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gmu
04-02-2004, 18:10
Is the everyday Crest/Aquafresh/Colgate toothpaste you get at the drugstore biodegradable?

torch
04-02-2004, 22:20
Not all of the components are biodegradable, but except for the silica, they are all water soluble, which means they will eventually find their way into the ground water supply.

Another option is baking soda. It is certainly harmless, though a pain in the butt to pack!

Footslogger
04-03-2004, 13:36
I seriously doubt it ...but then again you're only using a pea sized (or smaller) amount each morning/night. In that regard ...rather than depositing it on the ground you might want to walk out of your campsite and find a large rock on which to spit the waste. It will spread on on the rock surface where it will be sun bleached and rain washed before it hits the ground.

Just a thought ...

'Slogger

weary
04-03-2004, 21:45
Is the everyday Crest/Aquafresh/Colgate toothpaste you get at the drugstore biodegradable?

Very little that we use on the trail is totally biodegradeable, given the trail environment -- including baking soda.

The important question is not whether things are biodegradeable, but whether they are harmful to plant and animal life in the quantities that are likely to accumulate from hiker activity.

I suspect that Crest et al are harmless, except for the unnatural, though otherwise harmless, white stain that remains from hikers spitting on rocks or soil. My practice is to kick a small impression in soft dirt with my foot, spit any toothpaste into that depression, and then using the same foot, spreading whatever dirt that I kicked up over the area.

This protects sensitive people from seeing the unnatural whiteness that ensues from toothpaste having been spit in the open.

I'm pondering the question of the harm that might ensue from hikers seeing the unnaturally white teeth that tend to follow the use of Crest et al by hikers, but as yet have not come to a conclusion.

My problem is that Crest sells about 83 different varieties for different kinds of tooth problems, real, imagined, or aesthetic. I never can figure out which variety to buy because I don't especially want any of the things that each variety promises to cure or prevent. And with the possible exception of unnaturally white teeth, everything that each variety of crest et al promises to do strikes me as useful.

Weary

torch
04-04-2004, 14:39
Actually, baking soda is completely biodegradable. The only two components, sodium cation and carbonate, are both easily absorbed and utilized by every living thing on this planet.

weary
04-04-2004, 15:08
Actually, baking soda is completely biodegradable. The only two components, sodium cation and carbonate, are both easily absorbed and utilized by every living thing on this planet.

My last chemistry course was 60 years ago, so I'm willing to accept Torch's superior wisdom. I do remember that if you combine it with an acid, you produce carbon dioxide, which means, I think, if you pee on your spit after using baking soda for cleaning your teeth, you release carbon dioxide and we all know what that stuff does.

Well, if not, I'll tell you. It helps plants grow big and strong. Oh yes. It also traps the heat of the sun, making the earth warm enough for civilization to have evolved -- and if we don't stop may even make the earth too warm for civilization to continue.

Weary

Jaybird
04-04-2004, 18:07
Is the everyday Crest/Aquafresh/Colgate toothpaste you get at the drugstore biodegradable?



it is after you swallow it!

bobgessner57
04-04-2004, 23:17
Baking soda is more abrasive than regular toothpaste, even the ones that use it as an additive. My dentist says it is ok for me but not to do it all year round. My wife has poor tooth enamel and pure baking soda is not recommended for her. On the trail it is also useful as a sting remedy, antacid, and helps as a deoderant. I always try to clean up a bit before hitting town. A bit of b soda in the pits on town days does seem to help. I carry it in a small plastic "tin" that I think came from the Walmart travel gadget rack where they keep the dinky tubes of toothpaste, deoderant, etc.

gravityman
04-05-2004, 10:33
it is after you swallow it!

Read the instructions - They say DON'T swallow the toothpaste. I never knew that and always swallowed it when out. Then this was pointed out to me... so I stopped. No idea why...

Gravity man

smokymtnsteve
04-05-2004, 10:38
I use doc bronners peppermint soap for "toothpaste"

torch
04-05-2004, 15:22
You are not supposed to swallow tooth paste because it contains a fairly large quantity (relative to what you would normally be exposed to, at least) of sodium fluoride. The fluoride ion is the nasty part. You know that really thick, nasty stuff they use for acid-etching glass? That is hydrofluoric acid, again, the fluoride is nasty there, not the acid. The stuff is very potent. Look at the percentage of sodium fluoride in toothpaste. It looks very low, but still large enough that long term use can cause damage if you swallow it. Most municipalities put even lower doses in the water supply. At any rate, what tooth paste literally does is etch the outer enamel off your teeth. Baking soda is actually much less powerful, except the concentration is so much greater.

gravityman
04-05-2004, 16:17
You are not supposed to swallow tooth paste because it contains a fairly large quantity (relative to what you would normally be exposed to, at least) of sodium fluoride. The fluoride ion is the nasty part. You know that really thick, nasty stuff they use for acid-etching glass? That is hydrofluoric acid, again, the fluoride is nasty there, not the acid. The stuff is very potent. Look at the percentage of sodium fluoride in toothpaste. It looks very low, but still large enough that long term use can cause damage if you swallow it. Most municipalities put even lower doses in the water supply. At any rate, what tooth paste literally does is etch the outer enamel off your teeth. Baking soda is actually much less powerful, except the concentration is so much greater.

HUH? What? Sodium Fluoride is not hydrofluroic acid. And there is nothing nasty about flouride, but there is a lot of strange urban legends about it... There are a very small amount of people that have bad reactions to fluoride though... These are the people usually trotted out when people start talking about trying to remove flouride in our water...

Tooth paste does not "etch" the outer enamel off our teeth (unless you have unusually weak enamel. It helps remove bacteria and the food particles they live on.

There is a wealth of info on the web about this. Plenty of cr*p too... It's important to learn to filter your information...

Gravity man

Moon Monster
04-05-2004, 20:01
And there is nothing nasty about flouride, but there is a lot of strange urban legends about it... There are a very small amount of people that have bad reactions to fluoride though... These are the people usually trotted out when people start talking about trying to remove flouride in our water...Gravity man

True. But, you may not know whether you are one of these extra-sensitive people until you start exploding your dose of fluoride by swallowing your toothpaste. So, it is a good idea to not do it just in case.

Check out http://www.fluoridealert.org for some info from the anti-F side.

DeoreDX
04-05-2004, 20:55
I usually use just my toothbrush and water or I throw a listerine breath strip (you know, the dissolving lsd typ stuff) in a 1/4 mouthfull of water and brush with it. Gets my mouth feeling nice and clean, and I can swallow and not have to spit it out.

Lone Wolf
04-05-2004, 21:18
Just dig a hole with your heel and spit it in it. Cover it. The friggin Earth can handle it.

Streamweaver
04-05-2004, 21:42
"True. But, you may not know whether you are one of these extra-sensitive people until you start exploding your dose of fluoride by swallowing your toothpaste. So, it is a good idea to not do it just in case"

I have to agree with that,I got a fluoride treatment once and I barely swallowed any but I was blowing chunks for almost 24 hours!! Im sure the fluoride in toothpaste isnt as strong as what the dentist put on my teeth but better to be safe than sorry! Also,the stuff that foams up in toothpaste is detergents ,which could also make you ill though I doubt it would be all that serious for most people. Like LW said the ground can handle a little toothpaste ,if it can breakdown leaves,branches and such into dirt it can breakdown toothpaste! Streamweaver

weary
04-05-2004, 22:14
Just dig a hole with your heel and spit it in it. Cover it. The friggin Earth can handle it.

True! true! true! If a bit of toothpaste were a real probem, we all would have been dead years ago.

I'm constantly amazed by worries about trivial matters, and almost total neglect of important environmental issues. Far more damaging to the trail environment -- probably a billion fold more damaging -- is the subtefuge by our president that has resulted in the abandonment of air pollution controls over the utility industry, the primary source air pollution-induced human sickness, as well as damage to wildlife, plants and forests from acid rain.

Weary

torch
04-05-2004, 22:21
HUH? What? Sodium Fluoride is not hydrofluroic acid. And there is nothing nasty about flouride, but there is a lot of strange urban legends about it... There are a very small amount of people that have bad reactions to fluoride though... These are the people usually trotted out when people start talking about trying to remove flouride in our water...

Tooth paste does not "etch" the outer enamel off our teeth (unless you have unusually weak enamel. It helps remove bacteria and the food particles they live on.

There is a wealth of info on the web about this. Plenty of cr*p too... It's important to learn to filter your information...

Gravity man
I never stated that sodium fluoride was hydrofluoric acid. I said it was the fluoride ion that does the work in acid etching, not the proton (acid) portion of it. The fluoride ion in sodium fluoride and hydrofluoric acid are the same, even though the two ionic compounds are not. And fluoride ion does indeed etch the enamel. It is a very potent nucleophilic ion and is quite adept at forcing off the hydroxide ion from hydroxyapatite, the mineral that makes up tooth enamel. It is also capable of changing the chemical composition of the phosphate ions in hydroxyapatite to a phosphofluoride compound. This does two things: it thins the enamal, but it also makes it harder and more resistant to wear, which is why we still use fluoride toothpaste.

gmu
04-06-2004, 08:46
I'm constantly amazed by worries about trivial matters, and almost total neglect of important environmental issues. Far more damaging to the trail environment -- probably a billion fold more damaging -- is the subtefuge by our president that has resulted in the abandonment of air pollution controls over the utility industry, the primary source air pollution-induced human sickness, as well as damage to wildlife, plants and forests from acid rain.

Weary
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/06/opinion/06KRUG.html?hp

This column was published in this morning's issue of the New York Times and supports Weary's claims; this administration constantly panders to big-business interests and has no regard for future generations' enjoyment of a clean, healthy place to live.

Compassionate conservatism? At its best!!

On the contrary, Weary, trivial matters such as the one I raised are central in the fight for a clean environment--if everyone had such concerns, the big picture wouldn't be so difficult to see.

Jaybird
04-06-2004, 09:34
[QUOTE=gmu]http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/06/opinion/06KRUG.html?hp

This column was published in this morning's issue of the New York Times and supports Weary's claims; this administration constantly panders to big-business interests and has no regard for future generations' enjoyment of a clean, healthy place to live.
Compassionate conservatism? At its best!!



Is anyone surprised by these so called: "revelations"???


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