTING...
Many Walks
12-01-2008, 16:01
A section hike generally means leaving your current environment for a while and returning to it, hopefully more refreshed. It's just a vacation and the basic lifestyle isn't likely to change, especially if a spouse stays home. When I section or day hike, I'm not as concerned about weight, because I know I'm not carrying it forever. I think a thru hike has a bit more of a mental impact knowing you'll be packing the distance. We knew our thru hike would change our outlook on the world and took the opportunity to plan in advance to simplify. We sold our 30 year accumulation of properties and major possessions, and gave away the rest. LOT'S of like new "stuff" was suddenly no longer our responsibility. After the hike we settled in the mountains of Northern CA and don't want more than we really need. This time of year when all that stuff is on sale, it all just looks too heavy to own, and we have NO desire to buy it. Sheryl Crow sang it best, "It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you have." A thru hike tends to put it all in perspective, at least it did for us. We don't need a lot of money, because we aren't spending much, yet we do what we want, when we want. We only have one life, so we decided we'd rather live the rest of it living the way we want rather than continuing to spend most of our time on some dreaded job chasing the dollar just to maintain a high cost lifestyle full of stuff. I think a simple life is a life well lived and that really is the essence of a thru hike. If the economy goes belly up, we're in a much better position now than we were before our hike. Wish you the best.
Rockhound
12-01-2008, 16:44
"If you own a rug, you own too much." Kerouak
Lone Wolf
12-01-2008, 16:49
kerouak didn't own any writing skills
kerouak didn't own any writing skills
Yup. That's probably why we still read him and talk about him years after his death and decades after his only significant books.
"If you own a rug, you own too much." Kerouak
He didn't have to own a rug. He lived with his mom. She owned the rugs.
Lone Wolf
12-01-2008, 17:32
who's "we"?
Mother's Finest
12-01-2008, 17:34
try this author on for size....
Nassim Taleb The Black Swan
peace
mf
I work for a company that went thru a merger last year and during our “redeployment” phase in April saw some of my long time friends lose their jobs. I kind of joked with the wife that I was disappointed I made the cut. Not that I mind a paycheck, but like some have mentioned living simply, circumvents some of the money traps people fall into and a layoff isn’t the end of the world, it’s a chance to hike more! :banana
It is a lifestyle for some of us section hikers, I just paged through my log book and counted 17 trips to the AT in the last 9 years and before that there were countless other hikes in the Allegheny's in western PA. The lessons I’ve learned have been invaluable…what used to be important now seems trivial. Time to think without distraction, realizing how little we really need to be happy are just a couple of the fringe benefits of the trail.
who's "we"?
Well, I pick up my copy from time to time as Kerouac gets mention in the press. He gets mentioned from time to time on this web site, though I know we don't rank very high in the intellectual capital of our nation.
I think Kerouac has survived better than all but a few of his writing generation.
Will he last? Who knows? But he has survived his first hurdles far better than I would have suspected when I first read his books in the 50s and 60s. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt.
Weary
I work for a company that went thru a merger last year and during our “redeployment” phase in April saw some of my long time friends lose their jobs. I kind of joked with the wife that I was disappointed I made the cut. Not that I mind a paycheck, but like some have mentioned living simply, circumvents some of the money traps people fall into and a layoff isn’t the end of the world, it’s a chance to hike more! :banana
It is a lifestyle for some of us section hikers, I just paged through my log book and counted 17 trips to the AT in the last 9 years and before that there were countless other hikes in the Allegheny's in western PA. The lessons I’ve learned have been invaluable…what used to be important now seems trivial. Time to think without distraction, realizing how little we really need to be happy are just a couple of the fringe benefits of the trail.
Among some of the more interesting people I met on my walk in 1993 were a father and son team of construction workers. The Dad said he welcomed the occasional layoff his job entailed. "I always head right for the trail and do a few more miles," he said.
Weary
kerouak didn't own any writing skills
Ya really, what are folks reading down Damascus way? Pynchon? David Foster Wallace? Richard Dawkins? ;)
"Whee. Sal, we gotta go and never stop going till we get there." "Where we going, man?" "I don't know but we gotta go."
—Jack Kerouac
Ya really, what are folks reading down Damascus way? Pynchon? David Foster Wallace? Richard Dawkins? ;)
If you want some inspiration and good advice for real life, stick with Calvin and Hobbes.
Lone Wolf
12-02-2008, 07:13
"Whee. Sal, we gotta go and never stop going till we get there." "Where we going, man?" "I don't know but we gotta go."
—Jack Kerouac
wow. awesome. gonna rush out to books-a-million and buy up all things jack
Ya really, what are folks reading down Damascus way? Pynchon? David Foster Wallace? Richard Dawkins? ;)
Diet for a Small Planet.
NICKTHEGREEK
12-02-2008, 07:43
No, but pithy is. :D
That's how they pronounce pissy on Broadway