View Full Version : sleeping bag/bivy sacks/shelter's
chrishowe11
11-27-2008, 12:21
I was just curious on what people think about mostly depending on shelters but having a bivy sack for emergencies and when the shelter is just to full. Another thing about Bivy sacks is the condensation, how will that work with a down bag? Was thinking about going with a 20 degree systhetic will that be enough? get a liner mabey? or can the bivy provide that extra warmth on the cold nights in the begining?
would just like to hear some positives/negatives of the bivy/shelter idea and what to do for a sleeping bag. Another thing I'd like to hear about is strait up hiking boots vs a trail hiking shoe saftey? more weight? if you all would spill your knowlege onto me it would be appreciated thanks happy turkey day.
Lone Wolf
11-27-2008, 12:26
never count on shelters. always carry some form of shelter and know how to set it up.
i'd take a tarptent over a bivy.
Slo-go'en
11-27-2008, 12:52
A bivy sack will typically add 10-15 degrees to your bag. One nice thing about a bivy sack is you can use it in crowded shelter. If you have one with built in netting and hoops, it can also give you bug protection. One such bivy is the Outdoor Research Advanced bivy.
The down side of the bivy is you need a good sized tarp to go along with it. Otherwise, there is no way to get in and out of it without getting wet or keep the rest of your gear dry if it is raining. If you need to set up outside a shelter, its likely raining.
If your on the trail at the same time everyone else is, if you want shelter space, be sure to be the first one up in the morning and hike fast!
One thing to think about is that during summer, even when shelters are available, the mosquitoes may be so bad that you need something enclosed to sleep in. If you're ok sleeping in a bivy, that could work, but you could be looking at sleeping in that bivy a lot of nights--a lot of very warm nights, at that.
aaroniguana
11-27-2008, 13:22
Shires Contrail weighs 20 ounces, takes up very little room packed, sets up in 3 minutes and is pretty hearty. Lighter than a bivy/tarp combo.
My current shelter system year round is as follows...
blue foam pad = 10oz (72"x28"x3/8")
gortex bivy bag = 32oz (CF military surplus)
rain poncho/tarp = 10oz (including cord and pegs)
With the bivy bag its not that much lighter than some tents, but I really like the veratility in being able to crash anywhere. I use a very simple pitch for the poncho. Either a pup tent for just the head end, or a lengthwise lean to, which is very open but nice for sitting up under. I've also done the sideways lean to. With the bivy and bluefoam pad it really doesn't matter that much, but even if its not raining I sometimes put it up anyway just 'cause its quick and fun, making a wee home, taking advantage of whatever logs or rocks or stumps or trees or shrubs are there. If I crash after dark and theres no rain its often just into the sack on the side of the trail and back up and moving again at sunrise without much ceremony, then breakfast at the first stream.
I agree its not great for bugs. I might just rig a bug net for my top half.
Not sure yet what the best size/shape might be for this.
chrishowe11
11-27-2008, 13:51
any recomendations for a bivy sack with hoop's/bug net
WILLIAM HAYES
11-27-2008, 15:35
You will get condensation with any bivy I don't care what they advertise I have used a OR bivy off and on for years with a tarp it has worked well for me but in damp conditions your bag will get wet I now use a hammock which is the best quality sleep I have ever had on the trail
Hillbilly
There's very limited room in the bivy for a change of cloths, and of course your pack won't fit. I've got one and find it of limited use. If it's raining, you'll get wet getting out of it, for sure.
I mostly use mine on my boat now, sleeping out on the nets.
Tipi Walter
11-27-2008, 17:51
On my recent last trip I saw a kid in a homemade Tyvek bivy sac and he got caught in an all night winter rain/sleet with high winds and woke up soaked. His friends all had tents and we laughed at his set up. He laughed, too.
People have mentioned the drawbacks but there's always the appeal in throwing down a bivy bedroll and crapping out where you stand. Find a place under some laurel, next to a tree, under a rock ledge, anywhere there's a tiny level spot. What potential!
Froggy, William Hayes, Burger--all make great points: Condensation, bugs, lack of storage space, water leaks, etc. About 3 years ago I saw a group up around 5000 feet in zero degrees and the poor bivy boy had no choice but to hit his sac at 5:30pm when it got dark and stay put till morning. Could he stay up to read? Not likely. Could he light a candle and hang? Nope. I felt sorry for the guy and it reminded me of some terrible nights constricted in my own nylon coffin. A zipped up sleeping bag is bad enough, throw over a bivy sac and there's no joy left.
chrishowe11
11-27-2008, 23:57
another question, how often do people find themselves not staying at shelters on average a week. My plan is to use leanto's as a primary shelter, im thinking mabey twice a week? just some feedback on that would be great. I found a bivy/tent thing that might be good for the job http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442590625&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=282574488340425
For the same weight as that coffin, you can get a Henry Shires Rainbow or Squall, and have all sorts of room. Enough for all your stuff.
Just picture it - a 40 degree downpour, shelter's full (of stinking, snoring hikers, and mice, chipmunks... you get the picture), and you're trying to get into that little thing and keep you and your stuff dry - not gonna happen.
www.tarptent.com (http://www.tarptent.com)
another question, how often do people find themselves not staying at shelters on average a week. My plan is to use leanto's as a primary shelter, im thinking mabey twice a week? just some feedback on that would be great. I found a bivy/tent thing that might be good for the job http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442590625&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=282574488340425Folks usually either prefer shelters and stay in them most of the time or prefer their tents and stay in them most of the time.
The bivy/tent you have there looks like a coffin. The seehouse sl1 is only a few oz more and you have a full blown double wall tent that you can move around in.
another question, how often do people find themselves not staying at shelters on average a week. My plan is to use leanto's as a primary shelter, im thinking mabey twice a week? just some feedback on that would be great. I found a bivy/tent thing that might be good for the job http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442590625&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=282574488340425
The bivy you link to is pretty expensive. Personally I would go with a light tarp and one of these:
http://www.backcountrygear.com/catalog/bivydetail.cfm/EQ3000
Much lighter and cheaper than what you linked to. It doesn't cover the face, but that is what your tarp is for. I think you would be much more comfortable camping with this and a tarp.
If you plan to use shelters primarily, I would guess that you would only sleep out once a week at most. It's generally pretty easy to get to a shelter in time. Is much more difficult early on if you start your hike during March or April. Will also get more challenging to find shelter space during inclement weather - just when you want it most.
I would not be comfortable depending on a bivy as my only shelter for all the reasons already given - no room, condensation. Even in the summer, 8, 10, 12 hours is a long time to stay in a nylon bag. Also, if you choose to stay somewhere between shelters, where will you cook? No cover.
A bivy can be useful for helping to keep your expensive bag clean in dirty shelter, adding warmth on windy nights (even in a shelter), or as a second layer of protection when using a light tarp as a primary shelter. That is how I would plan on using it, in addition to a tarp.
You wanted opinions, that's mine. Obviously, others will have other experiences and thoughts.
If you're set on going the bivy, or bivy- type tent route, I would make sure I had the resources to add a tarp if you decide you don't like the experience.
Whatever you decide - stay safe and have a blast.
I left early (Feb 16) and came to 1 shelter where there wasn't room. That definitely won't be the case if you go at the usual times.
stranger
12-01-2008, 22:06
If you don't already hate shelters a long distance hike along the AT will certainly deter most hikers from staying in them - regardless of space. The most annoying thing I found on my hike this year was that you have to stay in shelters in the Smokies and even at Partnership, which is a beautiful shelter, I wasn't happy about using it but they ask you not to tent there for some reason.
A bivy sack would be very limiting in my opinion for shelter and it would require that you still use the shelters to cook, store your pack, etc... When it's raining - it wouldn't give you much freedom. And there is little merit in discussing the benefits of any form of shelter when it's not raining!
I've got a SL1, SD Lightyear, SMD Lunar Solo and SMD Lunar Duo and the tent I grab every time is the Lunar Duo.
Man, that thing is a palace for 1 person - major room *plus* 2 big vestibules. At 3 lbs it's more or less the same weight as a 1 person SL1 or the other popular 1 man tents but with more than 2x the room. I'm 6'3" and I can sit up, move around, change clothes, cook, repack my pack and do everything I need to do without crashing into the tent walls and roof. It's also much better for my mental health to have plenty of room when I'm riding out a storm and this fills the bill nicely.
It's probably my favorite piece of gear.
I was just curious on what people think about mostly depending on shelters but having a bivy sack for emergencies and when the shelter is just to full. Another thing about Bivy sacks is the condensation, how will that work with a down bag? Was thinking about going with a 20 degree systhetic will that be enough? get a liner mabey? or can the bivy provide that extra warmth on the cold nights in the begining?
would just like to hear some positives/negatives of the bivy/shelter idea and what to do for a sleeping bag. Another thing I'd like to hear about is strait up hiking boots vs a trail hiking shoe saftey? more weight? if you all would spill your knowlege onto me it would be appreciated thanks happy turkey day.
Lots of good advice and considerations given already.
I'll assume we R only talking about hiking the AT? Where, what direction, and when R U starting on the AT? Do U have any experience in AT shelters or with bivies? How flexible/adaptable would U say U R when hiking?
Bear with me. I promise I will not ask for any blood or DNA.
Do U have or had any medical or physical conditions such as: back problems, shin splints, foot, knee, ankle, or hip problems, existing or known fractures, ligament or muscle problems? How would U generally describe your level of health? How much wt. R U planning on carrying(estimate as accurately U can)? About how many miles R U planning on hiking per day(be real, this isn't a pissing contest)? U asked to spill knowledge onto U. If U can answer these questions I'd be able to more accurately spill a tidal wave of knowledge, or at least my opinion, your way.
Hey Chris,
The nemo is a good idea from a factory standpoint,
PRO's
Lightweight
No Need for Trekking Poles
Fully encompased bivy
CON's
Expensive
NOT WATERPROOF - I had a customer bring one back the other week and play hell with me.
Need to have NEMO's Airpump - not very strong
Overall nemo is a good company, but because some of their products are so new on the market, they are still learning which fabrics to use and what customers want.
I would hold off and look into the MLD or Bozeman Mountain Works Bivys
Regards
Hey Chris,
The nemo is a good idea from a factory standpoint,
PRO's
Lightweight
No Need for Trekking Poles
Fully encompased bivy
CON's
Expensive
NOT WATERPROOF - I had a customer bring one back the other week and play hell with me.
Need to have NEMO's Airpump - not very strong
Overall nemo is a good company, but because some of their products are so new on the market, they are still learning which fabrics to use and what customers want.
I would hold off and look into the MLD or Bozeman Mountain Works Bivys
Regards
My bivy bag is very heavy, but I've never used it as a coffin. I sleep in the open air with it, and put a very small poncho/tarp over it for heavy rain. I don't go up to 5000 feet in the open where I hike though. I'm usually under a big spruce tree. I've sat up reading in 20F though, with a sweater hatt and mitts on and my arms out. I'll have to wait and see how it works out for 0F and -20F. I am fairly confident I can get out of the wind and blowing snow where I travel though, so I'm not so worried about that. Still, it's the really cold air that's the thing. Not so bad when your moving or in the sack sleeping at night with a wool scarf over top, but for sitting up reading or trying to get your stuff organized or dried out I'm hoping to get a hobostove working well enough to make up the difference. I'm also thinking about changing my bivy bag so it opens up into a raincape I can wear on my back with poking around the hobo stove. Then I might still need a tarp, but it can be just a tarp, and the raincape/bivy can be a better wind and rain cape for winter, less open on the sides maybe. I might carry a wool blanket also, maybe use it inside the sleeping bag and under the raincape when its really cold, and just on top of my blue foam pad otherwise.
another question, how often do people find themselves not staying at shelters on average a week. My plan is to use leanto's as a primary shelter, im thinking mabey twice a week? just some feedback on that would be great. I found a bivy/tent thing that might be good for the job http://www.ems.com/catalog/product_detail_square.jsp?PRODUCT%3C%3Eprd_id=8455 24442590625&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=282574488340425
In the beginning of the trail I used shelters a fair amount. By PA though, I was using them less and less, untill by CT I was tenting even if there was room in the shelter. The main reasons for this were space, privacy, comfort (the ground is WAY softer than a shelter floor), and bugs. I only really started using shelters again in NH or Maine because the bugs were much fewer by then, and even then, only when it was raining and I was feeling too lazy to set up a tent and no one else was around.
No Belay
12-04-2008, 18:11
My bivy bag is very heavy, but I've never used it as a coffin. I sleep in the open air with it, and put a very small poncho/tarp over it for heavy rain. I don't go up to 5000 feet in the open where I hike though. I'm usually under a big spruce tree. I've sat up reading in 20F though, with a sweater hatt and mitts on and my arms out. I'll have to wait and see how it works out for 0F and -20F. I am fairly confident I can get out of the wind and blowing snow where I travel though, so I'm not so worried about that. Still, it's the really cold air that's the thing. Not so bad when your moving or in the sack sleeping at night with a wool scarf over top, but for sitting up reading or trying to get your stuff organized or dried out I'm hoping to get a hobostove working well enough to make up the difference. I'm also thinking about changing my bivy bag so it opens up into a raincape I can wear on my back with poking around the hobo stove. Then I might still need a tarp, but it can be just a tarp, and the raincape/bivy can be a better wind and rain cape for winter, less open on the sides maybe. I might carry a wool blanket also, maybe use it inside the sleeping bag and under the raincape when its really cold, and just on top of my blue foam pad otherwise.
JAK, My only question would be WHY? Why do all of this to justify using a bivy when for the same weight and a whole lot less hassle, you can be in a semi confortable tent instead of a goretex ice cream sandwich. I'm confident I can rig my Rainbow and be inside long before you can finish setting up your leanto configuration. You're talking about the addition of extra blankets, ect just so you can make a bad idea work. I used a bivy on several long hikes and other than the temperature increase it gave to my bag, I found no advantage to it. Since the Rainbow can be set free standing, it can be used almost any where you can comforatbly plop a bivy.
Folks usually either prefer shelters and stay in them most of the time or prefer their tents and stay in them most of the time.
Really? I know that a lot of WBers profess to hate shelters, I'm not arguing that point. But is really an either-or proposition? Speaking for myself -- I use shelters as I please, and tent as I please, but the decision (to stay in a shelter or in my tent) isn't made until I get there... or get tired of walking for the day.
Really? I know that a lot of WBers profess to hate shelters, I'm not arguing that point. But is really an either-or proposition? Speaking for myself -- I use shelters as I please, and tent as I please, but the decision (to stay in a shelter or in my tent) isn't made until I get there... or get tired of walking for the day.Whenever I have been out there with the thru hikers I notice that the same folks stay in the shelters at night and the same folks pitch there tent every night. Every now and then depending on conditions someone will be different. Rain drives tenters to shelters and bugs drive shelter folks to tent, but in optimal conditions most folks have a preference.
My bivy bag is very heavy, but I've never used it as a coffin. I sleep in the open air with it, and put a very small poncho/tarp over it for heavy rain. I don't go up to 5000 feet in the open where I hike though. I'm usually under a big spruce tree. I've sat up reading in 20F though, with a sweater hatt and mitts on and my arms out. I'll have to wait and see how it works out for 0F and -20F. I am fairly confident I can get out of the wind and blowing snow where I travel though, so I'm not so worried about that. Still, it's the really cold air that's the thing. Not so bad when your moving or in the sack sleeping at night with a wool scarf over top, but for sitting up reading or trying to get your stuff organized or dried out I'm hoping to get a hobostove working well enough to make up the difference. I'm also thinking about changing my bivy bag so it opens up into a raincape I can wear on my back with poking around the hobo stove. Then I might still need a tarp, but it can be just a tarp, and the raincape/bivy can be a better wind and rain cape for winter, less open on the sides maybe. I might carry a wool blanket also, maybe use it inside the sleeping bag and under the raincape when its really cold, and just on top of my blue foam pad otherwise.
JAK, My only question would be WHY? Why do all of this to justify using a bivy when for the same weight and a whole lot less hassle, you can be in a semi confortable tent instead of a goretex ice cream sandwich. I'm confident I can rig my Rainbow and be inside long before you can finish setting up your leanto configuration. You're talking about the addition of extra blankets, ect just so you can make a bad idea work. I used a bivy on several long hikes and other than the temperature increase it gave to my bag, I found no advantage to it. Since the Rainbow can be set free standing, it can be used almost any where you can comforatbly plop a bivy.That's a fair question. I think its just because it feels more like sleeping like a deer, or a moose or something. Seriously. I like finding that ideal spot under a big Spruce tree. Yeah I don't always find it, but I like being able to crash anywhere. I don't think its a real timesaver, or a weightsaver. In fact I rather enjoy pitching the poncho tarp over it even when I don't need to, unless the natural shelter is already just so perfect I don't want to add or take anything away from it. I'm not totally sold on the 2 pound CF military gortex bivy sac either, but it fits over the 72"x28" bluie foam pad just right, and its waterproof enough that my 4'x8' poncho tarp really only needs to 'suggest' rain shelter. I might try a lighter bivy someday, but I also think I might cut this one up first and make a raincape/bivy out of it first. If that works I'll see if I can make the same thing out of something might. I got it at Army Surplus in town for $60 or something like that, and they have more. If I do get the raincape/bivy thing working I think I might then try other tarps also.
I've got a photo from last winter kicking around someplace. It was a really pleasant night, but I admit its not that often that you find such a perfect spot. I didn't bother with the tarp that night of course as it wasn't raining. It was snowing but as you can see from the ground there wasn't much falling under that tree. It was a couple of feet deep in the surrounding woods.
Here it is from the thread on HikingHQ from last January...
http://hikinghq.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2560&highlight=winter
the pictures...
My feet and my hatchet and the gracious Spruce tree I underslept:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...land2008_1.jpg
The branches formed a wigwam on the south side,
not really needed as it was only -2C with a very light snowfall,
2' of snow on ground but only an inch under the tree which I swept away:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...land2008_2.jpg
I used a 2oz Ziploc box for my Miscellaneous Stuff,
it fits perfectly inside my JAM2 backpack, near the top:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...land2008_3.jpg
Myself in Gortex Bivy reading "Too Kill a Mockingbird",
including the chapter on Snow in Maycomb Alabama.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...land2008_4.jpg
My wool mitts and stuff drying, best mitts I ever owned,
the mitts are knit from Briggs & Little wool which is excellent,
rugged and warm and dry very easily while wearing near the fire,
or just by wearing:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...land2008_5.jpg
My bivouac next morning from one angle showing my stuff.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...land2008_6.jpg
My bivouac next morning from angle showing 'wigwam'.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...land2008_7.jpg
On our way to Tweedle Dee Tweedle Dum Falls July 2007:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...Path2007_1.jpg
Those pics don't work from here but they do from HikingHQ for some reason.
Sorry about that.
My feet and my hatchet and the gracious Spruce tree I underslept:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterCamping/LongIsland2008_1.jpg
The branches formed a wigwam on the south side,
not really needed as it was only -2C with a very light snowfall,
2' of snow on ground but only an inch under the tree which I swept away:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterCamping/LongIsland2008_2.jpg
I used a 2oz Ziploc box for my Miscellaneous Stuff,
it fits perfectly inside my JAM2 backpack, near the top:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterCamping/LongIsland2008_3.jpg
Myself in Gortex Bivy reading "Too Kill a Mockingbird",
including the chapter on Snow in Maycomb Alabama.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterCamping/LongIsland2008_4.jpg
My wool mitts and stuff drying, best mitts I ever owned,
the mitts are knit from Briggs & Little wool which is excellent,
rugged and warm and dry very easily while wearing near the fire,
or just by wearing:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterCamping/LongIsland2008_5.jpg
My bivouac next morning from one angle showing my stuff.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterCamping/LongIsland2008_6.jpg
My bivouac next morning from angle showing 'wigwam'.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterCamping/LongIsland2008_7.jpg
On our way to Tweedle Dee Tweedle Dum Falls July 2007:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterCamping/FootPath2007_1.jpg
Just for the record that was a sweet night, no colder than 25F, and not at all wet, no breeze in where I was, and no big clumps of snow falling down on me. lol. I went for a morning walk down to the river at 5am a few weeks later, just to try out clothing. That would have been a different story. Not much more breeze but a heck of a lot colder, like -25F or something. I've done that in the backyard but not deep in the woods yet, after hiking all day and so forth. That's going to take a little more figuring out. I don't want to rush out and by a giant bag but I don't want to die stupid either, or both. lol
Here is the pics and writeup from that early morning hiking...
-23C, what is that? That's only -10F. Man -25F must be really freaking cold.
I just got back from an early morning jaunt. Headed out across the ice. -21C at 5am. -23C by the time I got back. I got the bick lighter working but the hobbo stove I put together at the last minute sucked. So no oats for this lad. I wasn't out long enough to get hungry I just wanted to test things out.
Freakin Coyotes. When I got over to goat island (only about a mile from me house) I hiked up to the top of it, a small round island with mostly cedar and rock. Just as I was settling down to make a fire I heard these freakin coyotes. Not sure how many. We have big ones here. So I sauntered back down to the ice, with a big stick silly me, but they were gone by the time I got there. I found at least three tracks. Not sure where they were coming from or where they were going but I figure they must have picked up my scent and thats what all the noise was about. I'm thinking they are coming across the ice in search of food and the cold might be making them bold. I don't know dick about our coyotes. Lots of deer in the city. It would be nice to get a photo of our coyotes on the ice.
So after a failed attempt at breakfast I headed home but was about 15 minutes late so walked to work and here I am. I noticed a lot of tracks on the walk to work also but those could be dogs. So I need to work on my hobbo skills, but at least I was very happy with my clothing.
I am the worst photographer in the world.
My sad excuse for a hobbo stove is in the bottom pic, just behind my pointy stick:
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterShacks.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p243/JAK_45/WinterMorning.jpg
Tipi Walter
12-04-2008, 20:51
Great fotogs, JAK! As you say, there's nothing quite like throwing down a bedroll and spending the night w/o the muss and fuss of setting up camp. Your pics reminded me of the hundreds of nights I cowboy-camped when I just didn't feel like setting up the tent. Whether stealth camping or not, I used the technique in cemetaries, next to churches, behind motels, on friend's decks and in their backyards and front porches, under a clump of rhododendron impossible for a tent, etc etc.
Even with a bivy sac I still got wet, and during blizzards everything was covered in snow except for my mouth. I spent a winter using a bivy and woke up many early mornings covered in a foot of snow. I just wish I carried a camera back then.
What's remarkable is this near guarantee: No matter how clear and star-studded the night sky is before you go to sleep, by 3am a fierce rainstorm will hit and there'll be some mad scrambling to either move to a tentsite or set up a tarp. And when the temps go below zero to 10 below, having a second sleeping bag atop the first is mighty helpful when bivy sac-ing. Cuts the wind, keeps you warmer, holds the snow. Bulk means warmth when bedroll camping, also means weight.
That sounds really great TW. Cemetaries eh. lol.
Your foot of snow memories remind me of a very good account I read in Napoleon Comeau's book "Life and Sport on the North Shore etc.
http://www.archive.org/details/lifesportonnorth00comerich
There is the night he is travelling cross country with an native friend and after they set up winter camp the old fashioned way, with hudson bay blankets and canvas and fir boughs and a fire, they discover they both forgot matches. These guys were both experts and yeah even they forget matches. This was like 120 years ago. So they basically slept in the snow with fir boughs under and over and hudson bay blankets under and over and they woke woke up pretty wet and had to get going right awat but they gave a pretty good account of how they did it. Interestingly they had lots of goose down back then as they describe having them in houses, but they always used either wool blankets or blankets woven out of 100 rabbit skins. I think down sleeping bags were really only made practical for travel on foot with the advent of nylon. My father had a canvas and wool lined down bag for 40 below but I don't think it was something a person would carry on foot.
Anyhow, I'll remember what you said about bulk. My sleeping bag is on the light side so I've always been careful to carry extra clothes. If I ever get a better down bag I will keep the extra clothes until I figure things out.
p.s. I see you can actually read the whole book in the link above.
Click on Flip Book Beta, or maybe the pdf.
I'll try and find the bit about sleeping in the snow. I think its in the chapters on trapping.
Incidentally it will be the 100th anniversary of this book next year.
... here it is. Sleeping in the Snow on page 230...
Now I've got to see if I can cut and paste it or link to it...
Here it is from the text version.
His 'partner in crime' on that trip wasn't native by the way, but was his brother. My apologies. lol
Sleeping in the Snow
One winter I had my
permanent camp on the border of Lake She-
tagomau, the head waters of the east branch
of the Manicouagan River. About the middle
of February my brother and myself decided to
go on an exploring trip of about two days'
walking, further north, on the lookout for
suitable marten ground. As we were not out
for meat we arranged to go as light as possible,
so as to cover more ground. We each carried
one axe, a quart tin kettle, and sufficient grub for
four days, wrapping this last in our shelter tent,
a piece of cotton ten feet long, by six wide
which made our pack and which we carried turn
about. We made an early start, as we travelled
over six miles on the lake and then took to the
woods, and had a long day's tramp. About four
o'clock we halted to camp for the night. There
was the same old job of clearing the snow, cutting
wood and branches and setting up the shelter tent
in a half circle. When all this was done, my
brother went for water to a small lake nearby. I
got ready to light the fire, when to our discour-
agement we found we had no matches. I usually
carried these in my pockets in a small vial, well
corked, and thus absolutely waterproof. In some
way, probably while chopping or collecting the
wood, I had lost them. Neither of us smoked,
consequently we had no loose matches, although
we fumbled all through our pockets just the same.
Night had now set in and it was well nigh impos-
sible to travel back, besides which we were very
tired, so I proposed that we should have
something to eat and then try and get a little rest
by lying down in the snow. If we found it too
cold we were to get up and walk back the best way
we could to our camp, which we estimated to be
about twenty miles away. We ate some dried
smoked beaver and frozen galettes camp made
bread for our supper, and then set to work pre-
paring our bed. I tramped down a trough in the
snow six feet long by about three wide. On the
bottom of this we laid a lot of the fine branches
we had cut for our camp. Over this we laid half
of the shelter tent, then one of our coats, removing
our shoes and putting them also under us. Then
we both got into the trench, bringing the
other half of the cotton over us and piling on
snow, up to our waist, using our second coat as
an additional covering over our body and shoul-
ders. With a branch in one hand I then swept
over us as much snow as I could and covered our
heads with the cotton, shaking some of the snow
over. For a little while it was rather cold, but
it soon got more comfortable and we went asleep
and to our surprise only woke up at daylight.
On the inside surface the snow had melted and
glazed, retaining the heat, but we felt damp
and chilly on getting out, and had to hurry up
and walk to warm ourselves. We returned to
our camp, and felt no ill effects from our night in
the snow. After that night each of us carried
a vial of matches. I slept in the snow again
after that, but I was provided with a good hare
skin blanket and coton wrapper, and we followed
the same plan occasionally to save the time and
work of making a camp when after caribou or on
a long tramp.
I hope everyone enjoys this story and other stories from this great book. I have my fathers copy and have learned alot from it, and have really enjoyed reading it at home on many nights, dreaming of those great northern woods of the later 1800s.
No Belay
12-04-2008, 23:03
Great photos JAK. I had to get up and put on another pair of socks after looking at them. Also enjoyed the story. I've been dancing for snow for weeks but haven't conjoured up anything but a dusting as of yet. I've got 2 OR bivys I'm going to put in the gear for sell thread after Christmas. Hope they find their wayto someone like you who will appreciate them.
Savor Happy!
TaTonka
I like their bivies. The microlight and bug bivy would both give me some considerable weight saving. Mine weighs 32 oz. I've thought of cutting it in half and taping it to my blue foam pad, but that might end up a bit sketchy. Someday I'll tyr that though. The other thing I've thought about if I did that was to use the blue foam pad and bivy tarp as my pack. Just roll everything up in it, and then something at the bottom and a belt, and something at the top and some straps. Maybe I'll butcher my new Jam2 pack. It only weighs 20oz, so what's left of it would still be 10oz maybe. In theory it could be more expandable and contractable that way though. I was thinking about one of these as a packframe also. 5300 years old. Now that would be getting primitive...
http://www.primitiveways.com/pack_frame.html
http://www.primitiveways.com/Iceman.html
Gray Blazer
12-04-2008, 23:25
I've got a SL1, SD Lightyear, SMD Lunar Solo and SMD Lunar Duo and the tent I grab every time is the Lunar Duo.
Man, that thing is a palace for 1 person - major room *plus* 2 big vestibules. At 3 lbs it's more or less the same weight as a 1 person SL1 or the other popular 1 man tents but with more than 2x the room. I'm 6'3" and I can sit up, move around, change clothes, cook, repack my pack and do everything I need to do without crashing into the tent walls and roof. It's also much better for my mental health to have plenty of room when I'm riding out a storm and this fills the bill nicely.
It's probably my favorite piece of gear.
Does it use hiking poles or it's own tent poles? Does 3 lbs include stakes? It sounds like what I'm looking for.
Does it use hiking poles or it's own tent poles? Does 3 lbs include stakes? It sounds like what I'm looking for.
Gray,i use the cf poles since i dont use hiking ploes.Packed with,poles, stakes, mine comes in at 2.8 lb.
Next hookup you can use it,or i can mail it to you to try out.Great tent.
Plodderman
12-16-2008, 10:43
It is always good to have a second option as at times shelters are full or the company might not be what you desire. I bring along a tent and in some cases a tarp that doubles as a poncho.
Tarps or poncho-tarps are a good option if you are trying to save weight. If I wasn't a hammocker, I might look into something light and extremely easy to set up (minimum of stakes). Pyramids set up with four stakes and some hoop tents only need two (though most use three or four).
Mountain Laurel Designs has a nice two person pyramid which recently appeared on their website, and Integral Designs has a single hoop, two stake shelter for two.
Six Moon design has the Gatewood Cape and a similar shelter with a mesh skirt which I might look at if I were into ground sleeping.